How cloud computing could help Xbone and mobile gaming

Hahaha, read it again. It's nothing like that AT ALL. The game on your mobile phone or Xbox One still works without internet connection, your PSN Now game does not work without internet connection. How bad are you at understanding this stuff, if it's too hard, don't enter the discussion as if you know the ins and outs of the project.

I think the paper describes a system that works largely as SW predicted two years ago, complete with the problems predicted. What we end up with is a marrying of streaming tech and good old fashioned local gaming that sounds less appealing than either pure alternative. You're going to still need comparatively beefy client-side hardware for this approach to work vs. a fully streaming solution, yet you're not solving the biggest issue with streaming: lag.

Cloud-based computing is going to continue to grow in relevance across the software industry, but it's still my view that the concept is a dead end wrt AAA gaming for the foreseeable future. Nobody wants to be dependent on something largely outside of their control (quality and reliability of their connection) to determine how their game looks or if they even get to play at all. And for many genres, adding even a relatively small amount of lag creates an unwelcome experience. This may end up with some value for mobile gaming in the long run if mobile processing power starts to level off, since most mobile games aren't very precision oriented and the need to keep mobile devices small introduces a new variable. For home gaming, it only introduces sacrifices while trying to fix a problem better solved by having proper hardware in the first place.

If you free up resources that are usually used by the CPU then frame rates that are CPU bound would increase would they not? i am not talking about improving the machines performance, it will increase a GAMES performance on the Machine, it COULD free up enough resources to run games at 1080p with a Solid framerate.

We will just have to wait and see but you Nay-sayers about Cloud computing are going to be proved VERY wrong about how it can benefit not just gaming but Computing in general.

SONY are doing seriously well at the moment but when you look at Holo lens and The cloud it's obvious who is preparing better for the future of gaming, Just like Blu-Ray Cloud compute is going to become integral to gaming in the future, mark my words on it.

SONY will beat MS this gen and maybe the next but they are clearly not as invested in the future as MS.

Shit, i'm still waiting for 4D at 120FPS.

I don't think you understand why the Xbox One can't achieve 1080p in most games, it's nothing to do with CPU of even the GPU, it's the slow ram they have used, and the esram isn't big enough to cut it.

@tormentos: Titanfall uses cloud computing for many things. AI, matchmaking, and particle effects are the most prominent though.

Oh really ? please do explain further.

The problem is AI and some Physics offload will not do that,Titanfall offload AI to the cloud and the game is 792p and can't hold 60FPS,it has constants drops,yet games like COD are closer to 60 FPS all the time without cloud help.

No a CPU over head will not yield higher resolution,resolution is a job entirely of the GPU,if you are CPU bottleneck reducing the CPU load will not allow you to reach higher resolution,frames probably if your GPU has enough power for it.

Man you are on a lemming crusade lately which is incredible have you got an xbox one and you don't dare to say it..ahahaha

Hololems is a joke and a gimmick just like sony VR is,and the cloud is even a bigger joke an a future i don't want either,i time where my gaming depends on sony or MS is a nightmare and the reason why the xbox one was so bash.

Blu-ray is a medium on a time were games were demanding more space,MS refused to see that and suffer for it after a full generation of you lemmings claiming Blu-ray wasn't need it in the end the xbox 360 ended with the most games ever on multiple disc.

I don't think you will see MS in the console market 2 gens from now.

Does titanfall works offline.? Do drivatars work offline.? Yeah you are an idiot,if you offload resources from online cloud when the cloud is not there your game will not work period.

Is the fact that you know shit about hardware the problem,and what is been speak here is is cloud as onlive or PSN Now which is streaming of games which are been calculated already on the cloud,you could use a damn cell phone and they would work for that reason because your hardware is basically irrelevant.

Please link me to it,because from what i know Titanfall uses the cloud for AI nothing more,and matchmacking has been done for ages on servers since 2002 on xbox live cloud is a fancy name for a bunch of servers.

