Facebook has acquired Oculus VR.

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#201 Edited by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

@CroidX said:

@misterpmedia:

A developer we don't know anything about that is really something so where are the killer games for Sony VR?

you're spamming the same comment.

Avatar image for CroidX
#202 Edited by CroidX (1523 posts) -

@misterpmedia:

I asked a question and apparently its all over losing one game support for some odd reason

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#203 Posted by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

@CroidX said:

@misterpmedia:

I asked a question

the same question, which I answered.

Avatar image for CroidX
#204 Edited by CroidX (1523 posts) -

@misterpmedia:

No you didn't that wasn't an answer since I asked for a legit reason not some twit by someone who might not even make games. He didn't even provide any explanation.

Avatar image for commander
#205 Posted by commander (11910 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin said:

@evildead6789 said:

@seanmcloughlin said:

Such animosity towards facebook for absolutely no reason by a lot of people. It's weird that THEY bough OR but as a company Facebook hasn't really done anything awful or bad in the past.

Seems like people just hate Facebook because it's everywhere and for how people use it or act on it. Facebook the company aren't inherently bad

Tell that to the european parliament, it's not like in the usa you can just make a movie of someone and post his ass on the internet. Here , that's jailtime.

Facebook lobbyist are all over the place when privacy laws have to be voted. Facebook keeps everything they have of you even after you close down your account, they say you have a right to know what they have of you but it takes a lot of pressure to get that data.

Of course , if you're 16 now you don't know anything else, privacy is a human right . Once you would have privacy you would realize why you felt so restless, because you didn't have any privacy.

How many people do you honestly believe actually hate Facebook for these reasons?

You can hate for these reasons, nothing against that but anytime I ask why people hate Facebook they come back with a very stupid reason

Lobbying means applying pressure, the privacy laws are there for reason. Facebook company policy doesn't really value a basic human right like privacy, why ? because it's their core business.

If you think that's a stupid reason, well then that's your basic human right to have that opinion. I think Oculus made a very stupid move with this.

Avatar image for commander
#206 Edited by commander (11910 posts) -

@misterpmedia said:

genius, I saw that video lol

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#207 Edited by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

lol only just reached the Eva references on GAF, thread is hilarious.

Avatar image for killatwill15
#209 Posted by killatwill15 (855 posts) -

@misterpmedia said:

@CroidX said:

@misterpmedia:

Who the hell is that? And really minecraft oh well that's really a big lost so where's the killer games on Sony VR

Who knows, it's in dev like OR was. Games were being devved on it by devs, now some don't want to. Hardly a good look is it? But that's what's happening. Sorry.

if they were being developed for rift the assets would translate well to Morpheus,

its just a matter if gamers can stand the performance hit,

but one thing is for certain,

facebook is going to push vr to customers,

but they may push people to other vr solutions just because association with facebook,

its already happening

Avatar image for NoodleFighter
#210 Edited by NoodleFighter (8493 posts) -

The oatmeal called it

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#211 Posted by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

@CroidX said:

@misterpmedia:

No you didn't that wasn't an answer since I asked for a legit reason not some twit by someone who might not even make games. He didn't even provide any explanation.

You asked where are Sony's killer VR games, I answered 'Who knows'. Also, does he need to? If devs aren't a fan of Facebook acquisition they will flock to the next VR platform available. Word of mouth is a powerful thing.

Avatar image for TheFadeForever
#212 Edited by TheFadeForever (2586 posts) -

@misterpmedia:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/25/notch-oculus-facebook-minecraft/

lol have about I show you some possible feedback from developers

"We're very excited for our friends and colleagues at Oculus," David Reid, CCP Games' CMO told us. "We share their vision about the future of VR and gaming and are looking forward to participating in the consumer launch of the Oculus Rift with EVE: Valkyrie."

"I think this is a smart move for Oculus," Rami Ismail of Vlambeer told us. The developer behind Ridiculous Fishing, and, most recently, Luftrausers, said that while Oculus is well known on the tech scene, it needs a backer with a household name now that Sony has entered the VR space. "Facebook is a huge established tech presence, has amazing engineers, hardware, software, public mind-share and lots of money," he said. "I mean, I am not a big fan of exits as a business model at all, but in light of not really having a profitable business model, it makes total sense for them to exit."

