Is Halo 4 the greatest love story in gaming this gen? *spoilers*

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#201 Posted by FrozenLiquid (12788 posts) -

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]It's Gears of War 2 all over again. Oh boy.skrat_01

wait people thought there was an emotional part in that game?

Yep.

Players and Epic.

I can't remember people thinking what happened in Gears 2 was successful. In any case, Halo 4 is far from Gears of War 2's attempt at gravitas.
#202 Posted by skrat_01 (33767 posts) -
Halo has great storytelling, great dialogue and characters. You just have some other reason for not thinking it. Like a petty resentment of the series or you don't like why so many others like it.

As far as quality goes, Halo has always been right up there.

lightleggy
It really doesn't in any sense of what you're saying (though I can't speak for ODST or Halo 4). I'd honestly enjoy it if you argued otherwise.

Yeah, this. I knew it could have said it better lol.

The thing is, To the Moon just reminds me a lot of Voices of a Distant Star, 5cm Per Second, and The Children Who Chase Lost Voices. those Makoto Shinkai movies are in their own way fascinating, but it's like junior high league of stories and storytelling.

I swear, if To the Moon is written and designed by an Asian dude, I'mma throw a -.... :| .

I totally have psychic powers.

FrozenLiquid
Still have to play To the Moon, constantly hearing praise about it, still to this day. I've been put off by enough horrible pretentious, angsty anime - as much as I've seen some really excellent stuff, and the same goes for games (though I never cared for Final Fantasy or have tried to touted Persona games), but I'd recommend Catherine. It falls into a few trappings, but it's honestly one of the best games I've played this year. It's Qubert with a theme of infidelity and some excellent writing and really memorable characters; and better yet it's a game that I've seen surprise people who aren't familiar with games, to people who know them back to front. Pretty good stuff. Also, Deadly Premonition. On a mechanical level there's so much wrong with it, and the climax is something else entirely - but that doesn't matter. It's that strong blend of a Japanese interpretation of North America and Twin Peaks, with their own sensibilities coursing right through it. It's great.
#203 Posted by skrat_01 (33767 posts) -
I can't remember people thinking what happened in Gears 2 was successful. In any case, Halo 4 is far from Gears of War 2's attempt at gravitas. FrozenLiquid
It was intended to be successful, I remember the hoopla about Epic trying to create a more 'emotionally engaging narrative', and that being a unique spin on the campaign; and I remember a good amount of threads on GS and a few on other boards. It's a chuckle - I still absolutely adore the 'Dom and his wife' photo keepsake that came with the special edition. Seriously, they thought it was going to be that 'emotionally engaging' they made a physcial keepsake. Now that is beautiful. But I'm glad to hear it about Halo 4, really glad; just the hyperbole thrown around is always funny. I'm just waiting for the 'love story between Alyx and Gordon is the greatest story in gaming this gen' threads when Half Life 3 news comes around. Hooo boy.
#204 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -
[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]I can't remember people thinking what happened in Gears 2 was successful. In any case, Halo 4 is far from Gears of War 2's attempt at gravitas. skrat_01
It was intended to be successful, I remember the hoopla about Epic trying to create a more 'emotionally engaging narrative', and that being a unique spin on the campaign; and I remember a good amount of threads on GS and a few on other boards. It's a chuckle - I still absolutely adore the 'Dom and his wife' photo keepsake that came with the special edition. Seriously, they thought it was going to be that 'emotionally engaging' they made a physcial keepsake. Now that is beautiful. But I'm glad to hear it about Halo 4, really glad; just the hyperbole thrown around is always funny. I'm just waiting for the 'love story between Alyx and Gordon is the greatest story in gaming this gen' threads when Half Life 3 news comes around. Hooo boy.

All dem fools who don't understand good writing. The love story in Halo 4 was physically painful and more than a little weird. At least Bungie knew enough to make it there, but subtle and "I've always wanted to touch you." Ick.
#205 Posted by dreman999 (10747 posts) -

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]It's Gears of War 2 all over again. Oh boy.skrat_01

wait people thought there was an emotional part in that game?

Yep.

Players and Epic.

It was sad but not that sad. Now Dom's death...That was sad.
#206 Posted by dreman999 (10747 posts) -
[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]I can't remember people thinking what happened in Gears 2 was successful. In any case, Halo 4 is far from Gears of War 2's attempt at gravitas. DarkLink77
It was intended to be successful, I remember the hoopla about Epic trying to create a more 'emotionally engaging narrative', and that being a unique spin on the campaign; and I remember a good amount of threads on GS and a few on other boards. It's a chuckle - I still absolutely adore the 'Dom and his wife' photo keepsake that came with the special edition. Seriously, they thought it was going to be that 'emotionally engaging' they made a physcial keepsake. Now that is beautiful. But I'm glad to hear it about Halo 4, really glad; just the hyperbole thrown around is always funny. I'm just waiting for the 'love story between Alyx and Gordon is the greatest story in gaming this gen' threads when Half Life 3 news comes around. Hooo boy.

All dem fools who don't understand good writing. The love story in Halo 4 was physically painful and more than a little weird. At least Bungie knew enough to make it there, but subtle and "I've always wanted to touch you." Ick.

Ok, really I don't see any romantic love between MC and Cortana. At most it's a sibling bond of love. And don't try to say bungie did it right. The massively dropped the ball on character growth in Halo.
#207 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -
[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="skrat_01"]It was intended to be successful, I remember the hoopla about Epic trying to create a more 'emotionally engaging narrative', and that being a unique spin on the campaign; and I remember a good amount of threads on GS and a few on other boards. It's a chuckle - I still absolutely adore the 'Dom and his wife' photo keepsake that came with the special edition. Seriously, they thought it was going to be that 'emotionally engaging' they made a physcial keepsake. Now that is beautiful. But I'm glad to hear it about Halo 4, really glad; just the hyperbole thrown around is always funny. I'm just waiting for the 'love story between Alyx and Gordon is the greatest story in gaming this gen' threads when Half Life 3 news comes around. Hooo boy.

All dem fools who don't understand good writing. The love story in Halo 4 was physically painful and more than a little weird. At least Bungie knew enough to make it there, but subtle and "I've always wanted to touch you." Ick.

Ok, really I don't see any romantic love between MC and Cortana. At most it's a sibling bond of love. And don't try to say bungie did it right. The massively dropped the ball on character growth in Halo.

They did their relationship right. And they didn't do the character growth thing because they weren't interested in the Chief as a person. They were interested in him as a symbol.
#208 Posted by dreman999 (10747 posts) -
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] All dem fools who don't understand good writing. The love story in Halo 4 was physically painful and more than a little weird. At least Bungie knew enough to make it there, but subtle and "I've always wanted to touch you." Ick.

