McShea was right on TLOU: Left Behind

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#1 Edited by drekula2 (1906 posts) -

Yes, I'm counting you to write " LOL MCSHAY'S A PEDOPHILE!". I just hope there's enough reasonable people on here to have a decent discussion.

As someone who loved The Last of Us and gave it my personal game of the year, the DLC helped me acknowledged the main game's flaws. With Joel's absence, the DLC had imagination, personality and context to the stealth action the main game never had. For example, using echolocation stealth for a water-gun fight is something I would never expect any company to do unless their IP sells 3+ million copies first.

The main game felt like "clear a hallway full of enemies and then watch a cutscene". I'm not suggesting the player should have agency over the story, but the player is only able to communicate with a gun (much like Gordon Freeman and Booker Dewitt). The combat is great and the story is great, but the two often feel forced together.

I don't think Joel was entirely a bad person and I don't think his inclusion in the main game was inherently wrong, but he does conveniently line up with the interests of mainstream typical AAA meathead-loving gamers that wouldn't give any game that tried to get too creative a chance. Joel was fearless in a scary world. Joel was overwhelmingly strong in a world that is supposed to overwhelm the player.

I don't agree with McShea that Joel was unrelateable or an awful person but Joel is a tried-and-true recipe and while there's way more depth to him than the average meathead action hero, his inclusion did make the game more of a "guy pummeling dozens of zombies to get to the next level" than it should've been.

#2 Posted by Sweenix (5398 posts) -

McShea is always right

#3 Edited by Chutebox (36748 posts) -

I disagree with just about everything you said about Joel. But I'm on my phone and don't feel like typing in this, so I'll leave it at that. Good luck with an actual conversation on here though

#4 Posted by supa_badman (16626 posts) -

joel was an asshole

#5 Posted by Zaraxius (205 posts) -

The DLC was pretty bad for the most part. It does tend to build a relationship in a more realistic way, but I don't care because it's boring as hell. It's like a couple of poorly made mini-games haphazardly strung together.

It wasn't an "emotional experience," it was just another pretentious, overpriced "game." That being said, there were some good moments, but all in all, it was far worse than the main campaign.

#6 Edited by XboxDone74 (2047 posts) -

Wow. You're wrong....on everything.

Get a ps3, son, so you can play the game.

#7 Edited by megaspiderweb09 (3686 posts) -

You have a point about Joel being a canon fodder for telling the story of Ellie, but he was not an empty shell either. He had a story, a strong one at that, he was not a nice guy, cannot be and he actually was never alone throughout the journey except for Winter, he always had Tess, Bill and Ellie around him to compliment his witt for surviving crazy odds. At the end of the day, Joel turned out to be some sort of a villian than the hero, open interepretation if you wish

#8 Posted by Basinboy (11068 posts) -

Couldn't disagree with you more. Successfully building a character who happens to market to the mainstream trends shouldn't be a knock on a game's design. Joel is a far more complex character and sizing him up as the "meathead" protagonist is a complete misreading of his identity.

#9 Edited by MirkoS77 (7208 posts) -

Joel wasn't overwhelmingly strong in a scary world, he was a hardened veteran in it when we took control after the intro. The intro showed him very vulnerable and frightened just as anyone would be. You have to keep in mind that 20 years had passed after the prologue. Sure, it was a scary world, but it was a world Joel had become accustomed to. He had been a hunter and smuggler. He's not really a good person.

And if you're playing on survivor, Joel is extremely vulnerable. He's just hardened himself to the situation he's in. I found his characterization throughout the whole game to be very believable and accurate.

#10 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10542 posts) -

Who a character is in cutscenes doesn't matter. Its a game, so who is Joel in Gameplay ?

Well, he's a muderer and a hoarder. Who occasionally mumbles something about the good old days. Thats Joel: the video game character.

#11 Posted by XboxDone74 (2047 posts) -

Sure do love all the butthurt tlou continues to cause in lems and herms. Gonna be another mgs4. Causing butthurt, years and years to come. Thank you Naughty Dog, Sony, and Lord Kaz.

#12 Edited by always_explicit (2736 posts) -

I think the relationship between Lee and Clementine than I did the relationship between Joel and Ellie. That is despite far less dialogue. Ellie had far more depth than Clementine but the relationship btween Lee and Clem was more convincing.

#13 Edited by speedfreak48t5p (7091 posts) -

Sure do love all the butthurt tlou continues to cause in lems and herms. Gonna be another mgs4. Causing butthurt, years and years to come. Thank you Naughty Dog, Sony, and Lord Kaz.

#14 Posted by Nengo_Flow (9559 posts) -

Whats that?!

You can better tell a story/experience/personal grow of one specific character better when you dont have to worry about other characters in the story line?

You dont say.

#15 Posted by myster_samz (584 posts) -

the last of us and its dlc are the greatest of all time can't wait to play on my VITA SON

#16 Posted by happyduds77 (1449 posts) -

You would have loved the vanilla game if it wasn't downgraded.

#17 Posted by Mcspanky37 (1695 posts) -

Did ND announce her gayness to coincide with this game's release? What a bunch of fucking weirdos. Kids kissing kids? Oh my.

#19 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

I would have done exactly what Joel did. Ellie was his daughter at the end of that the game and all he had left. I would have said screw the world too.

#20 Posted by Joedgabe (5110 posts) -

You know this might actually mean that mcShea just didn't like the Ending of TLOU and that's why it gave it an 8. I mean a lot of people don't agree with the ending, probably most.

#21 Edited by hoosier7 (3780 posts) -

I disagree on your feelings about the main story, certainly didn't just feel like clearing a room of enemies and move on (well maybe with the human players) but with the infected i just wanted to stay as well clear from them as possible. How powerful they were made them scary and made for some very intense moments where i thought i was going to be discovered.

Also Joel certainly wasn't fearless. He fought to not get attached to Ellie for a good amount of the game because of the fear of feeling the pain he did when he lost his daughter. He spent the rest of the game fearing he'd lose her. The ending was far from what a stereotypical main character would do too. Normally it's just the good guy saves the day but the way he potentially doomed the human race because of his own feelings is morally questionable at best.

Whilst he offers something to the meat heads you describe in one small aspect he's got plenty to offer to those who want more in a main character. Plus he's got to be that kind of character to give a contrast and dynamic between him and Ellie.

Also everyone's pretty much well hardened, it's practically the fucking apocalypse, the human race has been decimated so the weak probably aren't still around by this point.