inFamous: Second Son Hardware Performance

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#1 Edited by BluRayHiDef (10837 posts) -

I've had the game since last Friday and notice that while the game looks amazing, it often dips into the mid thirties during battles. Why is this? Is the PS4 not powerful enough to run the game at a constant 40 FPS? How can we expect titles to look better and run better in the future if it can't handle a game released in its first year? Keep in mind that there isn't much room for optimization since the PS4 is structured like a PC and is subsequently quite easy to code for. What gives?

#2 Posted by Nike_Air (18250 posts) -

I told you not to get the game , in my mind at least.

#3 Posted by BluRayHiDef (10837 posts) -

@Nike_Air:

By no means do I regret getting the game; I absolutely love it. Heck, the frame rate drops aren't even game breaking. I'm just wondering about them, that's all.

#4 Edited by lundy86_4 (42650 posts) -

Yeah, you need to explain your optimization point in some detail. You seem to gloss over it. I'll give the benefit of the doubt in assuming that you have intricate experience.

Overall, who knows?

#5 Edited by BluRayHiDef (10837 posts) -

@lundy86_4 said:

Yeah, you need to explain your optimization point in some detail. You seem to gloss over it. I'll give the benefit of the doubt in assuming that you have intricate experience.

Overall, who knows?

The game is known to run at 30 FPS. Based on that I assume that when it looks smooth, it's running at that frame rate. However, during battles it becomes a bit choppy, so I've deduced that it drops into the twenties.

#6 Posted by lundy86_4 (42650 posts) -

The game is known to run at 30 FPS, and based on that I assume that when it looks smooth, it's running at that frame rate. However, during battles, it becomes a bit choppy, so I've deduced that it drops into the twenties.

I was referring to the point in which you specifically referenced optimization, due to it being structured like a PC.

#7 Posted by BluRayHiDef (10837 posts) -

@BluRayHiDef said:

The game is known to run at 30 FPS, and based on that I assume that when it looks smooth, it's running at that frame rate. However, during battles, it becomes a bit choppy, so I've deduced that it drops into the twenties.

I was referring to the point in which you specifically referenced optimization, due to it being structured like a PC.

This was explained during the E3 at which the PS4 was unveiled.

#8 Posted by 2mrw (4957 posts) -

The game is getting an update to lock the frame rate at 30.

#9 Edited by lundy86_4 (42650 posts) -

@BluRayHiDef said:

This was explained during the E3 at which the PS4 was unveiled.

Could you link this?

So, it was referenced that there wasn't much room for optimization due to PC architecture similarities? I'm getting zero Google results.

#10 Posted by Nonstop-Madness (9466 posts) -
  • Optimization doesn't work like that.
  • Second Son doesn't often dip into the mid 20s during battles. There are frame rate tests you can find on the web supporting this.
  • The game runs between 30-40fps for the vast majority of the time. (Low 30s in battles).
#11 Posted by BluRayHiDef (10837 posts) -

  • Optimization doesn't work like that.
  • Second Son doesn't often dip into the mid 20s during battles. There are frame rate tests you can find on the web supporting this.
  • The game runs between 30-40fps for the vast majority of the time. (Low 30s in battles).

I guess I confused low 30s with low 20s. The point is that it becomes choppy during battles.

#12 Edited by Mkavanaugh77 (20730 posts) -

Second Soin would be a solid 60fps if it was on the XboxOne.

#13 Posted by Mkavanaugh77 (20730 posts) -

Son^^

#14 Posted by m3dude1 (824 posts) -

I've had the game since last Friday and notice that while the game looks amazing, it often dips into the mid twenties during battles. Why is this? Is the PS4 not powerful enough to run the game at a constant 30 FPS? How can we expect titles to look better and run better in the future if it can't handle a game released in its first year? Keep in mind that there isn't much room for optimization since the PS4 is structured like a PC and is subsequently quite easy to code for. What gives?

not much room for optimization? lol

#16 Posted by Mkavanaugh77 (20730 posts) -

pretty sure the tc aint a lemming

#17 Edited by 04dcarraher (18957 posts) -

Here is the problem the PS4 cant keep a stable framerate with the resolution and graphical effects it renders. The game can dip into the 20's if you intentionally do quick 180s while on top of a building for example. Problem with the fps fluctuating is that one moment you can be getting 45-50 fps then all of a sudden it dips into the low 30's and into the 20's that is where you see the stutter or lag from the sudden drops. Same thing happens with BF4 and Tomb Raider, the main culprit is the weak cpu but it is also the demand they put on the gpu and putting alot of work onto the cpu to supply the data it needs .

