Is it true Western mainstream games overtook Japan?

And don't go Persona on me, coz hermits could pull dozens of obscure and complex RPGs with cult statuses. Let's STICK to MAINSTREAM gaming! Apart from fighting games and hack'n'slash ones I can't think of any other mainstream genre in mainstream gaming which isn't dominated by European / American developers. Racing games? PGR, Forza, NFS, GRID franchises wipe the floor with just one Gran Turismo maybe not yet sales-wise but definitely critically and quantity-wise, and Japan doesn't even produce any prominent arcade racers anymore. RPGs? While Final Fantasy is still living off its reputation, it's hardly the most talked franchise compared to juggernauts like Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect and The Witcher (not to mention commercially successful Dragon Age). Games involving stealth? Just one MGS which is becoming less and less stealthy vs Dishonored, Splinter Cell Blacklist, Metro games, Hitman Absolution, etc. Survival horror games? Both Amnesia games say hello. Dead Space franchise eviscerated Resident Evil franchise last gen to the white bone. And don't even get me started on FPS, TPS, FPS/RPG hybrids and strategy games. Oh and if you count Valkyria Chronicles as RPG, then Xcom had considerably greater critical acclaim as well. Sports games? FIFA overtook Pro Evolution Soccer and the Japanese don't make any other mainstream sports games (INB4 Wii Sports. THAT IS NOT HOWEVER TO SAY Japan doesn't have anything to offer. They're still relevant in fighters and hack'n'slash games, though they lhave become something of a niche. You could say Nintendo studios still excel at platformers but do you remember what happened to latest Mario vs Knack? I love Japanese games on handhelds and this is their most thriving natural habitat. And of course there are still some major, quality Japanese games for the world market, just not a whole lot. Anyway you cannot escape the fact that all best-selling Japanese franchises worldwide milk their reputation while are worse rated than their predecessors and at the same time Western devs overtook them in almost all mainstream genres in mainstream gaming I mentioned. Oh and treat JRPGs and WRPGs as one and the same (I forgot to bring up Dark souls btw). Anyway, what do you think? And don't try to grasp at straws or look for one loophole which will invalidate my opinion, coz if you do and won't bother with backing it up with arguments, I won't take you seriously. Open your mind and try to look at the bigger picture.

Holy wall o'text batman! But I agree that Japan in general (yes yes you can point to isolated or specific games) got left well behind last gen. Maybe their developers can right their ship this time around?

I typed it on the phone while commuting to work, sorry for not dividing it into paragraphs, my phone was getting laggy...

For console games they sure have. They are still thriving on handhelds though.

lolz handheld gaming

I'll just name a couple of JPN games that are going to be released in Japan

PS4

1. Ryuu ga Gotoku Ishin!
2. Shin Sangoku Musou 7 with Moushouden
3. Guilty Gear Xrd: Sign
4. Lily Bergamo

PS3

1. Draog-on Dragoon
2. Shin Gundam Musou
3. ‘&’ -sora no Mukou de sakimasu you ni-
4. Final Fantasy X/X-2
5. Sengoku Hime 3: Tenka o Kirisaku Hikari to Kage
6. Short Peace: Tsukigime Ranko no Ichiban Nagai Hi
7. Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Z
8. Sengoku Basara 4
9. Ar no Surge: Umareizuru Hoshi he inoru Shi
10. Mobile Suit Gundam Extreme VS. Full Boost
11. Rozen Maiden: Wechseln Sie Welt ab
12. Daisenryaku Perfect: Senjou no Hasha
13. Puyo Puyo Tetris
14. Super Heroine Chronicle
15. Infinite Stratos 2: Ignition Hearts
16. Kagero: Dark Side Princess
17. Sakigake! Otoko Juku: Nihonyo Korega Otoko de aru
18. Sengoku Hime 4: Souha Hyakkei Hanamamoru Chikai
19. Hatsune Miku -Project DIVA- F 2nd
20. Oretachi Ni Tsubasa Wa Nai: Under the Innocent Sky
21. J-Stars Victory Vs
22. Motto! SoniComi
23. Sengoku Musou 4
24. Persona 4: The Ultimax Ultra Suplex Hold
25. Persona 5
26. Akumajyou Dracula: Lords of Shadow 2
27. Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2
28. Mato Kurenai Yuugekitai: Tokyo Twilight Ghosthunters
29. Naruto Shippuden: Narutimate Storm Revolution
30. Psychobreak
31. Tales of Zestiria

