Is Halo 4 the greatest love story in gaming this gen? *spoilers*

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#301 Posted by Master_ShakeXXX (13361 posts) -

[QUOTE="dxmcat"]

I bet the Halo 4 love story is way more intense than the Gears one.

meconate

Dude, no. Dom and Marcus's love was true, I was expecting their first kiss... but it never did.

Cole and Baird's love was far deeper. I can't believe they didn't end up together.

#302 Posted by ujjval16 (1669 posts) -

[QUOTE="meconate"]

[QUOTE="dxmcat"]

I bet the Halo 4 love story is way more intense than the Gears one.

Master_ShakeXXX

Dude, no. Dom and Marcus's love was true, I was expecting their first kiss... but it never did.

Cole and Baird's love was far deeper. I can't believe they didn't end up together.

Dizzy and his Derrick... nuff said.
#303 Posted by FrozenLiquid (13022 posts) -

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"]Well, I take it you didn't like Neil.

Well, that's a bummer.

Vaasman

Yeah, Neil was a dealbreaker. His character reminded me of what I use to write when I first got into screenwriting. I also didn't like the silly "hey I'll die so you can finish the house" idea. Honestly, it feels really inauthentic, and the nigh on intellectually offensive when someone says "You'd rather her live than let her die? You selfish, arrogant, prick!".

There are some cool moments however, like the early banter with the children. It almost feels as if the writer, Kan Gao, needs to live a little bit more to write some great stuff. I'll probably buy it a little later to see where it goes, though.

:? If you simply think the idea that they can't pay for a house and a medical operation is forced, I won't argue that, nor will I argue with you about the dialogue. I find the characters likeable and the dialogue largely solid, so to each his own I suppose.

But don't you think you're being a bit hard on the game, to question the motivations of characters 1 hour in? Especially the characters you've barely met by the end of the first hour.

The game is 3.6 hours long. I'm essentially one quarter of the way through the game, and the character arcs have already started. What happens later on in the story the has no bearing on what has come before it i.e a quarter of the way through, it's not impressive. Anyway, to appease those who would rather see me crucified than allow me to think this game has hogwash written all over it, GoG.com's Pick 5, Pay $10 compels me to grab To the Moon at a bargain. I may as well get a Johnny to the moon. I don't think one's ever been up there.
#304 Posted by FrozenLiquid (13022 posts) -

Gaaah that's a shame. Maybe it picks up over time? I've found that can be the case often enough, but still that doesn't bode well. Had a feeling it would be like Enternal Sunshine, which is a great premise to tackle; but still I like to think it does something a bit more interesting with those ideas, without straying too deep into basic emotional manipulation. Who knows, it might work like that and be better for it. Interestingly enough I started playing through Gemi Rue again properly, and there's that same stigma; some just cringeworthy writing here and there - and why of all things did they name the protagonist Azriel Odin. But still, it can be overlooked.

Hopefully To the Moon turns out to be the same.

You really should, I think you'll get a kick out of them. Also, if you're interested in a pretty ballsy, unique approach to game narrative, that's full of glorious cheese (like a Saturday morning cartoon), and well aware of it - Driver San Francisco. I still haven't played much of it, but the way it's written in combination with the game mechanics is surprisingly sublime, and interestingly enough it had the writer Tom Jubert onboard who has a pretty excellent blog about this kind of thing. It's more or less a cartoon Life on Mars meets Bullit / X car chase film.

I thought Thirty Flights was pretty good. Didn't quite have the same kick as Gravity Bone, but it was trying to do very different things. Ireally like how it fragmented the story, and added in the jump cuts, but the finale didn't quite add up to Gravity Bone's climax in terms of how the story wrapped up (the whole end bit of Gravity Bone isgodamn sublime). That and I really didn't like the whole 'this is how flight works' thing at the end. I adore Brendan Chung's work and all, and know he's doing it justbecause for a chuckle, but gah, didn't gel.

