It's time to rethink Japan's place in the industry

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#1 Edited by lordlors (5610 posts) -

Japan's influence has been wading at the start of the HD era but was the country really that influential after the 90s?

In Japan, Blizzard Entertainment, Valve, etc. are unknown. PC gaming remains a niche. There are a lot of genres that have no presence in Japan such as RTS, MOBA, and MMO. Ask an average Japanese gamer what an RTS is and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't know. In other countries almost all genres have a presence. There is no visible indie scene. E-sport is dominated by Western games. The Japanese market is Japanese centric and most Western games still find it hard to gain a foothold.

Doesn't this bother you that the supposed nation that is one of the most influential in the video game industry has a pretty insular world? No wonder Japanese devs are struggling to make games now that can capture the audience outside of its borders. Of course there will be exceptions like Dark Souls but I'm talking about the majority here.

#2 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (7323 posts) -

Well, I for one am glad they are isolated. They might make games more like western developers are making otherwise, and I prefer the games currently coming out of Japan.

#3 Edited by Gue1 (10197 posts) -

it makes me sad to say it because most western games are dull, boring and generic as fuck but Japan is irrelevant in every front. The quality of Japanese games went down the drain at the beginning of the last generation.

#4 Posted by Blabadon (26588 posts) -

I wish a lot of Japanese games would stop sharing the same art style. Same with many western games but to a lesser extent.

#5 Edited by Shewgenja (9620 posts) -

Anyone playing the Demon/Dark Souls series is glad you are wrong.

#6 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (7323 posts) -

@Shewgenja said:

Anyone playing the Demon/Dark Souls series is glad you are wrong.

Those games are just bad, though.

#7 Posted by mems_1224 (47254 posts) -

@Blabadon said:

I wish a lot of Japanese games would stop sharing the same art style. Same with many western games but to a lesser extent.

I wish they would just stop with the anime bullshit. That and the bad writing/voice acting when porting to America.

#8 Edited by intotheminx (703 posts) -

They were the king of the 90's. The rpgs during that era are unmatched to this day.

#9 Edited by turtlethetaffer (16789 posts) -

@PurpleMan5000 said:

Well, I for one am glad they are isolated. They might make games more like western developers are making otherwise, and I prefer the games currently coming out of Japan.

My thoughts exactly.

#10 Posted by Aljosa23 (25121 posts) -

They've obviously calmed down a bit but are still making games. It's not like handhelds and Nintendo just ceased to exist because top tier developers of yesteryear like SEGA and Konami are shit now. Though I must admit it is funny that you mentioned Blizzard as if they're still relevant today. Same with the RTS genre lol that's also dead.

#11 Edited by uninspiredcup (8941 posts) -

My friends, Japan has a different lifestyle. While we in the West are incredibly lazy, the Japan peoples lifestyle has them doing stuff, thus, they have no time for pc gaming. An accessible console with a specific type of game is logical.

#12 Posted by hiphops_savior (7941 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: Japan has one of the highest population density in the world. There are plenty of opportunities to pull out your handheld during commute. Ditto with most urban areas.

#13 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (13654 posts) -

Who cares ! Japan doesn't need us and if they don't want to expand then thats their business, they can sustain themselves just fine.

#14 Edited by uninspiredcup (8941 posts) -

Most Japan work 28 hours a day and sleep in tiny little compact rooms. Answer incredibly obviose. Incredibly so.

#15 Posted by Blabadon (26588 posts) -

@mems_1224 said:

@Blabadon said:

I wish a lot of Japanese games would stop sharing the same art style. Same with many western games but to a lesser extent.

I wish they would just stop with the anime bullshit. That and the bad writing/voice acting when porting to America.

I'm semi-okay with anime when the games aren't dripping with yuck like 999. The anime there is grounded enough that I really bought into the story.

But the sheer redundancy that so many Japanese games bring with their anime art styles is annoying, so I can agree. Also, fix the writing and voice acting, agreed. Especially the former. Anyone who's played Resident Evil Revelations know's what's up.

#16 Posted by nicolas_aoi (12 posts) -

i love japanese games, i wish that japan came back on the top. i enjoy play western and japanese games!

#17 Edited by Newhopes (4582 posts) -

I find most western games bland so I'll keep buying my Japanese games, more than enough games to keep me busy.

#18 Posted by Alcapello (953 posts) -

Only standout WD is Rockstar and Falllout Vegas devs at this point.

#19 Posted by Aljosa23 (25121 posts) -

@Blabadon said:

@mems_1224 said:

@Blabadon said:

I wish a lot of Japanese games would stop sharing the same art style. Same with many western games but to a lesser extent.

I wish they would just stop with the anime bullshit. That and the bad writing/voice acting when porting to America.

I'm semi-okay with anime when the games aren't dripping with yuck like 999. The anime there is grounded enough that I really bought into the story.

