Is 1.84 TFLOPS a lot for a GPU?

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#51 Posted by faizan_faizan (7866 posts) -
[QUOTE="adamosmaki"][QUOTE="faizan_faizan"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] LOL Radeon HD 8800 XTX

That would be so funny lol.

i can see it now. There will be the 8870 and 8850 and they will release a special edition dubbed 8880 just to troll nvidia abit

Yea lol.
#52 Posted by GoldenElementXL (3466 posts) -
Well it's nice to see the Console Kids finally take up an interest in technology. Maybe a few will become educated enough to carry on an intelligent debate. But probably not.........
#53 Posted by casharmy (6836 posts) -

Flops don't mean sh*t to me, how did all those flops turn out last gen?

I don't know, but it runs Agni's Philosophy tech demo which on PC was running on 680, so that is good for the PS4.

SaltyMeatballs

How did it turn out :?...PS3 was the only console to win the best graphics awards for exclusive games the entire generation.  lol

#54 Posted by EG101 (880 posts) -

[QUOTE="SaltyMeatballs"]

Flops don't mean sh*t to me, how did all those flops turn out last gen?

I don't know, but it runs Agni's Philosophy tech demo which on PC was running on 680, so that is good for the PS4.

casharmy

How did it turn out :?...PS3 was the only console to win the best graphics awards for exclusive games the entire generation. lol

Wrong.

Gears of War was True Graphics King when it released in 2006.

Your Hi and Mighty PS3 Graphics Kings Never looked better than Hi end PC games while Gears of War was the best looking game available when it launched and that is including PC games.

Back to topic: 1.84 Tflop is a descent upgrade but not the 2.5 - 4 Tflops I was expecting this gen to bring after 8 years.

#55 Posted by Timbury (552 posts) -

Flops don't mean sh*t to me, how did all those flops turn out last gen?

I don't know, but it runs Agni's Philosophy tech demo which on PC was running on 680, so that is good for the PS4.

SaltyMeatballs
I wouldn't be so sure of that unless its fully confirmed that Agnis was running on PS4 Dev Kit, or more likely a PC with similer specs to PS4. They may of said in the conference it was, but so did Ubisoft about Watchdogs, which later confirmed to be running on PC. It's all smoke and mirrors, until this stuff is played by consumers.
#56 Posted by casharmy (6836 posts) -

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

[QUOTE="SaltyMeatballs"]

Flops don't mean sh*t to me, how did all those flops turn out last gen?

I don't know, but it runs Agni's Philosophy tech demo which on PC was running on 680, so that is good for the PS4.

EG101

How did it turn out :?...PS3 was the only console to win the best graphics awards for exclusive games the entire generation. lol

Wrong.

Gears of War was True Graphics King when it released in 2006.

Your Hi and Mighty PS3 Graphics Kings Never looked better than Hi end PC games while Gears of War was the best looking game available when it launched and that is including PC games.

Back to topic: 1.84 Tflop is a descent upgrade but not the 2.5 - 4 Tflops I was expecting this gen to bring after 8 years.

quiet fool, and learn to read before you take that tone with me.

#57 Posted by RyviusARC (4643 posts) -

[QUOTE="RyviusARC"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] PS4 has 8 GB GDDR5 memory which is useful for very large textures in-flight. There's are reasons for why high-end pro GPU cards has large amount of VRAM. Some of 7970s already includes 6 GB of GDDR5 memory. For the CPU, fast GDDR5 reduces the need for large-on-chip caches. Anyway, there's GDDR6 for 2014 i.e. my Radeon HD 7950 would be almost 2 years old. ronvalencia

 

But as levels becomes larger and more complex there be a higher need for system memory.

They have to balance that out and find a happy medium.

With HSA and unified memory, there would be zero copy between CPU and GPU i.e. both CPU and GPU would be working on the the same data at the same memory location.

PS4's APU design would be recycled after AMD Kaveri APU (8 CU) i.e. 16 CU PC APU with Streamroller.

Doesn't discount what I said about larger more detailed levels need more memory dedicated to them.

#58 Posted by RyviusARC (4643 posts) -

 

W-What, what is with this post?

Is there some gene that you have active (extra chromosome?) that forces you to compare it to an orange? I just said keep it AMD vs AMD, it's the most logical comparison. And it may be important to note that this whole generation is targeting AMD hardware for performance, no one's going Nvidia for consoles.

And what about this overclocking, how is that relevant at all?

