Iwata talks about Nintendo and mobile devices.

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#1  Edited By PikachuDude860
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In a wide-ranging interview with Time, Nintendo president Satoru Iwata speaks at length about his company's recent landmark deal with DeNA to finally bring its tentpole franchises to smart devices.

When the deal was announced Tuesday, it was widely assumed that Nintendo would be making free-to-play mobile games. Iwata acknowledged that it might take this course, but stressed that pricing will be determined on a title-by-title basis.

"I understand that, unlike the package model for dedicated game systems, the free-to-start type of business model is more widely adopted for games on smart devices, and the free-to-start model will naturally be an option for us to consider," "On the other hand, even in the world of smart device apps, the business model continues to change," "Accordingly, for each title, we will discuss with DeNA and decide the most appropriate payment method. So, specifically to your question, both can be options, and if a new Nintendo-like invention comes of it, then all the better."

Nintendo has not announced any smartphone games yet, but the company plans to release its first products by the end of the year. DeNA has high hopes for these games, saying they are expected to reach as many as 100 million daily active users. Nintendo and DeNA are also working on a cross-platform servicefor its mobile games, though specific details on this initiative are being kept under wraps for now.

Iwata also explained that, while some mobile game companies are dependent on a single hit title (he didn't mention any names, but Candy Crush comes to mind), Nintendo will instead cultivate a series of games based on its stable of popular franchises. This will help Nintendo create a meaningful, long-term mobile business, he said.

"For Nintendo, being able to make use of the enormous IP library that we have carefully nurtured for more than 30 years is a major strength," "We would like to create several hit titles simultaneously by effectively leveraging the appeal of Nintendo IP, which many people around the world are familiar with."

The executive also addressed the concern some have that releasing Nintendo franchises for smartphones might lead to the devaluation of the company's highly regarded IP. The thinking goes: when you can get a game for free or cheap, it could become less valuable.

Iwata acknowledged this concern, but said Nintendo has a plan to actually bolster the value of its franchises by bringing them to mobile.

"The value of content generally tends to weaken in the digital world, and especially on smart devices, it is not easy to maintain the value of content," "We aim to explore ways where we will not devalue Nintendo IP and, rather, we can further improve the value."

Nintendo is not planning to simply port its games to mobile. Instead, Iwata said Nintendo will create games specifically for mobile devices; these games will be "accessible" and titles that people can "easily start and finish," he explained.

Asked if there were things Nintendo would never do in the smartphone marketplace, Iwata replied:

"We will not do anything that may hurt Nintendo IP. We will not do anything that may hurt Nintendo's brand image--that parents can feel safe giving their children access to it."

Iwata also made it clear that Nintendo will carefully consider business models for its mobile games so as not to jeopardize the appeal of its franchises.

"It's even more important for us to consider how we can get as many people around the world as possible to play Nintendo smart device apps, rather than to consider which payment system will earn the most money" -- Iwata

"Nintendo does not intend to choose payment methods that may hurt Nintendo's brand image or our IP, which parents feel comfortable letting their children play with," "Also, it's even more important for us to consider how we can get as many people around the world as possible to play Nintendo smart device apps, rather than to consider which payment system will earn the most money."

Iwata also cleared up the question of who would be developing Nintendo's mobile games. He said development on these games will be handled "mainly" by Nintendo. So why align with DeNA? Iwata said the company, which operates the Mobage platform, has expertise in the games-as-a-service model, which will be important for Nintendo's mobile titles.

Also in the story, the interviewer asked if iconic Nintendo designer Shigeru Miyamoto--who created the Mario, Zelda, and Donkey Kong franchises--would be working on any smartphone games. Iwata dodged the question. "As for any involvement of Mr. Miyamoto, we will discuss it when possible, but for now, understand that his priority is on the development of Wii U titles that will be launched this year," he said.

As for why Nintendo is making this move at all, Iwata said there exists a large community of gamers who own a smartphone or tablet but have no interest in a dedicated system like a 3DS. Releasing Nintendo franchises for smart devices is a way to meet these players where they are, and possibly entice them to buy a dedicated system some day.

"We have come to the stage where we can say that we will be able to develop and operate software which, in the end, will not hurt the value of Nintendo IP," he said. "But, rather, will become an opportunity for the great number of people around the world who own smart devices--but do not have interest in dedicated video game hardware--to be interested in Nintendo IP and eventually to become fans of our dedicated game systems."

The full interview is a fascinating read. Check out the whole story here.

Nintendo's big move into the smartphone market has been received positively by investors, as shares of the company skyrocketed by more than 30 percent yesterday. The company also announced that it had started work on a new system, known internally as the "NX." More details about this platform will be announced in 2016.

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#2  Edited By PikachuDude860
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Good read.

After reading this...I have a more, "open mind", to Nintendo messing around with mobile devices. Doesn't mean I like it, but if it helps them sell more consoles and make money, maybe it's what is best. Casuals will buy whatever, regardless. They don't care about the quality or content.