Vita

1. Sword Art Online: Hollow Fragment
2. Tokyo Shinseiroku: Operation Abyss
3. Amnesia: V Edition
4. Utagumi 575
5. Diabolik Lovers
6. Kagero: Dark Side Princess
7. Hakuouki Kyoukaroku
8. Makai Senki Disgaea 4 Return
9. Chou Jijigen Game Neptune Re: Birth 2 Sisters Generation [
10. Monster Hunter Frontier G
11. Hakuoki SSL: Sweet School Life
12. Chronos Materia
13. Phantom Breaker: Battle Ground
14. Nihon Pro Mahjong Renmei Kounin: Tokoton Mahjong! Joryu Pro ni Chousen! Tetsuman Megami Special
15. Ebikore + Amagami
16. Freedom Wars
17. Corpse Party: Blood Drive
18. Soul Sacrifice Delta
19. Kan Colle Kai
20. Phantasy Star Nova
21. Chou no Doku Hana no Kusari: Taishou Irokoi Ibun
22. Persona 4: Dancing All Night
23. Girls & Panzer: Senshado Kiwamemasu!
24. Eiyuu Densetsu: Ao no Kiseki Evolution
25. Robotics;Notes
26. Valhalla Knights 3 Gold
27. WRC 4 FIA World Rally Championship
28. Rewrite
29. Love Live! School Idol Paradise Vol.1 Printemps Unit
30. Ore no Shikabane o Koete Yuke 2
31. Zettai Zetsubou Shoujo Danganronpa Another Episode

PSP

1. After School: Colorful Step Undou-bu!
2. Getsuei no Kusari: Kyouran Moratorium
3. Ore no Kanojo no Ura Omote: Pure Sweet Heart
4. Taishoukitan
5. Jewelic Nightmare
6. -8
7. Kiniro no Corda 3: Another Sky feat. Jinnan
8. Akaya Akashiya Ayakashi No
9. Arabian Doubt
10. Shinobi Koiutsutsu
11. Suzunone Seven! Portable
12. Bakumatsu Rock
13. Chronostacia
14. Geten no Hana: Yume Akari
15. Iza, Shutsujin! Koisen Dai-ni-maku - Echigo Hen
16. Iza, Shutsujin! Koisen Dai-ni-maku - Kai Hen
17. Shiei no Sona-Nyl Refrain: -What a beautiful memories-
18. Taisho Mebiusline Portable
19. After School: Colorful Step ~ Bunkabu!
20. Daisenryaku: Dai Toua Kouboushi - Dainijisekaitaisen Boppatsu - Suujiku Sentai Rengougun Zensekaisen
21. Hoshi no Furu Koku Portable
22. Juuza Engi: Engetsu Sangokuden 2
23. Maru Goukaku + NextRev: IT Passport Shiken Portable
24. Koezaru ha Akaihana: Daiga ha Mirai wo Tsumugu

3DS

1. Boku wa Koukuu Kanseikan: Airport Hero 3D - Shin Chitose with JAL
2. High School DxD
3. Koneko no Album -My Little Cat-
4. Metal Fight Beyblade: 4D x Zero-G Ultimate Tournament
5. Oshaberi Usagi Mechakawa Oshare Collection
6. Fate/Kaleid Liner: Prisma Illya
7. VitaminX Evolution Plus
8. Game Center CX San Choume no Arino
9. Karous: The Beast of Re:Eden
10. Toshin Toshi: Girls Gift RPG
11. Dragon Quest Monsters 2: Iru to Ruka no Fushigina Fushigina Kagi
12. A-Ressha de Ikou 3d
13. Magi: Aratanaru Sekai
14. Kuroko No Basuke: Shouri e no Kiseki
15. Anpanman to Asobu: New Aiueo Kyoushitsu
16. Bokujou Monogatari: Tsunagaru Shin Tenchi
17. Doraemon: Shin Nobita no Daimakyou Peko to 5-nin no Tankentai
18. New Love Plus +
19. Devil Survivor 2 Break Record
20. Shikakui Atama o Maru Kusuru. Expert Kanji - Keisan - Zukei
21. Shikakui Atama o Maru Kusuru. Junior Kokugo - Sansuu - Shakai - Rika - Seikatsu
22. Shikakui Atama o Maru Kusuru. Master Kokugo - Sansuu - Shakai - Rika
23. Hero Bank
24. Crayon Shin Chan: Arashi wo Yobu Kasukabe Eiga Start!
25. Persona Q: Shadow of the Labyrinth
26. Bravely Second
27. EST
28. Maple Story: Unmei no Shoujyou
29. Osawari Tantei Ozawa Rina Rising 3
30. Theatrhythm Final Fantasy: Curtain Call
31. Tank Beat 3

