Maybe it's not just a Nintendo problem...

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#101 Posted by nintendoboy16 (26921 posts) -
[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]

[QUOTE="fernandmondego_"] I don't see why they wouldn't. It would be the same game they would make for their own console. Mario Galaxy will be Mario Galaxy on what ever platform.fernandmondego_

I can see why they would. Referring to Nintendo's former rivals at SEGA with the Sonic series.

The original Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast got high praise, the later ports for GameCube, PSN, and XBLA got slammed (why the PC version didn't get reviewed is beyond me, I've played it and it was quite a sloppy port, despite the game being quite fun)

Not to mention, the newer Sonic games, regardless of positive (Sonic Advance series, Sonic Rush series, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations) or negative (Sonic the Hedgehog 06, Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis, Shadow the Hedgehog) were mostly hated on by fans and for a while SEGA got hate for mishandling the Sonic franchise alone after they went third party (before the Bayonetta and Shining Force III YouTube copyright claim controversies came along).

Massive difference.

Nintendo would get just as negative results regardless.
#102 Posted by fernandmondego_ (3170 posts) -
[QUOTE="fernandmondego_"][QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]I can see why they would. Referring to Nintendo's former rivals at SEGA with the Sonic series.

The original Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast got high praise, the later ports for GameCube, PSN, and XBLA got slammed (why the PC version didn't get reviewed is beyond me, I've played it and it was quite a sloppy port, despite the game being quite fun)

Not to mention, the newer Sonic games, regardless of positive (Sonic Advance series, Sonic Rush series, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations) or negative (Sonic the Hedgehog 06, Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis, Shadow the Hedgehog) were mostly hated on by fans and for a while SEGA got hate for mishandling the Sonic franchise alone after they went third party (before the Bayonetta and Shining Force III YouTube copyright claim controversies came along).

nintendoboy16
Massive difference.

Nintendo would get just as negative results regardless.

Doubt it. Plus SEGA is doing pretty well these days.
#103 Posted by WreckEm711 (6922 posts) -
[QUOTE="fernandmondego_"][QUOTE="nintendoboy16"][QUOTE="fernandmondego_"] Massive difference.

Nintendo would get just as negative results regardless.

Doubt it. Plus SEGA is doing pretty well these days.

They closed a bunch of headquarters and offices not too long ago... So... doubt it.
#104 Posted by Ly_the_Fairy (8652 posts) -

It's definitely a Nintendo problem.

#105 Posted by nintendoboy16 (26921 posts) -

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]Nintendo would get just as negative results regardless.fernandmondego_
Doubt it. Plus SEGA is doing pretty well these days.

Because getting s*** for letting Nintendo publish Bayonetta 2, still getting flak for handling Sonic, and false copyright claiming on YouTubers playing, or even talking about Shining Force III in a video CLEARLY implies they're doing well. :roll: Granted, they are getting praise for Virtua Fighter and those Total War games, but the negative outweighs the positive here.


They closed a bunch of headquarters and offices not too long ago... So... doubt it.WreckEm711

Oh yeah, I forgot this.

#106 Posted by fernandmondego_ (3170 posts) -
[QUOTE="fernandmondego_"][QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]Nintendo would get just as negative results regardless.nintendoboy16
Doubt it. Plus SEGA is doing pretty well these days.

Because getting s*** for letting Nintendo publish Bayonetta 2, still getting flak for handling Sonic, and false copyright claiming on YouTubers playing, or even talking about Shining Force III in a video CLEARLY implies they're doing well. :roll: Granted, they are getting praise for Virtua Fighter and those Total War games, but the negative outweighs the positive here.

Are they not profitable these days? You really think they care that some are butthurt because they decided against throwing away money to publish non profitable game? There mistakes were made back when they divided the company into essentially three second-party and instead of going full on third party.
#107 Posted by nintendoboy16 (26921 posts) -

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"][QUOTE="fernandmondego_"] Doubt it. Plus SEGA is doing pretty well these days. fernandmondego_
Because getting s*** for letting Nintendo publish Bayonetta 2, still getting flak for handling Sonic, and false copyright claiming on YouTubers playing, or even talking about Shining Force III in a video CLEARLY implies they're doing well. :roll: Granted, they are getting praise for Virtua Fighter and those Total War games, but the negative outweighs the positive here.

