Mario is Mario regardless of difference in gameplay

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#1 Edited by ImDaMan4Realz (94 posts) -

Sheep like to go around saying that every mario game feels completely different and the only thing they have in common is mario. WRONG. Ignoring the 2d marios which are all exactly like, every mario game feels like mario regardless of the difference in gameplay. The artstyles are all similar, the music is all similar, the stories are all similiar. There is more to a game being different than just gameplay. I know it makes you feel better with the thought that nintendo makes different types of games just with the same characters, artstyle, music, story, and atmosphere, but all mario games feel more alike to eachother than to other platformers.

#2 Posted by PonchoTaco (1905 posts) -

What a derp.

#3 Posted by ImDaMan4Realz (94 posts) -

What a derp

What a derp.

This is the response I was expecting. Nothing to counter ny argument I see.

#4 Posted by Devil-Itachi (4359 posts) -

Okay then.

#5 Edited by Pikminmaniac (8597 posts) -

So THE most important aspect a game can have is different between each installment of a Mario game... Cool. I'm OK with that completely

I would say the big difference between Mario games is the level design. You're whisked off to all new and creative worlds that are all very skillfully designed. That's what's been keeping the franchise fresh.

#6 Edited by PonchoTaco (1905 posts) -
#7 Posted by Zassimick (6162 posts) -

Sheep like to go around saying that every mario game feels completely different and the only thing they have in common is mario. WRONG. Ignoring the 2d marios which are all exactly like, every mario game feels like mario regardless of the difference in gameplay. The artstyles are all similar, the music is all similar, the stories are all similiar. There is more to a game being different than just gameplay. I know it makes you feel better with the thought that nintendo makes different types of games just with the same characters, artstyle, music, story, and atmosphere, but all mario games feel more alike to eachother than to other platformers.

I'll bite. First, why should we ignore 2D Mario games?

Second, the gameplay is the exact thing "sheep" are talking about when saying Mario games are different from one another. Galaxy plays a lot different than 3D World, which plays a lot different than Sunshine, and they all play a lot different than Super Mario World, Super Mario Bros 3, etc.

They share similarities because they are a part of the same franchise, that's not something I have seen people debate. In fact, that's one of the strengths of the franchise. I love seeing Goombas and Koopas running around. That's one of the great things about Super Mario 3D World, seeing enemies from Super Mario World in the environment.

I guess I'm just confused by the argument. There is more to a game than the gameplay, I agree, but the gameplay is what is being debated when Mario games are compared with each other. It is the blend of consistency of elements within the franchise yet making key changes to gameplay while still making it feel like Mario that makes the franchise so endearing.

#8 Edited by farrell2k (5222 posts) -

Mario is Mario. Thank you for that wonderful exercise in kindergarten logic!

#9 Posted by bbkkristian (14771 posts) -

Mario is Mario, Halo is Halo, Uncharted is Uncharted. You'll find that all games of a franchise are substantially similar to one another (mind = blown, right?)

#10 Posted by Wild_man_22 (562 posts) -

3d world and galaxy are actually pretty distinct from one another. Other than the fact that they are both 3d platformers and set in the same universe.

They have different power ups, different map layouts, Different environmental presentations, heck their "stories" are even different.

I dont know what more people want from nintendo in order to distinguish them.

#11 Posted by ImDaMan4Realz (94 posts) -

@imdaman4realz said:

Sheep like to go around saying that every mario game feels completely different and the only thing they have in common is mario. WRONG. Ignoring the 2d marios which are all exactly like, every mario game feels like mario regardless of the difference in gameplay. The artstyles are all similar, the music is all similar, the stories are all similiar. There is more to a game being different than just gameplay. I know it makes you feel better with the thought that nintendo makes different types of games just with the same characters, artstyle, music, story, and atmosphere, but all mario games feel more alike to eachother than to other platformers.

I'll bite. First, why should we ignore 2D Mario games?

Second, the gameplay is the exact thing "sheep" are talking about when saying Mario games are different from one another. Galaxy plays a lot different than 3D World, which plays a lot different than Sunshine, and they all play a lot different than Super Mario World, Super Mario Bros 3, etc.

They share similarities because they are a part of the same franchise, that's not something I have seen people debate. In fact, that's one of the strengths of the franchise. I love seeing Goombas and Koopas running around. That's one of the great things about Super Mario 3D World, seeing enemies from Super Mario World in the environment.

