Microsoft Lacks a "Top Tier" Dev

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#1 Posted by Sweenix (5399 posts) -

Nintendo has EAD and Sony has Naughty dog, But honestly, does microsoft have a dev that can even come close?

#2 Posted by BattlefieldFan3 (341 posts) -

No. Microsoft's best studio is 343i, and they're pretty mediocre.

#3 Posted by ConanTheStoner (5587 posts) -

You could say the same about Sony, really. Unless your definition of top tier is a bit lenient.

#4 Posted by Sweenix (5399 posts) -

@ConanTheStoner said:

You could say the same about Sony, really. Unless your definition of top tier is a bit lenient.

I'm talking about Dev not devs, and naughty dog are one of the finest devs out there, so you cant say the same about sony.

#5 Edited by navyguy21 (12943 posts) -

I think the Black Tusk Studio title will surprise people.


Also, MS has invested over a billion in studios and exclusive 2nd party games. Im sure one of them will produce a AAA game.

#6 Posted by BattlefieldFan3 (341 posts) -

@navyguy21 said:

I think the Black Tusk Studio title will surprise people.

Also, MS has invested over a billion in studios and exclusive 2nd party games. Im sure one of them will produce a AAA game.

They better have. There is no way Microsoft is going to make a profit or even break even this gen. All they can do is keep Xbots from fleeing to the better gaming platform. Expect billions of dollars in losses for the Xbox division this gen.

#7 Posted by ConanTheStoner (5587 posts) -

@Sweenix said:

@ConanTheStoner said:

You could say the same about Sony, really. Unless your definition of top tier is a bit lenient.

I'm talking about Dev not devs, and naughty dog are one of the finest devs out there, so you cant say the same about sony.

When I think top tier, I'm thinking something like top 5 at most. ND has had a couple of flashes in the pan over the years and are certainly poised to become a formidable power-house going forward, but I just don't view them as top tier right now.

If we're only limiting this to the scope of 1st party devs, then sure.

#8 Edited by Sweenix (5399 posts) -

@ConanTheStoner said:

@Sweenix said:

@ConanTheStoner said:

You could say the same about Sony, really. Unless your definition of top tier is a bit lenient.

I'm talking about Dev not devs, and naughty dog are one of the finest devs out there, so you cant say the same about sony.

When I think top tier, I'm thinking something like top 5 at most. ND has had a couple of flashes in the pan over the years and are certainly poised to become a formidable power-house going forward, but I just don't view them as top tier right now.

If we're only limiting this to the scope of 1st party devs, then sure.

Naughty dog, managed to make a game that completely overshadowed Grand Theft Auto 5, Name a dev who can do that.

Also, Uncharted 2 and 3 were one of the most well received games from this generation, yes naughty dog weren't "Top Tier" at the start of the generation, but now they are, i would even put them above rockstar games, and drawn with nintendo EAD, they are that good.

#9 Posted by navyguy21 (12943 posts) -

@BattlefieldFan3 said:

@navyguy21 said:

I think the Black Tusk Studio title will surprise people.

Also, MS has invested over a billion in studios and exclusive 2nd party games. Im sure one of them will produce a AAA game.

They better have. There is no way Microsoft is going to make a profit or even break even this gen. All they can do is keep Xbots from fleeing to the better gaming platform. Expect billions of dollars in losses for the Xbox division this gen.

The hell is wrong with you?

#10 Posted by Gaming-Planet (14022 posts) -

Microsoft has EA and Activision. A nice triangle jerk circle for money.

#11 Posted by ConanTheStoner (5587 posts) -

@Sweenix said:

@ConanTheStoner said:

@Sweenix said:

@ConanTheStoner said:

You could say the same about Sony, really. Unless your definition of top tier is a bit lenient.

I'm talking about Dev not devs, and naughty dog are one of the finest devs out there, so you cant say the same about sony.

When I think top tier, I'm thinking something like top 5 at most. ND has had a couple of flashes in the pan over the years and are certainly poised to become a formidable power-house going forward, but I just don't view them as top tier right now.

If we're only limiting this to the scope of 1st party devs, then sure.

Naughty dog, managed to make a game that completely overshadowed Grand Theft Auto 5, Name a dev who can do that.

Also, Uncharted 2 and 3 were one of the most well received games from this generation, yes naughty dog weren't "Top Tier" at the start of the generation, but now they are, i would even put them above rockstar games, and drawn with nintendo EAD, they are that good.

Mmmm, not really sure what you mean by overshadowed GTA5. Might need to elaborate on that one. I personally enjoyed TLOU more than GTA5 (not much of a GTA fan), but I don't really see were you're coming from.

