Is 1080p really needed in games ?

:lol:

Just don't talk about Avatar. It's a totally different thing.

Go and play on PC at 1080p, you'll see what all the fuss is about. Yes, 1080p is needed. Every time when I play on consoles, I'm being underwhelmed by the amount of Vaseline at 720p.

I'm a PC and everything is graphic king when its 1080p

Yes.

XBox 720(p)C_Rule

Yes.

theSADmafioso

Excellent comparison

Yes.

theSADmafioso

Perfect. That's exactly what I was talking about, with Dark Souls being a great example.

higher res is always better than lower res

[QUOTE="theSADmafioso"]

Yes.

the_bi99man

Perfect. That's exactly what I was talking about, with Dark Souls being a great example.

1080p is needed if you game on a 32+ inch tv. Only if you gaming on a small screen you cant tell the difference... unless you game 1 feet away from it or something.. pc lol

Dark Souls is one of the crappier ports to hit the PC but there's still a world of difference from the console 720p to PC 1080p . fend_oblivion

That screenshot is probably using the mod that allows higher resolutions.

The vanilla PC version is 720p too.

1080p is needed if you game on a 32+ inch tv. Only if you gaming on a small screen you cant tell the difference... unless you game 1 feet away from it or something.. pc lol

KillzoneSnake

Well it's obviously easier to see the difference when you're closer to the screen. That's why PC monitors have been using "HD" resolutions since years before the first "HDTVs" even existed. Even when 720p TVs first came around, 1280x1024 (which is exactly as wide as 720p, and over 300 pixels taller, being a 5:4 aspect ratio) had already been a standard monitor resolution for years.

Even so, it's not like the difference isn't there when it's a smaller screen and/or farther away. Being farther away just makes all resolutions look a little better. Including 720p and 1080p and anything else.

That screenshot is probably using the mod that allows higher resolutions.

The vanilla PC version is 720p too

R4gn4r0k

That's not the point. The point is that a game designed around 720p being rendered at 1080p looks better and shows more of the hidden details in the game world. Imagine if the game had been design from the ground up with 1080p in mind.

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]Dark Souls is one of the crappier ports to hit the PC but there's still a world of difference from the console 720p to PC 1080p . R4gn4r0k

That screenshot is probably using the mod that allows higher resolutions.

The vanilla PC version is 720p too.

It definitely is. That's the point.

And the point I was getting at, is that it really shows how much resolution helps. Since nothing else was changed. The textures and other assets that are seen in the 1080p shot are all there in the first place. They're in the console versions. The detail is just buried because of the resolution. Those pics clearly show a massive, night and day difference, and the only thing changed in any way is an increase in resolution.

Also, the console versions/vanilla PC version aren't even in 720p. A little bit less. If you use DSfix and set the res to 1280x720, it still looks just a little better than vanilla.

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]Dark Souls is one of the crappier ports to hit the PC but there's still a world of difference from the console 720p to PC 1080p . R4gn4r0k

That screenshot is probably using the mod that allows higher resolutions.

The vanilla PC version is 720p too.

It definitely is. That's the point.

And the point I was getting at, is that it really shows how much resolution helps. Since nothing else was changed. The textures and other assets that are seen in the 1080p shot are all there in the first place. They're in the console versions. The detail is just buried because of the resolution. Those pics clearly show a massive, night and day difference, and the only thing changed in any way is an increase in resolution.

Also, the console versions/vanilla PC version aren't even in 720p. A little bit less. If you use DSfix and set the res to 1280x720, it still looks just a little better than vanilla.

the_bi99man

I agree with that. Resolution makes a lot of difference and the only people that can't see that are blind fanboys like shadowmoses and loosingENDS. Blind fanboys that will make a total 180 in their standpoints when their beloved console manufacturers make higher resolutions available. :lol:

The end result is all that matters, the "mod" was rather simple If i'm not wrong, it took the modder less than half an hour to release the fix.rjdofu

Of course the end result matters but fend was talking about the quality of the port. So I replied to that. The port, in itself, does not allow for higher resolutions than 720p. So it does not show a huge difference between 720p and 1080p like he claimed.

If you count the resolution fix mod than it's not 'one of the crappiest ports to hit the PC' anymore. Because that mod fixes the biggest problem the port had.

[QUOTE="R4gn4r0k"]

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]Dark Souls is one of the crappier ports to hit the PC but there's still a world of difference from the console 720p to PC 1080p . rjdofu

That screenshot is probably using the mod that allows higher resolutions.