The PS4 is not a power house its only packing an AMD 1.6 ghz 8 core cpu where two cores are allocated to OS and features leaving only 6 cores for games and the processor's architecture is slower then an Athlon 2 from 5 years ago. Then has a modified GCN gpu roughly equal to a 265 series gpu or even a downclocked 7870. And has to put up with a slow 5400 rpm laptop harddrive.

Optimization is not end all be all in allowing hardware to perform better then what the hardware allows, in optimization there's always sacrifices made to allow something else to take the spot light.

The key is to get the perfect balance between performance and fidelity. But the demands for the PS4 to outshine the X1 somewhat forcing them to use 1080 native resolutions when they should be using 900p or even 720 for max performance while able to bump some other asset's quality abit higher.

#18 Posted by GrenadeLauncher (3191 posts) -

It runs at around 40fps most of the time. Sucker Punch are patching in a locked 30fps option soon if you want to wait.

#19 Edited by lostrib (31574 posts) -

According to DF:

"InFamous: Second Son spends much of its time between 30-40fps during gameplay - those additional frames over 30fps manifesting more as judder as opposed to a significantly smoother experience."

#20 Edited by 04dcarraher (18957 posts) -
@GrenadeLauncher said:

It runs at around 40fps most of the time. Sucker Punch are patching in a locked 30fps option soon if you want to wait.

developers need to lock fps if the hardware isnt able to handle stable framerates, but they need to stop the 1080 resolution buzz requirement just to look better than MS. If they would drop the resolution to 1600x900 they would be able to gain 25-30% increase in fps averages. making 40 average into the upper 40's to lower 50's.

#21 Posted by kalipekona (2296 posts) -

@lostrib said:

According to DF:

"InFamous: Second Son spends much of its time between 30-40fps during gameplay - those additional frames over 30fps manifesting more as judder as opposed to a significantly smoother experience."

It's stupid that some devs are giving in to this demand for 60fps by simply uncapping the framerate of essentially 30fps games. This doesn't result in a smoother game. Every console game that runs at 30fps would run at a higher fluctuating framerate if you uncapped the framerate, but developers usually never do this because they know the value of a steady, consistent framerate.

I mean, most of the time it is only a few frames above 30fps during gameplay so it's not like it's going to add any additional smoothness. All it does is result in an irregular framerate with lots of judder.

#23 Posted by Epic-gamerz (196 posts) -

@kalipekona: a few fps above 30 does indeed feel smoother. Try turning on/off the 30fps lock in Killzone it visually looks and feels better a few fps above 30

#24 Edited by ronvalencia (15109 posts) -

@BluRayHiDef said:

I've had the game since last Friday and notice that while the game looks amazing, it often dips into the mid twenties during battles. Why is this? Is the PS4 not powerful enough to run the game at a constant 30 FPS? How can we expect titles to look better and run better in the future if it can't handle a game released in its first year? Keep in mind that there isn't much room for optimization since the PS4 is structured like a PC and is subsequently quite easy to code for. What gives?

PC has a sizeable room for software optimization e.g. AMD Mantle vs MS DirectX11.2 for just the runtime optimizations.

Another example, read http://timothylottes.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/notes-on-amd-gcn-isa.html

Changing Materials the GCN Way

DX and GL are years behind in API design compared to what is possible on GCN. For instance there is no need for the CPU to do any binding for a traditional material system with unique shaders/textures/samplers/buffers associated with geometry. Going to the metal on GCN, it would be trivial to pass a 32-bit index from the vertex shader to the pixel shader, then use the 32-bit index and S_BUFFER_LOAD_DWORDX16 to get constants, samplers, textures, buffers, and shaders associated with the material. Do a S_SETPC to branch to the proper shader.