Uncharted 2 was fantastic. Uncharted 3 was good. I would argue that ND was better before last gen, but that's just me. Still, I can think of quite a few studios with more merit. Sony did wonders with their 1st party last gen and I think the pay off will be big this gen, but I just don't see any of their studios as being at the top of the pile.

#12 Posted by Sweenix (5399 posts) -

@ConanTheStoner said:

@Sweenix said:

@ConanTheStoner said:

@Sweenix said:

@ConanTheStoner said:

You could say the same about Sony, really. Unless your definition of top tier is a bit lenient.

I'm talking about Dev not devs, and naughty dog are one of the finest devs out there, so you cant say the same about sony.

When I think top tier, I'm thinking something like top 5 at most. ND has had a couple of flashes in the pan over the years and are certainly poised to become a formidable power-house going forward, but I just don't view them as top tier right now.

If we're only limiting this to the scope of 1st party devs, then sure.

Naughty dog, managed to make a game that completely overshadowed Grand Theft Auto 5, Name a dev who can do that.

Also, Uncharted 2 and 3 were one of the most well received games from this generation, yes naughty dog weren't "Top Tier" at the start of the generation, but now they are, i would even put them above rockstar games, and drawn with nintendo EAD, they are that good.

Mmmm, not really sure what you mean by overshadowed GTA5. Might need to elaborate on that one. I personally enjoyed TLOU more than GTA5 (not much of a GTA fan), but I don't really see were you're coming from.

Uncharted 2 was fantastic. Uncharted 3 was good. I would argue that ND was better before last gen, but that's just me. Still, I can think of quite a few studios with more merit. Sony did wonders with their 1st party last gen and I think the pay off will be big this gen, but I just don't see any of their studios as being at the top of the pile.

By overshadowed i mean within the gaming community, And the last of us managed to receive over 200 game of the year awards, which is more more then grand theft auto 5

#13 Posted by challenger_155 (47 posts) -

Microsoft still has 343 Industries, and I gotta say I enjoyed the last Halo, but aside from that, they are lacking a top-tier dev.

#14 Posted by lamprey263 (24130 posts) -

they don't need them if they can just hire good studios to do work for them

#15 Posted by R3FURBISHED (10591 posts) -

@BattlefieldFan3 said:

No. Microsoft's best studio is 343i, and they're pretty mediocre.

They've made one game - and that game is very highly rated and sold very, very well.

What factors go into you saying 343 is a "pretty mediocre" developer?

#16 Edited by Heil68 (45125 posts) -

Since Bungie left and Epic is no longer working on exclusives for MS, I tend to agree.

#17 Edited by timbers_WSU (5753 posts) -

Turn 10 made Polyphony irrelevant. That is their best dev. Lowest scoring game was an 80 on Metacritic and are considered the best console racing developer. So there it is.

#18 Edited by nhh18 (6538 posts) -

People think that naughty dog isn't elite. They just created the biggest new ip of this gen. Unlike uncharted, there is data that backs up that this game has sold tons. A million in its first month. 300k the next month. It was top 10 in every pal for 3 months. It is a super franchise. I wonder how much it sold. It must be at the 5-6 million. With ps4 release it will be at 8 million. They literally created a halo. Uncharted was never a big franchise but the last of us is a huge franchise. I can't imagine seeing the next title not selling 8 million. Naughty Dog is elite in any way you think about it. They created the biggest ip of xbox 360 and ps3 generation. They won 2 consensus game of the years. Naughty Dog is a brand name in the same way valve/blizzard/rockstar/bethsesda. Those are the 5 biggest developers in the world at the moment/

#19 Edited by treedoor (7648 posts) -

@nhh18 said:

People think that naughty dog isn't elite. They just created the biggest new ip of this gen. Unlike uncharted, there is data that backs up that this game has sold tons. A million in its first month. 300k the next month. It was top 10 in every pal for 3 months. It is a super franchise. I wonder how much it sold. It must be at the 5-6 million. With ps4 release it will be at 8 million. They literally created a halo. Uncharted was never a big franchise but the last of us is a huge franchise. I can't imagine seeing the next title not selling 8 million.

Selling 5-6 million does not make it the "biggest new ip of this gen". Not even close.

#20 Edited by BattlefieldFan3 (341 posts) -

@treedoor said:

@nhh18 said:

People think that naughty dog isn't elite. They just created the biggest new ip of this gen. Unlike uncharted, there is data that backs up that this game has sold tons. A million in its first month. 300k the next month. It was top 10 in every pal for 3 months. It is a super franchise. I wonder how much it sold. It must be at the 5-6 million. With ps4 release it will be at 8 million. They literally created a halo. Uncharted was never a big franchise but the last of us is a huge franchise. I can't imagine seeing the next title not selling 8 million.

