Microsoft, change your strategy, or drop out (long read)

#251 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150289 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:

@-RocBoys9489- said:

HAHAHAHAHA please GTFO and stop pretending you're some know it all. It's all about PREFERENCE. Stop please...just stop Mr. 100k posts. I'm sure MS will release some LBP rip off so you can stop crying that they have no variety.

I don't like Killzone. I don't like Uncharted. I don't like inFamous. Why the fuck would I throw $400 down the drain for a PS4? But do I understand why some people would? Yea. Oh, gotta get Drive Club! Said nobody ever.

So, in conclusion, NOT EVERYONE IS YOU EITHER YOU STUPID FUCK. Carry on.

Well you know someone isn't able to carry on an adult conversation when they resort to insults. PREFERENCE? We weren't talking about preference. We were talking about the problems MS has. Look at their sales numbers compared to the competition and tell me there isn't a problem. I bet you MS knows it. That's why they have been scrambling this gen. Price drops...kinect drop....buying a timed exclusive for a game they were getting anyway.....but bury your head. And you won't have the choice for PREFERENCE soon if MS doesn't right the ship.

I never told you to buy the PS4. I don't give a rat's ass what you buy. But obviously a bigger demographic IS. And that is a problem for MS...whether you want to hear it or not.

Jesus, I wasn't aware you were a Fox Business analyst and held stock in these companies! I apologize! Luckily, I don't play sales. As old PS3 fanboys used to say ;) Please, get Sony's cock out of your mouth. Xbox One is going to sell fuckloads this holiday and you'll shut your stupid mouth. Xbox isn't going anywhere pal. Get over it and stop masturbating to the thought of the Xbox brand getting sold off to another company.

Does reality bother you? Whether you want to admit it or not sales and profits are most important to a gaming company. One can have a dream and a vision but money talks. Without money....it's just dreams and visions.

And one of your biggest problems is taking any little criticism of MS and whining about fan boys. As I said before I have BOTH PREVIOUS MS CONSOLES. Do you need a nap or something? You seem cranky.

#252 Edited by Zelda187 (715 posts) -

@-RocBoys9489- said:

@Silverbond said:

@Silverbond said:

Someone aware me on the PS4's AAAEs

Quoting myself because I am still unaware

PS4 is a waste of $400 right now unless you're a huge Killzone fan and like to replay a single player only game like inFamous many times over. lol. I don't think KIillzone fanboys exist though...

Both the PS4 and the XBone are a waste of money right now.

Where the hell is this great library of games for either one at the moment? Are you saying people should be snatching up XBone's to play shit like Ryse and Dead Rising 3?

Is a port of a 2 year old game like Diablo 3 going to suddenly blow peoples tits off?

#253 Edited by LJS9502_basic (150289 posts) -
#254 Posted by magicalclick (22428 posts) -

@scottpsfan14:

Turn 10 is created by Microsoft.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_10

#255 Posted by -RocBoys9489- (6193 posts) -

Dude...MS is in a much, MUCH better position than Sony was with the PS3 in 2006...They're going to be just fine. They're already making $80 profit on the Kinect bundle, and I'd assume not much less on the $400 model. Money talks, and MS has fuckloads of it to pad themselves with.

#256 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150289 posts) -

Dude...MS is in a much, MUCH better position than Sony was with the PS3 in 2006...They're going to be just fine. They're already making $80 profit on the Kinect bundle, and I'd assume not much less on the $400 model. Money talks, and MS has fuckloads of it to pad themselves with.

FYI....shareholders DO NOT throw money away. A division is expected to generate profit...not take money from other divisions.

#257 Posted by Shewgenja (8444 posts) -

Dude...MS is in a much, MUCH better position than Sony was with the PS3 in 2006...They're going to be just fine. They're already making $80 profit on the Kinect bundle, and I'd assume not much less on the $400 model. Money talks, and MS has fuckloads of it to pad themselves with.

Yeah, that worked so well for WebTV and Zune. Piles of money. Always an Instant Win button.

*headdesk*

#258 Posted by -RocBoys9489- (6193 posts) -

@-RocBoys9489- said:

Dude...MS is in a much, MUCH better position than Sony was with the PS3 in 2006...They're going to be just fine. They're already making $80 profit on the Kinect bundle, and I'd assume not much less on the $400 model. Money talks, and MS has fuckloads of it to pad themselves with.

FYI....shareholders DO NOT throw money away. A division is expected to generate profit...not take money from other divisions.

Xbox isn't its own division. Get a clue.

#259 Posted by clr84651 (5364 posts) -

@RR360DD said:

@clr84651 said:

The fact is that the gaming community is better off when Sony is doing better than MS.

Proof; Sony forced MS to not do DRM, used game fees, & mandatory kinect which all make gaming better for the consumer.

Sony brought Bluray discs into gaming which both now use and are better for gaming.

That was natural evolution. It was happening with or without Sony. All Sony did was shoehorn it in early and force gamers to pay for it when it benefited games in no way last gen.

MS started this online charging BS which Sony now does in order to compete against MS. Bad for gamers.

Having a good online service is good for gamers. And having a good online service doesn't come free. Sorry, but stop acting so entitled. If you're happy with a free, garbage service then go buy a Wii U.

Point is when MS is successful at something that's bad for the gamer like charging for online then it becomes standard.

Point is, you're talking out your ass. MS was successful last gen and it really pushed Sony. The difference between the PS3 at the start of the gen and the end is astounding. Even going further than the, Sony took the ideas that made the 360 so successful and built the pS4 around it (Social online service / OS, developer friendly etc)

When Sony is successful at something like stopping DRM, used game fees, or mandatory camera then it's good for gamers.

