Is 1080p really needed in games ?

[QUOTE="iamrob7"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

savagetwinkie

Your pictures are not identical, one is far smaller than the other and the second picture is being squeezed also. For a comparison you need two shots 1080p size with the 720p shot upscaled to 1080p so they are the same size. That's how it works, try again.

Well to be fair, you didn't post any 1080p shoots.

After I am done compressing a video I can do a 1080P vs 720P comparison with Assassins Creed 3.

The best way to see the difference is to take both screenshots and make them into a gif file that switches back and forth.

Higher resolutions will make a bigger difference when the scene being renedered has lots of fine details.

If the game is not that detailed then the difference won't be as large.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="iamrob7"]

Your pictures are not identical, one is far smaller than the other and the second picture is being squeezed also. For a comparison you need two shots 1080p size with the 720p shot upscaled to 1080p so they are the same size. That's how it works, try again.

faizan_faizan

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="iamrob7"]

Your pictures are not identical, one is far smaller than the other and the second picture is being squeezed also. For a comparison you need two shots 1080p size with the 720p shot upscaled to 1080p so they are the same size. That's how it works, try again.

Bebi_vegeta

Well to be fair, you didn't post any 1080p shoots.

Edit: i just noticed tiny pic downsacled it also ;(

An upscaled image is a modified image and is isn't a proper comparison if you trying to see how much detail is lost with 720p, upscaling it is completly invalidates the comparison. upscaled images can get smeared and appear to lose extra details depending on the TV, so again its a bad way to compare the imagesavagetwinkie

If you use photoshop it has a proper upscaling algorithm that will match the best of the best in what a TV can do with upscaling.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] An upscaled image is a modified image and is isn't a proper comparison if you trying to see how much detail is lost with 720p, upscaling it is completly invalidates the comparison. upscaled images can get smeared and appear to lose extra details depending on the TV, so again its a bad way to compare the imageRyviusARC

If you use photoshop it has a proper upscaling algorithm that will match the best of the best in what a TV can do with upscaling.

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="Ben-Buja"]

Probably using Sweet FX as well. Still proves the point that going 1080P makes a big difference, even when the graphics basically stay the same. Hell, even Gamecube games look pretty good at 1080P.

Bebi_vegeta

Then why is 720p even considered the mininal... since you gave your example of COD4 being 600p and looking superior to COD2 720p ?

has any one taken a a PC game and taken a 720p picture then just turn it up to 1080p. So far I've seen a 480i image compared with 1080p image on an emulator, probably with extra settings A possible 720p picture that has washed out colors compared to a 1080p with better color, and what looks like heavier AFsavagetwinkie

Here's a Crysis 2 image. One was captured at 720p, opened with Paintshop Pro, and previewed fullscreen at 1080p. Then I made another screen capture of the preview at 1080p. The second image is 1080p native:

To view full-size of each, Right-Click, View Image.

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] An upscaled image is a modified image and is isn't a proper comparison if you trying to see how much detail is lost with 720p, upscaling it is completly invalidates the comparison. upscaled images can get smeared and appear to lose extra details depending on the TV, so again its a bad way to compare the imagesavagetwinkie

That's half the point we're all trying to make, 1080p tvs are all there is going to be pretty soon, and as was pointed out, photoshop upscaling is going to match the best upscaling that the expensive sets have.

In other words all next gen console games are going to look like a smeary mess if they stick with 720p native unless you go ebay shopping for an old set.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]has any one taken a a PC game and taken a 720p picture then just turn it up to 1080p. So far I've seen a 480i image compared with 1080p image on an emulator, probably with extra settings A possible 720p picture that has washed out colors compared to a 1080p with better color, and what looks like heavier AFjun_aka_pekto

Here's a Crysis 2 image. One was captured at 720p, opened with Paintshop Pro, and previewed fullscreen at 1080p. Then I made another screen capture of the preview at 1080p. The second image is 1080p native:

To view full-size of each, Right-Click, View Image.

I posted two skyrim pics already, though I meant to say compare it to 720p, the upscaling process smears the image.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]has any one taken a a PC game and taken a 720p picture then just turn it up to 1080p. So far I've seen a 480i image compared with 1080p image on an emulator, probably with extra settings A possible 720p picture that has washed out colors compared to a 1080p with better color, and what looks like heavier AFjun_aka_pekto

Here's a Crysis 2 image. One was captured at 720p, opened with Paintshop Pro, and previewed fullscreen at 1080p. Then I made another screen capture of the preview at 1080p. The second image is 1080p native:

To view full-size of each, Right-Click, View Image.

[QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]has any one taken a a PC game and taken a 720p picture then just turn it up to 1080p. So far I've seen a 480i image compared with 1080p image on an emulator, probably with extra settings A possible 720p picture that has washed out colors compared to a 1080p with better color, and what looks like heavier AFCranler

Here's a Crysis 2 image. One was captured at 720p, opened with Paintshop Pro, and previewed fullscreen at 1080p. Then I made another screen capture of the preview at 1080p. The second image is 1080p native:

To view full-size of each, Right-Click, View Image.

Crysis 2 is a bad game to use as the default antialiasing already makes it blurry as hell.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="faizan_faizan"] You mean the imagery (720p) a 1080p TV shows is actually modified?topgunmv

That's half the point we're all trying to make, 1080p tvs are all there is going to be pretty soon, and as was pointed out, photoshop upscaling is going to match the best upscaling that the expensive sets have.

In other words all next gen console games are going to look like a smeary mess if they stick with 720p native unless you go ebay shopping for an old set.

I don't really care. Doesn't really matter to me what resolution my games are playing at. I don't even know what resolution my Wii, PS3 and 360 are at.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="faizan_faizan"] You mean the imagery (720p) a 1080p TV shows is actually modified?topgunmv

That's half the point we're all trying to make, 1080p tvs are all there is going to be pretty soon, and as was pointed out, photoshop upscaling is going to match the best upscaling that the expensive sets have.

In other words all next gen console games are going to look like a smeary mess if they stick with 720p native unless you go ebay shopping for an old set.

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"]

Here's a Crysis 2 image. One was captured at 720p, opened with Paintshop Pro, and previewed fullscreen at 1080p. Then I made another screen capture of the preview at 1080p. The second image is 1080p native:

To view full-size of each, Right-Click, View Image.

topgunmv

Crysis 2 is a bad game to use as the default antialiasing already makes it blurry as hell.

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="Cranler"] This is a proper representation of the differeence between 720p and 1080p than that ridiculous Dark Souls gif or that kiddy game. Big question here is would a consolite rather have the 60fps at 720p or 30 at 1080p? Or 720p, 30fps and use that extra performance to improve the lighting, shadows, particle fx, tesselation etc?Cranler

Crysis 2 is a bad game to use as the default antialiasing already makes it blurry as hell.

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] yes, its run through algorithms to guess the missing pixels when up scaling the image. A 1080p TV has 1920x1080 pixels on it, the 720p sets have 1280x720 pixels.Cranler

That's half the point we're all trying to make, 1080p tvs are all there is going to be pretty soon, and as was pointed out, photoshop upscaling is going to match the best upscaling that the expensive sets have.

In other words all next gen console games are going to look like a smeary mess if they stick with 720p native unless you go ebay shopping for an old set.

Incorrect, some channels are 1080i, unless you're referring to over air broadcast in which case I have no idea.

On the 5 or 6 1080p sets that I've played console games on ranging from big to small, cheap to expensive, none have looked as good as a native 720p set, they've all had the signature blurring effect (I suppose some people might consider that an increase in quality though, similar to a post process AA filter).

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] yes, its run through algorithms to guess the missing pixels when up scaling the image. A 1080p TV has 1920x1080 pixels on it, the 720p sets have 1280x720 pixels.Cranler

That's half the point we're all trying to make, 1080p tvs are all there is going to be pretty soon, and as was pointed out, photoshop upscaling is going to match the best upscaling that the expensive sets have.

In other words all next gen console games are going to look like a smeary mess if they stick with 720p native unless you go ebay shopping for an old set.

OK so now you're just lying. How do you propose the TV scalar can reproduce the missing information? Magic? Upscaling algorythmsbcan only do so much, therefore, no, a 720p image will NOT look "identical" to a 1080p one.

It's great to have, but ultimately not necessary.

It's great to have, but ultimately not necessary.

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="topgunmv"]

That's half the point we're all trying to make, 1080p tvs are all there is going to be pretty soon, and as was pointed out, photoshop upscaling is going to match the best upscaling that the expensive sets have.

In other words all next gen console games are going to look like a smeary mess if they stick with 720p native unless you go ebay shopping for an old set.

Kinthalis

OK so now you're just lying. How do you propose the TV scalar can reproduce the missing information? Magic? Upscaling algorythmsbcan only do so much, therefore, no, a 720p image will NOT look "identical" to a 1080p one.

and its still wrong if you want to see the change in detail in the two different resolutions. Your processing the image and guessing what colors the missing pixels are supposed to be its going to savagetwinkie

It's the best way it can be done though.

And the algorithm will be the best.

You might find an equal on TV but nothing will be more accurate.

Showing one image in 720P then another in 1080P won't do well enough.