Selling 5-6 million does not make it the "biggest new ip of this gen". Not even close.

Better than destroying a franchise that sells 10 million each iteration. *cough* 343i *cough*

#21 Edited by hrt_rulz01 (6205 posts) -

They have 343i, Turn 10, Rare, Lionhead etc. Whether they're "top tier" is a matter of opinion I guess. I rate them highly.

#22 Edited by GrenadeLauncher (5083 posts) -

Don't worry OP. Undead Labs will save the Xbone!

@timbers_WSU said:

Turn 10 made Polyphony irrelevant. That is their best dev. Lowest scoring game was an 80 on Metacritic and are considered the best console racing developer. So there it is.

GT6 outscored Flopza Microtransactions 5 on Metacritic. Greenawalt is a loooooooser!

#23 Edited by nhh18 (6538 posts) -

@treedoor said:

@nhh18 said:

People think that naughty dog isn't elite. They just created the biggest new ip of this gen. Unlike uncharted, there is data that backs up that this game has sold tons. A million in its first month. 300k the next month. It was top 10 in every pal for 3 months. It is a super franchise. I wonder how much it sold. It must be at the 5-6 million. With ps4 release it will be at 8 million. They literally created a halo. Uncharted was never a big franchise but the last of us is a huge franchise. I can't imagine seeing the next title not selling 8 million.

Selling 5-6 million does not make it the "biggest new ip of this gen". Not even close.

With used sales it is even higher. Last of us is the first big ip that doesn't have cars in it that sells tons. WIth the ps4 version it will sell 8 million. Like I said, last of us is probably the biggest ip outside of red dead redemption this generation . Quite an accomplishment in my opinion. Naughty Dog is a brand name because of last of us. The same way bungie was because of halo.

#24 Edited by mysticstryk (1700 posts) -

@nhh18:

I won't argue against last of us being one of the best new ips of the past few years, but the game has just barely scratched 4 million sold. Fantastic numbers for a new ip but not the "halo" as you put it.

#25 Posted by mems_1224 (47230 posts) -

@nhh18 said:

@treedoor said:

@nhh18 said:

People think that naughty dog isn't elite. They just created the biggest new ip of this gen. Unlike uncharted, there is data that backs up that this game has sold tons. A million in its first month. 300k the next month. It was top 10 in every pal for 3 months. It is a super franchise. I wonder how much it sold. It must be at the 5-6 million. With ps4 release it will be at 8 million. They literally created a halo. Uncharted was never a big franchise but the last of us is a huge franchise. I can't imagine seeing the next title not selling 8 million.

Selling 5-6 million does not make it the "biggest new ip of this gen". Not even close.

With used sales it is even higher. Last of us is the first big ip that doesn't have cars in it that sells tons. WIth the ps4 version it will sell 8 million. Like I said, last of us is probably the biggest ip outside of red dead redemption this generation . Quite an accomplishment in my opinion. Naughty Dog is a brand name because of last of us. The same way bungie was because of halo.

lol not in the same way. Halo CE and Halo completely redefined FPS games on consoles and changed the industry. TLOU, while a great game, did none of that.

#26 Edited by the_bi99man (11047 posts) -

@navyguy21 said:

Also, MS has invested over a billion in studios and exclusive 2nd party games. Im sure one of them will produce a AAA game.

Well at least you're keeping your hopes down. That's probably a good idea.

#27 Edited by stereointegrity (10731 posts) -

343 were the first devs to make an actual halo killer

#28 Edited by Snugenz (11889 posts) -

Turn 10. But i agree with ConanTheStoner, while Sony definitely have the better first party devs between them and MS i wouldn't really consider any of them as top tier when compared to 3rd party devs.

#29 Posted by Ghost120x (3909 posts) -

@stereointegrity: I see what you did there...

Yeah, 343 put the nails in the coffin and buried it.

#30 Posted by Evo_nine (1740 posts) -

well they have titanfall.

That's enough.

btw when Is the last of us 2 being released? I hope soon because if you are relying on that game to make the ps4 worthwhile, it might take a long time.

#31 Posted by GrenadeLauncher (5083 posts) -

@mems_1224 said:

@nhh18 said:

@treedoor said:

@nhh18 said:

People think that naughty dog isn't elite. They just created the biggest new ip of this gen. Unlike uncharted, there is data that backs up that this game has sold tons. A million in its first month. 300k the next month. It was top 10 in every pal for 3 months. It is a super franchise. I wonder how much it sold. It must be at the 5-6 million. With ps4 release it will be at 8 million. They literally created a halo. Uncharted was never a big franchise but the last of us is a huge franchise. I can't imagine seeing the next title not selling 8 million.