Inconsistancy

 

I said that GFLOPs as a whole is inaccurate compared to realworld game performance whether it be AMD vs AMD or AMD vs Nvidia.

GFLOPs is a theorectical guess using mathematics to confirm the higher potential but in reality GPUs usually never come close to it in games.

I mentioned NVidia in a previous post because someone was using Nvidia GFLOPs to say that the PS4 was better.

OCing was brought into discussion because it helps increase performance on PC GPUs compared to a console which can't OC.

This was all about the OP's post which is comparing the PS4 to a PC.

#59 Posted by RyviusARC (4643 posts) -

 

Wrong.

Gears of War was True Graphics King when it released in 2006.

Your Hi and Mighty PS3 Graphics Kings Never looked better than Hi end PC games while Gears of War was the best looking game available when it launched and that is including PC games.

Back to topic: 1.84 Tflop is a descent upgrade but not the 2.5 - 4 Tflops I was expecting this gen to bring after 8 years.

EG101

 

Nah F.E.A.R. looked better to me than Gears of War on consoles.

Gears of War on PC looks a lot better though.

#60 Posted by GioVela2010 (4143 posts) -
It's impressive for exclusive games. John Carmach thinks exclusive games get twice as much performance out of equal PC hardware.
#61 Posted by EG101 (880 posts) -

[QUOTE="EG101"]

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

How did it turn out :?...PS3 was the only console to win the best graphics awards for exclusive games the entire generation. lol

casharmy

Wrong.

Gears of War was True Graphics King when it released in 2006.

Your Hi and Mighty PS3 Graphics Kings Never looked better than Hi end PC games while Gears of War was the best looking game available when it launched and that is including PC games.

Back to topic: 1.84 Tflop is a descent upgrade but not the 2.5 - 4 Tflops I was expecting this gen to bring after 8 years.

quiet fool, and learn to read before you take that tone with me.

Gears Of War was xbox Exclusive when it launched. GeOW released for PC a Year after it released on 360 ;)

#62 Posted by 04dcarraher (19955 posts) -
O my are we forgetting what Sony is rumored to do with the PS4? in game screenshots and video capture, physics , gpgpu features.... It has been stated that they will allocate14CU of the gpu for normal operations while another 4CU will be allocated for other items and features. Which means that the PS4 gpu will not be able to to use all of the gpu performance for just "the game". Only using 14CU means only around 1.4 TFLOP of performance. Which puts the gpu between a 7770 and 7850 performance wise.
#63 Posted by clyde46 (46856 posts) -
You know, as a straight FLOPS VS FLOPS, the PS4 has the same power as my 580. Welp. But we all know thats not how you compare GPU's though.
#64 Posted by clyde46 (46856 posts) -
[QUOTE="GioVela2010"]It's impressive for exclusive games. John Carmach thinks exclusive games get twice as much performance out of equal PC hardware.

Its a given that exclusives will run better because they are built around the platform. Thats why Uncharted looks and plays really well on the PS3 while Skyrim runs and looks like crap.
#65 Posted by Rocker6 (13358 posts) -

You know, as a straight FLOPS VS FLOPS, the PS4 has the same power as my 580. Welp. But we all know thats not how you compare GPU's though.clyde46

I'd really like to believe that!

These days, I'd expect plenty of consolites running around, yelling "8 GB GDDR5" or "1.84 TFLOPS", without actually knowing a first thing about it. Sony marketting, we had "Teh CELL" on the PS3, we might have "supercharged" on the PS4. :P

#66 Posted by kozzy1234 (35266 posts) -

The biggest thing is the 8gb of ram imo. This gen the under 1gb of ram really really hurt.

But cows really need to stop hyping stuff so much! They seem so quick to forget before this gen that people acted like TEH CELL would be the best thing ever and that it would destroy the 360, well in the end it didnt... Exclusives looked good but the multiplats most hte time where better on 360 then on ps3.

I am sure the ps4 exclusives will look amazing to (i think thats what Carmack means to), but the real interesting thing will be seeing how multiplats fair this upcoming gen on the ps4.

#67 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

LOL at the fool saying he expected 2.5 TFLOPS. If Sony did that then he would talking about overpriced consoles again. Let the butthurts flow.