MS has you convinced or you've convinced yourself? I paid to play on the first Xbox & for my 360. MS is just after money. They did it for $$$.

There was no reason to charge for online on the first Xbox & barely any for the 360. There's still no reason for Sony or MS to be charging except for $$$. MS is pushing gaming in a more controlled and expensive direction. Sony is slowing that down a lot. Stopped their DRM, used game fees, & mandatory Kinect. You can and will continue to defend corporate greed, but you're wrong as usual.

#260 Posted by Spitfire-Six (501 posts) -
#261 Posted by -RocBoys9489- (6193 posts) -

@Zelda187 said:

@-RocBoys9489- said:

@Silverbond said:

@Silverbond said:

Someone aware me on the PS4's AAAEs

Quoting myself because I am still unaware

PS4 is a waste of $400 right now unless you're a huge Killzone fan and like to replay a single player only game like inFamous many times over. lol. I don't think KIillzone fanboys exist though...

Both the PS4 and the XBone are a waste of money right now.

Where the hell is this great library of games for either one at the moment? Are you saying people should be snatching up XBone's to play shit like Ryse and Dead Rising 3?

Is a port of a 2 year old game like Diablo 3 going to suddenly blow peoples tits off?

I snatched the Xbox One up just for that Halo Collection. Shit's like the Netflix of gaming bro. Other than that, all my gaming time is going to the PC, while the living room media is running through the Xbox.

#262 Posted by Spitfire-Six (501 posts) -

PlayStations’ rise to fame came mostly based on the technology bump from cartridge to CD-ROM. Ps1 didn’t have any exclusives everything was based on third party support. Third parties were willing to play ball with Sony primarily because they knew the benefits of Cd games versus cartridge. Ps2 came along and still worked with ps1 games, which still help keep people developing for the consoles.

In 2005 Sony started acquiring studios and along with studios come titles obviously. Gorilla Games, 989 studios, zipper interactive, evolution studios, bigbig, incognito, Media molecule. Sucker punch, sce Liverpool, sce Cambridge, I know im missing some but here is my point. Sony didn’t purchase limited exclusives from these companies Sony bought them out. That gives them a library of titles that cannot be compared to anyone. I would say it reminds me of Google and their pursuit of patents so that they can fight off apple lawsuits.

There are some cases where Sony may have sold a studio but point it took a long time for Sony to develop its library and Sony is a very aggressive company. If your going to be competitive in todays game market you must have lots of money otherwise there is no benefit to develop for you, now think of all the game studios Sony owns, now we know this was the most efficient way to build a “first party” library because that’s what Sony did from 2005- current. 7 years.

Now EA, activision, square, Ubi, Konami, Capcom, im not going to sit here and go through everyone of those studios to tell you how many they each own but the point is to know that you can no longer just buy studios because most of them are owned by publishers. The only way to secure titles to set apart your system is to pay for them. The market is booming and no doubt that Microsoft has lots of internal teams at Microsoft Studios, 343, black tusk, Turn 10 but look at that list compared to Sony. Not going to happen. If you sit back and just take shit from Sony they will continue to shit on you they are the top dogs in an industry Nintendo built. You don’t just take an industry from Nintendo by accident Sony is very aggressive and you must match or exceed that to be successful or even gain a foot hole.

#263 Posted by -RocBoys9489- (6193 posts) -

I can't find any data about the Xbox brand and its financial statements. Everything is grouped together in their Entertainment and Devices division, which has included and includes Zune, Skype, Surface, and Windows phone. From what I can find though, the 360 was highly profitable and made back all of its R&D costs plus other expenses, unlike the disaster that the original Xbox was from (I believe) Nvidia.

#264 Posted by Desmonic (13382 posts) -

I can't find any data about the Xbox brand and its financial statements. Everything is grouped together in their Entertainment and Devices division, which has included and includes Zune, Skype, Surface, and Windows phone. From what I can find though, the 360 was highly profitable and made back all of its R&D costs plus other expenses, unlike the disaster that the original Xbox was from (I believe) Nvidia.

Let's put it this way:

Investors only want to sell in two situations (usually):

a) When it doesn't give them any money;

b) When a full sale may give them more money than a longtime ownership.

The recent claims of wanting to sell the Xbox brand by investors were not due to option b).

Quick example: "Xbox is cool,” Sherlund wrote, “but by our estimates Microsoft has not made money at this.” . Here is another article on that, already with the new CEO. Add the previous link which showed numbers still $3 billion in the red, despite having not lost any money during the X360 years, and you know something is "wrong". They still haven't balenced out their overal Xbox brand spendings. Neither has Sony with the PS3 spendings (though unlike MS, Sony has no magical cash cow called Windows). It's just how it is.

#265 Posted by freedomfreak (39100 posts) -

Yeah, Microsoft needs to get some proper in-house developers.

They got Rare, and I know "THEY'RE HORRIBLE NOW". Well, I won't go that far. They've just not been giving proper opportunities. Not to mention Microsoft could hire some fresh talent, and make that studio great again.

But they won't....

#266 Posted by Desmonic (13382 posts) -

Dude...MS is in a much, MUCH better position than Sony was with the PS3 in 2006...They're going to be just fine. They're already making $80 profit on the Kinect bundle, and I'd assume not much less on the $400 model. Money talks, and MS has fuckloads of it to pad themselves with.

$80? Don't buy it.

They were making $20-$25 just 9 months ago (you know, when it launched). No way the profits per unit increased that much in mere months. Unless you have some info we ALL missed.