The vanilla PC version is 720p too.

The way I understand it, it wasn't even really much of a "mod" in the traditional sense, since there were no assets changed, or even any engine tweaks. They just shipped the game with the resolution locked, like the console version, because they literally copy/pasted the 360 version for the PC. Which is also why the mouse/keyboard controls are... nonexistent, without another mod. But yeah, all the DSfix is, is a tiny tweak to unlock the resolution, the way every single PC game is. Something From Software could have done with absolutely no effort, in about 10 seconds, if they weren't extraordinarily lazy about the port.

1080p is needed if you game on a 32+ inch tv. Only if you gaming on a small screen you cant tell the difference... unless you game 1 feet away from it or something.. pc lol

KillzoneSnake

I use a 24" 1080p TV as my PC monitor. I have both PC and PS3 hooked up to it (via HDMI 1 and 2). I can flip back and forth between each HDMI. The differences between 1080p and 720p games are very noticeable. Much as I like some games on the PS3, it's always good to return to a PC game. Seeing the clearer image quality of 1080p plus higher levels of detail and ample antialiasing in PC games made me appreciate it even more. I'm certainly hoping the next-gen consoles will be capable of 1080p because it'll be awesome.

Of course the end result matters but fend was talking about the quality of the port. So I replied to that. The port, in itself, does not allow for higher resolutions than 720p. So it does not show a huge difference between 720p and 1080p like he claimed.

If you count the resolution fix mod than it's not 'one of the crappiest ports to hit the PC' anymore. Because that mod does fixes the biggest problem the port had.

R4gn4r0k

I'd say it still warrants calling it a terrible port. :PI mean, that should nothave been something that a modder needed to "fix". A PC game with a locked resolution? I'm pretty sure that's completely unprecedented. The only excuse for why it didn't have resolution options available in the first place, is developer laziness on a legendary scale.

Edit: why do some of my posts come up with this tiny tiny font size? It's been happening with random posts every now and again for the last couple days. I don't get it. I'm not changing anything to make it that way, and I can't figure out how to fix it in an edit.

Are you seriously asking this question or are you fapping off to all the ridicule and laughter you knew this thread would generate.

Just in case it's the former; yes. All next gen console games should be a mandatory 1080p. It's only been the TV standard for 10+ years and is already pathetic by PC standards. Not to mention we were promised this with the current gen. It's past time for MS and Sony to deliver.

[QUOTE="rjdofu"][QUOTE="R4gn4r0k"]

That screenshot is probably using the mod that allows higher resolutions.

The vanilla PC version is 720p too.

the_bi99man

The way I understand it, it wasn't even really much of a "mod" in the traditional sense, since there were no assets changed, or even any engine tweaks. They just shipped the game with the resolution locked, like the console version, because they literally copy/pasted the 360 version for the PC. Which is also why the mouse/keyboard controls are... nonexistent, without another mod. But yeah, all the DSfix is, is a tiny tweak to unlock the resolution, the way every single PC game is. Something From Software could have done with absolutely no effort, in about 10 seconds, if they weren't extraordinarily lazy about the port.

Are you seriously asking this question or are you fapping off to all the ridicule and laughter you knew this thread would generate.

Just in case it's the former; yes. All next gen console games should be a mandatory 1080p. It's only been the TV standard for 10+ years and is already pathetic by PC standards. Not to mention we were promised this with the current gen. It's past time for MS and Sony to deliver.

Boddicker

That's what I hope, too. I mean, they made such a big deal this gen about the "HD consoles", because the consoles' video outputs were capable of carrying a 1080p signal. Doesn't really mean sh!t, when the VAST majority of games aren't rendering at anywhere near 1080p, with most not even hitting 720p. Sony and Microsoft really should make it mandatory for all games on the next systems. If it's not rendering native 1080p, it doesn't get cleared to release. Take it back, turn down some effects, if needed, until it can render 1080p with a playable framerate. 1080p with less effects looks waaaaay better than 720p (or 540p, for that matter) with more effects.

I'd say it still warrants calling it a terrible port. :PI mean, that should nothave been something that a modder needed to "fix". A PC game with a locked resolution? I'm pretty sure that's completely unprecedented. The only excuse for why it didn't have resolution options available in the first place, is developer laziness on a legendary scale.

Edit: why do some of my posts come up with this tiny tiny font size? It's been happening with random posts every now and again for the last couple days. I don't get it. I'm not changing anything to make it that way, and I can't figure out how to fix it in an edit.

the_bi99man

But its not a feature of the port... and that is the point fend made. Maybe it isn't, but that is how I read his post anyway.

