Gamespot : 500$ PC outperforms both PS4 and X1

#501 Posted by clyde46 (45098 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

I think I'm due for a new upgrade. I'm thinking either dual 780Ti's or a TitanZ.

But you have a 780ti. There are people starving. I'm serious.

You expect me to care about people I don't know?

#502 Posted by Roler42 (603 posts) -

Man I wonder how console gamers get through... I mean all they play is GOTY games and all thread long the only GOTY I seen mentioned is the last of us, spending up to 500-600 dollars just to play a single game? I wonder if TLOU is really that good to the point console gamers don't want to play anything else and regard every other game in existence as garbage

#504 Posted by clyde46 (45098 posts) -

@lglz1337 said:

@clyde46: ofcourse you wont selfish piece of F, hope 1 day shit comes your way

I've had my own share of shit to deal with these past few years. Tell me why I should care about people I don't know..

#505 Edited by lglz1337 (3139 posts) -

@clyde46: your shit is nothing compared to people starving without any F chance

#506 Posted by clyde46 (45098 posts) -

@lglz1337 said:

@clyde46: your shit is nothing compared to people starving without any F chance

Maybe not but then why is it my problem? Why is it my issue to sort out?

#507 Edited by 7MDMA (289 posts) -

@lglz1337 said:

@clyde46: your shit is nothing compared to people starving without any F chance

Are you for real?

Bringing those peasant tendencies into plain view for real. Communist or socialist?

#508 Posted by melonfarmerz (1127 posts) -
@melonfarmerz said:

I've read this a few times and so I just want to throw this out there. With the undeniable similarity in archetecture between consoles and PC this gen, there is a VERY VERY good chance we see emulators pop up in 2 or 3 years. When that happens, what are you cows going to say? We have your exclusives, literally your only anti PC argument.

Xbox original is a 733 MHz Pentium III x86 CPU with a Nvidia Geforce 3 GPU. It is currently the worst emulated 6th gen console. GameCube, PS2 and Dreamcast all have far more developed emulators. There is a degree of visualization that would be present in emulating Xbox or PS4, then there is the sheer power of the PS4. It would be nigh impossible to do it for years to come. If Xbox original can't be conquered, then PS4 can't.

"The sheer power of the PS4" You act like the PS4 is so much more powerful than the XBONE is. The difference is so minute, I can clump consoles in the same category. What's the rule of thumb for emulation again? Something like you need double the power of a console to emulate it. That is really not a problem at all. A 1300 dollar rig could pull that off.

Regardless, if you search up progress on the original Xbox emulation, it is literally because no specific group has taken the effort to emulate it. There is simply a lack of interest surrounding it and the massive amount work that it would take to create a solid, efficient emulator is simply not worth it. Look at the Wii. It's slightly more powerful than the Original Xbox but it has one of the most solid emulators available. Fast forward to the PS4, however, there is a lot of interest there. You have some great games coming soon like GranTurismo and Uncharted.

#509 Posted by lostrib (34669 posts) -

@lglz1337 said:

@clyde46: your shit is nothing compared to people starving without any F chance

what's with the "F"?

#510 Posted by GabranthXIII (989 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

@scottpsfan14 said:
@clyde46 said:

I think I'm due for a new upgrade. I'm thinking either dual 780Ti's or a TitanZ.

But you have a 780ti. There are people starving. I'm serious.

You expect me to care about people I don't know?

But...But...you could get 10 peasantstation 4s for that price... and all the exclusives!

#511 Posted by clyde46 (45098 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

@scottpsfan14 said:
@clyde46 said:

I think I'm due for a new upgrade. I'm thinking either dual 780Ti's or a TitanZ.

But you have a 780ti. There are people starving. I'm serious.

You expect me to care about people I don't know?

But...But...you could get 10 peasantstation 4s for that price... and all the exclusives!

I already have a PS4.... I need not for another.

#512 Posted by lglz1337 (3139 posts) -

@clyde46: nobody told you to fix this shit atleast reply in a different way instead of i don't f care. you didn't choose to live in a better world that choice is made for you. there are people that never owned a f gaming console or pc

#513 Posted by 7MDMA (289 posts) -

@lostrib said:

@lglz1337 said:

@clyde46: your shit is nothing compared to people starving without any F chance

what's with the "F"?

First party exclusive?

He may be referring to TLOU.

#514 Edited by lostrib (34669 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

@scottpsfan14 said:
@clyde46 said:

I think I'm due for a new upgrade. I'm thinking either dual 780Ti's or a TitanZ.

But you have a 780ti. There are people starving. I'm serious.

You expect me to care about people I don't know?

But...But...you could get 10 peasantstation 4s for that price... and all the exclusives!

*cue sarah mclachlan*

for just 5 dollars a month you can pay for a peasants online fee

#515 Posted by clyde46 (45098 posts) -

@lglz1337 said:

@clyde46: nobody told you to fix this shit atleast reply in a different way instead of i don't f care. you didn't choose to live in a better world that choice is made for you. there are people that never owned a f gaming console or pc

Again, do you expect me to care? I know full well that life is a bitch and we have to make the most of the hand we are dealt. I did not grow up with money, far from it. When my friends all had the latest clothes, toys etc, I was wearing and playing in hand me downs. I fought and worked my way to where I am now, I didn't get it given to me. All my friends got their cars and shit paid for, I didn't, I had to work for it.

You come to me with this condescending attitude, let me ask you this. If this bothers you so much, why are you on the internet instead of being a part of an aid-convoy to places like Syria, instead of lambasting me for actually working for what I own.

#516 Posted by GabranthXIII (989 posts) -
@lostrib said:

@GabranthXIII said:

@clyde46 said:

@scottpsfan14 said:
@clyde46 said:

I think I'm due for a new upgrade. I'm thinking either dual 780Ti's or a TitanZ.

But you have a 780ti. There are people starving. I'm serious.

You expect me to care about people I don't know?

But...But...you could get 10 peasantstation 4s for that price... and all the exclusives!

*cue sarah mclachlan*

for just 5 dollars a month you can pay for a peasants online fee

Sometimes I do feel bad for them.

#517 Posted by lostrib (34669 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

@lglz1337 said:

@clyde46: nobody told you to fix this shit atleast reply in a different way instead of i don't f care. you didn't choose to live in a better world that choice is made for you. there are people that never owned a f gaming console or pc

Again, do you expect me to care? I know full well that life is a bitch and we have to make the most of the hand we are dealt. I did not grow up with money, far from it. When my friends all had the latest clothes, toys etc, I was wearing and playing in hand me downs. I fought and worked my way to where I am now, I didn't get it given to me. All my friends got their cars and shit paid for, I didn't, I had to work for it.