#267 Posted by darkangel115 (1505 posts) -

well according to wikipedia

Sony has 16 1st party studios currently

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment

Microsoft Studios contains 26 1st party studios worldwide, 17 for game development (343 Industries, Rare, Lionhead, Turn 10, Twisted Pixel, Black Tusk, etc) and 9 for non-game development:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Game_Studios

So MS actually has more 1st party studios then Sony does despite Sony having a head start.

here is a list of studios that Sony has closed down (from the same link)

Internal Studios

Independent developers

GG was founded in 2000, their 1st game was multiplatform, then sony purchased them.

in 2006 Sony purchased Zipper who made the socom series as an independent dev, Then closed them down 6 years later

In 2007 they brought bigbig studios who made a PsP game for sony as an indie dev. tehn closed them 5 years later

Sony has shut down 8 studios in the past 8 years. That made franchises from twisted metal to wipeout to socom to MAG etc.

Sucker punches 1st game was on N64 in 1999. Sony money hatted them for exclusives then purchased them in 2011

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCE_Worldwide_Studios

So yeah, all companies do that. MS hasn't been the only company to mishandle devs. Sony has money hatted several exclusives from independent companies like MS, They have purchased studios and closed them down a few years later, they have classic IPs that are ignored. People here need a history lesson in gaming. I'm willing to bet the average age here had a PS1 as their 1st console.

#268 Edited by LJS9502_basic (150289 posts) -

@-RocBoys9489- said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@-RocBoys9489- said:

Dude...MS is in a much, MUCH better position than Sony was with the PS3 in 2006...They're going to be just fine. They're already making $80 profit on the Kinect bundle, and I'd assume not much less on the $400 model. Money talks, and MS has fuckloads of it to pad themselves with.

FYI....shareholders DO NOT throw money away. A division is expected to generate profit...not take money from other divisions.

Xbox isn't its own division. Get a clue.

Gaming division dude. Get a clue.

#269 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150289 posts) -

@darkangel115: You know that comes out to one more game studio? And one is for tablets and one is for mobile.....subtract those out...they aren't making Xbox games....now we're down to 14. I'm really not sure what the description pioneering experiences on hardcore games means so that may or may not need to be subtracted. I'm not sure if it actually makes games.

#270 Posted by -RocBoys9489- (6193 posts) -

http://www.geekwire.com/2012/microsofts-entertainment-division-diverse-profitable/

Ok, so in a nutshell, the Xbox brand is doing very well and is quite profitable. The dip down to the red in March 2012 was due to the $2 Billion acquisition of Nokia and then the R&D costs of the new Xbox.

#271 Posted by darkangel115 (1505 posts) -

@darkangel115: You know that comes out to one more game studio? And one is for tablets and one is for mobile.....subtract those out...they aren't making Xbox games....now we're down to 14. I'm really not sure what the description pioneering experiences on hardcore games means so that may or may not need to be subtracted. I'm not sure if it actually makes games.

Same goes for sony's 16 as well. some are mobile/Vita. But it appears they are now shifting them away form that to make PS4 games. Point is, give or take, they have a similar number of studios. Its not completely lopsided as some here would believe. By the way people talk, you'd think MS has 3-4 studios and sony has 50, thats hardly the case.

Also building a studio from scratch isn't an easy task. Its not something that MS or Sony has done much at all. They acquire studios who are open to a buy out. Some studios aren't. Epic wasn't, insomniac wasn't, crytek is in financial trouble but don't see like they want to be purchased. opportunities to buy studios are few and far between, defiantly more so today then it was 10 years ago. finding 80-100 talented game makers to make a "small" studio then allow them 4-5 years to make their 1st game is well over 30 million and a huge risk.

#272 Edited by Desmonic (13382 posts) -

http://www.geekwire.com/2012/microsofts-entertainment-division-diverse-profitable/

Ok, so in a nutshell, the Xbox brand is doing very well and is quite profitable. The dip down to the red in March 2012 was due to the $2 Billion acquisition of Nokia and then the R&D costs of the new Xbox.

What you continue to not get, is that the $3 Billion didn't originate with the X360. They didn't lose money with that console, they actually made some back. The original Xbox however was a financial disaster. And to this day, even with all the money the X360 made, they still haven't caught up with that.

The Nokia purchase wouldn't appear as a loss for the Entertainment Division btw. Acquisitions are usually "relegated" to the "mother branch" rather than the subsequent branches (Entertainment, software, R&D, whatever).

#273 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150289 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:

@darkangel115: You know that comes out to one more game studio? And one is for tablets and one is for mobile.....subtract those out...they aren't making Xbox games....now we're down to 14. I'm really not sure what the description pioneering experiences on hardcore games means so that may or may not need to be subtracted. I'm not sure if it actually makes games.

Same goes for sony's 16 as well. some are mobile/Vita. But it appears they are now shifting them away form that to make PS4 games. Point is, give or take, they have a similar number of studios. Its not completely lopsided as some here would believe. By the way people talk, you'd think MS has 3-4 studios and sony has 50, thats hardly the case.

Also building a studio from scratch isn't an easy task. Its not something that MS or Sony has done much at all. They acquire studios who are open to a buy out. Some studios aren't. Epic wasn't, insomniac wasn't, crytek is in financial trouble but don't see like they want to be purchased. opportunities to buy studios are few and far between, defiantly more so today then it was 10 years ago. finding 80-100 talented game makers to make a "small" studio then allow them 4-5 years to make their 1st game is well over 30 million and a huge risk.

Well I used the same source for both.....nothing under Sony was listed as tablets or mobile. So that's why I didn't subtract any. Vita is a viable platform dude. I wouldn't subtract that out in any case.