Selling 5-6 million does not make it the "biggest new ip of this gen". Not even close.

With used sales it is even higher. Last of us is the first big ip that doesn't have cars in it that sells tons. WIth the ps4 version it will sell 8 million. Like I said, last of us is probably the biggest ip outside of red dead redemption this generation . Quite an accomplishment in my opinion. Naughty Dog is a brand name because of last of us. The same way bungie was because of halo.

lol not in the same way. Halo CE and Halo completely redefined FPS games on consoles and changed the industry. TLOU, while a great game, did none of that.

TBH I'd be more than happy to see the end of the regenerating health/2 weapons only era Halo ushered in.

#32 Edited by APiranhaAteMyVa (2902 posts) -

Doesn't matter, when they can acquire games like Mass Effect, Bioshock, Gears of War, Left 4 Dead, Titanfall and Oblivion they don't need one. Just get top tier devs to make a game exclusive whether it be for a year or until the sequels release (yes I know these games are on PC too, but they aren't or atleast not for a year on PS3/4 and that is more important to someone choosing between two consoles).

#33 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16617 posts) -

@hrt_rulz01 said:

They have 343i, Turn 10, Rare, Lionhead etc. Whether they're "top tier" is a matter of opinion I guess. I rate them highly.

What games have Rare made the past years that you would rate highly ?

I'm not flaming or anything, but being a huge Rare fan myself, I can't think of anything. So I'm just wondering.

#34 Posted by Karpetburnz (548 posts) -

@mems_1224: Halo set a new standard for FPS on consoles, and The Last of Us set a new standard for story telling in video games. you might say that The Last of Us has no impact on video games now, but in the next few years, we will see many games like The Last of Us.

#35 Posted by speedfreak48t5p (8122 posts) -

Turn 10

/thread

#36 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151379 posts) -

@ConanTheStoner said:

@Sweenix said:

@ConanTheStoner said:

You could say the same about Sony, really. Unless your definition of top tier is a bit lenient.

I'm talking about Dev not devs, and naughty dog are one of the finest devs out there, so you cant say the same about sony.

When I think top tier, I'm thinking something like top 5 at most. ND has had a couple of flashes in the pan over the years and are certainly poised to become a formidable power-house going forward, but I just don't view them as top tier right now.

If we're only limiting this to the scope of 1st party devs, then sure.

Oh come on now. Your bias is showing. ND is good. No need to pretend otherwise....

#37 Edited by freedomfreak (40883 posts) -

Turn 10.

#38 Edited by destroyerman455 (112 posts) -

Naughty Dog put out TLOU and Uncharted, I really wouldn't put them in Top Tier simply because of a couple of games. They're a good dev team, don't get me wrong, but some people seem to have blasted them out of proportion to others.

Microsoft has Turn 10 which is pretty much the same, but it all comes down to preference and opinion in the end.

#39 Edited by StriateEnd (497 posts) -

@destroyerman455 said:

Naughty Dog put out TLOU and Uncharted, I really wouldn't put them in Top Tier simply because of a couple of games. They're a good dev team, don't get me wrong, but some people seem to have blasted them out of proportion to others.

Microsoft has Turn 10 which is pretty much the same, but it all comes down to preference and opinion in the end.

Fuking hell mate. Did you just start gaming this gen? Crash Bandicoot and Jak&Daxter are some of the best 3d platformers ever. Probably THE best if we aren't counting Nintendo ones.

I wouldn't call Turn 10 "top tier" due to Forza 5. "Top tier" devs have range. They've only done simulators and one arcadey racer. More like a top dev in their very specific genre. And even then, Polyphony are just as good if not better (GT 6 being on last gen hardware and is regarded as the better racing simulator speaks volumes about the talent they still have).

Fact is, MS do not have a top tier dev. Imo, top tier = devs that can tackle multiple genres, put out GOTY worthy games and have experience.

#40 Edited by kuu2 (7359 posts) -

@lamprey263 said:

they don't need them if they can just hire good studios to do work for them

Exactly!!!!

Why keep over head and burn cash when you can just hire a dev and publish it under your label???

Can someone explain the difference in hiring Double Helix as opposed to housing a dev like NDog? I think devs have a shelf life mostly, meaning that eventually they run out of innovative juice.

989 studios were a good example and we will also see if Bungie has anything left I am skeptical of Borderlands 3.......I mean Destiny.

