Logical reason why PS4 has the potential to be more powerful than X720

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Mystery_Writer

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#1 Mystery_Writer
Member since 2004 • 8351 Posts

if MS rumors were right and that they are going to bundle Kinect with every X720 SKU, then it seems somewhat difficult to release their next console at a competitive price (relative to PS4) and still make money.

Hence, they might sacrifice reducing the cost somewhere else in order to have Kinect as a standard feature.

And according to this rumor excerpt"Discrete sources at GDC also confirmed to the publication that developers expect Sony's Playstation 4 to be more powerful than the next Xbox",the cost cutting seems to be in the form of a modest PowerPC CPU compared to SONY's rumored APU.

So what do you guys think? Which one you predict (from what has been rumored so far) is going to be the most powerful console next gen?

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Shewgenja

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#2 Shewgenja
Member since 2009 • 21456 Posts

I think my 680 already stomps a mudhole in all three next-gen systems.

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Vadamee

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#3 Vadamee
Member since 2009 • 1195 Posts
So of the 10-20 rumors that have been reported, why do you choose the one that makes the PS4 more powerful? I hope cows don't drink the Sony Kool-aid like they did 7 years ago.

I think my 680 already stomps a mudhole in all three next-gen systems.

Shewgenja
You must have early development kits, then.
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ronvalencia

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#4 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

I think my 680 already stomps a mudhole in all three next-gen systems.

Shewgenja
NVIDIA G80 was released a few days ahead of PS3.
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Mystery_Writer

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#5 Mystery_Writer
Member since 2004 • 8351 Posts
[QUOTE="Vadamee"]So of the 10-20 rumors that have been reported, why do you choose the one that makes the PS4 more powerful? I hope cows don't drink the Sony Kool-aid like they did 7 years ago.

yes, but they all seem to support my hypothesis. All of them indicated Kindect will be a standard feature.
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TwoFace-BS

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#6 TwoFace-BS
Member since 2011 • 9531 Posts
Heres a logical reason why your wrong. Neither console has been announced yet.And Im sure that none of the rumors are 100% true.
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waltefmoney

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#7 waltefmoney
Member since 2010 • 18030 Posts

We've also had bunch of cources claiming the Nextbox to be more powerful.

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valium88

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#8 valium88
Member since 2006 • 4455 Posts

I think it's to early to speculate, but I doubt Microsoft will sacrifice hardware for kinect. Most likely the two systems will be pretty equal in hardware.

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Mystery_Writer

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#9 Mystery_Writer
Member since 2004 • 8351 Posts

I think it's to early to speculate, but I doubt Microsoft will sacrifice hardware for kinect. Most likely the two systems will be pretty equal in hardware.

valium88
I really hope they don't include it as a standard feature. That way, both next gen consoles could have the potential to be comparable in power.
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valium88

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#10 valium88
Member since 2006 • 4455 Posts

[QUOTE="valium88"]

I think it's to early to speculate, but I doubt Microsoft will sacrifice hardware for kinect. Most likely the two systems will be pretty equal in hardware.

Mystery_Writer

I really hope they don't include it as a standard feature. That way, both next gen consoles could have the potential to be comparable in power.

I think they will be very much comparable in power, Sony will most likely go for a recipe easier for developers to follow and be more like the XBOX. They'll still have their exclusives making some people buy both systems.

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Shewgenja

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#11 Shewgenja
Member since 2009 • 21456 Posts
[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

I think my 680 already stomps a mudhole in all three next-gen systems.

ronvalencia
NVIDIA G80 was released a few days ahead of PS3.

That was a 6 'Six' not a G 'jee'. Quite a difference.
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ShadowriverUB

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#12 ShadowriverUB
Member since 2009 • 5515 Posts
Well all specs we hear is just rumors, it might be leaks but also i might be speculation
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PC_Otter

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#13 PC_Otter
Member since 2010 • 1623 Posts
[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

I think my 680 already stomps a mudhole in all three next-gen systems.

Shewgenja
NVIDIA G80 was released a few days ahead of PS3.

That was a 6 'Six' not a G 'jee'. Quite a difference.

