Gamespot : 500$ PC outperforms both PS4 and X1

Does it make you angry... Peasantstation 4 being outperformed by a low end PC?

It has to be 10 times the raw power all round, not just GPU grunt. No PC is powerful enough to emulate PS3 or 360 never mind PS4. Even PS2 is faulty.

PS4 OS is running on top of it's bios, where as games are running under the OS. The software drivers are all in low level among the bios in consoles like it has always been. The OS is a front end to use the functions of the PS4. Commodore 64 had 64kb of ram with only 35kb available to the developer. What did the developer do? Code low level and ran the game underneath the C64 OS (C64 Basic) and gained access to the full 64kb of ram the machine had. The fact is, consoles can be fully accessed. PC games are coded to a common API, PS4 games are coded to the metal. Xbox Original was x86 and it certainly performed better than a 700MHz PC with a Geforce 3. The CPU is weak for sure, but then so was the SNES CPU, it was the graphics components it had that made it look good, and regardless of them being less powerful graphics chips than the VGA cards in PC's at the time, and having a much slower CPU than a 386, it's games looked much better because devs utilized the hardware. So what your saying is that optimization will be about the same as PC optimization now? Even though PC's are ever changing hardware and are impossible to fully utilize because of this? PS4 will see great speed increase over similar powered PC's, same with XB1.

http://gamingbolt.com/ps4s-high-gpu-performance-allows-optimization-experimentation-api-allows-strict-process-control

PC devs can not strictly utilize sections of the hardware because the hardware is never the same twice. PS4, and all consoles have always had this advantage.

Do you deny that modded GTA 4 looked better than any last gen console game? I'm just playing devils advocate here but it's not as much of a reach as you think.

Your off course here, Devs can max out gpu's on Pc, When a game is at 100% usage its using all its processing power for the tasks at hand. Now granted you may not use every bit of memory. or specifically design a game to fit a certain gpu and use every last once of processing power and designate every little thing. But API's like Mantle is a more direct path in access the hardware bypassing directx libraries so yes devs can in a sense more or less max out gpus. PowerPc is nothing like x86 coding wise. Which is why you will never see PS4 physically running PS3 games or 360 games on the X1, without them going back and recoding the games or just take pc ports that have been already converted and tweak them for use. Emulating a single thread on x86 is one thing but having to emulate multiple threads on a cpu that does not have the brute processing power to do so is another problem.

Comparing Sega's Dreamcast and Nintendo's use of these cpu's is nothing like comparing the 360's cpu. All the others were using one core being single threaded while 360's cpu had three cores during a time frame where nothing was multithreaded. Early games only used one core on the 360 which is why games became more lively able to do more later down the down road. They had to wait and design the software and games to make use of all the cpu cores there. You comparing Halo 3 to 4 is off because Halo 3's engine was based from Halo's 2 engine and they did not make use of all the cores nor did it push and make full use of the 360's gpu when Halo 3 came out. It wasnt until ODST where the engine was updated where the hardware was being used more correctly. But Halo4's was a new engine designed from the ground up for the 360.

Optimization= fitting the software to the hardware's abilities to a set standard. These new consoles are nothing like their previous predecessors, where the software had to be built and learned from the ground up having to figure out the proprietary hardware using these multithreaded coding and then having to learn the new gpu architecture.They this time around know what their doing and know what they have and what to work with. The only aspect developers may have to learn and design around will be the ESRAM on the X1. These new consoles are virtually x86 pc's with minor tweaks using AMD cpu's with AMD GCN based gpu's using API's based from pc's. Fact is we will not see the same evolution in quality or performance as we have seen in the past with these new consoles. They will hit a plateau much quicker and sooner then the 360 or PS3 did.

So answer me this.

Do you think PC's can have games at least as efficiently coded with mantle as the PS4 could, and hit the hardware just as effectively?

PS4 games run underneath the OS. Low level hardware functions are in use while a PS4 game is running, you can not run another game if one is already running because it would have to switch resources at low level which would be unfeasible. Only certain apps can be run while a game is running because they are built in to the OS, or run on top. Mantle is great, and it will create an even bigger performance gap between PC's and Consoles, but consoles will always have far better access to it's hardware. And that was my argument all along.

