If the GDDR5 set up in the ps4 is so good then why...

...then why hasn't the pc ever had a system set up like the ps4? There must be a reason why system makers avoided such a set up.

I'm no tech wizard but doesnt using GDDR5 cause "handshake"/compatibility problems with the cpu?

I mean I always thought that by going all in with GDDR5 for both the GPU and CPU would cause problems.

This post from the ps4 sub 30fps games thread got me wondering about GDDR5 working with the CPU....

I am a software developer. After reading the PS4 specs, I kind of expected this. Sony screwed up last gen with the cell processor and they screwed up this gen by going with a GDDR5 only system. I knew they would have latency problems with the CPU by using this type of memory.I've been laughing seeing all the GDDR5 hype on here. The XBox One is a more balanced, better designed system that will deliver consistent performance. The supposed PS4 performance advantage is paper only.The PS4 developers are going to have to deal with lots of weird timing issues.Higher bandwidth is great for a GPU, but worthless when the higher latency of the GDDR5 makes the CPU constantly have to wait for the memory to return the data it needs and then taking longer to update that memory. Games are not only graphics. You have to have the CPU running the game code to decide what graphics need to be shown. If the CPU is memory starved because of the higher latency, you will get framerate problems.Esfan13

Because PC isn't a dedicated gaming machine.

It has to do a variety of tasks.

Interesting OP. 

Because PC isn't a dedicated gaming machine.

It has to do a variety of tasks.

call_of_duty_10

This, basically.

Dedicated GPUs are available for gaming and these things have GDDR5 memory in them.

Because PC isn't a dedicated gaming machine.It has to do a variety of tasks.call_of_duty_10

This GDDR5 thing is a joke.  People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!.  This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up.  And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny.  As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

[QUOTE="call_of_duty_10"]Because PC isn't a dedicated gaming machine.It has to do a variety of tasks.greensand24

This GDDR5 thing is a joke.  People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!.  This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up.  And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny.  As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

whitey_rolls

[QUOTE="call_of_duty_10"]Because PC isn't a dedicated gaming machine.It has to do a variety of tasks.greensand24

I don't have such a technical knowledge about how GDDR5 communicate with the CPU, but all I know is that GDDR5 have a much bigger bandwidth (256-bit and 384-bit), thus faster, and is better for transferring big amounts of data.

DDR3 is better for transferring smaller & light data and it has 64-bit worth of bandwidth. There is a valid reason that PC is using both, DDR3 and GDDR5, since the PC is not only dedicated for gaming, but GDDR5 is available to those who uses PC for gaming. PS4 is dedicated to gaming, so it makes sense for the GDDR5 to be incorporated in it.

funny that esfan thinks he's some top computer engineer in the world and knows more than the tech compaines who bulld the PS4.

its disgusting watching some posts here on GS, its painful to watch.

This GDDR5 thing is a joke. .

whitey_rolls

This GDDR5 thing is a joke. People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!. This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up. And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny. As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

whitey_rolls

This, this & this.

Here's an article.

http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Jinx+01/ps4-what-does-8gb-of-ddr5-mean-for-the-system--248786.phtml

[QUOTE="whitey_rolls"]

This GDDR5 thing is a joke. People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!. This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up. And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny. As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

kipsta77

This, this & this.

funny that esfan thinks he's some top computer engineer in the world and knows more than the tech compaines who bulld the PS4.

its disgusting watching some posts here on GS, its painful to watch.

ZoomZoom2490

[QUOTE="kipsta77"]

[QUOTE="whitey_rolls"]

This GDDR5 thing is a joke. People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!. This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up. And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny. As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

voicereason

This, this & this.

[QUOTE="kipsta77"]

[QUOTE="whitey_rolls"]

This GDDR5 thing is a joke. People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!. This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up. And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny. As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

voicereason

This, this & this.

LOLWHAT? I agree with the "delusional" people. To realise how small of a diference RAM makes in system performance why don't you do a benchmark yourself?

First try with 8 Gigs of ram at 11-11-11-24 latency , then try with 4 Gigs, then try with 2 Gigs, then overclock it to 9-9-9 and try again.

After you do that you will realise the "delusional people" were right about how not important RAM is.

GDDR5 have high CAS latency, which is bad for the CPU, that is why.

[QUOTE="ZoomZoom2490"]

funny that esfan thinks he's some top computer engineer in the world and knows more than the tech compaines who bulld the PS4.

its disgusting watching some posts here on GS, its painful to watch.

clyde46

...then why hasn't the pc ever had a system set up like the ps4? There must be a reason why system makers avoided such a set up.