Yeah, that's why I put it on quote. For shame FromSoftware, hopefully they'll make it right with Dark Soul 2 (if it ever comes to the PC).rjdofu

It was announced for PC. Gamespot lists it as coming to PC, 360 and PS3.

At least now From has some experience with making a PC port. And the least they could do is look at how the mod works and try doing the same:P

Worst case scenario the community will fix it again.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

It definitely is. That's the point.

And the point I was getting at, is that it really shows how much resolution helps. Since nothing else was changed. The textures and other assets that are seen in the 1080p shot are all there in the first place. They're in the console versions. The detail is just buried because of the resolution. Those pics clearly show a massive, night and day difference, and the only thing changed in any way is an increase in resolution.

Also, the console versions/vanilla PC version aren't even in 720p. A little bit less. If you use DSfix and set the res to 1280x720, it still looks just a little better than vanilla.

R4gn4r0k

I agree with that. Resolution makes a lot of difference and the only people that can't see that are blind fanboys like shadowmoses and loosingENDS. Blind fanboys that will make a total 180 in their standpoints when their beloved console manufacturers make higher resolutions available. :lol:

The end result is all that matters, the "mod" was rather simple If i'm not wrong, it took the modder less than half an hour to release the fix.rjdofu

Of course the end result matters but fend was talking about the quality of the port. So I replied to that. The port, in itself, does not allow for higher resolutions than 720p. So it does not show a huge difference between 720p and 1080p like he claimed.

If you count the resolution fix mod than it's not 'one of the crappiest ports to hit the PC' anymore. Because that mod fixes the biggest problem the port had.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

[QUOTE="rjdofu"] The end result is all that matters, the "mod" was rather simple If i'm not wrong, it took the modder less than half an hour to release the fix.rjdofu

The way I understand it, it wasn't even really much of a "mod" in the traditional sense, since there were no assets changed, or even any engine tweaks. They just shipped the game with the resolution locked, like the console version, because they literally copy/pasted the 360 version for the PC. Which is also why the mouse/keyboard controls are... nonexistent, without another mod. But yeah, all the DSfix is, is a tiny tweak to unlock the resolution, the way every single PC game is. Something From Software could have done with absolutely no effort, in about 10 seconds, if they weren't extraordinarily lazy about the port.

I was under the impression that Dark Souls 2 was officially announced for 360, PS3, and PC, at its initial reveal. And yeah, if they're doing a PC version from the start, there is absolutely no excuse for that sh!t again (as if there was an excuse for it the first time around). Hopefully, the people at From have seen the DSfix, and realized how console graphics are holding back their own artistic ambitions, and they actually do a halfway decent PC version, with resolution options, >30 fps capability, and maybe even some HD texture options, AA and SSAO. Along with, of course, mouse/keyboard support, with on screen button prompts to match.

Yes, it is.

I don't even think HD is needed in games but developers keep pushing graphics because they know gamers are impressed by them.

It doesn't matter what TV you own, The thing that matters is how much the resolution is.
If the resolution of the game is 720p and you are playing it on a 1080p TV it won't magically make the game better or sharper, But in reverse it'll stretch the picture making it worse looking, Yes 1080p is needed in games (Even though i game on a resolution of 1280x1024)

Are you seriously asking this question or are you fapping off to all the ridicule and laughter you knew this thread would generate.

Just in case it's the former; yes. All next gen console games should be a mandatory 1080p. It's only been the TV standard for 10+ years and is already pathetic by PC standards. Not to mention we were promised this with the current gen. It's past time for MS and Sony to deliver.

Boddicker

That is what I'm hoping for too, when tablets and now phones with the recently announced Sony Xperia Z are outclassing consoles with resolutions you know you have a problem. I would like devs to aim for 1080 like they aimed for 720 this gen, but I wouldn't mind if a few demanding games go under 1080 slightly like some of the 540/640 type games went under 720 this gen.

