DX 12 Coming to XBOX One

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#1 Edited by kbanna (665 posts) -
#2 Posted by tyloss (829 posts) -

Expect Games to run at sub 720p then.

#3 Edited by bfmv2007 (279 posts) -

Before lems get here, Open GL of equal or greater value than DX 12 coming to PS4. Anything DX does, Open GL can do the same. They are both equal and in some ways Open GL is better. But regardless, good new for the Xbone

#4 Edited by silversix_ (13553 posts) -

640p, DX12, corridor modern themed shooters here we go.

#5 Posted by Draign (526 posts) -

Seems like only Sony fanboys are caring.

#7 Posted by R3FURBISHED (10024 posts) -

One would think they would develop the Xbox One with DX12 in mind then, to release it so closely to the Xbox One

#8 Edited by Daious (867 posts) -

I hope Mantle really forced directX hand. Major improvements to the API would be huge for pc gaming.

#9 Posted by kbanna (665 posts) -

@daious:

How would the mantle force DX's hand?

#10 Posted by kbanna (665 posts) -

@bfmv2007 said:

Before lems get here, Open GL of equal or greater value than DX 12 coming to PS4. Anything DX does, Open GL can do the same. They are both equal and in some ways Open GL is better. But regardless, good new for the Xbone

Do you have a link to support this claim btw?

#11 Posted by HaloinventedFPS (4684 posts) -

Just for marketing so they can say, PS4 is DX11, Xbone is DX12, when in truth, PS4 & Xbone both use their own low level API's that are superior to whatever DX12 can hope to be

#12 Posted by 2mrw (4957 posts) -

But the X1 is so weak, it doesn't really matter.

#13 Posted by blackace (19719 posts) -

@tyloss said:

Expect Games to run at sub 720p then.

Not with the new SDK's, drivers and tools it won't. We'll know more at the E3.

#14 Edited by PinkieWinkie (1364 posts) -

@blackace: Yeah, those new SDKs are really helping. Just look at MGS, Watch Dogs and The Witcher.

Oh wait...

#16 Posted by Sushiglutton (5171 posts) -

XBone to the metal!!!

#17 Edited by kbanna (665 posts) -

@blackace: Yeah, those new SDKs are really helping. Just look at MGS, Watch Dogs and The Witcher.

Oh wait...

Just out of curiosity, what would you say he best looking nxt gen game is?

#18 Edited by BeardMaster (1580 posts) -

@bfmv2007: gotta admit considering nobody knows anything about dx12 its very impressive you know opengl is better already. Must be an industry insider. Can you tell us which features are being added to the new release?

#19 Edited by PinkieWinkie (1364 posts) -

@kbanna: consoles only, probably infamous, the order, the Witcher, and the division

#20 Posted by blackace (19719 posts) -

@blackace: Yeah, those new SDKs are really helping. Just look at MGS, Watch Dogs and The Witcher.

Oh wait...

You do realize the SDK was just released recently right. The Witcher 3, WatchDog and all those other games that have been in development for over a year won't be using it. MSGV is a port. Hideo didn't do any programming on XB1. lol!! He just ported that shit over. That game isn't even using XB1's upscaler. Complete crap.

Lets see how Halo 5 and Sunset Overdrive turns out.

#21 Edited by misterpmedia (3362 posts) -

@bfmv2007 said:

Before lems get here, Open GL of equal or greater value than DX 12 coming to PS4. Anything DX does, Open GL can do the same. They are both equal and in some ways Open GL is better. But regardless, good new for the Xbone

#22 Edited by misterpmedia (3362 posts) -

@blackace said:

@PinkieWinkie said:

@blackace: Yeah, those new SDKs are really helping. Just look at MGS, Watch Dogs and The Witcher.

Oh wait...

You do realize the SDK was just released recently right. The Witcher 3, WatchDog and all those other games that have been in development for over a year won't be using it. MSGV is a port. Hideo didn't do any programming on XB1. lol!! He just ported that shit over. That game isn't even using XB1's upscaler. Complete crap.