Indie publishers are bullish, too. "Ultimately if Facebook allows the Oculus platform to get into the hands of more people, gamers or otherwise, then this acquisition will prove to be a good thing," Devolver Digital (of Hotline Miami fame) partner Nigel Lowrie told us. "We've seen what this next generation of VR technology from Oculus, Valve and Sony can do and how it can change the game. Anything that achieves a greater awareness and broader reach for video games as mainstream entertainment, and pushes new technology forward in new ways is ace."

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#213 Posted by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/25/notch-oculus-facebook-minecraft/

lol have about I show you some possible feedback from developers

"We're very excited for our friends and colleagues at Oculus," David Reid, CCP Games' CMO told us. "We share their vision about the future of VR and gaming and are looking forward to participating in the consumer launch of the Oculus Rift with EVE: Valkyrie."

"I think this is a smart move for Oculus," Rami Ismail of Vlambeer told us. The developer behind Ridiculous Fishing, and, most recently, Luftrausers, said that while Oculus is well known on the tech scene, it needs a backer with a household name now that Sony has entered the VR space. "Facebook is a huge established tech presence, has amazing engineers, hardware, software, public mind-share and lots of money," he said. "I mean, I am not a big fan of exits as a business model at all, but in light of not really having a profitable business model, it makes total sense for them to exit."

Indie publishers are bullish, too. "Ultimately if Facebook allows the Oculus platform to get into the hands of more people, gamers or otherwise, then this acquisition will prove to be a good thing," Devolver Digital (of Hotline Miami fame) partner Nigel Lowrie told us. "We've seen what this next generation of VR technology from Oculus, Valve and Sony can do and how it can change the game. Anything that achieves a greater awareness and broader reach for video games as mainstream entertainment, and pushes new technology forward in new ways is ace."

Never said there wasn't any good impressions. Just pointing out some devs won't be happy about this and will drop OR like a bad habit.

Avatar image for CroidX
#214 Posted by CroidX (1523 posts) -

@misterpmedia:

I'm talking about my first one where I asked for a legit reason and yea "Who knows" I guess I missed that part

Avatar image for TheFadeForever
#215 Edited by TheFadeForever (2586 posts) -

@misterpmedia:

So how many devs dropped OR so far because I'm not seeing a ton

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#216 Posted by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

Avatar image for DarthRamms
#217 Edited by DarthRamms (1107 posts) -

@misterpmedia said:

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/25/notch-oculus-facebook-minecraft/

lol have about I show you some possible feedback from developers

"We're very excited for our friends and colleagues at Oculus," David Reid, CCP Games' CMO told us. "We share their vision about the future of VR and gaming and are looking forward to participating in the consumer launch of the Oculus Rift with EVE: Valkyrie."

"I think this is a smart move for Oculus," Rami Ismail of Vlambeer told us. The developer behind Ridiculous Fishing, and, most recently, Luftrausers, said that while Oculus is well known on the tech scene, it needs a backer with a household name now that Sony has entered the VR space. "Facebook is a huge established tech presence, has amazing engineers, hardware, software, public mind-share and lots of money," he said. "I mean, I am not a big fan of exits as a business model at all, but in light of not really having a profitable business model, it makes total sense for them to exit."

Indie publishers are bullish, too. "Ultimately if Facebook allows the Oculus platform to get into the hands of more people, gamers or otherwise, then this acquisition will prove to be a good thing," Devolver Digital (of Hotline Miami fame) partner Nigel Lowrie told us. "We've seen what this next generation of VR technology from Oculus, Valve and Sony can do and how it can change the game. Anything that achieves a greater awareness and broader reach for video games as mainstream entertainment, and pushes new technology forward in new ways is ace."

Never said there wasn't any good impressions. Just pointing out some devs won't be happy about this and will drop OR like a bad habit.