Ok, really I don't see any romantic love between MC and Cortana. At most it's a sibling bond of love. And don't try to say bungie did it right. The massively dropped the ball on character growth in Halo.

They did their relationship right. And they didn't do the character growth thing because they weren't interested in the Chief as a person. They were interested in him as a symbol.

The did the relation ship right...In HALO 4. And what symbol did they make MC, he was not dynamic in any way, Just a big human size tank of a man. I can at least say they did a great job in Halo ce with the story but everything after was just not there.
#209 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -
[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"] Ok, really I don't see any romantic love between MC and Cortana. At most it's a sibling bond of love. And don't try to say bungie did it right. The massively dropped the ball on character growth in Halo.

They did their relationship right. And they didn't do the character growth thing because they weren't interested in the Chief as a person. They were interested in him as a symbol.

The did the relation ship right...In HALO 4. And what symbol did they make MC, he was not dynamic in any way, Just a big human size tank of a man. I can at least say they did a great job in Halo ce with the story but everything after was just not there.

Halo 3 did it better, honestly. Halo 4 is so corny. Neither of them actually evolves as characters. Cortana loses her mind and the Chief is worried about her. Same as in Halo 3, but in Halo 3 I didn't have to deal with space magic and Cortana's need for physical interaction (which was dumb). Bungie portrayed him as a mythic hero. He wasn't dynamic because he wasn't supposed to be a dynamic character. He was supposed to inspire awe in his allies, inspire the player into believing that the Chief could single-handedly win the war, and fear in his enemies.
#210 Posted by FireSpirit117 (1981 posts) -

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] All dem fools who don't understand good writing. The love story in Halo 4 was physically painful and more than a little weird. At least Bungie knew enough to make it there, but subtle and "I've always wanted to touch you." Ick.DarkLink77
Ok, really I don't see any romantic love between MC and Cortana. At most it's a sibling bond of love. And don't try to say bungie did it right. The massively dropped the ball on character growth in Halo.

They did their relationship right. And they didn't do the character growth thing because they weren't interested in the Chief as a person. They were interested in him as a symbol.

As sym..really? They kinda dropped the ball on that, too. Hell, Noble 6 was more a symbol than Chief (one that actually worked).

Now it just sounds like you're looking for every petty excuse to elevate Bungie over 343.

#211 Posted by dreman999 (10747 posts) -

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] They did their relationship right. And they didn't do the character growth thing because they weren't interested in the Chief as a person. They were interested in him as a symbol.DarkLink77
The did the relation ship right...In HALO 4. And what symbol did they make MC, he was not dynamic in any way, Just a big human size tank of a man. I can at least say they did a great job in Halo ce with the story but everything after was just not there.

Halo 3 did it better, honestly. Halo 4 is so corny. Neither of them actually evolves as characters. Cortana loses her mind and the Chief is worried about her. Same as in Halo 3, but in Halo 3 I didn't have to deal with space magic and Cortana's need for physical interaction (which was dumb). Bungie portrayed him as a mythic hero. He wasn't dynamic because he wasn't supposed to be a dynamic character. He was supposed to inspire awe in his allies, inspire the player into believing that the Chief could single-handedly win the war, and fear in his enemies.

How was Halo4 corny. How else is someone going to act when they slowly watch someone they care for die slowly. And clearly Halo 4 had more character growth then the other 4 halo game. We see MC in his most vulnerable, witnessing a slowly die Cortana an not being able to stop it. Sorry, but that tops Halo 3'S character growth that just has a vague Cortana pop up now and again only to find her and see her act that same way as before like nothing happened.

Also, you still notgetting it Mythic heros are dynamic. The have character. Bungie did a great job of dealing with th epic battles but a horrible jobat making an epic character.

#212 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"] Ok, really I don't see any romantic love between MC and Cortana. At most it's a sibling bond of love. And don't try to say bungie did it right. The massively dropped the ball on character growth in Halo.FireSpirit117

They did their relationship right. And they didn't do the character growth thing because they weren't interested in the Chief as a person. They were interested in him as a symbol.

As sym..really? They kinda dropped the ball on that, too. Hell, Noble 6 was more a symbol than Chief (one that actually worked).

Now it just sounds like you're looking for every petty excuse to elevate Bungie over 343.

And you're making yourself look like a tool, brah. You should know that when I say something, I'm serious.

Not really. I'll admit what 343 did right, but the story wasn't it.

And yeah, as a symbol. Um... duh. That's kind of the whole point. Were you just not paying attention when every character in the story treats him with nothingless than outright awe?

#213 Posted by dreman999 (10747 posts) -

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] They did their relationship right. And they didn't do the character growth thing because they weren't interested in the Chief as a person. They were interested in him as a symbol.DarkLink77

As sym..really? They kinda dropped the ball on that, too. Hell, Noble 6 was more a symbol than Chief (one that actually worked).

Now it just sounds like you're looking for every petty excuse to elevate Bungie over 343.

And you're making yourself look like a tool, brah. You should know that when I say something, I'm serious.

Not really. I'll admit what 343 did right, but the story wasn't it.

And yeah, as a symbol. Um... duh. That's kind of the whole point. Were you just not paying attention when every character in the story treats him with nothingless than outright awe?

It does not matter how other treat him. What matter is how he acts. What makes a character epic is not just ability but how they act. Sorry but it just feels that you can switch MC with anyone else with the same abilities and you'll get the same results.
#214 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"] The did the relation ship right...In HALO 4. And what symbol did they make MC, he was not dynamic in any way, Just a big human size tank of a man. I can at least say they did a great job in Halo ce with the story but everything after was just not there.dreman999

Halo 3 did it better, honestly. Halo 4 is so corny. Neither of them actually evolves as characters. Cortana loses her mind and the Chief is worried about her. Same as in Halo 3, but in Halo 3 I didn't have to deal with space magic and Cortana's need for physical interaction (which was dumb). Bungie portrayed him as a mythic hero. He wasn't dynamic because he wasn't supposed to be a dynamic character. He was supposed to inspire awe in his allies, inspire the player into believing that the Chief could single-handedly win the war, and fear in his enemies.

How was Halo4 corny. How else is someone going to act when they slowly watch someone they care for die slowly. And clearly Halo 4 had more character growth then the other 4 halo game. We see MC in his most vulnerable, witnessing a slowly die Cortana an not being able to stop it. Sorry, but that tops Halo 3'S character growth that just has a vague Cortana pop up now and again only to find her and see her act that same way as before like nothing happened.

Also, you still notgetting it Mythic heros are dynamic. The have character. Bungie did a great job of dealing with th epic battles but a horrible jobat making an epic character.

