In Theory: Nintendo's Next Gen Hardware

Around 18 months ago, during an informal chat with an extremely well-placed individual in the hardware manufacturing business, an interesting nugget of information dropped into the conversation - Nintendo was already accepting pitches from third parties on the hardware make-up of its successor for Wii U. Two names were mentioned: AMD and Imagination Technologies, creators of the PowerVR mobile graphics tech. With the lack of backing sources, that little aside never made it to print, but as Nintendo strives to bounce back from the Wii U sales disappointment, eyes inevitably turn towards future platforms.

Is it too early to be talking about new Nintendo hardware? Perhaps - but the fact is that the firm itself has been very open about the general direction it is taking going forward, to the point where it has restructured its entire R&D around a new strategy, designed to address its issues in getting software to market, with fundamental implications for the technological make-up of its next-gen hardware. Handheld and traditional console are now overseen by a single, integrated department, run by Nintendo veteran, Genyo Takeda. The company is openly questioning the future of its business: whether to continue with both handheld and console, to combine them into a single product, or to perhaps expand the range still further. Whatever solution is chosen, integration is key.

Historically Nintendo has been rather insular - behind the times, even - but Iwata and his team are now taking cues from competition in the wider world. In iOS and Android, Nintendo sees platforms that allow games to migrate across to many different types of gaming hardware.

The timing for Nintendo's more integrated next-gen strategy couldn't have been better. Recent trends in gaming technology are based very much on the kind scalability Nintendo will be interested in. Take Nvidia, for example. It developed the Maxwell tech found in Tegra X1 as a mobile architecture first and foremost, then scaled it up to top-of-the-line PC graphics cards. The potential of this kind of scalability for Nintendo is immense, though its published ideas on what form its architecture should take don't quite seem to make sense when the alternatives are so much more enticing.

Wii U certainly has some interesting elements to its technical make-up - it's just that more modern technologies do the same job more efficiently and more cheaply. Nintendo incorporated both CPU and GPU into a multi-chip package, allowing for speedier interconnects and greater power efficiency. However, while an interesting solution, it lacks the elegance, integration and especially the cost benefits of the integrated SoC (system on chip), where all components sit on the same piece of silicon. Wii U also used out-dated production technologies - a 45nm process for its CPU, and 55nm for the GPU. Xbox One and PS4 both launched 12 months later with completely integrated processors at 28nm, the same kind of technology that would have been available to Nintendo if it had embraced a more modern design. For back-compat purposes, Nintendo may wish to hold onto the Wii U architecture, but on the flipside, the lack of commercial success for the latest Nintendo console means that there is less pressure for the firm to continue to support this feature.

Assuming that Nintendo's next hardware launch takes the form of a 3DS replacement, Nvidia is also in with a good shout at becoming the Mario maker's partner of choice. It's a proven SoC designer, capable of delivering stellar results on both mobile and larger form factors. There is some history there, though - 3DS was originally based on Nvidia Tegra hardware, prototype devkits where in circulation, but the deal went south for reasons unknown.

Timescale-wise, it's difficult to picture any new Nintendo hardware (be it console or handheld) arriving before 2016 - more likely 2017 - but what's important to keep in mind is that despite arriving midway through the console generation (as defined by Sony and Microsoft at least), the company is unlikely to utilise the absolute best technology available at that point. Nintendo views its hardware decisions in a very different way to almost every other games technology vendor. To use Genyo Takeda's parlance, a Nintendo machine is defined by a combination of technology and entertainment, not raw specs.

The question of just how powerful the hardware needs to be depends to a certain extent on Nintendo's approach to third-party support. Part of the problem with Wii U was the fact that it was attempting to do something new and different, while at the same time making a play for multi-platform developers - few of whom ended up putting a lot of effort into using the GamePad effectively, and who found it hard to translate Xbox 360 and PS3 titles across to a platform with a very different hardware balance. Meanwhile, Nintendo itself continues to produce unique, visually brilliant games irrespective of the spec. Third party software has never dominated Nintendo's bestseller charts - even during the Wii's period of market dominance - something Iwata himself acknowledges:

"Many people say that when a platform loses its momentum, it tends to receive little third-party support," he said. "But I think it is not a matter of the number of titles but the real problem lies in the availability of popular software that is selling explosively."

In short, it's a case of quality over quantity, with tacit acceptance that it will be Nintendo (and 'second party' partners) that once again provides the must-have titles that define the console experience. Getting the release schedule right is, as Nintendo has accepted, more a matter of logistics - integrating development to spread across its platforms, allowing for more titles from the existing teams. There's also the question of initial momentum. The Nintendo N64 hardware might have been delayed, but the wait was worthwhile - launching with Super Mario 64 and Pilotwings 64 (and Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire in Europe) saw Nintendo hit the ground running in a way that GameCube and Wii U couldn't achieve.

