Is Nintendo biased against the West?

  • 96 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Edited by Kjranu (1029 posts) -

Article from vgchartz.

It is kind of odd that Nintendo has pretty much disengaged from the West, whereas in the 90s they were much more of an East + West company. Why the change and is it warranted? Especially when the West now is basically the entire console market? It seems to basically all trace back to Iwata and even Miyamoto moving up the ranks on Nintendo's Board of Directors. A few points I'd raise:

- Iwata after being groomed since about 1999/2000 takes over as Nintendo president officially in May 2002. His first major move as president? Selling Rare to Microsoft in September 2002. Despite spin at the time that Nintendo would use the money from the sale to invest in a similar Western studio (Zoonami was thrown around a lot), this never materializes.

- In basically two years, Iwata dismantles pretty much all of Nintendo's Western relationships. Silicon Knights is out. Factor 5 is out. NST is downsized to a Mario Vs. DK studio. Left Field is out. The deal for Star Wars exclusive games is not renewed. Nintendo Sports is shuttered.

- Now you may say 'b ... bu ... but Retro!", but Retro opened in 1999 was supposed to supply Nintendo with *multiple* games in genres like action/sports/shooters at once. That was Howard Lincoln's brainchild. Under Iwata, Retro is stripped down to one team and kept under an extremely tight leash where they only work on Nintendo IP. The same is basically true of Next Level Games (one game at a time, on a Japanese Nintendo IP only). Nintendo does work with a very small handful of Western companies, but basically only lets them work on Japanese IP that they're too busy to do themselves. No chance of an original IP like GoldenEye, Eternal Darkness, Killer Instinct, or NBA Courtside being greenlit here.

- Under Iwata, Nintendo finances many different 2nd party Japanese titles ... The Last Story, Bayonetta 2, Zengeki No Rengleiv, Endless Ocean 1/2, Pandora's Tower, Fatal Frame IV/V, Devil's Third, The Wonderful 101, etc. etc. etc. Yet they never do this with any Western developer, even though Western devs like the Darksiders guy did make advances towards Nintendo. Nope, Nintendo only bails out a project, like Devil's Third or Bayo 2 if it's a Japanese developer. Tough luck if you're American/European.

- Monster Hunter was a huge hit ... in Japan. Notice how Nintendo moved quickly to secure that as exclusive? But what about Western trends? They apparently won't even talk to the Minecraft people ... how much do you want to bet if Minecraft was a Japanese IP that there would be considerably more outreach from Iwata's Nintendo on it? You'd probably be able to play it on your Wii U/3DS right now if that was the case.

- Another example of Nintendo's complete disengagement from the West ... Activision actually apparently offered Nintendo exclusivity on the Skylanders franchise while it was in the conceptual phase, Nintendo basically told them "thanks, but no thanks".

- All their crossover games too are basically Japanese collaborations only. Hyrule Warriors, SMT x Fire Emblem, Metroid: Other M, Pokemon Conquest, Mario & Sonic are fair game ... but doing that with a Western IP ... nope.

- NOA is basically stripped of any real power they had. Reggie mentioned they liked Media Molecule (LittleBigPlanet) too and had them on their radar but Sony beat them to the punch. I really have to wonder if a lot of that has to do with NOA having no real power to make deals anymore. Iwata basically granting himself presidency over NOA when he himself admits he doesn't understand the Western market as well as Japan is just incredibly non-sensical.

I'm not saying supporting Japanese development is bad, but really the above points to a bit of a disturbing trend of bias. I understand Iwata comes from the Japanese game developer community and maybe views it like a fraternity where deals are inked over glass of sake, but really there should be no excuse for Nintendo to be a more closed off Japanese company in 2014 than they were in say 1997.

#2 Posted by hiphops_savior (7941 posts) -

Good article, and it is actually a very constructive criticism of Iwata's method of operation.

#3 Posted by farrell2k (6345 posts) -

Yep, Nintendo of American should be running everything.

#4 Posted by SecretPolice (22242 posts) -

Yes

#5 Posted by Blabadon (26593 posts) -

Bam

#6 Edited by nintendoboy16 (26889 posts) -

@Kjranu said:

Article from vgchartz.

It is kind of odd that Nintendo has pretty much disengaged from the West, whereas in the 90s they were much more of an East + West company. Why the change and is it warranted? Especially when the West now is basically the entire console market? It seems to basically all trace back to Iwata and even Miyamoto moving up the ranks on Nintendo's Board of Directors. A few points I'd raise:

- Iwata after being groomed since about 1999/2000 takes over as Nintendo president officially in May 2002. His first major move as president? Selling Rare to Microsoft in September 2002. Despite spin at the time that Nintendo would use the money from the sale to invest in a similar Western studio (Zoonami was thrown around a lot), this never materializes.