I guess I'm just confused by the argument. There is more to a game than the gameplay, I agree, but the gameplay is what is being debated when Mario games are compared with each other. It is the blend of consistency of elements within the franchise yet making key changes to gameplay while still making it feel like Mario that makes the franchise so endearing.

Don't try and pretend that sheep haven't been saying that every new mario game could pass for another ip if they changed the characters. That is sheep's excuse for the rehashing. They dont think a new ip is necessary because all the difference mario games already feel like completely different games which is false.

#12 Edited by seanmcloughlin (38168 posts) -

More Mario may be more Mario but when the gameplay is improved or innovated constantly then I don't see a problem. Mario changes more from sequel to sequel than most other AAA games.

On the surface it may look similar but the level design and mechanics are usually different enough for it not to feel the exact same. I'd choose better level design and mechanics in a sequel any day over a new story and different locations, which is all most other gmaes do

#13 Posted by ImDaMan4Realz (94 posts) -

3d world and galaxy are actually pretty distinct from one another. Other than the fact that they are both 3d platformers and set in the same universe.

They have different power ups, different map layouts, Different environmental presentations, heck their "stories" are even different.

I dont know what more people want from nintendo in order to distinguish them.

Nintendo doesn't have to distinguish one mario game from another. But that's the excuse for them not making new IPs. Just because every mario game has key differences doesnt mean that they shouldn't make new IPs that dont involve mario.

#14 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16128 posts) -

So THE most important aspect a game can have is different between each installment of a Mario game... Cool. I'm OK with that completely

I would say the big difference between Mario games is the level design. You're whisked off to all new and creative worlds that are all very skillfully designed. That's what's been keeping the franchise fresh.

Yup, Mario's level design and controls are among the best of all the platformers out there. That is where a game like this can stand or fall in my opinion, not the re-use of story or re-use of music. I couldn't care less about those, in fact I think many fans love the old mario tunes and love hearing them remade in newer games as well as original score.

More Mario may be more Mario but when the gameplay is improved or innovated constantly then I don't see a problem. Mario changes more from sequel to sequel than most other AAA games.

On the surface it may look similar but the level design and mechanics are usually different enough for it not to feel the exact same.

Have you played 3D Land yet ? (free with the purchase of a 3DS and one game)

#15 Posted by ImDaMan4Realz (94 posts) -

More Mario may be more Mario but when the gameplay is improved or innovated constantly then I don't see a problem. Mario changes more from sequel to sequel than most other AAA games.

On the surface it may look similar but the level design and mechanics are usually different enough for it not to feel the exact same. I'd choose better level design and mechanics in a sequel any day over a new story and different locations, which is all most other gmaes do

They're not different enough that Nintendo doesnt need to make new IPs though. Sheep lately have been saying that there is no point of them making new IPs since everyvmario game already feels like a completely different game which isn't true at all.

#16 Posted by Zassimick (6162 posts) -

Don't try and pretend that sheep haven't been saying that every new mario game could pass for another ip if they changed the characters. That is sheep's excuse for the rehashing. They dont think a new ip is necessary because all the difference mario games already feel like completely different games which is false.

Can I get a link on this?

And I'd agree that Nintendo doesn't need a new IP for all the Mario games. Each game is strengthened by the fundamentals of the franchise, elements taken from past games and used in great ways. One is example is when Nintendo brought back the flag poles at the end of the stages; the poles gave a nostalgic feel to the newer games. Now they serve as an indicator of the end of the level and are a constant goal to get to the top.

Again, I'm left confused by your argument. Mario is Mario, we get that. There are plenty of gameplay changes made through the series to keep it fresh while each installment retains elements of past games that continues to strengthen the franchise. There is no need to take this gameplay and change the characters; I bet it would hurt the game as a result if they did that. I don't see why you are making this argument though.

#17 Posted by wiifan001 (18317 posts) -

Sheep like to go around saying that every mario game feels completely different and the only thing they have in common is mario. WRONG. Ignoring the 2d marios which are all exactly like, every mario game feels like mario regardless of the difference in gameplay.

By this logic Mario Teaches Typing feels like a Mario game just as much as Super Mario Bros 3, and Super Mario Galaxy feels like a Mario game just as much as Mario Paint?