That and the removal of game mechanics, despite having so much about the action and movement seemed to do more harm then good. I never got an impression of what my characterdid. The other twodid things you didn't. You weren't the guns and mechanical dude, or the sniper who bakes, or even a super sneaky super spy - like in Gravity bone. You just walk; which considering the whole spy premise and all the rushing and action didn't gel to me. Ain't a Dear Esther in that regard.

But otherwise I enjoyed it, quite a bit! Have you given it a burl? What did you think?

skrat_01
Yeah, Thirty Flights of Loving was a bit lame. I paid for it, but enjoyed the packed in Gravity Bone a lot more. The dev commentary states it was just a mishmash of old ideas, and it definitely felt like it. I don't know why it's getting all the rave reviews when it really doesn't do much for video game storytelling, because there's next to no game at all. And as for Driver San Franciso.... it's one of the only games that has inspired me to start a script treatment on a fairly original concept :lol:. Seriously, consciousness-shifting is such a minefield. It's been done to some degree with films such as Being John Malkovich, and The Matrix if you squint your eye a bit, but in such a tongue-in-cheek manner? Freakin' awesome.
#305 Posted by dreman999 (10748 posts) -
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Indeed. I just feel like it should have been more overt, and his surviving should have been a little more, "We thought you were dead. Like, we built monuments to you."

Your telling me that these people should take the time to bow to a hero in the middle of an invasion?

I'm saying that a little more "Sir, you're not gonna believe this" would have gone a long way.

Man, you priorities are out of line.
#306 Posted by dreman999 (10748 posts) -

[QUOTE="meconate"]

[QUOTE="dxmcat"]

I bet the Halo 4 love story is way more intense than the Gears one.

Master_ShakeXXX

Dude, no. Dom and Marcus's love was true, I was expecting their first kiss... but it never did.

Cole and Baird's love was far deeper. I can't believe they didn't end up together.

I didn't see Cole die for Baird or vis versa like Dom died for Marcus.
#307 Posted by FrozenLiquid (13022 posts) -
[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"] Your telling me that these people should take the time to bow to a hero in the middle of an invasion?

I'm saying that a little more "Sir, you're not gonna believe this" would have gone a long way.

Man, you priorities are out of line.

His priorities maybe, but not his sense of storytelling.
#308 Posted by Vaasman (11869 posts) -

[QUOTE="Vaasman"]

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

Yeah, Neil was a dealbreaker. His character reminded me of what I use to write when I first got into screenwriting. I also didn't like the silly "hey I'll die so you can finish the house" idea. Honestly, it feels really inauthentic, and the nigh on intellectually offensive when someone says "You'd rather her live than let her die? You selfish, arrogant, prick!".

There are some cool moments however, like the early banter with the children. It almost feels as if the writer, Kan Gao, needs to live a little bit more to write some great stuff. I'll probably buy it a little later to see where it goes, though.

FrozenLiquid

:? If you simply think the idea that they can't pay for a house and a medical operation is forced, I won't argue that, nor will I argue with you about the dialogue. I find the characters likeable and the dialogue largely solid, so to each his own I suppose.

But don't you think you're being a bit hard on the game, to question the motivations of characters 1 hour in? Especially the characters you've barely met by the end of the first hour.

What happens later on in the story the has no bearing on what has come before it i.e a quarter of the way through, it's not impressive.

You'll have to clarify, this sentence doesn't make any sense to me.

#309 Posted by PannicAtack (21040 posts) -

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="Vaasman"]:? If you simply think the idea that they can't pay for a house and a medical operation is forced, I won't argue that, nor will I argue with you about the dialogue. I find the characters likeable and the dialogue largely solid, so to each his own I suppose.

But don't you think you're being a bit hard on the game, to question the motivations of characters 1 hour in? Especially the characters you've barely met by the end of the first hour.

Vaasman

What happens later on in the story the has no bearing on what has come before it i.e a quarter of the way through, it's not impressive.