But the sheer redundancy that so many Japanese games bring with their anime art styles is annoying, so I can agree. Also, fix the writing and voice acting, agreed. Especially the former. Anyone who's played Resident Evil Revelations know's what's up.

To be fair, the voice acting bit has to do with Japanese developers being cheap in that area. Their sales have dropped considerably so it's impossible for them to spend heavily in that area while at the same time not compromising other aspects of the game.

As for writing, 99% of games have shit writing aimed towards manbabies and the geek demographic. That isn't a Japanese exclusive trait.

#20 Posted by mems_1224 (47254 posts) -

@Aljosa23 said:

@Blabadon said:

@mems_1224 said:

@Blabadon said:

I wish a lot of Japanese games would stop sharing the same art style. Same with many western games but to a lesser extent.

I wish they would just stop with the anime bullshit. That and the bad writing/voice acting when porting to America.

I'm semi-okay with anime when the games aren't dripping with yuck like 999. The anime there is grounded enough that I really bought into the story.

But the sheer redundancy that so many Japanese games bring with their anime art styles is annoying, so I can agree. Also, fix the writing and voice acting, agreed. Especially the former. Anyone who's played Resident Evil Revelations know's what's up.

To be fair, the voice acting bit has to do with Japanese developers being cheap in that area. Their sales have dropped considerably so it's impossible for them to spend heavily in that area while at the same time not compromising other aspects of the game.

As for writing, 99% of games have shit writing aimed towards manbabies and the geek demographic. That isn't a Japanese exclusive trait.

Except Japanese games are especially horrible

#21 Posted by Aljosa23 (25121 posts) -

@mems_1224: Who cares? At a certain point bad is bad and discussing varying levels between bad and shit are pointless. It's like with reviews, no one is going care about the difference between a 2 and a 4.

#22 Edited by SambaLele (5424 posts) -

@PurpleMan5000 said:

@Shewgenja said:

Anyone playing the Demon/Dark Souls series is glad you are wrong.

Those games are just bad, though.

Now that they've been repeated to death, yes. But at the time of the first Demon's Souls, it was a very refreshing experience from the regen health FPSes that were flooding the market.

@intotheminx: I second that.

#23 Posted by mems_1224 (47254 posts) -

@Aljosa23 said:

@mems_1224: Who cares? At a certain point bad is bad and discussing varying levels between bad and shit are pointless. It's like with reviews, no one is going care about the difference between a 2 and a 4.

There is a difference. The writing in CoD games is bad but tolerable. The writing in Persona 4 is fucking atrocious.

#24 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (7323 posts) -

@SambaLele said:

@PurpleMan5000 said:

@Shewgenja said:

Anyone playing the Demon/Dark Souls series is glad you are wrong.

Those games are just bad, though.

Now that they've been repeated to death, yes. But at the time of the first Demon's Souls, it was a very refreshing experience from the regen health FPSes that were flooding the market.

Eh. I could only stomach a few hours of Demon's Souls. There are plenty of games that aren't FPS that are a lot of fun while being challenging. From last gen, Ninja Gaiden 2, Bayonetta, Valkyria Chronicles, and The Last Remnant come to mind.

#25 Posted by Aljosa23 (25121 posts) -

@mems_1224 said:

@Aljosa23 said:

@mems_1224: Who cares? At a certain point bad is bad and discussing varying levels between bad and shit are pointless. It's like with reviews, no one is going care about the difference between a 2 and a 4.

There is a difference. The writing in CoD games is bad but tolerable. The writing in Persona 4 is fucking atrocious.

Out of all the options you could have listed you pick Persona 4? LOL

You're either trolling or an idiot

#26 Posted by Alcapello (953 posts) -

@mems_1224 said:

@Aljosa23 said:

@Blabadon said:

@mems_1224 said:

@Blabadon said:

I wish a lot of Japanese games would stop sharing the same art style. Same with many western games but to a lesser extent.

I wish they would just stop with the anime bullshit. That and the bad writing/voice acting when porting to America.

I'm semi-okay with anime when the games aren't dripping with yuck like 999. The anime there is grounded enough that I really bought into the story.

But the sheer redundancy that so many Japanese games bring with their anime art styles is annoying, so I can agree. Also, fix the writing and voice acting, agreed. Especially the former. Anyone who's played Resident Evil Revelations know's what's up.

To be fair, the voice acting bit has to do with Japanese developers being cheap in that area. Their sales have dropped considerably so it's impossible for them to spend heavily in that area while at the same time not compromising other aspects of the game.

As for writing, 99% of games have shit writing aimed towards manbabies and the geek demographic. That isn't a Japanese exclusive trait.

Except Japanese games are especially horrible

You probably never has a GF at a young age.