I'm no tech wizard but doesnt using GDDR5 cause "handshake"/compatibility problems with the cpu?

I mean I always thought that by going all in with GDDR5 for both the GPU and CPU would cause problems.

This post from the ps4 sub 30fps games thread got me wondering about GDDR5 working with the CPU....

[QUOTE="Esfan13"]I am a software developer. After reading the PS4 specs, I kind of expected this. Sony screwed up last gen with the cell processor and they screwed up this gen by going with a GDDR5 only system. I knew they would have latency problems with the CPU by using this type of memory.I've been laughing seeing all the GDDR5 hype on here. The XBox One is a more balanced, better designed system that will deliver consistent performance. The supposed PS4 performance advantage is paper only.The PS4 developers are going to have to deal with lots of weird timing issues.Higher bandwidth is great for a GPU, but worthless when the higher latency of the GDDR5 makes the CPU constantly have to wait for the memory to return the data it needs and then taking longer to update that memory. Games are not only graphics. You have to have the CPU running the game code to decide what graphics need to be shown. If the CPU is memory starved because of the higher latency, you will get framerate problems.greensand24

DDR1 has higher latency than DDR2,DDR2 has higher latency than DR3,it did not stop PC from moving because the speed benefit over came the latency issues.

Also the PS4 CPU and GPU are on the same die,which reduce latency,both have out of order execution,if one proccess stall the next one runs,the PS4 was balance for this,support content switching,and even caches can be bypass.

So nothing to worry some PS4 games are just early period,no matter how much power you have and fast ram,games need time to cook period,this is a fact on all consoles,look at how horrible Dead Rising 3 was running for the xbox one 15FPS that is worse than any PS4 game.

[QUOTE="whitey_rolls"]

This GDDR5 thing is a joke. .

voicereason

You're so full of shit. 'But developers said so!' That's the only argument you have about why it's better? Idiot. 

GDDR5 have high CAS latency, which is bad for the CPU, that is why.

 

MK-Professor

But huge speed which would over come any latency issue,is always the same and from what i read GDDR5 is coming to a PC near you soon for system.

And like it happen with DDR3 people will change and will not care about latency because the speed reward make up for any latencies.

This GDDR5 thing is a joke.  People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!.  This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up.  And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny.  As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

whitey_rolls

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

GDDR5 have high CAS latency, which is bad for the CPU, that is why.

tormentos

But huge speed which would over come any latency issue,is always the same and from what i read GDDR5 is coming to a PC near you soon for system.

And like it happen with DDR3 people will change and will not care about latency because the speed reward make up for any latencies.

CPU in PS4 has a memory controller, the FSB(front side bus) days are over when low CAS mattered.

its amazing how little education people have in this forum and the funny thing is they are 99% sony haters, ironic.

[QUOTE="voicereason"][QUOTE="kipsta77"]

This, this & this.

 

spy2828

LOLWHAT? I agree with the "delusional" people. To realise how small of a diference RAM makes in system performance why don't you do a benchmark yourself?

First try with 8 Gigs of ram at 11-11-11-24 latency , then try with 4 Gigs, then try with 2 Gigs, then overclock it to 9-9-9 and try again.

After you do that you will realise the "delusional people" were right about how not important RAM is.

[QUOTE="spy2828"]

[QUOTE="voicereason"] Read the post just up above You are both are delusional by the way lolvoicereason

LOLWHAT? I agree with the "delusional" people. To realise how small of a diference RAM makes in system performance why don't you do a benchmark yourself?

First try with 8 Gigs of ram at 11-11-11-24 latency , then try with 4 Gigs, then try with 2 Gigs, then overclock it to 9-9-9 and try again.

After you do that you will realise the "delusional people" were right about how not important RAM is.

Not if the GPU isn't strong enough.

you ignorant fools, there is a thing called memory controller in these modern times, lol.

Front Side Bus is dead, no need for low CAS memory anymore.

wow, ignorance is a bliss.

It was a solution created from a problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place. DDR3 + on chip ESRAM was the more technical approach but $ony done goofed :?

[QUOTE="spy2828"]

[QUOTE="voicereason"] Read the post just up above You are both are delusional by the way lolvoicereason

LOLWHAT? I agree with the "delusional" people. To realise how small of a diference RAM makes in system performance why don't you do a benchmark yourself?

First try with 8 Gigs of ram at 11-11-11-24 latency , then try with 4 Gigs, then try with 2 Gigs, then overclock it to 9-9-9 and try again.

After you do that you will realise the "delusional people" were right about how not important RAM is.

I'll make a list for you what RAM actually improves and what in not improves.

What it does not improve: Textures Transparencies Particles Lighting Animation Resolution Frame rate Loading times Persistent gameplay AI

What is does improve: Number of enemies

[QUOTE="MK-Professor"]

GDDR5 have high CAS latency, which is bad for the CPU, that is why.

 

tormentos

But huge speed which would over come any latency issue,is always the same and from what i read GDDR5 is coming to a PC near you soon for system.

And like it happen with DDR3 people will change and will not care about latency because the speed reward make up for any latencies.

^ 100% BS

ps4 CPU will not use more than 20GB/s of memory bandwidth and the rest 156GB/s will be used by the GPU.

So the CPU is getting 20GB/s with high CAS latency.

Also GDDR5 exist on pc from 2008 as GPU memory and will never be used as main system memory.

[QUOTE="spy2828"]

[QUOTE="voicereason"] Read the post just up above You are both are delusional by the way lolvoicereason

LOLWHAT? I agree with the "delusional" people. To realise how small of a diference RAM makes in system performance why don't you do a benchmark yourself?

First try with 8 Gigs of ram at 11-11-11-24 latency , then try with 4 Gigs, then try with 2 Gigs, then overclock it to 9-9-9 and try again.

After you do that you will realise the "delusional people" were right about how not important RAM is.

This GDDR5 thing is a joke.  People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!.  This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up.  And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny.  As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

whitey_rolls

The dfference between 360 and PS3 multiplatform games is because of the memory dude,the xbox 360 has a little more memory available for games,so don't say is nothing have you try to run windows 7 with 512MB of ram.?\

A good CPU and GPU without good ram is nothing.

Because this

Why don't PCs have DDR5 as system RAM? There are two reasons. For one, DDR3 actually has lower latency than DDR5, making it better for a CPU's quick-access general tasks. And while its bandwidth is a fraction of DDR5's, it is still more than adequate to provide data to the CPU. If we replaced it with gaming DDR5 we might actually see reduced CPU performance due to DDR5's increased latency.

PCs have to do a lot more than just games and they can' afford to have a laggy CPU. This is why a lot of people are saying they think the DDR5 is gonna hold back the PS4s CPU, especially for the non gaming side of things

[QUOTE="whitey_rolls"]

This GDDR5 thing is a joke.  People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!.  This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up.  And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny.  As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

tormentos

The dfference between 360 and PS3 multiplatform games is because of the memory dude,the xbox 360 has a little more memory available for games,so don't say is nothing have you try to run windows 7 with 512MB of ram.?\

A good CPU and GPU without good ram is nothing.

[QUOTE="whitey_rolls"]

This GDDR5 thing is a joke.  People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!.  This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up.  And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny.  As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

tormentos

The dfference between 360 and PS3 multiplatform games is because of the memory dude,the xbox 360 has a little more memory available for games,so don't say is nothing have you try to run windows 7 with 512MB of ram.?\

A good CPU and GPU without good ram is nothing.

[QUOTE="voicereason"][QUOTE="spy2828"]

 

LOLWHAT? I agree with the "delusional" people. To realise how small of a diference RAM makes in system performance why don't you do a benchmark yourself?

 

First try with 8 Gigs of ram at 11-11-11-24 latency , then try with 4 Gigs, then try with 2 Gigs, then overclock it to 9-9-9 and try again.

 

After you do that you will realise the "delusional people" were right about how not important RAM is.

CallOfDutyRulez

Not if the GPU isn't strong enough.

Because this

Why don't PCs have DDR5 as system RAM? There are two reasons. For one, DDR3 actually has lower latency than DDR5, making it better for a CPU's quick-access general tasks. And while its bandwidth is a fraction of DDR5's, it is still more than adequate to provide data to the CPU. If we replaced it with gaming DDR5 we might actually see reduced CPU performance due to DDR5's increased latency.

seanmcloughlin

PCs have to do a lot more than just games and they can' afford to have a laggy CPU. This is why a lot of people are saying they think the DDR5 is gonna hold back the PS4s CPU, especially for the non gaming side of things

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="ZoomZoom2490"]

funny that esfan thinks he's some top computer engineer in the world and knows more than the tech compaines who bulld the PS4.

its disgusting watching some posts here on GS, its painful to watch.

voicereason

 

^ 100% BS

ps4 CPU will not use more than 20GB/s of memory bandwidth and the rest 156GB/s will be used by the GPU.

So the CPU is getting 20GB/s with high CAS latency.