You'll have to clarify, this sentence doesn't make any sense to me.

Basically, if he's 25% of the way through and not enjoying it, saying he should continue on the off-chance he'll enjoy the other 75% is not very advisable.
#310 Posted by jg4xchamp (52004 posts) -

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] I'm sorry but you can take anyone with the same abilities and trade them with MC and know would know the difference. A symbol is not just epic acts alone. Sorry but how someone treats you don't make you a symbol. Also, it's not the case halo4 that no one gives a crap but it's the case the the Captin of the infinity was an ass and they have spartans to spares. Added, the had not time the throw you a party because you facing an alien invasion.dreman999

It's a matter of execution.

Bungie's execution might be off, but the idea is there. Chief's never portrayed or even attempted to be mentioned as this dynamic character. In their games he is a glorified weapon. He's superhero status. Bungie just preferred to use him as a mute gordon freeman like character for the player to project their thoughts on him(it's what they do with Rookie in ODST, and noble 6 in Reach, but even more so).

But the idea of a symbol has everything to do with how you get treated. A martyr becomes a martyr based on how everyone reacts to him. Superman and Batman aren't just symbolic in their universes for what they do, but how the people/their enemies look at them. The comics just do a better job portraying those characters significantly better than what Bungie does with Chief. Who in their games is a Brick.

As for the alien invasion. That's all fine and dandy, but the notion that they react so nonchalant is ridiculous. In Halo 2 he was already a major hero for humanity. After what he did in Halo 3 essentially saving the human race, ending the covenant war, and hey lets throw the galaxy in for good measure he should be on a whole different level of legendary level superhero to them.

The fact that no one has seen him in 4 years. He's become this all time great hero for their society. And then suddenly is back, to top it off in a big time moment again? Their reunion should have something more going for it. To put it another way it's like the opening stretch of Reach. Where the Spartans discover the Covenant have found Reach, and the UNSC command almost gives off this reaction like it's not that big of a deal. When really it should have been a holy sh1t moment for them.

Then again 343 had every reason in the world to not shoe horn in the UNSC and The Covenant, and did it anyway. But that's another issue enirely.

With reach it was not a case they did not react. Just a case they just did what they need to do. Just because they did not go to the extreme of the action dos not mean they did not react. You have to not that an alien invation oversteps going out of you way to welcome a hero. And I'm glad you brought up Superman and batman into this. Because you missing the thing here that make the epic heros, what they stand for. Both have strong moral they stand on.It's not just actions alone that make you a symbol. It also character.

And like I said. It's a matter of execution.

The idea is there in a Bungie game, but as it is he's a brick. But the way the 2 studios present chief in concept is a little different. 343 wants to dig deeper into the humanity of the character, and Bungie wanted to create this superhero. And, one they aren't being invaded, and it's HUMANITIES biggest hero by far. In a 4 year span his legend has to be at an astronomical level, and he's suppose to be dead(MIA since he's a Spartan). This notion that some of you think we expected a parade is absurd, but to just be so low key about it. I mean his reveal to the UNSC with the 2nd in command guy(forgot his name) is maybe a 7 minute conversation, but with none of the impact of "holy sh1t it's the Chief". It just comes off weird given what he is in this universe.

As for Reach, um they barely reacted to it. This was one of humanities biggest strong holds tucked away from the Covenant. The Covenant being their should have been a big deal, and again it's low key. I'm not expecting nukes, but I expected them to act with some urgency at least. As it is I'm only 5 missions in, and so far I'd say 343 does a lot of things I like better than how Bungie does business, but the story side of isn't one of them(it's more like a tie).

#311 Posted by jg4xchamp (52004 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="dreman999"] Your telling me that these people should take the time to bow to a hero in the middle of an invasion?dreman999
I'm saying that a little more "Sir, you're not gonna believe this" would have gone a long way.

Man, you priorities are out of line.

