If the GDDR5 set up in the ps4 is so good then why...

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

 

^ 100% BS

ps4 CPU will not use more than 20GB/s of memory bandwidth and the rest 156GB/s will be used by the GPU.

So the CPU is getting 20GB/s with high CAS latency.

Also GDDR5 exist on pc from 2008 as GPU memory and will never be used as main system memory.

tormentos

The memory speed is 5500mhz far faster than DDR3,even is only one part is recerve for GPU..

Worried about GDDR5 latencies? Don't be. Large Cache, very capable bus, shortcuts and clever data transferring between CPU and GPU make that a non-issue.

This^^.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/5/amd-kaveri-unveiled-pc-architecture-gets-gddr5.aspx

The ps4 CPU is getting 20GB/s with high CAS latency. get over it.

for example my CPU is getting 48GB/s with low CAS latency, and my 2 GPU's of total of 600GB/s. LOL the 156GB/s ps4 GPU have.

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

[QUOTE="Cranler"] The difference in multiplats is because the 360 is easier to develop for. Cranler

No that was on 2005 2006 2007,the xbox 360 has unified memory and less bloated OS that the PS3,no matter what the PS3 can only use less than 256MB for video,the xbox 360 can use more.

[QUOTE="deeliman"][QUOTE="tormentos"]

 

The dfference between 360 and PS3 multiplatform games is because of the memory dude,the xbox 360 has a little more memory available for games,so don't say is nothing have you try to run windows 7 with 512MB of ram.?\

A good CPU and GPU without good ram is nothing.

whitey_rolls

Exactly it's just more sony hype - do we remember the cell? How did that work out for you? And for those saying I'm a blind Xbox fanboy, not quite I have no intentions at all of buying either console.whitey_rolls

Sony did not say that 8GB of GDDR5 would turn the PS4 into a super computer.

Yes i remember Cell without it the PS3 would have been a piece of sh** way behind the xbox 360,the reason games like Uncharted 3 look like they do is because of Cell,the PS3 GPU is a gimped 7800,a full blown 7800 was no match for the xbox 360,imagine a gimped one.

The PS4 will outperform the xbox one,based on faster memory and stronger GPU,there is no way around this.

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

GDDR5 have high CAS latency, which is bad for the CPU, that is why.

ZoomZoom2490

But huge speed which would over come any latency issue,is always the same and from what i read GDDR5 is coming to a PC near you soon for system.

And like it happen with DDR3 people will change and will not care about latency because the speed reward make up for any latencies.

CPU in PS4 has a memory controller, the FSB(front side bus) days are over when low CAS mattered.

its amazing how little education people have in this forum and the funny thing is they are 99% sony haters, ironic.

Because PC isn't a dedicated gaming machine.

It has to do a variety of tasks.

call_of_duty_10

[QUOTE="spy2828"]

[QUOTE="voicereason"] Read the post just up above You are both are delusional by the way lolvoicereason

LOLWHAT? I agree with the "delusional" people. To realise how small of a diference RAM makes in system performance why don't you do a benchmark yourself?

First try with 8 Gigs of ram at 11-11-11-24 latency , then try with 4 Gigs, then try with 2 Gigs, then overclock it to 9-9-9 and try again.

After you do that you will realise the "delusional people" were right about how not important RAM is.

I don't game on the PC , I game on the PS3 and I'm as much of a Sony fanboy as you are.

I just posted something I noticed after I did some benchmarks with my ram.

It's your opinion vs my facts. RAM doesn't effect textures/particles etc. PERIOD. It's just memory.

 

The ps4 CPU is getting 20GB/s with high CAS latency. get over it.

for example my CPU is getting 48GB/s with low CAS latency, and my 2 GPU's of total of 600GB/s. LOL the 156GB/s ps4 GPU have.

MK-Professor

The PS4 CPU and GPU are on the same die,so communication between both is actually faster than PC.

The PS4 GPU and CPU don't have to copy and paste over a buss back and forward,that proccess is eliminated,thanks to the same die design.

The PS4 GPU and CPU can execute out of order,GCN is in order GPU but ACES allow for out of order execution,on GCN there are 2 ACES on PS4 8 ACES and 64 commands vs GCN 4 commands.

The PS4 can even bypass cache,if a proccess get stall do to latency,another will run..

And your last comment dosn't mean much to me since i will get a PS4 for less than one of your video cards,and i will play the same games you play and many you will not,so i could care less if you invest 2K in a machine.

What the hell is p with all this GDDR5  talk? As if its some sort of revolution...