- In basically two years, Iwata dismantles pretty much all of Nintendo's Western relationships. Silicon Knights is out. Factor 5 is out. NST is downsized to a Mario Vs. DK studio. Left Field is out. The deal for Star Wars exclusive games is not renewed. Nintendo Sports is shuttered.

- Now you may say 'b ... bu ... but Retro!", but Retro opened in 1999 was supposed to supply Nintendo with *multiple* games in genres like action/sports/shooters at once. That was Howard Lincoln's brainchild. Under Iwata, Retro is stripped down to one team and kept under an extremely tight leash where they only work on Nintendo IP. The same is basically true of Next Level Games (one game at a time, on a Japanese Nintendo IP only). Nintendo does work with a very small handful of Western companies, but basically only lets them work on Japanese IP that they're too busy to do themselves. No chance of an original IP like GoldenEye, Eternal Darkness, Killer Instinct, or NBA Courtside being greenlit here.

- Under Iwata, Nintendo finances many different 2nd party Japanese titles ... The Last Story, Bayonetta 2, Zengeki No Rengleiv, Endless Ocean 1/2, Pandora's Tower, Fatal Frame IV/V, Devil's Third, The Wonderful 101, etc. etc. etc. Yet they never do this with any Western developer, even though Western devs like the Darksiders guy did make advances towards Nintendo. Nope, Nintendo only bails out a project, like Devil's Third or Bayo 2 if it's a Japanese developer. Tough luck if you're American/European.

- Monster Hunter was a huge hit ... in Japan. Notice how Nintendo moved quickly to secure that as exclusive? But what about Western trends? They apparently won't even talk to the Minecraft people ... how much do you want to bet if Minecraft was a Japanese IP that there would be considerably more outreach from Iwata's Nintendo on it? You'd probably be able to play it on your Wii U/3DS right now if that was the case.

- Another example of Nintendo's complete disengagement from the West ... Activision actually apparently offered Nintendo exclusivity on the Skylanders franchise while it was in the conceptual phase, Nintendo basically told them "thanks, but no thanks".

- All their crossover games too are basically Japanese collaborations only. Hyrule Warriors, SMT x Fire Emblem, Metroid: Other M, Pokemon Conquest, Mario & Sonic are fair game ... but doing that with a Western IP ... nope.

- NOA is basically stripped of any real power they had. Reggie mentioned they liked Media Molecule (LittleBigPlanet) too and had them on their radar but Sony beat them to the punch. I really have to wonder if a lot of that has to do with NOA having no real power to make deals anymore. Iwata basically granting himself presidency over NOA when he himself admits he doesn't understand the Western market as well as Japan is just incredibly non-sensical.

I'm not saying supporting Japanese development is bad, but really the above points to a bit of a disturbing trend of bias. I understand Iwata comes from the Japanese game developer community and maybe views it like a fraternity where deals are inked over glass of sake, but really there should be no excuse for Nintendo to be a more closed off Japanese company in 2014 than they were in say 1997.

Nevermind the fact that both Silicon Knights and Factor 5 actually WANTED to break free from just Nintendo hardware? Also add the fact that both CEO's went freaking insane?

Yeah, Retro Studios had numerous projects before Metroid Prime. Too bad they were mostly all horrible and uncoordinated back then, hence they were all cancelled.

Goldeneye? An original IP? *facepalm*

Why am I not surprised this comes from VGChartz of all places? This is the biggest stretch I have EVER heard added with ill research.

#7 Posted by locopatho (20375 posts) -

That's really damn interesting. I'd never thought of that. The evidence is there though. Good article.

#8 Edited by Speak_Low (1097 posts) -

More balance with East/West development is needed for sure.

Iwata and Miyamoto probably don't play or care much about Western games (seriously, imagining them playing Gears, Uncharted and Mass Effect is hilarious).

CEOs and lead game designers aren't required to play and like everything, but they should think about the overall market, shifting trends and things outside of their own region. You can tell what games these two prefer more by the way their consoles and UI features are designed, and where they focus their attention with 2nd parties. They just assume all of that Western "COD/Uncharted/Gears/AC" fix (I bet they use the word "junk" in their offices) will be covered by third-parties. Their mistake was not making 2nd party games more Western-focused like those games, as a backup plan, in case third-party vanishes like it always have with this company.

And look at the Wii U now - third party did vanish, and they have nothing to make up for it, but lots of platformers and Devil's Third, though!

And before someone says, "b-bu-but COD/Uncharted/Gears/AC is trash" as if they're some edgy comedian, then Iwata and Miyamoto can demand their brilliant 2nd parties do something even better. Easy to criticize, and yet no one steps forward to do something better. If TLOU is also part of that "Western trash club," then Nintendo could partner with one of their existing Japanese devs or a new Western studio and make something that makes TLOU look like Sesame Street. But no, their best story is Bayo 2 and The Devil's Third. Wow, you showed them, Nintendo! Those sales are going to flow in like crazy now.