Also GDDR5 exist on pc from 2008 as GPU memory and will never be used as main system memory.

MK-Professor

The memory speed is 5500mhz far faster than DDR3,even is only one part is recerve for GPU..

Worried about GDDR5 latencies? Don't be. Large Cache, very capable bus, shortcuts and clever data transferring between CPU and GPU make that a non-issue.

This^^.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/5/amd-kaveri-unveiled-pc-architecture-gets-gddr5.aspx

[QUOTE="whitey_rolls"]

This GDDR5 thing is a joke.  People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!.  This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up.  And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny.  As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

tormentos

The dfference between 360 and PS3 multiplatform games is because of the memory dude,the xbox 360 has a little more memory available for games,so don't say is nothing have you try to run windows 7 with 512MB of ram.?\

A good CPU and GPU without good ram is nothing.

[QUOTE="CallOfDutyRulez"]

[QUOTE="voicereason"] LOL at the pc hermits who think they know it all "Who cares about what the actual developers have said. I post on gamespot, and worship my pc daily, so therefore I know more then they all do. Hear me roar. Derp derp derp. PCs are better. GDDR5 RAM has no appliactions for gaming anyway. Derp derp derp" What is a lot of the fast RAM in the PS4 actually going to improve? Textures Transparencies Particles Lighting Animation Resolution Frame rate Open world games (see Skyrim on the PS3 for details on why RAM is so important) Loading times Persistent gameplay Number of enemies AI The PS4 will have an edge over the xbox one in all of those areasvoicereason

Not if the GPU isn't strong enough.

[QUOTE="whitey_rolls"]

This GDDR5 thing is a joke.  People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!.  This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up.  And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny.  As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

ZoomZoom2490

Hey tormentos serious question I promise :D

Why the need to consistently argue the spec difference between consoles. I mean they are both shit when compared to PC. I don't get it.

Why should I torture myself with Win7 and 512mb of RAM/?clyde46

You should not there is a reason why many people use 8GB,is not for show dude.

Is the point what you should see,Ram impact performance greatly,have to little and you will have problems.

What I think he means is that GDDR5 RAM won't make the PS4 a supercomputer like many people claimed. deeliman

It will not.

But unlike what he claims memory is important,is the reason GPU makers moved from DDR3 long ago and now use GDDR5,if memory wasn't we would still be using cheaper DDR3.

The difference in multiplats is because the 360 is easier to develop for. Cranler

No that was on 2005 2006 2007,the xbox 360 has unified memory and less bloated OS that the PS3,no matter what the PS3 can only use less than 256MB for video,the xbox 360 can use more.

[QUOTE="CallOfDutyRulez"]

[QUOTE="voicereason"] LOL at the pc hermits who think they know it all "Who cares about what the actual developers have said. I post on gamespot, and worship my pc daily, so therefore I know more then they all do. Hear me roar. Derp derp derp. PCs are better. GDDR5 RAM has no appliactions for gaming anyway. Derp derp derp" What is a lot of the fast RAM in the PS4 actually going to improve? Textures Transparencies Particles Lighting Animation Resolution Frame rate Open world games (see Skyrim on the PS3 for details on why RAM is so important) Loading times Persistent gameplay Number of enemies AI The PS4 will have an edge over the xbox one in all of those areasvoicereason

Not if the GPU isn't strong enough.

[QUOTE="deeliman"] What I think he means is that GDDR5 RAM won't make the PS4 a supercomputer like many people claimed. tormentos

It will not.

But unlike what he claims memory is important,is the reason GPU makers moved from DDR3 long ago and now use GDDR5,if memory wasn't we would still be using cheaper DDR3.

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

[QUOTE="whitey_rolls"]

This GDDR5 thing is a joke.  People act like it's going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  IT'S MEMORY PEOPLE!!!!.  This just shows the ignorance of the console gamers, the memory is useless without a good GPU and CPU to back it up.  And for those people saying "this console is better than that console due to memory" you are so wrong it's not even funny.  As we've seen previously there will be negligble difference between the two on multi plats and any difference there is won't be because of memory.

deeliman

The dfference between 360 and PS3 multiplatform games is because of the memory dude,the xbox 360 has a little more memory available for games,so don't say is nothing have you try to run windows 7 with 512MB of ram.?\

A good CPU and GPU without good ram is nothing.

[QUOTE="Cranler"] The difference in multiplats is because the 360 is easier to develop for. tormentos

No that was on 2005 2006 2007,the xbox 360 has unified memory and less bloated OS that the PS3,no matter what the PS3 can only use less than 256MB for video,the xbox 360 can use more.