Last gen in the waning years of the 360 gen....how many exclusives did MS have? And why do you feel the need to compare them to Sony? If you do that then you have to compare demand, sales, regional penetration. In all those areas MS is lacking.

30 million is less than MS spent on the NFL fiasco. And probably less than they spend for timed exclusive such as TR. There are many hungry people that would jump at the chance to join a game studio. I don't buy that it's that hard. Anyway the point is how many exclusives. I mean one of your MS studios is working on Sesame Street. Is that really going to move consoles?

#274 Posted by -RocBoys9489- (6193 posts) -

http://www.geekwire.com/2012/microsofts-entertainment-division-diverse-profitable/

@-RocBoys9489- said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@-RocBoys9489- said:

Dude...MS is in a much, MUCH better position than Sony was with the PS3 in 2006...They're going to be just fine. They're already making $80 profit on the Kinect bundle, and I'd assume not much less on the $400 model. Money talks, and MS has fuckloads of it to pad themselves with.

FYI....shareholders DO NOT throw money away. A division is expected to generate profit...not take money from other divisions.

Xbox isn't its own division. Get a clue.

Gaming division dude. Get a clue.

There's no such thing as an Xbox gaming division. Which is why its so hard to speculate on how much money the Xbox brand itself makes and loses for MS since all the sales figures are bundled in with other brands/products in Entertainment and Devices. The only major setbacks to the division as a whole that we can speculate on were the buyout of Nokia, Skype, and R&D for the Xbox One. Obviously these were investments and time will tell if they'll pay off. The division as a whole mad billions in profit between 2009 and 2012. The 360 was a major success for MS, nobody can deny that.

#275 Posted by Desmonic (13382 posts) -

http://www.geekwire.com/2012/microsofts-entertainment-division-diverse-profitable/

@LJS9502_basic said:

@-RocBoys9489- said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@-RocBoys9489- said:

Dude...MS is in a much, MUCH better position than Sony was with the PS3 in 2006...They're going to be just fine. They're already making $80 profit on the Kinect bundle, and I'd assume not much less on the $400 model. Money talks, and MS has fuckloads of it to pad themselves with.

FYI....shareholders DO NOT throw money away. A division is expected to generate profit...not take money from other divisions.

Xbox isn't its own division. Get a clue.

Gaming division dude. Get a clue.

There's no such thing as an Xbox gaming division. Which is why its so hard to speculate on how much money the Xbox brand itself makes and loses for MS since all the sales figures are bundled in with other brands/products in Entertainment and Devices. The only major setbacks to the division as a whole that we can speculate on were the buyout of Nokia, Skype, and R&D for the Xbox One. Obviously these were investments and time will tell if they'll pay off. The division as a whole mad billions in profit between 2009 and 2012. The 360 was a major success for MS, nobody can deny that.

No one is denying the X360 was a success.

We're claiming, it's still in the red, which is different.

#276 Posted by darkangel115 (1505 posts) -

@darkangel115 said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@darkangel115: You know that comes out to one more game studio? And one is for tablets and one is for mobile.....subtract those out...they aren't making Xbox games....now we're down to 14. I'm really not sure what the description pioneering experiences on hardcore games means so that may or may not need to be subtracted. I'm not sure if it actually makes games.

Same goes for sony's 16 as well. some are mobile/Vita. But it appears they are now shifting them away form that to make PS4 games. Point is, give or take, they have a similar number of studios. Its not completely lopsided as some here would believe. By the way people talk, you'd think MS has 3-4 studios and sony has 50, thats hardly the case.

Also building a studio from scratch isn't an easy task. Its not something that MS or Sony has done much at all. They acquire studios who are open to a buy out. Some studios aren't. Epic wasn't, insomniac wasn't, crytek is in financial trouble but don't see like they want to be purchased. opportunities to buy studios are few and far between, defiantly more so today then it was 10 years ago. finding 80-100 talented game makers to make a "small" studio then allow them 4-5 years to make their 1st game is well over 30 million and a huge risk.

Well I used the same source for both.....nothing under Sony was listed as tablets or mobile. So that's why I didn't subtract any. Vita is a viable platform dude. I wouldn't subtract that out in any case.

Last gen in the waning years of the 360 gen....how many exclusives did MS have? And why do you feel the need to compare them to Sony? If you do that then you have to compare demand, sales, regional penetration. In all those areas MS is lacking.

30 million is less than MS spent on the NFL fiasco. And probably less than they spend for timed exclusive such as TR. There are many hungry people that would jump at the chance to join a game studio. I don't buy that it's that hard. Anyway the point is how many exclusives. I mean one of your MS studios is working on Sesame Street. Is that really going to move consoles?

I never said vita wasn't viable, but in the same sense, so is mobile?

IN the waning years of the 360, exclusives were pretty thin but in the beginning years they weren't it all even out and is why i subscribe to the "own both" theory. If i have nothing to play on PlayStation, I'll probably have something on xbox and vice versa. The reson i'm comparing it, is becuase the topic of the OP stating how MS should stop moneyhatting 3rd parties and build 1st parties like sony. I showed that Sony and SM are pretty even in the studio department which basically negates his whole argument. The rest of yoru statement isn't relevant to the OP

and Yes as a huge NFL fan, I think the 400 million as of now is a waste of MS's money. The app isn't very good. Unless they can get the NFL season ticket on it and allow me to ditch direcTV the NFL deal isn't that good. But then again direcTV paid 1 billion IIRC to have it per year. As far as TR goes, MS is actually partially funding and co-publishing the game. MS is giving them money to fund development and help with advertising (like they did with titanfall) Based on this new info that surfaced today, i'd relate TR more to titanfall. And lol sesame steet of course it sin't going to push consoles, but some people with kids like myself, might see some value in it. MS and Sony make plenty of shitty games each, I don't feel the need to point it out. Why do you go out of your way to try and discredit MS using your opinion when i posted numbers relevant to the OP? You sound more like a cow then the manticore you present yourself to be.