Those who don't know anything about the modern Nintendo, and who too lazy to try to understand, may become interested in Nintendo haardware.

If Nintendo plays their cards right, this could really help them.

Just keep your games far far away from PC, Sony, and Microsoft, Nintendo.

Oh, and Link.

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#3  Edited By deactivated-5b69bebd1b0b6
Member since 2009 • 6176 Posts

Only sheep could see this as a good thing. Let me tell you what will happen, as soon as Nintendo figure out that mobile gaming is making a shit ton of money, they will scrap the console business without batting an eyelid. Just like SEGA. Or console gamers will be in the back of their minds at the very least.

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#4 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41489 Posts

I'd believe it if it wasn't an announcement of your flip-flopping, Iwata. Way to damage control.

@Crossel777 said:

Only sheep could see this as a good thing. Let me tell you what will happen, as soon as Nintendo figure out that mobile gaming is making a shit ton of money, they will scrap the console business without batting an eyelid. Just like SEGA. Or console gamers will be in the back of their minds at the very least.

I'm a sheep and I don't see this as a good thing, and like I said if they were ever going to go third party, if they pull a stunt like scrap their consoles, I'm done with them.

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#5  Edited By PikachuDude860
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@Crossel777 said:

Only sheep could see this as a good thing. Let me tell you what will happen, as soon as Nintendo figure out that mobile gaming is making a shit ton of money, they will scrap the console business without batting an eyelid. Just like SEGA. Or console gamers will be in the back of their minds at the very least.

When you make your own games and hardware, you can do anything you want.

When you make games for other peoples hardware, you can only do what they'll allow you to do.

Nintendo's creativity would be limited on other people's hardware. Games like Skyward Sword, Wii Fit, and a ton of DS/3DS games could not of happened on Sony/Microsoft hardware.

That being said, I'll say this again, and over and over if need be. A NEW CEO COULD BE HORRIBLE FOR NINTENDO.

@nintendoboy16 said:

I'd believe it if it wasn't an announcement of your flip-flopping, Iwata. Way to damage control.

I'm a sheep and I don't see this as a good thing, and like I said if they were ever going to go third party, if they pull a stunt like scrap their consoles, I'm done with them.

Me too. Wouldn't even be the same company anymore. I rather them just go down with the ship.

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#6 PikachuDude860
Member since 2014 • 1810 Posts

....expected more views...Oh well. Always good to share gaming info.

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#7 TheEroica  Moderator
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@Crossel777: I worry about that approach as well... I mean, for me, I have several devices between ios and Android and I just don't play games on them... Sans pocket minecraft once in a while... So this news and buzz just doesn't make me feel anything game related...

But, I do worry that once they see the bread rolling in, will they choose to abandon the console market focus or will they invest their waterfall of mobile money into making something that competes on a broader scale?

Im not a happy Nintendo customer. Haven't been in many years, but I don't want them to cop out on gamers.

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#8 Ryno1179
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Here's the thing. If people wanted to play Nintendo games then they would buy a WiiU or a 3DS. I don't understand the logic of how playing a crap version of a Nintendo franchise on a cell phone is going to make those people run out and buy a Nintendo console. They might as well go 3rd party and just release their games on everything. I know many people that want to play Zelda and Mario but will not buy a $300 paper weight to do it. Oh and about that whole "When you make games for other peoples hardware, you can only do what they'll allow you to do." What hardware are you talking about because the most limited hardware for the last 2 generations has been Nintendo hardware.

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#9 PikachuDude860
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@ryno1179 said:

Here's the thing. If people wanted to play Nintendo games then they would buy a WiiU or a 3DS. I don't understand the logic of how playing a crap version of a Nintendo franchise on a cell phone is going to make those people run out and buy a Nintendo console. They might as well go 3rd party and just release their games on everything. I know many people that want to play Zelda and Mario but will not buy a $300 paper weight to do it. Oh and about that whole "When you make games for other peoples hardware, you can only do what they'll allow you to do." What hardware are you talking about because the most limited hardware for the last 2 generations has been Nintendo hardware.

I mean it like this...Let's say Nintendo was 3rd party in the 7th gen. They couldn't of made the Wii and DS. The games that took advantage of those system's uniqe features couldn't of happened on the PS3/PSP and Xbox 360.

Otherwise, you'd have to buy some sort of add-on just to play a game...That would suck.

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#10 bunchanumbers
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Its a solid plan. It gets Nintendo into the hands of as many people as possible. Its become apparent that the 'core' gamer doesn't care about Nintendo. Otherwise they would have bought Wii U or a 3DS. But as we all know Wii U isn't a big seller. This plan will bring Nintendo back into the hands of gamers who don't know about Nintendo. I don't know why the 'core' gamers here would even care about this.

As for other 3rd party developers who made games on mobile, most of them are still around and are still making console games. I sincerely doubt that Nintendo is going to fold over and be a mobile only company unless the 'core' gamer continues to ignore their hardware.