SOURCE

It's a very interesting article- it has some nice speculations about where Nintendo's hardware might go going forward, as well as some great hypotheses about how Nintendo sees itself and its hardware within the scope of the larger industry, as well as the ever pertinent question of third party support.

It sounds like Nintendo will be trying different from the other two manufacturers for the next generation again, except this time, that 'different' will not be a gimmick, but a reasonable and logical extension of their development techniques (and probably something that will be of great help to developers all around in general, rather than hindering them). The old 'Fusion' or 'Hybrid' idea seems to be what they are going for, albeit with a twist. They've never had their back to the wall they do now, and usually they come out all guns blazing. I want to see what they do this time as well.

Won't change the fact Mario Kart 9 will probably be as lazy as 8

shit just got real

I'm interested in what they have to offer a few years down the line... I'm just wondering if, with the state of consoles and PC gaming, it would be wise to factor in upgradeability in their new console. If consoles had more upgradeability (albeit nowhere near that of a PC; for the average gamer that much choice probably isn't necessary or wise) manufacturers wouldn't have to worry about things like dated hardware, consoles losing appeal and relevance toward the end of each cycle (hell they'd barely have to worry about "cycles" at all now, would they?) or backward compatibility.

I'm not sure I like the idea of integrating both home console and handheld into the same hardware. It's a good idea and would be great if properly executed... but I lack faith in Nintendo properly executing it.

Honestly, if they do a console/handheld fusion, I don't see that going well. If they are even considering having third parties (which is begged for but... not going deeper than that), then I can hardly see the sufficient hardware for it.

I'm hoping for a small console, with power-efficient and cost-effective hardware and lots of great first party games.

lazy? maybe.

but is it fun? definitely

Only way i can see it work would be look having it "bundled", where the 2 aren't really interconnected so if you just want 1 type of console, you can have it. If anything, it would bridge the gap between the 2 install bases while not forcing anything on the other, like being too expensive.

However, trying to force mobile and home consoles together will backfire. Alot of the 3DS sales are in Japan, ensethe japanese support, and the Wii U isn't doing too hot there.

@foxhound_fox: So, in essence, more of the same? Ninty's consoles have been sort of like that for a while (GameCube, Wii and WiiU though the last 2 added a gimmick on top of your wishes).

I personally just want them to get their shit together when it comes to getting 3rd party games. The WiiU clearly could (and should) be receiving most of the stuff also available on the PS4 & XB1 even if somewhat downgraded. Also, for the love of god hire a better PR team Nintendo >.>

They don't really have a choice if they don't want to continue losing market share with each generation. My gut feeling on the situation is that their brand is just to fucked up at this point, and big name publishers will never touch Nintendo home consoles the same way they do with the Xbox and Playstation. Unifying their successful handheld and dying console division is the way to go. How they will do that, or if they do that, is something that we don't know at the moment, but hopefully more info will be available around late 2016/early 2017.

If they go with such a route, once thing is definitely clear. They must market this aggressively to grab some desperately needed market presence because they have almost none at the moment, and be smart & precise to not confuse consumers. They must make a strong, aggressive, marketing campaign for their next system to grab the awareness of consumers besides Nintendo fans, otherwise they are fucked again and possibly for the last time.

Unlike what people believe, the WiiU had a great launch lineup of games filled with strong 3rd party support and big name titles. But a lot of people didn't even know that these titles existed, let alone the other chunk of people that thought the WiiU was just an accessory for the Wii.Why? Because the marketing was absolute shit, they never recovered from that, nor have they tried to bounce back. I hope they realize what a mess the WiiU marketing campaign has been.

@Desmonic: I think we need to be clear and understand this- I don't think Nintendo systems ever will receive the bulk of AAA third party support that the other systems do, and I think Nintendo accepts that and is proceeding forward on that assumption- the assumption that it will have to single handedly support its systems and keep them viable itself, either via in house first party games, or second party partnerships with third parties ala Bayonetta 2 and Hyrule Warriors.

The thing with Nintendo being the only supporter of its own systems is, it takes time to develop games, and considering Nintendo has to support two systems, there are always ensuing droughts, and that's what Nintendo seems to be working to counter- a unified development pipeline for their handheld and console means that they can easily use the same assets and tools to develop games for both, their handheld and their console, meaning game development time is shortened considerably, and therefore, the release schedule isn't as barren. The other side is, their handhelds do get a lot of support still, so any third party, such as Atlus, for instance, putting a game on their 4DS or whatever can also create a version for the Wii Mii with minimal costs, meaning that this actually creates a situation for them where their home console benefits in terms of third party support (which it would not ordinarily receive otherwise).