I think he's making the point that there is still the possibility that whatever the PS4 has in it could be a single generation behind whatever PC GPU is current at the PS4's release date. While yes, G80 stomps all over the PS3's RSX, the PS3 in comparison to G80 has managed to remain quite competitive thanks to the addition of Cell in graphics, optimization, and developers knowing how to make the best use of what they have at their disposal. I don't think Sony will be going that hardcore this time around, but seeing how well the GTX 680 has taken the crown back for Nvidia and with much lower power consumption and die size to boot, Nvidia and Sony might be able to strike a deal, but I'm more inclined to believe Sony would go with an APU set up. I don't see Trinity being of high enough performance to make a suitable successor but something with 4 AMD modules and a 'fused' GPU anywhere from Cape Verde to Pictairn's performance could be doable. The other issue would be the memory subsystem, because you would need a very wide bus to keep such a system fed with today's memory speeds. 4 GB of main memory either a 256 bit bus with GDDR5 or 128 bit with XDR2 would be sufficient. Like with Trinity, memory would not have to be partitioned into VRAM and SRAM, as the APU can allocate as it pleases and the graphics cores could be used for CPU operations if a developer desires.
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Shewgenja

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#14 Shewgenja
Member since 2009 • 21456 Posts

That was actually pretty cool. I wonder if a GPU could work with XDR.

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GotNugz

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#15 GotNugz
Member since 2010 • 681 Posts
Latest Xbox rumor states Durango to be using a 16 core CPU and an gpu range of HD7970-HD8970. Just the delivery man don't throw rocks
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ActionRemix

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#16 ActionRemix
Member since 2011 • 5640 Posts

Wii U will be the most powerful and you lemmings/sheep just have to accept that.

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PC_Otter

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#17 PC_Otter
Member since 2010 • 1623 Posts

Latest Xbox rumor states Durango to be using a 16 core CPU and an gpu range of HD7970-HD8970. Just the delivery man don't throw rocksGotNugz
16 core CPU would be a huge **** so unlikely. Yes, MS could possibly make a Xenon derived "quad/penta-Xenon" that takes the same cores from the Xenon with maybe a huge increase of Cache per core, but the sheer narrow size of the Xenon's dual issue cores coupled with their in-order architecture would make programming them incredibly burdening for developers. Programmers don't want to have to program for 16 cores/32 threads, when they could get lets say a quad core Power7 that should be in a similar ballpark of overall performance on 4 cores/16 threads, out of order architecture, and not require so much code splitting.

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pppjjj

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#18 pppjjj
Member since 2004 • 1094 Posts

I really wonder if Sony will go that route.

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ronvalencia

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#19 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] NVIDIA G80 was released a few days ahead of PS3.PC_Otter
That was a 6 'Six' not a G 'jee'. Quite a difference.

I think he's making the point that there is still the possibility that whatever the PS4 has in it could be a single generation behind whatever PC GPU is current at the PS4's release date. While yes, G80 stomps all over the PS3's RSX, the PS3 in comparison to G80 has managed to remain quite competitive thanks to the addition of Cell in graphics, optimization, and developers knowing how to make the best use of what they have at their disposal. I don't think Sony will be going that hardcore this time around, but seeing how well the GTX 680 has taken the crown back for Nvidia and with much lower power consumption and die size to boot, Nvidia and Sony might be able to strike a deal, but I'm more inclined to believe Sony would go with an APU set up. I don't see Trinity being of high enough performance to make a suitable successor but something with 4 AMD modules and a 'fused' GPU anywhere from Cape Verde to Pictairn's performance could be doable. The other issue would be the memory subsystem, because you would need a very wide bus to keep such a system fed with today's memory speeds. 4 GB of main memory either a 256 bit bus with GDDR5 or 128 bit with XDR2 would be sufficient. Like with Trinity, memory would not have to be partitioned into VRAM and SRAM, as the APU can allocate as it pleases and the graphics cores could be used for CPU operations if a developer desires.

On GTX680 vs HD7970 dependant on the benchmark mix. The console games can target a particlar GPU's characteristics.