The only other option is to set your monitor to match the resolution of each but that still doesn't beat upscaling it in photoshop then putting both images in some gif format to switch between them.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]has any one taken a a PC game and taken a 720p picture then just turn it up to 1080p. So far I've seen a 480i image compared with 1080p image on an emulator, probably with extra settings A possible 720p picture that has washed out colors compared to a 1080p with better color, and what looks like heavier AFjun_aka_pekto

Here's a Crysis 2 image. One was captured at 720p, opened with Paintshop Pro, and previewed fullscreen at 1080p. Then I made another screen capture of the preview at 1080p. The second image is 1080p native:

To view full-size of each, Right-Click, View Image.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="faizan_faizan"] You mean the imagery (720p) a 1080p TV shows is actually modified?topgunmv

That's half the point we're all trying to make, 1080p tvs are all there is going to be pretty soon, and as was pointed out, photoshop upscaling is going to match the best upscaling that the expensive sets have.

In other words all next gen console games are going to look like a smeary mess if they stick with 720p native unless you go ebay shopping for an old set.

What about all the 4k TVs in production?

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] yes, its run through algorithms to guess the missing pixels when up scaling the image. A 1080p TV has 1920x1080 pixels on it, the 720p sets have 1280x720 pixels.NoodleFighter

That's half the point we're all trying to make, 1080p tvs are all there is going to be pretty soon, and as was pointed out, photoshop upscaling is going to match the best upscaling that the expensive sets have.

In other words all next gen console games are going to look like a smeary mess if they stick with 720p native unless you go ebay shopping for an old set.

What about all the 4k TVs in production?

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]and its still wrong if you want to see the change in detail in the two different resolutions. Your processing the image and guessing what colors the missing pixels are supposed to be its going to RyviusARC

It's the best way it can be done though.

And the algorithm will be the best.

You might find an equal on TV but nothing will be more accurate.

Showing one image in 720P then another in 1080P won't do well enough.

The only other option is to set your monitor to match the resolution of each but that still doesn't beat upscaling it in photoshop then putting both images in some gif format to switch between them.

[QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]has any one taken a a PC game and taken a 720p picture then just turn it up to 1080p. So far I've seen a 480i image compared with 1080p image on an emulator, probably with extra settings A possible 720p picture that has washed out colors compared to a 1080p with better color, and what looks like heavier AFCali3350

Here's a Crysis 2 image. One was captured at 720p, opened with Paintshop Pro, and previewed fullscreen at 1080p. Then I made another screen capture of the preview at 1080p. The second image is 1080p native:

To view full-size of each, Right-Click, View Image.

Yes indeed. Just like when you take a small image and increase the resolution it gets grainy, pixelized, etc... The only way to avoid this is to have source image match the display resolution then it fits pixel:pixel. No little chip inside my tv or game console with less processing power than my 4 year old blackberry then won't have to decide, "hmmmm how do I make this 1280x720 image fit into a space of 1920x1080."

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] yes, its run through algorithms to guess the missing pixels when up scaling the image. A 1080p TV has 1920x1080 pixels on it, the 720p sets have 1280x720 pixels.NoodleFighter

That's half the point we're all trying to make, 1080p tvs are all there is going to be pretty soon, and as was pointed out, photoshop upscaling is going to match the best upscaling that the expensive sets have.

In other words all next gen console games are going to look like a smeary mess if they stick with 720p native unless you go ebay shopping for an old set.

What about all the 4k TVs in production?

I think people are idiots for buying them unless they plan on hooking it up to a computer.

Pft 720p is too fancy, I mean do we really need anything better than a res of 1x1 to play games?

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

That's half the point we're all trying to make, 1080p tvs are all there is going to be pretty soon, and as was pointed out, photoshop upscaling is going to match the best upscaling that the expensive sets have.

In other words all next gen console games are going to look like a smeary mess if they stick with 720p native unless you go ebay shopping for an old set.

topgunmv

What about all the 4k TVs in production?

I think people are idiots for buying them unless they plan on hooking it up to a computer.

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

That's half the point we're all trying to make, 1080p tvs are all there is going to be pretty soon, and as was pointed out, photoshop upscaling is going to match the best upscaling that the expensive sets have.

In other words all next gen console games are going to look like a smeary mess if they stick with 720p native unless you go ebay shopping for an old set.

topgunmv

What about all the 4k TVs in production?

I think people are idiots for buying them unless they plan on hooking it up to a computer.

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

What about all the 4k TVs in production?

Cranler

I think people are idiots for buying them unless they plan on hooking it up to a computer.

You'd only be right if you meant eyefinity or nvidia surround. These cards are crazy http://hardocp.com/article/2012/12/04/gtx_680_vs_radeon_hd_7970_multidisplay_showdown/1 . That setup with a single monitor at 1920x1200 would probably be solid 60fps if not more on every single game they ran. If not using resolutions like 5760x1200.