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#11 superbuuman
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@Crossel777 said:

Only sheep could see this as a good thing. Let me tell you what will happen, as soon as Nintendo figure out that mobile gaming is making a shit ton of money, they will scrap the console business without batting an eyelid. Just like SEGA. Or console gamers will be in the back of their minds at the very least.

Pretty much this ^ ...as a Nintendo fan, I am kinda worried. :P

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#12 StealthMonkey4
Member since 2009 • 7434 Posts

Well this pretty much confirms they've abandoned their core fanbase. Amiibos, motion controller and tablet screen garbage, and now a major focus on shallow mobile games with in app purchases. Funny how much Nintendo has flip flopped regarding mobile gaming.

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#14  Edited By TheEroica  Moderator
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@Minishdriveby: I just meant a broader scale in terms of the console market... The wiiu is rather limited in some more globally demanding features, (hardware, thus leading to a lack of demanded multiplats, and a poultry offering in terms of online gaming...) if they made their cake in mobile devices I hope they make a knockout next console... Build something that can play the hottest games and keep nailing the exclusive games... Shit they'd make me an instant customer...

... Cause there ain't many exclusive reasons on the other two to keep me loyal.

Truth is we still need to see how Nintendo plans on incorporating their franchises into the mobile landscape... I like reading things like, "we won't hurt our franchises"... yet I remain optimistically skeptical.

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#15 so_hai
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No one gives any other company even a quarter of the scrutiny when they decide to release on mobile phones. This must because Nintendo are held to a higher standard, and this must be because they have shown they are of a higher standard.

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#16 bunchanumbers
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@so_hai said:

No one gives any other company even a quarter of the scrutiny when they decide to release on mobile phones. This must because Nintendo are held to a higher standard, and this must be because they have shown they are of a higher standard.

Its kinda funny too because most of those people who hold nintendo to this higher standard don't even buy their stuff.

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#17  Edited By MirkoS77
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"We will not do anything that may hurt Nintendo IP. We will not do anything that may hurt Nintendo's brand image--that parents can feel safe giving their children access to it."

"The value of content generally tends to weaken in the digital world, and especially on smart devices, it is not easy to maintain the value of content," "We aim to explore ways where we will not devalue Nintendo IP and, rather, we can further improve the value."

This I see as dangerous ground to tread on. Iwata fears that in the digital arena it's difficult to maintain software value. He wishes to maintain that value. So what's his solution? To completely devalue it further through possible F2P models? Sorry Iwata, but placing the Mario/Zelda/Smash IPs into a F2P construct will absolutely harm the IPs in the eyes of your core fans, it will let them down, and it will lead those who aren't fans to believe your software holds no value in the first place with the expectations to come along with it. Placing ANY of your IPs into a F2P model IS devaluing them, you dope, it doesn't matter how much money it brings in after the fact.

Mobile and the model Nintendo have traditionally embraced are at great contrast, but there could've been a middle ground: there are games on mobile that you can pay a one time $15-20 fee and play forever. This is what I was expecting, and hoping, to see. I suppose Nintendo feels like F2P is the more profitable way to go, though in doing so it'd seem to draw a massive delineation in two distinct, opposing markets that cannot relate nor care for one another.

Well, I would've supported an iOS Advance Wars for $20. Would've loved it. Not going to touch anything Nintendo puts on mobile that's F2P. This is disappointing to hear.

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#18 SakusEnvoy
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Honestly, if these games are "quality, hit titles" like Nintendo is aiming for, it is hard to believe this will not negatively affect handheld sales in some way or form. There are already a large number of people who cannot justify purchasing a handheld console because they do the majority of their on-the-go gaming on smartphones. If smartphones actually begin to receive some fairly high quality, original content from Nintendo, it's not hard to imagine some people will no longer feel the need to purchase a 3DS (let's be honest, most people probably purchase it for first party Nintendo content).

Technically speaking, the primary advantage of a 3DS over say, a phone, is that it has physical buttons. Other than that, it is technically inferior in just about any way you can think of. Even the New 3DS runs far, far behind the average smartphone in terms of CPU, GPU, RAM, resolution - especially resolution.

On the other hand, I feel that smartphones and tablets have a very limited impact on console popularity, at least outside of Japan. Phones and tablets simply cannot come close to rendering the experience of playing a title like Zelda Wii U or Uncharted 4. They could try, but they will fall flat, not because they lack buttons or because of their payment model, but because part of what makes console gaming enjoyable is playing high quality, big-budget titles on a big screen. Smartphones and tablets provide the complete opposite experience. Handhelds provide an experience somewhere in the middle, which makes them vulnerable to sales loss.

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#19  Edited By superbuuman
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@MirkoS77 said:

"We will not do anything that may hurt Nintendo IP. We will not do anything that may hurt Nintendo's brand image--that parents can feel safe giving their children access to it."

"The value of content generally tends to weaken in the digital world, and especially on smart devices, it is not easy to maintain the value of content," "We aim to explore ways where we will not devalue Nintendo IP and, rather, we can further improve the value."