Are they not profitable these days? You really think they care that some are butthurt because they decided against throwing away money to publish non profitable game? There mistakes were made back when they divided the company into essentially three second-party and instead of going full on third party.

What and mishandling their mascot franchise and false-flagging people over ONE GAME (on a dead console, known as the Saturn) weren't mistakes? Those happened WHEN they went third party.

Whether or not they didn't want to publish Bayonetta 2 (or canned it because the first game didn't make them much money), they still took a hit for it regardless, so it still counts.

#108 Posted by fernandmondego_ (3170 posts) -

[QUOTE="fernandmondego_"][QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]Because getting s*** for letting Nintendo publish Bayonetta 2, still getting flak for handling Sonic, and false copyright claiming on YouTubers playing, or even talking about Shining Force III in a video CLEARLY implies they're doing well. :roll: Granted, they are getting praise for Virtua Fighter and those Total War games, but the negative outweighs the positive here.nintendoboy16

Are they not profitable these days? You really think they care that some are butthurt because they decided against throwing away money to publish non profitable game? There mistakes were made back when they divided the company into essentially three second-party and instead of going full on third party.

What and mishandling their mascot franchise and false-flagging people over ONE GAME (on a dead console, known as the Saturn) weren't mistakes? Those happened WHEN they went third party.

Whether or not they didn't want to publish Bayonetta 2 (or canned it because the first game didn't make them much money), they still took a hit for it regardless, so it still counts.

Look, they are not compatible. Nintendo is well off, if they want to burn through their cash reserves they could go ahead and do that. They took a loss last year, expect to take another loss this year and by the looks of the WiiU will probably end up taking their biggest loss next year. If they want to try to turns things around than so be it. Maybe they'll be able to do it.

SEGA on the other hand was strapped for cash when they went third party. On top of that they divided their developers and franchises into 3 and made all their games exclusive to their consoles instead of making them multiplatform across the board. Sonic should have been on all 3 consoles but was exclusive to the GC (the worse selling of the three). They would sold many more copies and made much more money if Sonic was not exclusive. Games like Panzer Dragoon, JSRF and SEGA GT might have seen better results if they were on all three consoels and maybe we would have gotten sequels.

After those mistakes Sammy came along and they sold off VC and took appart and destroyed their developers (Smilebit:cry: ).  If Nintendo was to go 3rd party all they would have to do is keep doing what they are doing, just do it on other platforms.  There are not enough people willing to buy a console for their franchises alone but I'd bet the PS, Xbox and PC userbase would eat up their games if they make them available.  They would have a bigger userbase to sell to, along with their hand held.  

Obviously it's up to them, we'll have to wait and see what happens.

#109 Posted by FireEmblem_Man (8774 posts) -

It's not just a Nintendo problem, it's the industry as a whole.

I guess we can't say anything doom and gloom of the next console game market implosion unless we know more of Sony's and Microsofts next console. Iwata will be relieve of his duty's as Nintendo's Chief and Reggie will be removed as well. It's inevitable

#110 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

I personally don't care if there is not another non-Nintendo published game on the Wii U, as long as it gets quality first party titles for the next 5-7 years. If you are buying a console for anything more than exclusives, you are doing it wrong, imo.PurpleMan5000

Nope. You can buy Sony consoles and get lots of great exclusives as well multiplats. Microsoft has the mulitplats, but really lacking in exclusives. Nintendo has the exclusives with garbage multiplats.

#111 Posted by nintendoboy16 (26921 posts) -

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]

[QUOTE="fernandmondego_"] Are they not profitable these days? You really think they care that some are butthurt because they decided against throwing away money to publish non profitable game? There mistakes were made back when they divided the company into essentially three second-party and instead of going full on third party.fernandmondego_

What and mishandling their mascot franchise and false-flagging people over ONE GAME (on a dead console, known as the Saturn) weren't mistakes? Those happened WHEN they went third party.

Whether or not they didn't want to publish Bayonetta 2 (or canned it because the first game didn't make them much money), they still took a hit for it regardless, so it still counts.