Quite simple really the xbox one has only 32MB of fast ram,the rest of its memory is to slow and that already slow bandwidth is shared with the CPU,which mean from the 68GB/s you only get like 38gb/s because 30GB/s are use by the system and CPU.

So most assets which require fast bandwidth most be placed on ESRAM,as long as you don't have to many fancy things and split things that don't require fast bandwidth like dead sky boxes,you can fit 1080p 60FPS Forza 5 did it,and i think is the only game that does it without dynamic switching the resolution or dropping frames like hell.

Forza 5 uses DDR3 for the sky because it is lifeless and dead,and since most effects on Forza 5 are backed they game engine can hold the 60FPS and 1080p,but why do you think Horizon isn't 60FPS.? Weather alone would require ESRAM so there is no enough room for more,without sacrificing something in this case frames.

The same happen with Tomb Raider and Sniper Elite the xbox one 1080p suffer greatly in frames.

Several developers have speak on the matter already ESRAM is to small for certain things,and since most engines aren't don't just thinking solely of the xbox one it hurt the xbox one,but even on games created solely for the xbox one like Killer Instinct 1080p wasn't achievable either,so it is not an easy thing to pull unless you lower your game to fit the xbox one as target Like Bungie did with Destiny or Ubi did with ACU.

But you already knew that right.?

Lol wtf does that have to do with anything. READ THE PAPER. It's not streaming, the game can still work without the cloud being there, it just looks better if the cloud is available. This is the last thing I say about it, you clearly haven't read it, or you are a new kind of stupid. Last time I'll explain it to you.

Internet connection available:

Console => start game => SOME frames calculated at cloud => Game looks amazing

Internet connection not available:

Console => start game => Can't connect => Game looks ok-ish

If you have an internet connection, the cloud will produce frames and send it to your console, but only to SUPPORT the frames the console already created. When you don't have an internet connection, the game will just look worse. Not that hard to understand, and they gave a clear picture to explain it. Just read it, and please try to understand it, because this is NOTHING like PS Now. If you still think it's the same, then don't respond to me, because I'm done.

Does Titanfall works without the cloud.? Do Drivatars work without the cloud.?

Those games don't use this kind of technology... Is this just some bad trolling?

Because MS doesn't have it and the cloud they have is not like that,maybe for the next xbox if there is one.

Physics shouldn't really be paired in the same league as AI in terms of bandwidth needed to produce through the cloud.

Physics requires a lot more than AI....

This is a Microsoft research paper, using the Microsoft cloud. It is there, and it will be here in the coming 2-3 years.

Stupid, keep your mouth shut about things that are above your pay-grade.

I typically ignore him - responding to his posts somehow makes me feel like i am lowering myself.

While this is strictly a research paper, this kind of system could work long term and be a better fit for consoles than simple game streaming. Not only does the hybrid system use less bandwidth, it would give Sony and Microsoft both a way to continue building differentiated systems that combine higher-power client hardware with powerful server backends.

From OP own link..

My god after all the fail argument on hardware you have seeing you say this is a joke,you think that what you do is even close to making a game which is total bullshit and has been proven 100 times.

It's been known for centuries that Cows are easily spooked by Cloudzz.... mean ole Xbox you. :P

Don't have a clue what you want to say by that...

'the cloud is even a bigger joke an a future i don't want either'

Bullshit, more and more business's are embracing Cloud compute, Azure is already used to monitor Formula 1 cars in real time and MS have already proved that Cloud CAN enhance games in may ways, Drivatars which are way more advanced than the Bot cars you see on Driveclub or Gran tourismo and i guarantee you won't see a game with the same level of destruction Physics as crackdown on the Ps4 until SONY pull there fingers out of there backside and put there Cloud compute house in order, Titanfall also proves that cloud compute can improve the stability of online gaming

Cloud is also Microsofts new Cash cow so it must be doing well

'Man you are on a lemming crusade lately which is incredible have you got an xbox one and you don't dare to say it..ahahaha'

No i don't have an Xbox one and i never will, this isn't about the Xbone it's about Sad individuals like you who cannot see what the future holds, i don't need to be an xbox Fan to see that Cloud compute is going to change gaming for the better whether we want it or not is neither here not there, it's coming whether you like it or not/

I started gaming on a keyboard, then a Joystick and eventually a controller, things change, they move on, if you want to be stuck in the past then be my guest but some of us Embrace change and and are ready to move on to bigger things when it comes to gaming.

