Microsoft to announce DirectX 12 on GDC

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#1 Edited by IgGy621985 (4746 posts) -

Well folks, time to throw your Titans and 780 Ti's to the trash bin :-P

The session promises to reveal "improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware".

The last significant version of Microsoft's longstanding graphics API, DirectX 11.2, was introduced on October 18, 2013, adding Windows 8.1 support to DX11, which was originally launched Windows 7 and Vista rigs in October 2009.

More here.

#2 Posted by lglz1337 (3419 posts) -

will still be behind opengl

#3 Edited by Shewgenja (8777 posts) -

Maybe this will be the all-inclusive general entertainment DirectX.

#4 Posted by bobbetybob (19250 posts) -

Meh, if it's anything like DX11 it won't be worth it for a few years anyway.

#5 Posted by Masculus (2834 posts) -

We barely seen any real games in DX11...

#6 Posted by osirisx3 (1772 posts) -

well they need a way to keep selling gpus there are hardly any native dx 11 games i wonder how this will do.

#7 Posted by NFJSupreme (5295 posts) -

the real next gen is coming to PC. DirectX 12, new generation of GPU architecture. Mantle still in it's infancy. The future is bright and sunny for the PC.

#8 Edited by RageQuit4Life (355 posts) -

OpenGL FTW

#9 Posted by nyzma23 (924 posts) -

@Masculus said:

We barely seen any real games in DX11...

thanks to console holding back pc gaming

#10 Posted by GrenadeLauncher (4612 posts) -

When are they going to announce a game? Since E3 all they've announced is Fable Legends.

#11 Edited by uninspiredcup (8294 posts) -

It will be a big advertisement for Xbox. Microsoft no care about pc.

#12 Edited by nyzma23 (924 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

It will be a big advertisement for Xbox. Microsoft no care about pc.

what ?? have you look the banner from tc with nvdia,amd,intel and qualcomm

it probably for all platform xbox,pc and mobile

#13 Posted by Truth_Hurts_U (9209 posts) -

@Masculus:

Yeah, took years to start seeing games finally take use of DX11 and there are still tons that are DX9 and 10.

#14 Posted by killatwill15 (845 posts) -

lol and @me3x12 is still praising dx 11.2,

I guess Microsoft is trashing their own trolls with this release

#15 Posted by farrell2k (5857 posts) -

Opengl is still the future...

#16 Edited by Locutus_Picard (3980 posts) -

The bloatware called DirectX is still alive? I'm surprised it's not added to spyware libraries of malicious software yet.

#17 Posted by Peredith (2310 posts) -

@nyzma23 said:

@Masculus said:

We barely seen any real games in DX11...

thanks to console holding back pc gaming

Nothing's holding back PC exclusives, so why isn't there any native DX11 PC exclusives?

#18 Edited by Couth_ (10059 posts) -

@Peredith said:

@nyzma23 said:

@Masculus said:

We barely seen any real games in DX11...

thanks to console holding back pc gaming

Nothing's holding back PC exclusives, so why isn't there any native DX11 PC exclusives?

Perhaps developers skip every other DX because it's crap, or just not worth the upgrade, the same way some consumers like to skip every other Windows because it's crap, or just not worth the upgrade. Can't wait for Win9 :>

#19 Posted by TrappedInABox91 (587 posts) -

Yay? lol

NOT.

#20 Edited by Dire_Weasel (16000 posts) -

Okay.

#21 Posted by Alcapello (884 posts) -

When are they going to announce a game? Since E3 all they've announced is Fable Legends.

That's a good start, and after that they will move onto halo. Coming from the 360 though I wouldn't expect much else.

#22 Edited by kalipekona (2299 posts) -

@Truth_Hurts_U said:

@Masculus:

Yeah, took years to start seeing games finally take use of DX11 and there are still tons that are DX9 and 10.

We're barely into a new generation of consoles. Most games going forward will be DirectX11 games.

Developers had to specifically add DirectX11 rendering and all the extra features to PC games since the console versions were based off DirectX9. Not many developers could afford to do so. But now that both PS4 and XB1 have DirectX11 capable GPUs most PC games will be DirectX11 or higher. Battlefield 4, AC4 and Thief are all DirectX11 games, for example.

#23 Posted by BygByron3 (5571 posts) -

I'm betting DirectX 12 is an extremely lightweight API that's for ARM and x86.

#24 Posted by ShepardCommandr (2571 posts) -

@Masculus said:

We barely seen any real games in DX11...

