Miyamoto says that casual gamers are "pathetic"

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#51 Posted by Doozie78 (143 posts) -

Lol, that was pretty sweet miyamoto and I have to agree. Screw the casuals, they add nothing desirable to my gaming hobby...

#52 Posted by lostrib (34278 posts) -

Isn't that pretty much every console gamer except those who play dark souls type games..

No, there's also COD pros

So hardcore

#53 Edited by Doozie78 (143 posts) -

This was hilarious, and it's totally CoD in a nutshell. Dudebro's United! Damn I'm glad I'm not in college any more after watching that crap.

#54 Edited by Bread_or_Decide (17319 posts) -

Everyone and their mother knew the Wii's audience was limited time only. I could have told you that and nobody was paying me six figures to head the damn company.

#55 Posted by Heil68 (43414 posts) -

Well the WiiU hasn't shown that at all.

#56 Posted by RoboCopISJesus (1358 posts) -

Lmao that video reminds me of this

#57 Posted by Boddicker (2491 posts) -
#58 Posted by frankopan (186 posts) -

@lostrib: The comment was made about casual gamers yet we have no consensus on what a casual gamer is.

#59 Posted by Shielder7 (5151 posts) -

Sounds like he's a little mad the Casual gamer never jumped on ship with the Wii U.

Nintendo owes the success of the Wii to the Casual gamer.

#60 Posted by Mr_Huggles_dog (644 posts) -

Isn't that pretty much every console gamer except those who play dark souls type games..

Good call....just like every PC gamer is a 40 year old umarried man with the same social skills as a gold fish.

#61 Posted by RR360DD (11598 posts) -

Yeah and he'd be singing a different tune if the casuals lapped up the Wii U like they did the Wii

#62 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (6963 posts) -

@lostrib: The comment was made about casual gamers yet we have no consensus on what a casual gamer is.

It's the guy who plays the same COD, Madden, and Assassin's Creed game every year and never plays anything else, imo.

#63 Edited by super600 (30277 posts) -

I think he is only talking about what they are currently doing with the WiiU. I think their next console will shift back to the casual market a bit.He is not bashing casual gamers.

#64 Posted by StormyJoe (4869 posts) -

@Gue1: So... how is he going to make Mario not casual?

#65 Posted by edwardecl (2102 posts) -

I thought the Wii was the definition of casual console... why would you start insulting your own fan base?

#66 Edited by super600 (30277 posts) -

@Bread_or_Decide said:

Everyone and their mother knew the Wii's audience was limited time only. I could have told you that and nobody was paying me six figures to head the damn company.

A decent portion of the casual market would have bought the WiiU if nintendo tried to appeal to them, but Nintendo didn't care.There are some casuals within their core audience that are still interested in their hardware, but they went after audiences that weren't really interested or less interested in their hardware in the first place(like the core gamers).

#67 Posted by RoboCopISJesus (1358 posts) -

@RoboCopISJesus said:

Isn't that pretty much every console gamer except those who play dark souls type games..

Good call....just like every PC gamer is a 40 year old umarried man with the same social skills as a gold fish.

So like the people in your sig.

#68 Posted by PSP107 (11804 posts) -

@Gue1:

You are ready for a career in sensationalistic journalism. He didn't say they are "pathetic". He said a certain attitude is pathetic to him. Attitudes change with moods and circumstances. He didn't label the casual gamer.

Isn't taking things out of context is what journalism is about?

#69 Edited by hrt_rulz01 (5761 posts) -

Overall I agree with what he says, but maybe say it a bit better next time...

#70 Posted by cainetao11 (16840 posts) -

@PSP107 said:

@cainetao11 said:

@Gue1:

You are ready for a career in sensationalistic journalism. He didn't say they are "pathetic". He said a certain attitude is pathetic to him. Attitudes change with moods and circumstances. He didn't label the casual gamer.

Isn't taking things out of context is what journalism is about?

It's what it has become, I would say. But it isn't what it is taught to be.

#71 Posted by Speak_Low (928 posts) -

Hopefully he understands that you also can't go to the other extreme and now think that only extremely hardcore, punishing titles for 25-35 year old gamers who grew up on Atari should be the only ones to cater to (they're an important segment but Nintendo needs to aim for more than that group). A successful console should have better balance and also cater to mainstream gamers too.