You come to me with this condescending attitude, let me ask you this. If this bothers you so much, why are you on the internet instead of being a part of an aid-convoy to places like Syria, instead of lambasting me for actually working for what I own.

Because one of those things is a lot easier than the other

#518 Edited by lglz1337 (3139 posts) -

@clyde46: you don't know shit obviously, there are people that have no chance at all

if chances are given to you and you Fuck it up yourself it's your problem.

the world is bigger than murica you know!

and yes i do my share to make this shit world a better place for all so more people can enjoy gaming, my Xbox360 ps1, 2 and 3 are in africa somewhere i f hope

but fuck it! enjoy your life

#519 Posted by lostrib (34669 posts) -

@lglz1337 said:

@clyde46: you don't know shit obviously, there are people that have no chance at all

if chances are given to you and you Fuck it up yourself it's your problem.

the world is bigger than murica you know!

and yes i do my share to make this shit world a better place for all so more people can enjoy gaming, my Xbox360 ps1, 2 and 3 are in africa somewhere i f hope

but fuck it! enjoy your life

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

#520 Edited by 04dcarraher (19270 posts) -

@scottpsfan14 said:

@melonfarmerz said:

@AM-Gamer said:

@gamecubepad: It will run games that look significantly better then BF4. A launch window title has never pushed a console, I don't see why you think somehow this generation is different.

Because optimization was a thing last gen. Console architecture was weird as fuck and efficiency improved later on through the gen as devs figured out how to code in the most efficient manner possible. This gen, the architecture is so similar to PC, devs are most likely already coding close to their max potential. You will get an improvement throughout the years but very minor. This guys explains it very well.

While he makes himself sound very convincing in his explanation, he can't be more wrong. Devs will never be able to max out a PC GPU, but the PS4 GPU will be hit at low level with total control. The architecture being x86 won't change that, in fact, it will make it easier to hit the hardware because they know the architecture inside out. Xbox 360 was Power PC arc, a direct evolution of the PPC Macs and Amiga's in the 90's. The Wii, Dreamcast, and GameCube were also Power PC so there was not much confusion with Xbox 360 hardware with it's standard DDR3 and GPU. But look at Halo 4 compared to Halo 3. Look at what the GameCube did compared to a 500 mhz PC. These all had known architectures. The only 'weird' arc was the PS3's Cell. All through the console generations, optimization counted. 68000 CPU's were standard in late 80's early 90's and look at what the Neo Geo did from Art of Fighting 1 to 3, and Megadrive from Golden Axe to Sonic 3.

Consoles will always allow much more access to the hardware than PC's no matter the arc. x86 only makes it easier to access it.

Your off course here, Devs can max out gpu's on Pc, When a game is at 100% usage its using all its processing power for the tasks at hand. Now granted you may not use every bit of memory. or specifically design a game to fit a certain gpu and use every last once of processing power and designate every little thing. But API's like Mantle is a more direct path in access the hardware bypassing directx libraries so yes devs can in a sense more or less max out gpus. PowerPc is nothing like x86 coding wise. Which is why you will never see PS4 physically running PS3 games or 360 games on the X1, without them going back and recoding the games or just take pc ports that have been already converted and tweak them for use. Emulating a single thread on x86 is one thing but having to emulate multiple threads on a cpu that does not have the brute processing power to do so is another problem.

Comparing Sega's Dreamcast and Nintendo's use of these cpu's is nothing like comparing the 360's cpu. All the others were using one core being single threaded while 360's cpu had three cores during a time frame where nothing was multithreaded. Early games only used one core on the 360 which is why games became more lively able to do more later down the down road. They had to wait and design the software and games to make use of all the cpu cores there. You comparing Halo 3 to 4 is off because Halo 3's engine was based from Halo's 2 engine and they did not make use of all the cores nor did it push and make full use of the 360's gpu when Halo 3 came out. It wasnt until ODST where the engine was updated where the hardware was being used more correctly. But Halo4's was a new engine designed from the ground up for the 360.

Optimization= fitting the software to the hardware's abilities to a set standard. These new consoles are nothing like their previous predecessors, where the software had to be built and learned from the ground up having to figure out the proprietary hardware using these multithreaded coding and then having to learn the new gpu architecture.They this time around know what their doing and know what they have and what to work with. The only aspect developers may have to learn and design around will be the ESRAM on the X1. These new consoles are virtually x86 pc's with minor tweaks using AMD cpu's with AMD GCN based gpu's using API's based from pc's. Fact is we will not see the same evolution in quality or performance as we have seen in the past with these new consoles. They will hit a plateau much quicker and sooner then the 360 or PS3 did.

#521 Edited by clyde46 (45098 posts) -
@lglz1337 said:

@clyde46: you don't know shit obviously, there are people that have no chance at all

if chances are given to you and you Fuck it up yourself it's your problem.

the world is bigger than murica you know!

and yes i do my share to make this shit world a better place for all so more people can enjoy gaming, my Xbox360 ps1, 2 and 3 are in africa somewhere i f hope

but fuck it! enjoy your life

I don't know shit eh? What is your definition of "Shit"? Again, its not my fault. I don't live in America you spanner.... I worked for everything I own and achieved. I'm pretty sure gaming is the last thing on my Africans minds... but know you if you want to believe that you are doing something then I'm not going to burst your bubble. I will enjoy my life, I worked for everything I own and that makes it feel so much better.

#522 Posted by no-scope-AK47 (2738 posts) -

@asylumni said:

@no-scope-AK47 said:

Threads like these just make me think consolites are just dumb. You would think after seeing all the advantages hermits enjoy and at a great price they would say by by ps4 and xflop. Yet they seem to worship Sony and MS and Nintendo consolites invent ways to defend these mega corps.

It seems consolites have Stockholm syndrome they been bent over and abused so long they just think it's normal. In fact they are so conditioned they think consoles are the best. This just confirms it consolites are sheep with no independent thought.

So you you honestly say that you would be happy with either of the GS builds as your primary gaming platform for, let's say, the next 5 years? Because, personally, I've got issues with both builds and wouldn't recommend either.

Either one is better than anything console peasants have ever had. For the Pc Master Race obviously them builds are low end ghetto pc's.