I've had GDDR5 for 4 years now, on my PC from 2009 which has 2 GB of GDDR5 (dual HD 5870). But the memory alone is not all that matters, as my budget laptop I bought this year has a single GTX 660M which also has 2gb of GDDR5 memory, yet is significantly weaker than my 5870 crossfire.

Anyway, both of them max out any game except Crysis 3 at 1080p resolution (the resolution of my projector and laptop screen). 

GPUs have been using GDDR5...so there's that.

PCs cant use GDDR5 as memory because as the name of it mentions, its for graphics (in pcs...)

GDDR5 is modified DDR3, the latency of the chips is the same, the latency of the memory controllers is different and that is main reason why it isnt used as CPU memory in pcs.

A console being a closed circuit made of custom/semi-custom components has certain benefits that PCs cant have, one of them being memory controllers designed for it. Because of that memory latency is not a problem.

The other advantage of consoles is using APUs and unified memory banks. That enables the CPU to communicate directly with the GPU and memory (and vice-versa), something only possible in PC if a PC is built without any possibility of installing later a better graphic card. Having a separate graphic card like PCs usually have, separates the GPU from the CPU and the memory, they can only communicate via PCIe, and that limits the transfer speeds between the components, and also forces some data to be duped in the RAM 2x, one for the CPU and another copy for the GPU.

Wont the move engines, (sorry dont know to much about them) in the x1 help on the graphics side with effects and such?

Shifting polys isnt everything but the capability of gpu's differ on effects produced right? microsoft only mentioned x1's gpu as dx11+, and the 360's was very much custom wasnt it?

[QUOTE="voicereason"][QUOTE="spy2828"]

 

LOLWHAT? I agree with the "delusional" people. To realise how small of a diference RAM makes in system performance why don't you do a benchmark yourself?

 

First try with 8 Gigs of ram at 11-11-11-24 latency , then try with 4 Gigs, then try with 2 Gigs, then overclock it to 9-9-9 and try again.

 

After you do that you will realise the "delusional people" were right about how not important RAM is.

spy2828

I don't game on the PC , I game on the PS3 and I'm as much of a Sony fanboy as you are.

I just posted something I noticed after I did some benchmarks with my ram.

It's your opinion vs my facts. RAM doesn't effect textures/particles etc. PERIOD. It's just memory.

No, but it does affect the size of that assets that can be used at any time. If the CPU or GPU need to get these things from HDD or the disc, you will have slowdowns. Hence why you do not want memory leakage in your game, where your RAM slowly gets filled up with bad data.
Sure the GPU might be able to spew out 100k particles, but those particles has textures and depending on resolution these do take up ram. 

For those of you who are uninformed about the difference between GDDR5 vs DDR3, the performance difference is similar to GDDR5 vs DDR3 GPUs. There's a reason that all high end GPU uses the former, because its simply superior for gaming. The consoles are dedicated gaming machines, the preference for GDDR5 is a no brainer. 

PC isn't for gaming.

The games it does get (mostly indie crap) dont even need GDDR5 ram.

 

I don't game on the PC , I game on the PS3 and I'm as much of a Sony fanboy as you are.

 

I just posted something I noticed after I did some benchmarks with my ram.

 

It's your opinion vs my facts. RAM doesn't effect textures/particles etc. PERIOD. It's just memory.

spy2828

Total fail. Your overclocked your PC ram and assume that it has the same bearing on performance. Why don't you try overclocking your memory in your GPU and tell me what the performance difference is. 

The fact is, your PC ram is general purpose, the ram in your GPU is dedicated. That's why you will see a performance leap when you overclock memory in the GPU while almost no performance increase when you overclock your system ram.

GPU memory EFFECT textures and particles. Having access to more ram @higher bandwidth allows for higher resolution textures and particles to be rendered in real time. 

[QUOTE="deeliman"] What I think he means is that GDDR5 RAM won't make the PS4 a supercomputer like many people claimed. tormentos

It will not.

But unlike what he claims memory is important,is the reason GPU makers moved from DDR3 long ago and now use GDDR5,if memory wasn't we would still be using cheaper DDR3.

GPU makers only moved to DDR3 a few years ago and they only use it on low end cards. You are mistaking GDDR3 with DDR3. GDDR5 is a variant of DDR3. GDDR3 is a variant of DDR2. Supposedly GDDR6 will be a variant of DDR4.

GDDR5 isn't the only advantage.

The GPU itself is more powerful.

Because PC isn't a dedicated gaming machine.

It has to do a variety of tasks.

call_of_duty_10

PC isn't for gaming.

The games it does get (mostly indie crap) dont even need GDDR5 ram.

EvanTheGamer

shhhh. time to stop now

[QUOTE="call_of_duty_10"]

Because PC isn't a dedicated gaming machine.