#68 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

 

I am sure the ps4 exclusives will look amazing to (i think thats what Carmack means to), but the real interesting thing will be seeing how multiplats fair this upcoming gen on the ps4.

kozzy1234

The certainly won't be inferior in any way. The Nextbox will be the lowest common denominator dragging down every one though. Wii U would be the worst, but they won't be getting most multiplats any way. :lol:

#69 Posted by dovberg (3348 posts) -

PC graphics always being consolized is the more important thing here.  PC graphics will now have devs making games with a much higher bar set, this benefits gaming as a whole.

#70 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

FLOPS isn't the most important thing.

If it were, the PS2 would have the best graphics last gen.

But it did not due to a crappy GPU. (no support for hardware full-scene anti-aliasing, lol)

Things like amount of shaders, texture units, fillrate, memory speed, memory interface, architecture type, ect. matter too, if not more.

Technically, you can have a GPU (or CPU) with very high FLOPS rating but it could still be pretty bad for graphics in comparison to a GPU that has a newer architecture design and is generally more efficient and "balanced".

#71 Posted by Cherokee_Jack (32198 posts) -

I think I figured out it had slightly higher FLOPS than my 7850. Hopefully that means I won't have to upgrade very soon.

Except to get rid of my now-100%-useless x6. :[

#72 Posted by ReadingRainbow4 (14709 posts) -

I love pc gaming, but a select few hermits are acting like total tw@ts honestly.

#73 Posted by loosingENDS (11868 posts) -

Considering the PS4's Architecture is not TEH CELLZ and is a lot more similar to that of PCs, I think it won't be too long until someone makes an Emulator, However i doubt there will be many exclusives this gen, This gen will be different i have a feeling. faizan_faizan

The unified ram makes it totally different than PC architecture really

#74 Posted by BrunoBRS (73263 posts) -
1.840.000.000.000 flops? PS4 hasn't even launching and it's flopping everywhere! /obviousjoke
#75 Posted by BrunoBRS (73263 posts) -

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"]Considering the PS4's Architecture is not TEH CELLZ and is a lot more similar to that of PCs, I think it won't be too long until someone makes an Emulator, However i doubt there will be many exclusives this gen, This gen will be different i have a feeling. loosingENDS

The unified ram makes it totally different than PC architecture really

seems emulatable though.
#76 Posted by Chozofication (3113 posts) -

Why are people talk about emulating the PS4?  Today's PC's can't even emulate 360.  People must have no idea how emulation works on here...

As for the topic, Ps4 is a monster.  As big or bigger a monster than OG xbox was.

#78 Posted by Chozofication (3113 posts) -

Also, Ps4 only has one chip, an APU.

APU performance >>> seperate chipsets.  And Since APU's share ram it only makes the unified GDDR5 even better.  PS4 is monster.

#79 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

Why are people talk about emulating the PS4?  Today's PC's can't even emulate 360.  People must have no idea how emulation works on here...

Chozofication

 

True.

The first Xbox was literally a PC in console case yet emulating it was not an easy task...

Also, you would need atleast 10-times better PC to emulate it so good luck with that...

#80 Posted by Chozofication (3113 posts) -

[QUOTE="Chozofication"]

Why are people talk about emulating the PS4?  Today's PC's can't even emulate 360.  People must have no idea how emulation works on here...

nameless12345

 

True.

The first Xbox was literally a PC in console case yet emulating it was not an easy task...

Indeed. 

Funny thing is, we have a huge Ps2 and Gamecube/Wii emulator but no Xbox emu which is closest to PC.  :P

#81 Posted by KarateeeChop (4662 posts) -

didn't sony promise the ps3's flop speed would double that of the 360's? that didn't turn out so well and the ps3 ended up as the weaker of the two when it came to graphics. :(

#82 Posted by loosingENDS (11868 posts) -

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"]Considering the PS4's Architecture is not TEH CELLZ and is a lot more similar to that of PCs, I think it won't be too long until someone makes an Emulator, However i doubt there will be many exclusives this gen, This gen will be different i have a feeling. BrunoBRS

The unified ram makes it totally different than PC architecture really

seems emulatable though.

 

How ? On PC you have to account for the swaping of ram to Vram, if a game is based on the unified architecture and optimized for zero swaps, how do you emulate that fast ram with no swaps ?

Seems PS4 will be one of the hardest to emulate

#83 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="Chozofication"]

Why are people talk about emulating the PS4?  Today's PC's can't even emulate 360.  People must have no idea how emulation works on here...

Chozofication

 

True.

The first Xbox was literally a PC in console case yet emulating it was not an easy task...

