Is it too late to save the Wii U?

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Posted by samanthademeste (1237 posts) 1 year, 2 months ago
#51 Edited by getyeryayasout (8408 posts) -

The WiiU can still be a success, it's just too late for it to be a market leader.

#52 Posted by aroxx_ab (10710 posts) -

@RimacBugatti said:

The truth is they need another console.

Will not help them at all if they not got the games to support it

#53 Posted by Suppaman100 (4330 posts) -

@KBFloYd said:

mario kart and smash bros... so theres a chance....it wont beat the ps4 though.

playstation brand is what nintendo was in the 80s and 90s.

You mean early 90's. Second half of 90's was dominated by PS. N64 was the firs console that failed in sales for Ninty.

#54 Posted by 93BlackHawk93 (6139 posts) -

I'm afraid MK8 and SSB4 can't do nothing about it.

#55 Edited by LegatoSkyheart (26243 posts) -

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

mario kart and smash bros... so theres a chance....it wont beat the ps4 though.

playstation brand is what nintendo was in the 80s and 90s.

You mean early 90's. Second half of 90's was dominated by PS. N64 was the firs console that failed in sales for Ninty.

Yet I seem to see more people reminisce about the N64 more than the Playstation.

#56 Posted by Suppaman100 (4330 posts) -

@LegatoSkyheart said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

mario kart and smash bros... so theres a chance....it wont beat the ps4 though.

playstation brand is what nintendo was in the 80s and 90s.

You mean early 90's. Second half of 90's was dominated by PS. N64 was the firs console that failed in sales for Ninty.

Yet I seem to see more people reminisce about the N64 more than the Playstation.

Don't know, seems to be 50/50 and the ones that are reminiscing the N64 are mostly american.

As you can see here it did VERY poorly in europe and Japan.

Worldwide: 32.93 million

Japan: 5.54 million

North America: 20.63 million

Europe & Australia: 6.75 million

The sales were pathetic compared to the playstation with 100 mil sales.

N64 is considered to be a failure by Ninty.

#57 Posted by no-scope-AK47 (3050 posts) -

The wii u is dead can't be saved at this point what little 3rd party support it had is gone. Not even Nintendo games are doing their numbers. The biggest problem is Nintendo themselves instead of trying to bring 3rd parties to the wii u and upgrade the online gaming they are talking about mobile gaming.

#58 Posted by Lance2500 (680 posts) -

It will take one big effort if they do manage to save it.

#59 Posted by LegatoSkyheart (26243 posts) -

@Suppaman100 said:

Don't know, seems to be 50/50 and the ones that are reminiscing the N64 are mostly american.

As you can see here it did VERY poorly in europe and Japan.

Worldwide: 32.93 million

Japan: 5.54 million

North America: 20.63 million

Europe & Australia: 6.75 million

The sales were pathetic compared to the playstation with 100 mil sales.

N64 is considered to be a failure by Ninty.

Hey, don't get me wrong. I thought the N64 was a failure too, seeing how PS1 got the Better Castlevania, it got ALL the Megaman games, It got Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, and a bunch of other great games, while the N64 really only had Nintendo games (sadly the WiiU is probably going to turn out the same way.)

But the last time I said that in a thread I got freakin' slammed saying the N64 was a Beast of a Console. So I just naturally assumed it was a generally well loved console.

#60 Posted by Suppaman100 (4330 posts) -

@LegatoSkyheart said:

@Suppaman100 said:

Don't know, seems to be 50/50 and the ones that are reminiscing the N64 are mostly american.

As you can see here it did VERY poorly in europe and Japan.

Worldwide: 32.93 million

Japan: 5.54 million

North America: 20.63 million

Europe & Australia: 6.75 million

The sales were pathetic compared to the playstation with 100 mil sales.

N64 is considered to be a failure by Ninty.

Hey, don't get me wrong. I thought the N64 was a failure too, seeing how PS1 got the Better Castlevania, it got ALL the Megaman games, It got Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, and a bunch of other great games, while the N64 really only had Nintendo games (sadly the WiiU is probably going to turn out the same way.)

But the last time I said that in a thread I got freakin' slammed saying the N64 was a Beast of a Console. So I just naturally assumed it was a generally well loved console.

Well it makes sense that you got "slammed" on here since this board is mostly filled with americans.

#61 Posted by LegatoSkyheart (26243 posts) -

@Suppaman100 said:

Well it makes sense that you got "slammed" on here since this board is mostly filled with americans.

Quite, but I'm starting to see more and more European folk.

#62 Posted by RimacBugatti (1632 posts) -

@aroxx_ab:

But maybe if Nintendo built a superior console than the gamers would want to buy it which than the devs would support it. The problem is the WII was a new concept and people wanted to have one. The WII U is another WII. Basically the same thing. They didn't move forward so that's what happens. Nobody cares about the gamepad. It's kind of ridiculous really. That should have just been an addition to the WII. Even though it's a console for kids. They should still enhance the graphics as with the other consoles. PS4 is basically WII U on steroids. Better graphics and being able to use the PSVITA as a secondary play screen. Granted the combined is more than he WII U but it's a much more capable system. Kids are more advanced than they use to be and they like some of the same things that gamers like. Wake up Nintendo or fail!

#63 Posted by I-AM-N00B (470 posts) -

@emgesp said:

@osan0:

The Wii U needs a Halo/Uncharted type game that would get the interest of the more mature gamer. Mario and Zelda won't cut it anymore.

Yes I 100% agree! Mario and Zelda have been done to death now and I feel Nintendo would have to come up with some new ideas for Wii U to survive. Unfortunately I feel its probably too late not for Wii U, and I'd predict it'll be completely dead in 12-18 months time.