It has to do a variety of tasks.

Cyberdot

This, basically.

Dedicated GPUs are available for gaming and these things have GDDR5 memory in them.

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

GDDR5 have high CAS latency, which is bad for the CPU, that is why.

 

tormentos

But huge speed which would over come any latency issue,is always the same and from what i read GDDR5 is coming to a PC near you soon for system.

And like it happen with DDR3 people will change and will not care about latency because the speed reward make up for any latencies.

I'm sure it's for people interested in APU's, laptops, etc.  Gamers on pc will still go discrete Gpu as GDDR6 next year will shit on GDDR5 for gpu purposes.  Same thing can be said when DDR4 releases and replaces DDR3.

[QUOTE="ZoomZoom2490"]

funny that esfan thinks he's some top computer engineer in the world and knows more than the tech compaines who bulld the PS4.

its disgusting watching some posts here on GS, its painful to watch.

clyde46

This GDDR5 thing is a joke.  People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!.  This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up.  And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny.  As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

whitey_rolls

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

 

The ps4 CPU is getting 20GB/s with high CAS latency. get over it.

for example my CPU is getting 48GB/s with low CAS latency, and my 2 GPU's of total of 600GB/s. LOL the 156GB/s ps4 GPU have.

tormentos

The PS4 CPU and GPU are on the same die,so communication between both is actually faster than PC.

The PS4 GPU and CPU don't have to copy and paste over a buss back and forward,that proccess is eliminated,thanks to the same die design.

The PS4 GPU and CPU can execute out of order,GCN is in order GPU but ACES allow for out of order execution,on GCN there are 2 ACES on PS4 8 ACES and 64 commands vs GCN 4 commands.

The PS4 can even bypass cache,if a proccess get stall do to latency,another will run..

And your last comment dosn't mean much to me since i will get a PS4 for less than one of your video cards,and i will play the same games you play and many you will not,so i could care less if you invest 2K in a machine.

^ you just describe what a low-end PC dose with APU:lol:

PS4 GPU - 156GB/s, My PC GPU's total 600GB/s
600GB/s >  156GB/s
8.6Tflops > 1.8Tflops
PS4 CPU - 20GB/s(high CAS latency), My PC CPU 48GB/s(low CAS latency)
48GB/s > 20GB/s
I playing at "2560x1440, max settings, 60fps", for almost 2 years, and you "1280x720, low settings, 25-30fps".

stay mad :cool:

same reason why ddr3 replaced ddr2 on pc.

according to sony haters, ddr1 is the best memory in the world, right? rofl

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

The ps4 CPU is getting 20GB/s with high CAS latency. get over it.

for example my CPU is getting 48GB/s with low CAS latency, and my 2 GPU's of total of 600GB/s. LOL the 156GB/s ps4 GPU have.

MK-Professor

The PS4 CPU and GPU are on the same die,so communication between both is actually faster than PC.

The PS4 GPU and CPU don't have to copy and paste over a buss back and forward,that proccess is eliminated,thanks to the same die design.

The PS4 GPU and CPU can execute out of order,GCN is in order GPU but ACES allow for out of order execution,on GCN there are 2 ACES on PS4 8 ACES and 64 commands vs GCN 4 commands.

The PS4 can even bypass cache,if a proccess get stall do to latency,another will run..

And your last comment dosn't mean much to me since i will get a PS4 for less than one of your video cards,and i will play the same games you play and many you will not,so i could care less if you invest 2K in a machine.

^ you just describe what a low-end PC dose with APU:lol:

PS4 GPU - 156GB/s, My PC GPU's total 600GB/s
600GB/s > 156GB/s
8.6Tflops > 1.8Tflops
PS4 CPU - 20GB/s(high CAS latency), My PC CPU 48GB/s(low CAS latency)
48GB/s > 20GB/s
I playing at "2560x1440, max settings, 60fps", for almost 2 years, and you "1280x720, low settings, 25-30fps".

stay mad :cool:

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

 

The PS4 CPU and GPU are on the same die,so communication between both is actually faster than PC.

The PS4 GPU and CPU don't have to copy and paste over a buss back and forward,that proccess is eliminated,thanks to the same die design.

The PS4 GPU and CPU can execute out of order,GCN is in order GPU but ACES allow for out of order execution,on GCN there are 2 ACES on PS4 8 ACES and 64 commands vs GCN 4 commands.

The PS4 can even bypass cache,if a proccess get stall do to latency,another will run..

And your last comment dosn't mean much to me since i will get a PS4 for less than one of your video cards,and i will play the same games you play and many you will not,so i could care less if you invest 2K in a machine.