#27 Posted by mems_1224 (47254 posts) -

@Aljosa23 said:

@mems_1224 said:

@Aljosa23 said:

@mems_1224: Who cares? At a certain point bad is bad and discussing varying levels between bad and shit are pointless. It's like with reviews, no one is going care about the difference between a 2 and a 4.

There is a difference. The writing in CoD games is bad but tolerable. The writing in Persona 4 is fucking atrocious.

Out of all the options you could have listed you pick Persona 4? LOL

You're either trolling or an idiot

You actually think the writing in Persona 4 is good? Because the conversations between characters is atrocious most of the time.

#28 Edited by AmazonAngry (945 posts) -

Definitely not the powerhouse they use to be, but there are still titles coming from japan that garner followings and new prescence/mechanics that are starting to be mimiced by other devs.

Souls series - lords of the fallen, bound by flame for example.

#29 Posted by Aljosa23 (25121 posts) -

@mems_1224 said:

@Aljosa23 said:

@mems_1224 said:

@Aljosa23 said:

@mems_1224: Who cares? At a certain point bad is bad and discussing varying levels between bad and shit are pointless. It's like with reviews, no one is going care about the difference between a 2 and a 4.

There is a difference. The writing in CoD games is bad but tolerable. The writing in Persona 4 is fucking atrocious.

Out of all the options you could have listed you pick Persona 4? LOL

You're either trolling or an idiot

You actually think the writing in Persona 4 is good? Because the conversations between characters is atrocious most of the time.

I never said anything about it being good, it's just a weird example. The game is about high school kids and for the most part... they are written and sound like high school kids. The game tries and nails the small town feel really well. Besides, Atlus has some of the best localization staff in the industry and there are way more offensive examples like Final Fantasy XIII or even worse, Star Ocean 4.

#30 Posted by mems_1224 (47254 posts) -

@Aljosa23 said:

@mems_1224 said:

@Aljosa23 said:

@mems_1224 said:

@Aljosa23 said:

@mems_1224: Who cares? At a certain point bad is bad and discussing varying levels between bad and shit are pointless. It's like with reviews, no one is going care about the difference between a 2 and a 4.

There is a difference. The writing in CoD games is bad but tolerable. The writing in Persona 4 is fucking atrocious.

Out of all the options you could have listed you pick Persona 4? LOL

You're either trolling or an idiot

You actually think the writing in Persona 4 is good? Because the conversations between characters is atrocious most of the time.

I never said anything about it being good, it's just a weird example. The game is about high school kids and for the most part... they are written and sound like high school kids. The game tries and nails the small town feel really well. Besides, Atlus has some of the best localization staff in the industry and there are way more offensive examples like Final Fantasy XIII or even worse, Star Ocean 4.

The writing in any japanese game is significantly worse than all western games.

#31 Posted by StrifeDelivery (1632 posts) -

@PurpleMan5000 said:

Well, I for one am glad they are isolated. They might make games more like western developers are making otherwise, and I prefer the games currently coming out of Japan.

This here.

Also, ignore mems.

#32 Posted by Aljosa23 (25121 posts) -

@mems_1224: lol

You have no idea what you are talking about.

@StrifeDelivery said:

@PurpleMan5000 said:

Well, I for one am glad they are isolated. They might make games more like western developers are making otherwise, and I prefer the games currently coming out of Japan.

This here.

Also, ignore mems.

Duly noted, thanks.

#33 Posted by osirisx3 (1817 posts) -

Japan as a whole as stalled out in pretty much everything. More people are dying then being born and its neighbours have really been getting ahead.

#34 Posted by mems_1224 (47254 posts) -

@Aljosa23 said:

@mems_1224: lol

You have no idea what you are talking about.

@StrifeDelivery said:

@PurpleMan5000 said:

Well, I for one am glad they are isolated. They might make games more like western developers are making otherwise, and I prefer the games currently coming out of Japan.

This here.

Also, ignore mems.

Duly noted, thanks.

Sure I do. Show me one example of a Japanese title with good writing.

#35 Edited by AcidTango (613 posts) -

Well they are not as good as they use to be.

#36 Posted by CrownKingArthur (4895 posts) -

you raise a good point. i take it.

#37 Posted by Aljosa23 (25121 posts) -

@mems_1224 said:

@Aljosa23 said:

@mems_1224: lol

You have no idea what you are talking about.

@StrifeDelivery said:

@PurpleMan5000 said:

Well, I for one am glad they are isolated. They might make games more like western developers are making otherwise, and I prefer the games currently coming out of Japan.

This here.

Also, ignore mems.

Duly noted, thanks.

Sure I do. Show me one example of a Japanese title with good writing.



Ttydbox.jpg

#38 Edited by Boddicker (2797 posts) -

You raise a good point and only die hard weeaboos would completely deny what you're saying.

