Is Wii U the last strand of old school gaming?

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#1 Posted by mrintro (1354 posts) -

Maybe you guys don't really give a bleep but there was once a time when games were games and they felt complete and you actually owned them. And you didn't have to pay for online, and you didn't feel like the publisher deliberately released half a game so they can keep milking you with DLC or micro transactions. If they wanted your money, they earned it with good expansions. And there was once a time when the publisher released a game and they couldn't simply "patch" it later, it had to be good to go from the start. And you didn't have to wait 2-3 years to actually get the final game. And finally, old school was about enjoying the console by yourself, or if you wanted, with your friends. You didn't have to have online, and you didn't feel like you were missing out without it.

This brings up my point about the Wii U. It's a dying breed, and we will most likely not see anything of the sort with Nintendo's next home console. Sales are too poor, and we all know Nintendo will have to make a drastic change. The next generation simply wants a different experience. And admittedly, Nintendo could use some change, but I respect them for trying to preserve what made the old times great. How about you SW? Are you finally done with Nintendo's consoles as we know them?

#2 Edited by ConanTheStoner (4462 posts) -

I get what you're saying. For better AND for worse, Nintendo is clinging to some old school values.

Still, these good qualities are not exclusive to Nintendo. Plenty of other developers can and still do strive for the same values. Being on another platform doesn't mean that developers have to be patch happy, DLC greedy scum-bags that ignore local mp and a good sp experience.

Edit: Also, Nintendo could put out a great console without having to compromise any of their values. Better hardware and some good online features aren't going to take away from what they do.

#3 Posted by charizard1605 (54087 posts) -

Sort of. This is one of those times when Nintendo's insularity as a company and their stubborn refusal to adapt new standards actually comes in as a benefit. The Wii U remains the last true plug and play console, in a manner of speaking.

Well, that, and both the handhelds. But yes, as far as console gaming goes, Wii U is it.

#4 Posted by superbuuman (2484 posts) -

Not really, they aren't anything special like some people want to make them out to be. They are just slow to adapt..& when they do it - then in their mind its a standard..if other companies does it before them *in their mind its not standard* eventhough it works already. Basically they are ignorant to everything outside of their own little world. Adopting microtransaction?..well that's pretty crap..you can butter anyway you like its still shit. Don't even get me started on DLC. As for not having online multiplayer that's just an excuse, a weak one at that..when they do push into online multiplayer you can be sure they will ask for yearly subscription as MS/Sony does...then they will trumpet their horns like its the best thing. :P


#5 Posted by MrYaotubo (2489 posts) -

Of console gaming yeah,pretty much,the others are just apeing the PC,it´s features and mostly PC type games while console style games are slowly disapearing/losing relevance.

#6 Posted by Gargus (2147 posts) -

@mrintro said:

Maybe you guys don't really give a bleep but there was once a time when games were games and they felt complete and you actually owned them. And you didn't have to pay for online, and you didn't feel like the publisher deliberately released half a game so they can keep milking you with DLC or micro transactions. If they wanted your money, they earned it with good expansions. And there was once a time when the publisher released a game and they couldn't simply "patch" it later, it had to be good to go from the start. And you didn't have to wait 2-3 years to actually get the final game. And finally, old school was about enjoying the console by yourself, or if you wanted, with your friends. You didn't have to have online, and you didn't feel like you were missing out without it.

This brings up my point about the Wii U. It's a dying breed, and we will most likely not see anything of the sort with Nintendo's next home console. Sales are too poor, and we all know Nintendo will have to make a drastic change. The next generation simply wants a different experience. And admittedly, Nintendo could use some change, but I respect them for trying to preserve what made the old times great. How about you SW? Are you finally done with Nintendo's consoles as we know them?

Incase you didn't know this but, a console is just a piece of hardware. It has nothing to do with old school or new school games being made.

PS4 has a ton of indie games that are old school on it, PC has untold amounts of old school games on it as well and they both are vastly superior in terms of features and hardware than a wiiu.

According to you a PS4 or a Xbox one can only run high end new games and couldn't possible handle an old school game on it.

But yes the wiiu is full of old school games because that's all Nintendo can do is re-hash and shit out the same games they have been making for 20 years. But that doesn't make the wiiu or the games on it any good.

#7 Posted by no-scope-AK47 (2638 posts) -

I don't like micro/dlc/patch ect but we can't turn back the clock. The market has moved on and gamers like it or not have changed. It is what it is drive on embrace the suck. Plenty of good new games and old school games and emulators with iso's.

#8 Posted by Couth_ (9907 posts) -

@Gargus said:

@mrintro said:

Maybe you guys don't really give a bleep but there was once a time when games were games and they felt complete and you actually owned them. And you didn't have to pay for online, and you didn't feel like the publisher deliberately released half a game so they can keep milking you with DLC or micro transactions. If they wanted your money, they earned it with good expansions. And there was once a time when the publisher released a game and they couldn't simply "patch" it later, it had to be good to go from the start. And you didn't have to wait 2-3 years to actually get the final game. And finally, old school was about enjoying the console by yourself, or if you wanted, with your friends. You didn't have to have online, and you didn't feel like you were missing out without it.