#9 Posted by foxhound_fox (88714 posts) -

If that means Nintendo making more AAA blockbusters then count me out. I'll take the decidedly "Japanese" games over that.

#10 Posted by locopatho (20375 posts) -

@foxhound_fox said:

If that means Nintendo making more AAA blockbusters then count me out. I'll take the decidedly "Japanese" games over that.

So you don't want any more Western developed games like, say, Metroid Prime? Or Perfect Dark?

Or do they not fit your definition of AAA blockbuster?

#11 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151416 posts) -

No. But the west doesn't support Nintendo that much either.

#12 Edited by nintendoboy16 (26889 posts) -

Wow, only so few users in that thread are calling bullshit on this. Sad...

#13 Posted by locopatho (20375 posts) -

@nintendoboy16 said:

Wow, only so few users in that thread are calling bullshit on this. Sad...

Dude, it's a well written article with facts and evidence to support it's points. You don't have to agree with it but just screaming BULLSHIT doesn't have the same impact.

#14 Posted by nintendoboy16 (26889 posts) -

@locopatho said:

Dude, it's a well written article with facts and evidence to support it's points. You don't have to agree with it but just screaming BULLSHIT doesn't have the same impact.

How? I'm sorry, but have you looked at that thread hard enough? A few users have also provided facts on why some of his points are... just that, BS, even to the point of sourcing them.

#15 Edited by Gue1 (10198 posts) -

I wish Sony were more Japanese biased because they only focus on Western games these days. The likes of Wild Arm, Legend of Dragoon, Siren, Ico, etc. they are all gone for good and they don't even give a fuck.

The Siren series has so much potential but Sony only made use of the IP once in the last generation by remaking the first game to ruin it by offering it through episodic content and digital only release. And even then it still was one of the best horror games of the last generation that pretty much no one has played.

#16 Edited by nintendoboy16 (26889 posts) -

@Gue1 said:

I wish Sony were more Japanese biased because they only focus on Western games. The likes of Wild Arm, Legend of Dragoon, Siren, Ico, etc. they are all gone for good and they don't even give a fuck.

I think this is part of the reason Japanese gaming is in the state it's in right now. Japanese pubs letting their IP's get too westernized or go for a complete western approach to their business. Konami and Capcom were also guilty of this.

#17 Edited by AzatiS (7643 posts) -

@nintendoboy16 said:

@locopatho said:

Dude, it's a well written article with facts and evidence to support it's points. You don't have to agree with it but just screaming BULLSHIT doesn't have the same impact.

How? I'm sorry, but have you looked at that thread hard enough? A few users have also provided facts on why some of his points are... just that, BS, even to the point of sourcing them.

Its the butthurt of some sheeps when someone telling his opinion while backing up his claims ... Let him be ! He goes mad mode whoever says something about Nintendo in a bitter fashion ! Typical fanboys

#18 Posted by locopatho (20375 posts) -

@nintendoboy16 said:

How? I'm sorry, but have you looked at that thread hard enough? A few users have also provided facts on why some of his points are... just that, BS, even to the point of sourcing them.

I read through the thread (fuck you for making me read a VgChartz thread :P). Most people agree, a few brought up more points supporting it. Namely Starcraft 64. Can you imagine Starcraft 2 coming to WiiU? Lol. And Retro on 2D mascot platformer duty. No "lol" for that one, just sads :(

#19 Edited by nintendoboy16 (26889 posts) -

@AzatiS said:

Its the butthurt of some sheeps when someone telling his opinion while backing up his claims ... Let him be ! He goes mad mode whoever says something about Nintendo in a bitter fashion ! Typical fanboys

This isn't mindless fanboy rage coming out of me. This is calling BS on what he calls "facts", which like I said, only a select few in that thread he linked are calling BS WITH sourced evidence.

#20 Posted by YearoftheSnake5 (7486 posts) -

I would recommend reading Gamecube's back story. It goes into a lot of detail regarding chip development, management shake ups, and the sale of Rare. Beats the hell out of reading some crappy breakdown on vgchartz.

#21 Edited by Boddicker (2797 posts) -

If even partially true this is disturbing.

As a child I worshipped at the almighty throne of Nintendo. The NES and SNES were untouchable. I laughed at "blast processing."

Fast forward 20+ years later and the playing field has changed dramatically. Now it's Sony and MS duking it for console supremacy with the Wii-U limping into a distant 3rd by the time this gen is over (don't need a crystal ball for that one).

I still think Nintendo has one more console in them. If that dramatically fails we could be seeing the demise of Nintendo. I wonder how many would have bemoaned the fall of Atari?