How was in not corny? We'll forget the the parts where a lot of the emotional heartstring-pulls are just outright wrong (as in cannot happen), but there only difference is that the Chief speaks more in 4 (less boday language characterization), and Cortana is actually full-on Rampant. She's not in Halo 3. She's just being controlled by the Gravemind.
#215 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]As sym..really? They kinda dropped the ball on that, too. Hell, Noble 6 was more a symbol than Chief (one that actually worked).

Now it just sounds like you're looking for every petty excuse to elevate Bungie over 343.

dreman999

And you're making yourself look like a tool, brah. You should know that when I say something, I'm serious.

Not really. I'll admit what 343 did right, but the story wasn't it.

And yeah, as a symbol. Um... duh. That's kind of the whole point. Were you just not paying attention when every character in the story treats him with nothingless than outright awe?

It does not matter how other treat him. What matter is how he acts. What makes a character epic is not just ability but how they act. Sorry but it just feels that you can switch MC with anyone else with the same abilities and you'll get the same results.

It doesn't matter how others treat him. :| Okay, I'm done discussing this with you.
#216 Posted by dreman999 (10747 posts) -
[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

And you're making yourself look like a tool, brah. You should know that when I say something, I'm serious.

Not really. I'll admit what 343 did right, but the story wasn't it.

And yeah, as a symbol. Um... duh. That's kind of the whole point. Were you just not paying attention when every character in the story treats him with nothingless than outright awe?

DarkLink77
It does not matter how other treat him. What matter is how he acts. What makes a character epic is not just ability but how they act. Sorry but it just feels that you can switch MC with anyone else with the same abilities and you'll get the same results.

It doesn't matter how others treat him. :| Okay, I'm done discussing this with you.

But it does. What make an epic character is how he acts not how other treat him. A character does no become a symbolic because people solute him.
#217 Posted by dreman999 (10747 posts) -
[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Halo 3 did it better, honestly. Halo 4 is so corny. Neither of them actually evolves as characters. Cortana loses her mind and the Chief is worried about her. Same as in Halo 3, but in Halo 3 I didn't have to deal with space magic and Cortana's need for physical interaction (which was dumb). Bungie portrayed him as a mythic hero. He wasn't dynamic because he wasn't supposed to be a dynamic character. He was supposed to inspire awe in his allies, inspire the player into believing that the Chief could single-handedly win the war, and fear in his enemies. DarkLink77

How was Halo4 corny. How else is someone going to act when they slowly watch someone they care for die slowly. And clearly Halo 4 had more character growth then the other 4 halo game. We see MC in his most vulnerable, witnessing a slowly die Cortana an not being able to stop it. Sorry, but that tops Halo 3'S character growth that just has a vague Cortana pop up now and again only to find her and see her act that same way as before like nothing happened.

Also, you still notgetting it Mythic heros are dynamic. The have character. Bungie did a great job of dealing with th epic battles but a horrible jobat making an epic character.

How was in not corny? We'll forget the the parts where a lot of the emotional heartstring-pulls are just outright wrong (as in cannot happen), but there only difference is that the Chief speaks more in 4 (less boday language characterization), and Cortana is actually full-on Rampant. She's not in Halo 3. She's just being controlled by the Gravemind.

That does not make it corny. MC clearly is a stiff military person. In Halo 4 it made clear. And Cortana is going mad while dying. How else is she going to act? And about Halo 3...That is still not character growth.
#218 Posted by FireSpirit117 (1981 posts) -

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] They did their relationship right. And they didn't do the character growth thing because they weren't interested in the Chief as a person. They were interested in him as a symbol.DarkLink77

As sym..really? They kinda dropped the ball on that, too. Hell, Noble 6 was more a symbol than Chief (one that actually worked).

Now it just sounds like you're looking for every petty excuse to elevate Bungie over 343.

And you're making yourself look like a tool, brah. You should know that when I say something, I'm serious.

Not really. I'll admit what 343 did right, but the story wasn't it.

And yeah, as a symbol. Um... duh. That's kind of the whole point. Were you just not paying attention when every character in the story treats him with nothingless than outright awe?

Gordon Freeman gets that same treatment from his peers, but unless there's enough "character" in the character I'm controlling to make me, as a random player, believe it all, I just don't buy it. Granted Chief still had more character than Gordan ever did, but that still wasn't saying much.

And tool, huh? Getting a little personal here, don't you think?

#219 Posted by mems_1224 (46157 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]As sym..really? They kinda dropped the ball on that, too. Hell, Noble 6 was more a symbol than Chief (one that actually worked).

Now it just sounds like you're looking for every petty excuse to elevate Bungie over 343.

FireSpirit117

And you're making yourself look like a tool, brah. You should know that when I say something, I'm serious.

Not really. I'll admit what 343 did right, but the story wasn't it.

And yeah, as a symbol. Um... duh. That's kind of the whole point. Were you just not paying attention when every character in the story treats him with nothingless than outright awe?

Gordon Freeman gets that same treatment from his peers, but unless there's enough "character" in the character I'm controlling to make me, as a random player, believe it all, I just don't buy it. Granted Chief still had more character than Gordan ever did, but that's still not saying much.

And tool, huh? Getting a little personal here, don't you think?

freeman isn't a character. he's an empty shell
#220 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"] How was Halo4 corny. How else is someone going to act when they slowly watch someone they care for die slowly. And clearly Halo 4 had more character growth then the other 4 halo game. We see MC in his most vulnerable, witnessing a slowly die Cortana an not being able to stop it. Sorry, but that tops Halo 3'S character growth that just has a vague Cortana pop up now and again only to find her and see her act that same way as before like nothing happened.

Also, you still notgetting it Mythic heros are dynamic. The have character. Bungie did a great job of dealing with th epic battles but a horrible jobat making an epic character.

dreman999
How was in not corny? We'll forget the the parts where a lot of the emotional heartstring-pulls are just outright wrong (as in cannot happen), but there only difference is that the Chief speaks more in 4 (less boday language characterization), and Cortana is actually full-on Rampant. She's not in Halo 3. She's just being controlled by the Gravemind.

That does not make it corny. MC clearly is a stiff military person. In Halo 4 it made clear. And Cortana is going mad while dying. How else is she going to act? And about Halo 3...That is still not character growth.

She's not. But she doesn't develop as a character while going mad. She's still Cortana. Chief is still Chief. Being sad because your friend is dying is not character development. Never said it was, so no idea where you're getting that from.
#221 Posted by FireSpirit117 (1981 posts) -

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

And you're making yourself look like a tool, brah. You should know that when I say something, I'm serious.

Not really. I'll admit what 343 did right, but the story wasn't it.

And yeah, as a symbol. Um... duh. That's kind of the whole point. Were you just not paying attention when every character in the story treats him with nothingless than outright awe?

mems_1224

Gordon Freeman gets that same treatment from his peers, but unless there's enough "character" in the character I'm controlling to make me, as a random player, believe it all, I just don't buy it. Granted Chief still had more character than Gordan ever did, but that's still not saying much.