Cloud compute on consoles may be limited at the moment but thats definitely going to change and you just cannot entertain or stand the thought that Microsoft is pushing future Technology that WILL be relevent to gaming in the future

You remind me of those people that still insist the world is flat or the Sun revolves around the earth

'I don't think you will see MS in the console market 2 gens from now.'

Only in your wildest dreams, they are a Major player now with enough Marketshare to make it Viable for them to stay in the console business.

If anything it's SONY that will fade when everyone else embraces Cloud compute for games, something they Cannot compete in at the moment, Microsft is regarded in the industry as Number one when it comes to Cloud compute, SONY isn't even in the top ten,Even Amazon has a better cloud compute infrastructure.

Call me a lemming all you want, better that than to be called a Cow doesn't change the fact that gaming is changing and moving more towards an 'always online' model and Cloud compute will play a huge part in that whether it's on a Microsoft console is neither here nor there, it's coming either way, embrace it or step aside.

OMG lemmings still bring up this cloud bullsh*t. Any person with minimal IT knowledge and programming skills knows perfectly that cloud computing can do shit for gaming except for saving your in-game progress. It still takes 1-2 sec to open one single web page on internet, how do you expect to use that in video gaming that requires 1-nm of response time ? Besides no modern server could ever withstand that kind of a requests load per user. It's a technological impossibility. How many calls GPU does to CPU during gaming ? Billions per second ? Once again, it takes 1-2 secs to open just one web page like Gamespot or IGN. Scaled that to gaming demands LMAO It's like you need open several billions of pages in one second PER USER. No server could deal with that load of work. No internet speed is available to perform something like that.

The only error I have made thus far was my initial frame rate estimations... almost 3 years ago.

You are viewing cloud computing from the wrong perspective. If other things can be pushed to the cloud, the CPU and GPU can be freed up to produce better frame rates and resolution.

Still, this only applies to online gaming.

WTF.? I am not a fu**ing Formula 1 driver or hold a formula 1 car,keeping some freaking states is not the same as streaming power through a damn cloud.

Drivatars are lame ghost like copy of your driving skills is a set of stats that tell the game how good or bad you drive nothing out of this world and again not what MS was advertising the damn cloud for.

That is funny because the PS4 can actually use compute for Physics and has the results back in the same frame,is not like running Physic on PS4 will destroy the console,by the way what happen to your physics if the cloud fail your internet is out or live is down.? Yeah you are fu**.

That is the reason why most games stay away from MS cloud,even that it was suppose to be free for them.

The cloud is just a bunch of servers dude is just a name facade or a mask.

Hahahahaa been stock on the pass... So this is the same fool who was fighting a year ago about staying on last gen because he didn't like the PS4 or xbox one.? Really.?

Have you jumped into the next gen yet.?

Yeah it will be so relevant a gen were your games run on a MS cloud which MS can decide what games lives and what games die,yeah that is surely what i want to so they can yearly kill games to make you move,have you even read the rights with digital games only vs physical copies.?

Again talking bullshit when this gen you have been hiding on tablets,at least i showed up for the generation you still on PS3 and xbox 360 and now tablets which is as shallow as it can get.

Are you for real the 360 had 83 million units and investors wanted it dead,there is far more money for MS on cloud and services than gaming and investors know that if the xbox one luck doesn't change i don't see MS been here 2 gens from now,as it is they are losing money on it something that wasn't on their plan this gen.

And we loss you now you are 100% lemming Blackace level...hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

But but but sony is going bankrupt yeah how did that worked this gen.

Do me a favor before you claim that i like to stay in the past jump first into this fu**ing gen either on xbox one or PS4,because i did and you still late,by all means go back to play candy crush on your tablet.