Look, they are not compatible. Nintendo is well off, if they want to burn through their cash reserves they could go ahead and do that. They took a loss last year, expect to take another loss this year and by the looks of the WiiU will probably end up taking their biggest loss next year. If they want to try to turns things around than so be it. Maybe they'll be able to do it.

SEGA on the other hand was strapped for cash when they went third party. On top of that they divided their developers and franchises into 3 and made all their games exclusive to their consoles instead of making them multiplatform across the board. Sonic should have been on all 3 consoles but was exclusive to the GC (the worse selling of the three). They would sold many more copies and made much more money if Sonic was not exclusive. Games like Panzer Dragoon, JSRF and SEGA GT might have seen better results if they were on all three consoels and maybe we would have gotten sequels.

After those mistakes Sammy came along and they sold off VC and took appart and destroyed their developers (Smilebit:cry: ).  If Nintendo was to go 3rd party all they would have to do is keep doing what they are doing, just do it on other platforms.  There are not enough people willing to buy a console for their franchises alone but I'd bet the PS, Xbox and PC userbase would eat up their games if they make them available.  They would have a bigger userbase to sell to, along with their hand held.  

Obviously it's up to them, we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Sonic WASN'T GameCube exclusive. Heroes, Shadow, Riders, and Mega Collection were also on PS2 and XBOX. Regardless of the GameCube's placement though, Sonic remained as one of the best selling third party franchises on there. And on the Wii, it still was (see: Sonic Colors on Wii and DS selling two million), hence why little to no controversy about Colors being Wii/DS exclusive erupted (also due to the fact that SEGA was still getting flak for how they were handling his series, which, again, is one of the reasons why a lot of their own fans hate them)

Here's the other problem, Nintendo's teams are normally suited to working on one platform, each in two categories, both their own. Working on more than one system in the SAME CATEGORY would add to the pressure and help kill their quality, especially with hardware that isn't their own. And no, Nintendo's handhelds would have to die too, because there is no way in HELL Nintendo can survive on just that, even if it is better selling.

Not to mention, PlayStation, XBOX, and PC don't have the same audience Nintendo does so expect Mario/Zelda/Pokemon/Donkey Kong/Kirby games to sell even less than what they did with Nintendo's own systems (ex: Mario and Pokemon would sell 200,000 and Kirby would sell like 50,000)

#112 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

It's not just a Nintendo problem, it's the industry as a whole.

I guess we can't say anything doom and gloom of the next console game market implosion unless we know more of Sony's and Microsofts next console. Iwata will be relieve of his duty's as Nintendo's Chief and Reggie will be removed as well. It's inevitable

FireEmblem_Man

What exactly suggests an industry wide problem and not just a Nintendo fail? This all speculation until the two top dogs release.

#113 Posted by fernandmondego_ (3170 posts) -

[QUOTE="fernandmondego_"]

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]What and mishandling their mascot franchise and false-flagging people over ONE GAME (on a dead console, known as the Saturn) weren't mistakes? Those happened WHEN they went third party.

Whether or not they didn't want to publish Bayonetta 2 (or canned it because the first game didn't make them much money), they still took a hit for it regardless, so it still counts.

nintendoboy16

Look, they are not compatible. Nintendo is well off, if they want to burn through their cash reserves they could go ahead and do that. They took a loss last year, expect to take another loss this year and by the looks of the WiiU will probably end up taking their biggest loss next year. If they want to try to turns things around than so be it. Maybe they'll be able to do it.

SEGA on the other hand was strapped for cash when they went third party. On top of that they divided their developers and franchises into 3 and made all their games exclusive to their consoles instead of making them multiplatform across the board. Sonic should have been on all 3 consoles but was exclusive to the GC (the worse selling of the three). They would sold many more copies and made much more money if Sonic was not exclusive. Games like Panzer Dragoon, JSRF and SEGA GT might have seen better results if they were on all three consoels and maybe we would have gotten sequels.