I don't even think HD is needed in games but developers keep pushing graphics because they know gamers are impressed by them.

tryagainlater

That's because CGI movies are rendered by farms of computers, taking hours at a time to render a single scene. In other words, NOT REAL TIME. And to answer your question, yes, 1080p is absolutely needed. The difference between 720p and 1080p is night and day, for anyone who's not blind and/or trolling system wars. That's why all those CGI movies also look better in 1080p than 720p. Just like... literally everything looks better in 1080p than 720p. It's over twice as many pixels. It's not hard to understand. If the next Playstation and Xbox have ANY games that aren't being rendered in 1080p native... well that will just be beyond pathetic.

the_bi99man

But you dont asnwer my point

My point is that EVEN IF 1080p to 720p is night and day difference, the fact is that Avatar to games are 10.000 nights to 10.000.000 days difference

So, the point is that it is first a matter of closing the later difference, than the tiny 1080p to 720p (comparing, not absolute) difference, so you can actually have the best possible to show in 720p and THEN move to 1080p, if the picture is already at max quality

Otherwise why show garbage in 1080p, what is the point ? I prefer gold in 720p than garbage in 1080p

The difference of gold to garbage is far bigger than the 720p to 1080p one

And dont forget that garbage in 1080p looks 1000x more garbage than in 720p as well

What's the point in having high-rez assets like 2048 x 2048 textures and then a 720p screen resolution?

At some point, you have to move the resolution upwards aswell, else the details get lost. (kinda like going back to SD screens where you can't notice the finer details you do see on HD screens)

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

That's because CGI movies are rendered by farms of computers, taking hours at a time to render a single scene. In other words, NOT REAL TIME. And to answer your question, yes, 1080p is absolutely needed. The difference between 720p and 1080p is night and day, for anyone who's not blind and/or trolling system wars. That's why all those CGI movies also look better in 1080p than 720p. Just like... literally everything looks better in 1080p than 720p. It's over twice as many pixels. It's not hard to understand. If the next Playstation and Xbox have ANY games that aren't being rendered in 1080p native... well that will just be beyond pathetic.

loosingENDS

But you dont asnwer my point

My point is that EVEN IF 1080p to 720p is night and day difference, the fact is that Avatar to games are 10.000 nights to 10.000.000 days difference

So, the point is that it is first a matter of closing the later difference, than the tiny 1080p to 720p (comparing, not absolute) difference, so you can actually have the best possible to show in 720p and THEN move to 1080p, if the picture is already at max quality

Otherwise why show garbage in 1080p, what is the point ? I prefer gold in 720p than garbage in 1080p

The difference of gold to garbage is far bigger than the 720p to 1080p one

And dont forget that garbage in 1080p looks 1000x more garbage than in 720p as well

What's the point in having high-rez assets like 2048 x 2048 textures and then a 720p screen resolution?

At some point, you have to move the resolution upwards aswell, else the details get lost. (kinda like going back to SD screens where you can't notice the finer details you do see on HD screens)

nameless12345

But we are not ready for 1080p, the polygons counts etc reveal the nature of the fake world more than some exra texture detail would help you get immersed in it

That is the point

Certainly when you do reach Avatar polygon smoothness and rendering, with all effects on, then there is a point to see more detail in them

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

What's the point in having high-rez assets like 2048 x 2048 textures and then a 720p screen resolution?

At some point, you have to move the resolution upwards aswell, else the details get lost. (kinda like going back to SD screens where you can't notice the finer details you do see on HD screens)

loosingENDS

But we are not ready for 1080p, the polygons counts etc reveal the nature of the fake world more than some exra texture detail would help you get immersed in it

That is the point

Certainly when you do reach Avatar polygon smoothness and rendering, with all effects on, then there is a point to see more detail in them

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

What's the point in having high-rez assets like 2048 x 2048 textures and then a 720p screen resolution?

At some point, you have to move the resolution upwards aswell, else the details get lost. (kinda like going back to SD screens where you can't notice the finer details you do see on HD screens)

loosingENDS

But we are not ready for 1080p

Lol suddenly we are not ready for 1080p? What happened loosy? The damage control is too damn high.

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

What's the point in having high-rez assets like 2048 x 2048 textures and then a 720p screen resolution?

At some point, you have to move the resolution upwards aswell, else the details get lost. (kinda like going back to SD screens where you can't notice the finer details you do see on HD screens)

dramaybaz

But we are not ready for 1080p

Lol suddenly we are not ready for 1080p? What happened loosy? The damage control is too damn high.

:lol:

Here's 720 vs 1080

or

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

What's the point in having high-rez assets like 2048 x 2048 textures and then a 720p screen resolution?

At some point, you have to move the resolution upwards aswell, else the details get lost. (kinda like going back to SD screens where you can't notice the finer details you do see on HD screens)

loosingENDS

But we are not ready for 1080p, the polygons counts etc reveal the nature of the fake world more than some exra texture detail would help you get immersed in it

That is the point

Certainly when you do reach Avatar polygon smoothness and rendering, with all effects on, then there is a point to see more detail in them

Decently powerful PCs (i.e. Radeon HD 7770/GeForce GTX 460) handle 1080p and good detail in most games well.