#64 Posted by jsmoke03 (13132 posts) -

it can still probably come close to gc numbers. its not outside the realm of possibilities, but it is a long shot. wii u just has too many problems as a console imo...lack of games, not many titles that appeal to non mario/zelda gamers,hardly any 3rd party support hdd is too small, gimmick controller, and i heard the mp gaming is crap

i hope that x is the begnning of a lot of rpgs on that system...i think it can be salvaged as a niche system, but they arent coming close to the ps4, xb1 or anywhere near 40 million units sold

#65 Posted by aroxx_ab (10710 posts) -

@RimacBugatti:

Wii sold most last gen, did we see GTA on it or any other big multiplat game? nope

Developers just see Nintendo like...dunno...kiddy platform/market their the userbase only buy mario games.

#66 Edited by osan0 (12983 posts) -

@emgesp: it certainly need something to appeal outside the mario/zelda/metroid audience but something like ucharted or halo also wont do it. people who want to play halo or uncharted buy a PS or xbox as required.

they need something to set the wiiu apart from the competition and that shows the gamepad being put to good use. cinematics and linear games with lots of shooting are well covered on other platforms.

#67 Posted by sHaDyCuBe321 (4245 posts) -

@emgesp said:

@osan0:

The Wii U needs a Halo/Uncharted type game that would get the interest of the more mature gamer. Mario and Zelda won't cut it anymore.

But Mario and Zelda games are better than Halo/Uncharted games. I'd rather it fail commercially than play games that I think are inferior.

#68 Edited by KBFloYd (14633 posts) -

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

mario kart and smash bros... so theres a chance....it wont beat the ps4 though.

playstation brand is what nintendo was in the 80s and 90s.

You mean early 90's. Second half of 90's was dominated by PS. N64 was the firs console that failed in sales for Ninty.

nintendo was #1 up to 1997..playstation didnt really make a name for itssef or establish until after the n64 flopped ...like 97..

so basically all the 90's

#69 Edited by Heil68 (46810 posts) -

#70 Posted by Suppaman100 (4330 posts) -

@KBFloYd said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

mario kart and smash bros... so theres a chance....it wont beat the ps4 though.

playstation brand is what nintendo was in the 80s and 90s.

You mean early 90's. Second half of 90's was dominated by PS. N64 was the firs console that failed in sales for Ninty.

nintendo was #1 up to 1997..playstation didnt really make a name for itssef or establish until after the n64 flopped ...like 97..

so basically all the 90's

Lol, yeah no. You seen the sales? It was only relevant in the US, everywhere else in the world almost nobody had a N64.

World > US. N64 is a flop and the beginning of Ninty's decline. N64 was a very subpar console and many times inferior compared to the playstation.

#71 Edited by KBFloYd (14633 posts) -

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

mario kart and smash bros... so theres a chance....it wont beat the ps4 though.

playstation brand is what nintendo was in the 80s and 90s.

You mean early 90's. Second half of 90's was dominated by PS. N64 was the firs console that failed in sales for Ninty.

nintendo was #1 up to 1997..playstation didnt really make a name for itssef or establish until after the n64 flopped ...like 97..

so basically all the 90's

Lol, yeah no. You seen the sales? It was only relevant in the US, everywhere else in the world almost nobody had a N64.

World > US. N64 is a flop and the beginning of Ninty's decline. N64 was a very subpar console and many times inferior compared to the playstation.

thats what im saying...playstation didnt become a household brand until AFTER the n64 flopped....n64 released in 96....by 97 i think people made the switch to playstation.

nintendo was still the biggest name in gamiing for most of the 90's...actually sega was probably bigger than playstaion at the point as well.

#72 Edited by nini200 (10405 posts) -

I WOULD have said Smash Bros could but seeing as how it is being LIMITED due to the 3DS version (That should NOT have been considered) it isn't looking like it will.

Mario Kart sells alot but I doubt it's going to save the console by itself.

If Smash Bros was a WiiU Exclusive like it should have been then maybe but since it isn't, they shot themselves in the foot.

#73 Posted by AzatiS (8005 posts) -

@nini200 said:

I WOULD have said Smash Bros could but seeing as how it is being LIMITED due to the 3DS version (That should NOT have been considered) it isn't looking like it will.

Mario Kart sells alot but I doubt it's going to save the console by itself.

If Smash Bros was a WiiU Exclusive like it should have been then maybe but since it isn't, they shot themselves in the foot.

If mario couldnt , which was a really good game , it wont happen with games like Kart let alone Smash.

The only thing can really boost Wii U now is Zelda. Other than that .. lets hope their competitors ( PS4/X1 ) wont release any behemoths before Zelda.

#74 Edited by tubbyc (3791 posts) -

The whole concept of the Wii U was a mistake.

#75 Posted by 93BlackHawk93 (6139 posts) -

@tubbyc said:

The whole concept of the Wii U was a mistake.

It wasn't a mistake, the Gamepad has a lot of potential imo but the marketing and name it's terrible.

#76 Posted by CountBleck12 (4144 posts) -

As much as I want to say that Super Smash Bros and Mario Kart can possibly "save" the Wii U, it probably won't no matter how much the games sell. I just get the feeling that it won't be enough...

#77 Posted by tubbyc (3791 posts) -
@93BlackHawk93 said:

@tubbyc said:

The whole concept of the Wii U was a mistake.

It wasn't a mistake, the Gamepad has a lot of potential imo but the marketing and name it's terrible.

When Iwata has to admit that the Wii U is not in good shape, and Nintendo have been suffering operating losses recently for the first time because of it, it does seem like it to me.