ZoomZoom2490

^ you just describe what a low-end PC dose with APU:lol:

PS4 GPU - 156GB/s, My PC GPU's total 600GB/s
600GB/s > 156GB/s
8.6Tflops > 1.8Tflops
PS4 CPU - 20GB/s(high CAS latency), My PC CPU 48GB/s(low CAS latency)
48GB/s > 20GB/s
I playing at "2560x1440, max settings, 60fps", for almost 2 years, and you "1280x720, low settings, 25-30fps".

stay mad :cool:

so by your logic if something have GDDR5 must be good? the speed of GDDR5 is irrelevant to you? for example, even a HD4870 from 2008 have GDDR5 is that mean that it have the same memory speed with GPU's from 2013?

You need to take alook at Nvidia roadmap. They are going to start pushing to unified memory.

http://forwardthinking.pcmag.com/none/309620-nvidia-pushes-memory-improvements-unified-architecture-for-gpus-mobile-processors

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

The PS4 CPU and GPU are on the same die,so communication between both is actually faster than PC.

The PS4 GPU and CPU don't have to copy and paste over a buss back and forward,that proccess is eliminated,thanks to the same die design.

The PS4 GPU and CPU can execute out of order,GCN is in order GPU but ACES allow for out of order execution,on GCN there are 2 ACES on PS4 8 ACES and 64 commands vs GCN 4 commands.

The PS4 can even bypass cache,if a proccess get stall do to latency,another will run..

And your last comment dosn't mean much to me since i will get a PS4 for less than one of your video cards,and i will play the same games you play and many you will not,so i could care less if you invest 2K in a machine.

ZoomZoom2490

^ you just describe what a low-end PC dose with APU:lol:

PS4 GPU - 156GB/s, My PC GPU's total 600GB/s
600GB/s > 156GB/s
8.6Tflops > 1.8Tflops
PS4 CPU - 20GB/s(high CAS latency), My PC CPU 48GB/s(low CAS latency)
48GB/s > 20GB/s
I playing at "2560x1440, max settings, 60fps", for almost 2 years, and you "1280x720, low settings, 25-30fps".

stay mad :cool:

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

 

The PS4 CPU and GPU are on the same die,so communication between both is actually faster than PC.

The PS4 GPU and CPU don't have to copy and paste over a buss back and forward,that proccess is eliminated,thanks to the same die design.

The PS4 GPU and CPU can execute out of order,GCN is in order GPU but ACES allow for out of order execution,on GCN there are 2 ACES on PS4 8 ACES and 64 commands vs GCN 4 commands.

The PS4 can even bypass cache,if a proccess get stall do to latency,another will run..

And your last comment dosn't mean much to me since i will get a PS4 for less than one of your video cards,and i will play the same games you play and many you will not,so i could care less if you invest 2K in a machine.

ZoomZoom2490

^ you just describe what a low-end PC dose with APU:lol:

PS4 GPU - 156GB/s, My PC GPU's total 600GB/s
600GB/s > 156GB/s
8.6Tflops > 1.8Tflops
PS4 CPU - 20GB/s(high CAS latency), My PC CPU 48GB/s(low CAS latency)
48GB/s > 20GB/s
I playing at "2560x1440, max settings, 60fps", for almost 2 years, and you "1280x720, low settings, 25-30fps".

stay mad :cool:

Ya, it's time for you to stop and lay low, you just made an ass of yourself with that comment.  Be gone ignorant peasant.

[QUOTE="Cyberdot"]

[QUOTE="call_of_duty_10"]

Because PC isn't a dedicated gaming machine.

It has to do a variety of tasks.

Heil68

This, basically.

Dedicated GPUs are available for gaming and these things have GDDR5 memory in them.

Two news movies to watch on youtube. :D

I'm just happy Sony decided to go with an x86 architecture. (PC gamers celebrate)

Anyways, comparing specs is useless. It's a damn console! consoles = convenience.

Developers won't utilize it (except for Naughty Dog, Quantic Dream) 98% will just be the same old stuff. It always is.

If I were a Sony guy i'd be more worried about the failure rate at launch :lol: Xbox 50% failure rate (remember that!) :lol:

The big deal about the GDDR5 is that its bandwidth allowed them to put another 6 compute units on the APU rather than putting a bunch of custom stuff on there to aid DDR3.

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="ZoomZoom2490"]

funny that esfan thinks he's some top computer engineer in the world and knows more than the tech compaines who bulld the PS4.

its disgusting watching some posts here on GS, its painful to watch.

voicereason

You mean movies!