This I see as dangerous ground to tread on. Iwata fears that in the digital arena it's difficult to maintain software value. He wishes to maintain that value. So what's his solution? To completely devalue it further through possible F2P models? Sorry Iwata, but placing the Mario/Zelda/Smash IPs into a F2P construct will absolutely harm the IPs in the eyes of your core fans, it will let them down, and it will lead those who aren't fans to believe your software holds no value in the first place with the expectations to come along with it. Placing ANY of your IPs into a F2P model IS devaluing them, you dope, it doesn't matter how much money it brings in after the fact.

Mobile and the model Nintendo have traditionally embraced are at great contrast, but there could've been a middle ground: there are games on mobile that you can pay a one time $15-20 fee and play forever. This is what I was expecting, and hoping, to see. I suppose Nintendo feels like F2P is the more profitable way to go, though in doing so it'd seem to draw a massive delineation in two distinct, opposing markets that cannot relate nor care for one another.

Well, I would've supported an iOS Advance Wars for $20. Would've loved it. Not going to touch anything Nintendo puts on mobile that's F2P. This is disappointing to hear.

^ Super Mario Bros level 1-1...to continue to level 1-2...pay $$ or wait 24hours.. I really hope it does not become this. :P

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#20 MirkoS77
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@pikachudude860 said:

That being said, I'll say this again, and over and over if need be. A NEW CEO COULD BE HORRIBLE FOR NINTENDO.

I have to wonder.....at this point, what could Iwata do that could be much worse than what he's currently doing? Would you still be saying this if Iwata poured gasoline around the perimeter of NCL and lit a match, laughing while watching it burn? I've long given up hope this man will ever be gone, but can't even begin to fathom how it could get much worse.

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#21 so_hai
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@Crossel777 said:

Only sheep could see this as a good thing. Let me tell you what will happen, as soon as Nintendo figure out that mobile gaming is making a shit ton of money, they will scrap the console business without batting an eyelid. Just like SEGA. Or console gamers will be in the back of their minds at the very least.

Ridiculous circumstance. Why would Nintendo give its competitors in the console market a free hand-out of its marketshare? It makes no sense.

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#22 so_hai
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@pikachudude860 said:

That being said, I'll say this again, and over and over if need be. A NEW CEO COULD BE HORRIBLE FOR NINTENDO.

That's true for all companies at all times. It doesn't apply to Nintendo especially.

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#23 PikachuDude860
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@MirkoS77 said:
@pikachudude860 said:

That being said, I'll say this again, and over and over if need be. A NEW CEO COULD BE HORRIBLE FOR NINTENDO.

I have to wonder.....at this point, what could Iwata do that could be much worse than what he's currently doing? Would you still be saying this if Iwata poured gasoline around the perimeter of NCL and lit a match, laughing while watching it burn? I've long given up hope this man will ever be gone, but can't even begin to fathom how it could get much worse.

Hmm...well, it can go either way. Iwata can ruin things, or a new CEO could ruins things. Or one of them can make everything better.

If Nintendo does what @superbuuman said, then no...Just no. No. No. No.

I half and half on this whole mobile thing. If it's just a Miiverse App, and maybe games like Pokemon Trozei, Brain Age, Puzzles and Dragons, and some of those random E-Shop-ish games they come out with, Then I think it could work out. But if it's stuff like New Super Mario Bros. Mobile, Kirby's SmartPhone Land, Zelda: Curse of the Microtransactions, and Pokemon F2P edition, then I don't know what to think. That's semi 3rd party.

I'm just scared, is all. A new CEO could really help. But then again, A new CEO could listen to investors, (who I'm sure know nothing about gaming), and go 3rd party so they can try to get rich. "Yeahhh, We don't care about ruining the over 30 year history of Nintendo, we just want money. Because that is all that matters."

Which is worse???

Sometimes, I just wish Nintendo would come here to System Wars and just ASK us what we want. What will it take for us to buy their consoles...

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#24 SakusEnvoy
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@pikachudude860 said:

@MirkoS77 said:

I have to wonder.....at this point, what could Iwata do that could be much worse than what he's currently doing? Would you still be saying this if Iwata poured gasoline around the perimeter of NCL and lit a match, laughing while watching it burn? I've long given up hope this man will ever be gone, but can't even begin to fathom how it could get much worse.

Hmm...well, it can go either way. Iwata can ruin things, or a new CEO could ruins things. Or one of them can make everything better.

If Nintendo does what @superbuuman said, then no...Just no. No. No. No.

I half and half on this whole mobile thing. If it's just a Miiverse App, and maybe games like Pokemon Trozei, Brain Age, Puzzles and Dragons, and some of those random E-Shop-ish games they come out with, Then I think it could work out. But if it's stuff like New Super Mario Bros. Mobile, Kirby's SmartPhone Land, Zelda: Curse of the Microtransactions, and Pokemon F2P edition, then I don't know what to think. That's semi 3rd party.