If his definition and my definition of "Casuals" are the same, then we agree. That's the group that are so casual, they probably can't name more than 2-3 developers, don't follow gaming news at all, don't finish any SP campaigns or even know what "SP campaign" means, and actually buy the least software over the course of a generation. I'm thinking of the Wii casuals who bought Wii Fit and all of that cheap shovelware and, right now, have zero gaming consoles plugged into a wall socket at home. That's CASUAL to the max. If Miyamoto wants to completely drop that crowd, then I agree. It doesn't seem worth it to spend so much money and attention on this group who have clearly went on to Apple and Android land are are happily situated there. If you try to make games that they may like, they'll just say "we have mobile for that, lol. What are you doing, Nintendo?" That's why I don't think they are going to come back to home consoles when the always-improving mobile world seems to not only cover their current needs but their future ones as well. These casuals are not even bothering with ZombiU, Wii Fit U, Pikmin 3 and all of those Wii U titles (even the LEGO Wii U games aren't selling that well), so I don't see them returning for the Nintendo successor either.

And my definition of "mainstream" gamers, which I think Nintendo needs to also think about, are those who are less hardcore, and form that large mixed group of more experienced casuals + core players, and those who just game on weekends but still buy quite a few games (and maybe even comprise most of the sales in the end with mega-popular franchises like CODs, Maddens, ACs, GTA, etc). Going for the hardcore/core/mainstreamers seems to be the better option imo (with some very light and experimental casual games here and there but nothing more than that).

It's not just regaining lost sales and the drifting audience from the Wii U that Nintendo needs to think about, but also competing against Sony/MS for a similar group of gamers. This may be a tougher fight for Nintendo and probably why they went casual in the first place. But those seem to be your options now, Nintendo. Which is why people have been so critical and telling you to get a move on things such a long time ago - so the fight wouldn't be so hard and the opponents so formidable as they are now.

#72 Edited by Cyberdot (3518 posts) -

Looks like he finally see the light.

#73 Posted by thehig1 (1357 posts) -

But they´re the majority of your audience.

THIS!

Nintendo should not insult the vast majority of their audience.

#74 Posted by REVOLUTIONfreak (18097 posts) -

This is a pretty big deal, and an indicator of how Nintendo will move forward. But it's also a really, really damaging thing to say when they're banking on courting this same audience for the QoL platform. And I think Miyamoto could have suggested this shift without saying it outright.

#75 Posted by lostrib (34278 posts) -

@lostrib: The comment was made about casual gamers yet we have no consensus on what a casual gamer is.

yeah but why care what someone else labels you (casual or hardcore). If that's how you enjoy spending your time and playing games, it doesn't really matter

#76 Edited by Jag85 (4365 posts) -

I get the feeling something got lost in translation. I wonder what his original Japanese word was that got translated as "pathetic"?

#77 Edited by Daious (1112 posts) -

I remember laughing at miyamoto expression when he was checking out kinect and kinect games.

#78 Edited by getyeryayasout (7169 posts) -

He's calling having a passive attitude towards your entertainment a pathetic thing. I tend to agree with him, but you can't force people to be passionate about something they just don't really care about.

#79 Posted by pyro1245 (535 posts) -

@RoboCopISJesus said:

Isn't that pretty much every console gamer except those who play dark souls type games..

No...no it's not.

Well... as long as you have a PC to play the more in-dpeth games/genres that never make it to systems without proper inputs (K/M)

#80 Posted by HalcyonScarlet (4026 posts) -

Did Nintendo just take a giant piss on their Wii fans? So because 'we no longer need to focus on those gamers' Nintendo or he looks down on them.

What an asshole comment to make. Outside of SWs I celebrate that we now have so many degrees of gamers. I think it's an amazing thing. I thought Nintendo would have too.

I'm disappointed in him for that as well, because Nintendo pioneered some of those games casuals play such as the Game & Watch series I love so much and some early GameBoy and Nes stuff.

Why is he looking down on them. Isn't this the sort of acceptance we wanted, where everyone games to some degree. I don't like the Wii, but I appreciate that some do and Nintendo might have reached some gamers with it. Just like with mobile gaming, I'm not into it, but I like and appreciate that others are.

#81 Edited by Mr_Huggles_dog (644 posts) -

@mr_huggles_dog said:
@RoboCopISJesus said:

Isn't that pretty much every console gamer except those who play dark souls type games..

Good call....just like every PC gamer is a 40 year old umarried man with the same social skills as a gold fish.

So like the people in your sig.

I don't have a sig.

You seem smart.

#82 Edited by lamprey263 (23096 posts) -

I think he means causual gamers are fickle, and they need to capture the crowds who knows what they're looking for.

I think Nintendo should pull an MS/TombRaider deal, but go with titles that'd be easy to pluck from publishers.