#523 Posted by lglz1337 (3139 posts) -

@clyde46: that's exactly how a selfish respond thank you for the confirmation

#524 Posted by clyde46 (45098 posts) -

@lglz1337 said:

@clyde46: that's exactly how a selfish respond thank you for the confirmation

Still not answering my question.

#525 Posted by 7MDMA (289 posts) -

Sharing is caring!

#526 Edited by MK-Professor (3733 posts) -

ALL these console peasants VS Pc Master Race are very funny we have to agree with that.

@asylumni said:

So you you honestly say that you would be happy with either of the GS builds as your primary gaming platform for, let's say, the next 5 years? Because, personally, I've got issues with both builds and wouldn't recommend either.

Either one is better than anything console peasants have ever had. For the Pc Master Race obviously them builds are low end ghetto pc's.

Glory to the PC Master Race.

#527 Posted by princeofshapeir (13783 posts) -

TLOU was the best game last year.

By what standard? It got an 8 on GameSpot; GameSpot's GOTY last year was A Link Between Worlds; GTA V had the highest Metacritic score of any title last year (only bringing that up since Cows have officially switched to MC since TLOU flopped).

#528 Edited by AM-Gamer (3583 posts) -

@7mdma: You could not enhance GTA 5 above anything on the PS4. The geometry is way to simple and a mod is not going to fix that.

#529 Edited by gamecubepad (6098 posts) -

Holy shit no-scope has been on a roll lately.

@scottpsfan14 said:

While he makes himself sound very convincing in his explanation, he can't be more wrong. Devs will never be able to max out a PC GPU, but the PS4 GPU will be hit at low level with total control. The architecture being x86 won't change that, in fact, it will make it easier to hit the hardware because they know the architecture inside out.

Consoles will always allow much more access to the hardware than PC's no matter the arc. x86 only makes it easier to access it.

This gen is much different, open your eyes...


"Console-like performance on Win7&8"

"Mantle and PS4 drive our designs."

"Share concepts, methods & optimization strategies."

---

PC is experiencing API war. AMD has included consoles into their fold and are attempting API coup.

The consoles are PCs this time around. MS started this with Xbox. Cell+RSX difficulties opened the door for MS to walk through. Sony went pure PC and ease of development this gen. AMD 8-core Kabini 1.6GHz and 7850/R7 265.

No multi-core/multi-thread learning curve this gen, which Tim Sweeney stated in 2005 would require 2-3 times the manpower to implement. No unified shader transition. No abstract CPU design. Just more PC. About $550 of PC to be exact.

#530 Edited by 7MDMA (289 posts) -

@AM-Gamer said:

@7mdma: You could not enhance GTA 5 above anything on the PS4. The geometry is way to simple and a mod is not going to fix that.

Geometry sheometry- sure they will. Those modders are talented SOB's. They turned the ultimate sow's ear (GTA 4) into a photo realistic silk purse.

#531 Posted by scottpsfan14 (3850 posts) -

@scottpsfan14 said:
@melonfarmerz said:

I've read this a few times and so I just want to throw this out there. With the undeniable similarity in archetecture between consoles and PC this gen, there is a VERY VERY good chance we see emulators pop up in 2 or 3 years. When that happens, what are you cows going to say? We have your exclusives, literally your only anti PC argument.

Xbox original is a 733 MHz Pentium III x86 CPU with a Nvidia Geforce 3 GPU. It is currently the worst emulated 6th gen console. GameCube, PS2 and Dreamcast all have far more developed emulators. There is a degree of visualization that would be present in emulating Xbox or PS4, then there is the sheer power of the PS4. It would be nigh impossible to do it for years to come. If Xbox original can't be conquered, then PS4 can't.

"The sheer power of the PS4" You act like the PS4 is so much more powerful than the XBONE is. The difference is so minute, I can clump consoles in the same category. What's the rule of thumb for emulation again? Something like you need double the power of a console to emulate it. That is really not a problem at all. A 1300 dollar rig could pull that off.

Regardless, if you search up progress on the original Xbox emulation, it is literally because no specific group has taken the effort to emulate it. There is simply a lack of interest surrounding it and the massive amount work that it would take to create a solid, efficient emulator is simply not worth it. Look at the Wii. It's slightly more powerful than the Original Xbox but it has one of the most solid emulators available. Fast forward to the PS4, however, there is a lot of interest there. You have some great games coming soon like GranTurismo and Uncharted.

The 'sheer power' of the PS4 is still a lot to emulate. They had some difficulties in emulating the first Xbox because it was not just a case of 'same arc, easy emulation'. You also need about 10 times the power to emulate a console and that's if it's compiled at it's most efficient form. Dolphin could not run on a PC 10 times the power of the GameCube very well. Double the power? Lol, lets see a 600mhz PC with say a Geforce 4 run a PS2 emulator, or better yet, an Xbox original run a PS2 emulator seen as that's just about double the power.

#532 Edited by MK-Professor (3733 posts) -
@scottpsfan14 said:

@melonfarmerz said:

"The sheer power of the PS4" You act like the PS4 is so much more powerful than the XBONE is. The difference is so minute, I can clump consoles in the same category. What's the rule of thumb for emulation again? Something like you need double the power of a console to emulate it. That is really not a problem at all. A 1300 dollar rig could pull that off.

Regardless, if you search up progress on the original Xbox emulation, it is literally because no specific group has taken the effort to emulate it. There is simply a lack of interest surrounding it and the massive amount work that it would take to create a solid, efficient emulator is simply not worth it. Look at the Wii. It's slightly more powerful than the Original Xbox but it has one of the most solid emulators available. Fast forward to the PS4, however, there is a lot of interest there. You have some great games coming soon like GranTurismo and Uncharted.

The 'sheer power' of the PS4 is still a lot to emulate. They had some difficulties in emulating the first Xbox because it was not just a case of 'same arc, easy emulation'. You also need about 10 times the power to emulate a console and that's if it's compiled at it's most efficient form. Dolphin could not run on a PC 10 times the power of the GameCube very well. Double the power? Lol, lets see a 600mhz PC with say a Geforce 4 run a PS2 emulator, or better yet, an Xbox original run a PS2 emulator seen as that's just about double the power.

Two 290xOC give around 13 Tflops meaning that they have 10 times the power compared to the poor Xbox One.

#533 Posted by princeofshapeir (13783 posts) -

@7mdma said:

@AM-Gamer said:

@7mdma: You could not enhance GTA 5 above anything on the PS4. The geometry is way to simple and a mod is not going to fix that.

Geometry sheometry- sure they will. Those modders are talented SOB's. They turned the ultimate sow's ear (GTA 4) into a photo realistic silk purse.