Now about the C64. What I meant to actually say was, if the developer wanted, he could bypass the C64 blue screen (C64 Basic) and get full access to the 64kb and other hardware components like the hardware scrolling chip via machine code. Devs have the freedom to do that on PS4 if they wanted. Literally disable fundamental OS functions while the game is running however I read that Devs need Sony's permission to get access to more ram.

PS4 OS is for other console functions like Web browsing and Videos etc. Games run underneath it which is why they are not multitask-able.

i dont think the gpu usage % in programs like evga precision-x is entirely accurate. ive tried to look around for an in depth explanation on exactly what it measures with no success. Theres also hardware in pc gpus that cant be used because direct x doesnt supply access to them(msaa compression hardware).

DId people in this thread actually read the page in which they did benchmarks at ultra settings at 1080p with the AMD build? I see a lot of people still saying the ps4 offers the same or better experience... Can anyone explain to me when the ps4 started pulling pc ultra like settings? Because I have all ways been under the impressions it's more on the medium/low for most things and high for some others with almost no aliasing to boot.

@Jankarcop said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@Jankarcop said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@melonfarmerz said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@Jankarcop said:

@xboxdone74 said:

Unfortunately doesn't outperform in goty exclusives.

But it does outperform in AAA, AA, online, and multiplats.

Which would people rather have? (The answer is PC, as it has more players)

You've been avoiding my question so many times. How about you answer mine. Do you even have a gaming PC?

And also, are you 14. Judging by your post history, I wouldn't be surprised.

And to answer your question with my opinion, because PC gaming entitles a different type of gaming.

LoL came out in 2009

SC2 came out in 2010

GW2 came out in 2011

CS:GO came out in 2012

Dota 2 came out in 2013

So you see, for the past 5 years, we have 5 games that are the height of eSports. Each of these draw in crowds of hundreds of thousands and the players get paid millions. LoL filled up the entire fucking Staples center last year and each of these have a larger following than most actual sports. I highly doubt you have touched any of these games.

Most PC gamers have thousands of hours invested into each of these games and 5 years down the road, they will still be played competitively. Just like SC:BW and WC3 from years before.

Now we look at the console side. We have games like UC and TLoU. Great games, but games you play in one 20 hour play through and never play again. However, you still go on internet forums telling everyone how great these games are. You know why you never hear about the games I just mentioned on this forum? Because they each have their own forum with MILLIONS of users.

TLoU wins GOTY awards from generic sites like Gamespot and IGN, as expected, but in 5 years, what will happen? Literally nobody will ever talk about TLoU. Counter Strike GO and Starcraft will still be hosting million dollar tournaments and hundreds of thousands of players will still be putting in hours and hours into the games. Console gaming is casual. You have games that feel like movies. On this forum, where the vast majority of you are console gamers, you don't understand how PC gaming works. You think that we play games like that too and assume PC gaming is dying because we have a lack of "movie games", or as you would call them, AAA. Sure, when I'm bored, I might play some BF or AC but for the most part, PC gaming is much more competitive and complicated. To say its dead is just retarded. Esports is responsible for the recent boom in gaming. And which platform is responsible for esports?

Now you know why AAA titles on consoles win more GOTY's. They are casual mediums that go through casual sites to appeal to the casual gamer. If you want to play things with skill and depth, that turn off a lot of casual people on the console, hence skimming by sites like Gamespot, then you go PC.

But that's still no excuse for PC not winning any significant awards or the extremely low release count of good non indie exclusive .

And lol at the esports argument, so because a game is played competitively it's good? No that means it's popular, that's all.

PC gaming has become worse, in quality and quantity.

Sit the **** down liar:

http://systemwarsmagazine.com/gamespot-reviews-spreadsheet/

And yet with all of those "quality" PC exclusives, PC can't seem to win a GOTY? Why? Because most of the PC exclusives are indies and most of them are of lower quality than non indie games. (that's normal, you can't expect the same quality for a game that's developed by 10 devs in comparison to a team of 100+ devs.) And indie games are giving scores based on different standards than games made by the big developers, that's why PC has so many "good" exclusives.