Fighting games have always been in the wests favor. Or America to be more accurate, as that's where the fighting sims and boxing games are, which both sell more than most niche JP fighting games put together, and then you add in the fictional fighters like MK etc, it just adds more topping.

Hack N slash games are a mixed bag because hack n slash elements are in tons of games that are not hack n slash, and when you look at hack n slash games you realize there are so few in reality it's closer than it seems.

Japan has NEVER even been even HALF-WAY BEHIND in racers. That's how far they have been GT and some arcade racers have been the best they have ever done. Mario Kart being the other exception.

Square Enix has been the only Japanese company that has produced rpgs with a large fanbase and following outside of japan. Jrpgs fans and weaboo fans, and anime fans will tell you that Square Enix opened the doors to Jrpgs when they did nothing but open the door to theirselves. At no point did the average Jrpgs become more mainstream than the average Wrpg out of japan. The highest selling gen for Jrpgs by numerous other companies was LAST GEN and that's when people said they were dying, that gives you info right there.

Another genre where there was only one exception. Other than of course the very short initial success of Tenchu.

This is the closest you have. but even then, it was only part of one gen where it dominated in japans favor. Before and after the RES/SH rush was nothing much.

They have never dominated in these categories.

Pro Evolution never overtook Fifa. Ever. Period.

Again, no, fighters have been decribed above, and Hack N' Slash again, was never a relevant genre on its own.

No i couldn't. Nintendo platformers and associates on nintendos platforms making platformers got their ass handed to them 2 gens in a row (second of the two was like seeing a score of 80-7 in a football game) and most platformers this gen that are getting a lot of acclaim where a few returns from other gens, Banjo, Rand C, etc. and a lot of praise for Indie like or company small budget games you find in places like XBLA. Throw in Ios and it's like nothing happened.

(also Knack is not a platformer)

It's hard for them to overtake something they already had.

I heard that Knack outsold Super Mario 3D World. But that's because PS4 owners didn't have much of a choice between the two games there are for the PS4 so far! haha

I'm disappointed in Knack, it's a painfully average beat em up. I thought they would try to make something original and innovative.

But on topic, western games are definitely taking over. It's nothing new. It's all about marketing. I don't see any commercials on TV for Japanese games unless they're for Mario or Sonic.

Eh. I guess I can't really complain. My favorite genre/subgenre is fading into obscurity. All that means for me is that I won't have to spend so much money anymore. And it also means when a good JRPG is finally released, it will be a huge deal! We've got Call of Duty clones being released every day, it's not so often we see a good JRPG with a "pre-order now!' ad.

At Gamestop the other day, I found Persona 3 FES with a sticker but no price. I brought it up to the counter to ask how much it was. The guy looked at it, saw it was a PS2 game and said "I guarantee you not a lot." He scans it and was shocked to see it was $30. If he had known the game series, he wouldn't have been surprised about the price. Persona could be considered one of the most successful JRPG series in the states, but considering how Gamestop employees haven't even heard of it, it just goes to show you how obscure Japanese titles are today. (Unless they're Sonic or Mario.)

I still think Japan makes the best games, I know that makes me sound like a weeb, but my favorite memories playing games on the PS3, Wii, and 360 come from Japanese games. (Tales of Vesperia, Tales of Graces f, White Knight Chronicles, Metal Gear Rising, Silent Hill Homecoming, The Last Story, Xenoblade Chronicles, Pandora's Tower, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Generations, Sonic Colors, Resonance of Fate, Catherine, etc.) I'm struggling to think of western games for the past generation that I REALLY liked other than World of Warcraft...