If you truly believe that you're either far too one-dimensional in so many ways or you really haven't thought this through.

#18 Posted by sHaDyCuBe321 (4001 posts) -

Given the following entries to popular game series, which franchise has changed more drastically between each iteration?

Since 2007 - Main Series Entries

Mario - Galaxy 1, Galaxy 2, Super Mario 3D World

Halo - Halo 3, Halo Reach, Halo 4

Uncharted - Uncharted 1, 2 and 3

Gameplay wise....probably Mario

#19 Edited by Renegade_Fury (16953 posts) -

Mario's gameplay barely ever changes, which is why I'm so bored of it atm. They do try new things with the level design, I'll give them that, but I want to see more fundamental changes.

#20 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (6622 posts) -

Mario's gameplay barely ever changes, which is why I'm so bored of it atm. They do try new things with the level design, I'll give them that, but I want to see more fundamental changes.

Well, they have put out the Mario and Luigi, Paper Mario, and Luigi's Mansion series which are completely different gameplay-wise from the standard 2D and 3D experiences. As far as making changes to those games, what do you have in mind? They all usually have a different mechanic or suit of some sort, but they are still platformers. I really don't know how much else they could change while still making the game revolve around platforming.

#21 Edited by Renegade_Fury (16953 posts) -

@PurpleMan5000 said:

@Renegade_Fury said:

Mario's gameplay barely ever changes, which is why I'm so bored of it atm. They do try new things with the level design, I'll give them that, but I want to see more fundamental changes.

Well, they have put out the Mario and Luigi, Paper Mario, and Luigi's Mansion series which are completely different gameplay-wise from the standard 2D and 3D experiences. As far as making changes to those games, what do you have in mind? They all usually have a different mechanic or suit of some sort, but they are still platformers. I really don't know how much else they could change while still making the game revolve around platforming.

I only care about the Mario platformers; I don't like the rpgs or luigi's mansion. I'm talking about how he controls, his physics, what moves he can perform without powerups, etc. At its core, Mario has handled the same since 64 (it's gotten way more polished, but it has again stagnated since '07). I want real changes, so to speak, and I'm not a believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" after a long period of time. Other franchises either don't come out as often, or they flip things around every now and then, but Mario doesn't. Instead, his games are releasing more periodically, and they all handle the same or extremely similarly. That gets boring to me.

#22 Posted by ImDaMan4Realz (94 posts) -

@imdaman4realz said:

Sheep like to go around saying that every mario game feels completely different and the only thing they have in common is mario. WRONG. Ignoring the 2d marios which are all exactly like, every mario game feels like mario regardless of the difference in gameplay.

By this logic Mario Teaches Typing feels like a Mario game just as much as Super Mario Bros 3, and Super Mario Galaxy feels like a Mario game just as much as Mario Paint?

If you truly believe that you're either far too one-dimensional in so many ways or you really haven't thought this through.

.... Did I say anything about the terrible spin offs? Can u quote where u thought I may have been talking about spin offs?

#23 Posted by DarkLink77 (31683 posts) -

More Mario may be more Mario but when the gameplay is improved or innovated constantly then I don't see a problem. Mario changes more from sequel to sequel than most other AAA games.

On the surface it may look similar but the level design and mechanics are usually different enough for it not to feel the exact same. I'd choose better level design and mechanics in a sequel any day over a new story and different locations, which is all most other gmaes do

This.

"Well, the only thing that's different is the gameplay."

And that's the only thing that matters. TC is a moron.

#24 Posted by wiifan001 (18317 posts) -

@wiifan001 said:
@imdaman4realz said:

Sheep like to go around saying that every mario game feels completely different and the only thing they have in common is mario. WRONG. Ignoring the 2d marios which are all exactly like, every mario game feels like mario regardless of the difference in gameplay.

By this logic Mario Teaches Typing feels like a Mario game just as much as Super Mario Bros 3, and Super Mario Galaxy feels like a Mario game just as much as Mario Paint?

If you truly believe that you're either far too one-dimensional in so many ways or you really haven't thought this through.

.... Did I say anything about the terrible spin offs? Can u quote where u thought I may have been talking about spin offs?

You said "EVERY Mario feels like a Mario game regardless of the difference in gameplay". And "every" includes the spin offs, I don't know how to interpret your meaning of "every Mario game," but I see now it's not a complete generalization....