This brings up my point about the Wii U. It's a dying breed, and we will most likely not see anything of the sort with Nintendo's next home console. Sales are too poor, and we all know Nintendo will have to make a drastic change. The next generation simply wants a different experience. And admittedly, Nintendo could use some change, but I respect them for trying to preserve what made the old times great. How about you SW? Are you finally done with Nintendo's consoles as we know them?

Incase you didn't know this but, a console is just a piece of hardware. It has nothing to do with old school or new school games being made.

PS4 has a ton of indie games that are old school on it, PC has untold amounts of old school games on it as well and they both are vastly superior in terms of features and hardware than a wiiu.

According to you a PS4 or a Xbox one can only run high end new games and couldn't possible handle an old school game on it.

But yes the wiiu is full of old school games because that's all Nintendo can do is re-hash and shit out the same games they have been making for 20 years. But that doesn't make the wiiu or the games on it any good.

Nailed it..

Came in to post that PC has heaps of old school type games but got the feeling OP isn't even talking about games - just talking about primitive, outdated hardware

#9 Posted by the_bi99man (11022 posts) -

You seem to have forgotten that PC gaming exists.

#10 Posted by jg4xchamp (46523 posts) -

Nintendo is old. Yeah that about sums it up.

The type of experiences that you are talking about still get created, but they get created on a different scale. Nintendo's issue is that they've done very little to actually expand their core fanbase beyond people who live the proven Nintendo franchises. Sure they had the Wii, but that market wasn't fans of Nintendo. But more into a new piece of tech, which they will continue to get from someone else. As for how Nintendo creates consoles? It's a dated philosophy that will not hold merit in the console market unless they make some actual changes to catch up to the market.

More or less Nintendo is the flip phone. At one point impressive, but now dated and made obsolete by competitors. Between PC gaming, Xbox One, or the Playstation 4 and their indie markets and laundry list of third party developers you get the best of the new stuff while also getting plenty of alternatives for the type of things Nintendo excells at minus Nintendo's brand name. There may be something romantic about how old school Nintendo's philosophy is. Keeping it simple and "just about the games man". But the facts speak for themselves. The market that wants that console is dramatically inferior to the one that wants a do it all piece of tech.

#11 Edited by treedoor (7478 posts) -

No.

If you want "old school gaming" you can find it anywhere.

The consoles are just boxes. Developers can make whatever type of games they want on them. Single player, local co-op, online multiplayer, etc.

Nintendo might adhere to the "local co-op/single player while ignoring online" standard as a developer more so than MS, or Sony, but the consoles themselves have very little bearing on it. All the current consoles/handhelds have online functionality, and they all require updates every so often. None of them are simply "plug and play" anymore. But even then, you can easily find hundreds of "old school" games on PC, and it's the most advanced system of them all.

Just depends what developers want to make.

#12 Posted by silversix_ (13393 posts) -

Of course its 'old school', the company is still in 1992.

#13 Edited by Pray_to_me (2707 posts) -

Wii U graphics are 2005 old school.

#14 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (6524 posts) -

Wii U, handhelds, and PC.

#15 Edited by MirkoS77 (6772 posts) -

You think all of these old school values exist with Nintendo because they proactively strive to promote them? I think they're so clueless that those values are simply byproducts of a company stuck 10 years in the past and not there due to any action on their part.

Anyway, from this last Direct it looks like the last "pure gaming company" is embracing F2P and microtransactions. Probably because they just became aware of them....

#16 Posted by Eikichi-Onizuka (8018 posts) -

I agree with your patch point, tired of games being released broken to fix later but that's it. Other than micro transaction bull(which is easily avoidable, it's always extra costumes and crap) DLC is basically an expansion in smaller pieces. You don't have to be online now either, plenty of single player games and split screen multiplayer(seemed to be going away for a while but a lot more games have been including since quite a few publishers realised people still want that)

#17 Edited by mrintro (1354 posts) -

@Couth_ said:

@Gargus said:

@mrintro said:

Maybe you guys don't really give a bleep but there was once a time when games were games and they felt complete and you actually owned them. And you didn't have to pay for online, and you didn't feel like the publisher deliberately released half a game so they can keep milking you with DLC or micro transactions. If they wanted your money, they earned it with good expansions. And there was once a time when the publisher released a game and they couldn't simply "patch" it later, it had to be good to go from the start. And you didn't have to wait 2-3 years to actually get the final game. And finally, old school was about enjoying the console by yourself, or if you wanted, with your friends. You didn't have to have online, and you didn't feel like you were missing out without it.

This brings up my point about the Wii U. It's a dying breed, and we will most likely not see anything of the sort with Nintendo's next home console. Sales are too poor, and we all know Nintendo will have to make a drastic change. The next generation simply wants a different experience. And admittedly, Nintendo could use some change, but I respect them for trying to preserve what made the old times great. How about you SW? Are you finally done with Nintendo's consoles as we know them?

Incase you didn't know this but, a console is just a piece of hardware. It has nothing to do with old school or new school games being made.

PS4 has a ton of indie games that are old school on it, PC has untold amounts of old school games on it as well and they both are vastly superior in terms of features and hardware than a wiiu.