Still, I'm kind of glad Japanese games are what they are. They're most likely a narrative RPG with little choice involved, HORRIBLE writing, and with an anime artstyle. More often than not it's about teens trying to save the world. I like that sometimes. At rare times I'm just in the mood for a grindfest, and when that happens I start looking at JRPG's.

For those of you ignorantly pointing to the Souls franchise and all the future games that has spawned (Bloodborn, etc.), let me remind you that those were tailored for Western audiences and do not represent the typical JRPG.

#39 Edited by Alcapello (953 posts) -

@mems_1224 said:

@Aljosa23 said:

@mems_1224: lol

You have no idea what you are talking about.

@StrifeDelivery said:

@PurpleMan5000 said:

Well, I for one am glad they are isolated. They might make games more like western developers are making otherwise, and I prefer the games currently coming out of Japan.

This here.

Also, ignore mems.

Duly noted, thanks.

Sure I do. Show me one example of a Japanese title with good writing.

mooshi mooshi

#40 Posted by lordlors (5610 posts) -

@PurpleMan5000 said:

Well, I for one am glad they are isolated. They might make games more like western developers are making otherwise, and I prefer the games currently coming out of Japan.

That my friend is why Japan will go down even further. It appears that you don't know the creative process in making something. Isolating yourself is making your own world narrower and more shallow which leads to mediocre imagination and creativity. Silent Hill was made because the Japanese devs saw the American movie, Jacob's Ladder. Had they not the access to anything outside, they wouldn't be capable of making the franchise. While there may be bad things that globalization brought, the greatest thing on the other hand was being able to experience arts and culture from outside your own which brought about excellent works of art. If Japanese continue to stay insular and ignore video games outside its borders, its decadence will be gradual.

#41 Posted by Ghost120x (3909 posts) -

I like that Japanese games are different. We don't need to have everything be the same. Not every thing needs to be mainstream because operating in a niche industry can have its rewards.

#42 Posted by lordlors (5610 posts) -
@Aljosa23 said:

They've obviously calmed down a bit but are still making games. It's not like handhelds and Nintendo just ceased to exist because top tier developers of yesteryear like SEGA and Konami are shit now. Though I must admit it is funny that you mentioned Blizzard as if they're still relevant today. Same with the RTS genre lol that's also dead.

How can the RTS genre be dead when SC2 is very well alive in e-sports? There's CoH2 and an upcoming RTS by the former Westwood guys (I forgot the name of their new studio). The TW series, although a mix of TBS/RTS, is also very much alive. I don't think there's any "dead" genre. Adventure games have also made a comeback in the Western world. And how is Blizzard irrelevant exactly?

#43 Posted by Aljosa23 (25121 posts) -

@lordlors said:
@Aljosa23 said:

They've obviously calmed down a bit but are still making games. It's not like handhelds and Nintendo just ceased to exist because top tier developers of yesteryear like SEGA and Konami are shit now. Though I must admit it is funny that you mentioned Blizzard as if they're still relevant today. Same with the RTS genre lol that's also dead.

How can the RTS genre be dead when SC2 is very well alive in e-sports? There's CoH2 and an upcoming RTS by the former Westwood guys (I forgot the name of their new studio). The TW series, although a mix of TBS/RTS, is also very much alive. I don't think there's any "dead" genre. Adventure games have also made a comeback in the Western world. And how is Blizzard irrelevant exactly?

Okay my apologies, I guess "dead" is too strong a word. The genre isn't what it used to be though and that's readily apparent when you have to cite a game like CoH2 (that barely sold 600k in a year) and a game by ex-Westwood developers that the majority of today's audience won't care about. In terms of Blizzard, they have effectively quelled any chance of StarCraft II competing with Valve and Riot for eSport supremacy. StarCraft II is a fun game but it doesn't have the long lasting appeal of the original and other games competing in today's market. They also take a huge amount of time to release one game that sells primarily on hype.

I like Blizzard and the RTS genre but to be honest, it's not what most people think about anymore when you mention Western games or even PC games.

#44 Posted by chimchargirl (86 posts) -

I like japanese games more than other countries games.

#45 Posted by CWEBB04z (4590 posts) -

I hate most Japanese games. They share the same art style and story lines. Im not into anime. .

#46 Posted by Blabadon (26588 posts) -

999 has better writing than any western game ever.

#47 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151410 posts) -

Wading at the start? What does that mean?

Anyway, let devs make the games they want. Let people buy what they want. Win Win.

#48 Edited by Ballroompirate (23030 posts) -

All I got from this thread is

#49 Posted by mems_1224 (47254 posts) -

@Blabadon said:

999 has better writing than any western game ever.

lol good one

#50 Posted by Bigboi500 (30000 posts) -

Man I am so bothered with other people enjoying other things. How dare they like what I don't!