#25 Edited by PrincessGomez92 (3245 posts) -

TC is a moron.

#26 Posted by g0ddyX (3873 posts) -

TC is right in what he says. But the loyal Nintendo fans would think its completely different and new.
The same old formula wont change and it works for Nintendo as kids and their fans are entertained and buy into it.
It is a rehash and it was one that works for them.

Gameplay and Graphics go hand in hand. The best games have that combination.
After all, you are 'seeing' a game and what is on the screen is what you see.

#27 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38168 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin said:

More Mario may be more Mario but when the gameplay is improved or innovated constantly then I don't see a problem. Mario changes more from sequel to sequel than most other AAA games.

On the surface it may look similar but the level design and mechanics are usually different enough for it not to feel the exact same. I'd choose better level design and mechanics in a sequel any day over a new story and different locations, which is all most other gmaes do

They're not different enough that Nintendo doesnt need to make new IPs though. Sheep lately have been saying that there is no point of them making new IPs since everyvmario game already feels like a completely different game which isn't true at all.

Sheep for all intents and purposes of SW are fanboys of Nintendo and their games and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously. Just like Cows, Lems, Herms and any other fanboy period.

#28 Posted by enzyme36 (1419 posts) -

There is more innovation and originality in 1 stage of a Mario game than there is in most full games. So when you say Mario is Mario.... you are absolutely correct. Because Mario is the golden standard in fresh, innovative, original gameplay.

#29 Edited by bobbetybob (19088 posts) -

I've never seen anybody say every Mario game feels different, in fact, them feeling similar is part of the appeal, you know you're going to be getting tight, fantastically designed platforming.

#30 Edited by seanmcloughlin (38168 posts) -

I've never seen anybody say every Mario game feels different, in fact, them feeling similar is part of the appeal, you know you're going to be getting tight, fantastically designed platforming.

let alone anyone saying it feels different enough to be a new IP every time

#31 Posted by lundy86_4 (42663 posts) -

There are people far more educated on Mario than myself, who have, and will destroy your thread.

#32 Posted by Nintendo_Ownes7 (30917 posts) -

@bobbetybob said:

I've never seen anybody say every Mario game feels different, in fact, them feeling similar is part of the appeal, you know you're going to be getting tight, fantastically designed platforming.

let alone anyone saying it feels different enough to be a new IP every time

Neither have I but I did say that Sunshine might have been better received if if it was a new IP.

It got a lot of hate because they thought it wasn't a good Mario game but it was one of the best Platformers of the 6th Generation it just wasn't what people thought when they thought of a Mario title.

#33 Edited by Shinobishyguy (22318 posts) -

Mariokart and mario rpg are totally the same game guise, srsly

#34 Edited by Gue1 (9171 posts) -

on Mario 64 you enter to a paint and have some absolutely crazy platforming like never seen before.. On Mario Sunshine they completely changed the platforming with a water pump. On Mario Galaxy you run around spherical plains. On Mario 3D World they went back to something more traditional but with multiplayer.

Mario is the only Nintendo franchise that truly changes through time unlike all their others stuck with the same formula. If each game had a different character and name it could pass for new IP's and no one would notice it.

#35 Posted by Ghost120x (3652 posts) -

Okay. Your point?

#36 Edited by Wild_man_22 (562 posts) -

@imdaman4realz:

Wait...so the problem you have is that they do distinguish themselves? Why wouldnt you want them to distinguish themselves?

The idea that nintendo doesnt make new ips because they shove everything into mario is ridiculous....

If that were the case why do they have so many other platforming franchises?

#37 Posted by ImDaMan4Realz (94 posts) -

@bobbetybob said:

I've never seen anybody say every Mario game feels different, in fact, them feeling similar is part of the appeal, you know you're going to be getting tight, fantastically designed platforming.

let alone anyone saying it feels different enough to be a new IP every time

Charizard

#38 Posted by ImDaMan4Realz (94 posts) -

@imdaman4realz:

Wait...so the problem you have is that they do distinguish themselves? Why wouldnt you want them to distinguish themselves?

The idea that nintendo doesnt make new ips because they shove everything into mario is ridiculous....

If that were the case why do they have so many other platforming franchises?

What besides kirby do they have? Metroid has been dead for awhile now.