I'm just scared, is all. A new CEO could really help. But then again, A new CEO could listen to investors, (who I'm sure know nothing about gaming), and go 3rd party so they can try to get rich. "Yeahhh, We don't care about ruining the over 30 year history of Nintendo, we just want money. Because that is all that matters."

Which is worse???

Sometimes, I just wish Nintendo would come here to System Wars and just ASK us what we want. What will it take for us to buy their consoles...

I think the closest comparison we might have to what we can expect would be something like the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series. Games that leverage the Nintendo IP, including their main characters, and are released for a fraction of the price of their retail games. I'm not suggesting Mario vs. Donkey Kong will actually go mobile, as they specifically said they don't intend to make ports, but I think it's a good example of a "bite-sized" ongoing Nintendo series that they already have. I do think they will want to specifically leverage Nintendo characters in order to stand out on the marketplace and not just release random puzzle games.

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#26 MirkoS77
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@bunchanumbers said:

Its a solid plan. It gets Nintendo into the hands of as many people as possible. Its become apparent that the 'core' gamer doesn't care about Nintendo. Otherwise they would have bought Wii U or a 3DS. But as we all know Wii U isn't a big seller. This plan will bring Nintendo back into the hands of gamers who don't know about Nintendo. I don't know why the 'core' gamers here would even care about this.

As for other 3rd party developers who made games on mobile, most of them are still around and are still making console games. I sincerely doubt that Nintendo is going to fold over and be a mobile only company unless the 'core' gamer continues to ignore their hardware.

I'd say it's a solid plan had Nintendo adamantly took a stand against the F2P model. I'm surprised that, given what they've said and their position on maintaining software value, they're even humoring the notion. F2P devalues software. It's as simple as that. And I'm not even speaking how it might end up performing fiscally. Just overall consumer perception. "Oh hey, it's F2P Advance Wars! Free!". People will begin to attribute these IPs with free. That's dangerous, and is not a conducive environment for expansion or bringing people into an entirely different ecosystem when those IPs suddenly DO hold value. As in, $59.99 more of a value, plus a (at minimum, $200 system investment) for the system.

Wtf is Nintendo thinking? Do they think these F2P customers are gladly going to jump on that bandwagon??

Nintendo doing this seems like a band-aid for problems they aren't aware of or are mistakenly trying to fix. They probably wonder why their business is suffering with the core so. Many things, their refusal against third parties, their lackluster take on online, their bad accounts and policies (at least that will soon be fixed, though at what expense), the awful software diversity, their marketing, their negative stigma in gamer's minds.

A more solid plan would be for them to focus on fixing those problems, but I doubt they are even aware that's what's causing them such trouble.

@superbuuman: God I hope not, but fear yes.

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#27 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17637 Posts
@pikachudude860 said:

@MirkoS77 said:

I have to wonder.....at this point, what could Iwata do that could be much worse than what he's currently doing? Would you still be saying this if Iwata poured gasoline around the perimeter of NCL and lit a match, laughing while watching it burn? I've long given up hope this man will ever be gone, but can't even begin to fathom how it could get much worse.

I'm just scared, is all. A new CEO could really help. But then again, A new CEO could listen to investors, (who I'm sure know nothing about gaming), and go mobile F2P so they can try to get rich. "Yeahhh, We don't care about ruining the over 30 year history of Nintendo, we just want money. Because that is all that matters."

Which is worse???

I fixed the bolded underlined for you.

What, exactly, do you think is happening here? The defense of being able to use Iwata as a last bastion of hope against greedy shareholders and their schemes is gone. He seems to have, indeed (to my great sorrow) "sold out" to F2P. I could only see also making games for third parties as a blessing in comparison to that.

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#28  Edited By bunchanumbers
Member since 2013 • 5709 Posts

@MirkoS77 said:

@bunchanumbers said:

Its a solid plan. It gets Nintendo into the hands of as many people as possible. Its become apparent that the 'core' gamer doesn't care about Nintendo. Otherwise they would have bought Wii U or a 3DS. But as we all know Wii U isn't a big seller. This plan will bring Nintendo back into the hands of gamers who don't know about Nintendo. I don't know why the 'core' gamers here would even care about this.

As for other 3rd party developers who made games on mobile, most of them are still around and are still making console games. I sincerely doubt that Nintendo is going to fold over and be a mobile only company unless the 'core' gamer continues to ignore their hardware.

I'd say it's a solid plan had Nintendo adamantly took a stand against the F2P model. I'm surprised that, given what they've said and their position on maintaining software value, they're even humoring the notion. F2P devalues software. It's as simple as that. And I'm not even speaking how it might end up performing fiscally. Just overall consumer perception. "Oh hey, it's F2P Advance Wars! Free!". People will begin to attribute these IPs with free. That's dangerous, and is not a conducive environment for expansion or bringing people into an entirely different ecosystem when those IPs suddenly DO hold value. As in, $59.99 more of a value, plus a (at minimum, $200 system investment) for the system.

Wtf is Nintendo thinking? Do they think these F2P customers are gladly going to jump on that bandwagon??