#22 Posted by nintendoboy16 (26889 posts) -

@locopatho said:

@nintendoboy16 said:

How? I'm sorry, but have you looked at that thread hard enough? A few users have also provided facts on why some of his points are... just that, BS, even to the point of sourcing them.

I read through the thread (fuck you for making me read a VgChartz thread :P). Most people agree, a few brought up more points supporting it. Namely Starcraft 64. Can you imagine Starcraft 2 coming to WiiU? Lol. And Retro on 2D mascot platformer duty. No "lol" for that one, just sads :(

Did you look hard enough? Some of those don't support his claims at all. I read through ALL the damn pages (as of this writing, it's up to fifteen).

Starcraft 64? You mean the console port of Starcraft that much of the Starcraft fandom did nothing but shun, namely for it's controls, sound (cartridge limits, of course), and censorship of language (ex: Kerrigan doesn't say her "Queen B*** of the universe" line and Raynor doesn't call General Duke and the Terran Confederacy a "Pain in the Ass", nor does he use the term "bullshit" criticizing Arcturus' motives), the last one being a very weird case considering Nintendo allowed other devs, such as Rare to throw in curse words in Perfect Dark (gunmen calling Joanna a "B****" before they die)?

#23 Posted by locopatho (20375 posts) -

@nintendoboy16 said:

Did you look hard enough? Some of those don't support his claims at all. I read through ALL the damn pages (as of this writing, it's up to fifteen).

Starcraft 64? You mean the console port of Starcraft that much of the Starcraft fandom did nothing but shun, namely for it's controls, sound (cartridge limits, of course), and censorship of language (ex: Kerrigan doesn't say her "Queen B*** of the universe" line and Raynor doesn't call General Duke and the Terran Confederacy a "Pain in the Ass", nor does he use the term "bullshit" criticizing Arcturus' motives), the last one being a very weird case considering Nintendo allowed other devs, such as Rare to throw in curse words in Perfect Dark (gunmen calling Joanna a "B****" before they die)?

Nah, I'm not reading 15 pages. Read the first 5.

People's opinions of it's quality are irrelevant: the FACT is that Nintendo secured it for their system. Can you imagine them securing a Blizzard game today? Nope, that's Sony and MS who got Diablo III for their fans.

The facts, man, the facts! ;)

#24 Posted by inb4uall (5806 posts) -

@speak_low said:

More balance with East/West development is needed for sure.

Iwata and Miyamoto probably don't play or care much about Western games (seriously, imagining them playing Gears, Uncharted and Mass Effect is hilarious).

CEOs and lead game designers aren't required to play and like everything, but they should think about the overall market, shifting trends and things outside of their own region. You can tell what games these two prefer more by the way their consoles and UI features are designed, and where they focus their attention with 2nd parties. They just assume all of that Western "COD/Uncharted/Gears/AC" fix (I bet they use the word "junk" in their offices) will be covered by third-parties. Their mistake was not making 2nd party games more Western-focused like those games, as a backup plan, in case third-party vanishes like it always have with this company.

And look at the Wii U now - third party did vanish, and they have nothing to make up for it, but lots of platformers and Devil's Third, though!

And before someone says, "b-bu-but COD/Uncharted/Gears/AC is trash" as if they're some edgy comedian, then Iwata and Miyamoto can demand their brilliant 2nd parties do something even better. Easy to criticize, and yet no one steps forward to do something better. If TLOU is also part of that "Western trash club," then Nintendo could partner with one of their existing Japanese devs or a new Western studio and make something that makes TLOU look like Sesame Street. But no, their best story is Bayo 2 and The Devil's Third. Wow, you showed them, Nintendo! Those sales are going to flow in like crazy now.

Why would sheep so desperately want that 8.0 flop of a game TLOU? just lol.

#25 Posted by SambaLele (5424 posts) -

Good article, but I'd also like to hear something about if western publishers seek for japanese dev studios and try to bring them to the western scene. We've seem a bit of that with MS and Mistwalker before, but not much else. What we commonly see is a total lack of interaction between the eastern and western scenes, each funding and publishing developers from their own regions. Am I wrong in thinking Nintendo is not alone in this? Are there, for example, jap dev studios under EA, Ubisoft, Act. Blizzard doing anything more than region specific games? I don't know how well it can all be translated into just company bias.

#26 Edited by charizard1605 (58183 posts) -

I think they are, yes.

#27 Edited by Boddicker (2797 posts) -

@speak_low said:

More balance with East/West development is needed for sure.

Iwata and Miyamoto probably don't play or care much about Western games (seriously, imagining them playing Gears, Uncharted and Mass Effect is hilarious).

CEOs and lead game designers aren't required to play and like everything, but they should think about the overall market, shifting trends and things outside of their own region. You can tell what games these two prefer more by the way their consoles and UI features are designed, and where they focus their attention with 2nd parties. They just assume all of that Western "COD/Uncharted/Gears/AC" fix (I bet they use the word "junk" in their offices) will be covered by third-parties. Their mistake was not making 2nd party games more Western-focused like those games, as a backup plan, in case third-party vanishes like it always have with this company.