#41 Edited by hoosier7 (3843 posts) -

@kuu2 said:

@lamprey263 said:

they don't need them if they can just hire good studios to do work for them

Exactly!!!!

Why keep over head and burn cash when you can just hire a dev and publish it under your label???

Can someone explain the difference in hiring Double Helix as opposed to housing a dev like NDog? I think devs have a shelf life mostly, meaning that eventually they run out of innovative juice.

989 studios were a good example and we will also see if Bungie has anything left I am skeptical of Borderlands 3.......I mean Destiny.

Naughty Dog have produced high quality titles for three generations now, when are they going to run out? Going multiplat often offers a lot so there's never a guarantee with what you suggest of keeping even a sequel on your console exclusively.

Anyway i don't consider Turn 10 "top tier". An 80 rated title that's lower than GT6's score isn't the hallmark of a top tier dev.

#42 Posted by timbers_WSU (5753 posts) -

@R4gn4r0k said:

@hrt_rulz01 said:

They have 343i, Turn 10, Rare, Lionhead etc. Whether they're "top tier" is a matter of opinion I guess. I rate them highly.

What games have Rare made the past years that you would rate highly ?

I'm not flaming or anything, but being a huge Rare fan myself, I can't think of anything. So I'm just wondering.

Rare's last great game was Kameo and before that probably Conker or Jet Force Gemini. They are not as good as they once were but they probably have more highly rated games than anyone not named Nintendo under the Rare name.
.

#43 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16788 posts) -

I'd say they lack any sort of high quality dev. Zero of their exclusives interest me, except MAYBE Titanfall but I'm not big into MP so that's out the window.

#44 Edited by I_can_haz (6551 posts) -

Nope, and they never will with the way they are heading.

#45 Posted by kuu2 (7359 posts) -
@hoosier7 said:

@kuu2 said:

@lamprey263 said:

they don't need them if they can just hire good studios to do work for them

Exactly!!!!

Why keep over head and burn cash when you can just hire a dev and publish it under your label???

Can someone explain the difference in hiring Double Helix as opposed to housing a dev like NDog? I think devs have a shelf life mostly, meaning that eventually they run out of innovative juice.

989 studios were a good example and we will also see if Bungie has anything left I am skeptical of Borderlands 3.......I mean Destiny.

Naughty Dog have produced high quality titles for three generations now, when are they going to run out? Going multiplat often offers a lot so there's never a guarantee with what you suggest of keeping even a sequel on your console exclusively.

Anyway i don't consider Turn 10 "top tier". An 80 rated title that's lower than GT6's score isn't the hallmark of a top tier dev.

More lunacy........

But you didn't answer the question. What is the difference between devs like Turn 10, Double Helix, as compared to ND? They all do the same thing in essence.

#46 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16617 posts) -

@timbers_WSU said:

Rare's last great game was Kameo and before that probably Conker or Jet Force Gemini. They are not as good as they once were but they probably have more highly rated games than anyone not named Nintendo under the Rare name.

.

Many people say they turned to shit after leaving Nintendo, but I disagree. The conker remake was great and I really enjoyed Kameo, Viva Pinata and Nuts and Bolts on 360.

Unfortunately they have only made Kinect games after that which is a giant waste of their talent. I don't see them making anything worthwhile any time soon... :(

#47 Posted by foxhound_fox (88660 posts) -

Comparing Naughty Dog to Nintendo EAD.

Oh god, my stomach, it hurts.

#48 Posted by GrenadeLauncher (5083 posts) -

@kuu2 said:

@lamprey263 said:

they don't need them if they can just hire good studios to do work for them

Exactly!!!!

Why keep over head and burn cash when you can just hire a dev and publish it under your label???

Can someone explain the difference in hiring Double Helix as opposed to housing a dev like NDog? I think devs have a shelf life mostly, meaning that eventually they run out of innovative juice.

989 studios were a good example and we will also see if Bungie has anything left I am skeptical of Borderlands 3.......I mean Destiny.

Someone sounds upset that Bungie went multiplat.

#49 Posted by foxhound_fox (88660 posts) -

@hoosier7 said:

Naughty Dog have produced high quality titles for three generations now [...]

Wut?

  • Crash Bandicoot
  • Jak & Daxter
  • Uncharted
  • The Last of Us

High production values and critical acclaim does not a good game make.

#50 Posted by MrXboxOne (743 posts) -

@Sweenix said:

Nintendo has EAD and Sony has Naughty dog, But honestly, does microsoft have a dev that can even come close?

But sony doesn't have a top tier franchise. Halo is the best selling franchise of last gen by a mile and no franchise brings in the money that halo does.