Miyamoto says that casual gamers are "pathetic"

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#101 Edited by PimpHand_Gamer (456 posts) -

@Heirren said:

@pimphand_gamer said:

He's obviously butthurt because if he truly meant that then he would have known that long before the WiiU came out.

@frankopan said:

Can someone give us the definition of a "casual gamer"? Is it dependent on time spent gaming? The genres someone like? Please enlighten me because just recently I classified myself as such due to the fact that I have a few franchises that I'm more or less loyal to. I game on a PC which I spent some pretty coin on. I recently bought my first console in 17 years, the 3ds xl and am enjoying Ocarina of time. However, I game from hour and a half to 3 hours a day. Hardcore casual?

Casually game...you do know what casual is right? Relaxed, unconcerned, irregular. If you're a casual gamer, you don't take it seriously, you don't play regularly and you don't play any game that requires any complexity,persistence or time consumption. Casual games can be something like Chess or Angry Birds or it can also even be Unreal Tournament if you are just occasionally dropping in for a quick match and not taking it seriously. The actual type of game itself isn't really what makes you one or the other, it's how you take it. I suppose if you play Dark Souls irregularly and don't really try nor care if you beat it or achieve more than last time then you're certainly a casual gamer but often such gamers don't attempt to play these types of games if there is no quick or easy reward. They may also rather watch someone else play games than play it themselves. Interest in games but with no ambition or desire.

How to know if you're a hard core gamer: If you are devoted to any particular game at any point in time. If you can enjoy most any type of game regardless of platform, simplicity or complexity. You can enjoy Pac Man and yet you try to get a high score and you can enjoy BF or Skyrim and take it seriously enough to achieve and put some time and effort into the games you play. How often you play them is irrelevant so long as it's a regular schedule of some sort. Could be monthly, weekly or daily...and if you really have no life then it's hourly.

How to know if you're an elitist or hardware enthusiast: If you only care about specific games for a specific platform. You easily dismiss any game that doesn't fit into you're ideal perceptions of how it should look, run or control. These types often become graphic whores, are very opinionated within strict confines and defensive. They may also play irregularly, complain a lot sometimes with fits of rage and consistent with pointing out flaws in games. By definition they are not much of a gamer per say, rather they are dreamers always raging about how any particular game isn't real enough. Usually purchases bleeding edge hardware, likes to benchmark a lot, brag, tweak settings...etc. Speaks more often of hardware than games and/or enjoys any excuse for entitlement or superiority of having the "best" version of any particular game. These types can be PC, console or just old school players that miss the old days.

Not sure I agree. Almost all fps and tps games are casual in solo mode. Any multiplayer game that allows for skill improvement can allow for a "hardcore attitude.

Nintendo Land can be played casually, but the high score nature of the game potentially makes it more hardcore than most of these "mature" movie games.

We're kinda talking about 2 different things really. I'm talking about how a person approaches their games. You're talking about how a game approaches the gameplay. The latter doesn't guarantee to attract every person of either type. A casual gamer could still pick up any MP game but if their approach is just to kill some time because they are waiting on their laundry to dry instead of actually putting some effort into it, then that person isn't really hardcore at all if that is how they enjoy the games they play. That doesn't mean they may not get addicted to BF 4 for a few months and play like crazy...but if they are not doing that with any consistency with most games then they are still casual.

Likewise, a hardcore gamer can enjoy solo mod or even Nintendo land. Either type might choose any kind of game, it's how they approach it is what makes them a casual or hardcore gamer.

#102 Posted by jsmoke03 (12986 posts) -

funny coming from him

#103 Posted by Heirren (17769 posts) -

@pimphand_gamer said:

@Heirren said:

@pimphand_gamer said:

He's obviously butthurt because if he truly meant that then he would have known that long before the WiiU came out.

@frankopan said:

Can someone give us the definition of a "casual gamer"? Is it dependent on time spent gaming? The genres someone like? Please enlighten me because just recently I classified myself as such due to the fact that I have a few franchises that I'm more or less loyal to. I game on a PC which I spent some pretty coin on. I recently bought my first console in 17 years, the 3ds xl and am enjoying Ocarina of time. However, I game from hour and a half to 3 hours a day. Hardcore casual?