And tool, huh? Getting a little personal here, don't you think?

freeman isn't a character. he's an empty shell

My point.

#222 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]As sym..really? They kinda dropped the ball on that, too. Hell, Noble 6 was more a symbol than Chief (one that actually worked).

Now it just sounds like you're looking for every petty excuse to elevate Bungie over 343.

FireSpirit117

And you're making yourself look like a tool, brah. You should know that when I say something, I'm serious.

Not really. I'll admit what 343 did right, but the story wasn't it.

And yeah, as a symbol. Um... duh. That's kind of the whole point. Were you just not paying attention when every character in the story treats him with nothingless than outright awe?

Gordon Freeman gets that same treatment from his peers, but unless there's enough "character" in the character I'm controlling to make me, as a random player, believe it all, I just don't buy it. Granted Chief still had more character than Gordan ever did, but that still wasn't saying much.

And tool, huh? Getting a little personal here, don't you think?

You don't buy that the Chief is a symbol? How is this hard to grasp? That's exactly what he is. That's how he has always been portrayed. It's not like he didn't do anything to earn it. I mean FFS, all he does is overcome the impossible. Maybe. But then again, maybe you ought to not say stupid sh!t like what you said.
#223 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -
[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"] It does not matter how other treat him. What matter is how he acts. What makes a character epic is not just ability but how they act. Sorry but it just feels that you can switch MC with anyone else with the same abilities and you'll get the same results.

It doesn't matter how others treat him. :| Okay, I'm done discussing this with you.

But it does. What make an epic character is how he acts not how other treat him. A character does no become a symbolic because people solute him.

Most epic characters do not change, especially in mythology. Achilles does not change. He's the same in the beginning of Illiad as he is at the beginning. No, characters become symbolic because they jump out of ships with bombs so they can blow up capital ships single-handedly.
#224 Posted by jg4xchamp (46974 posts) -
[QUOTE="lightleggy"]Halo has great storytelling, great dialogue and characters. You just have some other reason for not thinking it. Like a petty resentment of the series or you don't like why so many others like it.

As far as quality goes, Halo has always been right up there.

skrat_01
It really doesn't in any sense of what you're saying (though I can't speak for ODST or Halo 4). I'd honestly enjoy it if you argued otherwise.

Yeah, this. I knew it could have said it better lol.

The thing is, To the Moon just reminds me a lot of Voices of a Distant Star, 5cm Per Second, and The Children Who Chase Lost Voices. those Makoto Shinkai movies are in their own way fascinating, but it's like junior high league of stories and storytelling.

I swear, if To the Moon is written and designed by an Asian dude, I'mma throw a -.... :| .

I totally have psychic powers.

FrozenLiquid
Still have to play To the Moon, constantly hearing praise about it, still to this day. I've been put off by enough horrible pretentious, angsty anime - as much as I've seen some really excellent stuff, and the same goes for games (though I never cared for Final Fantasy or have tried to touted Persona games), but I'd recommend Catherine. It falls into a few trappings, but it's honestly one of the best games I've played this year. It's Qubert with a theme of infidelity and some excellent writing and really memorable characters; and better yet it's a game that I've seen surprise people who aren't familiar with games, to people who know them back to front. Pretty good stuff. Also, Deadly Premonition. On a mechanical level there's so much wrong with it, and the climax is something else entirely - but that doesn't matter. It's that strong blend of a Japanese interpretation of North America and Twin Peaks, with their own sensibilities coursing right through it. It's great.

I love me some Catherine.
#225 Posted by jg4xchamp (46974 posts) -

And what symbol did they make MCdreman999
Essentially he was the UNSC's Superman.

Link might not give enough crap to Bungie for sucking(because they suck at a high level), but I understand what he means by how Bungie presented him. He was never presented as some complex character, and I don't think Bungie ever made that his thing. He was gordon freeman like, but more so as this like last remaining Superhero.

The way Bungie presented the series it was like Chief was the last spartan, that last weapon the UNSC pulls out when all else has failed. The UNSC tends to be in awe of his presence, and injured soliders act like a savior has just come to save them. Hell given all the biblical gutter trash bungie throws in their game(gravemind), how if I'm not mistaken only Chief gets called Reclaimer, and how the Covenant dubs him The Demon yeah I would say he was more a symbolic hero in this franchise under Bungies reign.

Halo 4s plot just comes off weird. This guy with the way the Halo series goes should have become this all mighty legend among the UNSC(especially spartans), but you get the impression that no one gives a sh1t that Chief is suddenly still alive after 4 years. I mean you have one character out right being a douche to him. Which just comes off contradicting Chief's place and what chief would logically represent in this universe after a 4 year hiatus.

Admittedly it could be proper retconning if 343 is gong in another direction, and I'm not against that. For instance I don't want them to do a Superman film by the book, but at the same time I don't want them to miss the f*cking point of Superman in the first place. And in that regard DarkLink has a point here.

Under Bungie: Masterchief might as well be Superman
Under 343: He's a person, who just happened to have gone through a lot of sh1t.

#226 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -

[QUOTE="dreman999"] And what symbol did they make MCjg4xchamp

Essentially he was the UNSC's Superman.

Link might not give enough crap to Bungie for sucking(because they suck at a high level), but I understand what he means by how Bungie presented him. He was never presented as some complex character, and I don't think Bungie ever made that his thing. He was gordon freeman like, but more so as this like last remaining Superhero.

The way Bungie presented the series it was like Chief was the last spartan, that last weapon the UNSC pulls out when all else has failed. The UNSC tends to be in awe of his presence, and injured soliders act like a savior has just come to save them. Hell given all the biblical gutter trash bungie throws in their game(bungie), how if I'm not mistaken only Chief gets called Reclaimer, and how the Covenant dubs him The Demon yeah I would say he was more a symbolic hero in this franchise under Bungies reign.

Halo 4s plot just comes off weird. This guy with the way the Halo series goes should have become this all mighty legend among the UNSC(especially spartans), but you get the impression that no one gives a sh1t that Chief is suddenly still alive after 4 years. I mean you have one character out right being a douche to him. Which just comes off contradicting Chief's place and what chief would logically represent in this universe after a 4 year hiatus.

Admittedly it could be proper retconning if 343 is gong in another direction, and I'm not against that. For instance I don't want them to do a Superman film by the book, but at the same time I don't want them to miss the f*cking point of Superman in the first place. And in that regard DarkLink has a point here.

Under Bungie: Masterchief might as well be Superman
Under 343: He's a person, who just happened to have gone through a lot of sh1t.

Thank you.

Finally, someone who was paying attention.