That was just a bunch of post-processing effects and custom textures.

#534 Edited by 7MDMA (289 posts) -

@7mdma said:

@AM-Gamer said:

@7mdma: You could not enhance GTA 5 above anything on the PS4. The geometry is way to simple and a mod is not going to fix that.

Geometry sheometry- sure they will. Those modders are talented SOB's. They turned the ultimate sow's ear (GTA 4) into a photo realistic silk purse.

That was just a bunch of post-processing effects and custom textures.

@7mdma said:

@AM-Gamer said:

@7mdma: You could not enhance GTA 5 above anything on the PS4. The geometry is way to simple and a mod is not going to fix that.

Geometry sheometry- sure they will. Those modders are talented SOB's. They turned the ultimate sow's ear (GTA 4) into a photo realistic silk purse.

That was just a bunch of post-processing effects and custom textures.

Maybe, but the end user doesn't care when he's playing a completely different game to the ghastly looking vanilla version.

#535 Edited by no-scope-AK47 (2738 posts) -

@gamecubepad said:

Holy shit no-scope has been on a roll lately.

@scottpsfan14 said:

While he makes himself sound very convincing in his explanation, he can't be more wrong. Devs will never be able to max out a PC GPU, but the PS4 GPU will be hit at low level with total control. The architecture being x86 won't change that, in fact, it will make it easier to hit the hardware because they know the architecture inside out.

Consoles will always allow much more access to the hardware than PC's no matter the arc. x86 only makes it easier to access it.

This gen is much different, open your eyes...

"Console-like performance on Win7&8"

"Mantle and PS4 drive our designs."

"Share concepts, methods & optimization strategies."

---

PC is experiencing API war. AMD has included consoles into their fold and are attempting API coup.

The consoles are PCs this time around. MS started this with Xbox. Cell+RSX difficulties opened the door for MS to walk through. Sony went pure PC and ease of development this gen. AMD 8-core Kabini 1.6GHz and 7850/R7 265.

No multi-core/multi-thread learning curve this gen, which Tim Sweeney stated in 2005 would require 2-3 times the manpower to implement. No unified shader transition. No abstract CPU design. Just more PC. About $550 of PC to be exact.

Don't type bullshit and put my name on it TY

#536 Posted by DaBrainz (7628 posts) -

The PC build argument is valid and has been for at least the last 2 gens. We should admit as early adopters of consoles that we don't do it because its financially intelligent, we do it because we are addicted to video games.

#537 Posted by gamecubepad (6098 posts) -

@no-scope-AK47:

Whoa slow down, big guy. GS quote system is fucked. I was just saying you've been pretty hilarious lately owning consolites. It was props. lol.

The rest is directed at scottfps.

This is the part where we laugh at the misunderstanding...

P.S.- Fucking love that movie. Donnie Yen, one the very best.

#538 Edited by scottpsfan14 (3850 posts) -

@04dcarraher said:

@scottpsfan14 said:

@melonfarmerz said:

@AM-Gamer said:

@gamecubepad: It will run games that look significantly better then BF4. A launch window title has never pushed a console, I don't see why you think somehow this generation is different.

Because optimization was a thing last gen. Console architecture was weird as fuck and efficiency improved later on through the gen as devs figured out how to code in the most efficient manner possible. This gen, the architecture is so similar to PC, devs are most likely already coding close to their max potential. You will get an improvement throughout the years but very minor. This guys explains it very well.

While he makes himself sound very convincing in his explanation, he can't be more wrong. Devs will never be able to max out a PC GPU, but the PS4 GPU will be hit at low level with total control. The architecture being x86 won't change that, in fact, it will make it easier to hit the hardware because they know the architecture inside out. Xbox 360 was Power PC arc, a direct evolution of the PPC Macs and Amiga's in the 90's. The Wii, Dreamcast, and GameCube were also Power PC so there was not much confusion with Xbox 360 hardware with it's standard DDR3 and GPU. But look at Halo 4 compared to Halo 3. Look at what the GameCube did compared to a 500 mhz PC. These all had known architectures. The only 'weird' arc was the PS3's Cell. All through the console generations, optimization counted. 68000 CPU's were standard in late 80's early 90's and look at what the Neo Geo did from Art of Fighting 1 to 3, and Megadrive from Golden Axe to Sonic 3.

Consoles will always allow much more access to the hardware than PC's no matter the arc. x86 only makes it easier to access it.

Your off course here, Devs can max out gpu's on Pc, When a game is at 100% usage its using all its processing power for the tasks at hand. Now granted you may not use every bit of memory. or specifically design a game to fit a certain gpu and use every last once of processing power and designate every little thing. But API's like Mantle is a more direct path in access the hardware bypassing directx libraries so yes devs can in a sense more or less max out gpus. PowerPc is nothing like x86 coding wise. Which is why you will never see PS4 physically running PS3 games or 360 games on the X1, without them going back and recoding the games or just take pc ports that have been already converted and tweak them for use. Emulating a single thread on x86 is one thing but having to emulate multiple threads on a cpu that does not have the brute processing power to do so is another problem.

Comparing Sega's Dreamcast and Nintendo's use of these cpu's is nothing like comparing the 360's cpu. All the others were using one core being single threaded while 360's cpu had three cores during a time frame where nothing was multithreaded. Early games only used one core on the 360 which is why games became more lively able to do more later down the down road. They had to wait and design the software and games to make use of all the cpu cores there. You comparing Halo 3 to 4 is off because Halo 3's engine was based from Halo's 2 engine and they did not make use of all the cores nor did it push and make full use of the 360's gpu when Halo 3 came out. It wasnt until ODST where the engine was updated where the hardware was being used more correctly. But Halo4's was a new engine designed from the ground up for the 360.

Optimization= fitting the software to the hardware's abilities to a set standard. These new consoles are nothing like their previous predecessors, where the software had to be built and learned from the ground up having to figure out the proprietary hardware using these multithreaded coding and then having to learn the new gpu architecture.They this time around know what their doing and know what they have and what to work with. The only aspect developers may have to learn and design around will be the ESRAM on the X1. These new consoles are virtually x86 pc's with minor tweaks using AMD cpu's with AMD GCN based gpu's using API's based from pc's. Fact is we will not see the same evolution in quality or performance as we have seen in the past with these new consoles. They will hit a plateau much quicker and sooner then the 360 or PS3 did.