I just want something without any gimmicks, for once. I know it's too much to ask, but there, I'm asking anyway.

a normal controller and being able to handle everything in 1080p easily is all im asking.

Eh, we could go back to that. They did it until the Wii/DS era, didn't they?

I think the gimmick this time is on the development side, the backend that we don't get to see, and one that benefits developers- make a game for one of their systems, and you basically have a readymade game available for their other system as well. This benefits Nintendo because it ensures droughts are minimal for both systems, and their home console, for example, can benefit from the third party support of the handheld.

I don't think they will try any 3D/touch screen/motion controls this time around, though. They take too much money (the 3DS and Wii U made so much loss because the 3D screen/tablet controller were so expensive to manufacture, and after the price cut was forced upon Nintendo, they had no choice but to absorb those losses), and most people, including Nintendo's own developers, simply don't seem to care about them. I think we'll see a focused machine this time around, something like the GBA or GCN.

To be honest, that sounds just about perfect. I'm always complaining about the 3DS droughts and that would take care of that problem.

I hope it's not gimmick based and that the primary controller is more traditional.

Yeah lol, it sounds great, and Nintendo is saying all the right things, but the question is, will they actually follow up with it the way they should? It's Nintendo, so I fully expect them to screw it up somehow :P

More of the same? How is Mario 64 anywhere near the same as Galaxy 2?

And where was Bayonetta 2 on any of those systems?

He's talking about what you outlined for their next generation hardware, which would in fact be more of the same- small, efficient, and cost effective is exactly what Wii and Wii U were.

@foxhound_fox: .......are you serious bro?

If Mario Kart 8 is lazy, we might as well say this whole generation is lazy. Loads of sequels offering the same gameplay we had last gen.

Or! Or! Or they could, you know, get 3rd parties back on board! :P

I kid, I kid. I know Nintendo doesn't have even the first clue on how to do it hehe

I like the overall idea, but the execution (as always) is the key! Nintendo unfortunately hasn't filled us with overwhelming confidence in tech and software for their machines over the last years :P

very interesting read.

i think nintendos next handheld and next console will use the same base hardware in terms of core specs. they will both use ARM CPU cores and an nvidia, powerVR or AMD GPU (if AMD can get a GPU suitable for a portable sorted). DDR4 for the console and whatever the LP equivelent is for the handheld. the console will have more cores, clocked higher in both the CPU and GPU and it will also have more ram of course. powerVR was also mentioned in the article for a GPU which could be very interesting. massive in the mobile world of course and powerVR used to make desktop GPUs (a long long time ago). if they can supply hardware suitable for a console then they could also be in the running indeed.

the similarities between the 2 will mean that techniques used for the handheld can be used on the console, the same toolchain can be used for both devices, the same technology and so on. as the article mentions, at the moment the wiiu and 3DS have nothing in common so very little can be shared between the 2 devices. having a similar base will mean more efficent games development. the hardware is now available to pull this off.

nintendo will be aiming to build a console that makes it easier for them to stick to 1080P and 60FPS for their own games (i think they will have a clearer idea about what their games will also better understand the kind of hardware they need to do it). they wont be interested in 4K or 8K or anything like that.

anyone expecting a super high DPI on their next handheld will also be dissapointed. it not only costs more to add such a screen, it also requires more power to render games on such a screen which further increases costs. in terms of resolution dont expect much higher than the vita. but the hardware will be good enough to make sure that nintendos own games will always run at the native res (maybe at 60FPS...depends on the game). i dont think they will be adding phone features but you never know.

the console and handheld spec will be built to nintendos, and only nintendos, requirements. no concessions will be given to thrid parties. the cost of development on such hardware will be a big concern for them...they dont want to be spending 100million on one game because getting the best out of the console requires that level of expense (and if they are not getting the best out of their hardware then whatever is left is just an unnecessary waste).

i also reckon nintendo could be looking at a third range of devices for next gen. i think they will have a console (of course), a more pocket friendly handheld (so thinner and lighter than a 3DS but with a slightly bigger screen) and a much bigger handheld (10" tablet size kinda big...not necessarily a tablet form factor of course) thats suitable for playing anywhere around the house (like a shield. it may even be able to stream games from the console as well as play its own games) and slipping into a bag if traveling.

i think (and its just a hunch) this is what nintendo are planning. it just makes a lot of sense for them in terms of development effeicency and such like. continue to expand first party development capacity and make development more efficent.

it will mean BC is going to be broken though (unless they can emulate the wiiu CPU on the ARM cores).

this is just core stuff though. its hard to guess what nintendo are going to do exactly with their next devices. i think the recent article on nintendos interest in sharps new screens is interesting as it could mean the bottom screen (assuming nintendo are still making a DS device) could be shaped around the controls making it more ergonomic. on the console front i have no idea. im tempted to say oculus like device but i think that could be an addon for the wiiu instead if nintendo ever decide to look into it.

with regard to third parties:

nintendo wont flat out reject them. i think they will continue to work with certain companies (like platinum and capcom) to bring games and if others want to make games on nintendo platforms then nintendo will certainly work with them. but i dont think they are going to try and get the big multiplats onto their hardware. they just dont sell on nintendos platforms (outside of a few exceptions) so no one is coming out a winner really. nintendo make money by selling nintendo software (including games developed by third parties but published by nintendo) on nintendo hardware...it has been this way for ages now.

