Larry Herb still doesn't get it about pre-180 Xbone

Here we go again.

Today during a PAX East panel called Console Launches: A Post Mortem, Microsoft's Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb acknowledged that it was a real challenge getting the Xbox One message across last summer when the console was originally announced.

The Xbox One was "very complex to explain" to consumers, Hryb said. He went on to explain that when you're marketing a product, whether it's an Xbox One or a phone or even a stapler, you need to be very clear to the customer about why they need the product in question.

For the Xbox One, "It was definitely a challenge" in getting that message across, Hryb said. Presumably, Microsoft thinks it has improved its Xbox One messaging to date, but Hryb did not say one way or the other.

And then he had a little tantrum about the PS4 lineup. Because you know, these guys, so humble now.

Between this and Phil Sphincter's "We didn't completely communicate it the right way; some of the decisions maybe didn't land" the other day we're looking at that lurvely disc-based always-online DRM making its triumphant return. Anything you want to add, Phil?

Phil? You're looking a bit sick there.

I would hate to be someone who spent my valuable money on an Xbox One.

Bu-bu-bu-bu teh breathz of fresh airz? Where are your feel goodz? Teh fresh start!

The way people were fangirling out over the latest management shake up, you would have thought Jesus was running the show now. It just doesn't pay to fangirl out without results.

Well the message was very difficult to explain to consumers.

I am also throwing a tantrum about the PS4's lineup.

I dont really "get" what you dont "get.

And he's totally right.

Quite funny actually, i think he was a big part of the reason they failed to get their message across when it first revealed.

You don't get it because you're obviously a pony. Phil's a gamer and he's bringing the games like Magic 2015 and Soda Drinker Pro. Xbox won.

Maybe you guys can do the job. What exactly was the message? From where I'm sitting it was "You're a soulless name and number on a balance sheet and you will love this shit." As a gamer, I'm not comfortable with a game console having more rules and guidelines than Obamacare. Just sayin'

To be fair people were "fangirling" because they believe the management shake up is hopefully going to clear up some of those communication problems you guys are criticizing in this very topic. You can criticize the fact the product was poorly communicated initially because it really was...but the mamagement shake up is exactly that, its too early to judge whether or not these guys are doing a bad job.

Also, just type normally your not a "funny" enough user to pull of the bu bu bu...teh lolz. Too much pointless bitter resentment towards an inanimate object you dont wish to own to see any humour in your posts.

His name is Hryb, not Herb.

I think that's more than likely true actually. Larry is not particularly great with his words.

Spencer ftw.

I think pre 180 Xbone sucked and I think current 180 Xbone sucks.

Honestly they probably should have stuck to their original vision, no matter how crappy. Doing a 180 and releases an inferior yet more expensive PS4 was pointless.

At least "teh cloud" could have been SOME sort of advantage/differentiation...

The rules were simple. I dont want to speak for your intellectual capacity because its hard to estimate how far into your teens you actually are by your post style. The issue was that there were some rules! not their complexity. Its difficult to explain rules through marketing...people want to see the fun bits. However the fun bits were there. The family sharing plan for example, would have been an amazing feature, unfortunately the online check in required to ensure it was not abused was what the media chose to latch on to instead VIA the DRM buzzword.

People just latched on to DRM and the whole "your just renting games you dont even own them" crap and it spiraled out of control. So then it wasnt just a handful of 360 owners who were potentially annoyed, it was anybody who owned a PC and games with poorly made DRM software that made their computer slow, anyone with games with limited installs. Actually a lot of people who were not gamers added their "its about your freedom" opinions to the mixing pot. All of this happened without MS actually explaining how all of this stuff was going to work. Which IS inexcusable.

However criticizing them for trying to change just isnt fair so early on.

Ahh, you got me wrong there. I think it was a poor product, communicated. They knew what they were doing, they just got called out on it. They were waving their right arm around with TVTVTV SportsSports Call of Doggy while the left hand was a closed fist with brass knuckles of DRM. They tried puppeteering the gaming press, as they did quite effectively throughout Gen7, hoping that the dirty work would just get done. It was a good plan, except, you have people like me out there flooding the internet with what's really going on.

My issue was NEVER with the framing/communicating/messaging. Although, it was nice to get two birds with one stone since the press has been fangirling for MS on top of the sheer enormity of bullshit that was XBone 1.0 as I will refer to it. My issue was with the substance all along, and I suspect the mass of people calling for a boycott of an always-online console were as well. After all, it was at every turn the actual facts of the thing came out that the uproar only got louder. MS talking heads being obviously caught with their pants down were in no position to help matters. When questions got answered, it was nothing but bad news.