High-rez textures are cheap if you have the V-RAM for them.

Current consoles have little RAM, hence washed-out textures.

V-RAM is important for higher resolutions too. (not as much as the GPU itself, obviously)

Poly-counts haven't really been improving that drastically in the last few years but now with DX11 hardware (GPU) tessellation things look better for the future.

We won't reach Avatar graphics for quite some time.

Even Toy Story is better than current graphics in some ways, still. (it uses NURBS aka true curved surfaces)

At best, you will see graphics like those in those Samaritan and Agni tech-demos, but even that is questionable since, obviously, they won't put GTX 680-level GPUs and many gigabytes of RAM in the next-gen consoles.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

That's because CGI movies are rendered by farms of computers, taking hours at a time to render a single scene. In other words, NOT REAL TIME. And to answer your question, yes, 1080p is absolutely needed. The difference between 720p and 1080p is night and day, for anyone who's not blind and/or trolling system wars. That's why all those CGI movies also look better in 1080p than 720p. Just like... literally everything looks better in 1080p than 720p. It's over twice as many pixels. It's not hard to understand. If the next Playstation and Xbox have ANY games that aren't being rendered in 1080p native... well that will just be beyond pathetic.

loosingENDS

But you dont asnwer my point

My point is that EVEN IF 1080p to 720p is night and day difference, the fact is that Avatar to games are 10.000 nights to 10.000.000 days difference

So, the point is that it is first a matter of closing the later difference, than the tiny 1080p to 720p (comparing, not absolute) difference, so you can actually have the best possible to show in 720p and THEN move to 1080p, if the picture is already at max quality

Otherwise why show garbage in 1080p, what is the point ? I prefer gold in 720p than garbage in 1080p

The difference of gold to garbage is far bigger than the 720p to 1080p one

And dont forget that garbage in 1080p looks 1000x more garbage than in 720p as well

I totally did answer the point. Comparing CGI movies to video games can't be done. Video games have to be rendered in real time, first and foremost. And, since they're being rendered in real time, resolution matters far more. A modern CGI movie still looks good in 720p, because it's being downscaled to that when it gets put on the disc and/or rendered to a digital video file. The original video, as it was actually rendered by the rendering farms, is a much, much higher resolution. Like, far beyond even 1080p. Also, keep in mind that, even though a modern GCI movie, looks good in 720p, it looks better in 1080p. Just like everything. It's easier to compare to regular filmed video. Notice how even an old SD movie, played from a VHS, can show more detail than a video game being rendered in an equally low resolution (like 640x480). It's because the source material is real life.

And they should be moving to 1080p sooner rather than later, because resolution is one of the biggest factors in making the core graphics look better (garbage to gold, as you might put it). They can't make 720p games look much better at this point. It would be meaningless to, because the low resolution will just hide the extra detail, as demonstrated beautifully by the Dark Souls comparison gif someone posted on the other page. Resolution has to be increased alongside the other aspects of graphics, or else it bottlenecks the potential. This can be demonstrated easily with just about any PC game, with a good range of graphics options. Medium settings and 1080p looks better than high settings and 720p. Because, at 720p, the differences between medium and high are negligible. You have to increase the resolution to see the difference in the higher settings elsewhere.

As for your last comment, that's simply not true. What you're talking about is the stretching that you see when a low resolution game is played on a high resolution display. Like how, if you plug an N64 into a modern HDTV, it looks worse than if it's plugged into an old SDTV, from its time. That's because the display resolution is being increased, but the render resolution is not. When you actually have access to change the render resolution (PC games), it is absolutely impossible for higher resolution to look worse than lower. Even if it's an old game that doesn't have that high-end core graphics like modern games, 1920x1080 looks better than 1280x720, just like 1280x1024 looks better than 1024x768, which looks better than 800x600.

I'll just throw this in here too compression and low resolution hurts quality and detail

Onlive

My pc at 1680x1050

Never mind 1080p and 720p, let's go back to 480 and do avatar graphics!:shock:

Never mind 1080p and 720p, let's go back to 480 and do avatar graphics!:shock:

Bebi_vegeta

lol at loosingENDS for trying to act like he knows what he is talking about :lol:

Is 720p really needed in games ?

I mean shouldnt every inch of power go to make games look closer to CGI in 240p, than have mediocre graphics in 720p ?

call_of_duty_10

This should've been where the thread ends lmao.