Casually game...you do know what casual is right? Relaxed, unconcerned, irregular. If you're a casual gamer, you don't take it seriously, you don't play regularly and you don't play any game that requires any complexity,persistence or time consumption. Casual games can be something like Chess or Angry Birds or it can also even be Unreal Tournament if you are just occasionally dropping in for a quick match and not taking it seriously. The actual type of game itself isn't really what makes you one or the other, it's how you take it. I suppose if you play Dark Souls irregularly and don't really try nor care if you beat it or achieve more than last time then you're certainly a casual gamer but often such gamers don't attempt to play these types of games if there is no quick or easy reward. They may also rather watch someone else play games than play it themselves. Interest in games but with no ambition or desire.

How to know if you're a hard core gamer: If you are devoted to any particular game at any point in time. If you can enjoy most any type of game regardless of platform, simplicity or complexity. You can enjoy Pac Man and yet you try to get a high score and you can enjoy BF or Skyrim and take it seriously enough to achieve and put some time and effort into the games you play. How often you play them is irrelevant so long as it's a regular schedule of some sort. Could be monthly, weekly or daily...and if you really have no life then it's hourly.

How to know if you're an elitist or hardware enthusiast: If you only care about specific games for a specific platform. You easily dismiss any game that doesn't fit into you're ideal perceptions of how it should look, run or control. These types often become graphic whores, are very opinionated within strict confines and defensive. They may also play irregularly, complain a lot sometimes with fits of rage and consistent with pointing out flaws in games. By definition they are not much of a gamer per say, rather they are dreamers always raging about how any particular game isn't real enough. Usually purchases bleeding edge hardware, likes to benchmark a lot, brag, tweak settings...etc. Speaks more often of hardware than games and/or enjoys any excuse for entitlement or superiority of having the "best" version of any particular game. These types can be PC, console or just old school players that miss the old days.

Not sure I agree. Almost all fps and tps games are casual in solo mode. Any multiplayer game that allows for skill improvement can allow for a "hardcore attitude.

Nintendo Land can be played casually, but the high score nature of the game potentially makes it more hardcore than most of these "mature" movie games.

We're kinda talking about 2 different things really. I'm talking about how a person approaches their games. You're talking about how a game approaches the gameplay. The latter doesn't guarantee to attract every person of either type. A casual gamer could still pick up any MP game but if their approach is just to kill some time because they are waiting on their laundry to dry instead of actually putting some effort into it, then that person isn't really hardcore at all if that is how they enjoy the games they play. That doesn't mean they may not get addicted to BF 4 for a few months and play like crazy...but if they are not doing that with any consistency with most games then they are still casual.

Likewise, a hardcore gamer can enjoy solo mod or even Nintendo land. Either type might choose any kind of game, it's how they approach it is what makes them a casual or hardcore gamer.

I must have misinterpreted what you had said somehow because I think we are in agreement.

Perhaps I just think they're no more games which are "hardcore" in the sense of when the phrase was actually coined.

#104 Posted by Cloud_imperium (4332 posts) -

He is right . Games are not movies . If someone is too lazy to learn gameplay mechanics then he should watch a movie instead of wishing for it to be dumbed down .

#105 Edited by ConanTheStoner (5976 posts) -

@jsmoke03 said:

funny coming from him

Eh, not really though. Most of Nintendos games, especially his brain children, are very much geared towards the core gaming audience... mind you, I mean core gamer as in people who play a lot of games and are very much invested in the hobby.

I'm not talking about the guns, boobs, blood, gritty, cinematic, omg so hardcore audience, but I guess in that sense it might be funny.

#106 Posted by charizard1605 (58931 posts) -

About goddamn time they decide to move away from casual gaming. it seems like Nintendo, after being burned with the Wii U, realizes that casual gamers cannot be relied upon, and catering to the core base is the best idea.

#107 Posted by hiphops_savior (7973 posts) -

@charizard1605: It wasn't a bad idea, however. Nintendo's market share is shrinking since the n64. The Gamecube saw them finishing third behind the Xbox and Halo. Nintendo had to do something different.

The problem was, a lot of the new audience refused to fully commit to the joys of gaming. Part of it has to do with today's culture of instant gratification, which is also blatant in most AAA titles today. Nintendo now has the task to raise a whole new generation of gamers, to provide a whole new audience the magical experience of a challenging experience for everyone.

#108 Posted by zeeshanhaider (2675 posts) -

@speedfreak48t5p said:

@zeeshanhaider said:

Miyamoto is right. Cows aren't gamers with their non games.

Who said anything about cows?

@Gue1 said:

"[These are] the sort of people who, for example, might want to watch a movie.

There's one company who proudly presents its games summer movie blockbusters. Remember the Uncharted 2 commercial? Yup, cows, sure love movies rather than games.

#109 Posted by MirkoS77 (7786 posts) -

I don't think Nintendo could anymore confuse people if they tried. Why don't they let their marketing do this for them? All they do with their asinine proclamations is give conflicting signals all over the place.

Nintendo, please, SHUT YOUR MOUTHS! You're doing yourselves no favors.

#110 Posted by Shmiity (5175 posts) -

Finally some passion out of this fucking guy. It's about time Nintendo started throwing some punches.

#111 Posted by Shmiity (5175 posts) -

@MirkoS77: I'm honestly really happy he finally opened his mouth and told the truth. Rather than all this Nintendo "we love everything and we are cute all the time" company. I want to see some confidence. Have Reggie talk shit on twitter about the xbox, or have Iwata piss on a PS Vita. I hope this is a sign of Nintendo coming off the bench.

#112 Posted by PAL360 (27012 posts) -

That's what system wars have been telling me for the last 7 years. Good to know, though, casuals have smart phones to play their games.

#113 Edited by AzatiS (7719 posts) -

@Gue1: He is dissing the people that made Wii a success and to whom Wii U aimed for ? Because it didnt work twice ... now its pathetic ...

It it had worked somehow with wii U , similar to wii , i bet he wouldnt say such things .... Another butthurt sheep imho ... As a semi-hardcore/hardcore gamer i agree with what he is saying but since its coming from Nintendo that was aiming for casuals once again after Wiis success. ... it is a butthurt statement imho

#114 Posted by MirkoS77 (7786 posts) -

@Shmiity said:

@MirkoS77: I'm honestly really happy he finally opened his mouth and told the truth. Rather than all this Nintendo "we love everything and we are cute all the time" company. I want to see some confidence. Have Reggie talk shit on twitter about the xbox, or have Iwata piss on a PS Vita. I hope this is a sign of Nintendo coming off the bench.

Yea except I don't know what to trust anymore. Partly because all of this is translated from Japanese which can be iffy at times, and partly because I think Nintendo's still confused themselves as to what they want.

#115 Posted by m3dude1 (1484 posts) -

LOOOOOL @ nintendo thinking their games are advanced. every since gamecube their games have become more and more skillless and simplified. thats whats pathetic

#116 Posted by MirkoS77 (7786 posts) -

@speak_low said:

Hopefully he understands that you also can't go to the other extreme and now think that only extremely hardcore, punishing titles for 25-35 year old gamers who grew up on Atari should be the only ones to cater to (they're an important segment but Nintendo needs to aim for more than that group). A successful console should have better balance and also cater to mainstream gamers too.

If his definition and my definition of "Casuals" are the same, then we agree. That's the group that are so casual, they probably can't name more than 2-3 developers, don't follow gaming news at all, don't finish any SP campaigns or even know what "SP campaign" means, and actually buy the least software over the course of a generation. I'm thinking of the Wii casuals who bought Wii Fit and all of that cheap shovelware and, right now, have zero gaming consoles plugged into a wall socket at home. That's CASUAL to the max. If Miyamoto wants to completely drop that crowd, then I agree. It doesn't seem worth it to spend so much money and attention on this group who have clearly went on to Apple and Android land are are happily situated there. If you try to make games that they may like, they'll just say "we have mobile for that, lol. What are you doing, Nintendo?" That's why I don't think they are going to come back to home consoles when the always-improving mobile world seems to not only cover their current needs but their future ones as well. These casuals are not even bothering with ZombiU, Wii Fit U, Pikmin 3 and all of those Wii U titles (even the LEGO Wii U games aren't selling that well), so I don't see them returning for the Nintendo successor either.