Nintendo doing this seems like a band-aid for problems they aren't aware of or are mistakenly trying to fix. They probably wonder why their business is suffering with the core so. Many things, their refusal against third parties, their lackluster take on online, their bad accounts and policies (at least that will soon be fixed, though at what expense), the awful software diversity, their marketing, their negative stigma in gamer's minds.

A more solid plan would be for them to focus on fixing those problems, but I doubt they are even aware that's what's causing them such trouble.

@superbuuman: God I hope not, but fear yes.

They are still working out pricing models with games. The things that need to happen is that they need to be accessible, low on price, and filled with Nintendo charm. There's no guarantees they will make anything along the lines of a f2p advance wars.

As for their pricing models, most people will look at a f2p game before they shell out $20 for games like Square was/is trying to do. What is the first thing people say when they see the price tag? 'OMG I'm not paying $20 for that!' But will immediately spend $30 on Candy Crush or some other pointless diversion.

Nintendo has done everything possible to get gamers to buy Wii U and nothing has worked. It makes sense that Nintendo is going this route and they could have sold out super hard. They haven't done that and they are being cautious. They are walking into this with their eyes open and I see no issue with their direction with this. Its pretty clear that what they were doing was not working.

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#29  Edited By PikachuDude860
Member since 2014 • 1810 Posts

@MirkoS77 said:
@pikachudude860 said:

@MirkoS77 said:

I have to wonder.....at this point, what could Iwata do that could be much worse than what he's currently doing? Would you still be saying this if Iwata poured gasoline around the perimeter of NCL and lit a match, laughing while watching it burn? I've long given up hope this man will ever be gone, but can't even begin to fathom how it could get much worse.

I'm just scared, is all. A new CEO could really help. But then again, A new CEO could listen to investors, (who I'm sure know nothing about gaming), and go mobile F2P so they can try to get rich. "Yeahhh, We don't care about ruining the over 30 year history of Nintendo, we just want money. Because that is all that matters."

Which is worse???

I fixed the bolded underlined for you.

What, exactly, do you think is happening here? The defense of being able to use Iwata as a last bastion of hope against greedy shareholders and their schemes is gone. He seems to have, indeed (to my great sorrow) "sold out" to F2P. I could only see also making games for third parties as a blessing in comparison to that.

If that is the truth, then Nintendo is doomed. I pray that it doesn't come to that.

Let's look at it like this. Remember the "NX"? Well a Youtuber named AlphaOmegaSin broughtup a good idea. What if this new "service" they're working on will make all Nintendo console games availbe via virtual console? NES. SNES. N64. Gamecube. Wii. All of which can be accessed from the NX and maybe even the Wii U and the New 3DS. If that happens, plus all the 1st party games, and no games tied to hardware, that would really be something. No need to even think about going 3rd party.

As for smartphones...Maybe they'll work with the NX somehow? Nintendo apps? I dunno. This whole thing can be either fantastic or horrible.

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#30 bunchanumbers
Member since 2013 • 5709 Posts

@pikachudude860 said:

@MirkoS77 said:
@pikachudude860 said:

@MirkoS77 said:

I have to wonder.....at this point, what could Iwata do that could be much worse than what he's currently doing? Would you still be saying this if Iwata poured gasoline around the perimeter of NCL and lit a match, laughing while watching it burn? I've long given up hope this man will ever be gone, but can't even begin to fathom how it could get much worse.

I'm just scared, is all. A new CEO could really help. But then again, A new CEO could listen to investors, (who I'm sure know nothing about gaming), and go mobile F2P so they can try to get rich. "Yeahhh, We don't care about ruining the over 30 year history of Nintendo, we just want money. Because that is all that matters."

Which is worse???

I fixed the bolded underlined for you.

What, exactly, do you think is happening here? The defense of being able to use Iwata as a last bastion of hope against greedy shareholders and their schemes is gone. He seems to have, indeed (to my great sorrow) "sold out" to F2P. I could only see also making games for third parties as a blessing in comparison to that.

If that is the truth, then Nintendo is doomed. I pray that it doesn't come to that.

Let's look at it like this. Remember the "NX"? Well a Youtuber named AlphaOmegaSin broughtup a good idea. What if this new "service" they're working on will make all Nintendo console games availbe via virtual console? NES. SNES. N64. Gamecube. Wii. All of which can be acsesed from the NX and maybe even the Wii U and the New 3DS.

As for smartphones...Maybe they'll work with the NX somehow? Nintendo apps? I dunno. This whole thing can be either fantastic or horrible.

Iwata's plan is solid. I hate to say it but in a way its like getting people hooked on Nintendo like its a drug. Then when they can't get enough of it, they will roll out the games on the handheld/console and watch the sales increase. The real question is how does NX factor into the game. I'm thinking that its a development platform like ios and android. This will keep their platform closed and probably a way to fight piracy.

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#31 SakusEnvoy
Member since 2009 • 4764 Posts

@pikachudude860 said:

@MirkoS77 said:

I fixed the bolded underlined for you.