#227 Posted by FrozenLiquid (12788 posts) -
[QUOTE="skrat_01"] Still have to play To the Moon, constantly hearing praise about it, still to this day. I've been put off by enough horrible pretentious, angsty anime - as much as I've seen some really excellent stuff, and the same goes for games (though I never cared for Final Fantasy or have tried to touted Persona games), but I'd recommend Catherine. It falls into a few trappings, but it's honestly one of the best games I've played this year. It's Qubert with a theme of infidelity and some excellent writing and really memorable characters; and better yet it's a game that I've seen surprise people who aren't familiar with games, to people who know them back to front. Pretty good stuff. Also, Deadly Premonition. On a mechanical level there's so much wrong with it, and the climax is something else entirely - but that doesn't matter. It's that strong blend of a Japanese interpretation of North America and Twin Peaks, with their own sensibilities coursing right through it. It's great.

So just played the trial version of To the Moon..... and oh boy is the dialogue terrible. It feels like it's written by either a high school wannabe or a college freshman trying to get a sitcom going. I feel like the entire game simply aims to be emotionally manipulative, but if there's any merit, it's playing through the actual premise, which is quite similar to Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, though a bit more simple and saccharine. Yeah, I do want to play Catherine, it looks absolutely legit from everything I've seen. Deadly Premonition too. What did you think of Thirty Flights of Loving?
#228 Posted by FrozenLiquid (12788 posts) -
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Thank you. Finally, someone who payed attention.

Of course champ paid attention. He acts like the abused ex-wife of Bungie, and has the moral prerogative to d1ck them at every turn. tumblr_lt02u5YNYE1r4vc5no1_250.gif
#229 Posted by FireSpirit117 (1981 posts) -

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

And you're making yourself look like a tool, brah. You should know that when I say something, I'm serious.

Not really. I'll admit what 343 did right, but the story wasn't it.

And yeah, as a symbol. Um... duh. That's kind of the whole point. Were you just not paying attention when every character in the story treats him with nothingless than outright awe?

DarkLink77

Gordon Freeman gets that same treatment from his peers, but unless there's enough "character" in the character I'm controlling to make me, as a random player, believe it all, I just don't buy it. Granted Chief still had more character than Gordan ever did, but that still wasn't saying much.

And tool, huh? Getting a little personal here, don't you think?

You don't buy that the Chief is a symbol? How is this hard to grasp? That's exactly what he is. That's how he has always been portrayed. It's not like he didn't do anything to earn it. I mean FFS, all he does is overcome the impossible. Maybe. But then again, maybe you ought to not say stupid sh!t like what you said.

Of course he is to me, but that's mostly because I have background knowledge. He's a symbol to everyone in that universe, sure, but to the average player who just walks into the game without any background knowledge of MC, he's just some unstoppable killing machine who's fun to play as. The End. Nothing else worth idolizing beyond that point.

Yeah I was passionate when I said that and I'm sorry if I offended you. Still, alot of what you say in regards to Halo 4 DOES usually equate to "Bungie is everything that is right" while "343 is everything that is wrong", almost to the point where it's too cartoonish to sound reasonable. "Reasonable" is the key word here, like you don't like the guy I chat with on XBL. I wouldn't mind it if it were just on SW and the GUFU boards you know for fun, but even on a PM I can't get a straight opinion fromyou, even after I gave you mine. How do you think that makes me feel, dude? :?

#230 Posted by FrozenLiquid (12788 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Of course he is to me, but that's mostly because I have background knowledge. He's a symbol to everyone in that universe, sure, but to the average player who just walks into the game without any background knowledge of MC, he's just some unstoppable killing machine who's fun to play as. The End. Nothing else worth idolizing beyond that point.FireSpirit117

Yeah I was kpassionate when I said that and I'm sorry if I offended you. Still, alot of what you say in regards to Halo 4 DOES usually equates to "Bungie is everything that is right" while "343 is everything that is wrong", almost to the point where it's too cartoonish to sound reasonable. I wouldn't mind it if it were just on SW and the GUFU boards you know for fun, but even on a PM I can't get a straight opinion you, even after I gave you mine. How do you think that makes me feel, dude?

In terms of 'symbols' - or I suppose the correct term is 'archetype' - you don't learn their character. They just happen to be. With archetypes, there's no reason to know any background knowledge of them, especially hero characters. In that regard, Master Chief is the symbol for going against all odds and saving the day.

What actually undermined Bungie's original intentions was the expansion of the universe. The more detailed and intricate you get, the less archetypal everything is. Halo was the typical humans vs aliens thing. The EU stuff was not. Bungie tried to keep it simple in their Halo games without too much collateral damage to the EU. 343i have totally abandoned the concept of epic archetypal storytelling and have gone for.... a more soap opera approach?

Anyway that's the difference between the two portrayals.

#231 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]Gordon Freeman gets that same treatment from his peers, but unless there's enough "character" in the character I'm controlling to make me, as a random player, believe it all, I just don't buy it. Granted Chief still had more character than Gordan ever did, but that still wasn't saying much.

And tool, huh? Getting a little personal here, don't you think?

FireSpirit117

You don't buy that the Chief is a symbol? How is this hard to grasp? That's exactly what he is. That's how he has always been portrayed. It's not like he didn't do anything to earn it. I mean FFS, all he does is overcome the impossible. Maybe. But then again, maybe you ought to not say stupid sh!t like what you said.

Of course he is to me, but that's mostly because I have background knowledge. He's a symbol to everyone in that universe, sure, but to the average player who just walks into the game without any background knowledge of MC, he's just some unstoppable killing machine who's fun to play as. The End. Nothing else worth idolizing beyond that point.

Yeah I was kpassionate when I said that and I'm sorry if I offended you. Still, alot of what you say in regards to Halo 4 DOES usually equates to "Bungie is everything that is right" while "343 is everything that is wrong", almost to the point where it's too cartoonish to sound reasonable. I wouldn't mind it if it were just on SW and the GUFU boards you know for fun, but even on a PM I can't get a straight opinion you, even after I gave you mine. How do you think that makes me feel, dude?

I don't think that's true given how iconic the Chief has become in gaming (and popular) culture.

I mean, just look at the ads for Halo 3. The tagline for the game was "Believe." There's a reason that was the tagline. There's a reason they did the diorama, and the one with the old man narrating his experience at that battle. I mean, take Starry Night. Johnson's are all, "Any sign of the Chief?"

And that other marine's all, "Negative, Sarge. I think we lost him."

Then the Chief's all, "Not yet."

Then he jumps into a squad of 15 Brutes (I counted), one of whom is a Chieftan, and at least two Wraiths, with nothing but an assault rifle and a pistol. And as a fan, there is absolutely no doubt in your mind who wins that.

I mean, there's a reason Bungie ended Halo 3 (non-Legendary ending) with the camera zooming in on the "117" someone carved into that monument.