You should read the paper, before making assumptions of what it is actually doing.

the cloud in its current state is good for backups but that's about it. Cloud computing will not take off till internet infrastructures greatly evolve beyond the trash most people have at the moment.

nearly 3 years later and people still don't seem to understand that simple fact.

@tormentos: Your fanboyism and ignorance is... staggering.

Good for backups? So building development environments and compute applications doesn't happen? Are you just making this up? because right now as we speak im staring at azure and all the services it provides that go beyond "backup"

@tormentos:

Of course this proves though that you do learn but you are still missing important elements of how all of this works. The current state of the api does not allow you explicit control over sram. Im not sure what kind of magic math you are doing to determine bandwidth but I will not even argue with you on it because non of that makes any sense. In order for the frame to get to the screen in the X1 it is more beneficial for the framebuffer(s) to live in the system memory vs. the "scratch pad" type memory used for gpu task . Although it would be ideal for the framebuffer to live in a contiguous block of memory it is not needed, as dme's can shift it back to system ram for very low cost. But you knew that already right?

You can offload some CPU process GPU ones i don't think so,GPU work on bandwidth which are GB per second,hell even CPU do,have you try to download 1GB file on your connection how much it takes.? 2 minutes 5 minutes.?

Yeah take that time and multiply it by 140 times how much does it take.? Yeah hours and hours when that kind of Data can be handle by ESRAM every second. That is the reason you can't do anything great on cloud and that without saying that GPU like the 7970 or even 7950 have way more bandwidth than 140GB/s.

No your fanboysm and lack of knowledge on how GPU works is the problem,even a damn 7750 has a bandwidth which over shadows the best online connections,even the PS3 has higher bandwidth to.

You can't offload GPU process to the cloud ESRAM exist inside the freaking xbox one because 68GB/s isn't enough for its GPU and CPU,and all of the sudden a damn 25MB connection which i don't think is even the average most people has will be enough to handle those GPU and CPU task..hahaha

Get this the xbox one on ESRAM alone pass some 140 to 150GB/s that is a SECOND every damn Second it passes 150GB, even 100MB connection pale in comparison with that kind of data movement buffoon.

Come on man is the level of control over ESRAM the problem,but the actual fact that for a 1080p buffer with certain quality and effects it is not viable.

No dude you can't use system memory as main buffer because DDR3 is to slow,the xbox one has 8GB of DDR3 that connection has 68GB/s bandwidth it doesn't have multiple 68GB/s connections the system and CPU take 30GB/s of that bandwidth that mean only 38GB/s are free which is to small for a GPU like a 7770 or better that on PC have 72GB/s or better this is where ESRAM comes is as basically a programmable scratch pad,ESRAM is what is use as buffer because it has higher bandwidth connection to the GPU 140Gb/s to 150GB/s so anything that need a fast bandwidth goes on ESRAM.

Sky Boxes like the sky on Forza 5 since they are dead and not dynamic can be placed on main pool of memory which is what turn 10 did with Forza 5 and advise other developers to do.

Funny enough MGS5 was 720p on xbox one but aside from the frame buffer problem because it is a heavily deferred game with tons of effects,MGS5 had a dynamic sky on PS4 it was on xbox one it was dead because it didn't fit even on a 720p resolution.

@tormentos: Dude, seriously - READ MY GODDAMN POST. I specifically said:

"If other things can be pushed to the cloud, the CPU and GPU can be freed up to produce better frame rates and resolution."

I said NOTHING about offloading GPU processes to the cloud. It cannot be done right now. Maybe in 5-10 years, but not now.

You don't get it you don't get better resolution by offloading CPU process you do so by offloading GPU ones and the cloud is not up to that task.

Freeing up CPU and GPU is offloading process to the cloud buffoon.

are u just now learning this?

Umm... you know, the CPU can do graphics (just not nearly as well as a GPU)...

If non-rendering processes are offloaded, the processors will have more resources to allocate to rendering. Is this that hard to understand?