What, exactly, do you think is happening here? The defense of being able to use Iwata as a last bastion of hope against greedy shareholders and their schemes is gone. He seems to have, indeed (to my great sorrow) "sold out" to F2P. I could only see also making games for third parties as a blessing in comparison to that.

If that is the truth, then Nintendo is doomed. I pray that it doesn't come to that.

Let's look at it like this. Remember the "NX"? Well a Youtuber named AlphaOmegaSin broughtup a good idea. What if this new "service" they're working on will make all Nintendo console games availbe via virtual console? NES. SNES. N64. Gamecube. Wii. All of which can be acsesed from the NX and maybe even the Wii U and the New 3DS.

As for smartphones...Maybe they'll work with the NX somehow? Nintendo apps? I dunno. This whole thing can be either fantastic or horrible.

The service itself is designed to capture every system that Nintendo games run on (mobile, tablet, 3DS, Wii U, NX) as well as PC probably just for convenience. I imagine its primary purpose will probably be just to track rewards, trophies, game purchases, Nintendo points, online play, etc. The games that will be available through it will likely still be hardware-specific, with some potential for cross-play when the same game is available on more than one device.

The VC is an old concept though. I'd love to see them revitalize it with more titles, but they seem content to just keep going at their slow pace.

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#32 bunchanumbers
Member since 2013 • 5709 Posts

@SakusEnvoy said:

@pikachudude860 said:

@MirkoS77 said:

I fixed the bolded underlined for you.

What, exactly, do you think is happening here? The defense of being able to use Iwata as a last bastion of hope against greedy shareholders and their schemes is gone. He seems to have, indeed (to my great sorrow) "sold out" to F2P. I could only see also making games for third parties as a blessing in comparison to that.

If that is the truth, then Nintendo is doomed. I pray that it doesn't come to that.

Let's look at it like this. Remember the "NX"? Well a Youtuber named AlphaOmegaSin broughtup a good idea. What if this new "service" they're working on will make all Nintendo console games availbe via virtual console? NES. SNES. N64. Gamecube. Wii. All of which can be acsesed from the NX and maybe even the Wii U and the New 3DS.

As for smartphones...Maybe they'll work with the NX somehow? Nintendo apps? I dunno. This whole thing can be either fantastic or horrible.

The service itself is designed to capture every system that Nintendo games run on (mobile, tablet, 3DS, Wii U, NX) as well as PC probably just for convenience. I imagine its primary purpose will probably be just to track rewards, trophies, game purchases, Nintendo points, online play, etc. The games that will be available through it will likely still be hardware-specific, with some potential for cross-play when the same game is available on more than one device.

The VC is an old concept though. I'd love to see them revitalize it with more titles, but they seem content to just keep going at their slow pace.

If memory serves they are actually cancelling or letting the virtual console trademark expire. It most likely means they're going to rebrand it under a new name. What that name will be is anybody's guess though.

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#33  Edited By PikachuDude860
Member since 2014 • 1810 Posts

@bunchanumbers: Could it be...Quality of Life? That was supposed to be announced in 2016? 0_o

Hmm... but 2 home consoles doesn't sound right.

Handheld + IOS/Android fusion sounds better. Play IOS games on Nintendo systems. No reason to own a SmartPhone.

I had an idea like that...

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#34 PikachuDude860
Member since 2014 • 1810 Posts

@SakusEnvoy:

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#35 m_machine024
Member since 2006 • 15874 Posts

Hmmm not sure why people are being paranoid about this. I still think Nintendo will be doing the same they've been doing while making mobile games on the side. And that's it.

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#36  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17637 Posts

@bunchanumbers said:

@MirkoS77 said:

I'd say it's a solid plan had Nintendo adamantly took a stand against the F2P model. I'm surprised that, given what they've said and their position on maintaining software value, they're even humoring the notion. F2P devalues software. It's as simple as that. And I'm not even speaking how it might end up performing fiscally. Just overall consumer perception. "Oh hey, it's F2P Advance Wars! Free!". People will begin to attribute these IPs with free. That's dangerous, and is not a conducive environment for expansion or bringing people into an entirely different ecosystem when those IPs suddenly DO hold value. As in, $59.99 more of a value, plus a (at minimum, $200 system investment) for the system.

Wtf is Nintendo thinking? Do they think these F2P customers are gladly going to jump on that bandwagon??

Nintendo doing this seems like a band-aid for problems they aren't aware of or are mistakenly trying to fix. They probably wonder why their business is suffering with the core so. Many things, their refusal against third parties, their lackluster take on online, their bad accounts and policies (at least that will soon be fixed, though at what expense), the awful software diversity, their marketing, their negative stigma in gamer's minds.

A more solid plan would be for them to focus on fixing those problems, but I doubt they are even aware that's what's causing them such trouble.

@superbuuman: God I hope not, but fear yes.

They are still working out pricing models with games. The things that need to happen is that they need to be accessible, low on price, and filled with Nintendo charm. There's no guarantees they will make anything along the lines of a f2p advance wars.