#25 Posted by ronvalencia (15110 posts) -

I'm betting DirectX 12 is an extremely lightweight API that's for ARM and x86.

Xbox One's DirectX 11.X is already light weight and it's a superset of PC's DirectX 11.2.

#26 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16449 posts) -

Will it be a W8 exclusive ?

If so, why would Nvidia and AMD support this, knowning that 99% of gamers are using W7 ?

#27 Posted by Desmonic (13745 posts) -

Can't wait to see lems claiming the X1 will be more POWAFUHL because of TEH DX12's!!! :P

#28 Posted by Krelian-co (10658 posts) -

@Desmonic said:

Can't wait to see lems claiming the X1 will be more POWAFUHL because of TEH DX12's!!! :P

TEH DX12 + TEH MYTIC SDK + TEH CLOUD = NASA SUPERCOMPUTAH (who cares about the esram bottleneck or the 7790, never stop believing!)

#29 Posted by speedfog (3113 posts) -

Awesome. Bring it on!

#30 Edited by IgGy621985 (4746 posts) -

@R4gn4r0k said:

Will it be a W8 exclusive ?

If so, why would Nvidia and AMD support this, knowning that 99% of gamers are using W7 ?

Probably not. It would be silly for Microsoft to ditch Windows 7 userbase, since Windows 7 and Windows 8 are practically based on the same kernel.

Then again, we are talking about Microsoft here, so anything is possible. In the end, DirectX12 could be a Windows 9 exclusive.

#31 Posted by HaloinventedFPS (4723 posts) -

Hmm Microsoft said they were not going to make another API & then AMD made Mantle, surprise Directx12! I hope DX12 is as good as Mantle & not another DX10

Also it will be Windows 8 exclusive like 11.2 is, which sucks, but if Windows 9 is Desktop focused like rumors say, i don't see why anyone wouldn't upgrade from 7 to 9

#32 Posted by ronvalencia (15110 posts) -

@R4gn4r0k said:

Will it be a W8 exclusive ?

If so, why would Nvidia and AMD support this, knowning that 99% of gamers are using W7 ?

Probably not. It would be silly for Microsoft to ditch Windows 7 userbase, since Windows 7 and Windows 8 are practically based on the same kernel.

Then again, we are talking about Microsoft here, so anything is possible. In the end, Windows 12 could be a Windows 9 exclusive.

Windows 7's WDM 1.1 driver model is slightly different to Windows 8.1's WDM 1.3.

#33 Edited by ronvalencia (15110 posts) -

@IgGy621985 said:

Well folks, time to throw your Titans and 780 Ti's to the trash bin :-P

The session promises to reveal "improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware".

The last significant version of Microsoft's longstanding graphics API, DirectX 11.2, was introduced on October 18, 2013, adding Windows 8.1 support to DX11, which was originally launched Windows 7 and Vista rigs in October 2009.

More here.

GTX 750 Ti Maxwell is still hardware "feature level 11_0" (1).

1. Read http://www.zotac.com/au/news/press-releases/article/archive/2014/february/article/zotac-launches-new-performance-and-flagship-graphics-cards.html

"DirectX 11.2 (feature level 11_0) technology".

Xbox One's DirectX 11.X superset runtime software can be made to run on "hardware feature 11_0" GPUs by removing DirectX 11.X's GCN based extensions e.g.

  • Improved draw calls are not dependent on AMD GCN.
  • improved GPU command dispatch latency is not dependent on AMD GCN.
  • Improved GpGPU results CPU return latency is not dependent on AMD GCN.

--------------------------

Intel has their own APU and it's based on X86's memory handling designs.

AMD GCN's memory handling is also based on X86's memory handling designs.

#34 Edited by Desmonic (13745 posts) -
#35 Edited by naz99 (1296 posts) -

Its MS we are talking about here we clearly won't be able to use it unless we buy windows 9......

#36 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16449 posts) -

@R4gn4r0k said:

Will it be a W8 exclusive ?

If so, why would Nvidia and AMD support this, knowning that 99% of gamers are using W7 ?

Probably not. It would be silly for Microsoft to ditch Windows 7 userbase, since Windows 7 and Windows 8 are practically based on the same kernel.

Then again, we are talking about Microsoft here, so anything is possible. In the end, DirectX12 could be a Windows 9 exclusive.

Yup, if, and that's a big IF, they release any more games on PC, I can see them becoming Windows 8 exclusive just to sell their stupid OS to gamers. They've done this before

But wasn't DX11.2 or 11.3 or whatever exclusive to W8?