I know. The level of cow just keeps rising. I always hold out hope it will at least plateau.

I also get lots of PMs asking em why I bother.

QFT...El tormented is a "special" kind of ignorant

On consoles the rendering is done by GPU not CPU,in other words rendering your UI and game is done poorly on GPU,so saving CPU time will not rise resolution period,even Cell was a Joke rendering and is a hybrid quite capable of beating that Jaguar on PS4 on GPU task.

You can't offload GPU task to the cloud Physics were normally ran on CPU alto GPU are better at it,so you can offload that but rendering and other more complex GPU process that requires fast bandwidth will be impossible on the cloud as simple as that.

That is funny because outside the circle of lemmings you are a joke of a poster which still believe coding for dot is the same as making a damn game get a clue.

Oh you are quite more special...lol

So it'll be no different than MMOs which have been popular on PC for close to 20 years?

Requiring an internet connection to play is not some great, undue burden in 2015.

I'm still skeptical of Cloud processing with regards to console gaming, but I believe the technology has great potential. Every new tech has growing pains and the adoption of Cloud (remote computing) to console games will be no different.

Watching the mouth-breathing fanboys who populate this forum lambaste a technology they barely understand (or anyone understands for that matter considering its application in games is still in its infancy) is humorous none the less. Attempting to make definitive determinations on what the technology "can or can't do" is asinine this early in its development. Microsoft has supplied a decent number of additions to console technology over the past 14 years and I bet Cloud will be the next.

We'll see at E3 2015.

Yeah those have been Huge in consoles right.? You know MMO are popular on PC for the same reason digital content by download is also more popular on PC.?

Those were born on PC and online gaming on PC also beat console online gaming,when live started online was already huge on PC and MMO were there already.

So you are comparing 2 platforms with different structure digital only has been OK on PC for years,MS try to do that and the xbox one sales thanked,the PSP go suffer even a more abysmal fate for trying all digital,PC and consoles are different in some regards despite its many similarities.

What have they has add to gaming that wasn't already there.? Achievement.? Microtransactions.? Paying for online play.? Because online gaming and voice chat is not under their belt of achievement those were here before live even was.

And when you prove to me that your connection can download or stream 140GB of data in 1 second then i believe anything say about the cloud,GPU effects can't be offloaded to a cloud hell CPU ones most be simple in order for it to work,which is why you don't see developers flocking to use MS free cloud.

Yeah, this cloud stuff is all wonderful with limitless cloud computation, and a perfect network. Sadly it doesn't work anywhere near that good once you get to the realities of a true home gaming environment where you're going to need be serving millions of gamers, simultaneously, on networks that are all over the place performance wise. The simple truth is, outside of MMOs which can share the computation results between hundreds of users, it isn't economical or practical to use it for anything serious and unless they break the speed of light, it probably never will be.

But if it's something you can't interact with, why does it matter if it's physics based? The building can only crumble once in a game, so does it matter if it's calculated on the fly as opposed to pre-scripted? How would you know the difference if you didn't play the same section over and over, and why would you care?

'Again talking bullshit when this gen you have been hiding on tablets,at least i showed up for the generation you still on PS3 and xbox 360 and now tablets which is as shallow as it can get.'

Wow, resorting to personal attacks now and PROVE i am talking bullshit about the Cloud.

SONY's cloud infrastructure is rubbish compared to Microsofts, sorry of the truth hurts but thats just the way it is.

'Hahahahaa been stock on the pass... So this is the same fool who was fighting a year ago about staying on last gen because he didn't like the PS4 or xbox one.? Really.?'

Do you even read my posts? i was talking about Cloud compute for game a few generations down the line, the fact that MS is preparing for the FUTURE of gaming, not in the here and now Because the Cloud WILL become VERY relevant to gaming in a few generations time.