#277 Edited by Shewgenja (8444 posts) -

I can't find any data about the Xbox brand and its financial statements. Everything is grouped together in their Entertainment and Devices division, which has included and includes Zune, Skype, Surface, and Windows phone. From what I can find though, the 360 was highly profitable and made back all of its R&D costs plus other expenses, unlike the disaster that the original Xbox was from (I believe) Nvidia.

Since you're a fan of insulting people and talking big. How about you sit down and drink this frosty mug of shut the fuck up and let the adults talk now.

#280 Posted by lostrib (34272 posts) -

@-RocBoys9489- said:

http://www.geekwire.com/2012/microsofts-entertainment-division-diverse-profitable/

There's no such thing as an Xbox gaming division. Which is why its so hard to speculate on how much money the Xbox brand itself makes and loses for MS since all the sales figures are bundled in with other brands/products in Entertainment and Devices. The only major setbacks to the division as a whole that we can speculate on were the buyout of Nokia, Skype, and R&D for the Xbox One. Obviously these were investments and time will tell if they'll pay off. The division as a whole mad billions in profit between 2009 and 2012. The 360 was a major success for MS, nobody can deny that.

Remember this the next time you want to talk hit shit to someone when you don't know your busted ass hole from your face. Talk that good shit to daddy and you will get smacked the fuck down.

...why are you so mad?

#281 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150289 posts) -

http://www.geekwire.com/2012/microsofts-entertainment-division-diverse-profitable/

@LJS9502_basic said:

@-RocBoys9489- said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

@-RocBoys9489- said:

Dude...MS is in a much, MUCH better position than Sony was with the PS3 in 2006...They're going to be just fine. They're already making $80 profit on the Kinect bundle, and I'd assume not much less on the $400 model. Money talks, and MS has fuckloads of it to pad themselves with.

FYI....shareholders DO NOT throw money away. A division is expected to generate profit...not take money from other divisions.

Xbox isn't its own division. Get a clue.

Gaming division dude. Get a clue.

There's no such thing as an Xbox gaming division. Which is why its so hard to speculate on how much money the Xbox brand itself makes and loses for MS since all the sales figures are bundled in with other brands/products in Entertainment and Devices. The only major setbacks to the division as a whole that we can speculate on were the buyout of Nokia, Skype, and R&D for the Xbox One. Obviously these were investments and time will tell if they'll pay off. The division as a whole mad billions in profit between 2009 and 2012. The 360 was a major success for MS, nobody can deny that.

Geekwire? LOL no.

Actually the division is called...Microsoft Games Studios. A division is merely a segment of a company. MGS is under the Devices and Studio Group.

As for the 360 I don't have the financials so I can't say yay or nay.

#283 Posted by Promised_Trini (3584 posts) -

@-RocBoys9489-: Awwww what's wrong kiddo. Parents refuse to buy you a new console?. Did you spill your glass of milk?. Did a PS4 or Sony product come to life and attack you?. There there now Mr. Internet tough guy. No need to insult people behind a computer screen.

#284 Edited by Bigboi500 (29291 posts) -

@lostrib said:

...why are you so mad?

Why haven't you asked the same about Rocboys?

#285 Posted by lostrib (34272 posts) -

@lostrib said:

...why are you so mad?

Why haven't you asked the same about Rocboys?

I didn't see his post. And the response seemed disproportionate in anger to the quoted text

#286 Posted by Bigboi500 (29291 posts) -

@lostrib said:

@Bigboi500 said:

@lostrib said:

...why are you so mad?

Why haven't you asked the same about Rocboys?

I didn't see his post. And the response seemed disproportionate in anger to the quoted text

Seems like Shewgenja is just responding to him in his own ghetto language.

#287 Posted by super600 (30277 posts) -

@clr84651 said:

The fact is that the gaming community is better off when Sony is doing better than MS.

Proof; Sony forced MS to not do DRM, used game fees, & mandatory kinect which all make gaming better for the consumer.

Sony brought Bluray discs into gaming which both now use and are better for gaming.

MS started this online charging BS which Sony now does in order to compete against MS. Bad for gamers.

Point is when MS is successful at something that's bad for the gamer like charging for online then it becomes standard.

When Sony is successful at something like stopping DRM, used game fees, or mandatory camera then it's good for gamers.

MS sucks for the gamer & Sony is good for the gamer.

Sony only cares about your money like MS. They will do anything to get your money.

#288 Posted by Shewgenja (8444 posts) -

@lostrib said:

@Bigboi500 said:

@lostrib said:

...why are you so mad?

Why haven't you asked the same about Rocboys?

I didn't see his post. And the response seemed disproportionate in anger to the quoted text

Ah, yeah, he's been "internet tough guy" for about two pages now. Good stuff. I'll go back to being the typical goofy Shew now. Pinky swear!

#289 Posted by TheEroica (13300 posts) -

Great thread @charizard1605 . We actually had this conversation to a lesser extent on Pedal to the Metal this week. Not quite sure how why Microsoft isn't willing to develop true exclusives and build a brand. Perhaps they see XBL as the cornerstone of the Xboxd and not any one specific game; or perhaps their bean counters just simply suggest a different model, one that sees the investment into true exclusives to be mostly erring on the side of caution. Whichever and whatever it may be, it paints a bland, sterile image of the brand to gamers who are looking for diverse catalogs and chance taking, all in type experiences. I root like hell for the xbox, but Microsoft has to help themselves too sometimes.