If they had taken a different approach for this gen, and maybe gone to many developers long before the console was created to see what they wanted, prepared earlier for HD development (which they admitted they underestimated how challenging it would be), focus more on creating new IPs, and preparing online functions, possibly they could have had a truly successful console and made a lot of money with it. That's speculation though, we'll never know.

I agree that 'Wii U' was not the best name they could have gone with, but I think some are over-estimating how much better marketing and a better name would have helped. They've had ads explaining that it's a whole new console and that hasn't caused a turn-around.

Since you mention that the gamepad has a lot of potential, do you have some ideas?

#78 Posted by DocSanchez (2256 posts) -

The Wii U was damned a long time before it came out. Nintendo's long demise in the eyes of the hardcore gamer and the third party abandonment spelled doom for it long before they put it on the market. It could've been identical to PS4 - it still would've failed.

Wii went after the family market. They boasted about it's sales with OAPs and so called "soccer moms" (whatever they are) and to do this they released a cheapo console with a very weak lineup. There were casual games in abundance and nearly all of the games most likely to intrigue the floating hardcore gamers - people who will buy any brand as long as it's good - were found on other consoles instead. The third party that were released sold like dogshit even though the consoles sales were so high. But Nintendo didn't care, they were short term thinking and rolling in it from the success of that year's rubiks cube. Well now they are sleeping in the bed they made themselves. It doesnt help that there has been a weak lineup so far and the console is once again under powered and cheap but it's all on Nintendo.

Get rid of the touchscreen, change the name, bring out games, it's all window dressing. If Mario 3D couldn't save it, Mario Kart wont. The problems are one of credibility, and it goes very deep.

#79 Edited by CrashNBurn281 (435 posts) -

Nintendo needs to get their head out of their ass.

Name will only take you so far if you keep on releasing flop after flop.

This company has had a history of short changing developers so that their first party titles would be best on their platforms. While that may have worked when they were the only act in town, times have changed.

They have also had a history of resisting to modernize their hardware. PS1 rofl stomped the N64 when it came to CGI story telling. The PS1 also played CDs...whoops. Once the format war was completed between Bluray and HDDVD, everyone knew that Bluray would be the next gen standard, well everyone except Nintendo it seems. Serious WTH.

It's not like they had to meet the competition on even ground in the hardware department, but when your system can not even utilize a lot of the next gen titles because it just isn't possible, there is a problem. Doubling the last gens performance abilities shouldn't have even been a thought. Anyone in their right mind would have known that the power scaling of the next gen systems would be higher than double.

Then they go and screw up on the name so horribly. A lot of people do not even realize Nintendo has released a new console. One mistake after another they have set themselves up to be dead last.

At this point they are stuck in a lot of the mess they have created for themselves. The best the can hope for is to get developer relations off to a good standing to get titles on their system. Hell, with the hardware like it is, they need to focus on funding unique titles that will leverage the hardware.

Nintendo makes great games, but so do third party developers and that is exactly what this system needs to move units.

All is not lost yet, but they had better get someone who knows what they are doing to get them in the right direction.

#80 Edited by Suppaman100 (4330 posts) -

@KBFloYd said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@KBFloYd said:

mario kart and smash bros... so theres a chance....it wont beat the ps4 though.

playstation brand is what nintendo was in the 80s and 90s.

You mean early 90's. Second half of 90's was dominated by PS. N64 was the firs console that failed in sales for Ninty.

nintendo was #1 up to 1997..playstation didnt really make a name for itssef or establish until after the n64 flopped ...like 97..

so basically all the 90's

Lol, yeah no. You seen the sales? It was only relevant in the US, everywhere else in the world almost nobody had a N64.

World > US. N64 is a flop and the beginning of Ninty's decline. N64 was a very subpar console and many times inferior compared to the playstation.

thats what im saying...playstation didnt become a household brand until AFTER the n64 flopped....n64 released in 96....by 97 i think people made the switch to playstation.

nintendo was still the biggest name in gamiing for most of the 90's...actually sega was probably bigger than playstaion at the point as well.

Playstation came out in 95 in the US and Europe and it dominated from the start. So Ninty dominated in the first half of the 90's and PS in the second half.

#81 Edited by MirkoS77 (8188 posts) -

@crashnburn281: which won't happen. Iwata won't resign. He's taken steps to ensure his position. He's packed the board with men very loyal and favorable to him, he's spent billions to buy up shares so investors have less power, and he's demoted or fired those that oppose him. This is what worries me....he seems to be a great politician, but he is an utterly incompetent businessman. I think he'll sooner drive Nintendo into the ground (which he seems to be doing very well) before he'd leave.

#82 Posted by DocSanchez (2256 posts) -

Another thing is that third party wont come any time soon because the Nintendo fans are amongst the most unsupportive and ungrateful there is.

I've just been on a few threads where they've been bitching about Ubisoft because they delayed watchdogs, going far and beyond reasonable criticism and acting like they are have betrayed them time and time again. This, the one developer who gave the wii u a big chance only to see their games sell very poorly. Apparently they dared to delay rayman. Because Nintendo never delays games.

The third party will continue to dwindle and again, it's Nintendo and their supporters fault. But you have Mario tiddlywinks on the horizon so don't worry.

#83 Edited by ActicEdge (24492 posts) -

@DocSanchez said:

Another thing is that third party wont come any time soon because the Nintendo fans are amongst the most unsupportive and ungrateful there is.

I've just been on a few threads where they've been bitching about Ubisoft because they delayed watchdogs, going far and beyond reasonable criticism and acting like they are have betrayed them time and time again. This, the one developer who gave the wii u a big chance only to see their games sell very poorly. Apparently they dared to delay rayman. Because Nintendo never delays games.