#37 Posted by ronvalencia (15110 posts) -
#38 Posted by IgGy621985 (4746 posts) -
#39 Edited by sts106mat (19425 posts) -

does this mean games will be look and play better then? I have not got a clue about stuff like this. will it be on the XB1? if anyone can be bothered to give me a brief idiots guide, i'll be interested / greatfull.

#40 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16449 posts) -

does this mean games will be look and play better then? I have not got a clue about stuff like this. will it be on the XB1? if anyone can be bothered to give me a brief idiots guide, i'll be interested / greatfull.

I'm an idiot myself when it comes to this stuff. But from what I understand new DirectX software and hardware that supports it allow for better looking & new effects in games. So better looking games.

You do need hardware that supports it, so PC gamers will have to get a DX12 graphics card that supports it and Xbone and PS4 have graphics cards that support DX11 (or 11.2) so won't be able to do those effects or at least not to the full extent.

#41 Posted by SelfReflect (116 posts) -

Like most Microsoft products are, Direct DX has always been vastly over rated

Most game developers themselfes will tell you they prefer open GL

#42 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (6760 posts) -

This was announced for windows, phone and console.

I think the PS4 just became obsolete.

#43 Edited by Grey_Eyed_Elf (3770 posts) -

Fast forward to the first DX12 game release and someone posts a comparison of the same game running in DX11 and DX12 and what do you no you can't tell the difference.

Wake me up when the majority of games actually take advantage of DX11 features.

Also I buy a new GPU every year or so this GTX 780 Ti users doesn't care.

#44 Posted by Desmonic (13745 posts) -

@IgGy621985: I really can't tell if he is a master troll or he seriously didn't get it lulz Ah well, another of SW's mysteries :P

#45 Edited by kipsta77 (984 posts) -

Cool! If it's like DX11 it won't be worth it anytime soon...

lol consoles...

#46 Posted by ronvalencia (15110 posts) -

does this mean games will be look and play better then? I have not got a clue about stuff like this. will it be on the XB1? if anyone can be bothered to give me a brief idiots guide, i'll be interested / greatfull.

Better GpGPU real time compute i.e. GpGPU results being returned back to the CPU less than 16 ms. Read http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

This improvement can be useful for

1. non-gaming applications such as GpGPU's real time DSP audio/signalling workloads.

2. GpGPU real time compute for server side MMOs and other real time cloud based GpGPU compute.

Improved Total War/RTS types games that doesn't use GPU's instancing workaround i.e. mass 3d object copy-and-paste. Each object can be unique which improves simulation. For example, Star Swarm tech demo http://store.steampowered.com/app/267130/

Read http://techreport.com/review/25683/delving-deeper-into-amd-mantle-api/2

#47 Posted by IgGy621985 (4746 posts) -

@sts106mat said:

does this mean games will be look and play better then? I have not got a clue about stuff like this. will it be on the XB1? if anyone can be bothered to give me a brief idiots guide, i'll be interested / greatfull.

Better GpGPU real time compute i.e. GpGPU results being returned back to the CPU less than 16 ms. Read http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

This improvement can be useful for

1. non-gaming applications such as GpGPU's real time DSP audio/signalling workloads.

2. GpGPU real time compute for server side MMOs and other real time cloud based GpGPU compute.

Improved Total War/RTS types games that doesn't use GPU's instancing workaround i.e. mass 3d object copy-and-paste. Each object can be unique which improves simulation. For example, Star Swarm tech demo http://store.steampowered.com/app/267130/

Read http://techreport.com/review/25683/delving-deeper-into-amd-mantle-api/2

Dude, while all of this is awesome, the guy said he has no clue about stuff like this, so try to be less... technical :-)

#48 Edited by sts106mat (19425 posts) -

@R4gn4r0k said:

@sts106mat said:

does this mean games will be look and play better then? I have not got a clue about stuff like this. will it be on the XB1? if anyone can be bothered to give me a brief idiots guide, i'll be interested / greatfull.

I'm an idiot myself when it comes to this stuff. But from what I understand new DirectX software and hardware that supports it allow for better looking & new effects in games. So better looking games.

You do need hardware that supports it, so PC gamers will have to get a DX12 graphics card that supports it and Xbone and PS4 have graphics cards that support DX11 (or 11.2) so won't be able to do those effects or at least not to the full extent.

thanks dude, i wonder if Xone could be updated via teh cloud?