As for their pricing models, most people will look at a f2p game before they shell out $20 for games like Square was/is trying to do. What is the first thing people say when they see the price tag? 'OMG I'm not paying $20 for that!' But will immediately spend $30 on Candy Crush or some other pointless diversion.

Nintendo has done everything possible to get gamers to buy Wii U and nothing has worked. It makes sense that Nintendo is going this route and they could have sold out super hard. They haven't done that and they are being cautious. They are walking into this with their eyes open and I see no issue with their direction with this. Its pretty clear that what they were doing was not working.

Nintendo has certainly not done everything possible to get gamers to buy a U. Not even close. They have in fact continually refused throughout the years to acknowledge and fix many things core audience has been clamoring for for ages and that Sony and MS have taken heed to and have been justly rewarded. It remains to be seen how powerful Nintendo's brandname and IPs will hold sway in the mobile market. It's very possible that there would be a large segment of mobile users who would not hesitate to pay to price of a Square game if it's a well made Nintendo game using a well known IP. I would've been one of them.

The point here is not that Nintendo is looking at different pricing, it's that they are even considering F2P to begin with. Why? Because F2P games have to be fundamentally designed so that the mechanics of the game are altered in such a way as to revolve around economics. I don't care about Nintendo investigating varying prices for full fledged, complete standalone games, what worries me is hearing this:

"I understand that, unlike the package model for dedicated game systems, the free-to-start type of business model is more widely adopted for games on smart devices, and the free-to-start model will naturally be an option for us to consider,"

Ugh. Do not even think an option, because once that consideration has past the point to commitment, it dictates game design from that point on. Yes, there are varying degrees to IaPs and MTs in mobile games, some are optional, but pulling economics into game design impacts things like balance. Mostly all mobile games I've played that use IaPs (even if they start out well) hit a wall of progression spelled out like $. It's just all a slippery slope I'd rather not see Nintendo ever think about.

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#37 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41489 Posts

@superbuuman said:
@MirkoS77 said:

"We will not do anything that may hurt Nintendo IP. We will not do anything that may hurt Nintendo's brand image--that parents can feel safe giving their children access to it."

"The value of content generally tends to weaken in the digital world, and especially on smart devices, it is not easy to maintain the value of content," "We aim to explore ways where we will not devalue Nintendo IP and, rather, we can further improve the value."

This I see as dangerous ground to tread on. Iwata fears that in the digital arena it's difficult to maintain software value. He wishes to maintain that value. So what's his solution? To completely devalue it further through possible F2P models? Sorry Iwata, but placing the Mario/Zelda/Smash IPs into a F2P construct will absolutely harm the IPs in the eyes of your core fans, it will let them down, and it will lead those who aren't fans to believe your software holds no value in the first place with the expectations to come along with it. Placing ANY of your IPs into a F2P model IS devaluing them, you dope, it doesn't matter how much money it brings in after the fact.

Mobile and the model Nintendo have traditionally embraced are at great contrast, but there could've been a middle ground: there are games on mobile that you can pay a one time $15-20 fee and play forever. This is what I was expecting, and hoping, to see. I suppose Nintendo feels like F2P is the more profitable way to go, though in doing so it'd seem to draw a massive delineation in two distinct, opposing markets that cannot relate nor care for one another.

Well, I would've supported an iOS Advance Wars for $20. Would've loved it. Not going to touch anything Nintendo puts on mobile that's F2P. This is disappointing to hear.

^ Super Mario Bros level 1-1...to continue to level 1-2...pay $$ or wait 24hours.. I really hope it does not become this. :P

Nintendo's version of Final Fantasy: All the Bravest. And some pro "Nintendo should go third party/mobile" advocates say they'd never do it.

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#38  Edited By bulby_g
Member since 2005 • 1861 Posts

I don't think they will ditch the console/handheld market if there is still money to be made even if they are making a ton on mobile stuff. The company will just get bigger if anything. Microsoft make loads more money elsewhere but they still run their console business.

Personally I think this can only be good for Nintendo if they implement it correctly. They seem to be going about it in the right way.

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#39 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

Nintendo could very well charge out right for their titles. No one has a problem paying for Minecraft.

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#40  Edited By Dogswithguns
Member since 2007 • 11359 Posts

These days people really love their smartphones... know what they say.. if you can't beat them, join them.. that's Nintendo is doing.

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#41  Edited By nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41489 Posts

@Dogswithguns said:

These days people really love their smartphones... know what they say.. if you can't beat them, join them.. that's Nintendo is doing.

By that logic, they would've joined Sony a while ago.

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#42 Shinobishyguy
Member since 2006 • 22928 Posts

Nintendo has been experimenting with f2p titles on the 3ds like steel diver and rusty's baseball, I don't see how this is a surprise that they're considering the pricing model. The real question here is how they're going to handle it and how their going to leverage their IP's. I think its safe to say that we won't be seeing mainline mario or zelda titles on mobile but spinoffs based off of them seem like fair game