Indeed. 

Funny thing is, we have a huge Ps2 and Gamecube/Wii emulator but no Xbox emu which is closest to PC.  :P

 

Well, part of reason for that is also that there were a lot of Xbox ports for the PC and there was low interest for making a functional emu for Xbox.

Still, thinking that emulating a similar architecture is no problem is foolish.

Especially so if you want accurate emulation. (for example some SNES emus can task even good PCs due to accurate emulation; more so when using some specific, hardware demanding filters)

#84 Posted by stereointegrity (10742 posts) -
atleast sony dedicated a chip just to UI.......that takes a good load off the cpu and gpu
#85 Posted by Chozofication (3113 posts) -

[QUOTE="Chozofication"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

 

True.

The first Xbox was literally a PC in console case yet emulating it was not an easy task...

nameless12345

Indeed. 

Funny thing is, we have a huge Ps2 and Gamecube/Wii emulator but no Xbox emu which is closest to PC.  :P

 

Well, part of reason for that is also that there were a lot of Xbox ports for the PC and there was low interest for making a functional emu for Xbox.

Still, thinking that emulating a similar architecture is no problem is foolish.

Especially so if you want accurate emulation. (for example some SNES emus can task even good PCs due to accurate emulation; more so when using some specific, hardware demanding filters)

Yeah I was thinking that was a reason.  Probably the same reason we won't see an Xbox 360 emu.  Ps3 will get one way down the line though.

#86 Posted by silversix_ (15027 posts) -

PC graphics always being consolized is the more important thing here.  PC graphics will now have devs making games with a much higher bar set, this benefits gaming as a whole.

dovberg

And release games that run under 20 fps on a 500$ gpu *cough* crysis 3 *cough*

#87 Posted by ChubbyGuy40 (26212 posts) -

Why are people talk about emulating the PS4?  Today's PC's can't even emulate 360.  People must have no idea how emulation works on here...

Chozofication

It's quite difficult to reverse engineer something you don't know. Microsoft can emulate the Xbox on the 360, but only because they have all the information of how it works. Despite how good Wii's emulation is, it's still getting better especially since the CPU docs were finally leaked. Then we also have the general issue of having a dedicated developer team, which many are not lucky enough to have.

I imagine having very PC-like hardware will make emulation possible a lot sooner rather than later.

#88 Posted by BrunoBRS (73263 posts) -

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

The unified ram makes it totally different than PC architecture really

loosingENDS

seems emulatable though.

 

How ? On PC you have to account for the swaping of ram to Vram, if a game is based on the unified architecture and optimized for zero swaps, how do you emulate that fast ram with no swaps ?

Seems PS4 will be one of the hardest to emulate

brute force it. compensate the non-unified architecture with raw power, which is something PCs are quite able to do, or will be able to in a couple years. no one said it would be smooth. hell, gamecube emulation is still a complete mess to this day.
#89 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="Chozofication"]

Indeed. 

Funny thing is, we have a huge Ps2 and Gamecube/Wii emulator but no Xbox emu which is closest to PC.  :P

Chozofication

 

Well, part of reason for that is also that there were a lot of Xbox ports for the PC and there was low interest for making a functional emu for Xbox.

Still, thinking that emulating a similar architecture is no problem is foolish.

Especially so if you want accurate emulation. (for example some SNES emus can task even good PCs due to accurate emulation; more so when using some specific, hardware demanding filters)

Yeah I was thinking that was a reason.  Probably the same reason we won't see an Xbox 360 emu.  Ps3 will get one way down the line though.

 

I wouldn't be terribly optimistic about that either tbh.

Sony's consoles use (or used) exotic CPU tech so emulating them can be hard.

PS2 emus still have a lot of glitches and issues, mind emulating the PS3.

Emulating the PS4 so early is clearly fantasy talk.

I would sooner expect a WiiU emu than a PS3 emu but let's not turn this debate too off-topic...

#91 Posted by ChubbyGuy40 (26212 posts) -

hell, gamecube emulation is still a complete mess to this day.BrunoBRS

I still find it funny that Wii emulation is better than Gamecube.

#92 Posted by loosingENDS (11868 posts) -

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] seems emulatable though.BrunoBRS

 

How ? On PC you have to account for the swaping of ram to Vram, if a game is based on the unified architecture and optimized for zero swaps, how do you emulate that fast ram with no swaps ?