The third party will continue to dwindle and again, it's Nintendo and their supporters fault. But you have Mario tiddlywinks on the horizon so don't worry.

I dunno about you but as someone who games a lot on Nintendo consoles (I still get other systems though), the idea that I should buy games that aren't appealing to me over Nintendo's output is silly. This isn't a charity. Do you really think what you're arguing is reasonable? Not even mentioning that the Wii sold like 500 million pieces of third party software and the DS handily more than that.

On topic though, the WiiU is far beyond saving. Its gonna fail no matter what Nintendo does because they created a thoroughly unappealing product. The systems specs blow my mind, can't grasp how they released such a weak system. No even in the sense that I care about graphics but rather their failure to see that multiplatform development is so big now a days and they need hardware to allow for it.

#84 Posted by Ballroompirate (23692 posts) -

Nintendo needs to get their shyt together, they need a price drop for the Wii-U for starters since no way should tech that's a gen old should be that expensive. Having barely nothing coming out also hurts them, don't get me wrong X, Bayonetta 2 and new SSB game are gonna be amazing but outside of those *cricket sounds* they got nothing.

I love Nintendo but they need to get their shyt together.

#85 Edited by DocSanchez (2256 posts) -

@ActicEdge: I never suggested you should be forced to buy games unappealing to ou at all. I said you can't blame third party developers for not supporting Nintendo in light of the sales they receive, if the entire third party is unappealing to you, that betrays a certain fan boyish mindset of its own.

But you can't blame Ubisoft for pulling out which is what a lot of fanboys are currently doing despite their support way past others. Slagging them off is completely immature.

#86 Posted by jg4xchamp (50032 posts) -

Define save

Actually have the console bounce back and be competitive with the other 2? Yes, that ship has sailed

Bounce back to have a better library of exclusives? No.

Bounce back to make the system profitable and an actual asset to Nintendo? Eh, maybe. Depends on how much more cost effective the system gets and if it can get stronger software sales.

#87 Posted by Jakandsigz (6341 posts) -

@KBFloYd said:

mario kart and smash bros... so theres a chance....it wont beat the ps4 though.

playstation brand is what nintendo was in the 80s and 90s.

Nintendo did not have a dominating brand in the 90's. It's debatable that the 80's was even legit. They did some EA moves then. it's like the two companies switched places after 2000.

Only thing is EA does not make console. Although if they did it now it would probably kill them.

#88 Edited by ActicEdge (24492 posts) -

@DocSanchez said:

@ActicEdge: I never suggested you should be forced to buy games unappealing to ou at all. I said you can't blame third party developers for not supporting Nintendo in light of the sales they receive, if the entire third party is unappealing to you, that betrays a certain fan boyish mindset of its own.

But you can't blame Ubisoft for pulling out which is what a lot of fanboys are currently doing despite their support way past others. Slagging them off is completely immature.

Yes you can. The hell? Maybe people whether they be Nintendo fans or brocentric male power fantasy fans don't like to admit it but Nintendo systems aren't the place to sell your AAA TPS, FPS story driven cinematic etc etc games. Shit like Zombie U and Mass Effect ports (despite whether people like it or not) isn't what you go and make your attempts at sales for unless you have a specific plan with your marketing technique. Those games don't historically sell well on Nintendo hardware.

But lots of other genres like action adventures, platformers, puzzle games are historically dominant on Nintendo hardware and that's the type of IPs that should be coming to Nintendo systems and when they do, they sell well. When I look at the WiiU and even the 3DS (this is better thanks to japan) its barren even of genres that actually have sales potential. You rarely hear about success stories of things outside of brosplosion X because that's not what SW wants nor is it the market that brings in 5 million+ sales. Like I said, the Wii sold well over 500 million pieces of third party software. Its not for me to sit here and think that its Nintendo's fault or the audiences fault that EA and company are too dense to bring the proper content to Nintendo platforms and instead would rather extremely over populate Sony and Microsoft platforms.

Like I said, I always get a Sony platform but the types of games I look for are not the same as when I pick up a Nintendo system and the overall software library blatantly reflects that. So when I see Nintendo not getting support (not so much with WiiU because I think they just fucked this up beyond belief) I am left to just kind of shake my head. Shit like Watch Dogs is destined to bomb on the WiiU. If you look at Rayman it easily sold best on the extremely small WiiU userbase.

#89 Posted by MirkoS77 (8188 posts) -

@ActicEdge said:

@DocSanchez said:

@ActicEdge: I never suggested you should be forced to buy games unappealing to ou at all. I said you can't blame third party developers for not supporting Nintendo in light of the sales they receive, if the entire third party is unappealing to you, that betrays a certain fan boyish mindset of its own.

But you can't blame Ubisoft for pulling out which is what a lot of fanboys are currently doing despite their support way past others. Slagging them off is completely immature.

Yes you can. The hell? Maybe people whether they be Nintendo fans or brocentric male power fantasy fans don't like to admit it but Nintendo systems aren't the place to sell your AAA TPS, FPS story driven cinematic etc etc games. Shit like Zombie U and Mass Effect ports (despite whether people like it or not) isn't what you go and make your attempts at sales for unless you have a specific plan with your marketing technique. Those games don't historically sell well on Nintendo hardware.

But lots of other genres like action adventures, platformers, puzzle games are historically dominant on Nintendo hardware and that's the type of IPs that should be coming to Nintendo systems and when they do, they sell well. When I look at the WiiU and even the 3DS (this is better thanks to japan) its barren even of genres that actually have sales potential. You rarely hear about success stories of things outside of brosplosion X because that's not what SW wants nor is it the market that brings in 5 million+ sales. Like I said, the Wii sold well over 500 million pieces of third party software. Its not for me to sit here and think that its Nintendo's fault or the audiences fault that EA and company are too dense to bring the proper content to Nintendo platforms and instead would rather extremely over populate Sony and Microsoft platforms.