The big deal about the GDDR5 is that its bandwidth allowed them to put another 6 compute units on the APU rather than putting a bunch of custom stuff on there to aid DDR3.

Wickerman777

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

The big deal about the GDDR5 is that its bandwidth allowed them to put another 6 compute units on the APU rather than putting a bunch of custom stuff on there to aid DDR3.

rrjim1

PCs cant use GDDR5 as memory because as the name of it mentions, its for graphics (in pcs...)

GDDR5 is modified DDR3, the latency of the chips is the same, the latency of the memory controllers is different and that is main reason why it isnt used as CPU memory in pcs.

A console being a closed circuit made of custom/semi-custom components has certain benefits that PCs cant have, one of them being memory controllers designed for it. Because of that memory latency is not a problem.

The other advantage of consoles is using APUs and unified memory banks. That enables the CPU to communicate directly with the GPU and memory (and vice-versa), something only possible in PC if a PC is built without any possibility of installing later a better graphic card. Having a separate graphic card like PCs usually have, separates the GPU from the CPU and the memory, they can only communicate via PCIe, and that limits the transfer speeds between the components, and also forces some data to be duped in the RAM 2x, one for the CPU and another copy for the GPU.

ManatuBeard

+1 Good post.

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

The big deal about the GDDR5 is that its bandwidth allowed them to put another 6 compute units on the APU rather than putting a bunch of custom stuff on there to aid DDR3.

rrjim1

Lol, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. When it comes to Xbox One the GPU is shit because of the ESRAM and data move engines. Both consoles use the same size die and the CPU side of them is almost identical. But the GPU sides are much different. The PS4's is packed with compute units and ROPS while the Xbox One has ESRAM and data move engines eating up a lot of space that could and should have been used for more graphics processing. Read the articles at digital foundry and threads at beyond3d forum to learn something.

And if it's impossible for the CPU to do anything without DDR3 I guess PS4 isn't going to work at all since it has none of it, lol.

that's too bad if true. Hope ronvelanca or tormento comment on this.

edit: already commented. time to read :)

there is no real advantage or disadvantage. DDR3 works better for what the xbot is trying to do and GDDR5 works better for what the PS4 is trying to do. That is the simplest way to put it.NFJSupreme

That's actually incorrect. The GDDR5 solution would be the best solution for either scenario. Microsoft just bet on the wrong horse and now they're stuck with an inferior and complex architecture.

there is no real advantage or disadvantage. DDR3 works better for what the xbot is trying to do and GDDR5 works better for what the PS4 is trying to do. That is the simplest way to put it.NFJSupreme

Sigh, no it isn't. Haven't any of you guys bothered reading ANY technical articles about these systems? It's obvious you're willing to read about video games or you wouldn't be here but you'd be a lot better served reading at least a few in-depth articles rather than relying on forums totally. For the quickest brush-up go to eurogamer and read their articles about this.

DDR3 absolutely does not work better for what MS wanted to do. It was simply a matter of them being conservative and Sony placing their priorities elsewhere and taking a gamble and that gamble paying off. MS was hell-bent on 8 gigs of RAM because of all the media stuff they wanted to do. To them it wasn't an option: 8 gigs of memory or bust. When they started designing the console the only certain way to get 8 gigs of unified RAM into a console was by using DDR3. At the time only a mere 2 gigs of GDDR5 was possible. There was a slight chance that sometime in 2013 8 gigs of GDDR5 would become doable but it was only slight and because come hell or high water MS felt they had to have 8 gigs of RAM they went with the sure thing: DDR3. Sony, however, wasn't nearly as concerned about the amount of RAM as MS was. They put their resources into graphics processing. When the PS4 started off it had a mere 2 gigs of GDDR5. They later got it up to 4 gigs and it was looking like that was all it would end up with. But they were OK with that. They had less memory but a better GPU. But at the 11th hour 8 gigs of GDDR5 became technically possible and they ended up with the best of both worlds, better memory and a better GPU. Like I said earlier, they gambled and won. MS went ultra-conservative with their memory architecture because they were so dedicated to 8 gigs and they lost. Their commitment to DDR3 also weakened the GPU-side of their APU because 1/3rd of its resources was dedicated to custom hardware to speed up the DDR3 rather than dedicating that space to extra graphics processing.

MS thought Sony was going to go with 4 gigs of GDDR5 so whey put 8 gigs of the cheapo archaic ddr3 ram knowing the average joe really would only hear 8 vs 4 and think it was better. Sony just caught em with their pants down. 

It's funny to hear the Microsoft nut suckers try and spin it though, like this was all part of some master plan. I'm sure they're all running to the store to buy some ddr1 for its lower latency.  :lol: