Is Thief Trilogy, still the best Stealth Games ever?

When you can play the entirety of the games in stealth and stealth is where they truly shine, then I see no issue.

Even if you're trying to set up an arbitrary criteria, it still meets them all. You can play %100 stealth while killing. You can play %100 stealth, no kills, but with some interaction. Or you can just completely ghost the games. Not only do the games play best as stealth games, but you also get rewarded for not killing or setting off alerts.

I beat all 4 of the main MGS titles in complete stealth, so lol at you broseph.

If that is how you choose to play them, sure.

I'm pretty sure everyone has at some point. It simply doesn't apply here.

This was exactly my point, they are great stealth games, they just don't force stealth.

I'd define a "true" stealth game as something that forces the player to use stealth in order to overcome the obstacles placed in front of them. MGS doesn't do this, it gives a "shooter" way out in most situations.

It's more of a "stealth lite" game, or, honestly "tactical espionage action" sure fits the bill.

I've done full ghost runs and full brogamer shoot-em-up runs of MGS2 and MGS3. Giving the option isn't "true" stealth. In fact, the Thief games punish you for not being stealthy.

So when I set MGS2, or MGS3 to European Extreme does it magically turn into a "true" stealth game then?

Really, I don't get it. It's as if MGS can't be a stealth game just because it gives you other options of play. Like Kojima should have just neutered his games or something. Set the game to run in Euro Extreme the whole time and strip away all the extra options, then MGS would be considered a stealth game. Sounds kind of funny to me.

The pure stealth game is there. It's how you're encouraged to play and you're rewarded for doing so. I don't think the option for other play styles should take away from that.

i like this thread because it shows u console gamers are basically gaming noobs.

Agreed

We are at that point where we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I loveMGS (except MGS4) but recognize that games like Thief are a step ahead in terms of stealth gameplay. The MGS games don't even use lighting as a means of hiding oneself. Even the original Syphon Filter on the PlayStation had lighting play into it's stealth sections.

Its comfortably still the best. The Hitman series is generally overrated due to the poor controls and wonky mechanics. Absolution was a disaster.

Thief is unique because its still one of the only pure stealth series. Most others, even something great like Last of Us, are stealth-action games.

Its distinguished not only for the stealth but the quality of the level design, the sound, story and its main character.

I think the reason why its mechanics are so precise and why it feels so comfortable as a stealth game is because it was designed with that genre in first, rather than it being a secondary component of an action game.

@foxhound_fox

Well..... How are they going to "Force" players to use stealth ?

Will the mission just end abruptly if you are spotted ?

Will you be significantly overwhelmed if you are spotted, possibly by hive mind AI who never lose track of you once they spot you ?

stealth should be encouraged, not Forced..... Failure to use to stealth should be punished, not outright unviable.

I don't thinka stealth game is any less of stealth game if it doesn't smite you out of existence for not staying in the shadows...... That just makes it Stealth +.......

Exactly how the Thief games do it... by making Garrett a waif in melee combat and very easy to kill. Making stealth the only real viable option to overcome the obstacles in the game.

lol no, thief sucks

@foxhound_fox

Sounds repetitive. :(

Yeah, totally not dependent on the player's creativity, ingenuity and cunning. *rolls eyes*

Gotta agree with this. Thief 1 was nice to me. Didn't make me want to get the second one though.

It is pretty obvious that he never touched Thief games before, so it is useless to argue.

I consider MGS3, Chaos Theory, and Blacklist to be the best.

How you can play it in 100% stealth when you have boss fights that require you to fight like a Rambo? In stealth game you are supposed to survive 10 bullets or a missile fired towards you. Try to Rambo your way in Thief and se if you can move a feet away. Yeah, that is a true stealth game. In MGS I can easily gun down everybody and complete the mission. There's no fucking way in MGS you can can 100 stealth it. There are sections where you have to fight your way out. It's an action game with stealth elements here and there with clunky controls. 90% of the time you are fighting with controls rather than enjoying the game and if that's shining to you, I don't know. To me it's crap gameplay.

It sounds like you haven't played an MGS title past the original on playstation. Like seriously.

Are you secretly Darksyde Phil? That might explain things better.

Okay!!! So you don't have to fight that Col. something in MGS 3 who shoots electric volts? I'm pretty sure I have to wear a crocodile mask to know the direction in which I'm shooting the gun to hit him in the early fight. Then This whole Tank like fighting on a bike.

What about that idoitic guy that shoots bees or an astronaut who's on fire. You can stealthly take them down? How about MGS2 and that Vamp guy. What about the whole fighting with the chopper thing? Some really cool stealth game. Oh and did I forget the last boss fight. And all that with shitty controls.

In MGS4, the fights with BB corps, perhaps. Yup, definitely a stealth and not an action game.

not enough michael bay moments for lulu, you know you gotta keep the explosions coming or else you might lose the people with the attention span and intellect of an amoeba.

Don't forget Co-op and David Cage's style storytelling.

Finally someone who understands. MGS are meant to be played as a stealth game, they just don't make gimp other play styles just so you HAVE to be stealthy.

Hey, I can agree to disagree, I know you're not just hating and know you love your MGS.

I'm not even saying the MGS games are better stealth games than Thief though. I'm not here to argue that the MGS titles are better than any stealth games, I'm simply arguing that they are stealth games.

As far as light and shadow playing a role, I don't think that has too much to do with whether a game is stealth or not.