Like I said, I always get a Sony platform but the types of games I look for are not the same as when I pick up a Nintendo system and the overall software library blatantly reflects that. So when I see Nintendo not getting support (not so much with WiiU because I think they just fucked this up beyond belief) I am left to just kind of shake my head. Shit like Watch Dogs is destined to bomb on the WiiU. If you look at Rayman it easily sold best on the extremely small WiiU userbase.

Speaking aside from the "dudebro" audience argument (which I find weak)......

The failure of 3rd party support failing on Nintendo's consoles is no others fault BUT Nintendo. They have continually, through the gens, ignored, dismissed, and have failed to be pro-active to them. They have not made their platforms conducive to them to aid in development. They've taken their usual arrogant stance of, "when the consumer sees value in our systems because of our games, then the 3rd parties will as well and will then come to us". That's an exceptionally arrogant and apathetic stance to take.

Read these:

In the December 2000 issue of Next Gen Magazine, approximately 7 months after GDC, Hiroshi Imanishi said they are not approaching third parties to make games for GameCube. Instead, they expect third parties to come to themonce the GameCube starts growing their install base.

“Nintendo’s position is that we are going to sell our hardware with our own software titles, and if consumers buy a number of Gamecubes, then licensees would become interested in making games for Nintendo Gamecube. That’s the general idea in Nintendo’s business. So we are not actually approaching them [third parties] and asking them to make software for Nintendo.Already there are a number of requests [from publishers] who would like to make the software for Gamecube, so probably in September we will start explaining the technology and delivering the development kits to them. Once again, it’s their decision. If they would like to make Gamecube software, that’s fine, but we will never demand them to make games for Gamecube,” said Imanishi.

From Iwata:

“The GameCube has been well received by the development community, but we don’t believe in overwhelming third party support.However, we’re certainly talking with more developers about the possibility of working together. Frequently, developers use our platforms solely for their own self-interests, so it’s hard to form management relationships. Rather than business to business relationships, we’ve chosen more personal collaborations such as creator to creator. Capcom’s decision to release Biohazard on the GameCube is a direct result of that,” said Iwata.

And these are the polite ones. Yamauchi was flat-out rude in making his contempt towards 3rd parties known, unfortunately I can't find the link for it right now. And those are from Nintendo themselves. This most recently from a Bethesda dev, speaking on developing for the Wii U:

“The time for convincing publishers and developers to support Wii U has long past. The box is out,” Hines explained on Bonus Round. “You have to do what Sony and Microsoft have been doing with us for a long time. And it’s not that every time we met with them we got all the answers we wanted. But they involved us very early on, and talking to folks like Bethesda and Gearbox, they say ‘Here’s what we’re doing, here’s what we’re planning, here’s how we think it’s going to work’ to hear what we thought, from our tech guys, and from an experience standpoint. You have to spend an unbelievable amount of time upfront doing that. If you’re just going sort off deciding ‘we’re going to make a box and this is how it works and you should make games for it.’ Well, no. No is my answer, I’m going to focus on other ones that better support what it is we’re trying to do. So you’ve gotta spend more time trying to reach out to those folks before you even make the box, when you’re still designing and thinking about how it’s going to work.”

http://www.nintendo-insider.com/2013/09/02/bethesda-nintendo-didnt-engage-third-party-enough-before-wii-u-reveal/

I mean, you have to ask yourself......when both sides are saying the same thing, who is at fault? Considering what Iwata and Imanishi say above (And Yamauchi before), I don't think it's hard to understand why there's virtually no support on their machines at all. They simply don't care enough about it. This philosophy of "If it happens, great. If not, no worries" is really helping them now. And yet their arrogance continues.

On top of all this, Nintendo, throughout the years, has even worse let this image of their systems being really only a 1st party box grow in gamers' minds. Add to this the fact of Nintendo continually putting out pathetically outdated hardware that leads to lackluster (yet always overpriced) ports, and their incompetent business decisions that keep a good userbase from being established, and can you blame 3rd parties?? When people think of a Nintendo console, what immediately comes to mind are their exclusives and that's it. I think it's 100% on Nintendo here. Their apathy and general disdain towards them, exacerbated by their other moronic choices, have helped breed and led up to their current situation they find themselves in today.

They are at fault. Just another product of their continual arrogance and elitism.

#90 Edited by ActicEdge (24492 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

Speaking aside from the "dudebro" audience argument (which I find weak)......

The failure of 3rd party support failing on Nintendo's consoles is no others fault BUT Nintendo. They have continually, through the gens, ignored, dismissed, and have failed to be pro-active to them. They have not made their platforms conducive to them to aid in development. They've taken their usual arrogant stance of, "when the consumer sees value in our systems because of our games, then the 3rd parties will as well and will then come to us". That's an exceptionally arrogant and apathetic stance to take.

Read these:

In the December 2000 issue of Next Gen Magazine, approximately 7 months after GDC, Hiroshi Imanishi said they are not approaching third parties to make games for GameCube. Instead, they expect third parties to come to themonce the GameCube starts growing their install base.

“Nintendo’s position is that we are going to sell our hardware with our own software titles, and if consumers buy a number of Gamecubes, then licensees would become interested in making games for Nintendo Gamecube. That’s the general idea in Nintendo’s business. So we are not actually approaching them [third parties] and asking them to make software for Nintendo.Already there are a number of requests [from publishers] who would like to make the software for Gamecube, so probably in September we will start explaining the technology and delivering the development kits to them. Once again, it’s their decision. If they would like to make Gamecube software, that’s fine, but we will never demand them to make games for Gamecube,” said Imanishi.

From Iwata:

“The GameCube has been well received by the development community, but we don’t believe in overwhelming third party support.However, we’re certainly talking with more developers about the possibility of working together. Frequently, developers use our platforms solely for their own self-interests, so it’s hard to form management relationships. Rather than business to business relationships, we’ve chosen more personal collaborations such as creator to creator. Capcom’s decision to release Biohazard on the GameCube is a direct result of that,” said Iwata.

And these are the polite ones. Yamauchi was flat-out rude in making his contempt towards 3rd parties known, unfortunately I can't find the link for it right now. And those are from Nintendo themselves. This most recently from a Bethesda dev, speaking on developing for the Wii U:

“The time for convincing publishers and developers to support Wii U has long past. The box is out,” Hines explained on Bonus Round. “You have to do what Sony and Microsoft have been doing with us for a long time. And it’s not that every time we met with them we got all the answers we wanted. But they involved us very early on, and talking to folks like Bethesda and Gearbox, they say ‘Here’s what we’re doing, here’s what we’re planning, here’s how we think it’s going to work’ to hear what we thought, from our tech guys, and from an experience standpoint. You have to spend an unbelievable amount of time upfront doing that. If you’re just going sort off deciding ‘we’re going to make a box and this is how it works and you should make games for it.’ Well, no. No is my answer, I’m going to focus on other ones that better support what it is we’re trying to do. So you’ve gotta spend more time trying to reach out to those folks before you even make the box, when you’re still designing and thinking about how it’s going to work.”

http://www.nintendo-insider.com/2013/09/02/bethesda-nintendo-didnt-engage-third-party-enough-before-wii-u-reveal/

I mean, you have to ask yourself......when both sides are saying the same thing, who is at fault? Considering what Iwata and Imanishi say above (And Yamauchi before), I don't think it's hard to understand why there's virtually no support on their machines at all. They simply don't care enough about it. This philosophy of "If it happens, great. If not, no worries" is really helping them now. And yet their arrogance continues.

On top of all this, Nintendo, throughout the years, has even worse let this image of their systems being really only a 1st party box grow in gamers' minds. Add to this the fact of Nintendo continually putting out pathetically outdated hardware that leads to lackluster (yet always overpriced) ports, and their incompetent business decisions that keep a good userbase from being established, and can you blame 3rd parties?? When people think of a Nintendo console, what immediately comes to mind are their exclusives and that's it. I think it's 100% on Nintendo here. Their apathy and general disdain towards them, exacerbated by their other moronic choices, have helped breed and led up to their current situation they find themselves in today.

They are at fault. Just another product of their continual arrogance and elitism.

You're addressing something entirely different than what I'm talking about. Nintendo is shit at fostering 3rd party relationships and they should try harder but the actual sale of third party games on nintendo systems over the last generation WERE good. The numbers speak for themselves, I don't really see the need to argue about he said she said. I'm not saying that Nintendo should just continue to be arrogant and ignore the entire market (I mention the astromical fuck up that the WiiU is do I not?), I'm saying that you can't sit here and blame Nintendo and its fanbase for not buying your games when they have had respectable software sales for third parties on their previous 2 systems. The poster I was referring to was blaming Nintendo's fanbase and nintedo for the shit support from third party. I'm saying its neither of those groups fault that they suck ass at reading the Nintendo market. You market the right genre and make a good game, the possibility for success has always been present and I don't get why third parties still haven't embraced this philosophy over like 15 or so years. (again WiiU excluded because its just such a failure hardware wise that software is doomed to fail on it).

No where am I saying Nintendo's approach to building hardware and attracting dudebro AAA games (that's what the biggest sellers on the PS3/360 are, let's just be honest) is good (its terrible and they should fix it), I'm saying that they are never historically good in that market so it doesn't fucking matter what Gearbox or Bethesda thinks because they aren't gonna see big sales there any way. Fundamentally different things we're talking about. If my other post didn't convey my point, this one hopefully will.

Edit: And for the record, your last paragraph reads like an angry forum gamer (which admittedly most of SW is, not like I'm not pissed at Nintendo either) which is fine but the mind share that Nintendo has to the general public doesn't really have shit to do with late ports, 1st party games or hardware power. Again, the Wii had a tie in ratio that was basically equivalent to the PS3 and it also sold a shit ton of third party software. What you think is mind share is just w/e speculation.

#91 Posted by MirkoS77 (8188 posts) -

@ActicEdge said:

@MirkoS77 said:

Speaking aside from the "dudebro" audience argument (which I find weak)......

The failure of 3rd party support failing on Nintendo's consoles is no others fault BUT Nintendo. They have continually, through the gens, ignored, dismissed, and have failed to be pro-active to them. They have not made their platforms conducive to them to aid in development. They've taken their usual arrogant stance of, "when the consumer sees value in our systems because of our games, then the 3rd parties will as well and will then come to us". That's an exceptionally arrogant and apathetic stance to take.

Read these:

In the December 2000 issue of Next Gen Magazine, approximately 7 months after GDC, Hiroshi Imanishi said they are not approaching third parties to make games for GameCube. Instead, they expect third parties to come to themonce the GameCube starts growing their install base.

“Nintendo’s position is that we are going to sell our hardware with our own software titles, and if consumers buy a number of Gamecubes, then licensees would become interested in making games for Nintendo Gamecube. That’s the general idea in Nintendo’s business. So we are not actually approaching them [third parties] and asking them to make software for Nintendo.Already there are a number of requests [from publishers] who would like to make the software for Gamecube, so probably in September we will start explaining the technology and delivering the development kits to them. Once again, it’s their decision. If they would like to make Gamecube software, that’s fine, but we will never demand them to make games for Gamecube,” said Imanishi.