It's because he's a symbol. It's because, as a player, you believe (and the entire cast believes) that he can do the impossible and win the war by himself. He's basically the personifcation of hope in Bungie's trilogy. He's the guy everyone "Believe"s in. If that's not a character as a symbol, I don't know what is.

As for the PM thing, I offered to tell you my unbiased, DarkLink-persona-off opinion and you turned me down. I don't see what you're upset about.

#232 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Of course he is to me, but that's mostly because I have background knowledge. He's a symbol to everyone in that universe, sure, but to the average player who just walks into the game without any background knowledge of MC, he's just some unstoppable killing machine who's fun to play as. The End. Nothing else worth idolizing beyond that point.FrozenLiquid

Yeah I was kpassionate when I said that and I'm sorry if I offended you. Still, alot of what you say in regards to Halo 4 DOES usually equates to "Bungie is everything that is right" while "343 is everything that is wrong", almost to the point where it's too cartoonish to sound reasonable. I wouldn't mind it if it were just on SW and the GUFU boards you know for fun, but even on a PM I can't get a straight opinion you, even after I gave you mine. How do you think that makes me feel, dude?

In terms of 'symbols' - or I suppose the correct term is 'archetype' - you don't learn their character. They just happen to be. With archetypes, there's no reason to know any background knowledge of them, especially hero characters. In that regard, Master Chief is the symbol for going against all odds and saving the day.

What actually undermined Bungie's original intentions was the expansion of the universe. The more detailed and intricate you get, the less archetypal everything is. Halo was the typical humans vs aliens thing. The EU stuff was not. Bungie tried to keep it simple in their Halo games without too much collateral damage to the EU. 343i have totally abandoned the concept of epic archetypal storytelling and have gone for.... a more soap opera approach?

Anyway that's the difference between the two portrayals.

Truth. And me, I preferred the epic portrayal. Because I don't think I can name another game that does it (the symbol hero, epic sh!t) that well. Maybe Mass Effect with Shepard. But it's not on the same level. He needs help. The Chief does not.
#233 Posted by Master_ShakeXXX (13361 posts) -

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] They did their relationship right. And they didn't do the character growth thing because they weren't interested in the Chief as a person. They were interested in him as a symbol.DarkLink77

As sym..really? They kinda dropped the ball on that, too. Hell, Noble 6 was more a symbol than Chief (one that actually worked).

Now it just sounds like you're looking for every petty excuse to elevate Bungie over 343.

And you're making yourself look like a tool, brah. You should know that when I say something, I'm serious.

Not really. I'll admit what 343 did right, but the story wasn't it.

And yeah, as a symbol. Um... duh. That's kind of the whole point. Were you just not paying attention when every character in the story treats him with nothingless than outright awe?

I agree, much like how Nathan Hale from Resistance is a symbol for hope and perseverance, and how Joseph Cappeli is a symbol for redemption. Resistance is so deep if you think about it. Deeper than Halo.

#234 Posted by PannicAtack (20922 posts) -

[QUOTE="skrat_01"] Still have to play To the Moon, constantly hearing praise about it, still to this day. I've been put off by enough horrible pretentious, angsty anime - as much as I've seen some really excellent stuff, and the same goes for games (though I never cared for Final Fantasy or have tried to touted Persona games), but I'd recommend Catherine. It falls into a few trappings, but it's honestly one of the best games I've played this year. It's Qubert with a theme of infidelity and some excellent writing and really memorable characters; and better yet it's a game that I've seen surprise people who aren't familiar with games, to people who know them back to front. Pretty good stuff. Also, Deadly Premonition. On a mechanical level there's so much wrong with it, and the climax is something else entirely - but that doesn't matter. It's that strong blend of a Japanese interpretation of North America and Twin Peaks, with their own sensibilities coursing right through it. It's great.FrozenLiquid
So just played the trial version of To the Moon..... and oh boy is the dialogue terrible. It feels like it's written by either a high school wannabe or a college freshman trying to get a sitcom going. I feel like the entire game simply aims to be emotionally manipulative, but if there's any merit, it's playing through the actual premise, which is quite similar to Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, though a bit more simple and saccharine.

Well, I take it you didn't like Neil.

Well, that's a bummer.

#235 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]As sym..really? They kinda dropped the ball on that, too. Hell, Noble 6 was more a symbol than Chief (one that actually worked).

Now it just sounds like you're looking for every petty excuse to elevate Bungie over 343.

Master_ShakeXXX

And you're making yourself look like a tool, brah. You should know that when I say something, I'm serious.

Not really. I'll admit what 343 did right, but the story wasn't it.

And yeah, as a symbol. Um... duh. That's kind of the whole point. Were you just not paying attention when every character in the story treats him with nothingless than outright awe?

I agree, much like how Nathan Hale from Resistance is a symbol for hope and perseverance, and how Joseph Cappeli is a symbol for redemption. Resistance is so deep if you think about it. Deeper than Halo.

*Waits for Champ to agree*
#236 Posted by jg4xchamp (46974 posts) -

alot of what you say in regards to Halo 4 DOES usually equate to "Bungie is everything that is right" while "343 is everything that is wrong", almost to the point where it's too cartoonish

FireSpirit117

Because that's really what it is. 343 could have made an honest to god majestic work of excellence, and he would have said this.

#237 Posted by Master_ShakeXXX (13361 posts) -

[QUOTE="skrat_01"] Still have to play To the Moon, constantly hearing praise about it, still to this day. I've been put off by enough horrible pretentious, angsty anime - as much as I've seen some really excellent stuff, and the same goes for games (though I never cared for Final Fantasy or have tried to touted Persona games), but I'd recommend Catherine. It falls into a few trappings, but it's honestly one of the best games I've played this year. It's Qubert with a theme of infidelity and some excellent writing and really memorable characters; and better yet it's a game that I've seen surprise people who aren't familiar with games, to people who know them back to front. Pretty good stuff. Also, Deadly Premonition. On a mechanical level there's so much wrong with it, and the climax is something else entirely - but that doesn't matter. It's that strong blend of a Japanese interpretation of North America and Twin Peaks, with their own sensibilities coursing right through it. It's great.FrozenLiquid
So just played the trial version of To the Moon..... and oh boy is the dialogue terrible. It feels like it's written by either a high school wannabe or a college freshman trying to get a sitcom going. I feel like the entire game simply aims to be emotionally manipulative, but if there's any merit, it's playing through the actual premise, which is quite similar to Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, though a bit more simple and saccharine. Yeah, I do want to play Catherine, it looks absolutely legit from everything I've seen. Deadly Premonition too. What did you think of Thirty Flights of Loving?

If you're looking for legendary storytelling in a video game, you gotta go Nier. It pushes the boundries of what we can come to expect from stories in games.

