FEAR x Wolfenstein: The New Order

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padaporra

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Edited By padaporra

Poll FEAR x Wolfenstein: The New Order (30 votes)

FEAR 60%
Wolfenstein: The New Order 40%

I got The New Order in this Steam Summer Sale and I have to say I was surprised. I had read a little about it and knew what to expect from world building and narrative, and those parts were just as I expected. But the combat? Wow, it was siply amazing. One of the best gunplays in FPS that I can remember since, well, FEAR.

Which brings this comparison. TNO is probrably the first game that manage to capture that crazyness and intensity of FEAR, They had some common elements to make that happen: cool enemies with good combat AI, weapons that feel powerful, amazing gunplay, good level design, the ability to peek - or whatever that mechanic is called - and aiming down as a supporting, optional mechanic.

Anyone else thought they were somehow similar? And which you think is best?

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senses_fail_06

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#1 senses_fail_06
Member since 2006 • 7033 Posts

This topic is hilarious IMO. Gunplay is waaaaaay overrated in TNO. 10 year old FEAR still trumps it by a lot.

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organic_machine

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#2 organic_machine
Member since 2004 • 10141 Posts

I immediately thought of FEAR also when playing W:TNO. Truly great, from the hour and a half I got to play it.

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aroxx_ab

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#3 aroxx_ab
Member since 2005 • 13236 Posts

Have not played FEAR in ages but i remember it as it was better than The New Order

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PernicioEnigma

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#4 PernicioEnigma
Member since 2010 • 6662 Posts

@senses_fail_06 said:

This topic is hilarious IMO. Gunplay is waaaaaay overrated in TNO. 10 year old FEAR still trumps it by a lot.

Agreed. All these years later and still very few FPS's match the intensity of the firefights in the original fear.

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uninspiredcup

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#5 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 58646 Posts

The new order is a poor game with a decent story. Fear is a great game with a great story.

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Ghosts4ever

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#6 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 24847 Posts

FEAR is one of the greatest shooter ever. comparing it new order is an insult.

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GarGx1

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#7 GarGx1
Member since 2011 • 10934 Posts

Return to Castle Wolfenstein stomps both but Fear is a better game than The New Order

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speedfog

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#8 speedfog
Member since 2009 • 4966 Posts

@GarGx1 said:

Return to Castle Wolfenstein stomps both but Fear is a better game than The New Order

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Blabadon

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#9 Blabadon
Member since 2008 • 33030 Posts

The New Order's gibs and all of the surrounding gore, even the machine gore, is great, but no way does it have smart enemy AI.

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drinkerofjuice

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#10  Edited By drinkerofjuice
Member since 2007 • 4567 Posts

The New Order is a solid game. Well built with a story that's surprisingly intelligent. It doesn't come close to dethroning FEAR when it comes to FPS gunplay, but it beats it in probably every other aspect bar atmosphere.

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FrozenLiquid

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#11  Edited By FrozenLiquid
Member since 2007 • 13555 Posts

Oh wow, FEAR is ten years old.

Damn, I was here in System Wars when the game first came out.

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jg4xchamp

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#12 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64037 Posts

Fear is excellent, Wolfenstein is merely good.

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Bruin1986

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#13 Bruin1986
Member since 2007 • 1629 Posts

FEAR is in the top 5 best FPS games of all time.

I literally finished TNO a few days ago. It has satisfying combat but it lacks the amazing AI of FEAR and the mysterious atmosphere that made it a classic.

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speedfreak48t5p

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#14 speedfreak48t5p
Member since 2009 • 14411 Posts

I really need to get around to playing the new order one of these days. I might pickup a cheap copy of the 2009 Wolfenstein game to hold me over, since people say it's a solid game as well.

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padaporra

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#15 padaporra
Member since 2005 • 3508 Posts

I won't argue FEAR legendary status, I like it as much as anyone (although I'd argue it's not Monolith best FPS!), but don't believe comparing it to TNO is doing it a disservice.

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Cloud_imperium

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#16 Cloud_imperium
Member since 2013 • 15146 Posts

TNO is decent but FEAR is one of the best games ever made. Graphics still look great, AI still surprises me with its moves and gun fights are satisfying due to sound effects, smoke effects, destructible environments and slow motion. Scary moments in the game are very creative and storytelling is dynamic,

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uninspiredcup

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#17 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 58646 Posts

@Cloud_imperium said:

TNO is decent but FEAR is one of the best games ever made. Graphics still look great, AI still surprises me with its moves and gun fights are satisfying due to sound effects, smoke effects, destructible environments and slow motion. Scary moments in the game are very creative and storytelling is dynamic,

Very true. In retrospective, the only major problem fear had, was a lack of enviroment variety and almost wholly fighting the same enemies over and over.

While that may seem like a complaint for the time, for modern day FPS, fighting the same enemy over and over, it's standard. Which indicates how lackluster the genre has become.

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blueinheaven

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#18 blueinheaven
Member since 2008 • 5554 Posts

I loved Fear but got completely lost the whole time and couldn't remember where I had been and where I hadn't.

This should give you some idea how utterly shit I am at FPS. I haven't played TNO.

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padaporra

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#19 padaporra
Member since 2005 • 3508 Posts

@Cloud_imperium said:

TNO is decent but FEAR is one of the best games ever made. Graphics still look great, AI still surprises me with its moves and gun fights are satisfying due to sound effects, smoke effects, destructible environments and slow motion. Scary moments in the game are very creative and storytelling is dynamic,

But that's exactly what TNO has. The things that made FEAR combat so satisfying are there in the TNO. WEll, not slow motion, but I always prefered to play FEAR without it.