1. I didn't ask for your shitty opinion. Put up data links or gtfo.

2. Most ofthose AA+ PC titles are not INDY games. Lie more?

3. INDY have won countless GOTY awards and make up PS4's very few high scoring exclusives...

Did you hear that, a majority of PS4's high scoring titles are indy , more than PC.

Proof of this fact : http://systemwarsmagazine.com/gamespot-reviews-spreadsheet/

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA! Truth hurts doesn't it hermit?

"Most of those AA+ PC titles are not INDY games."

Yes they are you fool.

--Some are, some aren't. No different than the PS4's library.

And did I say all indies were bad? No, but most of them are of low quality.

--That's why Sony is working so hard to try to get as many indie games as possible on the PS4 right? Microsoft too. Everybody recognizes the quality and creativity coming from indie developers. Honestly, I'm looking forward to games like The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, The Forest and Routine just as much as big budget games on PC or PS4.

Also LOL, striking through my post won't change the truth.

Think about it, I know hard for you, but try. I asked this question a thousand times and you never answer it.

With all of those "quality" PC exclusives, PC can't seem to win a GOTY? Why? And you know the answer, the answer is what I wrote. Keep living in denial though, it's highly amusing!

its on medium/low for 1 thing, terrain decoration. the rest are ultra or high. Read the digital foundry face off.

So answer me this.

Do you think PC's can have games at least as efficiently coded with mantle as the PS4 could, and hit the hardware just as effectively?

PS4 games run underneath the OS. Low level hardware functions are in use while a PS4 game is running, you can not run another game if one is already running because it would have to switch resources at low level which would be unfeasible. Only certain apps can be run while a game is running because they are built in to the OS, or run on top. Mantle is great, and it will create an even bigger performance gap between PC's and Consoles, but consoles will always have far better access to it's hardware. And that was my argument all along.

Now about the C64. What I meant to actually say was, if the developer wanted, he could bypass the C64 blue screen (C64 Basic) and get full access to the 64kb and other hardware components like the hardware scrolling chip via machine code. Devs have the freedom to do that on PS4 if they wanted. Literally disable fundamental OS functions while the game is running however I read that Devs need Sony's permission to get access to more ram.

PS4 OS is for other console functions like Web browsing and Videos etc. Games run underneath it which is why they are not multitask-able.

I can afford a gaming PC if I want, but what would be the point? I have everything I pretty much need with PS4. Unless I want to play some kind of strategy game ike Starcraft, which I can play on a regular pc.

@Suppaman100 said:

@Jankarcop said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@Jankarcop said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@melonfarmerz said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@Jankarcop said:

@xboxdone74 said:

Unfortunately doesn't outperform in goty exclusives.

But it does outperform in AAA, AA, online, and multiplats.

Which would people rather have? (The answer is PC, as it has more players)

You've been avoiding my question so many times. How about you answer mine. Do you even have a gaming PC?

And also, are you 14. Judging by your post history, I wouldn't be surprised.

And to answer your question with my opinion, because PC gaming entitles a different type of gaming.

LoL came out in 2009

SC2 came out in 2010

GW2 came out in 2011

CS:GO came out in 2012

Dota 2 came out in 2013

So you see, for the past 5 years, we have 5 games that are the height of eSports. Each of these draw in crowds of hundreds of thousands and the players get paid millions. LoL filled up the entire fucking Staples center last year and each of these have a larger following than most actual sports. I highly doubt you have touched any of these games.

Most PC gamers have thousands of hours invested into each of these games and 5 years down the road, they will still be played competitively. Just like SC:BW and WC3 from years before.

Now we look at the console side. We have games like UC and TLoU. Great games, but games you play in one 20 hour play through and never play again. However, you still go on internet forums telling everyone how great these games are. You know why you never hear about the games I just mentioned on this forum? Because they each have their own forum with MILLIONS of users.