I'll get it whatever they decide to release unless it's some casual crap

I look forward to more arguments where you lose to @charizard1605

Nintendo fans. Wildly claim they are unflinchingly ecstatic with their wii u and the amount of games out for it. Talking about the next console already in quite a few places, with the idea of doing everything differently next time.

In practice: underpowered and overpriced mobile chip for the sheep.

Nintendo is cheap as ****

gameplay hasn't changed much since ps2 era. dodge and attack every single boss fight, the only thing last gen brought us is iron sights.

Iron sights were in games before last gen

I believe you as much as I believe this guy below to be a "LIFELONG Nintendo fan":

That was as early as 1998's Delta Force...not sure if there are any earlier games with iron sights than that.

Their next console will be cheap garbage too

In theory and the most logical will be another console that will be more or less at the power of a PS4 with slightly better hardware attributes because of newest technologies. And thats it. By the release of PS5 will be again an outdated console similar to what Wii and Wii U was.

If the next console is just going to be another Nintendo delivery system then it better not be priced higher than $249.99. You can't sell a console without third party support for $300+ dollars. Personally, I don't even see the point in Nintendo releasing another home console if they can't get third party games on board. How will more powerful hardware really benefit their cartoony artstyle? They are already making games in HD, so what else can they really do with more power?

Then it will just sell as piss poor as the Wii U. Nintendo's 1st party franchises alone just don't have that mass appeal anymore. They need third parties on board as well, or they will just continue to sell to the same 15 million or so die hard Nintendo fans.

ah, so nothing changed. just shinier rocks and more grass.

They should have a slot where you can upgrade the APU/Memory interface PCB with a new one.

It would be a more powerful version of the Wii U.

I think Nintendo will release a 3DSLite(720p), 3DS2k, Wii U2k, and a Wii U4k. I believe they will try and cater to casual and hardore by having 2 handhelds and 2 consoles.

@nintendoboy16: lol. Anyone who knows me knows I have a wii u and 3ds. I'm an ambassador btw. And I have majoras mask collectors edition preordered.

Death of nintendo exclusives? Death of nintendo exclusives.

pics or GTFO

It will be another weak ass system with a gimmick controller and 90% of its library being Mario and 2D platformers.

I Agree ... As more and more decent graphics , cute characters , casual appeal is everywhere to be found .. From the lowest end PCs ( that are too common nowdays ) to the crappiest androids ( which everyone has nowdays ) ..youngsters dont see any appeal to Nintendo like the old days.

And before some sheep come to the defense about Wii ... lets clear something. Its not Wii that sold that much as a console nor the amazing mario galaxy games... Was Wii-mote appeal to casuals.

Ultimately i hope Nintendo get their shit together and provide a competitive console not only in 1st party exclusive area but in all other areas all around including 3rd party exlusives , multiplatform , online gaming , hardware capabilities etc etc ...

If they go back to same old formula ...another fiasco coming. It seems Nintendo consoles wont sale too much anymore with the same old classics.

It almost reads as if they want to just have there own OS, or a piece of software that is required to access the Nintendo content--sort of like Itunes.

...Oh and Goldeneye had iron sites.

Nintendo's hardware is not that big of a problem to me, nor would third party even be much of a consideration if their library were more diverse to make up for their absence. It all feels too similar in style. If Nintendo were willing to step outside of their comfort zone and could provide software that felt refreshing from their usual take while putting it out on a consistent basis, I wouldn't even care what their machine does. The only reason I care is if they're willing to accommodate third parties....and I highly doubt they are going to start now.

Lol I had thought of a slot where you can insert an ordinary graphics card (seeing as they're partnering with AMD, I don't see why not). If the CPU is decent enough it should last many years, meaning a GPU upgrade from time to time would keep the hardware up to date and customisable for each person...

Great minds think alike so it would seem :p

I'm really hoping for a portable system that just has a small box on the TV for streaming to in case you want to play at home on a bigger screen. The box would need to be compatible with extra controllers etc. too. There are a number of ways this could be handled I guess but I can certainly see them going down this route.