For instance the Shin Megami Tensei Persona games have a great cult following, but Persona 3 and Persona 4 weren't great sellers by themselves, neither game sold more than a million first release. So, Nintendo could pretty much pay a low sum of money to guarantee they make their usual revenues, in order to bring the game to the Wii U exclusively.

#83 Edited by super600 (30277 posts) -

@HalcyonScarlet said:

Did Nintendo just take a giant piss on their Wii fans? So because 'we no longer need to focus on those gamers' Nintendo or he looks down on them.

What an asshole comment to make. Outside of SWs I celebrate that we now have so many degrees of gamers. I think it's an amazing thing. I thought Nintendo would have too.

I'm disappointed in him for that as well, because Nintendo pioneered some of those games casuals play such as the Game & Watch series I love so much and some early GameBoy and Nes stuff.

Why is he looking down on them. Isn't this the sort of acceptance we wanted, where everyone games to some degree. I don't like the Wii, but I appreciate that some do and Nintendo might have reached some gamers with it. Just like with mobile gaming, I'm not into it, but I like and appreciate that others are.

He isn't bashing the casuals at all and he isn't saying that they will follow what MS and Sony are doing currently. He is talking about not dumbing down their games to appeal to an audience. A lot of last gen games are guilty of doing this on the Wii,the 360 and the PS3. We are also starting to see this happening to some PS4 and Xbox one games.This is also present on the mobile platforms.A middle ground approach is best for nintendo.

#84 Posted by Kjranu (917 posts) -

Miyamoto's clearly pissed that the Wii brand isn't so hot among casuals anymore.

#85 Posted by Kjranu (917 posts) -

@super600 said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

Did Nintendo just take a giant piss on their Wii fans? So because 'we no longer need to focus on those gamers' Nintendo or he looks down on them.

What an asshole comment to make. Outside of SWs I celebrate that we now have so many degrees of gamers. I think it's an amazing thing. I thought Nintendo would have too.

I'm disappointed in him for that as well, because Nintendo pioneered some of those games casuals play such as the Game & Watch series I love so much and some early GameBoy and Nes stuff.

Why is he looking down on them. Isn't this the sort of acceptance we wanted, where everyone games to some degree. I don't like the Wii, but I appreciate that some do and Nintendo might have reached some gamers with it. Just like with mobile gaming, I'm not into it, but I like and appreciate that others are.

He isn't bashing the casuals at all and he isn't saying that they will follow what MS and Sony are doing currently. He is talking about not dumbing down their games to appeal to an audience. A lot of last gen games are guilty of doing this on the Wii,the 360 and the PS3. We are also starting to see this happening to some PS4 and Xbox one games.This is also present on the mobile platforms.A middle ground approach is best for nintendo.

Nintendo needs to court Western developers back if they want to sell them outside Japan. I think it's a little ridiculous that we're all shocked when Japanese games sell badly here but are unfazed when Western games sell badly over there.

#86 Posted by HalcyonScarlet (4026 posts) -
@super600 said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

Did Nintendo just take a giant piss on their Wii fans? So because 'we no longer need to focus on those gamers' Nintendo or he looks down on them.

What an asshole comment to make. Outside of SWs I celebrate that we now have so many degrees of gamers. I think it's an amazing thing. I thought Nintendo would have too.

I'm disappointed in him for that as well, because Nintendo pioneered some of those games casuals play such as the Game & Watch series I love so much and some early GameBoy and Nes stuff.

Why is he looking down on them. Isn't this the sort of acceptance we wanted, where everyone games to some degree. I don't like the Wii, but I appreciate that some do and Nintendo might have reached some gamers with it. Just like with mobile gaming, I'm not into it, but I like and appreciate that others are.

He isn't bashing the casuals at all and he isn't saying that they will follow what MS and Sony are doing currently. He is talking about not dumbing down their games to appeal to an audience. A lot of last gen games are guilty of doing this on the Wii,the 360 and the PS3. We are also starting to see this happening to some PS4 and Xbox one games.This is also present on the mobile platforms.A middle ground approach is best for nintendo.

If that's what he meant, that's cool, but it was a poor choice of words I think. It sounds like he's saying it's pathetic to be that degree of a gamer with that attitude.

#87 Posted by Demonjoe93 (9523 posts) -

He's not calling them pathetic; he's calling their attitude pathetic.

#88 Edited by super600 (30277 posts) -

@super600 said:

@HalcyonScarlet said:

Did Nintendo just take a giant piss on their Wii fans? So because 'we no longer need to focus on those gamers' Nintendo or he looks down on them.