And my definition of "mainstream" gamers, which I think Nintendo needs to also think about, are those who are less hardcore, and form that large mixed group of more experienced casuals + core players, and those who just game on weekends but still buy quite a few games (and maybe even comprise most of the sales in the end with mega-popular franchises like CODs, Maddens, ACs, GTA, etc). Going for the hardcore/core/mainstreamers seems to be the better option imo (with some very light and experimental casual games here and there but nothing more than that).

It's not just regaining lost sales and the drifting audience from the Wii U that Nintendo needs to think about, but also competing against Sony/MS for a similar group of gamers. This may be a tougher fight for Nintendo and probably why they went casual in the first place. But those seem to be your options now, Nintendo. Which is why people have been so critical and telling you to get a move on things such a long time ago - so the fight wouldn't be so hard and the opponents so formidable as they are now.

......and people always love to say that Nintendo always looks to the long-term. Seem like the draw of the Wii's buck was a very short-term cash-hog draw that's left them in a fairly precarious (and unenviable) position.

#117 Posted by Bigboi500 (30328 posts) -

Wow, so many dude bros and movie game console fans who are in total denial about what is and what isn't hardcore.

#118 Posted by KillzoneSnake (1756 posts) -

I agree and casual gaming is growing, pretty soon gaming dead. The new generation of kids can keep playing mindless COD in the year 2030.

#119 Posted by superbuuman (2992 posts) -
@MirkoS77 said:

I don't think Nintendo could anymore confuse people if they tried. Why don't they let their marketing do this for them? All they do with their asinine proclamations is give conflicting signals all over the place.

Nintendo, please, SHUT YOUR MOUTHS! You're doing yourselves no favors.

Well I think they have concentrate too much on casuals/family friendly image & abandoned their core supporters. This hopefully mean they will make their games more challenging rather than design around casuals. Guess we will have to wait & see what their next games will be like..& hopefully this is not just talks. This coming from him is interesting, considering his position. :P


#120 Edited by edwardecl (2239 posts) -

I find it highly amusing both Nintendo and Microsoft are abandoning their casual gamers or at least try to promote that view. With Phil Spencer saying he does not like dudebro games (casual), and now the Nintendo dude saying casual gamers are pathetic.

Are they trying to copy Sony with their for the gamers slogan? I think they are missing the meaning of it, a gamer is everyone casual or otherwise. I think both companies are making a mistake here there is a place for casual games (maybe not for me), but why exclude or dismiss stuff?

To me it sounds like they are throwing all the toys out of their pram, nobody wants gimmick controllers anymore well, well screw you guys then.

#121 Edited by nintendoboy16 (27250 posts) -

Elsewhere, Sean Malstrom is facepalming... hard.

#122 Posted by clone01 (24943 posts) -

@speedfreak48t5p said:

Casual gamers like uninspiredcup are truly pathetic.

Yep, he is truly pathetic.

#123 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72994 posts) -

That's strange seing how they screamed at casual gamers to get the Wii

#124 Posted by Megavideogamer (5467 posts) -

He is right in that casual gamers don't support the videogame industry. They are happy playing flappy bird on the iPhone or Farmville on the iPhone. But don't play games from Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo. Miyamoto has finally learned that non gamers will not buy videogames. Despite the Wii selling 100.9 million consoles. The casual players just played Wii Sports on the console. Maybe Wii Fit and that's about it.

Miyamoto was just a bit slow in learning Casual gamers are not worth the effort. Since they are just content with Farm hero's Saga for free from the iOS store. Not buying any games and supporting the industry.

#125 Posted by Shinobishyguy (22497 posts) -

So people are actually against Miyamoto on this? Weren't you all demonizing them for pandering to the casual devil last gen?

#126 Posted by OhSnapitz (18464 posts) -

ounds like someone has sour grapes because Andriod/IOS has taken their hand held glory.

It's not 1990 Nintendo.. get over it!

#127 Posted by FireEmblem_Man (8838 posts) -

@nintendoboy16 said:

Elsewhere, Sean Malstrom is facepalming... hard.

Of course he is! And I don't like the way Miyamoto is thinking at all. I believe he needs to stay out of the business side of Nintendo and stay in the development process.