And look at the Wii U now - third party did vanish, and they have nothing to make up for it, but lots of platformers and Devil's Third, though!

And before someone says, "b-bu-but COD/Uncharted/Gears/AC is trash" as if they're some edgy comedian, then Iwata and Miyamoto can demand their brilliant 2nd parties do something even better. Easy to criticize, and yet no one steps forward to do something better. If TLOU is also part of that "Western trash club," then Nintendo could partner with one of their existing Japanese devs or a new Western studio and make something that makes TLOU look like Sesame Street. But no, their best story is Bayo 2 and The Devil's Third. Wow, you showed them, Nintendo! Those sales are going to flow in like crazy now.

#28 Posted by nintendoboy16 (26889 posts) -

@locopatho said:

@nintendoboy16 said:

Did you look hard enough? Some of those don't support his claims at all. I read through ALL the damn pages (as of this writing, it's up to fifteen).

Starcraft 64? You mean the console port of Starcraft that much of the Starcraft fandom did nothing but shun, namely for it's controls, sound (cartridge limits, of course), and censorship of language (ex: Kerrigan doesn't say her "Queen B*** of the universe" line and Raynor doesn't call General Duke and the Terran Confederacy a "Pain in the Ass", nor does he use the term "bullshit" criticizing Arcturus' motives), the last one being a very weird case considering Nintendo allowed other devs, such as Rare to throw in curse words in Perfect Dark (gunmen calling Joanna a "B****" before they die)?

Nah, I'm not reading 15 pages. Read the first 5.

People's opinions of it's quality are irrelevant: the FACT is that Nintendo secured it for their system. Can you imagine them securing a Blizzard game today? Nope, that's Sony and MS who got Diablo III for their fans.

The facts, man, the facts! ;)

So, those who disowned the SNES version of the first Mortal Kombat were irrelevant back then due to their hatred of that port?

So you're not going to bother finding the actual refutes to this?

#29 Posted by bbkkristian (14955 posts) -

yes, It's a shame that they have a branch to monitor the west and they don't utilize the resources the west can provide.

#30 Posted by foxhound_fox (88714 posts) -

@locopatho: Well obviously Metroid Prime isn't a AAA blockbuster, it requires patience and puzzle solving ability. AAA blockbusters focus on action over substance and the Prime games focus on substance over action (which was seen as a detriment for a lot of people, who called the game boring).

But you obviously are trying to make some irrelevant point. Of course Nintendo could make another game like Perfect Dark, but they, again, would step far away from the spunkgargleweewee formula e are so used to that to consider it a AAA blockbuster would be unusual.

And really, the level of quality and polish that Nintendo puts into their games really negates any advantage a high-budget game might have production values ultimately mean nothing if there isn't a solid game foundation underneath it all.

#31 Posted by jg4xchamp (48357 posts) -

@foxhound_fox said:

If that means Nintendo making more AAA blockbusters then count me out. I'll take the decidedly "Japanese" games over that.

Why the zero sum game?

They are a console provider, they are trying to provide a platform that provides games for gamers. Why is it a or b? it's supposed to be C: both of the above.

#32 Edited by osan0 (12743 posts) -

i wouldnt say they are against the west but more for japan. thin line i know :P.

i think it would do nintendo the world of good to go dev shopping around the world. get a few CDPRs and so on under their wing (small devs with good ideas that could become very big). focus on developers that make or want to make games that nintendo themselves dont make or have any experience in.

all i will say was that when project offset was rumoured to be going to the wiiu (well OK the actual rumor was using project offset footage and claiming it as a new wiiu exclusive) people sat up and took notice. well those that didnt recognise project offset took notice :P.

#33 Posted by KBFloYd (13809 posts) -

they definitelty favorite japan. they always have. ever since the nes/snes. nothing new. just means they havnt changed.

#34 Edited by locopatho (20375 posts) -

@foxhound_fox said:

@locopatho: Well obviously Metroid Prime isn't a AAA blockbuster, it requires patience and puzzle solving ability. AAA blockbusters focus on action over substance and the Prime games focus on substance over action (which was seen as a detriment for a lot of people, who called the game boring).

But you obviously are trying to make some irrelevant point. Of course Nintendo could make another game like Perfect Dark, but they, again, would step far away from the spunkgargleweewee formula e are so used to that to consider it a AAA blockbuster would be unusual.

And really, the level of quality and polish that Nintendo puts into their games really negates any advantage a high-budget game might have production values ultimately mean nothing if there isn't a solid game foundation underneath it all.