Just because task manager says 'GPU usage' is 100%, doesn't mean it's being utilized as efficiently as a console GPU would. Remember this, PC games run on top of Windows, a high level OS. Mantle will offer as low level access as possible on windows, with improvements mostly on the CPU part. PS4 games run at bios level and the OS that is booted up is on top of the bios and purely acts as a front-end. That's why you can't run 2 games at once on PS4 because all of the systems low level resources are used for the game. 3GB of ram is reserved for the OS on top so that there is minimum hiccups while you are checking the OS for messages or whatever. Sure you can multitask some apps like the Web Browser, or Netflix while playing games, but they are the OS apps that are not low level. A PS4 game is strategically coded for it's one set of hardware and devs can utilize what ever chip on the GPU with specific low level instructions and with far more efficiency than a PC can with windows being a overhead. It's not the background processes that's the overhead so much, it's the fact that PC games run on top of windows and not under it and makes code translations more cumbersome.

Will we see as big of an increase as PS3 launch titles to last leg titles? No. But the person on that video said the only optimization that will be used on PS4 will be the same as on PC, (down scaling graphics to suit hardware), where in actual fact, the same optimization processes will apply as any other console but with a different, more well known coding language. Do you really think a PC with the equivalent specs to PS4 would perform the same on a game that was optimized in low level on PS4? No way, because of the reasons I mentioned above. X86 will only make it easier to optimize, but there is still lots of different chips on the PS4 GPU that will all have to be learned to a much more detailed degree than when devs just plopped the effects on to last gen ports on PC with minimum effort. Do you really think tessellation on Crysis 2 for instance is in any way optimized? Nope, it's just a little addon that only touches on the hardware tessellation in DX11 GPU's with out any change to the game code that sends the instructions to the hardware. All of the effects you seen on PC games over the last few years will be used more fundamentally in next gen titles because the code will be written around them.

Optimization makes a massive difference. Look at the PSP emulator, PPSSPP written in C++ which runs games in the 100+ fps compared to JPCSP written in java that runs games in 15-20fps. C++ is low level and java is high level, and this is on top of windows through DirectX. That's the difference hardware utilization can make, and that's not even through LLE.

Bottom line is, PS4 and all consoles before it will utilize it's hardware better than PC's ever will. I'm not saying it's more powerful than PC though. And yes a high end PC will out perform a PS4 even without all the optimizations using only the brute force of the hardware.

#540 Edited by no-scope-AK47 (2738 posts) -

@gamecubepad said:

@no-scope-AK47:

Whoa slow down, big guy. GS quote system is fucked. I was just saying you've been pretty hilarious lately owning consolites. It was props. lol.

The rest is directed at scottfps.

This is the part where we laugh at the misunderstanding...

P.S.- Fucking love that movie. Donnie Yen, one the very best.

Not hard to own console peasants. They make me lol they always talking about rez and fps but as soon as the pc enters they say all you care about is graphics. They say console x is better than console y for online gaming but get mad when you talk about steam. They talk about my console gamepads da best but get mad when you say kbam is faster and more flexable and more accurate. Console peasant brag about exclusives but get butthurt when you bring out the graph showing pc has the most exclusives and AAA/AA games by far.

They say hermits spend way too much (basically saying we have more money) on pc's so we build a ghetto pc and it still owns the peasantstation 4 and xflop they say Bbbuuut (insert lame excuse) lmfao.

#541 Posted by 04dcarraher (19270 posts) -

@scottpsfan14:

Do you realize that windows uses less resources then what these new console OS's use? Both consoles have to allocate two cores and 3gb+ for the OS and features so yeah windows is the not the issue...

Fact is that a system with a intel i5 quad core or AMD 6 core will outclass the PS4 and if these pc's have GPU's equal to 7870 or GTX 660+ will be able to match and outperform the PS4 through out its life. You think the PS4 gpu is that more different from AMD's R7 series or 7800 series? their all GCN based the only thing that the PS4 gpu has over 7000 series is more ACE's which makes parallel workloads more efficient aka takes less of a hit in performance. But the PS4 gpu only has 1.8 TFLOP vs 7870's 2.5 TFLOP. Also Even with the PS4 gpu developers could not get tomb raider to run equal to PC and had to lower texture quality take out tessellation and had to use a updated TressFX that also had tone down aspects of that as well.

No matter what they do they cant bypass the physical processing limitation of the hardware. Its funny you think that they will just because their consoles....

You using Crysis 2 as an example is a joke since Crytek did a sloppy job on the tessellation work that was fixed by a modder and eventually Crytek patched what he fixed. Underneath the levels water was being rendered and when tessellation was on it created a unplayable experience.

#542 Edited by Jankarcop (8998 posts) -

@Suppaman100 said:

@Jankarcop said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@melonfarmerz said:

@Suppaman100 said:
@Jankarcop said:

@xboxdone74 said:

Unfortunately doesn't outperform in goty exclusives.

But it does outperform in AAA, AA, online, and multiplats.

Which would people rather have? (The answer is PC, as it has more players)

Answer this question;

If PC has so many AAA exclusives, how come that it never seems to win a GOTY?

You've been avoiding my question so many times. How about you answer mine. Do you even have a gaming PC?

And also, are you 14. Judging by your post history, I wouldn't be surprised.

And to answer your question with my opinion, because PC gaming entitles a different type of gaming.

LoL came out in 2009

SC2 came out in 2010

GW2 came out in 2011

CS:GO came out in 2012

Dota 2 came out in 2013

So you see, for the past 5 years, we have 5 games that are the height of eSports. Each of these draw in crowds of hundreds of thousands and the players get paid millions. LoL filled up the entire fucking Staples center last year and each of these have a larger following than most actual sports. I highly doubt you have touched any of these games.

Most PC gamers have thousands of hours invested into each of these games and 5 years down the road, they will still be played competitively. Just like SC:BW and WC3 from years before.

Now we look at the console side. We have games like UC and TLoU. Great games, but games you play in one 20 hour play through and never play again. However, you still go on internet forums telling everyone how great these games are. You know why you never hear about the games I just mentioned on this forum? Because they each have their own forum with MILLIONS of users.

TLoU wins GOTY awards from generic sites like Gamespot and IGN, as expected, but in 5 years, what will happen? Literally nobody will ever talk about TLoU. Counter Strike GO and Starcraft will still be hosting million dollar tournaments and hundreds of thousands of players will still be putting in hours and hours into the games. Console gaming is casual. You have games that feel like movies. On this forum, where the vast majority of you are console gamers, you don't understand how PC gaming works. You think that we play games like that too and assume PC gaming is dying because we have a lack of "movie games", or as you would call them, AAA. Sure, when I'm bored, I might play some BF or AC but for the most part, PC gaming is much more competitive and complicated. To say its dead is just retarded. Esports is responsible for the recent boom in gaming. And which platform is responsible for esports?