Also, it has nothing to do with being stuck in the past i just don't think either of the consoles is worth dropping so much money on when they have so few games i actually want to play, 2 games so far that are both Multiplat and one isn't even released yet Witcher 3 and WH40k Deathwing are the only games that look appealing that i cannot get on my 360.

and i don't have to own a current gen console to have my say, public board dude.

'The cloud is just a bunch of servers dude is just a name facade or a mask.'

this just proves you know **** all about Cloud compute and it's applications, how does 'just a bunch of servers' handle the AI for a massive online game like Titanfall.

Everyone on here knows you are talking tosh unless they are as Naive about the Cloud as you are mate.

Your problem is you try to Sound like you know something about it but you just come off talking Smack with no credible argument to back up anything you say.

Plenty of people have provided evidence that cloud compute is more than just a 'bunch of servers' you have provided ZERO proof to debunk any of it Beyond 'bu-bu-bu Microsoft are lying'

A bold statement that you cannot back up, beginning to see a trend here?

'But but but sony is going bankrupt yeah how did that worked this gen.'

I never once stated SONY would go Bankrupt, i even made a bet that Kaz would turn things around, shame i lost that bet but hey, more bullshit from your end.

'Again talking bullshit when this gen you have been hiding on tablets,at least i showed up for the generation you still on PS3 and xbox 360 and now tablets which is as shallow as it can get.'

Oh look, another failed attempt at attacking me personally which just bounced off into the wilderness, AGAIN.

How many times do you have to be told that attacking someone personally doesn't give more Credence to what you are saying?

Please explain how gaming on Tablets is as 'Shallow as it gets' beyond your own personal opinion, Besides the fact that my tablet went out about 4 weeks ago and i have been playing Forza horizon 2, Need for speed rivals, dead space 3 and Skyrim on my 360.

'Drivatars are lame ghost like copy of your driving skills is a set of stats that tell the game how good or bad you drive nothing out of this world and again not what MS was advertising the damn cloud for.'

No it isn't tormentos, Ignoring all the evidence everyone else provided to destroy this Stupid argument will not change that, the more you drive the more your drivatar learns the better it Drives it's not just a bunch of stats.

Tell me eltormo, Can ghost Cars go and win or lose random races for you whilst you are not even playing the game?

You like to Downplay everything Microsoft does and up play everything SONY does, Microsoft have added plenty of new and innovative features to game consoles, HDD as standard, First HD console, Achievements, Intergrated online play out of the Box, Game installs to HDD's and now Cloud compute not to mention the first console to use Unified shader architecture.

You SONY types just think you should have the Sandbox to yourself and you get all Agressive and unfriendly if someone else tries to join in the sandbox

'play candy crush on your tablet.'

Yeah, but no, more like shadowgun, Kotor, Baldurs gate, bulders gate 2, Oddworld Strangers wraith, Shadowrun returns, asphalt 8, Fear effect 2, MGS, final fantasy 7 and a Zillion spectrum 48k games.

Pull your head out form your backside and stop making baseless assumptions about....well just about everything really.

Lets get this straight i am not attacking you personally and if that is what you get from that,i am sorry i would never do that,that is my posting style you know it,i would not attack you personally less you who have stand for me when you have see offensive things against me from other lemmings,So if you really think i attacked you personally or offended you i am sorry bro you know my posting style and that wasn't my intention.

Lets agree to disagree. :)

There is a difference between calling you out and attacking some one personally,Delta believe i attacked him personally so i apologize for it.

He is a lemming that is not a persona attack.. :)

@tormentos: Umm... yes you can.

And, considering you know absolutely nothing - NOTHING - about software development makes is quite laughable that you would debate me on the subject.

And finally, I give Sony credit when credit's due. I don't hate them or the PS4. You, on the other hand, are a rabid moo-cow who never says anything positive about anything that isn't Sony. Want to see a rabid fanboy? Look in the mirror.

This is all interesting future tech. I can see it really coming to be on the Next Xbox. The ground work could be laid out this gen to get started.

@delta3074: @tormentos comments remind me of the early 90s when people said "The Internet is a fad." or that "Client-Server relational database solutions are just the flavor of the month."