They really aren't.

The reunion between Chief and the other guy just lacks any impact. Without spoiling there is a major reunion in the opening episode of season 4 of Supernatural. After the initial reaction that is a bye product of the universe, we are given a small moment, but one that not only feels like a long over due victory for the characters, but for the audience as well.

And to just have Chief meet whats his face, and it come off as no impact what so ever is just absurd. I mean you want a videogame comparison? Look at how Garrus was presented in Mass Effect 2 when you rejoin him. The reveal is built up, the reactions have some excitement to them. All the while without sacrificing what's going on around them.

As dl said, a bow might have been over done, but soemthing that actually sold the idea of "holy sh1t you're suppose to be dead" or "omg its Masterchief" should have been a given. Given 343s admiration for this universe and passion for it , it's really surprising that they would botch it in that department. Then again build up doesn't seem to be their thing so far.

#312 Posted by DarkLink77 (31983 posts) -
As it is I'm only 5 missions in, and so far I'd say 343 does a lot of things I like better than how Bungie does business, but the story side of isn't one of them(it's more like a tie).jg4xchamp
I kind of feel the same way, though I'd give the story department heavily to Bungie because 1. There are some really, really noticeable plot holes in Halo 4. Like... really, really noticeable to the point that there's no reason for the second part of the final mission to occur the way it does. Also, the Librarian's infodump is awful and a lot of the stuff they want you to care about is really poorly explained. 2. They just get so many things wrong (the Chief's reappearance, they botch the lore something fierce on basic things, they present Del Rio as an idiot when in reality he makes the right call, putting the safety his ship and his crew over a rampant AI and an aging, flagrantly disobedient Spartan that are spouting things that sound nuts, they don't understand military command works [this comes in at the end of the game], and they have this moronic idea that more dialogue somehow makes the Chief a better character when some of it is flat out stupid, and most of it is just standard military chatter that doesn't tell us anything about him that we don't already know). I'm not going to say something Bungie were storytelling Gods or anything (I view them like i view Kojima - great concept guys that are capable of amazing moments but they drop the ball in execution, though I would still say that Staten and the other Bungie writers actually write better than Kojima does), but I have never looked at my TV at sheer disbelief at how stupid some of the stuff was in the game as much in any other Halo game as I did in Halo 4. As far as level design goes, they do pretty well. That said, the levels feel a lot more constricted and I don't like that at all. Even The Gun Show, which was my favorite section of my favorite level, just feels like they give you a Scorpion in a long hallway. Actually, you know what, who am I kidding? I liked Reach's campaign better, and I'd like 3's better if Cortana didn't exist.
#313 Posted by jg4xchamp (52004 posts) -

I kind of feel the same way, though I'd give the story department heavily to Bungie because DarkLink77
because you like dog sh1t.

I didn't need the read the rest. I knew this part already.

#314 Posted by AgentA-Mi6 (16455 posts) -

I'm not going to say something Bungie were storytelling Gods or anything (I view them like i view Kojima - great concept guys that are capable of amazing moments but they drop the ball in execution, though I would still say that Staten and the other Bungie writers actually write better than Kojima does).DarkLink77
If we ever cross paths i'll slap you with a rubber chicken and smack your head with a Rosie O'Donnelll figurine for uttering such an egregious blasphemy.

#315 Posted by DarkLink77 (31983 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]I'm not going to say something Bungie were storytelling Gods or anything (I view them like i view Kojima - great concept guys that are capable of amazing moments but they drop the ball in execution, though I would still say that Staten and the other Bungie writers actually write better than Kojima does).AgentA-Mi6

If we ever cross paths i'll slap you with a rubber chicken and smack your head with a Rosie O'Donnelll figurine for uttering such an egregious blasphemy.

Kojima is an awful writer. If you think otherwise, you have no knowledge of writing craft.
#316 Posted by DarkLink77 (31983 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]I kind of feel the same way, though I'd give the story department heavily to Bungie because jg4xchamp

because you like dog sh1t.