TLoU wins GOTY awards from generic sites like Gamespot and IGN, as expected, but in 5 years, what will happen? Literally nobody will ever talk about TLoU. Counter Strike GO and Starcraft will still be hosting million dollar tournaments and hundreds of thousands of players will still be putting in hours and hours into the games. Console gaming is casual. You have games that feel like movies. On this forum, where the vast majority of you are console gamers, you don't understand how PC gaming works. You think that we play games like that too and assume PC gaming is dying because we have a lack of "movie games", or as you would call them, AAA. Sure, when I'm bored, I might play some BF or AC but for the most part, PC gaming is much more competitive and complicated. To say its dead is just retarded. Esports is responsible for the recent boom in gaming. And which platform is responsible for esports?

Now you know why AAA titles on consoles win more GOTY's. They are casual mediums that go through casual sites to appeal to the casual gamer. If you want to play things with skill and depth, that turn off a lot of casual people on the console, hence skimming by sites like Gamespot, then you go PC.

But that's still no excuse for PC not winning any significant awards or the extremely low release count of good non indie exclusive .

And lol at the esports argument, so because a game is played competitively it's good? No that means it's popular, that's all.

PC gaming has become worse, in quality and quantity.

Sit the **** down liar:

http://systemwarsmagazine.com/gamespot-reviews-spreadsheet/

And yet with all of those "quality" PC exclusives, PC can't seem to win a GOTY? Why? Because most of the PC exclusives are indies and most of them are of lower quality than non indie games. (that's normal, you can't expect the same quality for a game that's developed by 10 devs in comparison to a team of 100+ devs.) And indie games are giving scores based on different standards than games made by the big developers, that's why PC has so many "good" exclusives.

1. I didn't ask for your shitty opinion. Put up data links or gtfo.

2. Most ofthose AA+ PC titles are not INDY games. Lie more?

3. INDY have won countless GOTY awards and make up PS4's very few high scoring exclusives...

Did you hear that, a majority of PS4's high scoring titles are indy , more than PC.

Proof of this fact : http://systemwarsmagazine.com/gamespot-reviews-spreadsheet/

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA! Truth hurts doesn't it hermit?

"Most of those AA+ PC titles are not INDY games."

Yes they are you fool.

--Some are, some aren't. No different than the PS4's library.

And did I say all indies were bad? No, but most of them are of low quality.

--That's why Sony is working so hard to try to get as many indie games as possible on the PS4 right? Microsoft too. Everybody recognizes the quality and creativity coming from indie developers. Honestly, I'm looking forward to games like The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, The Forest and Routine just as much as big budget games on PC or PS4.

Also LOL, striking through my post won't change the truth.

Think about it, I know hard for you, but try. I asked this question a thousand times and you never answer it.

With all of those "quality" PC exclusives, PC can't seem to win a GOTY? Why? And you know the answer, the answer is what I wrote. Keep living in denial though, it's highly amusing!

I couldn't care less about imaginary GOTY distinctions. It's nothing but a popularity contest. If I thought like you I would have to worship movies like Crash and Chicago as some of the best films of all time and my favorite music would be from artists like Miley Cyrus, Lorde and Katy Perry. Luckily I think for myself and use my own judgement, and I'm really not concerned with what the mainstream thinks. If I like something that is popular, fine, that's great. If I don't like something that is popular, that's fine too.

Your obsession with the whole GOTY thing is comical to me.

its more then just one thing... lol its funny you put a few of the issues into one category. You have lower texture resolutions for ground, lack of or just plain lower quality 3d objects like most of the small rocks, lower quality and vegetation density. And and draw distance for these elements is closer-field too... (So things like bushes and patches of grass just pop in right in front of you).

Now moving away from just the terrain aspects of the downgrades. Lower LOD on most objects, lower quality shadows or lack there of... The PS4 and Xbox One versions of Battlefield 4 have comparable effects quality as PC on high and ultra settings (as opposed to full ultra settings). The upscale process from lower resolutions does muddy the clarity of water shaders on consoles. depth-of-field isn't as intense on PC during cut-scenes. This helps hide the cut down geometry and objects on PS4 and Xbox One at certain distances. And the fact that both consoles are running resolutions below 1080

So a GOTY = a popularity contest by your views? So by your logic, COD, wii sports or pokemon should take the prize without any doubt then.