#238 Posted by jg4xchamp (46974 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]As sym..really? They kinda dropped the ball on that, too. Hell, Noble 6 was more a symbol than Chief (one that actually worked).

Now it just sounds like you're looking for every petty excuse to elevate Bungie over 343.

Master_ShakeXXX

And you're making yourself look like a tool, brah. You should know that when I say something, I'm serious.

Not really. I'll admit what 343 did right, but the story wasn't it.

And yeah, as a symbol. Um... duh. That's kind of the whole point. Were you just not paying attention when every character in the story treats him with nothingless than outright awe?

I agree, much like how Nathan Hale from Resistance is a symbol for hope and perseverance, and how Joseph Cappeli is a symbol for redemption. Resistance is so deep if you think about it. Deeper than Halo.

Halo is kiddie pool tier in terms of depth.

You can't compare the compelling and far better written characters of the Resistance franchise with terrible ass Halo. The Resistancee games properly executed the feeling of hopelessness and grief that humanity feels being at the mercy of the Chimera. Nathan Hale's constant ball till you fall mentality is honestly insomniac showing gamers the will of a man's heart to fight for what he believes in.

And totally agree. Joey's(I call him Joey, we are bros like that) story was about the redemption he needed to seek for having to kill Hale prematurely. Carrying the burden of killing Hale before the last hero of humanity was disgraced because of what he was becoming. I mean really when you think about it all that bullsh1t Chris Nolan mde up in Dark Knight about batman taking the fall for Aaron Eckhart(I forgot Two Face's real name) was totally swagger jacked from the brilliant work Ted Price and Insomniac did with Resistance.

#239 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]

alot of what you say in regards to Halo 4 DOES usually equate to "Bungie is everything that is right" while "343 is everything that is wrong", almost to the point where it's too cartoonish

jg4xchamp

Because that's really what it is. 343 could have made an honest to god majestic work of excellence, and he would have said this.

Nah. If they'd made an honest-to-God masterpiece, I'd hand it to them, and be all "Yep, Bungie holding the series back confirmed." I have no problem admitting something is good when it's good. I'd still enjoy the Bungie games as much and love the fact that they made the series, but I'd be even more excited that my favorite video game series was getting even better. I mean, why would I not be excited for that? But they didn't, and everyone's all, "It's so much better!" when in a lot of ways, it's just not.
#240 Posted by FireSpirit117 (1981 posts) -

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] You don't buy that the Chief is a symbol? How is this hard to grasp? That's exactly what he is. That's how he has always been portrayed. It's not like he didn't do anything to earn it. I mean FFS, all he does is overcome the impossible. Maybe. But then again, maybe you ought to not say stupid sh!t like what you said.DarkLink77

Of course he is to me, but that's mostly because I have background knowledge. He's a symbol to everyone in that universe, sure, but to the average player who just walks into the game without any background knowledge of MC, he's just some unstoppable killing machine who's fun to play as. The End. Nothing else worth idolizing beyond that point.

Yeah I was kpassionate when I said that and I'm sorry if I offended you. Still, alot of what you say in regards to Halo 4 DOES usually equates to "Bungie is everything that is right" while "343 is everything that is wrong", almost to the point where it's too cartoonish to sound reasonable. I wouldn't mind it if it were just on SW and the GUFU boards you know for fun, but even on a PM I can't get a straight opinion you, even after I gave you mine. How do you think that makes me feel, dude?

I don't think that's true given how iconic the Chief has become in gaming (and popular) culture.

I mean, just look at the ads for Halo 3. The tagline for the game was "Believe." There's a reason that was the tagline. There's a reason they did the diorama, and the one with the old man narrating his experience at that battle. I mean, take Starry Night. Johnson's are all, "Any sign of the Chief?"

And that other marine's all, "Negative, Sarge. I think we lost him."

Then the Chief's all, "Not yet."

Then he jumps into a squad of 15 Brutes (I counted), one of whom is a Chieftan with nothing but an assault rifle and a pistol. And as a fan, there is absolutely no doubt in your mind who wins that.

I mean, there's a reason Bungie ended Halo 3 (non-Legendary ending) with the camera zooming in on the "117" someone carved into that monument.

It's because he's a symbol. It's because, as a player, you believe (and the entire cast believes) that he can do the impossible and win the war by himself. He's basically the personifcation of hope in Bungie's trilogy. He's the guy everyone "Believe"s in. If that's not a character as a symbol, I don't know what is.

As for the PM thing, I offered to tell you my unbiased, DarkLink-persona-off opinion and you turned me down. I don't see what you're upset about.

Dude, I was exatcly where you were 5 years ago when those ads were everywhere, and I felt the same way. But then again, I stil had some background info on the Chief so all that just resonated more.

Could have fooled me. To me, it felt like I had spilt my opinion only to get condenscended to by the "persona". Even though I played it off with a laugh or two, it still didn't feel right.

#241 Posted by jg4xchamp (46974 posts) -
[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Thank you. Finally, someone who payed attention.

Of course champ paid attention. He acts like the abused ex-wife of Bungie, and has the moral prerogative to d1ck them at every turn. tumblr_lt02u5YNYE1r4vc5no1_250.gif

I give credit where they deserve it, and in this case link has a point. What Bungie actually went for and what the extended universe is are two different things on a story level. On a pure game level? They are a company that was fantastic in multiplayer for the most part. When it comes to single player on their best day post 2001 they pumped out something Average. ON THEIR BEST DAY. They are like a slightly better Dice, but at least Dice gets some props for trying something different like Mirror's Edge.
#242 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="FireSpirit117"]

Of course he is to me, but that's mostly because I have background knowledge. He's a symbol to everyone in that universe, sure, but to the average player who just walks into the game without any background knowledge of MC, he's just some unstoppable killing machine who's fun to play as. The End. Nothing else worth idolizing beyond that point.

Yeah I was kpassionate when I said that and I'm sorry if I offended you. Still, alot of what you say in regards to Halo 4 DOES usually equates to "Bungie is everything that is right" while "343 is everything that is wrong", almost to the point where it's too cartoonish to sound reasonable. I wouldn't mind it if it were just on SW and the GUFU boards you know for fun, but even on a PM I can't get a straight opinion you, even after I gave you mine. How do you think that makes me feel, dude?

FireSpirit117

I don't think that's true given how iconic the Chief has become in gaming (and popular) culture.

I mean, just look at the ads for Halo 3. The tagline for the game was "Believe." There's a reason that was the tagline. There's a reason they did the diorama, and the one with the old man narrating his experience at that battle. I mean, take Starry Night. Johnson's are all, "Any sign of the Chief?"

And that other marine's all, "Negative, Sarge. I think we lost him."

Then the Chief's all, "Not yet."