I didn't need the read the rest. I knew this part already.

*sigh* Not at all. I'll admit Halo 2 has a bad story. I'll admit ODST really doesn't matter and fails because it could have been important. They're not storytelling Gods. They just didn't f*ck up as hard as 343 did in Halo 4.
#317 Posted by jg4xchamp (52004 posts) -
As boring as the plot is in Halo 4, they totally f*cked up as much as 343 did. It's called the halo trilogy, ODST, and Reach's retcon nonsense. 343 is like bad fan fiction in some cases, but it's not nearly as offensive as Bungie just out right sucking on multiple levels. 343 has some good ideas here, but they got no idea of build up.
#318 Posted by DarkLink77 (31983 posts) -
As boring as the plot is in Halo 4, they totally f*cked up as much as 343 did. It's called the halo trilogy, ODST, and Reach's retcon nonsense. 343 is like bad fan fiction in some cases, but it's not nearly as offensive as Bungie just out right sucking on multiple levels. 343 has some good ideas here, but they got no idea of build up. jg4xchamp
You really can't hold Combat Evolved against them and Halo 3 does fairly well considering it has to follow Halo 2's nonsense. It's actually a massive improvement in a lot of ways. And aside from the retconnning in Reach (which is minor) and them not reacting to the invasion properly (which I think is more a point of view issue than anything else, because Noble Team is never in a position to show us the invasion on the scale that we expect, nor the "Oh, sh!t" reaction of the UNSC brass), Reach is well done. The best idea 343 had was Cortana's rampancy. Everything else, especially the Forerunner stuff, is cringe-worthy at worst and inoffensive at best.
#319 Posted by Advid-Gamer (4681 posts) -

That farther I got in halo4, the less I liked it, it is by far my least favorite halo, I would even go as far to say it was boring and sucked. The new enemys/weapons and bland environments just didnt feel like halo, there are parts of the game I enjoyed, but over all lost interest in the game all together. I beat halo reach on legendary, it was fun as hell, I am on the last level in halo 4 and cant even bring myself to finish it, because I just dont give a damn about it, i youtubed the ending. They tried hard to make cortona hot so we would care about her, MC is in love with a compuer program, wow what a love story :roll:

#320 Posted by ShadowsDemon (9550 posts) -
Considering how many people have spoiled it for me, I'm sure it'll lose its effect by the time I play it....
#321 Posted by Advid-Gamer (4681 posts) -
Considering how many people have spoiled it for me, I'm sure it'll lose its effect by the time I play it....ShadowsDemon
Theres not much to spoil, its easy to see from the get go.
#322 Posted by ShadowsDemon (9550 posts) -
[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"]Considering how many people have spoiled it for me, I'm sure it'll lose its effect by the time I play it....Advid-Gamer
Theres not much to spoil, its easy to see from the get go.

I guess so, but I still wanna play it.
#323 Posted by skrat_01 (33767 posts) -

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Gaaah that's a shame. Maybe it picks up over time? I've found that can be the case often enough, but still that doesn't bode well. Had a feeling it would be like Enternal Sunshine, which is a great premise to tackle; but still I like to think it does something a bit more interesting with those ideas, without straying too deep into basic emotional manipulation. Who knows, it might work like that and be better for it. Interestingly enough I started playing through Gemi Rue again properly, and there's that same stigma; some just cringeworthy writing here and there - and why of all things did they name the protagonist Azriel Odin. But still, it can be overlooked.

Hopefully To the Moon turns out to be the same.

You really should, I think you'll get a kick out of them. Also, if you're interested in a pretty ballsy, unique approach to game narrative, that's full of glorious cheese (like a Saturday morning cartoon), and well aware of it - Driver San Francisco. I still haven't played much of it, but the way it's written in combination with the game mechanics is surprisingly sublime, and interestingly enough it had the writer Tom Jubert onboard who has a pretty excellent blog about this kind of thing. It's more or less a cartoon Life on Mars meets Bullit / X car chase film.