That said, both MGS2 and MGS3 do have minor moments where shadow does in-fact play a factor. There are dark nooks and crannies in both the tanker and Big Shell where enemies will walk right past you in sneaking mode, or even run past you in evasion mode. The element is there, it's just not used very liberally. Same thing in MGS3 when your camo index is heightened in certain shadowy spots.

As far as full on light and shadow play like what you're talking about, Ground Zeroes would be the first MGS title to do so.

Aaaannndd, while it's not exactly the same, MGS isn't too far off.

European Extreme in MGS2 and MGS3. The moment you're spotted it's game over.

The Boss Extreme in MGS4. Limited ammo, limited rations, low health bar, more accurate enemies that can see much further... you're pretty much gonna die if spotted.

Yeah, it's the age old argument about MGS. It's as if some gamers are mad about having options. MGS games are very much OBVIOUSLY meant to be played stealth. That's what they excel at. But luckily we have the freedom to tackle things any number of ways which is why these are some of the most replayable games around. I love goofing around with the many facets of the game just as much as I love doing a pure stealth run.

If someone doesn't want to mess with the other shit, then set the game to European Extreme and good luck. Problem solved.

@foxhound_fox:

Well creativity usually takes a bit of trial and error...

All though I must say they have been many instances where I walk into a room come up with a plan right on the spot and executed it mostly without fail. Depending on how one sees it, its either the mark of a good game or the mark of an obviously predictable game.

@ConanTheStoner:

I see this alot from time to time, its not enough for a game to have an optional feature.... it needs to be mandatory. There's a bunch of gamers who simply lack the capacity to use an optional feature, these are the same people who same Arkgam City shallow and tedious because you aren't firced to do anything more than Hit, Counter, Hit, Counter. ... and the rare occasional dodge. Despite the fact that Batman can do a whole lot more than that.

If I had to guess, this is not the type of gamer who plays a game to experience it.... this is the type of gamer who plays games just to finnish them. As if it were some tedious chore.... They will do no more than the bare minimum..... unless they are forced to do so.

Dishonored is the best stealth game.

Hitman games

Splinter Cell

Thief was good for it's time but my god, try and play the first game now and for me cannot see it as that good of a stealth game now, but that might be because of the graphics, I remember loving it when it came out.

No Goldeneye is the best stealth game ever. Dual weapons with sniper riflle and shotgun. Most influential fps game of all time.

@Heirren

I'm confused..... Is it the best stealth game or best FPS ? And how does dual weilding a shotgun fit into all this ?

Best of both. Expanding thread. Goldeneye glitch created what is now known as "iron sights".

Nah, fox is right. A pure stealth game is just that, nothing but stealth as a priority. A game that forces you to stealth with either a) optional gameplay methods (melee/gunplay,etc.) that are designed to be severely handicapped in comparison to stealth or b) nothing but stealth as an option.

A hybrid with equally relevant options, say, gunplay and stealth, is an action-stealth game. Thief (1&2) is pure stealth because other options are absolutely not viable. And is the reason why i don't like the series at all.. I'm not a fan of pure stealth, and the other optional methods to play are dreadful.

The second Thief is the best, and really outshines the first game in every conceivable way. If there was only one Thief game that you were gonna play, it should have been Thief 2. There's some great texture mods btw.

Yes easily. Heck..more than ever, because this year we go mods that fixed some of the most serious Deadly Shadows mistakes.

The only thing that can rival Thief in stealth is Dark Mod, which is a spiritual fan-made successor to Thief.

I haven't played Dark Mod yet. I may try it.

You're not wise. In fact, you're an idiot, Sniper.

Stealth is probably my favourite genre but I couldn't get into the Thief series because of the supernatural element. The first three Splinter Cell games would be my choice. Beating them on the hardest difficulty was so satisfying and the spies vs mercs multiplayer was incredible.

@ConanTheStoner:

That is why mgs4 is so great. The gameplay is so open for player decision. The games that force stealth unto a player aren't "more stealth", they are actually less so. Restricting the player gives no sense of risk/reward.

ITT: a bunch of arbitrary bullshit to downplay MGS's brilliant stealth gameplay. Not that I think it bests Thief 2 it doesn't, and frankly lots of things don't. But I find the logic behind Hitman counting, when you fucking shoot up mardi gras in a chicken suit, but not MGS, which you will get buttfucked on hard or higher if you try to go guns blazing is contradicting as ****.

OF the games being discussed only Chaos Theory and Thief really felt like games where action wasn't an option. Either by design (Thief) or because Sam Fisher sucked that much with a gun (shit combat). That however should not invalidate a game that says **** it we are going to balance both, and then does it brilliantly, and for those seeking the deeper elements of the game can play it for just the stealth, and then be challenged by it.

But that's okay, this forum is usually allergic to actual gameplay depth.

@jg4xchamp:

Allergic is an understatement... this forum avoids gameplay depth like its the plague.

overall as a finished product I would still go with metal gear solid.

by ripping off manhunt?

Anyway thief 2 didnt feel stealthy to me, i mea you can swordfight anyone in that game unlike the first game. For the best ill go with chaos theory.

@TheGuardian03:

Reboot is a slap in the face of Thief fans. You should play original trilogy. Excellent games.

I have to agree as well (on all 3)

Thief or Splinter Cell for me.

Give it a try. :)

I wouldn't know. Most of my stealth play came from Splinter Cell, Metal Gear, and Assassin's Creed.