Now you know why AAA titles on consoles win more GOTY's. They are casual mediums that go through casual sites to appeal to the casual gamer. If you want to play things with skill and depth, that turn off a lot of casual people on the console, hence skimming by sites like Gamespot, then you go PC.

But that's still no excuse for PC not winning any significant awards or the extremely low release count of good non indie exclusive .

And lol at the esports argument, so because a game is played competitively it's good? No that means it's popular, that's all.

PC gaming has become worse, in quality and quantity.

Sit the FUCK down liar:

http://systemwarsmagazine.com/gamespot-reviews-spreadsheet/

And yet with all of those "quality" PC exclusives, PC can't seem to win a GOTY? Why? Because most of the PC exclusives are indies and most of them are of lower quality than non indie games. (that's normal, you can't expect the same quality for a game that's developed by 10 devs in comparison to a team of 100+ devs.) And indie games are giving scores based on different standards than games made by the big developers, that's why PC has so many "good" exclusives.

1. I didn't ask for your shitty opinion. Put up data links or gtfo.

2. Most of those AA+ PC titles are not INDY games. Lie more?

3. INDY have won countless GOTY awards and make up PS4's very few high scoring exclusives...

Did you hear that, a majority of PS4's high scoring titles are indy , more than PC.

Proof of this fact : http://systemwarsmagazine.com/gamespot-reviews-spreadsheet/

#543 Posted by scottpsfan14 (3850 posts) -

@scottpsfan14:

Do you realize that windows uses less resources then what these new console OS's use? Both consoles have to allocate two cores and 3gb+ for the OS and features so yeah windows is the not the issue...

Fact is that a system with a intel i5 quad core or AMD 6 core will outclass the PS4 and if these pc's have GPU's equal to 7870 or GTX 660+ will be able to match and outperform the PS4 through out its life. You think the PS4 gpu is that more different from AMD's R7 series or 7800 series? their all GCN based the only thing that the PS4 gpu has over 7000 series is more ACE's which makes parallel workloads more efficient aka takes less of a hit in performance. But the PS4 gpu only has 1.8 TFLOP vs 7870's 2.5 TFLOP. Also Even with the PS4 gpu developers could not get tomb raider to run equal to PC and had to lower texture quality take out tessellation and had to use a updated TressFX that also had tone down aspects of that as well.

No matter what they do they cant bypass the physical processing limitation of the hardware. Its funny you think that they will just because their consoles....

You using Crysis 2 as an example is a joke since Crytek did a sloppy job on the tessellation work that was fixed by a modder and eventually Crytek patched what he fixed. Underneath the levels water was being rendered and when tessellation was on it created a unplayable experience.

What I'm saying is PS4 games do not run on top of the OS, so it is running on the hardware, not a piece of software that translates to hardware. I'm not saying that the PS4 is magically the best performing machine in the world because of optimization, but PC gamers (I'm also a PC gamer) always think it's a minute thing and doesn't matter. Fact is once the PS4 is optimized to the maximum, which will happen faster than PS3 did of course, It will far out perform a PC of the same spec. PS4 games (exclusives especially) will be strategically coded for the hardware. It's just fact. That's the point I'm making. I'm a person who owns a PC, an Xbox 360, and a PS4 and am speaking a fact and in no way am I down playing the PC.

What you are saying is that optimization is not possible any more because of it being x86. Bullshit. It will still have the same amount of access to the hardware as any other console.

#544 Edited by Suppaman100 (3778 posts) -

@Suppaman100 said:

@Jankarcop said:

@Suppaman100 said:

@melonfarmerz said:

@Suppaman100 said:
@Jankarcop said:

@xboxdone74 said:

Unfortunately doesn't outperform in goty exclusives.

But it does outperform in AAA, AA, online, and multiplats.

Which would people rather have? (The answer is PC, as it has more players)

Answer this question;

If PC has so many AAA exclusives, how come that it never seems to win a GOTY?

You've been avoiding my question so many times. How about you answer mine. Do you even have a gaming PC?

And also, are you 14. Judging by your post history, I wouldn't be surprised.

And to answer your question with my opinion, because PC gaming entitles a different type of gaming.

LoL came out in 2009

SC2 came out in 2010

GW2 came out in 2011

CS:GO came out in 2012

Dota 2 came out in 2013

So you see, for the past 5 years, we have 5 games that are the height of eSports. Each of these draw in crowds of hundreds of thousands and the players get paid millions. LoL filled up the entire fucking Staples center last year and each of these have a larger following than most actual sports. I highly doubt you have touched any of these games.

Most PC gamers have thousands of hours invested into each of these games and 5 years down the road, they will still be played competitively. Just like SC:BW and WC3 from years before.

Now we look at the console side. We have games like UC and TLoU. Great games, but games you play in one 20 hour play through and never play again. However, you still go on internet forums telling everyone how great these games are. You know why you never hear about the games I just mentioned on this forum? Because they each have their own forum with MILLIONS of users.

TLoU wins GOTY awards from generic sites like Gamespot and IGN, as expected, but in 5 years, what will happen? Literally nobody will ever talk about TLoU. Counter Strike GO and Starcraft will still be hosting million dollar tournaments and hundreds of thousands of players will still be putting in hours and hours into the games. Console gaming is casual. You have games that feel like movies. On this forum, where the vast majority of you are console gamers, you don't understand how PC gaming works. You think that we play games like that too and assume PC gaming is dying because we have a lack of "movie games", or as you would call them, AAA. Sure, when I'm bored, I might play some BF or AC but for the most part, PC gaming is much more competitive and complicated. To say its dead is just retarded. Esports is responsible for the recent boom in gaming. And which platform is responsible for esports?

Now you know why AAA titles on consoles win more GOTY's. They are casual mediums that go through casual sites to appeal to the casual gamer. If you want to play things with skill and depth, that turn off a lot of casual people on the console, hence skimming by sites like Gamespot, then you go PC.

But that's still no excuse for PC not winning any significant awards or the extremely low release count of good non indie exclusive .

And lol at the esports argument, so because a game is played competitively it's good? No that means it's popular, that's all.

PC gaming has become worse, in quality and quantity.