What an asshole comment to make. Outside of SWs I celebrate that we now have so many degrees of gamers. I think it's an amazing thing. I thought Nintendo would have too.

I'm disappointed in him for that as well, because Nintendo pioneered some of those games casuals play such as the Game & Watch series I love so much and some early GameBoy and Nes stuff.

Why is he looking down on them. Isn't this the sort of acceptance we wanted, where everyone games to some degree. I don't like the Wii, but I appreciate that some do and Nintendo might have reached some gamers with it. Just like with mobile gaming, I'm not into it, but I like and appreciate that others are.

He isn't bashing the casuals at all and he isn't saying that they will follow what MS and Sony are doing currently. He is talking about not dumbing down their games to appeal to an audience. A lot of last gen games are guilty of doing this on the Wii,the 360 and the PS3. We are also starting to see this happening to some PS4 and Xbox one games.This is also present on the mobile platforms.A middle ground approach is best for nintendo.

If that's what he meant, that's cool, but it was a poor choice of words I think. It sounds like he's saying it's pathetic to be that degree of a gamer with that attitude.

Someone probably mistranslated what he said.

#89 Posted by Heirren (16507 posts) -

I agree. I've said it very recently that I don't think the games of today are games at all.

#90 Edited by PimpHand_Gamer (272 posts) -

He's obviously butthurt because if he truly meant that then he would have known that long before the WiiU came out.

@frankopan said:

Can someone give us the definition of a "casual gamer"? Is it dependent on time spent gaming? The genres someone like? Please enlighten me because just recently I classified myself as such due to the fact that I have a few franchises that I'm more or less loyal to. I game on a PC which I spent some pretty coin on. I recently bought my first console in 17 years, the 3ds xl and am enjoying Ocarina of time. However, I game from hour and a half to 3 hours a day. Hardcore casual?

Casually game...you do know what casual is right? Relaxed, unconcerned, irregular. If you're a casual gamer, you don't take it seriously, you don't play regularly and you don't play any game that requires any complexity,persistence or time consumption. Casual games can be something like Chess or Angry Birds or it can also even be Unreal Tournament if you are just occasionally dropping in for a quick match and not taking it seriously. The actual type of game itself isn't really what makes you one or the other, it's how you take it. I suppose if you play Dark Souls irregularly and don't really try nor care if you beat it or achieve more than last time then you're certainly a casual gamer but often such gamers don't attempt to play these types of games if there is no quick or easy reward. They may also rather watch someone else play games than play it themselves. Interest in games but with no ambition or desire.

How to know if you're a hard core gamer: If you are devoted to any particular game at any point in time. If you can enjoy most any type of game regardless of platform, simplicity or complexity. You can enjoy Pac Man and yet you try to get a high score and you can enjoy BF or Skyrim and take it seriously enough to achieve and put some time and effort into the games you play. How often you play them is irrelevant so long as it's a regular schedule of some sort. Could be monthly, weekly or daily...and if you really have no life then it's hourly. You enjoy reading and conversing about games and related material. It can be a hobby in your spare time or it can consume your entire life. For the hardcore crowd, it's only about the games and you just flat out have fun playing them when you can or desire.

How to know if you're an elitist or hardware enthusiast: If you only care about specific games for a specific platform. You easily dismiss any game that doesn't fit into you're ideal perceptions of how it should look, run or control. These types often become graphic whores, are very opinionated within strict confines and defensive. They may also play irregularly, complain a lot sometimes with fits of rage and consistent with pointing out flaws in games. By definition they are not much of a gamer per say, rather they are dreamers always raging about how any particular game isn't real enough. Usually purchases bleeding edge hardware, likes to benchmark a lot, brag, tweak settings...etc. Speaks more often of hardware than games and/or enjoys any excuse for entitlement or superiority of having the "best" version of any particular game. These types can be PC, console or just old school players that miss the old days.

#91 Posted by PrincessGomez92 (3460 posts) -

Where did he say that? Oh right, Gue1 (lol) thread.

#92 Posted by Heirren (16507 posts) -

He's obviously butthurt because if he truly meant that then he would have known that long before the WiiU came out.

@frankopan said:

Can someone give us the definition of a "casual gamer"? Is it dependent on time spent gaming? The genres someone like? Please enlighten me because just recently I classified myself as such due to the fact that I have a few franchises that I'm more or less loyal to. I game on a PC which I spent some pretty coin on. I recently bought my first console in 17 years, the 3ds xl and am enjoying Ocarina of time. However, I game from hour and a half to 3 hours a day. Hardcore casual?