#290 Edited by LJS9502_basic (150289 posts) -

@darkangel115 said:

@LJS9502_basic said:


Last gen in the waning years of the 360 gen....how many exclusives did MS have? And why do you feel the need to compare them to Sony? If you do that then you have to compare demand, sales, regional penetration. In all those areas MS is lacking.

30 million is less than MS spent on the NFL fiasco. And probably less than they spend for timed exclusive such as TR. There are many hungry people that would jump at the chance to join a game studio. I don't buy that it's that hard. Anyway the point is how many exclusives. I mean one of your MS studios is working on Sesame Street. Is that really going to move consoles?

I never said vita wasn't viable, but in the same sense, so is mobile?

IN the waning years of the 360, exclusives were pretty thin but in the beginning years they weren't it all even out and is why i subscribe to the "own both" theory. If i have nothing to play on PlayStation, I'll probably have something on xbox and vice versa. The reson i'm comparing it, is becuase the topic of the OP stating how MS should stop moneyhatting 3rd parties and build 1st parties like sony. I showed that Sony and SM are pretty even in the studio department which basically negates his whole argument. The rest of yoru statement isn't relevant to the OP

and Yes as a huge NFL fan, I think the 400 million as of now is a waste of MS's money. The app isn't very good. Unless they can get the NFL season ticket on it and allow me to ditch direcTV the NFL deal isn't that good. But then again direcTV paid 1 billion IIRC to have it per year. As far as TR goes, MS is actually partially funding and co-publishing the game. MS is giving them money to fund development and help with advertising (like they did with titanfall) Based on this new info that surfaced today, i'd relate TR more to titanfall. And lol sesame steet of course it sin't going to push consoles, but some people with kids like myself, might see some value in it. MS and Sony make plenty of shitty games each, I don't feel the need to point it out. Why do you go out of your way to try and discredit MS using your opinion when i posted numbers relevant to the OP? You sound more like a cow then the manticore you present yourself to be.

Well no the vita is a handheld console and not the same as a mobile which I would combine with a tablet.

But are they evening out the beginning of this gen? Look the biggest announcement they made recently was a timed exclusive. Where is the new first party games to get their console base excited for something? I understand having multiple consoles. I do that as well. But specifically here we're talking about the problems MS is having. Not everyone buys multiple consoles....so look at each one separately to see if they can stand alone.

Wouldn't it have been better to use the 400 million to create some game studios? We are talking gaming...right? Should your console really need the nfl app? Really? If the choice is between the two which serves MS better? And remember the NFL...important to the US. Does nothing worldwide. Right....some people have kids and want kids games. I have one as well. But....they get the games on the consoles their parents ultimately choose. Unless they don't game and then they tend to get Nintendo. And I'm not discrediting Nintendo with that. They just make more child friendly games and consoles.

If you think a Sesame Street game discredits MS....then I don't know what to tell you....it just happened to be an IP from their studio. *shrug*

#291 Posted by parkurtommo (26449 posts) -

@kuu2 said:

@charizard1605 said:

@kuu2 said:

Laughable post TC.

If anyone should get out of the console biz its your boys at Nintendo.

Just like Sony should get out of the handheld biz.

MSoft has done just fine and so far this gen they are doing fine considering the mistakes they made early on.

Explain your comments, or don't make them.

Explain your comments or don't make them. Nintendo has done more for console gaming, sold more consoles, and made more money with consoles than Microsoft ever will.

I don't see where Sony's handhelds come into the picture at all.

Actually, I don't see where any of this comes into the picture. Did you read the OP? Do you know what I am talking about?

Explain yourself TC.

MSoft has brought multiplayer gaming to the masses and their contributions to the game industry are unmatched in the last generation. Nintendo still does not have a online infrastructure comparable to even Sony yet. Plus the lack of third party software and compelling first party software is still something they have yet to over come. If you love Zelda , Mario, SSMB, MKart then get a WiiDuex.

My post is no more asinine than yours.

The butt hurt over TR is hilarious and this is another thread whining about it.

Online Multiplayer (on consoles) started with the Dreamcast.Microsoft just streamlined it (maybe).

Regarding the topic in it's entirety... Microsoft will not change, no one will change if they are making money. That's how it works. Complaining is futile. You can complain about games to indie devs on steam forums, but complaining about Microsoft? No one is listening.

#292 Edited by PapaTrop (474 posts) -

If you are a Sony fan of any sort, and can't look at your Playstation 4 without seeing how massively influenced Sony was by Microsoft in designing it, then you should hand over your gamer card immediately and also take off your fanboy goggles.

No Sony fan should want Microsoft to drop out as long as Microsoft remains their biggest competitor in the industry.

#293 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150289 posts) -

@papatrop said:

If you are a Sony fan of any sort, and can't look at your Playstation 4 without seeing how massively influenced Sony was by Microsoft in designing it, then you should hand over your gamer card immediately and also take off your fanboy goggles.

No Sony fan should want Microsoft to drop out as long as Microsoft remains their biggest competitor in the industry.

A black box?

#294 Edited by Shewgenja (8444 posts) -

@papatrop said:

If you are a Sony fan of any sort, and can't look at your Playstation 4 without seeing how massively influenced Sony was by Microsoft in designing it, then you should hand over your gamer card immediately and also take off your fanboy goggles.

No Sony fan should want Microsoft to drop out as long as Microsoft remains their biggest competitor in the industry.

Meh. I call shenanigans. The Xbone is just about every mistake Sony made with the PS3 to a 'T'. In fact, at least the PS3 actually wasn't weaker than the 360.

More complicated to develop for.