Sit the FUCK down liar:

http://systemwarsmagazine.com/gamespot-reviews-spreadsheet/

And yet with all of those "quality" PC exclusives, PC can't seem to win a GOTY? Why? Because most of the PC exclusives are indies and most of them are of lower quality than non indie games. (that's normal, you can't expect the same quality for a game that's developed by 10 devs in comparison to a team of 100+ devs.) And indie games are giving scores based on different standards than games made by the big developers, that's why PC has so many "good" exclusives.

1. I didn't ask for your shitty opinion. Put up data links or gtfo.

2. Most of those AA+ PC titles are not INDY games. Lie more?

3. INDY have won countless GOTY awards and make up PS4's very few high scoring exclusives...

Did you hear that, a majority of PS4's high scoring titles are indy , more than PC.

Proof of this fact : http://systemwarsmagazine.com/gamespot-reviews-spreadsheet/

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA! Truth hurts doesn't it hermit?

"Most of those AA+ PC titles are not INDY games." Yes they are you fool.

And did I say all indies were bad? No, but most of them are of low quality.

Also LOL, striking through my post won't change the truth.

Think about it, I know hard for you, but try. I asked this question a thousand times and you never answer it.

With all of those "quality" PC exclusives, PC can't seem to win a GOTY? Why? And you know the answer, the answer is what I wrote. Keep living in denial though, it's highly amusing!

#545 Edited by Jankarcop (8998 posts) -

@Suppaman100 : I'm not living in denial. I accept these facts

PC

  • More AAA/AA total. More AAA/AA exclusive (by far)
  • Best gfx and performance
  • Best online and features
  • Best multiplats

PS3/4

  • 2 GOTY titles
  • PS4 library currently is comprised mostly of INDY Titles. A great pro for indy lovers.
#546 Posted by lostrib (34669 posts) -

I'm not living in denial. I accept these facts

PC

  • More AAA/AA total. More AAA/AA exclusive (by far)
  • Best gfx and performance
  • Best online and features
  • Best multiplats

PS3/4

  • 2 GOTY titles
  • current ps4 library is mostly INDYs

Jankar, what's your specs?

#547 Posted by scottpsfan14 (3850 posts) -

@scottpsfan14 said:

@melonfarmerz said:

"The sheer power of the PS4" You act like the PS4 is so much more powerful than the XBONE is. The difference is so minute, I can clump consoles in the same category. What's the rule of thumb for emulation again? Something like you need double the power of a console to emulate it. That is really not a problem at all. A 1300 dollar rig could pull that off.

Regardless, if you search up progress on the original Xbox emulation, it is literally because no specific group has taken the effort to emulate it. There is simply a lack of interest surrounding it and the massive amount work that it would take to create a solid, efficient emulator is simply not worth it. Look at the Wii. It's slightly more powerful than the Original Xbox but it has one of the most solid emulators available. Fast forward to the PS4, however, there is a lot of interest there. You have some great games coming soon like GranTurismo and Uncharted.

The 'sheer power' of the PS4 is still a lot to emulate. They had some difficulties in emulating the first Xbox because it was not just a case of 'same arc, easy emulation'. You also need about 10 times the power to emulate a console and that's if it's compiled at it's most efficient form. Dolphin could not run on a PC 10 times the power of the GameCube very well. Double the power? Lol, lets see a 600mhz PC with say a Geforce 4 run a PS2 emulator, or better yet, an Xbox original run a PS2 emulator seen as that's just about double the power.

Two 290xOC give around 13 Tflops meaning that they have 10 times the power compared to the poor Xbox One.

It has to be 10 times the raw power all round, not just GPU grunt. No PC is powerful enough to emulate PS3 or 360 never mind PS4. Even PS2 is faulty.

#548 Posted by MonsieurX (29569 posts) -

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA! Truth hurts doesn't it hermit?

"Most of those AA+ PC titles are not INDY games." Yes they are you fool.

And did I say all indies were bad? No, but most of them are of low quality.

Also LOL, striking through my post won't change the truth.

Think about it, I know hard for you, but try. I asked this question a thousand times and you never answer it.

With all of those "quality" PC exclusives, PC can't seem to win a GOTY? Why? And you know the answer, the answer is what I wrote. Keep living in denial though, it's highly amusing!

Considering PS3 won only 1(Demon Souls) and since Journey is an indy game...LOL

TLOU lost GOTY over Zelda,extra lolz

#549 Edited by 04dcarraher (19270 posts) -

@scottpsfan14 said:
@04dcarraher said:

@scottpsfan14:

Do you realize that windows uses less resources then what these new console OS's use? Both consoles have to allocate two cores and 3gb+ for the OS and features so yeah windows is the not the issue...

Fact is that a system with a intel i5 quad core or AMD 6 core will outclass the PS4 and if these pc's have GPU's equal to 7870 or GTX 660+ will be able to match and outperform the PS4 through out its life. You think the PS4 gpu is that more different from AMD's R7 series or 7800 series? their all GCN based the only thing that the PS4 gpu has over 7000 series is more ACE's which makes parallel workloads more efficient aka takes less of a hit in performance. But the PS4 gpu only has 1.8 TFLOP vs 7870's 2.5 TFLOP. Also Even with the PS4 gpu developers could not get tomb raider to run equal to PC and had to lower texture quality take out tessellation and had to use a updated TressFX that also had tone down aspects of that as well.

No matter what they do they cant bypass the physical processing limitation of the hardware. Its funny you think that they will just because their consoles....

You using Crysis 2 as an example is a joke since Crytek did a sloppy job on the tessellation work that was fixed by a modder and eventually Crytek patched what he fixed. Underneath the levels water was being rendered and when tessellation was on it created a unplayable experience.

What I'm saying is PS4 games do not run on top of the OS, so it is running on the hardware, not a piece of software that translates to hardware. I'm not saying that the PS4 is magically the best performing machine in the world because of optimization, but PC gamers (I'm also a PC gamer) always think it's a minute thing and doesn't matter. Fact is once the PS4 is optimized to the maximum, which will happen faster than PS3 did of course, It will far out perform a PC of the same spec. PS4 games (exclusives especially) will be strategically coded for the hardware. It's just fact. That's the point I'm making. I'm a person who owns a PC, an Xbox 360, and a PS4 and am speaking a fact and in no way am I down playing the PC.

What you are saying is that optimization is not possible any more because of it being x86. Bullshit. It will still have the same amount of access to the hardware as any other console.