About the AI? Well, that's a more complicated discussion. But only thinking of combat, I wouldn't say FEAR AI is that brilliant. It fits the game, it's aggressive and it interacts very well with the environment, but that's it. Even if TNO's combat AI is not that good, it's also not much worse.

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sukraj

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#20 sukraj
Member since 2008 • 27859 Posts

I'm playing Wolfenstein TNO right now and its one of the best FPS experience I've had in a long time I remember playing FEAR on the 360 and I didn't like it at all it got to repetitive and boring.

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jg4xchamp

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#21  Edited By jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64037 Posts

@padaporra said:
@Cloud_imperium said:

TNO is decent but FEAR is one of the best games ever made. Graphics still look great, AI still surprises me with its moves and gun fights are satisfying due to sound effects, smoke effects, destructible environments and slow motion. Scary moments in the game are very creative and storytelling is dynamic,

But that's exactly what TNO has. The things that made FEAR combat so satisfying are there in the TNO. WEll, not slow motion, but I always prefered to play FEAR without it.

About the AI? Well, that's a more complicated discussion. But only thinking of combat, I wouldn't say FEAR AI is that brilliant. It fits the game, it's aggressive and it interacts very well with the environment, but that's it. Even if TNO's combat AI is not that good, it's also not much worse.

It absolutely is a lot worse, they do absolutely nothing interesting. They mostly stand there or shuffle here and there like generic FPS AI. Fear's AI takes advantage of the level design, they coordinate, they take flanking paths, they'll circle a garage area and work around the back door. It does plenty of clever things.

Plus effects wise? not the same, a room in Fear looks like the elevator scene from The Matrix when bullets are flying through sheet rock and papers flying with all them sparks coming out of those computers. In the New Order? The environmental effects are dull at best. The real joy comes from gib shots between all the blood, the meaty delimbing, and the death animations.

Fear's combat is a mixture of that excellent shooting (and the guns do pack more of a punch on raw feedback vs the ones in new order)+the slow mo to go along with some interesting enemies. The New Order is entirely carried by its mechanics, and some quality pacing. But it's outclassed in the core combat department.

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#22 drinkerofjuice
Member since 2007 • 4567 Posts

The funny thing about FEAR is that the gunplay doesn't do most of the heavy lifting, but all of it. Just about everything else about the game now is pretty mediocre. It just still does combat better than every other shooter released before or after. It's the reason why it's still worth playing.

At least with The New Order, it's a culmination of aspects that make it a worthwhile experience even if it doesn't have the same highs.

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locopatho

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#23 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24259 Posts

FEAR's mechanics were great but the levels and enemies were dull as dishwater.

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#24  Edited By FrozenLiquid
Member since 2007 • 13555 Posts

@drinkerofjuice said:

The funny thing about FEAR is that the gunplay doesn't do most of the heavy lifting, but all of it. Just about everything else about the game now is pretty mediocre. It just still does combat better than every other shooter released before or after. It's the reason why it's still worth playing.

At least with The New Order, it's a culmination of aspects that make it a worthwhile experience even if it doesn't have the same highs.

I think that's why it feels dated (along with its J-horror vibe) but still worth playing. FEAR was kinda shafted after 2007, when Crysis, CoD, Half-Life, Halo etc were battling it out like crazy. The FEAR sequels didn't help either. But once the smoke settled, it was obvious a lot of the later FPSes lacked FEAR's punch in combat.

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#25 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64037 Posts

@drinkerofjuice said:

The funny thing about FEAR is that the gunplay doesn't do most of the heavy lifting, but all of it. Just about everything else about the game now is pretty mediocre. It just still does combat better than every other shooter released before or after. It's the reason why it's still worth playing.

At least with The New Order, it's a culmination of aspects that make it a worthwhile experience even if it doesn't have the same highs.

the level design is significantly better than it is given credit, what it lacks in visual variety it more than makes up for in core design. And overall the pacing of that action is on point for the most part. It's not like they pulled a Rockstar and decided to get in their own games way with their bullshit - Max Payne 3.

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padaporra

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#26 padaporra
Member since 2005 • 3508 Posts

It absolutely is a lot worse, they do absolutely nothing interesting. They mostly stand there or shuffle here and there like generic FPS AI. Fear's AI takes advantage of the level design, they coordinate, they take flanking paths, they'll circle a garage area and work around the back door. It does plenty of clever things.

Plus effects wise? not the same, a room in Fear looks like the elevator scene from The Matrix when bullets are flying through sheet rock and papers flying with all them sparks coming out of those computers. In the New Order? The environmental effects are dull at best. The real joy comes from gib shots between all the blood, the meaty delimbing, and the death animations.

Fear's combat is a mixture of that excellent shooting (and the guns do pack more of a punch on raw feedback vs the ones in new order)+the slow mo to go along with some interesting enemies. The New Order is entirely carried by its mechanics, and some quality pacing. But it's outclassed in the core combat department.

I have to disagree here. I don't see that much differnet between the AI from both games, most of the things you said about what FEAR enemies do, the ones from TNO do too. I believe FEAR AI gets its credit because a multiple of factors, most of them having little to do with the AI itself. The level being small, the AI doesn't have to do much to flank you, all it has to do is take a different path. Or the fact that you can listen to the enemy radio chatter gives the impression they are actually thinking about their moves. TNO also has more enemies on screen a lot of times, and just like in FEAR 2, it may give an impression of a brainless mob just running towards you.

The particle effects is most likely correct. FEAR small levels combined to a lot of light environment destruction did create a unique feeling. TNO has some of that too, but it's more diluted.

But the shooting itselft I say it's close to a tie, also the punch of the guns. The assault rifle in particular works extremely similar in both games. So too does the rail gun. Enemy variety is also extremely similar. There's a singular type of soldier that you fight most of the time with some heavy armored versions of those thrown in between. TNO actually has the edge here.