Oh and for the love of all things holy and unholy, don't go retreating to the tried and true "But you never wish to own an XBox" crap. I bought a 360 at launch. Went to a lot of forums spilling the same "This is the Genertion of X" tripe shit you window lickers banter on about. I had to decide if I was a gamer or if I was just another Live account drinking the Kool-Aid at one point. I put the Kool-Aid down, homey. The reality of it is that I was just like you once. The only difference being, half a billion dollars of Kinect marketing later and no first party AAAs in sight later, I was a PS3 owner. You just stuck around like a barnacle on a sinking ship. That ain't on me, so don't cry about it.

Indeed.

Really, you don't remember the fallout on the web over Diablo III being DRMed or the latest Sims release being completely plagued with problems because of it's always-on DRM? What about Ubisoft having to go so far as to strip the DRM out of its PC games because of the fallout? Time and time again, we were shown precisely why online-DRM was a HORRIBLE idea.

You know what, nevermind even that shit. Let's talk about Titanfall launch day for a second. You would be content with owning a fucking brick of a console because Lives servers being crashed every time a big game launched? What if you didn't even want to play TF or Halo 5 or whatever? MS was saying "**** you" and you want to say the Family Plan makes up for that? Again, that is some serious Grade A fangirl shit bro.

They're lucky they got the amount of sales they have now. If they had gone with the always online DRM box Sony would have stomped them into the floor due to overkill. Mattric or who ever came up with the idea totally misjudged internet infrastructure on a global scale.

lmao that family sharing stuff was a load of crap. Nine potentially lost customers per sale. No way would it have been what MS was saying after they scrapped it.

@Salt_The_Fries:

I actually don't mind the spelling to be Herb. I never really cared for this guy. I never quite liked him. I'm sure he's a nice guy outside gaming but I can't help but look at him and just say that this guy is a tool.

MS is still failing to show me a good reason for Kinect. They are delusional, if they think the masses understand.

Of course I remember the fallout over those titles, the fact is those were obtrusive and destructive DRM methods. A 24 check in is less obtrusive. Equally the DRM had to exist for something like a family sharing plan to exist. I dont believe for a second it was some conspiracy to strip of us of our consumer rights, simply a necessary evil in order to offer a new an interesting way of sharing and enjoying our content.

Also the hypothetical scenario whereby live servers crash at the launch of a big game is just that, I believe there were only limited instances of issues with Titanfall that were fixed almost immediately. These servers were put in place for a reason. No this isnt me spouting cloud power, but the servers farms are very real and have a very real impact on the way the X1 plays online.

The family plan was not the only positive to the pre 180 XBone but its certainly the main reason why the DRM was totally necessary. I dont think it was the DRM alone. I think DRM combined with the kinect just created something in the mind of the consumer that said....this console has too much going on, and I totally understand that. However I am not going to criticize MS for the way they dealt with the backlash, changing their product almost in its entirety a few months before launch. Restructuring their management and the consistent updates that make the console better and batter.

I cant argue with some of your points, they are just as infuriating to me as they are to you. I just dont think its fair to be hyper critical of a brand that is still making efforts to please its fanbase. I mean they could have pulled a Ninty on us and just let the Xbone die like the Wii U.

That interview he did with Angry Joe was EPIC. Dude is a serious tool. An idol for window lickers, though.

this is more following on you on always_explicit's explanation but I can't believe people still believe the family share plan was even going to go ahead. Think about it, one person buys the game and can choose up to 10 people to share it with...that's 10 lost sales because those people no longer have the need to purchase the game. How people thought MS was going to sugar coat this to devs and publishers is beyond me lol. A similar thing happened with the PS3, it got abused and they reduced the lending number to just one extra person I think, might be wrong on that but it was definitely cut down.

Agree with D3 and Sim City, disasters in their own right. I'm not even sure how they sold well. Having always online for solo mode 'single player' is the hugest oversight a developer can make. Fast fibre bb is definitely around and growing but it won't be standard for a good while yet, not to mention purposefully limiting sales of the product out of the gate.

I cannot believe people are still excusing that guff ten months on.

Im glad im not you also. That would suck. Meantime i'm doing great getting my money's worth with my console.

I'm just pleased you lost.

At that point, any advantages consoles have will be gone. If that happens I'll abandon them and stick to PC.

And that's why there's no point getting one over a PC.

If your dystopia came to pass, more casuals would get the PS6 or whatever.

Yeah the family plan was awesome,share you games with your family but only 1 could use it at one time,which is exactly the same way you do it now with your family games.

In fact the whole family plan wasn't talk about until latter on was view as bad because it looked more like a quick fix,to stop people from complaining about the real problem with the xbox one,not been able to share your games with friends,if you gave your friend a game it becomes his game and you would never be able to do use it again.

You could not sell your games to gamestop normally line now,or to another person,and 3rd parties could actually block all re sales of the game,the whole online DRM was more about stopping pirates from using backup games on xbox one than anythings else.

Adding to insult if you didn't connect your console in 24 hour each day it would stop working,this was horrible to any one no matter how you slice it,internet fails,people move,and servers are kill.

Is MS decide 10 years from now that they would kill xbox one servers how yours games would have work without your console connecting to those servers,since games required a connection every 24 hours to check your games,so basically MS can decide when to kill the platform completely and make you move to a new one,no matter what Nes games still work even that the Nes is more than 20 years old,with the xbox one that probably would have not work.

If your internet failed you would be without a console to play period.

Or if you moved it would take some time before your set in and request an online service installation and all that crap.

Stop how do you know people who complained about DRM aren't gamers.? Neogaf was very vocal and is about as big gaming community of hardcore as you may get,so no the first ones who scream about freedom were gamers,i have the right to sell something i legally bought,that include games,i have the right to lend the game to a friend is i want to as well is my game,just like my car is mine and Dodge can't tell me who i can or can't sell it to or lend it to.

MS policies were horrible and only a true fanboy will defend those over what we have now.

@Shewgenja:

Bro after watching that interview it only confirmed how I felt about him as being a tool.

Again, he is probably a nice guy outside of gaming so forgive me for anyone taking offense but I can't help but cringe when this guy speaks sometimes.

That article is insightful on Spencer. He doesn't blame the anti-consumer DRM but how it was communicated. I think there is middle ground for both the message and the actual DRM being the problem.

In any event, it seems that Spencer (who's been promoted as Xbox Head) is keen on trying that DRM approach again in the future. Maybe roll it out slowly this time.

YOU GUYS ALL DID IT AGAIN! CONGRATS! Didn't we talk about this yesterday?

Just one little problem with all of this. PC, unlike your ideal always-connected DRM-A (Read: Dick Ramming My Ass) console is that you won't watch hundreds of dollars of software go *poof* one day when the new toy is out and MS decides to cut the chord on the old one. Kind of like how the servers got pulled on Halo Wars only the old console becomes a deactivated paper weight.

Or is this really your grand idea, too? Want to keep buying Halo2 til the end of time because SuperGogeta3HD version comes out on XBox 1440? Ya'll need Jesus. Like, seriously.

It's amazing how being arrogant and treating your customers like idiots makes them not want to listen to you about your new product.

@GrenadeLauncher said:

@_Matt_ said:

@RR360DD said:

And he's totally right.

Quite funny actually, i think he was a big part of the reason they failed to get their message across when it first revealed.

I think that's more than likely true actually. Larry is not particularly great with his words.

Spencer ftw.

Indeed.

You gotta admit, he has an excellent taste in jackets.

You seriously need to learn some comprehension man. I said a lot of people who complained were not gamers....I didnt say no gamers complained.

I mean it really becomes difficult to take any or your arguments seriously when you fail entirely to understand others.

I would have to agree.

When I upgrade to a system board/processor with DDR4 support and am rocking an 880 or 980GTX, I assure you that my copies of Diablo/Doom/Black & White/Myst/etc will be just fine. Were you ever able to make such a claim about XBox? Was there ever such a reassurance?

We both know the answer. No need to lie to kick it. You're willing to be a lubed up corporate pawn in the name of MS instead of being a gamer, that is why we won't see eye to eye. This is precisely why MS is losing so much trust amongst gamers and MS fans are slowly but surely losing any or all respect they had from last-gen. Your brand loyalty blinds you to very important questions being brushed aside while your willingness to be on board is without question.

These are dark times in gaming. Sadly, the brand I once loved (XBox) has become such a hollow shell of its former self without the guidance of J. Allard or Blackley. It's such an obvious half-assed bean-counter box that it's laughable.

Hahaha. Your such a chump.

Hey, you're the one on board with this shit. Not me. Not gamers. How come you don't have the answers?

lol your trying to argue logically with shew that's not possible, Mind you If tomorrow sony came out with an aggressive drm plan and literally said in 15 years we will shut down the servers nixing the games ability to play he would be all for it make up weird scenarios where its only right for the gamer and the best option for the companies because than those users can spend their time buying the new system and games instead of playing the old.

99% of sheen's you can make one logical argument In any scenario Sony=good Microsoft=bad even then they do the exact same thing.

Nice false equivalence, B.Gorm.

Nice contribution. If your going to call me out at least have the gumption to say something worth reading sweetheart.

And this is why you are known as a window licker. If Sony announced that, I would put a Youtube video of me smashing the PS4 with a sledgehammer and urge SW to do the same. It's hard for a fanboy like you to wrap your head around this, but brand loyalty for the sake of brand loyalty is the dumbest shit you can possibly be capable of. Don't accuse me of that shit. You have exactly no evidence that I would do that.

On the contrary, I would pick up a WiiU immediately, although I plan on picking one up after E3.

Wah wah

no TC you don't get it...

What they are saying in a nice way is don basically committed suicide every time he talked to the press in any way