Your wrong the OS controls all the functions incorporated from the software and drivers that control the hardware as well. so yes the games run on top of the OS like any other computer because of all the features and multitasking these consoles can do while gaming

Again i dd not say optimization is not possible because its x86 im saying the coding gains will only be slight not massive nor will it allow the PS4 to outperform a similar based pc...( ie fx 6300 8gb 2gb 7870 etc) using the same assets and settings. Optimization includes downgrading aspects fit the hardware's abilities too. Which we have seen with multiple games and multiple aspects showing that PS4 or X1 are not that much different, and the hardware lacks in certain areas.

You have no idea how slow the cpu's are in the PS4 or X1, the fact that two cores are reserved and allocated before the developers can use the cpu cuts the console's abilities quite a bit. AMD's Jaguar architecture is around 15% faster clock per clock then AMD's bobcat series which those are around 20% slower then the old Athlon X2's and 50% slower clock per clock with AMD's Athlon 2's. Which means on the software side of any overhead from windows and API's any modern cpu will surpass what these console can do. A prime example of this is with Crysis 2 seeing an Intel C2D with a x1950pro performing similar to the 360 with nearly equal gpu's.

Which is why in BF4 MP the framerates average in the 40's and can go all over the place when alot of action and events are happening. The 6 cores clocked around 1.7ghz are not enough to handle these workloads. Which is why PS4 has a stronger gpu then X1 because with more ACE's its able to handle more compute workloads better allowing some cpu jobs take place on the gpu.

But putting more cpu based jobs onto the gpu also limits the maximum processing output the gpu can do for rendering. And when they include something like real time physics or gpu based physics it takes away from what the gpu could do if it did not have to do it.

#550 Posted by scottpsfan14 (3850 posts) -

@scottpsfan14 said:
@04dcarraher said:

@scottpsfan14:

Do you realize that windows uses less resources then what these new console OS's use? Both consoles have to allocate two cores and 3gb+ for the OS and features so yeah windows is the not the issue...

Fact is that a system with a intel i5 quad core or AMD 6 core will outclass the PS4 and if these pc's have GPU's equal to 7870 or GTX 660+ will be able to match and outperform the PS4 through out its life. You think the PS4 gpu is that more different from AMD's R7 series or 7800 series? their all GCN based the only thing that the PS4 gpu has over 7000 series is more ACE's which makes parallel workloads more efficient aka takes less of a hit in performance. But the PS4 gpu only has 1.8 TFLOP vs 7870's 2.5 TFLOP. Also Even with the PS4 gpu developers could not get tomb raider to run equal to PC and had to lower texture quality take out tessellation and had to use a updated TressFX that also had tone down aspects of that as well.

No matter what they do they cant bypass the physical processing limitation of the hardware. Its funny you think that they will just because their consoles....

You using Crysis 2 as an example is a joke since Crytek did a sloppy job on the tessellation work that was fixed by a modder and eventually Crytek patched what he fixed. Underneath the levels water was being rendered and when tessellation was on it created a unplayable experience.

What I'm saying is PS4 games do not run on top of the OS, so it is running on the hardware, not a piece of software that translates to hardware. I'm not saying that the PS4 is magically the best performing machine in the world because of optimization, but PC gamers (I'm also a PC gamer) always think it's a minute thing and doesn't matter. Fact is once the PS4 is optimized to the maximum, which will happen faster than PS3 did of course, It will far out perform a PC of the same spec. PS4 games (exclusives especially) will be strategically coded for the hardware. It's just fact. That's the point I'm making. I'm a person who owns a PC, an Xbox 360, and a PS4 and am speaking a fact and in no way am I down playing the PC.

What you are saying is that optimization is not possible any more because of it being x86. Bullshit. It will still have the same amount of access to the hardware as any other console.

Your wrong the OS controls all the functions incorporated from the software and drivers that control the hardware as well. so yes the games run on top of the OS like any other computer because of all the features and multitasking these consoles can do while gaming

Again i dd not say optimization is not possible because its x86 im saying the coding gains will only be slight not massive nor will it allow the PS4 to outperform a similar based pc...( ie fx 6300 8gb 2gb 7870 etc) using the same assets and settings. Optimization includes downgrading aspects fit the hardware's abilities too. Which we have seen with multiple games and multiple aspects showing that PS4 or X1 are not that much different, and the hardware lacks in certain areas.

You have no idea how slow the cpu's are in the PS4 or X1, the fact that two cores are reserved and allocated before the developers can use the cpu cuts the console's abilities quite a bit. AMD's Jaguar architecture is around 15% faster clock per clock then AMD's bobcat series which those are around 20% slower then the old Athlon X2's and 50% slower clock per clock with AMD's Athlon 2's. Which means on the software side of any overhead from windows and API's any modern cpu will surpass what these console can do. A prime example of this is with Crysis 2 seeing an Intel C2D with a x1950pro performing similar to the 360 with nearly equal gpu's.

Which is why in BF4 MP the framerates average in the 40's and can go all over the place when alot of action and events are happening. The 6 cores clocked around 1.7ghz are not enough to handle these workloads. Which is why PS4 has a stronger gpu then X1 because with more ACE's its able to handle more compute workloads better allowing some cpu jobs take place on the gpu.

But putting more cpu based jobs onto the gpu also limits the maximum processing output the gpu can do for rendering. And when they include something like real time physics or gpu based physics it takes away from what the gpu could do if it did not have to do it.

PS4 OS is running on top of it's bios, where as games are running under the OS. The software drivers are all in low level among the bios in consoles like it has always been. The OS is a front end to use the functions of the PS4. Commodore 64 had 64kb of ram with only 35kb available to the developer. What did the developer do? Code low level and ran the game underneath the C64 OS (C64 Basic) and gained access to the full 64kb of ram the machine had. The fact is, consoles can be fully accessed. PC games are coded to a common API, PS4 games are coded to the metal. Xbox Original was x86 and it certainly performed better than a 700MHz PC with a Geforce 3. The CPU is weak for sure, but then so was the SNES CPU, it was the graphics components it had that made it look good, and regardless of them being less powerful graphics chips than the VGA cards in PC's at the time, and having a much slower CPU than a 386, it's games looked much better because devs utilized the hardware. So what your saying is that optimization will be about the same as PC optimization now? Even though PC's are ever changing hardware and are impossible to fully utilize because of this? PS4 will see great speed increase over similar powered PC's, same with XB1.

http://gamingbolt.com/ps4s-high-gpu-performance-allows-optimization-experimentation-api-allows-strict-process-control

PC devs can not strictly utilize sections of the hardware because the hardware is never the same twice. PS4, and all consoles have always had this advantage.