According to you a PS4 or a Xbox one can only run high end new games and couldn't possible handle an old school game on it.

But yes the wiiu is full of old school games because that's all Nintendo can do is re-hash and shit out the same games they have been making for 20 years. But that doesn't make the wiiu or the games on it any good.

Nailed it..

Came in to post that PC has heaps of old school type games but got the feeling OP isn't even talking about games - just talking about primitive, outdated hardware

In case I didn't know? In case you didn't know there's a thing called reading comprehension. I'm talking about gaming experience between then and now and how Nintendo seems to be stuck in between.

Nintendo created the current hardware NOT because they are clueless, but because of their own gaming philosophy and because of the market they were trying to target. When are the nerds here going to realize that regular people don't give a bleep about having 1080p graphics, they care about games. And for all we know, Nintendo may have been right with a lot of things, just wrong with their marketing.

#18 Edited by nintendoboy16 (25688 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

You think all of these old school values exist with Nintendo because they proactively strive to promote them? I think they're so clueless that those values are simply byproducts of a company stuck 10 years in the past and not there due to any action on their part.

Anyway, from this last Direct it looks like the last "pure gaming company" is embracing F2P and microtransactions. Probably because they just became aware of them....

The question is, how will they embrace it if that game blows up in their faces (which I honestly hope happens and was hoping Iwata avoided that horrible, HORRIBLE trend altogether, then again, SW wants Nintendo to embrace these sell-out tactics)? If it's one thing Nintendo has a habit of, is blowing off most games that financially fail them (ex: Star Fox/F-Zero/Metroid)

#19 Posted by Desmonic (12310 posts) -

Maybe.Though I think (not 100% sure) that the PS4&X1 are getting the "sleep/wake" feature seen on handhelds, meaning you can "power off" without actually turning off the game (or the console) and resume in mere seconds so they should become the ultimate "plug&play" home consoles (assuming this really does happen of course).

The WiiU would have been an awesome console........in 2007/2006. Sure the tech would more than likely be way too expensive to implement at the time, but it's really the time when this console could have made a fantastic impact IMO.

Right now the lack of games 3rd party, appeal, marketing and a strong consumer grabbing gimmick hurts them more than being a more old-school console. Especially when in terms of software, excluding Nintendo owned franchises, you can get all kind of experiences (both traditional and new) on the rival machines.

#20 Edited by Pikminmaniac (8520 posts) -

I'm definitely far more fond of old school tendencies. I still think those tendencies are ahead of where the industry is going these days. They focus more on the aspects of gaming that are exclusive to the medium and less trying to follow in the footsteps of other mediums. Why do video games have to be more like movies to be considered art? What about the art of gameplay and game design?

#21 Edited by Kjranu (757 posts) -

Sort of. This is one of those times when Nintendo's insularity as a company and their stubborn refusal to adapt new standards actually comes in as a benefit. The Wii U remains the last true plug and play console, in a manner of speaking.

Well, that, and both the handhelds. But yes, as far as console gaming goes, Wii U is it.

No, not really. You needed a Day One patch for Wii U and that defeats your argument that Wii U is a plug and play console. ;)

#22 Edited by PrincessGomez92 (3191 posts) -

Well, I really like how they release full finished games, and not releasing overpriced DLC just after a game's released unlike several other developers. And pay to play online, fuck that anti-gaming shit.

#23 Posted by Wensing (14 posts) -

A true gamer would buy a Wii U and a PC. Then you will have the best experience.

#24 Edited by achilles614 (4831 posts) -

I agree OP the Wii U feels like a more classic gaming experience. The Xbone and PS4 just seem like poor PC knock-offs (though I'll likely get a PS4 at some point...probably Xbone too, can't help myself) and at the current moment I see little appeal. People these days seem to enjoy buying broken unpolished games which is something I rarely see with 1st party Nintendo games. To an extent the PC suffers from the problem of unpolished games, but that's more due to the nature of having to develop for a huge range of computer configurations.

People who are buying the Xbox One and PS4 are likely those sick of being stuck in the last generation which is understandable. Since I have a PC that kicks the crap out of the new consoles I felt complementing my PC with a Wii U is the most well-rounded gaming experience.

It's really funny to see Lems and cows foam at the mouth over 1080p and 30fps...and claim the Wii U is outdated LOL...news flash, none of them are cutting edge, so with that being said why go with the systems with unpolished/broken games (XB and PS)?

#25 Posted by LegatoSkyheart (24080 posts) -

You're a Gen Late.

Wii was the last strand of Old School Gaming, it even had Old School games for the system and they're still available.

WiiU is Nintendo's first step into modern day gaming. You couldn't even work the console correctly if you didn't have that Day 1 patch.

Not to mention there are games that are made BY NINTENDO that have DLC now and Patches. THAT is NOT Old School (unless you mean Old School PC, but that's different).

WiiU is not the last of Old School gaming. Old School gaming is gone. If you want that get a Wii and download Virtual Console games or heck go to Good Ol' Games, they have loads of classic PC titles there.

#26 Posted by DJ-Lafleur (34049 posts) -

The most "old-school" stuff could probably be found in the indie market, since they not only play like older games but in alot of cases even keep an 8-bit look.