Lol. That's what I thought. You just use "AAA blockbuster" to mean what you consider to be "bad". News flash, a game that sells millions of copies, gets the joint highest review scores of it's generation on Metacritic (same as Halo and Grand Theft Auto 3), gets heaps of Game Of The Year awards (including from Gamespot, Gamerankings and Metacritic), and rereleased and remastered on the next console is the very definition of a AAA blockbuster :D

The only thing "irrelevant" is your garbled, self centered idea of what a AAA blockbuster is ;)

#35 Posted by Seabas989 (10394 posts) -

I would say they favor Japan more but probably because of handhelds being favored there a lot more.

#36 Posted by 93BlackHawk93 (5638 posts) -

Sadly true.

#37 Posted by Suppaman100 (3939 posts) -

@KBFloYd said:

they definitelty favorite japan. they always have. ever since the nes/snes. nothing new. just means they havnt changed.

Yep the haven't changed and that's why they're sinking.

#38 Edited by KBFloYd (13809 posts) -

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

they definitelty favorite japan. they always have. ever since the nes/snes. nothing new. just means they havnt changed.

Yep the haven't changed and that's why they're sinking.

i dont run nintendo...they must not feel the need to change or else they would have.

#39 Posted by Suppaman100 (3939 posts) -

@KBFloYd said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

they definitelty favorite japan. they always have. ever since the nes/snes. nothing new. just means they havnt changed.

Yep the haven't changed and that's why they're sinking.

i dont run nintendo...they must not feel the need to change or else they would have.

True.

Quite a bit worrying, knowing sales are horrible for Wii U and ok for 3DS that management of Nintendo don't feel the need to change it up.

Also very worrying that handhelds are Nintendo's bread and butter and they will go down soon or later thanks to the rise of smartphones.

Well, atleast Nintendo has the cash to continue with their current strategy for a few more gens, don't know if shareholders will be happy with it though.

#40 Edited by KBFloYd (13809 posts) -

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

they definitelty favorite japan. they always have. ever since the nes/snes. nothing new. just means they havnt changed.

Yep the haven't changed and that's why they're sinking.

i dont run nintendo...they must not feel the need to change or else they would have.

True.

Quite a bit worrying, knowing sales are horrible for Wii U and ok for 3DS that management of Nintendo don't feel the need to change it up.

Also very worrying that handhelds are Nintendo's bread and butter and they will go down soon or later thanks to the rise of smartphones.

Well, atleast Nintendo has the cash to continue with their current strategy for a few more gens, don't know if shareholders will be happy with it though.

yea.. imo..their 3rd party policy is what most hurts their consoles. lacking other features like blu-ray hurt..but not as much. their handhelds do fine.

im not too sure mobile phones will take over handheld gamming. the games available on those are very cheap imo. major companies have to start making games for it..to have any effect on nintendos handhelds. but we'll see what nintendos next gen handheld will be?

#41 Posted by funsohng (28105 posts) -

@speak_low said:
Miyamoto probably don't play or care much about Western games (seriously, imagining them playing Gears, Uncharted and Mass Effect is hilarious)

Actually, Miyamoto does play Western games. I remember one E3 where he was playing Killzone 2 or 3.

#42 Edited by Suppaman100 (3939 posts) -

@KBFloYd said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

they definitelty favorite japan. they always have. ever since the nes/snes. nothing new. just means they havnt changed.

Yep the haven't changed and that's why they're sinking.

i dont run nintendo...they must not feel the need to change or else they would have.

True.

Quite a bit worrying, knowing sales are horrible for Wii U and ok for 3DS that management of Nintendo don't feel the need to change it up.

Also very worrying that handhelds are Nintendo's bread and butter and they will go down soon or later thanks to the rise of smartphones.

Well, atleast Nintendo has the cash to continue with their current strategy for a few more gens, don't know if shareholders will be happy with it though.

yea.. imo..their 3rd party policy is what most hurts their consoles. lacking other features like blu-ray hurt..but not as much. their handhelds do fine.

im not too sure mobile phones will take over handheld gamming. the games available on those are very cheap imo. major companies have to start making games for it..to have any effect on nintendos handhelds. but we'll see what nintendos next gen handheld will be?

Yep, interesting times.

I hope I'm wrong about the smartphones but numbers don't lie.

And that's only untill 2011...

I'm really curious on how Nintendo will react on this evolution. Will Iwata and co stay with their heads in the sand? Or will they act accordingly....maybe even go third party?

#43 Posted by KBFloYd (13809 posts) -

@Suppaman100 said:

Yep, interesting times.

I hope I'm wrong about the smartphones but numbers don't lie.

And that's only untill 2011...

I'm really curious on how Nintendo will react on this evolution. Will Iwata and co stay with their heads in the sand? Or will they act accordingly....maybe even go third party?

guess we'll have to see how nintendo approaches this...