Overall, Japanese games fading into obscurity is bad news for me. But I'm trying to stay positive because it means I won't be spending as much money!

The Japanese play on handhelds or phones; if you don't like either of those categories, then don't bother with Japanese games. Japan is all but dead in the console space, and was non-existent in the PC space. Do you want reasons for why this happened?

1. Japan moved to mobile; Japanese devs make games primarily for a Japanese audiences, so they followed the money.

2. Japanese developers often didn't use middleware, and instead made entirely new engines not just for every series or so, but often for EVERY new game. That's a lot of wasted time.

3. This ties in with 1: The Japanese gaming scene is too different than the Western gaming scene. In Japan, playing videogames when you're older than 18 is a source of shame, and you'd rarely ever discuss it in public. As much as weaboos hate to admit it, Japanese games are designed for kids and teens. The Western audience is dominated by 20-30 year olds, and not all of these people are old Nintendo and Katamari Damacy fans who can ignore a games cutesy styling due to its great gameplay. There's a natural disconnect between the two markets.

4. Budgest; most Japanese studios just didn't have the necessary funds to compete in the modern world. This wouldn't have been a problem if the type of games they were developing (ie JRPGs) weren't enormous projects that don't translate well into the HD 3d realm without considerable resources and time.

5. Lack of familiarity with PC. Many modders go on to have successful careers in the industry. Without that thriving mod scene, Japan was at a disadvantage, and you simply don't have any sort of real mod scene when you never release your games on PC.

No it couldn't

Silent hill homecoming is also not a japanese game.

In sales sure, the mainstream side of the West is more successful.

better games? Not really. The west's best stuff is indie, their triple A guys? largely unimpressive. Not that Japan hasn't fallen off, they have.

I know that Persona is very mainstream and popular in Japan. The marketing they do for it in Japan is no less than you'd expect for CoD games in Western countries.

Silent Hill has been in the hands of Western developers for the two past games, a couple of folks brought it so I thought I'd correct it. Btw SH or Dead Rising being outsourced to Western devs speaks volumes about something...

Speaks nothing. Your whole argument is overtake which is impossible because the west already had it.

Ive always preferred western games.

Although having loved dark souls, and currently playing through dragons dogma. I gotta say japanese devs are doing a great job at western style RPGs, im hoping with the success of those 2 games we start seeing more japanese devs try their hand at the genre.

The Japanese play on handhelds or phones; if you don't like either of those categories, then don't bother with Japanese games. Japan is all but dead in the console space, and was non-existent in the PC space.

I named a bunch of upcmoning JPN games that will be released on consoles, they are not dead, they just dont release those games in the West, same thing with the PC games, most of their PC games are MMO and VNS and are only playable in Japan or available in Japan.

3. This ties in with 1: The Japanese gaming scene is too different than the Western gaming scene. In Japan, playing videogames when you're older than 18 is a source of shame, and you'd rarely ever discuss it in public. As much as weaboos hate to admit it, Japanese games are designed for kids and teens. The Western audience is dominated by 20-30 year olds, and not all of these people are old Nintendo and Katamari Damacy fans who can ignore a games cutesy styling due to its great gameplay. There's a natural disconnect between the two markets

Ah...no, have you ever seen TGS? Have you ever been in Japan? there are many older people there that play video games. Also there are no age designation for Japanese games, its not its for kids or teens only, anyone can enjoy them, of course there would be games that only adults would enjoy such as mahjong, Slot Machine, and Simulation games such as Nobunaga no Yabou

Meh. They may have, but Japan still dominates in terms of fighters (no Western developer makes anything that comes close to Street Fighter, King of Fighters, or Guilty Gear), platformers (anyone who says Nintendo has been outdone here is a goddamn fool), and hack n' slash titles. They also make good racing games and great RPGs.

Have they fallen off a little bit? Sure. But it's not like the West is suddenly putting out super impressive shit that they never did before. The West always had good RPGs (though they have fallen off mad hard this gen), good racers, and good shooters. This is nothing new.