That being said the Wii U isn't really a "classic" gaming machine at all. It has alot of stuff that last gen and current gen systems had, albeit more poorly implemented in some cases. The only thing old-school about it is the VC, but even then Sony has PSN which offers PS1 games.

#27 Posted by charizard1605 (54087 posts) -

@Kjranu said:

@charizard1605 said:

Sort of. This is one of those times when Nintendo's insularity as a company and their stubborn refusal to adapt new standards actually comes in as a benefit. The Wii U remains the last true plug and play console, in a manner of speaking.

Well, that, and both the handhelds. But yes, as far as console gaming goes, Wii U is it.

No, not really. You needed a Day One patch for Wii U and that defeats your argument that Wii U is a plug and play console. ;)

You needed a day one patch. You don't anymore.

And no bullshit installing of games or shit like that either. You put your disc in, you play the game. That's it. Simple.

#28 Edited by judaspete (380 posts) -

I was so excited when I got my PS3 years ago, knowing that it would be capable of 4-player split-screen right out of the box. No more praying the developer decided to support the multi-tap. And then this generation happened. I bought a third controller a few years ago and have yet to take it out of the box. Everything is made to play by yourself or online with nasally teenagers yelling bigoted, homophobic crap at each other. Say what you will about Nintendo, but theirs are the consoles of choice when you have actual, real live friends over.

#29 Edited by Tlgersuperman (87 posts) -

@mrintro said:

they couldn't simply "patch" it later,

Yeah you have no idea what you are saying.

#30 Edited by Tlgersuperman (87 posts) -

You know guys we can always go back to the old Home Computer technique and go back to shareware.

We get Battlefield 4 and TRUST EA enough that when we send $500, we "may" receive the full registered version of the game in about a month. Maybe with a free 1 level demo of Commander Keen.

We might also be able to get the CGA graphical patch along with one new tank.

#31 Posted by mrintro (1354 posts) -

@mrintro said:

they couldn't simply "patch" it later,

Yeah you have no idea what you are saying.

I have no idea what I'm saying? When did you start gaming my friend?

#32 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (6524 posts) -

You're a Gen Late.

Wii was the last strand of Old School Gaming, it even had Old School games for the system and they're still available.

WiiU is Nintendo's first step into modern day gaming. You couldn't even work the console correctly if you didn't have that Day 1 patch.

Not to mention there are games that are made BY NINTENDO that have DLC now and Patches. THAT is NOT Old School (unless you mean Old School PC, but that's different).

WiiU is not the last of Old School gaming. Old School gaming is gone. If you want that get a Wii and download Virtual Console games or heck go to Good Ol' Games, they have loads of classic PC titles there.

The Day 1 patch was ridiculous. I think they have gotten rid of that now, though, and patching on the Wii U occurs in the background, even when the console is powered off. It's the best of both worlds, really, because you get the benefit of the patch with none of the hassle or delay.

#33 Posted by Couth_ (9907 posts) -

@mrintro said:

@Couth_ said:

@Gargus said:

@mrintro said:

Maybe you guys don't really give a bleep but there was once a time when games were games and they felt complete and you actually owned them. And you didn't have to pay for online, and you didn't feel like the publisher deliberately released half a game so they can keep milking you with DLC or micro transactions. If they wanted your money, they earned it with good expansions. And there was once a time when the publisher released a game and they couldn't simply "patch" it later, it had to be good to go from the start. And you didn't have to wait 2-3 years to actually get the final game. And finally, old school was about enjoying the console by yourself, or if you wanted, with your friends. You didn't have to have online, and you didn't feel like you were missing out without it.

This brings up my point about the Wii U. It's a dying breed, and we will most likely not see anything of the sort with Nintendo's next home console. Sales are too poor, and we all know Nintendo will have to make a drastic change. The next generation simply wants a different experience. And admittedly, Nintendo could use some change, but I respect them for trying to preserve what made the old times great. How about you SW? Are you finally done with Nintendo's consoles as we know them?

Incase you didn't know this but, a console is just a piece of hardware. It has nothing to do with old school or new school games being made.

PS4 has a ton of indie games that are old school on it, PC has untold amounts of old school games on it as well and they both are vastly superior in terms of features and hardware than a wiiu.

According to you a PS4 or a Xbox one can only run high end new games and couldn't possible handle an old school game on it.

But yes the wiiu is full of old school games because that's all Nintendo can do is re-hash and shit out the same games they have been making for 20 years. But that doesn't make the wiiu or the games on it any good.

Nailed it..

Came in to post that PC has heaps of old school type games but got the feeling OP isn't even talking about games - just talking about primitive, outdated hardware

In case I didn't know? In case you didn't know there's a thing called reading comprehension. I'm talking about gaming experience between then and now and how Nintendo seems to be stuck in between.

Nintendo created the current hardware NOT because they are clueless, but because of their own gaming philosophy and because of the market they were trying to target. When are the nerds here going to realize that regular people don't give a bleep about having 1080p graphics, they care about games. And for all we know, Nintendo may have been right with a lot of things, just wrong with their marketing.