After those mistakes Sammy came along and they sold off VC and took appart and destroyed their developers (Smilebit:cry: ).  If Nintendo was to go 3rd party all they would have to do is keep doing what they are doing, just do it on other platforms.  There are not enough people willing to buy a console for their franchises alone but I'd bet the PS, Xbox and PC userbase would eat up their games if they make them available.  They would have a bigger userbase to sell to, along with their hand held.  

Obviously it's up to them, we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Sonic WASN'T GameCube exclusive. Heroes, Shadow, Riders, and Mega Collection were also on PS2 and XBOX. Regardless of the GameCube's placement though, Sonic remained as one of the best selling third party franchises on there. And on the Wii, it still was (see: Sonic Colors on Wii and DS selling two million), hence why little to no controversy about Colors being Wii/DS exclusive erupted (also due to the fact that SEGA was still getting flak for how they were handling his series, which, again, is one of the reasons why a lot of their own fans hate them)

Here's the other problem, Nintendo's teams are normally suited to working on one platform, each in two categories, both their own. Working on more than one system in the SAME CATEGORY would add to the pressure and help kill their quality, especially with hardware that isn't their own. And no, Nintendo's handhelds would have to die to, because there is no way in HELL Nintendo can survive on just that, even if it is better selling.

Originally Sonic was exclusive to the GC, it was after SEGA damn near went under and Sammy came along that that changed. Just like JSRF and Panzer Dragoon were on the Xbox and Virtua Fighter and Shinobi were the PS2. There were others but why list them all. Developing a game for multiplatforms is not a problem. Usually they just make it for one system and just port it over to the other. Nintendo would not struggle at all by going multiplatform. No one else seems to have a problem developing for more than one platfrom. Look at Retro, they did fine back when they were multiplatform as Iguana. We're going to just have to agree to disagree.
#114 Posted by Mario1331 (8826 posts) -
Just got to wait until games comes out. When they do and its not helping they need to fix it immediately
#115 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

Just got to wait until games comes out. When they do and its not helping they need to fix it immediatelyMario1331

There is nothing they can fix. Wii U games will look and run like poop and Nintendo is stuck with it for another 5 years.

#116 Posted by Mario1331 (8826 posts) -

[QUOTE="Mario1331"]Just got to wait until games comes out. When they do and its not helping they need to fix it immediatelyStrongBlackVine

There is nothing they can fix. Wii U game will look at run like poop and Nintendo is stuck with it for another 5 years.

Great opinion dude but i they could change te 3ds aroud they could do the same for the wiiu. Its been out for 3 mnths with only launch window games out for it.
#117 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

[QUOTE="Mario1331"]Just got to wait until games comes out. When they do and its not helping they need to fix it immediatelyMario1331

There is nothing they can fix. Wii U game will look at run like poop and Nintendo is stuck with it for another 5 years.

Great opinion dude but i they could change te 3ds aroud they could do the same for the wiiu. Its been out for 3 mnths with only launch window games out for it.

The 3DS doesn't have much competition in niche because Vita is has been a major disappointment. PS4 and Xbox 720 are big leagues and Wii U just won't be able to compete unless the casuals save them again. No core gamer is going to choose the Wii U if they can only afford one platform. Outcome looks bleak...

#118 Posted by FireEmblem_Man (8774 posts) -

[QUOTE="FireEmblem_Man"]

It's not just a Nintendo problem, it's the industry as a whole.

I guess we can't say anything doom and gloom of the next console game market implosion unless we know more of Sony's and Microsofts next console. Iwata will be relieve of his duty's as Nintendo's Chief and Reggie will be removed as well. It's inevitable

StrongBlackVine

What exactly suggests an industry wide problem and not just a Nintendo fail? This all speculation until the two top dogs release.

If the PS4 or Next Xbox is priced above $399.99, then kiss the console industry goodbye. I could be wrong, but we'll wait and see

#119 Posted by Bigboi500 (30106 posts) -

You're sure the "core will buy PS4 and 720 day one" ? I strongly doubt that.

#120 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

inb4 incomming 2nd video game industry crash...

People like to blame the economy but I think it's party the console companies' fault for the lack of general "next-gen" excitement. (outside of the fanboys, that is)

The current consoles are almost eight years old and this is a huge time in the console world.

And the install bases expanded in that time and many people feel content with what they have and some devs also aren't interested in abandoning that consumer base soon.