I thought Thirty Flights was pretty good. Didn't quite have the same kick as Gravity Bone, but it was trying to do very different things. Ireally like how it fragmented the story, and added in the jump cuts, but the finale didn't quite add up to Gravity Bone's climax in terms of how the story wrapped up (the whole end bit of Gravity Bone isgodamn sublime). That and I really didn't like the whole 'this is how flight works' thing at the end. I adore Brendan Chung's work and all, and know he's doing it justbecause for a chuckle, but gah, didn't gel.

That and the removal of game mechanics, despite having so much about the action and movement seemed to do more harm then good. I never got an impression of what my characterdid. The other twodid things you didn't. You weren't the guns and mechanical dude, or the sniper who bakes, or even a super sneaky super spy - like in Gravity bone. You just walk; which considering the whole spy premise and all the rushing and action didn't gel to me. Ain't a Dear Esther in that regard.

But otherwise I enjoyed it, quite a bit! Have you given it a burl? What did you think?

FrozenLiquid

Yeah, Thirty Flights of Loving was a bit lame. I paid for it, but enjoyed the packed in Gravity Bone a lot more. The dev commentary states it was just a mishmash of old ideas, and it definitely felt like it. I don't know why it's getting all the rave reviews when it really doesn't do much for video game storytelling, because there's next to no game at all. And as for Driver San Franciso.... it's one of the only games that has inspired me to start a script treatment on a fairly original concept :lol:. Seriously, consciousness-shifting is such a minefield. It's been done to some degree with films such as Being John Malkovich, and The Matrix if you squint your eye a bit, but in such a tongue-in-cheek manner? Freakin' awesome.

Yeah it really is a mish mash of old ideas, and I can appreciate everything it does right, but yeah, I'm surprised there's so much gushing. Really would've benefited from a few more mechanical things. Oh really?! Hah, wow, and you're right about John Malkovich and whanot, but damm you're right. It's rich and ripe for creating an interesting narrative, and hell - translating mechanically it speaks to gamesway too well.

#324 Posted by skrat_01 (33767 posts) -

@Skrat

[spoiler] I thought the game almost made it too obvious she wasn't real or that she was a demon. I mean yeah totally free spirit vs order and balance and stuff was nice, but it kind of cheapens the decision making.

My personal favorite part of the game is how it never explains the morality thing, but you just naturally react to it because blue means good, red means bad right? pfft sike...it has nothing to do with morality what so ever. F*cking brilliant. The questions it asked were goofy, but some of them were really vague, and then out of nowhere the game gets more direct with it. I had my finacee watch some of that stuff, and I had to be careful about what I picked lol [/spoiler]

Game is legit though. Lots of great story stuff, I love its take on relationships, and the puzzles were really good in between some lame ones. Plus the game instantly had me hooked when it opens up with Vince looking at Catherines finger tapping on the table. Was like "Yep, I KNOW THAT FINGER BRO, I know your pain" :lol:

jg4xchamp

[spoiler] Couldn't agree more, honestly I loved the way things were revealed but I loathed how it didn't go anywhere with Catherine after that; and how there was that whole birth control **** tacked on for utterly no reason. Bossman was cool. Catherine was cool. Just wish they didn't decide to try and give reason and rationalize things so much, even kept it firmly supernatural with no reasons about 'order' and stuff. But yeah all of that red and blue stuff was great, really well done - and the graphs - my girlfriend picked up a copy after I did, and it was also great playing through it and seeing how we reacted to things. Same with bros when drinking and playing video games; Catherine is a game that seems to really gel with a lot of people; the style, the themes, the characters. [/spoiler]

It's great, it really is that - and hahahahaha yeah I know what you mean by that scene - for me it was just the whole title screen and menu with the announcer. Bam, moneys worth right there, I'm in.