You are blinded by nostalgia. Sure there are many companies that take advantage and monetize every aspect of the industry that they can. But to your original point:" Is Wii U the Last Strand of Old School". No it's not. There is still heaps of it on PC and even some on PS4..

Who are you to say what people "care" about. You are talking about a population that goes out and does a yearly upgrade on the latest iphone for a slight upgrade in the screen or camera. You are talking about regular people - 8 million of which have bought PS4 and Xbones in 3 months, MOST of which who bought them for CoD Ghosts, BF4, Fifa, and AC4 - all games that have absolutely no difference from their previous gen counterpart except for a higher resolution. Yet regular people don't give a bleep about 1080p.... yeah right

#34 Edited by mrintro (1354 posts) -

@Couth_ said:

@mrintro said:

@Couth_ said:

@Gargus said:

@mrintro said:

Maybe you guys don't really give a bleep but there was once a time when games were games and they felt complete and you actually owned them. And you didn't have to pay for online, and you didn't feel like the publisher deliberately released half a game so they can keep milking you with DLC or micro transactions. If they wanted your money, they earned it with good expansions. And there was once a time when the publisher released a game and they couldn't simply "patch" it later, it had to be good to go from the start. And you didn't have to wait 2-3 years to actually get the final game. And finally, old school was about enjoying the console by yourself, or if you wanted, with your friends. You didn't have to have online, and you didn't feel like you were missing out without it.

This brings up my point about the Wii U. It's a dying breed, and we will most likely not see anything of the sort with Nintendo's next home console. Sales are too poor, and we all know Nintendo will have to make a drastic change. The next generation simply wants a different experience. And admittedly, Nintendo could use some change, but I respect them for trying to preserve what made the old times great. How about you SW? Are you finally done with Nintendo's consoles as we know them?

Incase you didn't know this but, a console is just a piece of hardware. It has nothing to do with old school or new school games being made.

PS4 has a ton of indie games that are old school on it, PC has untold amounts of old school games on it as well and they both are vastly superior in terms of features and hardware than a wiiu.

According to you a PS4 or a Xbox one can only run high end new games and couldn't possible handle an old school game on it.

But yes the wiiu is full of old school games because that's all Nintendo can do is re-hash and shit out the same games they have been making for 20 years. But that doesn't make the wiiu or the games on it any good.

Nailed it..

Came in to post that PC has heaps of old school type games but got the feeling OP isn't even talking about games - just talking about primitive, outdated hardware

In case I didn't know? In case you didn't know there's a thing called reading comprehension. I'm talking about gaming experience between then and now and how Nintendo seems to be stuck in between.

Nintendo created the current hardware NOT because they are clueless, but because of their own gaming philosophy and because of the market they were trying to target. When are the nerds here going to realize that regular people don't give a bleep about having 1080p graphics, they care about games. And for all we know, Nintendo may have been right with a lot of things, just wrong with their marketing.

You are blinded by nostalgia. Sure there are many companies that take advantage and monetize every aspect of the industry that they can. But to your original point:" Is Wii U the Last Strand of Old School". No it's not. There is still heaps of it on PC and even some on PS4..

Who are you to say what people "care" about. You are talking about a population that goes out and does a yearly upgrade on the latest iphone for a slight upgrade in the screen or camera. You are talking about regular people - 8 million of which have bought PS4 and Xbones in 3 months, MOST of which who bought them for CoD Ghosts, BF4, Fifa, and AC4 - all games that have absolutely no difference from their previous gen counterpart except for a higher resolution. Yet regular people don't give a bleep about 1080p.... yeah right

What the hell are you talking about lol. I'm talking about the classic console experience, that is all. The Wii U is the closest thing to it. That's all I'm saying!

#35 Edited by MirkoS77 (6772 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

You think all of these old school values exist with Nintendo because they proactively strive to promote them? I think they're so clueless that those values are simply byproducts of a company stuck 10 years in the past and not there due to any action on their part.

Anyway, from this last Direct it looks like the last "pure gaming company" is embracing F2P and microtransactions. Probably because they just became aware of them....

The question is, how will they embrace it if that game blows up in their faces (which I honestly hope happens and was hoping Iwata avoided that horrible, HORRIBLE trend altogether, then again, SW wants Nintendo to embrace these sell-out tactics)? If it's one thing Nintendo has a habit of, is blowing off most games that financially fail them (ex: Star Fox/F-Zero/Metroid)

Well hopefully the Nintendo userbase will reject it as many of its fans love and play their games due to the fact that they've so far stayed away from that trend. Seems that Nintendo's catering to the wrong audience. Though I don't know where you've seen people on this board say they wish that any company should embrace F2P and MTs. Terrible practices.

#36 Edited by Jag85 (4195 posts) -

Nintendo is old. Yeah that about sums it up.

The type of experiences that you are talking about still get created, but they get created on a different scale. Nintendo's issue is that they've done very little to actually expand their core fanbase beyond people who live the proven Nintendo franchises. Sure they had the Wii, but that market wasn't fans of Nintendo. But more into a new piece of tech, which they will continue to get from someone else. As for how Nintendo creates consoles? It's a dated philosophy that will not hold merit in the console market unless they make some actual changes to catch up to the market.