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

What about all the 4k TVs in production?

fernandmondego_

I think people are idiots for buying them unless they plan on hooking it up to a computer.

They are? Like what?

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="Cranler"] No way is that bottom pic 720p. This isnt about a straight comparison of 720p vs 1080p. Its about using all the power at you disposal on fixed hardware, 720p could have better lighting, shadows draw distance etc than the same game on the same hardware at 1080p/Cranler

Then why is 720p even considered the mininal... since you gave your example of COD4 being 600p and looking superior to COD2 720p ?

Hey you're the one who mentionned 600p...

[QUOTE="fernandmondego_"][QUOTE="topgunmv"]

I think people are idiots for buying them unless they plan on hooking it up to a computer.

topgunmv

They are? Like what?

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Then why is 720p even considered the mininal... since you gave your example of COD4 being 600p and looking superior to COD2 720p ?

Bebi_vegeta

Hey you're the one who mentionned 600p...

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

What about all the 4k TVs in production?

Cranler

I think people are idiots for buying them unless they plan on hooking it up to a computer.

http://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

Is it final that the next-gen consoles will have games only at 720p? I would think some of the more "shallow" games (eg Bulletstorm-type games) will be able to run at 1080p smoothly enough (not necessarily at 60 fps).

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="topgunmv"]

I think people are idiots for buying them unless they plan on hooking it up to a computer.

04dcarraher

http://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

Is it final that the next-gen consoles will have games only at 720p? I would think some of the more "shallow" games (eg Bulletstorm-type games) will be able to run at 1080p smoothly enough (not necessarily at 60 fps).

jun_aka_pekto

Is it final that the next-gen consoles will have games only at 720p? I would think some of the more "shallow" games (eg Bulletstorm-type games) will be able to run at 1080p smoothly enough (not necessarily at 60 fps).

jun_aka_pekto

I hope at the start they aim for 1920x1080@60fps minimum. If it dips below 60fps occasionally that's not big deal. I'd rather late into next console gen developers have to start dialing some effects down to get more of another effect in or vice versa. The technology exists to do it right now. So it would be nice to at least start off not much behind the pc.

Look at these frame rates guys http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/508?vs=555 . In batman arkham city at 1920x1200 at extreme quality and 4xaa both cards are over 90fps average. Cheaper cards aren't much slower.

For the consoles to settle for less would just suck. I like my ps3 and will probably get a ps4 so I'm hoping for great looking games with minimal upscaling.

[QUOTE="fernandmondego_"][QUOTE="topgunmv"]

I think people are idiots for buying them unless they plan on hooking it up to a computer.

topgunmv

They are? Like what?

Isn't there 4k blu ray in the works?

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="fernandmondego_"]Why not? They are about to start getting a ton of content for it soon.NoodleFighter

They are? Like what?

Isn't there 4k blu ray in the works?

Bluray is just the disc media. You can put whatever type of video you want on a bluray. Now for it to play on a blurray player it needs to be using codecs that the player understands, but as long as the codec allows for the resolution of 4k and the decoder inside the bluray player can decode it fast enough sure why not.

The only other issue is the size the video must actually fit on the disc. I dunno how much a 4k resolution video in h.264@ 3 hours takes up for size. My guess would be 50gb or so just randomly throwing that out there.

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="topgunmv"]

That's half the point we're all trying to make, 1080p tvs are all there is going to be pretty soon, and as was pointed out, photoshop upscaling is going to match the best upscaling that the expensive sets have.

In other words all next gen console games are going to look like a smeary mess if they stick with 720p native unless you go ebay shopping for an old set.

topgunmv

Incorrect, some channels are 1080i, unless you're referring to over air broadcast in which case I have no idea.

On the 5 or 6 1080p sets that I've played console games on ranging from big to small, cheap to expensive, none have looked as good as a native 720p set, they've all had the signature blurring effect (I suppose some people might consider that an increase in quality though, similar to a post process AA filter).

[QUOTE="NoodleFighter"]

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

They are? Like what?

Exxite

Isn't there 4k blu ray in the works?

Bluray is just the disc media. You can put whatever type of video you want on a bluray. Now for it to play on a blurray player it needs to be using codecs that the player understands, but as long as the codec allows for the resolution of 4k and the decoder inside the bluray player can decode it fast enough sure why not.

The only other issue is the size the video must actually fit on the disc. I dunno how much a 4k resolution video in h.264@ 3 hours takes up for size. My guess would be 50gb or so just randomly throwing that out there.

Well what I actually meant was that 4k versions of movies for Blu ray are in the works and some are coming out this year like the Amazing Spiderman, The Other Guys, Total Recall, Battle: Los Angeles