@ronvalencia said:

@sts106mat said:

does this mean games will be look and play better then? I have not got a clue about stuff like this. will it be on the XB1? if anyone can be bothered to give me a brief idiots guide, i'll be interested / greatfull.

Better GpGPU real time compute i.e. GpGPU results being returned back to the CPU less than 16 ms. Read http://www.slideshare.net/zlatan4177/gpgpu-algorithms-in-games

This improvement can be useful for

1. non-gaming applications such as GpGPU's real time DSP audio/signalling workloads.

2. GpGPU real time compute for server side MMOs and other real time cloud based GpGPU compute.

Improved Total War/RTS types games that doesn't use GPU's instancing workaround i.e. mass 3d object copy-and-paste. Each object can be unique which improves simulation. For example, Star Swarm tech demo http://store.steampowered.com/app/267130/

Read http://techreport.com/review/25683/delving-deeper-into-amd-mantle-api/2

Lol, thanks mate, i did say idiots guide haha,

@IgGy621985 haha exactly!

#49 Edited by ronvalencia (15110 posts) -
@R4gn4r0k said:

@sts106mat said:

does this mean games will be look and play better then? I have not got a clue about stuff like this. will it be on the XB1? if anyone can be bothered to give me a brief idiots guide, i'll be interested / greatfull.

I'm an idiot myself when it comes to this stuff. But from what I understand new DirectX software and hardware that supports it allow for better looking & new effects in games. So better looking games.

You do need hardware that supports it, so PC gamers will have to get a DX12 graphics card that supports it and Xbone and PS4 have graphics cards that support DX11 (or 11.2) so won't be able to do those effects or at least not to the full extent.

Xbox One's DirectX 11.X and hardware is already a superset of PC's DirectX 11.2.

Read http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx

The Xbox One graphics API is “Direct3D 11.x” and the Xbox One hardware provides a superset of Direct3D 11.2 functionality.

We’re also working with our ISV and IHV partners on future efforts, including bringing the lightweight runtime and tooling capabilities of the Xbox One Direct3D implementation to Windows, and identifying the next generation of advanced 3D graphics technologies.

Example of Xbox One's DirectX 11.X superiority over PC's DirectX 11.2

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-microsoft-to-unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers

"In addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes,"

Xbox One's DirectX 11.X supports AMD GCN's multiple ACE (Asynchronous Compute Engines) units. With PC's DirectX 11.2, AMD GCN's multiple ACE units would not be used.

Current AMD GCN goes beyond PC's DirectX 11.2 i.e. can support Xbox One's DirectX11.X superset.

NVIDIA has similar multiple queue feature with their HyperQ for GK110 (aka GeForce GTX 780/Titan/780 Ti/ Titan BE) and GM107 "Maxwell" (aka GeForce GTX 750 Ti).

#50 Edited by R4gn4r0k (16449 posts) -

@R4gn4r0k said:

@sts106mat said:

does this mean games will be look and play better then? I have not got a clue about stuff like this. will it be on the XB1? if anyone can be bothered to give me a brief idiots guide, i'll be interested / greatfull.

I'm an idiot myself when it comes to this stuff. But from what I understand new DirectX software and hardware that supports it allow for better looking & new effects in games. So better looking games.

You do need hardware that supports it, so PC gamers will have to get a DX12 graphics card that supports it and Xbone and PS4 have graphics cards that support DX11 (or 11.2) so won't be able to do those effects or at least not to the full extent.

Xbox One's DirectX 11.X and hardware is already a superset of PC's DirectX 11.2.

Read http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx

The Xbox One graphics API is “Direct3D 11.x” and the Xbox One hardware provides a superset of Direct3D 11.2 functionality.

We’re also working with our ISV and IHV partners on future efforts, including bringing the lightweight runtime and tooling capabilities of the Xbox One Direct3D implementation to Windows, and identifying the next generation of advanced 3D graphics technologies.

Example of Xbox One's DirectX 11.X superiority over PC's DirectX 11.2

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-microsoft-to-unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers

"In addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes,"

Xbox One's DirectX 11.X supports AMD GCN's multiple ACE units. With PC's DirectX 11.2, AMD GCN's multiple ACE units would not be used.

Current AMD GCN goes beyond PC's DirectX 11.2 i.e. can support Xbox One's DirectX11.X superset.

NVIDIA has similar ACE unit feature with their HyperQ for GK110 (aka GeForce GTX 780/Titan/T780 Ti/ Titan BE) and GM107 "Maxwell" (aka GeForce GTX 750 Ti).

But can Direct X 11.X hardware do DirectX 12 ?