#44 Posted by thedude- (2271 posts) -

This VGchartz thread is extremely relevant, whether some of the facts are a little off or not the overall theme is absolutely true. Look at Nintendo's lineup throughout the years. Look at their relationship with the most dominant third parties. Nintendo absolutely wants a more Japanese focused company that can convince Western gamers why Eastern focused games are fun. Less and and less Nintendo properties make an impact like SSB, MK, Mario Party... Xenoblade X Chronicles and Bayonetta 2 are bold attempts but will have moderate sales at best. Devil's Third, I have lower expectations.

This has been Nintendo's single biggest problem as it is interconnected with so many other shortcomings tied to the company.

Expand the output of Next Level Games, let Retro do projects they were meant to do not 2d platformers like DKCTF, and find a new smart development team in the West. Nintendo does not need a robust third party lineup but it would do wonders with a diversified first and second party list of games.

#45 Edited by sHaDyCuBe321 (4145 posts) -

@AzatiS said:

@nintendoboy16 said:

@locopatho said:

Dude, it's a well written article with facts and evidence to support it's points. You don't have to agree with it but just screaming BULLSHIT doesn't have the same impact.

How? I'm sorry, but have you looked at that thread hard enough? A few users have also provided facts on why some of his points are... just that, BS, even to the point of sourcing them.

Its the butthurt of some sheeps when someone telling his opinion while backing up his claims ... Let him be ! He goes mad mode whoever says something about Nintendo in a bitter fashion ! Typical fanboys

There goes Azatis again. The anti-Nintendo feelings in this guy are insane. Probably the most butthurt person on these boards.

#46 Posted by hiphops_savior (7941 posts) -

@YearoftheSnake5: You should make an entire topic on it. The read itself alone is worth a new topic. BTW, I think the article could've easily been split into several parts. It seems to be trying to cover too many points and facets behind the Gamecube.

TL DR edition: Motion controls were in development since the launch of the Gamecube, and the design of the Gamecube foreshadows the architecture of the Wii U.

#47 Edited by sHaDyCuBe321 (4145 posts) -

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

they definitelty favorite japan. they always have. ever since the nes/snes. nothing new. just means they havnt changed.

Yep the haven't changed and that's why they're sinking.

i dont run nintendo...they must not feel the need to change or else they would have.

True.

Quite a bit worrying, knowing sales are horrible for Wii U and ok for 3DS that management of Nintendo don't feel the need to change it up.

Also very worrying that handhelds are Nintendo's bread and butter and they will go down soon or later thanks to the rise of smartphones.

Well, atleast Nintendo has the cash to continue with their current strategy for a few more gens, don't know if shareholders will be happy with it though.

yea.. imo..their 3rd party policy is what most hurts their consoles. lacking other features like blu-ray hurt..but not as much. their handhelds do fine.

im not too sure mobile phones will take over handheld gamming. the games available on those are very cheap imo. major companies have to start making games for it..to have any effect on nintendos handhelds. but we'll see what nintendos next gen handheld will be?

Yep, interesting times.

I hope I'm wrong about the smartphones but numbers don't lie.

And that's only untill 2011...

I'm really curious on how Nintendo will react on this evolution. Will Iwata and co stay with their heads in the sand? Or will they act accordingly....maybe even go third party?

The only problem I see here is that the pie chart is not taking into account the sheer number of phones that are out there. 70 million out of 100 million is 70%, but 70 million out of 194 million is 36%. The handheld market might not necessarily be shrinking, it's just that the mobile gaming market might be expanding.

#48 Edited by Speak_Low (1097 posts) -
@inb4uall said:

Why would sheep so desperately want that 8.0 flop of a game TLOU? just lol.

Well my whole post (when you don't address some things I've said, I assume you loved it and agreed with it) was about Nintendo having all that marvelous company freedom to surpass those games if they wanted. I know the moment I mention anything that isn't a Nintendo 1st/2nd party game, and the moment it makes too much money, it's automatically crap and trash to many Nintendo owners (AC, COD, GTA, TLOU, Uncharted, Gears, etc). So that's why I said "okay, Nintendo, show me better."

I'm just saying that Nintendo could've assembled a stronger dream team of Japan + Western devs years ago, and we'd be seeing more games today that rival or even destroy whatever deep storytelling or more "Western" titles ND, Ubisoft and Rockstar could create. But when I look at what's cookin in Nintendo land when it comes to 2nd party today, I see The Devil's Third. And that's a Nintendo-funded game that's trying to compete with popular Western titles? Ugh.

The reality is, it's not so easy making a successful game with good storytelling and something that can satisfy Western tastes. It took Rockstar, ND and other devs many titles and years of hard work, and they're still figuring things out (and there's room for improvement even from these very seasoned and talented developers). Whoever made The Devil's Third couldn't make something as interesting or a good as TLOU or GTA V. People who say they could are like those delusional couch potatoes who say they could win the Olympic Gold Medal, Heisman Trophy and Pulitzer Prize if they wanted, but just don't feel like it. Suuuuuuure you could, buddy.