#39 Posted by Nintendo_Ownes7 (30917 posts) -

What besides kirby do they have? Metroid has been dead for awhile now.

Metroid isn't dead if they made a new game in 2010.

It can't be dead if it has only been 3 years.

#40 Posted by hiphops_savior (7687 posts) -

@imdaman4realz said:

What besides kirby do they have? Metroid has been dead for awhile now.

Metroid isn't dead if they made a new game in 2010.

It can't be dead if it has only been 3 years.

Well, Other M did flop, and Metroid Prime for all intents and purposes, is finished. I would say it's more of a hiatus than dead.

#41 Posted by crimsonman1245 (4253 posts) -

In Nintendo's defense, they do a pretty good job of making every new mario game different from the other's, most sequels we get from other publishers are pretty much exactly the same with different assets.

But they do rely on him to much.

#42 Edited by HarlockJC (25546 posts) -

Your having a hard time finding any who agree with you. Most the people that would agree with you have not played the games. There is a reason why Mario games are ranked so high, and it's not because they all play the same. Do they all have common parts in them, yes they do. But there is must more of a differences between playing NSMW 4d than playing NSMB than any other sequels your going to find. It's like saying a 2d shooter is the same as a 3d shooter. Yet they have a lot in common, but they are still 2 complacently different styles of gameplay.

#43 Edited by Meinhard1 (6745 posts) -

Mario Sunshine, Mario Galaxy, and Mario 3D world are three very different platformers with pretty different visual styles.

Sunshine

Galaxy

Mario 3D World

Or here, similar themes:

#44 Edited by Meinhard1 (6745 posts) -
#45 Edited by drinkerofjuice (3155 posts) -

So it's different in the most important aspect? Good enough for me.

#46 Posted by RogueStatus28 (501 posts) -

Wouldn't that logic go with most of today's games?

#47 Posted by WitIsWisdom (3633 posts) -

There are so many games that could have or should have stayed a little more true to their roots and they would either STILL BE AROUND today or would be doing MUCH better. Nintendo makes a perfect example in the face that you CAN have subtle changes without completely rewriting the formula or breaking the mold.

#48 Posted by Wild_man_22 (562 posts) -

@imdaman4realz:

Donkey kong country? Yoshi? kirby? thats 4 pretty distinct platformers.

If nintendo really shoved all their ideas in mario why do these games exist?

The reason nintendo releases so much mario branded stuff has more to do with their own lack of confidence in products. Not a lack of creativity.

#49 Posted by ImDaMan4Realz (94 posts) -

Damn would yall read the OP? Can yall read? I'm not trying to say that the mario games arent different enough, I'm saying that just because each game is somewhat different, doesnt mean they're different enough to say that new IPs arent needed.

#50 Edited by Zassimick (6162 posts) -

Damn would yall read the OP? Can yall read? I'm not trying to say that the mario games arent different enough, I'm saying that just because each game is somewhat different, doesnt mean they're different enough to say that new IPs arent needed.

Sheep like to go around saying that every mario game feels completely different and the only thing they have in common is mario. WRONG. Ignoring the 2d marios which are all exactly like, every mario game feels like mario regardless of the difference in gameplay. The artstyles are all similar, the music is all similar, the stories are all similiar. There is more to a game being different than just gameplay. I know it makes you feel better with the thought that nintendo makes different types of games just with the same characters, artstyle, music, story, and atmosphere, but all mario games feel more alike to eachother than to other platformers.

There was a reason I kept saying I was confused in my posts. Care to point out in the OP where it mentions the argument of people saying new IPs aren't needed? Maybe if it had that the conversation would be where you wanted it to be.

Even then, I'm not sure what your argument is. Is it that Nintendo just flat out needs to make new IPs? Should they be swapping out the Mario universe out of some of these games and putting in a new franchise in its place? Do they just need another platformer that is a new IP (as if they don't have enough of these now, with Mario, Kirby, Donkey Kong, and Wario at times.)

If your argument is simply, "just because each [Mario] game is somewhat different, doesnt mean they're different enough to say that new IPs arent needed," then I've seen a few people in the thread argue that not many people have stated this. When asked who you mentioned Charizard1605, which is just one person. It seems a small minority think this thought, therefore it doesn't seem like too many seem to hold this view that you have a problem with.