Casually game...you do know what casual is right? Relaxed, unconcerned, irregular. If you're a casual gamer, you don't take it seriously, you don't play regularly and you don't play any game that requires any complexity,persistence or time consumption. Casual games can be something like Chess or Angry Birds or it can also even be Unreal Tournament if you are just occasionally dropping in for a quick match and not taking it seriously. The actual type of game itself isn't really what makes you one or the other, it's how you take it. I suppose if you play Dark Souls irregularly and don't really try nor care if you beat it or achieve more than last time then you're certainly a casual gamer but often such gamers don't attempt to play these types of games if there is no quick or easy reward. They may also rather watch someone else play games than play it themselves. Interest in games but with no ambition or desire.

How to know if you're a hard core gamer: If you are devoted to any particular game at any point in time. If you can enjoy most any type of game regardless of platform, simplicity or complexity. You can enjoy Pac Man and yet you try to get a high score and you can enjoy BF or Skyrim and take it seriously enough to achieve and put some time and effort into the games you play. How often you play them is irrelevant so long as it's a regular schedule of some sort. Could be monthly, weekly or daily...and if you really have no life then it's hourly.

How to know if you're an elitist or hardware enthusiast: If you only care about specific games for a specific platform. You easily dismiss any game that doesn't fit into you're ideal perceptions of how it should look, run or control. These types often become graphic whores, are very opinionated within strict confines and defensive. They may also play irregularly, complain a lot sometimes with fits of rage and consistent with pointing out flaws in games. By definition they are not much of a gamer per say, rather they are dreamers always raging about how any particular game isn't real enough. Usually purchases bleeding edge hardware, likes to benchmark a lot, brag, tweak settings...etc. Speaks more often of hardware than games and/or enjoys any excuse for entitlement or superiority of having the "best" version of any particular game. These types can be PC, console or just old school players that miss the old days.

Not sure I agree. Almost all fps and tps games are casual in solo mode. Any multiplayer game that allows for skill improvement can allow for a "hardcore attitude.

Nintendo Land can be played casually, but the high score nature of the game potentially makes it more hardcore than most of these "mature" movie games.

#93 Edited by verbalfilth (4584 posts) -

LMAOOOOOOOo

Coincidentally, I came home from work today, stopped over at walmart to do some grocery shopping, Saw a wii U in front of me and figured...Meh, why not?

I came home, set it up (its updating as we speak)

log into system wars and see this.

Hopefully I'll use my brand new wii U more than I was anticipating I would if Miyamoto/Nintendo is going to put their money where their mouth is.

#94 Posted by Minishdriveby (9734 posts) -

His statement implicates he did not want to make a lot of the games that he made, wasting the past decade trying to make something he didn't believe in.

#95 Posted by PS4hasNOgames (1345 posts) -

i don't know what to say. his entire fan base are casuals. then again, a lot of nintendo games are pretty deep. zelda is a deep game masked as a casual game.

#96 Posted by Heirren (16507 posts) -

i don't know what to say. his entire fan base are casuals. then again, a lot of nintendo games are pretty deep. zelda is a deep game masked as a casual game.

If his entire fanbase was casual then wiiu would be much better. The casual fanbase are on xbox and playstation. Casuals don't even know what a wiiu is. If I were to ask a casual gamer in a random situation about what nintendo wiiu is, they'd likely respond, "what, nintendo? you mean like, from the 80s and 90s?"

#97 Posted by SolidGame_basic (16774 posts) -

Nintendo did lose touch with their fervent base. Would be great to see them make a comeback.

#98 Edited by magicalclick (22429 posts) -

I think he was talking about flappy bird crowd.

#99 Posted by bbkkristian (14940 posts) -

@RR360DD: exactly, I think this is new position because the Wii U niche is composed of the fans that have stuck with Nintendo. I also believe he was taking a jab at the casuals who bandwagon bought the ps4.

Either way, this is good news. Nintendo's new focus on their fans something we've been asking for for years.

#100 Posted by PS4hasNOgames (1345 posts) -

@Heirren said:

@ps4hasnogames said:

i don't know what to say. his entire fan base are casuals. then again, a lot of nintendo games are pretty deep. zelda is a deep game masked as a casual game.

If his entire fanbase was casual then wiiu would be much better. The casual fanbase are on xbox and playstation. Casuals don't even know what a wiiu is. If I were to ask a casual gamer in a random situation about what nintendo wiiu is, they'd likely respond, "what, nintendo? you mean like, from the 80s and 90s?"

how ironic that the wii u is a hardcore console lol. lets run with that notion for this gen.....would get the entire system warriors' panties in a bunch.