More or less Nintendo is the flip phone. At one point impressive, but now dated and made obsolete by competitors. Between PC gaming, Xbox One, or the Playstation 4 and their indie markets and laundry list of third party developers you get the best of the new stuff while also getting plenty of alternatives for the type of things Nintendo excells at minus Nintendo's brand name. There may be something romantic about how old school Nintendo's philosophy is. Keeping it simple and "just about the games man". But the facts speak for themselves. The market that wants that console is dramatically inferior to the one that wants a do it all piece of tech.

Interesting fact about the flip phone: It's still the most popular mobile phone design in Japan to this day. The same probably goes for Nintendo's philosophy: It works well enough in their Japanese home base, but not so well overseas.

#37 Edited by MirkoS77 (6772 posts) -

@Pikminmaniac said:

I'm definitely far more fond of old school tendencies. I still think those tendencies are ahead of where the industry is going these days. They focus more on the aspects of gaming that are exclusive to the medium and less trying to follow in the footsteps of other mediums. Why do video games have to be more like movies to be considered art? What about the art of gameplay and game design?

Because great gameplay and game design don't make you feel or ponder, and I think a lot of art is defined through that, and why I think a lot of these experiences you don't care for are getting such accolades. Mario is great "fun", but that's as far as it goes. It's shallow, eye-hand coordination, twitch enjoyment in the moment that is forgotten the moment the power is turned off. Personally, I find games need to evolve past this point, as we've been doing this same damn thing over and over and over since the early eighties.

I don't know if you've played TLoU yet, but the DLC was amazing and has a moment that has had the Internet and forums buzzing and discussions at Neogaf and other places going on for pages and pages speculating on various things. It's exciting. Was the gameplay deep and level design creative like Mario or DKCR? No, but it wasn't meant to be. It was meant to be there to compliment and strengthen the narrative and characterization, which are both incredibly well-done. People who play games like this, all the while keeping Mario in the back of their mind, are completely missing the point.

I'm glad that gameplay's evolving past Nintendo's mantra of "It's a toy" philosophy. It's capable of more, gaming's interactive component lends it strength further than what a movie can give, even if it seems to maintain the same structure. If Nintendo and gameplay only focused games (no matter how well done) were all that are available, I'd quickly grow tired and uninterested in this medium. As great as SMG, Pikmin, and DKCR are, it's capable of SO much more, and that shouldn't be discouraged because of traditionalism or nostalgia. TLoU/LB have been some of the most gratifying gaming I've ever had in 30+ years of playing and I hope to see more of it.

#38 Posted by PsychoLemons (1878 posts) -

Define "old school". Because everyone here are getting different answers.

#39 Posted by IMAHAPYHIPPO (2496 posts) -

@princessgomez92: They have released DLC for Pikmin 3, but most of it was 1.99$ for remixed maps, and 4.99$ for ten completely new ones... A lot better than 15$ for five maps.

#40 Posted by lamprey263 (22254 posts) -

gaming will continue to evolve and stuff will quickly get dated to be something of the past so there is no last bit of old school gaming

#41 Edited by AzatiS (6887 posts) -

@mrintro said:

Maybe you guys don't really give a bleep but there was once a time when games were games and they felt complete and you actually owned them. And you didn't have to pay for online, and you didn't feel like the publisher deliberately released half a game so they can keep milking you with DLC or micro transactions. If they wanted your money, they earned it with good expansions. And there was once a time when the publisher released a game and they couldn't simply "patch" it later, it had to be good to go from the start. And you didn't have to wait 2-3 years to actually get the final game. And finally, old school was about enjoying the console by yourself, or if you wanted, with your friends. You didn't have to have online, and you didn't feel like you were missing out without it.

This brings up my point about the Wii U. It's a dying breed, and we will most likely not see anything of the sort with Nintendo's next home console. Sales are too poor, and we all know Nintendo will have to make a drastic change. The next generation simply wants a different experience. And admittedly, Nintendo could use some change, but I respect them for trying to preserve what made the old times great. How about you SW? Are you finally done with Nintendo's consoles as we know them?

1) I prefer to pay for online ( even if i hate it ) than buy a console like many did with Wii when despite its sales were epic and Nintendo profits even more , N let it die just like that let alone they left it with no games / support the last 2 years of its life .... In short they left 100M owners ... wondering wth is happening !

2) I prefer to pay a small amount for DLC ( even if i hate that too and i usually dont even bother with DLCs ) but having the ability to buy half price or even lower older exclusive hits ( 1 year old ) ... When Nintendo had Mario Galaxy on full price for almost 3 years..

3) Nintendo is as milky as all other companies .... and i bet you know why.

4) Nintendo is far from oldschool gaming. Oldschool gaming wasnt all about gimmick controls , missing all multiplatforms , crap hardwares , massive shovelware.. Why you think SNES was a massive success !! It had everything , both quality and quantity

You need to reconsider what you think about Nintendo. The only thing they do good is Mario main series / Zelda main series and Handheld gaming. Nothing else.