My suggestion for Nintendo and 2nd parties to branch out and readjust their focus a tad more towards Western-style games doesn't mean it will suddenly change everything overnight either. Nintendo should've started a more Western focus years ago, and should've been entering their creative stride and peak right now, not just starting and reacting to the desperate install base situation they're seeing now. So, to put it simply - it's kind of too late, and many of Nintendo's teams are too undercooked to handle what ND, Rockstar, Ubisoft, etc are doing because they didn't put the time in (and neither can Rockstar or Ubisoft easily do whatever platform games Nintendo 1st party makes, so it goes both ways. Dev teams need to go through those long learning phases).

There is one alternative that could work imo, and that is going with the smaller "piece-by-piece" episodic method like what TellTale Games do with The Walking Dead/Wolf Among Us (and their future Borderlands/Game of Thrones). Other than that, I don't see Nintendo successfully forcing their 2nd parties to make games that can rival polished Western AAA titles like TLOU, Uncharted, AC and GTA (popular games that Nintendo really needs to capitalize on and have as exclusives too). And I'm tired of hearing people say "EW I don't want those games!" The point I keep making is, these varied games attract more console buyers, so I'm not saying Nintendo has to make it exactly the way those devs make it, and maybe they could make it better or add their own Nintendo stamp or flair. It'd be nice if people stop flipping out whenever I mention AAA action, blockbuster, movie-esque, TPS, FPS or open world sandbox games. Some Nintendo owners act like they're absolute poison (if you're going to act so resistant and elitist, why do you accept The Devil's Third as a good addition to the Wii U library? lmao)

@Boddicker said:

Cool. Even Xtina agrees there needs to be more Western partnerships!

@funsohng said:

@speak_low said:
Miyamoto probably don't play or care much about Western games (seriously, imagining them playing Gears, Uncharted and Mass Effect is hilarious)

Actually, Miyamoto does play Western games. I remember one E3 where he was playing Killzone 2 or 3.

So he just played a demo at E3 and that is enough? Is he a fan and has he played more than five of them to completion the past two years? If he doesn't play them, I don't really mind it - you can't force him to change his tastes, obviously. But I just have a feeling he and Iwata are more about games like Pikmin/Animal Crossing/Brain Age and don't care one bit about games like Far Cry 4, The Order, GTA V, TLOU and Halo 5. Still, Iwata and those in charge still need to make the successor cater to all types of gamers next time (I don't think the Wii U is quite there with the small Hard Drive, low power output, low specs, etc)

#49 Edited by Boddicker (2797 posts) -

@funsohng said:

@speak_low said:
Miyamoto probably don't play or care much about Western games (seriously, imagining them playing Gears, Uncharted and Mass Effect is hilarious)

Actually, Miyamoto does play Western games. I remember one E3 where he was playing Killzone 2 or 3.

Did he play like shit?

I almost feel embarrassed for Miyamoto when I see him unveiling and playing a new Mario.

#50 Posted by foxhound_fox (88714 posts) -

@locopatho said:

@foxhound_fox said:

@locopatho: Well obviously Metroid Prime isn't a AAA blockbuster, it requires patience and puzzle solving ability. AAA blockbusters focus on action over substance and the Prime games focus on substance over action (which was seen as a detriment for a lot of people, who called the game boring).

But you obviously are trying to make some irrelevant point. Of course Nintendo could make another game like Perfect Dark, but they, again, would step far away from the spunkgargleweewee formula e are so used to that to consider it a AAA blockbuster would be unusual.

And really, the level of quality and polish that Nintendo puts into their games really negates any advantage a high-budget game might have production values ultimately mean nothing if there isn't a solid game foundation underneath it all.

Lol. That's what I thought. You just use "AAA blockbuster" to mean what you consider to be "bad". News flash, a game that sells millions of copies, gets the joint highest review scores of it's generation on Metacritic (same as Halo and Grand Theft Auto 3), gets heaps of Game Of The Year awards (including from Gamespot, Gamerankings and Metacritic), and rereleased and remastered on the next console is the very definition of a AAA blockbuster :D

The only thing "irrelevant" is your garbled, self centered idea of what a AAA blockbuster is ;)

No, I use "AAA blockbuster" to describe "AAA blockbusters". Games with high production values that focus on action and cinematic experiences over substance. Things like Call of Duty, Battlefield and the like.

Not every movie is a "summer blockbuster", and not every game is a "AAA blockbuster". The term has come to mean something far more specific than a high-scoring, successful game. It's a design philosophy now, developers who make them use the high production values and marketing campaigns to make hard and fast returns on their investments.

Nintendo isn't like that. They make "art house" films, that focus on providing the person playing them with a meaningful experience.