#128 Edited by dr_jashugan (2588 posts) -

So when the CASUALS decide NOT to buy your console (the Wii U), you then label them as pathetic?

Mr. Miyamoto, I think you are the true pathetic person, because of these reasons:

1. You alienated core gamers with the Wii

2. Made a weak console (compared to the PS4 and XONE)

3. Failed to explain to consumers that the Wii U is NOT an add on for the Wii

4. Failed to churn out games for the Wii U when it came out

5. Calling people pathetic JUST because your company FAILED to sell your products in large quantities

#129 Posted by MirkoS77 (7786 posts) -
@hiphops_savior said:

@charizard1605: It wasn't a bad idea, however. Nintendo's market share is shrinking since the n64. The Gamecube saw them finishing third behind the Xbox and Halo. Nintendo had to do something different.

The problem was, a lot of the new audience refused to fully commit to the joys of gaming. Part of it has to do with today's culture of instant gratification, which is also blatant in most AAA titles today. Nintendo now has the task to raise a whole new generation of gamers, to provide a whole new audience the magical experience of a challenging experience for everyone.

Nintendo's marketshare decreasing wasn't some conspiracy by gamers. Nintendo simply failed to make an attempt to attract those gamers that MS and Sony did. They failed to evolve their online, they chose design decisions for their hardware that alienated 3rd parties.

Nintendo chose to do something different going after the casuals, they weren't forced to.

Sounds to me like Shiggy's a little po'd that the casuals have abandoned them. Well in my view, Nintendo turned its back on the core starting long before the Wii even arose on-scene and now they're really in a bad place: casuals that just don't care, and the core that's moved on. It'll be interesting to see their next move.

#130 Edited by MirkoS77 (7786 posts) -

@superbuuman said:

@MirkoS77 said:

I don't think Nintendo could anymore confuse people if they tried. Why don't they let their marketing do this for them? All they do with their asinine proclamations is give conflicting signals all over the place.

Nintendo, please, SHUT YOUR MOUTHS! You're doing yourselves no favors.

Well I think they have concentrate too much on casuals/family friendly image & abandoned their core supporters. This hopefully mean they will make their games more challenging rather than design around casuals. Guess we will have to wait & see what their next games will be like..& hopefully this is not just talks. This coming from him is interesting, considering his position. :P

Definitely is, but as I've said the only time I'll take this company at its word is when action is seen. This is all just more PR blowing hot air speak as far as I'm concerned.

I can see what Nintendo tried to do with the Wii=>Wii U. They tried to tap into that vast casual market, then transform those numbers into traditional gamers (gamepad as an attempt to merge touchscreen with the Wii's allure [motion],+buttons and stick[contemporary] interfaces). Problem is, they didn't take into account Apple and the iOS market coming, and they massively overestimated their audiences' interest as anything more than a passing fancy that only cared for the novelty of motion controls, not the games themselves.

A very bad misreading of the market, and admittedly not all Nintendo's fault as the explosion of iOS and its impact on their plan put a huge wrench in the works. Though even if iOS hadn't come screaming to take over, I doubt even then those Wii owners would even be able to name off more than 2-3 Nintendo franchises and they wouldn't have bothered anyhow. These people, as Miyamoto has now stated, are not gamers.

And now Nintendo is where it is. Left behind by casuals and as far as many of the core are concerned, still behind and nearly irrelevant. Nintendo better pray that QoL kicks profits, or they better get a fire lit under their ass and get to work trying to lure back cores by finally putting importance on what they deem important: 3rd party support, more powerful hardware, online, DD. Considering the way things are going, I could really see them exiting the games business as they've left themselves no easy options.

#131 Posted by delta3074 (18504 posts) -

no such thing as a casual gamer IMO, you either play video games a lot or you don't play video games a lot, if you play them a lot you are a gamer, if you don't play them a lot you ARE NOT A GAMER period.

#132 Edited by delta3074 (18504 posts) -

@RoboCopISJesus said:

Isn't that pretty much every console gamer except those who play dark souls type games..

i have bee playing games consoles for 29 years, am i a Casual gamer? i don't think so.

if all you can do is troll Console owners with random comments about how bad they are theres not much point in you being here.