On top of xbitlab's AMD side list(2), add Wolfenstein(1), Crysis Warhead, World In Conflict(1), BattleForge (1), Deus Ex: HR(1), Serious Sam 3(1).

1. Link from alienbabeltech.com's benchmark mix

2. From link

Thus, the GeForce GTX 680 wins in all of our three synthetic benchmarks as well as in the following games: Just Cause 2, Lost Planet 2, StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty, Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X.2, DiRT 3, Hard Reset, Batman: Arkham City and Battlefield 3.

The AMD Radeon HD 7970, on its part, is ahead of its opponent in Left 4 Dead 2: The Sacrifice, Metro 2033: The Last Refuge, Aliens vs. Predator (2010), Sid Meier's Civilization V and Crysis 2. The two cards are more or less similar to each other in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat and Total War: Shogun 2.



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PC_Otter

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#20 PC_Otter
Member since 2010 • 1623 Posts

Between the GTX 680 and 7970, I'd go with the 680 based on it's smaller die, better overall TDW and power consumption.

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ronvalencia

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#21 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

Between the GTX 680 and 7970, I'd go with the 680 based on it's smaller die, better overall TDW and power consumption.

PC_Otter

HD7870 has superior transistor packing compared GTX680 and HD7970 i.e. HD7870 has the latest GCN design.

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csftar

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#22 csftar
Member since 2009 • 937 Posts

I know my 2x 680 already stomp a mudhole in all three next-gen systems.

Shewgenja

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#23 PC_Otter
Member since 2010 • 1623 Posts

[QUOTE="PC_Otter"]

Between the GTX 680 and 7970, I'd go with the 680 based on it's smaller die, better overall TDW and power consumption.

ronvalencia

HD7870 has superior transistor packing compared GTX680 and HD7970. HD7870 has the latest GCN design.

Yeah but who's to say that Nvidia isn't going to have a GPU in the same class as the 7870 with better aspects like die size, TDW, etc? I'm not trying to seem pro-Nvidia here, but the GTX 680 really came out of know where to really rain on the 7970s parade. I guess that is what AMD gets for going GCN (though necessary for their future). Hopefully, next go around they greatly improve their performance/transistor/mm².

A GTX 670 or whatever is looking right up my alley.

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ShadowMoses900

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#24 ShadowMoses900
Member since 2010 • 17081 Posts

More rumors, yay! We know NOTHING about the next Xbox or Playstation, so how do we know who is going to be more powerful?

But I think whatever system launches last will be the most powerful. It will have the most time in development.

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ronvalencia

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#25 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="PC_Otter"]

Between the GTX 680 and 7970, I'd go with the 680 based on it's smaller die, better overall TDW and power consumption.

PC_Otter

HD7870 has superior transistor packing compared GTX680 and HD7970. HD7870 has the latest GCN design.

Yeah but who's to say that Nvidia isn't going to have a GPU in the same class as the 7870 with better aspects like die size, TDW, etc? I'm not trying to seem pro-Nvidia here, but the GTX 680 really came out of know where to really rain on the 7970s parade. I guess that is what AMD gets for going GCN (though necessary for their future). Hopefully, next go around they greatly improve their performance/transistor/mm².

A GTX 670 or whatever is looking right up my alley.

GTX 680 already compromised it's OpenCL/DX11.1's 64bit DP FP, which helps it reduce it's transistor count and die size.

HD7870 also reduced it's OpenCL/DX11.1's 64bit DP FP performance which helps it reduce it's transistor count and die size.

The pattern is the same for both camps. In terms of tech, both AMD and NV are about even and both use the same TSMC fabs.

AMD could have designed a GCN with reduced X86-64 IP support and 64bit DP FP i.e. design a GPU design for current raster game workloads.

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Spartan070

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#26 Spartan070
Member since 2004 • 16497 Posts

I think my 680 already stomps a mudhole in all three next-gen systems.

Shewgenja
You could run two if you want, unless it plays Halo 5 and God of War 4 I'm still getting the next gen systems.
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#27 wyan_
Member since 2009 • 614 Posts

I just hope both consoles are disgustingly powerful. Unless they are two years apart there will be hardly any difference at all.