#42 Posted by nintendoboy16 (25688 posts) -

@AzatiS said:

4) Nintendo is far from oldschool gaming. Oldschool gaming wasnt all about gimmick controls , missing all multiplatforms , crap hardwares , massive shovelware.. Why you think SNES was a massive success !! It had everything , both quality and quantity

Gimmick controls - D-Pad, analog sticks, and local four players out of the box weren't gimmicks for their times?

Missing multiplat - So GameCube and N64 aren't old school then?

Crap hardware - So PS1 isn't old school, considering it's technically weaker than the N64?

Massive shovelware - Every console has it, first place selling consoles moreso than others. NES, SNES, PS1, and PS2 all had the WORST of the shovelare for their time. Are they not old school now?

#43 Posted by mrintro (1354 posts) -

Define "old school". Because everyone here are getting different answers.

although the Wii U is HD and has motion gimmicks, I still see it a very classic console experience.

#44 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (6524 posts) -

@AzatiS said:

4) Nintendo is far from oldschool gaming. Oldschool gaming wasnt all about gimmick controls , missing all multiplatforms , crap hardwares , massive shovelware.. Why you think SNES was a massive success !! It had everything , both quality and quantity

Old school console gaming was all about crap hardware, gimmick controls, and massive shovelware. The only reason the SNES didn't miss tons of multiplatforms is because there was only one other console, so by default, it only missed a ton of 3rd party exclusives that went to the Genesis.

#45 Edited by HalcyonScarlet (3658 posts) -

Maybe, but these companies are only moving with the gamers and trying to find neutral ground between finding viable business models and dealing with piracy and the second hand market.

So the gaming delivery method is changing into more of a service.

I'm not too fond of the idea and I think last gen had a better balance, while this gen is pushing more towards the service side. But the problem is Nintendo's too far on the other side and they aren't pushing and exploring services.

#46 Edited by AzatiS (6887 posts) -

@nintendoboy16 said:

@AzatiS said:

4) Nintendo is far from oldschool gaming. Oldschool gaming wasnt all about gimmick controls , missing all multiplatforms , crap hardwares , massive shovelware.. Why you think SNES was a massive success !! It had everything , both quality and quantity

Gimmick controls - D-Pad, analog sticks, and local four players out of the box weren't gimmicks for their times?

Missing multiplat - So GameCube and N64 aren't old school then?

Crap hardware - So PS1 isn't old school, considering it's technically weaker than the N64?

Massive shovelware - Every console has it, first place selling consoles moreso than others. NES, SNES, PS1, and PS2 all had the WORST of the shovelare for their time. Are they not old school now?

1) No they werent. In fact they did gaming better . Wii mote didnt. In fact you were playing way worse games in a different way except very few exceptions. Wii promoted wii-mote way more than actually games. The same thing they tried to do with Wii U. Games >> Controllers.

2) Gamecube and N64 didnt miss every single major exclusive nor had the worse multiplatform version of a game , Wii and Wii U did/do. GC had awesome exclusives BEYOND the typical mario and Zelda titles. So was N64.

3) Ps1 was way better than Saturn thats why Saturn died and was easily winning vs N64 because of CD-rom and how easy could handle textures because of CD-rom again. Let alone developers had way easier time to develop games for PS1 because of architecture , let alone it costed almost nothing to publish their games on CD-rom unlike Cartridges. What are you even comparing here?

4) No , Wii was something else , one level above everything i ever saw. Everysingle system has shovelware , thats obvious. Wii was on another lever considering it was first on sales BY FAR !!! First time in video gaming history , the first on system wars race had the crappiest library , the least third party support and the only console that died so fast. Thats insane.

#47 Posted by nintendoboy16 (25688 posts) -

@AzatiS said:

@nintendoboy16 said:

@AzatiS said:

4) Nintendo is far from oldschool gaming. Oldschool gaming wasnt all about gimmick controls , missing all multiplatforms , crap hardwares , massive shovelware.. Why you think SNES was a massive success !! It had everything , both quality and quantity

Gimmick controls - D-Pad, analog sticks, and local four players out of the box weren't gimmicks for their times?

Missing multiplat - So GameCube and N64 aren't old school then?

Crap hardware - So PS1 isn't old school, considering it's technically weaker than the N64?

Massive shovelware - Every console has it, first place selling consoles moreso than others. NES, SNES, PS1, and PS2 all had the WORST of the shovelare for their time. Are they not old school now?

1) No they werent. In fact they did gaming better . Wii mote didnt. In fact you were playing way worse games in a different way except very few exceptions. Wii promoted wii-mote way more than actually games. The same thing they tried to do with Wii U. Games >> Controllers.

2) Gamecube and N64 didnt miss every single major exclusive nor had the worse multiplatform version of a game , Wii and Wii U did/do. GC had awesome exclusives BEYOND the typical mario and Zelda titles. So was N64.

3) Ps1 was way better than Saturn thats why Saturn died and was easily winning vs N64 because of CD-rom and how easy could handle textures because of CD-rom again. Let alone developers had way easier time to develop games for PS1 because of architecture , let alone it costed almost nothing to publish their games on CD-rom unlike Cartridges. What are you even comparing here?

4) No , Wii was something else , one level above everything i ever saw. Everysingle system has shovelware , thats obvious. Wii was on another lever considering it was first on sales BY FAR !!! First time in video gaming history , the first on system wars race had the crappiest library , the least third party support and the only console that died so fast. Thats insane.