From Iwata:

“The GameCube has been well received by the development community, but we don’t believe in overwhelming third party support.However, we’re certainly talking with more developers about the possibility of working together. Frequently, developers use our platforms solely for their own self-interests, so it’s hard to form management relationships. Rather than business to business relationships, we’ve chosen more personal collaborations such as creator to creator. Capcom’s decision to release Biohazard on the GameCube is a direct result of that,” said Iwata.

And these are the polite ones. Yamauchi was flat-out rude in making his contempt towards 3rd parties known, unfortunately I can't find the link for it right now. And those are from Nintendo themselves. This most recently from a Bethesda dev, speaking on developing for the Wii U:

“The time for convincing publishers and developers to support Wii U has long past. The box is out,” Hines explained on Bonus Round. “You have to do what Sony and Microsoft have been doing with us for a long time. And it’s not that every time we met with them we got all the answers we wanted. But they involved us very early on, and talking to folks like Bethesda and Gearbox, they say ‘Here’s what we’re doing, here’s what we’re planning, here’s how we think it’s going to work’ to hear what we thought, from our tech guys, and from an experience standpoint. You have to spend an unbelievable amount of time upfront doing that. If you’re just going sort off deciding ‘we’re going to make a box and this is how it works and you should make games for it.’ Well, no. No is my answer, I’m going to focus on other ones that better support what it is we’re trying to do. So you’ve gotta spend more time trying to reach out to those folks before you even make the box, when you’re still designing and thinking about how it’s going to work.”

http://www.nintendo-insider.com/2013/09/02/bethesda-nintendo-didnt-engage-third-party-enough-before-wii-u-reveal/

I mean, you have to ask yourself......when both sides are saying the same thing, who is at fault? Considering what Iwata and Imanishi say above (And Yamauchi before), I don't think it's hard to understand why there's virtually no support on their machines at all. They simply don't care enough about it. This philosophy of "If it happens, great. If not, no worries" is really helping them now. And yet their arrogance continues.

On top of all this, Nintendo, throughout the years, has even worse let this image of their systems being really only a 1st party box grow in gamers' minds. Add to this the fact of Nintendo continually putting out pathetically outdated hardware that leads to lackluster (yet always overpriced) ports, and their incompetent business decisions that keep a good userbase from being established, and can you blame 3rd parties?? When people think of a Nintendo console, what immediately comes to mind are their exclusives and that's it. I think it's 100% on Nintendo here. Their apathy and general disdain towards them, exacerbated by their other moronic choices, have helped breed and led up to their current situation they find themselves in today.

They are at fault. Just another product of their continual arrogance and elitism.

You're addressing something entirely different than what I'm talking about. Nintendo is shit at fostering 3rd party relationships and they should try harder but the actual sale of third party games on nintendo systems over the last generation WERE good. The numbers speak for themselves, I don't really see the need to argue about he said she said. I'm not saying that Nintendo should just continue to be arrogant and ignore the entire market (I mention the astromical fuck up that the WiiU is do I not?), I'm saying that you can't sit here and blame Nintendo and its fanbase for not buying your games when they have had respectable software sales for third parties on their previous 2 systems. The poster I was referring to was blaming Nintendo's fanbase and nintedo for the shit support from third party. I'm saying its neither of those groups fault that they suck ass at reading the Nintendo market. You market the right genre and make a good game, the possibility for success has always been present and I don't get why third parties still haven't embraced this philosophy over like 15 or so years. (again WiiU excluded because its just such a failure hardware wise that software is doomed to fail on it).

No where am I saying Nintendo's approach to building hardware and attracting dudebro AAA games (that's what the biggest sellers on the PS3/360 are, let's just be honest) is good (its terrible and they should fix it), I'm saying that they are never historically good in that market so it doesn't fucking matter what Gearbox or Bethesda thinks because they aren't gonna see big sales there any way. Fundamentally different things we're talking about. If my other post didn't convey my point, this one hopefully will.

Edit: And for the record, your last paragraph reads like an angry forum gamer (which admittedly most of SW is, not like I'm not pissed at Nintendo either) which is fine but the mind share that Nintendo has to the general public doesn't really have shit to do with late ports, 1st party games or hardware power. Again, the Wii had a tie in ratio that was basically equivalent to the PS3 and it also sold a shit ton of third party software. What you think is mind share is just w/e speculation.

Well thanks for clarifying. I come off as angry about Nintendo's situation because I am. I've been frustrated at them for some time.

#92 Posted by ActicEdge (24492 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

Well thanks for clarifying. I come off as angry about Nintendo's situation because I am. I've been frustrated at them for some time.

If Nintendo didn't make such good software I would abandon their ass. They are a terrible platform holder and I say this as someone who adored his Wii. With WiiU, you aren't even getting the cool quirky third party games like on the Wii. If I didn't have the world's biggest hard on for Mario and co games (also monster hunter), I wouldn't even be considering a WiiU.

#93 Edited by MirkoS77 (8188 posts) -

@ActicEdge said:

@MirkoS77 said:

Well thanks for clarifying. I come off as angry about Nintendo's situation because I am. I've been frustrated at them for some time.

If Nintendo didn't make such good software I would abandon their ass. They are a terrible platform holder and I say this as someone who adored his Wii. With WiiU, you aren't even getting the cool quirky third party games like on the Wii. If I didn't have the world's biggest hard on for Mario and co games (also monster hunter), I wouldn't even be considering a WiiU.