But it doesn't. Come on now, this "bu..bu..GOTY=popularity contest" is just another attempt at damage control. Truth is GOTY is a prize given to the best game of the year, not the most popular. And PC fails to get any GOTY for the last couple of years.

Surely using a mouse and keyboard would be better for shooters.

Of course it's a popularity contest. The games that win GOTY are the games that received the most votes from editors at game sites. People can vote with their wallets by actually buying a game and if a game sells a lot this shows popularity among regular gamers. If a game wins GOTY at a site or multiple sites this shows popularity among gaming journalists. Either way it boils down to subjective opinion. I'm never going to let my choices be dictated by the opinions of others. There have been GOTY winners that I didn't particularly enjoy, as well as games that won no GOTY awards that ended up being among my favorite games of all time.

I find it absurd that you discard the opinions of regular gamers when they vote with their wallets, but you somehow take the word of game journalists as the gospel truth. Do you honestly believe that the opinions of those that happen to write about games hold any more weight than the opinions of any one of us gamers? If you do, I pity you.

I vastly prefer a platform with a larger library of quality titles to choose from (to find games that suit my particular tastes) over a platform with one or two GOTY winners in an entire generation.

@Suppaman100: Looking at steam alone this is what I see:

Strategy, RTS, first person shooters, third person shooters, simulators, fighitng games, racing games, sports games, horror games, platformers, adventure games, hack and slash, beat them ups, shoot them ups, a good chunk of the most well known titles are also on Steam so...

As a PC-only gamer it doesn't look like i'm missing much on anything worth mentioning outside exclusives, and I really see no reason to spend up to 600 dollars to play only one or two games just because they are "award winning exclusives"

Yeah and most of those genres are infested with indies.

Uhu, and yet with all of those great AAA exclusive PC games, none are worthy of GOTY. Weird.

But hey if you're happy with indies then that's fine. But it seems you guys are not though. Keep begging for GTA V though.

No. No it won't.

Yeah and most of those genres are infested with indies.

Uhu, and yet with all of those great AAA exclusive PC games, none are worthy of GOTY. Weird.

But hey if you're happy with indies then that's fine. But it seems you guys are not though. Keep begging for GTA V though.

Yeah and most of those genres are infested with indies.

Uhu, and yet with all of those great AAA exclusive PC games, none are worthy of GOTY. Weird.

But hey if you're happy with indies then that's fine. But it seems you guys are not though. Keep begging for GTA V though.

Looking at last gen and current gen, Most of PC's aaa-aa games are not INDY.

However, most of PS4's games currently ARE INDY.

Self Owned.

You seem to imply indies are horrible, yet the PS3 has an indie title that actually won GOTY on several websites (Journey)

About the genres, I didn't know street fighter, desu ex, borderlands, NBA 2K, Bioshock, Mortal Kombat, Resident Evil, Ninja Gaiden or even FIFA were indies...

These games and genres are on the PC, there's nothing really missing outside of exclusives

And I don't recall ever singing up a petition for GTA V, i'm not excactly losing sleep over it, yet you seem to be very resentful against the PC gamers that actually want it

Anyway... I guess i'll continue to play indies like borderlands 2 since apparently the PC has nothing but indies

Come off it man. How am I? All I'm trying to say is that consoles do not work like PC's regardless of it being x86. The software is designed differently for better access to the hardware. How is that embarrassing myself? I am aware PC's are more powerful. I was just making that point.

@Suppaman100: You said PC is missing out on genres, you never said exclusives, a lot of the most well known and well played genres are on the PC with the multiplats, so in the end the PC is not missing out, I can be a PC only gamer and still enjoy the same genres console gamers play

You may not be a PC hater but you sure love to pretend indies are horrible or simply pretend indies don't even exist, I think the point was proven, PC is not missing out on anything other than console exclusives

US ONLY. over here in uk it would cost much more than ps4

Ye..NO. Get me a list of all those games then. (and I want non indie exclusives, don't come up with multiplats that are also on consoles)

You're right. But those console exclusives are the best what gaming have to offer these last years imo. (it seems the gaming community also finds this, hence PC nog getting any major awards these last years)

And I have my own opinion why PC gaming is not as good as it was. But I'm argueing with so many hermits now. I'll try to find it.