Focus on entertainment (Remember Kuturagi infamously calling PS3 the "Entertainment Super Computer"?)

Wrecked Public Relations to gamers.

Wrecked relations with developers by going decidedly anti-Indie policies.

Terrible pricepoint while touting "value" (BluRay, say hi to Kinect. Kinect, say hi to BluRay)

.......................

Fanboy goggles seem to be everyones problem when it comes to the XBone. The truth is, it's backpeddaling at light speed to become some kind of watered down PS4. MS isn't keeping Sony honest anymore. It's time they make way for someone new.

There's too much money to be made in console gaming for there to be a gap. NVidia, Samsung, Apple or maybe even Steambox would all make worthy replacements for the hole that XBox leaves. You can pretty much count on it.

#295 Posted by LJS9502_basic (150289 posts) -

@papatrop said:

If you are a Sony fan of any sort, and can't look at your Playstation 4 without seeing how massively influenced Sony was by Microsoft in designing it, then you should hand over your gamer card immediately and also take off your fanboy goggles.

No Sony fan should want Microsoft to drop out as long as Microsoft remains their biggest competitor in the industry.

Meh. I call shenanigans. The Xbone is just about every mistake Sony made with the PS3 to a 'T'. In fact, at least the PS3 actually wasn't weaker than the 360.

More complicated to develop for.

Focus on entertainment (Remember Kuturagi infamously calling PS3 the "Entertainment Super Computer"?)

Wrecked Public Relations to gamers.

Wrecked relations with developers by going decidedly anti-Indie policies.

Terrible pricepoint while touting "value" (BluRay, say hi to Kinect. Kinect, say hi to BluRay)

.......................

Fanboy goggles seem to be everyones problem when it comes to the XBone. The truth is, it's backpeddaling at light speed to become some kind of watered down PS4. MS isn't keeping Sony honest anymore. It's time they get the fuck out and make way for someone new.

Would be grand to have SEGA back....

#296 Posted by Bigboi500 (29291 posts) -

@papatrop said:

If you are a Sony fan of any sort, and can't look at your Playstation 4 without seeing how massively influenced Sony was by Microsoft in designing it, then you should hand over your gamer card immediately and also take off your fanboy goggles.

No Sony fan should want Microsoft to drop out as long as Microsoft remains their biggest competitor in the industry.

There's no denying that the 360 was influential for current gen. That doesn't mean we should continue to look to the past and toast ghosts. Xbox One just made mistake after mistake, and even though Microsoft did the reactionary (and proper) thing by doing a 180 with their master plan, we as gamers don't owe them anything if what they're currently offering isn't appealing or worth the investment at this time.

I don't wish them failure, but I don't cry in my pillow worrying about their future either. They just don't mean much of anything to me at the present time, one way or the other.

#297 Posted by PapaTrop (474 posts) -

@papatrop said:

If you are a Sony fan of any sort, and can't look at your Playstation 4 without seeing how massively influenced Sony was by Microsoft in designing it, then you should hand over your gamer card immediately and also take off your fanboy goggles.

No Sony fan should want Microsoft to drop out as long as Microsoft remains their biggest competitor in the industry.

There's no denying that the 360 was influential for current gen. That doesn't mean we should continue to look to the past and toast ghosts. Xbox One just made mistake after mistake, and even though Microsoft did the reactionary (and proper) thing by doing a 180 with their master plan, we as gamers don't owe them anything if what they're currently offering isn't appealing or worth the investment at this time.

I don't wish them failure, but I don't cry in my pillow worrying about their future either. They just don't mean much of anything to me at the present time, one way or the other.

No doubt, but the point is that Microsoft was there to get Sony to pull their heads out of their asses with the PS4.

And now Sony is helping Microsoft pull their heads out of their asses as well.

Imagine if one or the other was gone? We would have crap.

#298 Edited by KingsofQueens (2170 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:

@KingsofQueens said:

@Gatman32 said:

Who gives a shit, if you don't like the console don't buy it. Simple as that.

Exactly

What a stupid statement. Seriously? Well I guess if you two would rather the public abandon the console and then watch MS pull out of the industry it's not stupid....but if you want to continue to game on an MS console you should be very concerned with what is going on this gen.

It was terrible when SEGA left the hardware market....one of the most innovative console makers ever. So I can't understand why someone that likes the company thinks they should continue down this path losing sales and everything will be a okay in Xbox land. It won't. It won't exist.

As someone that wants the opportunity to play any and all games available that strike my interest and has multiple consoles connected in my house.....I can tell you that looking objectively over the last several years and the new gen that MS is not a slam dunk this generation. Most of the games I want are multi plats on the Xbox brand. Their big three don't really interest me. Why don't they have variety in first party games? I don't need their console if they can't offer me that. Nintendo has Nintendo games. Can't get them anywhere else. Sony will end up with the same third party games as MS plus DOES have first party games worth playing that are only on Sony. THAT'S how you run your console. Yeah have all the AAA third party games PLUS here's some more you can't get anywhere else.

And the larger the gap becomes between the two the easier it is to ignore the console totally for third parties. Or at least just give them some token game. They tend to ignore Nintendo now and it hasn't hurt them.

Rah rah cheer lead all you want....but at the end of the day it's to the detriment of the brand.

LOL, how's it a stupid statement? If you bothered reading what I posted before, you'd understand what I'm talking about. The "Exactly" is meant for morons, who bitch, moan and whine about the XBOX platform. Like I said and bolstering what Gatman32 said, and even YOU said it YOURSELF, if you don't like the console, then don't buy it! If it offers absolutely nothing that interests YOU, then don't buy it. And yes I will continue to game on the XBOX platform.