Then he jumps into a squad of 15 Brutes (I counted), one of whom is a Chieftan with nothing but an assault rifle and a pistol. And as a fan, there is absolutely no doubt in your mind who wins that.

I mean, there's a reason Bungie ended Halo 3 (non-Legendary ending) with the camera zooming in on the "117" someone carved into that monument.

It's because he's a symbol. It's because, as a player, you believe (and the entire cast believes) that he can do the impossible and win the war by himself. He's basically the personifcation of hope in Bungie's trilogy. He's the guy everyone "Believe"s in. If that's not a character as a symbol, I don't know what is.

As for the PM thing, I offered to tell you my unbiased, DarkLink-persona-off opinion and you turned me down. I don't see what you're upset about.

Dude, I was exatcly where you were 5 years ago when those ads were everywhere, and I felt the same way. But then again, I stil had some background info on the Chief so all that just resonated more.

Could have fooled me. To me, it felt like I had spilt my opinion only to get condenscended to by the "persona". Even though I played it off with a laugh or two, it still didn't feel right.

I never really stopped being there. I thought those ads were really well done. I don't think you need the EU stuff to believe that the Chief can do anything. That's been made pretty obvious in the games. Well, that wasn't the intention at all. Sorry if came off that way. :(
#243 Posted by Master_ShakeXXX (13361 posts) -

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

And you're making yourself look like a tool, brah. You should know that when I say something, I'm serious.

Not really. I'll admit what 343 did right, but the story wasn't it.

And yeah, as a symbol. Um... duh. That's kind of the whole point. Were you just not paying attention when every character in the story treats him with nothingless than outright awe?

jg4xchamp

I agree, much like how Nathan Hale from Resistance is a symbol for hope and perseverance, and how Joseph Cappeli is a symbol for redemption. Resistance is so deep if you think about it. Deeper than Halo.

Halo is kiddie pool tier in terms of depth.

You can't compare the compelling and far better written characters of the Resistance franchise. Both games properly executed the feeling of hopelessness and grief that humanity feels being at the mercy of the Chimera. Nathan Hale's constant ball till you fall mentality is honestly insomniac showing gamers the will of a man's heart to fight for what he believes in.

And totally agree. Joey's(I call him Joey, we are bros like that) story was about the redemption he needed to seek for having to kill Hale prematurely. Carrying the burden of killing Hale before the last hero of humanity was disgraced because of what he was becoming. I mean really when you think about it all that bullsh1t Chris Nolan mde up in Dark Knight about batman taking the fall for Aaron Eckhart(I forgot Two Face's real name) was totally swagger jacked from the brilliant work Ted Price and Insomniac did with Resistance.

:o

The story just sounds so poetic when you put it like that. The Resistance franchise truly is the underrated masterpiece of our generation.

#244 Posted by jg4xchamp (46974 posts) -
Off gimmick: That's because if I wanted to bet money that's probably what they were actually going for. What they pulled off.....well In gimmick: was a masterpiece.
#245 Posted by Master_ShakeXXX (13361 posts) -

In gimmick: was a masterpiece. jg4xchamp

Well said. Btw I was just playing some Deus Ex HR for the first time and I have two thoughts.

One, the intro level and cinematic was epic. Two, the AI is dumb as hell. When are we going to get a stealth game that delivers believable AI?

#246 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]In gimmick: was a masterpiece. Master_ShakeXXX

Well said. Btw I was just playing some Deus Ex HR for the first time and I have two thoughts.

One, the intro level and cinematic was epic. Two, the AI is dumb as hell. When are we going to get a stealth game that delivers believable AI?

>Smart AI >Stealth Game Pick one.
#247 Posted by jg4xchamp (46974 posts) -

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]In gimmick: was a masterpiece. DarkLink77

Well said. Btw I was just playing some Deus Ex HR for the first time and I have two thoughts.

One, the intro level and cinematic was epic. Two, the AI is dumb as hell. When are we going to get a stealth game that delivers believable AI?

>Smart AI >Stealth Game Pick one.

Chaos Theory and Thief exist.

Batman's AI while not necessarily razor sharp is actually interesting in how they react to how you're playing. Slowly picking their ranks apart messes with their pattern, makes them more jumpy, makes them far more wreckless and trigger happy. In that sense it's some pretty well thought out AI.

Plus the AI in MGS 4 wasn't exactly dumb either. Yes they were pattern based as well, but f*cking around with them is the sort of stuff that makes the MGS stealth fun in the first place.

#248 Posted by PannicAtack (20922 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

Well said. Btw I was just playing some Deus Ex HR for the first time and I have two thoughts.

One, the intro level and cinematic was epic. Two, the AI is dumb as hell. When are we going to get a stealth game that delivers believable AI?

jg4xchamp

>Smart AI >Stealth Game Pick one.

Chaos Theory and Thief exist.

Batman's AI while not necessarily razor sharp is actually interesting in how they react to how you're playing. Slowly picking their ranks apart messes with their pattern, makes them more jumpy, makes them far more wreckless and trigger happy. In that sense it's some pretty well thought out AI.

Plus the AI in MGS 4 wasn't exactly dumb either. Yes they were pattern based as well, but f*cking around with them is the sort of stuff that makes the MGS stealth fun in the first place.

Thief's AI was pretty dang good. Batman's enemy AI made it fun enough to replay the stealth sections multiple times.

#249 Posted by jg4xchamp (46974 posts) -

One, the intro level and cinematic was epic.

Master_ShakeXXX

This is true. That opening mission just conveys all the games many little nuances beautifully, and teaches the player how to properly play the game. It's brilliantly executed, well paced, and gets to the point effeciently. And the stage it sets for the rest of the game? Absolutely marvelous.

Personally I'm afraid it sets the bar too high for the rest of the game, and thus have not bothered to go back because I would like to preserve my current feeling of that game. Simply Epic.

#250 Posted by DarkLink77 (31684 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

Well said. Btw I was just playing some Deus Ex HR for the first time and I have two thoughts.

One, the intro level and cinematic was epic. Two, the AI is dumb as hell. When are we going to get a stealth game that delivers believable AI?

jg4xchamp

>Smart AI >Stealth Game Pick one.

Chaos Theory and Thief exist.

Batman's AI while not necessarily razor sharp is actually interesting in how they react to how you're playing. Slowly picking their ranks apart messes with their pattern, makes them more jumpy, makes them far more wreckless and trigger happy. In that sense it's some pretty well thought out AI.

Plus the AI in MGS 4 wasn't exactly dumb either. Yes they were pattern based as well, but f*cking around with them is the sort of stuff that makes the MGS stealth fun in the first place.

Never played Chaos Theory, so no comment. But agreed on the others. I don't remember Theif all that well, to be honest. The AI in MGS4 isn't exactly smart, though.