Yea, I hear that. I'm a fan of Nintendo. Wouldn't say hardcore, but enough that I'll eventually get a Wii U when it's near the end of its life (which sadly doesn't seem too far off even after only barely a few months past a year on the market). I'd just like a Metroid. Just Metroid, even on the 3DS, and I'd be happy. I'm really bored to death of Mario and Zelda. Tbh, the only game that even halfway interests me on the U currently is Pikmin 3. There's a few digital offerings I have my eyes on (Ace Attorney) but I won't even consider them until Nintendo implements accounts.

Nintendo has turned into a company that gives me 0 incentive to buy their offerings until they're at the end of their lives. I'd like to support them outright, and used to, but I don't see the point anymore. I really hope that they change somehow. It's painful to watch a company that was once so on top of things worsen.

#94 Posted by no-scope-AK47 (3050 posts) -

The funny thing is nintendo makes some good games but they are too few and the console is too weak to consider buying the wii u. You spend 100 bucks extra and you get the most powerful console ie the ps4.

If you want nintendo games get a 3ds or a 2ds.

#95 Edited by silversix_ (15888 posts) -

Its been too late since three months after WiiU's launch. At this point the subject shouldn't even be discussed about.

#96 Posted by MirkoS77 (8188 posts) -

@no-scope-AK47 said:

The funny thing is nintendo makes some good games but they are too few and the console is too weak to consider buying the wii u. You spend 100 bucks extra and you get the most powerful console ie the ps4.

If you want nintendo games get a 3ds or a 2ds.

Nintendo makes incredible games when they put their mind to it. They have some of the most talented, creative, and passionate minds in this industry. And that's why it's so frustrating because the way I'm seeing it, much of this talent is being stifled by corporate bungling and extreme conservatism. If Nintendo would truly let loose and abandon this seemingly petrifying fear that seems to permeate through every choice they make nowadays, I don't think that they'd just compete, I think they'd dominate.

#97 Edited by ActicEdge (24492 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

@ActicEdge said:

@MirkoS77 said:

Well thanks for clarifying. I come off as angry about Nintendo's situation because I am. I've been frustrated at them for some time.

If Nintendo didn't make such good software I would abandon their ass. They are a terrible platform holder and I say this as someone who adored his Wii. With WiiU, you aren't even getting the cool quirky third party games like on the Wii. If I didn't have the world's biggest hard on for Mario and co games (also monster hunter), I wouldn't even be considering a WiiU.

Yea, I hear that. I'm a fan of Nintendo. Wouldn't say hardcore, but enough that I'll eventually get a Wii U when it's near the end of its life (which sadly doesn't seem too far off even after only barely a few months past a year on the market). I'd just like a Metroid. Just Metroid, even on the 3DS, and I'd be happy. I'm really bored to death of Mario and Zelda. Tbh, the only game that even halfway interests me on the U currently is Pikmin 3. There's a few digital offerings I have my eyes on (Ace Attorney) but I won't even consider them until Nintendo implements accounts.

Nintendo has turned into a company that gives me 0 incentive to buy their offerings until they're at the end of their lives. I'd like to support them outright, and used to, but I don't see the point anymore. I really hope that they change somehow. It's painful to watch a company that was once so on top of things worsen.

Well to me its the simple stuff they screw up that makes me scratch my head. Like the lack of hardrive in the original Wii (which would have netted them so many indie games) or the lack of account system. Such simple things they refuse to do. I don't even care that much about the weaker hardware (though the WiiU was astronomically weaker than even I expected) but its all the other stuff about them that gets to me. I will get a WiiU when I can get it for like $200 or so. Nintendo just is stubborn. Simply asking about the level of hardware devs want would do so much for them. They should really try the gamecube approach again. With an account system and their extended catalog of accessible games I feel like they would actually do pretty good.Their software now a days is way more mass appealing than the cube days too.

#98 Edited by Maddie_Larkin (6767 posts) -

Wii U had a pretty bad name, horrible ads and was a fairly big cluster**** when it got released.

But what I think was the most damaging aspect for it, was how weak it was percived to be, and it certainly ain't no powerhouse, it came out a year ahead of the new PS and XBOX; and this ironically hurt it for alot of core gamers, WHO all expected the NeXT gen consoles to rival high end pc's (which they are not even close to).

After the launch of both those consoles, and we saw how Little the leap from last gen to this was, the Wii U did recive a bump in sales. So I suspect it is salvagable. they just really have to make a push for it at nintendo. And accept that wewill see Little 3rd party support for it.

I am just a gamer, I have Little knowlage of how the industry Works outside of the general logic.

But If the Wii U focuses on Nintendo 1st and 2nd party and aim to bring over more indie games, I would suspect that it is quite doable to have it suceed (not much unlike the vita even though ps+ did a huge good for that one).

I would think that that would make it suceed. If anyone playied Rust on the pc, you could see how that would Work pretty well on the Wii U, with all the management and crafting, simply moved to the lower screen as an example.

Edit: Ofcourse Nintendos attitude needs a hand here aswell, inside the industry they have been notoriously hard to Work with, supplying untranslated instructions how to code for your hardware, and Little technical support for devs. If this have not changed, it needs to, Nintendo is not in the posision where all devs comes crawling to them because they are the best chance of sucess, they are one of 4 very plausible Places now.

#99 Posted by Coolyfett (5088 posts) -

@I_can_haz said:

What do you think OP?

Coolyfett LOVES it...Great entertainment. Its good to see Nintendo at their rightful place. The Bottom.

#100 Posted by KBFloYd (14633 posts) -

@Coolyfett said:

@I_can_haz said:

What do you think OP?

Coolyfett LOVES it...Great entertainment. Its good to see Nintendo at their rightful place. The Bottom.

even lower than the xbox?

btw welcome back.