This kind of system would use a set of uber-shaders grouped by material shader register usage. So all objects sharing a given uber-shader can get drawn in say one draw call (draw as many views as you have GPU perf for). No need for traditional vertex attributes either, again just one S_SETPC branch in the vertex shader and manually fetch what is needed from buffers or textures.

#25 Posted by ronvalencia (15109 posts) -

Here is the problem the PS4 cant keep a stable framerate with the resolution and graphical effects it renders. The game can dip into the 20's if you intentionally do quick 180s while on top of a building for example. Problem with the fps fluctuating is that one moment you can be getting 45-50 fps then all of a sudden it dips into the low 30's and into the 20's that is where you see the stutter or lag from the sudden drops. Same thing happens with BF4 and Tomb Raider, the main culprit is the weak cpu but it is also the demand they put on the gpu and putting alot of work onto the cpu to supply the data it needs .

The PS4 is not a power house its only packing an AMD 1.6 ghz 8 core cpu where two cores are allocated to OS and features leaving only 6 cores for games and the processor's architecture is slower then an Athlon 2 from 5 years ago. Then has a modified GCN gpu roughly equal to a 265 series gpu or even a downclocked 7870. And has to put up with a slow 5400 rpm laptop harddrive.

Optimization is not end all be all in allowing hardware to perform better then what the hardware allows, in optimization there's always sacrifices made to allow something else to take the spot light.

The key is to get the perfect balance between performance and fidelity. But the demands for the PS4 to outshine the X1 somewhat forcing them to use 1080 native resolutions when they should be using 900p or even 720 for max performance while able to bump some other asset's quality abit higher.

PC DirectX doesn't have access to GCN CU's scalar processor, which reduces the CPU dependency. PS4's GCN has 18 scalar processors at 800Mhz.

#27 Posted by Mkavanaugh77 (20730 posts) -

@GrenadeLauncherSo it runs at 40 fps but a patch will make it run at 30fps?

isnt that a downgrade?

#28 Posted by lamprey263 (22430 posts) -

well, maybe they could have achieved it by dropping the resolution some, but cows would have screamed bloody murder if that happened

#29 Edited by Spartan070 (16307 posts) -

How can we expect titles to look better and run better in the future if it can't handle a game released in its first year?

PS3 launch titles ----> year 5-6 into the gen.

Massive difference, you're assuming the PS4 is tapping out on Infamous

#30 Posted by Mkavanaugh77 (20730 posts) -

Games for the xbox and Ps4 will get better overtime like the 360 and Ps3 games got better, lke Gears Of War, Uncharted, Forza, Last Of Us.

#31 Posted by GrenadeLauncher (3191 posts) -

@GrenadeLauncherSo it runs at 40 fps but a patch will make it run at 30fps?

isnt that a downgrade?

Wind your neck in, lemming. Unlike with the Xbone's SD resolution and slideshow framerates, it's optional.

#32 Edited by BattleSpectre (5952 posts) -
@epic-gamerz said:

lol desperate Lems starting rumors.

Second Son runs at 30+ fps 1080p open world with the Damm best lighting, teh Foliage, Anti-Aliasing, particle effects ever not possible on the Xflop nOne

I still need to get Second Son, but regarding your Anti-Aliasing comment I hope it's true. Because from all the gameplay vids I've seen (and YouTube's compression should hide the imperfections) I've noticed quite a bit of jaggies in the distance and on objects.

If you meant compared to the Xbox One this is the best you can get, than I understand your point and what you were trying to say.

#33 Posted by Mkavanaugh77 (20730 posts) -

are the flops(Killzone/Knack) optional too?

#34 Posted by 04dcarraher (18957 posts) -

@BluRayHiDef said:

How can we expect titles to look better and run better in the future if it can't handle a game released in its first year?

PS3 launch titles ----> year 5-6 into the gen.

Massive difference, you're assuming the PS4 is tapping out on Infamous

lol lets just ignore that PS3's Cell was under utilized for years and when developers started using the Cell's SPE's to do extra gpu workloads that's where you got the extra gains. PS4 does not have any secret sauce or is being under utilized like the PS3 was.... all the hardware is being tapped out from the get go the only thing they can do is make the allocation of the resources to be more efficient and that will still not allow the differences some are expecting.