Providing the whiny masses with 1st party games on the XBOX platform isn't MS' job to do so, just for the sake of making gamers happy. MS, like most corporations, are here to make money, and if an IP isn't exactly profitable, MS is not going to invest in it. What they will invest on are profitable and proven IPs, which we all have seen with Halo, Forza, Gears, etc. Yes, it's nice to see new IPs somewhere along the road, but taking a risk in unproven projects isn't exactly practical in the long run. Just look at what Nintendo has done for the past 30+ years with their proven/profitable franchises, they seem to be doing quite well. They don't need to heavily invest in new projects or newer IPs, like what Sony is doing and bleeding, and just look what happened to Resistance, Socom, MAG, Twisted Metal, all games that were hyped to death and once exclusive to the PS platform but not exactly continuing their successes, because the games AREN'T that good, the attach rate isn't there anymore, the devoted fan base isn't there. At least Halo, Forza are still viable and still sustainable.

And really, lets be fucking real here, Sony fanboys, most of them, don't exactly support Sony IPs in the long run, at least not the way Nintendo fans or XBOX fans do with the respective franchises on those consoles. They buy 3rd party multiplats. And All they do is brag, hype and boast about them. As I've said before, you play Sony 1st party games once, and usually NEVER play them again.

@Shewgenja said:

Oh yeah, what were we thinking? An installed fanbase of approximately 5M consoles 9 months into the hardware cycle is really showing us that strong position of your rebuttal.

You said it yourself, it's a DOG EAT DOG industry and every time a dog gets eaten, something bigger and better shows up usually. You guys preach this bullshit about gaming needing Microsoft but it's Microsoft that needed gaming AND SPENT A CONSOLE DEBUT TELLING US TO WATCH MORE TV YOU FUCKING TWITS.

LOL, I must have struck a nerve, somebody is BUTTHURT.

The X1 compared to 360 at this similar period, is doing quite well actually. Even better. MS have already reversed their policies, VERY QUICKLY, a complete opposite if you look at the PS3's miserable early months, which took them 2-3 years to get their asses in gear. Get over yourself, that or try cutting down from Kaz's protein milkshakes.

And you DON'T know anything about competition. Indeed its a Dog eat Dog industry and something bigger and better shows up. That's where the Original XBOX came in and took everybody by surprise. Gaming needs competition. Without the original XBOX, your PS platform would not have evolved into what it is today....a console having a HDD, having a decent Online Service (which still pales compared to XBL), having Trophies, having a controller with finally decent "triggers" and having a powerful Hardware. Original XBOX and 360 swept the floor with the PS2 and PS3 in Hardware design. And now, Sony has ditched the Cell. Halo inspired Killzone, a franchise dubbed as the "Halo Killer" and Forza gave GT a run for it's money.

All 3 consoles keep each other in check. All 3 consoles need a symbiotic relationship. If you can't figure that out, same as the rest of you rabid fanboys, then I suggest you guys bury heads up to your asses.

#299 Posted by RR360DD (11598 posts) -

@papatrop said:

If you are a Sony fan of any sort, and can't look at your Playstation 4 without seeing how massively influenced Sony was by Microsoft in designing it, then you should hand over your gamer card immediately and also take off your fanboy goggles.

No Sony fan should want Microsoft to drop out as long as Microsoft remains their biggest competitor in the industry.

Meh. I call shenanigans. The Xbone is just about every mistake Sony made with the PS3 to a 'T'. In fact, at least the PS3 actually wasn't weaker than the 360.

More complicated to develop for.

Focus on entertainment (Remember Kuturagi infamously calling PS3 the "Entertainment Super Computer"?)

Wrecked Public Relations to gamers.

Wrecked relations with developers by going decidedly anti-Indie policies.

Terrible pricepoint while touting "value" (BluRay, say hi to Kinect. Kinect, say hi to BluRay)

.......................

Fanboy goggles seem to be everyones problem when it comes to the XBone. The truth is, it's backpeddaling at light speed to become some kind of watered down PS4. MS isn't keeping Sony honest anymore. It's time they make way for someone new.

There's too much money to be made in console gaming for there to be a gap. NVidia, Samsung, Apple or maybe even Steambox would all make worthy replacements for the hole that XBox leaves. You can pretty much count on it.

He's saying the PS4 was shaped by the 360. And he's right.

"at least the PS3 actually wasn't weaker than the 360."

When has that mattered? In any generation? Yeah, never.

"Fanboy goggles seem to be everyones problem when it comes to the XBone. The truth is, it's backpeddaling at light speed to become some kind of watered down PS4."

Just like how Sony backpeddled with the PS3 (albeit at a much slower rate). Thats the benefit of competition you know. Neither would be backpeddling if the other didn't exist. Watered down? You falling back on hardware again? Because the XOne isn't watered down in any other sense.

This whole make way for someone new stance from cows is a joke. Theres no unwritten rule there can be only 3 console manufacturers. If one of these other companies wanted to create a games console, they'd do it. They don't need to wait for MS to leave. If Xbox leaves, nothing will replace it. Its just a cows wet dream.

#300 Posted by Bigboi500 (29291 posts) -

@KingsofQueens: How exactly can you sit there so assuredly that the Microsoft console brand is invulnerable? The widening of the gap, month after month, is having a negative effect. Dreamfall is just one recent example of Microsoft losing third party games.

Nintendo can get away with not having third party support because their in-house devs are so deep, unlike Microsoft. Throwing money at a problem wont work anymore if the user base is laughable in respect to the competition. Microsoft isn't Nintendo, they can't fall back on first party games when they don't have any and haven't invested money in building them.

Microsoft doesn't have a safety net in their gaming division.