Secondly, most gamers aren't interested in "gimmicks", hence the news of the next-gen console systems favoring new control methods over muscle power does not resonate with a large part of the consumers.

Thirdly, the PC is so far ahead in hardware muscle that it leaves consoles in the dust and it's also much more open system.

If the next-gen consoles wanted to compete, they would be very expensive and people would rather just get a PC for that money.

Overall I think that ouside of the fanbases, the next-gen consoles could meet a lukewarm reception. (especially if the games will just seem like a little "supped-up" current-gen games and if they'll force motion/touch control to the player)

#121 Posted by Zeviander (9503 posts) -
It's a market problem. The economy is drastically different now than it was 7 years ago.
#122 Posted by Lionheart08 (15436 posts) -

[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

[QUOTE="FireEmblem_Man"]

It's not just a Nintendo problem, it's the industry as a whole.

I guess we can't say anything doom and gloom of the next console game market implosion unless we know more of Sony's and Microsofts next console. Iwata will be relieve of his duty's as Nintendo's Chief and Reggie will be removed as well. It's inevitable

FireEmblem_Man

What exactly suggests an industry wide problem and not just a Nintendo fail? This all speculation until the two top dogs release.

If the PS4 or Next Xbox is priced above $399.99, then kiss the console industry goodbye. I could be wrong, but we'll wait and see

I would like to think that Microsoft and especially Sony learned that people aren't going to bite for an expensive console. If anything, there will probably be another "2 Sku" release from them, the high end version which is $300+ and the gimped versions which floats closer to $300.

#123 Posted by fernandmondego_ (3170 posts) -
It's a market problem. The economy is drastically different now than it was 7 years ago.Zeviander
That's nonsense.
#124 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

It's a market problem. The economy is drastically different now than it was 7 years ago.Zeviander

 

Yet, there is the most rich people today than it ever was...

#125 Posted by LordQuorthon (5350 posts) -

[QUOTE="Zeviander"]It's a market problem. The economy is drastically different now than it was 7 years ago.fernandmondego_
That's nonsense.

Yeah, Zeviander, use small words so System Wars can understand. 

 

 

#126 Posted by Ly_the_Fairy (8652 posts) -

It's a market problem. The economy is drastically different now than it was 7 years ago.Zeviander

The market supports high-end electronics at the present time.

The market does not support low-end electronics with features that are sub-standard to what was available nearly a decade ago, that costs $350, when there are alternatives available for much cheaper.

#127 Posted by KungfuKitten (21143 posts) -

inb4 incomming 2nd video game industry crash...

People like to blame the economy but I think it's party the console companies' fault for the lack of general "next-gen" excitement. (outside of the fanboys, that is)

The current consoles are almost eight years old and this is a huge time in the console world.

And the install bases expanded in that time and many people feel content with what they have and some devs also aren't interested in abandoning that consumer base soon.

Secondly, most gamers aren't interested in "gimmicks", hence the news of the next-gen console systems favoring new control methods over muscle power does not resonate with a large part of the consumers.

Thirdly, the PC is so far ahead in hardware muscle that it leaves consoles in the dust and it's also much more open system.

If the next-gen consoles wanted to compete, they would be very expensive and people would rather just get a PC for that money.

Overall I think that ouside of the fanbases, the next-gen consoles could meet a lukewarm reception. (especially if the games will just seem like a little "supped-up" current-gen games and if they'll force motion/touch control to the player)

nameless12345

So you think maybe that the generation lasted too long and that it caused next gen excitement to fade away? Like they didn't keep the ball rolling? I do kinda feel that way. And like you said, new consoles feel pointless now that the PC's are superior in every way. If they don't have many exclusive offerings then I don't know what there is to be excited about.

#128 Posted by Lucianu (9452 posts) -

The 3DS had no real competition.. The PSV-> :lol: sure you could site smartphones, tablets, ect.. but in the gaming world it had no competition. Enter the Wii-U and it's competing (seemingly) against the 36o/PS3 both of whom still have strong sales.. and with the 720/PS4 looming in the background. You have to wonder.. will lighting strike twice for Nintendo.