Seems PS4 will be one of the hardest to emulate

brute force it. compensate the non-unified architecture with raw power, which is something PCs are quite able to do, or will be able to in a couple years. no one said it would be smooth. hell, gamecube emulation is still a complete mess to this day.

That means 10-15 years down the line to use brute force and still get the unified scheme performance

Unless ram speeds double in two years, which i doubt will happen any time soon

#93 Posted by NoodleFighter (7125 posts) -

[QUOTE="Heil68"]all i know is it's better than what is currently in the juggernaut PS3. That's good enough for me. Thank you Sony.RyviusARC

 

Yah it's a monster compared to the PS3.

I am happy they went all out and also added more RAM.

Now PC won't be held back as much.

Can't wait for the Maxwell series of Nvidia GPUs next year.

I am predicting another 8800GTX.

I'm expecting it once GDDR6 hits the market

and they'll need to invest in some high end PC exclusive to take advantage of it like they did with Crysis

#94 Posted by NoodleFighter (7125 posts) -

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

 

How ? On PC you have to account for the swaping of ram to Vram, if a game is based on the unified architecture and optimized for zero swaps, how do you emulate that fast ram with no swaps ?

Seems PS4 will be one of the hardest to emulate

loosingENDS

brute force it. compensate the non-unified architecture with raw power, which is something PCs are quite able to do, or will be able to in a couple years. no one said it would be smooth. hell, gamecube emulation is still a complete mess to this day.

That means 10-15 years down the line to use brute force and still get the unified scheme performance

Unless ram speeds double in two years, which i doubt will happen any time soon

DDR4 is expected next year lets see how that goes same for GDDR6

#96 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

[QUOTE="RyviusARC"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"]all i know is it's better than what is currently in the juggernaut PS3. That's good enough for me. Thank you Sony.NoodleFighter

 

Yah it's a monster compared to the PS3.

I am happy they went all out and also added more RAM.

Now PC won't be held back as much.

Can't wait for the Maxwell series of Nvidia GPUs next year.

I am predicting another 8800GTX.

I'm expecting it once GDDR6 hits the market

and they'll need to invest in some high end PC exclusive to take advantage of it like they did with Crysis

 

Will it happen this time, tho?

CryTek clearly said that developing just for PC is not worth it and Epic are like minded as well...

The future of high budget "AAA" games is multi-platform and (most likely) console-centric development.

#97 Posted by glez13 (8894 posts) -

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

[QUOTE="RyviusARC"]

 

Yah it's a monster compared to the PS3.

I am happy they went all out and also added more RAM.

Now PC won't be held back as much.

Can't wait for the Maxwell series of Nvidia GPUs next year.

I am predicting another 8800GTX.

nameless12345

I'm expecting it once GDDR6 hits the market

and they'll need to invest in some high end PC exclusive to take advantage of it like they did with Crysis

 

Will it happen this time, tho?

CryTek clearly said that developing just for PC is not worth it and Epic are like minded as well...

The future of high budget "AAA" games is multi-platform and (most likely) console-centric development.

This. I can only see big games that really push it coming from first party developers. On the PC  the only hope I see is from incoming devs, since everyone else who is already established is apparently jumping on multiplat development.

#98 Posted by DarkLink77 (31697 posts) -

You can't compare GFLOPs/TFLOPs with different brand GPUs.

Nvidia GPUs are designed differently compared to AMD GPUs.

For example;

A GTX 480 is rated at around 1300 GFLOPs.

An AMD 5870 is rated at around 2700 GFLOPs.

According to that it must mean the 5870 is more than two times the power of a GTX 480.

Contrary to that the GTX 480 is quite a bit more powerful than a 5870.

So you see why using GLOPs/TFLOPs for comparisons in performance it not accurate especially when comparing completely different gpu designs.

RyviusARC
This. It's like saying a performance car from the '70s will go faster than a current one because the one from the 70s has more horsepower. That's not really how this works.
#99 Posted by Alienware_fan (1514 posts) -

2013 console getting a GPU similar to what was out 2010. Cool beans.C_Rule
I dont think your 670 would be able to maxout even the early ps4/720 games, i bet you know that too, is that why your hating?

#100 Posted by ShadowDeathX (10695 posts) -
LOL comparing Nvidia design to AMD design. FAIL.... A Radeon HD 6850 has almost the same amount of TFLOPs @ SP as the PS4 does. Yet, a GTX580 destroys a 6850. HUSH!