The Japanese play on handhelds or phones; if you don't like either of those categories, then don't bother with Japanese games. Japan is all but dead in the console space, and was non-existent in the PC space.

I named a bunch of upcoming JPN games that will be released on consoles, they are not dead, they just dont release those games in the West, same thing with the PC games, most of their PC games are MMO and VNS and are only playable in Japan or available in Japan.

3. This ties in with 1: The Japanese gaming scene is too different than the Western gaming scene. In Japan, playing videogames when you're older than 18 is a source of shame, and you'd rarely ever discuss it in public. As much as weaboos hate to admit it, Japanese games are designed for kids and teens. The Western audience is dominated by 20-30 year olds, and not all of these people are old Nintendo and Katamari Damacy fans who can ignore a games cutesy styling due to its great gameplay. There's a natural disconnect between the two markets

Ah...no, there are many older people there that play video games. Also there are no age designation for Japanese games, its not its for kids or teens only, anyone can enjoy them, of course there would be games that only adults would enjoy such as mahjong, Slot Machine, and Simulation games such as Nobunaga no Yabou

Which was the point of this thread and why your hole post list was nonsense and irrelevant.

Nintendo has been outdone in platformers two gens in a row, 3 including the last one if you throw in indie games.

Japan does not make realistic fighters, which sell more usually than the majority of fighter from japan. Fictional fightn games there are only two big franchises from there and 1 (well now 2) from over here.

No, they haven't. Super Mario Galaxy 2 is the best 3D platformer ever made. What on earth are you smoking? And there was nothing on the Playstation that was even close to Super Mario 64. The closest thing would be Crash from Naughty Dog, and the founders of that studio have straight-up admitted that Nintendo shat on them during that gen. The only time you have an argument is during the PS2-era, because Nintendo dropped the ball with Sunshine.

Realistic fighters aren't really fighting games. They're sports sims. The biggest fighting game franchises are Tekken and Street Fighter, and by such a margin that it's not even close. After that, you've got stuff like Soul Calibur, Guilty Gear, Blazblue, Virtua Fighter, King of Fighters, Marvel vs. Capcom, and Dead or Alive, all of which are big franchises, and sell well.

In comparison, the west has Mortal Kombat, Injustice, and Killer Instinct. It's not even close.

No, his whole thread is about Western games overtaking Japan, which is not happening since there are tons of Japanese games that caters to different gamers in Japan. But If he instead said Western games is overtaking Japanese games in the West, then that will be a different thing.

Pretty much,aside from a few niche genres and very few mainstream sucesses they are no longer even remotely close to the west anymore,they never were relevant in the PC market,now they´re slowly becoming irrelevant in the home console market and the only thing left now are the handhelds,mostly because western devs couldn´t give a shit about them.

Most japanese games have weird sexual connotations so most normal Americans don't buy stuff like that and Japan's market is smaller than ours.

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Why not? For a Japanese franchise, it has a HUGE following in the United States. It's no Final Fantasy but it's up there. Persona cosplayers are very prominent at any convention. The series is gaining steam as of late with the releases of Persona 4 Golden and Persona 4 Arena, and the announcement of Persona 5.

And I actually didn't know Silent Hill Homecoming was made by a western developer. My mistake. Add that to the list of western developed games I enjoyed then. So that explains the shift in game feel...(I still prefer Silent Hill 2 and 3 though, when Konami Computer Entertainment Tokyo worked on the games.)

Western game developers cater to Western tastes, because they get a bigger return on their investment. Japanese games largely appeal to Japanese gamers, with exception of the Japanese games that try to design their games with more universal appeal, which is smaller. Most games that come from Japan aren't exactly stellar sellers either, many have just a niche fanbase, and only a select are larger commercial success stories. At large though I'd say Japan does a better job exporting their games abroad than the other way around.

Anyhow, they're not all complete isolationists with respect to Western games, just check out user reviews of Western games on Amazon.JP and use the Chrome browsers translation features and you'll see plenty of positive reviews from those that do play Western games... still, Western games aren't exactly big sellers in Japan.

It will be interesting to see how a game like Titanfall is received in Japan, don't think it'll sell any X1s but it'll be on PC. I remember reading they were impressed by it at TGS.

Well..of course. Japan is just one country, it's impossible for them to compete with whole western world.