#35 Posted by 04dcarraher (18957 posts) -

@04dcarraher: Thanks for your paragraphs's. Now a reminder to you. PS4 is the most powerful console there ever was. Fact

Fact is in the grand scheme of thinsg the PS4 is weak as hell for a console compared to pc gaming from even two years ago.

#36 Posted by XboxDone74 (2047 posts) -

The game has never dipped into the mid twenties.

show some proof. Otherwise, confirmed jelly of ps4 and Second Son.

#37 Edited by Shewgenja (7938 posts) -

Oh look, OP made up fucking bullshit.

#38 Edited by AppleFan1991 (3022 posts) -

@xboxdone74: @Shewgenja: or you guys could calm down. OP assumed since the game runs at 30FPS that it's dipping down into the 20's. He was unaware that it actually runs in the 40's and dips down into the 30's during battles. There's no need to attack him or call him jelly or some other BS.

#39 Posted by BluRayHiDef (10837 posts) -

@xboxdone74: @Shewgenja: or you guys could calm down. OP assumed since the game runs at 30th that it's dipping down into the 20's. He was unaware that it actually runs in the 40's and dips down into the 30's during battles. There's no need to attack him or call him jelly or some other BS.

Exactly. I mean, how can I be jelly of my own console and game, both of which I bought with my own hard earned money? C'mon, son. C'mon.

#40 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (5885 posts) -

Ha, the dude is questioning the PS4's power. What power?

#41 Edited by Twizded (96 posts) -

I never noticed any frame rate dips while playing. Was impressed by how smooth it ran.

#42 Edited by Shewgenja (7938 posts) -

Maybe because Digital Foundry has already looked at this title? You'd have to be a simple bitch NOT to find the framerate for this game since it was put through the fanboy gauntlet for maximum butthurt.

#43 Posted by always_explicit (2628 posts) -

Oh look, OP made up fucking bullshit.

He didnt make it up. He said he noticed a visible frame rate drop during battles in a game he owns. His only mistake was saying that it drops into the 20's when actually its 30's. He was also humble enough to admit that he was wrong and that its must have been 30's not 20's which is something perfectly forgivable and reasonable considering he doesnt have a built in FPS counter in his eyeballs.

This led on to a reasonably interesting thread about PS4 frame rates and the benefit of locked FPS over unlocked FPS. Interestingly the only real "bullshit" in this thread was your rude comment which contributed absolutely zero to the conversation.

Its okay to love your console of choice and still be critical of its performance! You dont have to call people out.

On topic: The pressure on Sony to maintain the graphical edge over the X1 means they are constantly aiming for as many FPS at the highest resolution possible....which is fine on paper. Unfortunately sometimes this does result in a choppy framerate.

Ideally I would prefer a locked 30FPS with performance consistency

#44 Edited by BluRayHiDef (10837 posts) -

The game has never dipped into the mid twenties.

show some proof. Otherwise, confirmed jelly of ps4 and Second Son.

How can I be jealous of a system and game that I own? If you look at the following video, you'll see the PS4 resting to my left (your right).

#45 Edited by ReadingRainbow4 (12804 posts) -

ps4, dips into the 30's.

xbone, drops into the teens.

#46 Posted by misterpmedia (3362 posts) -

Second Soin would be a solid 60fps if it was on the XboxOne.

in 360p

#47 Edited by I_can_haz (6459 posts) -

Edit your thread OP. The game never dips to the 20s. It runs mostly into the 40s and dips into the 30s according to DF.

#48 Posted by stereointegrity (10678 posts) -

check ur tv's refresh settings...

#49 Posted by Prawephet (51 posts) -
#50 Edited by blackace (19741 posts) -

@BluRayHiDef said:

@Nike_Air:

By no means do I regret getting the game; I absolutely love it. Heck, the frame rate drops aren't even game breaking. I'm just wondering about them, that's all.

I asked the same thing about Knack dropping to 14fps. lol!!

Still the game is great, as you say. I have no regrets getting the game either. I think they sacrificed fps for visuals instead. This should be running at 50-60fps if you ask me.

***********************************************************

The game has never dipped into the mid twenties.

show some proof. Otherwise, confirmed jelly of ps4 and Second Son.

How could he be jelly if he owns the PS4 and the game you moron. lol!!