Oh dear lord where are all these devs dropping Oculus Rift

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#218 Posted by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia:

So how many devs dropped OR so far because I'm not seeing a ton

the announcement was just recent, who knows.

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#219 Posted by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

@CroidX said:

@misterpmedia:

I'm talking about my first one where I asked for a legit reason and yea "Who knows" I guess I missed that part

What was your first one?

@DarthRamms said:

@misterpmedia said:

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/25/notch-oculus-facebook-minecraft/

lol have about I show you some possible feedback from developers

"We're very excited for our friends and colleagues at Oculus," David Reid, CCP Games' CMO told us. "We share their vision about the future of VR and gaming and are looking forward to participating in the consumer launch of the Oculus Rift with EVE: Valkyrie."

"I think this is a smart move for Oculus," Rami Ismail of Vlambeer told us. The developer behind Ridiculous Fishing, and, most recently, Luftrausers, said that while Oculus is well known on the tech scene, it needs a backer with a household name now that Sony has entered the VR space. "Facebook is a huge established tech presence, has amazing engineers, hardware, software, public mind-share and lots of money," he said. "I mean, I am not a big fan of exits as a business model at all, but in light of not really having a profitable business model, it makes total sense for them to exit."

Indie publishers are bullish, too. "Ultimately if Facebook allows the Oculus platform to get into the hands of more people, gamers or otherwise, then this acquisition will prove to be a good thing," Devolver Digital (of Hotline Miami fame) partner Nigel Lowrie told us. "We've seen what this next generation of VR technology from Oculus, Valve and Sony can do and how it can change the game. Anything that achieves a greater awareness and broader reach for video games as mainstream entertainment, and pushes new technology forward in new ways is ace."

Never said there wasn't any good impressions. Just pointing out some devs won't be happy about this and will drop OR like a bad habit.

Oh dear lord where are all these people dropping Oculus Rift

The mine craft dude already dropped it. Couple of tweets already suggesting people aren't interested in it now.

Avatar image for TheFadeForever
#220 Edited by TheFadeForever (2586 posts) -

@misterpmedia said:

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia:

So how many devs dropped OR so far because I'm not seeing a ton

the announcement was just recent, who knows.

So hardly anyone is dropping it like a bad habit then

Avatar image for DarthRamms
#221 Edited by DarthRamms (1107 posts) -

@misterpmedia:

So a couple of tweets from who developers?

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#222 Edited by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia said:

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia:

So how many devs dropped OR so far because I'm not seeing a ton

the announcement was just recent, who knows.

So hardly anyone is dropping it like a bad habit then

Devs are already showing a sign of not being happy with it, that's all I pointed out. I expect a lot more to follow.

Avatar image for TheFadeForever
#223 Edited by TheFadeForever (2586 posts) -

@misterpmedia:

Which devs? Your not exactly pointing out much.

Avatar image for godspellwh
#224 Edited by GodspellWH (964 posts) -

lol some people are way too paranoid its FB you know something I beat most people complaining use often.

Avatar image for godspellwh
#225 Edited by GodspellWH (964 posts) -

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia:

Which devs? Your not exactly pointing out much.

Devs we don't care about I wouldn't exactly buy a a VR for Minecraft. There already a mod for OR support it wouldn't even matter.

Avatar image for santoron
#226 Posted by santoron (8581 posts) -

@godspellwh said:

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia:

Which devs? Your not exactly pointing out much.

Devs we don't care about I wouldn't exactly buy a a VR for Minecraft. There already a mod for OR support it wouldn't even matter.

Well, if they keep it open source it wouldn't matter... Did anyone ask the dev about that in his Q&A? Because that's what I want to hear. The whole thing is still a tad disconcerting but open source confirmation would ease a lot of people on the matter.

Avatar image for hippiesanta
#227 Posted by hippiesanta (10292 posts) -

@CroidX said:

@hippiesanta:

Facebook has nothing to do with those games they only host them and allow them on their site

yes my darling ... I know that ...... but admit it ......candy crush, mafia wars, farmville is drooling to be part of OKULUS RIFF

Avatar image for godspellwh
#228 Edited by GodspellWH (964 posts) -

@hippiesanta:

How are games not made by FB have anything to do with OR seem to me people are coming up with ridiculous notions.

but but teh ads no shit fb has ads how are you going operate a free site when you have no source of money.