1. Even the most beneficial things in gaming start out as gimmicks. Hardly anyone thought D-Pads and analog sticks would catch on last I checked.

2. So, are you brushing off the fact that the N64 missed Final Fantasy VII, Metal Gear Solid, Tekken and the like? Unlike you for someone who dislikes Nintendo outside the GameCube.

3. Hey, you were the one who said "lower tech doesn't equal retro gaming". Didn't stop the fact that the PS1 was graphically inferior to the N64.

4. Don't pull the exception card on how "the Wii is another level". I don't give a damn that the previous consoles I mentioned had a more "quality/quantity" library, they were still infested with shovelware, much like the Wii. Have you not seen the AVGN and how many NES games he rips on?

#48 Posted by DocSanchez (1353 posts) -

@nintendoboy16: No, D pads were not gimmicks. Analogue sticks were just a continuation of the traditional joystick for thumbs and again, they were not gimmicks. Gimmicks lack the substance. How is more player options a gimmick? How?

Contrast this to the wii mote. No one wanted it. It didn't enhance anything. It wasn't a progression. it was different for being different's sake. And it sucked. And you'll notice they didn't revolutionise games in any way shape or form. Gimmick.

#49 Edited by Shinobishyguy (22299 posts) -

@DocSanchez: whether you thought it was a gimmick or not is irrelevant, it did influence the competition. You think MS would've been pushing the kinect if it weren't for the whole motion gaming craze?

Sure it's not a revolution for core gaming but outside of that it was very influential.

#50 Edited by AzatiS (6887 posts) -

@nintendoboy16 said:

@AzatiS said:

@nintendoboy16 said:

@AzatiS said:

4) Nintendo is far from oldschool gaming. Oldschool gaming wasnt all about gimmick controls , missing all multiplatforms , crap hardwares , massive shovelware.. Why you think SNES was a massive success !! It had everything , both quality and quantity

Gimmick controls - D-Pad, analog sticks, and local four players out of the box weren't gimmicks for their times?

Missing multiplat - So GameCube and N64 aren't old school then?

Crap hardware - So PS1 isn't old school, considering it's technically weaker than the N64?

Massive shovelware - Every console has it, first place selling consoles moreso than others. NES, SNES, PS1, and PS2 all had the WORST of the shovelare for their time. Are they not old school now?

1) No they werent. In fact they did gaming better . Wii mote didnt. In fact you were playing way worse games in a different way except very few exceptions. Wii promoted wii-mote way more than actually games. The same thing they tried to do with Wii U. Games >> Controllers.

2) Gamecube and N64 didnt miss every single major exclusive nor had the worse multiplatform version of a game , Wii and Wii U did/do. GC had awesome exclusives BEYOND the typical mario and Zelda titles. So was N64.

3) Ps1 was way better than Saturn thats why Saturn died and was easily winning vs N64 because of CD-rom and how easy could handle textures because of CD-rom again. Let alone developers had way easier time to develop games for PS1 because of architecture , let alone it costed almost nothing to publish their games on CD-rom unlike Cartridges. What are you even comparing here?

4) No , Wii was something else , one level above everything i ever saw. Everysingle system has shovelware , thats obvious. Wii was on another lever considering it was first on sales BY FAR !!! First time in video gaming history , the first on system wars race had the crappiest library , the least third party support and the only console that died so fast. Thats insane.

1. Even the most beneficial things in gaming start out as gimmicks. Hardly anyone thought D-Pads and analog sticks would catch on last I checked.

2. So, are you brushing off the fact that the N64 missed Final Fantasy VII, Metal Gear Solid, Tekken and the like? Unlike you for someone who dislikes Nintendo outside the GameCube.

3. Hey, you were the one who said "lower tech doesn't equal retro gaming". Didn't stop the fact that the PS1 was graphically inferior to the N64.

4. Don't pull the exception card on how "the Wii is another level". I don't give a damn that the previous consoles I mentioned had a more "quality/quantity" library, they were still infested with shovelware, much like the Wii. Have you not seen the AVGN and how many NES games he rips on?

1) Define the word gimmicks. Analog stick didnt affect gaming itself , wii mote did. How many developers were willing to port their games on Wii for example ( hardware aside ) with wii-mote controls? Very few. I dont get why you think Analog stick as gimmick. Not even close to what gimmick supposed to be.

2) No , im brushing that many developers were avoiding N64 because of cartridges , developing costs because of N64 really bad architecture and really expensive cartridges. I dont get where you going at. Gamecube also had amazing exclusives , third party ones!! So what are you talking about?

3) PS1 wasnt inferior to N64 in the way Wii was to PS3/X360. So please ... Lower tech doesnt mean retro at all. Wii U is retro and oldschool? Not even close. You should understand what retro/gimmick/oldschool means when we talking about video gaming , it seems you are confused.

4) Wii was on entire other level than any other console. Read again why i think so , it seems you constantly jumping my explanations. Read again. Wii was on 100M mark with tremendous shovelware unseen in any generation considering it was the first on its generation on sales ..by far. If you cant understand this .. well!! Whatever!