EDIT: Oh and Nintendo slashed the price (quite a bit) of the 3DS a mere 6 months after it's launch.  

OhSnapitz

 Everyboby knows lighting won't strike twice since in this day and age it's impossible to pull off a Wii again, especially with this poorly marketed, weak ass system. But Nintendo aren't oblivious, they know. They wont stand still if there's a hint that their console is going to fail, right now it's to early to tell and they have yet to have the games on lock. They pulled a lot of effort seemingly out of nowhere to make the 3DS what it is right now. 

They haven't ben in the business for over 25 years to let a console sink and die out. This isn't having blind faith in them, but listening to my basic common sense here. And i know people are gonna think of SEGA, so scratch that itch off. SEGA was bleeding money trough countless bulletholes produced by previously supporting countless failed ass systems (SEGACD, 32x, Gamegear, Saturn - i love this console, but it failed financially and marketically), the hateful backlash from developers, poor ass marketing, etc. before they even released the Dreamcast, which was their last, and final beacon of hope. Nintendo just got off the succesfull Wii wagon, DS is the highest selling gaming system of all times, and they have the 3DS selling on lock. 

#129 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

wiiu-dies-in-the-swamxdu1e.gif

 

lulz...

#130 Posted by silversix_ (14812 posts) -
of course everyone is rdy for next gen... ppl are ready for next gen for at least two years. The problem is that Nintendo decided to do exactly what they did last gen, release a system with a gen behind tech. How is this next gen? Everyone wants the next advancement and not what we already own for 7 years repacked in a new box and sold for 400$.
#131 Posted by FireEmblem_Man (8774 posts) -

[QUOTE="FireEmblem_Man"]

[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

What exactly suggests an industry wide problem and not just a Nintendo fail? This all speculation until the two top dogs release.

Lionheart08

If the PS4 or Next Xbox is priced above $399.99, then kiss the console industry goodbye. I could be wrong, but we'll wait and see

I would like to think that Microsoft and especially Sony learned that people aren't going to bite for an expensive console. If anything, there will probably be another "2 Sku" release from them, the high end version which is $300+ and the gimped versions which floats closer to $300.

Well Nintendo isn't doing so well with the model you're explaining. To be honest, why would anyone want to buy a gimped model of any console? Sure prices are cheap, but I doubt the Xbox 360 core and Arcade model helped move the 360 over the Wii.

#132 Posted by OhSnapitz (18458 posts) -

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

inb4 incomming 2nd video game industry crash...

People like to blame the economy but I think it's party the console companies' fault for the lack of general "next-gen" excitement. (outside of the fanboys, that is)

The current consoles are almost eight years old and this is a huge time in the console world.

And the install bases expanded in that time and many people feel content with what they have and some devs also aren't interested in abandoning that consumer base soon.

Secondly, most gamers aren't interested in "gimmicks", hence the news of the next-gen console systems favoring new control methods over muscle power does not resonate with a large part of the consumers.

Thirdly, the PC is so far ahead in hardware muscle that it leaves consoles in the dust and it's also much more open system.

If the next-gen consoles wanted to compete, they would be very expensive and people would rather just get a PC for that money.

Overall I think that ouside of the fanbases, the next-gen consoles could meet a lukewarm reception. (especially if the games will just seem like a little "supped-up" current-gen games and if they'll force motion/touch control to the player)

KungfuKitten

So you think maybe that the generation lasted too long and that it caused next gen excitement to fade away? Like they didn't keep the ball rolling? I do kinda feel that way. And like you said, new consoles feel pointless now that the PC's are superior in every way. If they don't have many exclusive offerings then I don't know what there is to be excited about.

Until the PC receives EVERY 3rd party game and is floating around the same price point.. it's not "superior" in every way.
#133 Posted by CastieI (124 posts) -
They released what is, essentially, a more expensive Nintendo specific version of the X360, with a gimmicky controller and no games. It's a Nintendo problem. The other two are reaching market saturation, consumers are ready for next gen, Nintendo failed to deliver it. Their hubris has cost them the ability to lead the market once more, and now we have to wait and see if it's Sony or MS that takes the crown, which will come down to pricing and software.