Avatar image for treedoor
#229 Posted by treedoor (7648 posts) -

@Desmonic said:

@treedoor said:

Have you ever noticed that your TV/monitor is quite capable of displaying movies that run at 24fps (which I don't think newer movies do), and video games at 60fps?

You don't have to buy a 24fps TV to watch movies, and a 60fps TV to play PC games, and a 30fps TV to play console games. You just buy one single TV, and it does it all.

Why do you think the OR would be designed in such a way that it can't also do this?

For the simple fact VR does not work the same as a regular TV/monitor projection.

If the FPS issue (which despite being a small part of the equation is an important one for the overall experience) was solved with an "upscaler" of sorts (which is, as far as I know, what the signal transmitters/broadcasters do) or by having screens that were capable of displaying media above said FPS count (which is what modern TV's actually do, nothing more), the OR team would be amazingly late to this party. They are not however.

Unless they prove me completely wrong, in which case I'll more than gladly concede, I don't think it'll be that easy to make the current OR a multipurpose device. Otherwise we would be seeing signs of it already.. I don't think there are any amateur movies/shows made for use with the OR(though that could simply not be cost effective for regular folks like us) nor is Sony packing their Morpheus VR into their existing headsets (which I think they would do so if they could).

You're right. There are no tv shows or movies made for the OR just like there are no tv shows or movies made for 4K TVs.

But it's not the creators of OR that have to worry about that. If there is a demand for OR-compatible video footage then other companies, not specifically OR, will create cameras that can record images that can display natively through the OR.

Avatar image for Jag85
#230 Edited by Jag85 (8759 posts) -

@CroidX said:

http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/25/facebook-to-buy-oculus-vr-maker-of-the-rift-headset-for-around-2b-in-cash-and-stock/

Zuckerberg says that their efforts with Oculus will continue to focus on gaming initially, and that the company will continue to operate independently of Facebook. But after gaming, Zuckerberg says, they’re going to expand into a variety of other arenas.

“After games, we’re going to make Oculus a platform for many other experiences. Imagine enjoying a court side seat at a game, studying in a classroom of students and teachers all over the world or consulting with a doctor face-to-face — just by putting on goggles in your home,” he says. “This is really a new communication platform. By feeling truly present, you can share unbounded spaces and experiences with the people in your life. Imagine sharing not just moments with your friends online, but entire experiences and adventures.”

That sounds a lot like the anime shows Sword Art Online and Accel World.

Avatar image for killatwill15
#231 Posted by killatwill15 (855 posts) -

@treedoor said:

@Desmonic said:

@treedoor said:

Have you ever noticed that your TV/monitor is quite capable of displaying movies that run at 24fps (which I don't think newer movies do), and video games at 60fps?

You don't have to buy a 24fps TV to watch movies, and a 60fps TV to play PC games, and a 30fps TV to play console games. You just buy one single TV, and it does it all.

Why do you think the OR would be designed in such a way that it can't also do this?

For the simple fact VR does not work the same as a regular TV/monitor projection.

If the FPS issue (which despite being a small part of the equation is an important one for the overall experience) was solved with an "upscaler" of sorts (which is, as far as I know, what the signal transmitters/broadcasters do) or by having screens that were capable of displaying media above said FPS count (which is what modern TV's actually do, nothing more), the OR team would be amazingly late to this party. They are not however.

Unless they prove me completely wrong, in which case I'll more than gladly concede, I don't think it'll be that easy to make the current OR a multipurpose device. Otherwise we would be seeing signs of it already.. I don't think there are any amateur movies/shows made for use with the OR(though that could simply not be cost effective for regular folks like us) nor is Sony packing their Morpheus VR into their existing headsets (which I think they would do so if they could).

You're right. There are no tv shows or movies made for the OR just like there are no tv shows or movies made for 4K TVs.

But it's not the creators of OR that have to worry about that. If there is a demand for OR-compatible video footage then other companies, not specifically OR, will create cameras that can record images that can display natively through the OR.

anything shot on film is 4k compatible,

everything shot after 2011 is 4k compatible,

so basically everything is 4k compatible,

I think you have 3d and 4k mixed up

Avatar image for napo_sp
#232 Posted by napo_sp (600 posts) -

hope the vr hype will soon die, I'm much more intrigued with 21:9 displays

Avatar image for GhoX
#233 Edited by GhoX (6153 posts) -

I think that giant pile of 2 billion bucks just made VR's future a reality. Those guys started with nothing but a concept, some random pieces Carmack found at home, taped together into this. Now they are billionaires.

Whether Oculus succeeds or not has ceased being relevant. As always, money has shown where a market exists, and the lure of money will create a new industry.

VR Hype used to be on the consumer-side. People think that there is potentials there, but nobody really knows. Now VR Hype will also exist on the commercial side, where it has been shown through pure action that the tech is worth its weight in billions.

Avatar image for Angryduck67
#234 Posted by Angryduck67 (228 posts) -

I do get a kick out of the collective fear-response stuff like this gets, although there are some scary implications. I don't think this will really change much, at least not for awhile. In time, it goes without saying the rift will eventually be unrecognizable, there are too many strings attached and too many dollars on the table for it not to become something completely different and a surrogate for whatever vision of the future folks like Zuckerberg have. There is already a direct correlation between the amount of time you spent on Facebook leading to having less actual friends, so FB is actually anti-social in nature. It isolates and insulates people from each other, and now the Rift will isolate and insulate us from any other freighting tasks that involve going outside. I imagine at some point, people will take classes and go to school in VR, watch film premieres, go on tours of foreign cities, and go scuba diving all in VR in Facebook's virtual world, on their virtual platform, living their virtual life. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

As for "serious business" PC gaming, VR is so demanding that it's impractical for any sort of traditional PC gaming, so it was destined to struggle as a niche-within-a-niche product. Now at least FB can take the hit, ship it at a loss, and make it a mass-market product. And I don't think it will matter, because FB wants the Rift to be successful. Very, very, very successful. The only problem is that now there are some strings attached, it will probably run on some kind of FB interface, and FB does not care about it as a gaming device in general and that will inform how they handle the company n the long run. You wanted open platform, and you got it.

Avatar image for AdrianWerner
#235 Posted by AdrianWerner (28437 posts) -

I'm quite happy with this. It was becoming more and more obvious that to truly succeed Rift will need some heavy capital. And I mean really havy, not dozens of millions, but hundreds of millions and even billions. And from all the big tech companies today that could deliver Facebook seems by far the best choice. They have the money, they're in it for the long game and they have proven they don't screw up with their big aquisitions.

Plus social is the best opportunity to take VR truly mainstream, which would also help gamers as more devices in the world = more devs support. SF novels have predicted huge virtual realities for decades and nobody is suited better to realize that idea than Facebook.

Avatar image for GhoX
#236 Posted by GhoX (6153 posts) -

@AdrianWerner said:

I'm quite happy with this. It was becoming more and more obvious that to truly succeed Rift will need some heavy capital. And I mean really havy, not dozens of millions, but hundreds of millions and even billions. And from all the big tech companies today that could deliver Facebook seems by far the best choice. They have the money, they're in it for the long game and they have proven they don't screw up with their big aquisitions.

Plus social is the best opportunity to take VR truly mainstream, which would also help gamers as more devices in the world = more devs support. SF novels have predicted huge virtual realities for decades and nobody is suited better to realize that idea than Facebook.

Well, Google, Microsoft and Apple all are quite capable. They are also all kind of evil like Facebook too.

Ah well, I guess we can't exactly be picky with the future. Future is going to be great with all the fancy tech, we just have to accept our new corporate overlord.

Avatar image for AdrianWerner
#237 Posted by AdrianWerner (28437 posts) -

@GhoX said:

Well, Google, Microsoft and Apple all are quite capable. They are also all kind of evil like Facebook too.

They are capable, but each would screw somehow with the device and make it worse. Facebook is bassicaly free money and huge marketing support for Rift to do whatever they want.

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#238 Edited by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia:

Which devs? Your not exactly pointing out much.

Notch, and some people on twitter. Who cares if they're not well known or indies, PSVR already has a wealth of AAA partners. The fact people are even saying they don't want to work with OR anymore is going to be a continually damning.

@godspellwh said:

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia:

Which devs? Your not exactly pointing out much.

Devs we don't care about I wouldn't exactly buy a a VR for Minecraft. There already a mod for OR support it wouldn't even matter.

we? who's we? You mean just you.

Also lol @ this

RIP Oculus Rift.

"According to a person involved in the deal who was not allowed to speak publicly because he was not authorized by either company, Facebook eventually plans to redesign the Oculus hardware and rebrand it with a Facebook interface and logo."

"As for exactly how Facebook will monetize Oculus, CEO Mark Zuckerberg said on the call to investors, "We're clearly not a hardware company. We're not going to try to make a profit off of the hardware long-term...but if we can make this a network where people are communicating, and buying virtual goods, and there might be ads down the line...that’s where the business could come from."

Lol

Avatar image for LegatoSkyheart
#239 Posted by LegatoSkyheart (28520 posts) -

I just hope this means Facebook is just wanting to get into the Gadget Market like what Google has done rather than destroying a once great Product.

Avatar image for TheFadeForever
#240 Edited by TheFadeForever (2586 posts) -

@misterpmedia:

You realize the OR has AAA partners as well and many are the same ones partnering with Sony also "some people" from twitter doesn't equate developers.

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#241 Posted by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia:

You realize the OR has AAA partners as well

Never said it didn't.

Avatar image for TheFadeForever
#242 Edited by TheFadeForever (2586 posts) -

@misterpmedia:

And I wouldn't say they have a wealth of them

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#243 Posted by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia:

And I wouldn't say they have a wealth of them

Which are you talking about now? lol If you're talking about OR then yeah sure I could see that. Sony showed us a slide at their GDC reveal of all the people that are supporting it.

Avatar image for godspellwh
#244 Posted by GodspellWH (964 posts) -

@misterpmedia:

So according a person? With no confirmation if its true or not real good source.

And what devs are we suppose to care about that guy Notch? And so we are suppose to care about these other so call devs that are apparently unknown.

If the network doesn't interfere with gaming I have no problem since people already say other possibilities on what VR can be used for

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#245 Edited by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

@godspellwh said:

@misterpmedia:

So according a person? With no confirmation if its true or not real good source.

And what devs are we suppose to care about that guy Notch? And so we are suppose to care about these other so call devs that are apparently unknown.

If the network doesn't interfere with gaming I have no problem since people already say other possibilities on what VR can be used for

You aren't really making sense. I'm not even sure what comment you're referring to. This is your opinion, stop saying we.Many people will be upset there won't be minecraft VR on OR, it's a blockbuster title that's selling millions.

Avatar image for TheFadeForever
#246 Edited by TheFadeForever (2586 posts) -

@misterpmedia:

Criware and fmod are AAA partners? They also don't even make games.

Avatar image for misterpmedia
#247 Edited by misterpmedia (5986 posts) -

@TheFadeForever said:

@misterpmedia:

Criware and fmod are AAA partners? They also don't even make games.

eh?

OT: Lol

Avatar image for TheFadeForever
#248 Edited by TheFadeForever (2586 posts) -

@misterpmedia:

Anybody can edit a wiki

Is this suppose to be a wealth of AAA partners?

Avatar image for donalbane
#249 Posted by donalbane (16383 posts) -

If you don't have to have a Facebook account to use it, I will still be on board. If you do, then I will get some other VR device instead. But in no way will I get a Facebook account and link it to a sensory deprivation helmet. Not happening.

Avatar image for DarthRamms
#250 Edited by DarthRamms (1107 posts) -

@TheFadeForever:

Besides maybe three of them do most of those companies even develop games?