Lets see how Halo 5 and Sunset Overdrive turns out.

and what happens when they're not up to scratch, hmm? Will the magical SDK usage get pushed back to 2015?

Also it's probably best that MGSV doesn't use the Xbone's scaler, that's Hideo dodging a bullet there for all your Xbone gamers.

#23 Posted by PinkieWinkie (1364 posts) -

@blackace: source regarding MGS on X1? Or just talking out of your ass?

And btw, new SDKs wont make up for hardware deficiencies.

#24 Posted by kbanna (665 posts) -

@kbanna: consoles only, probably infamous, the order, the Witcher, and the division

What about games that are currently available?

#25 Edited by Epic-gamerz (196 posts) -

That's like bringing Dx11 to PS Vita

#26 Posted by PinkieWinkie (1364 posts) -

@kbanna: games like kz sf, ryse, bf4, and ac:bf. Why are you asking me this

#27 Edited by blackace (19719 posts) -

@blackace said:

@PinkieWinkie said:

@blackace: Yeah, those new SDKs are really helping. Just look at MGS, Watch Dogs and The Witcher.

Oh wait...

You do realize the SDK was just released recently right. The Witcher 3, WatchDog and all those other games that have been in development for over a year won't be using it. MSGV is a port. Hideo didn't do any programming on XB1. lol!! He just ported that shit over. That game isn't even using XB1's upscaler. Complete crap.

Lets see how Halo 5 and Sunset Overdrive turns out.

and what happens when they're not up to scratch, hmm? Will the magical SDK usage get pushed back to 2015?

Also it's probably best that MGSV doesn't use the Xbone's scaler, that's Hideo dodging a bullet there for all your Xbone gamers.

I doubt Hideo even touched a XB1 SDK to be honest. You probably won't see Halo 5 until 2015. Sunset Overdrive should be out this fall though. Spencer says it looking incredible.

***************************************************************************

@blackace: source regarding MGS on X1? Or just talking out of your ass?

And btw, new SDKs wont make up for hardware deficiencies.

We'll see what happens.

#28 Posted by kbanna (665 posts) -

@kbanna: games like kz sf, ryse, bf4, and ac:bf. Why are you asking me this

Because as your clowning the new sdk for not bringing anything to the table, while admitting (didn't think you would) that Ryse is one of the best looking games this generation so far. That new sdk can only improve X1 development. By how much...? who knows. But the point is that game was already 900p and looked better (imo) then any multiplatform game out. Development can only get better from here with that new sdk and graphics can only be improved.

#29 Posted by I_can_haz (6454 posts) -

@tyloss said:

Expect Games to run at sub 720p then.

#30 Edited by ronvalencia (15109 posts) -

@bfmv2007 said:

Before lems get here, Open GL of equal or greater value than DX 12 coming to PS4. Anything DX does, Open GL can do the same. They are both equal and in some ways Open GL is better. But regardless, good new for the Xbone

PS4 doesn't run OpenGL. According to EA DICE, PS4's APIs are claimed to be similar to AMD's Mantle.

------------------------------------

For the Windows PC, AMD is working with Microsoft to bring Mantle like performance with Direct3D.

DirectX: Direct3D Futures (Presented by Microsoft)

Max McMullen | Development Lead,

Windows Graphics Location: Room 2002, West Hall Date: Thursday, March 20 Time: 4:00pm-5:00pm

"Come learn how future changes to Direct3D will enable next generation games to run faster than ever before! In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware. If you use cutting-edge 3D graphics in your games, middleware, or engines and want to efficiently build rich and immersive visuals, you don't want to miss this talk."

---------------------------------------

Direct3D and the Future of Graphics APIs (Presented by AMD)

Johan Andersson | Technical Director, Frostbite

Dan Baker | Partner, Oxide Games

Dave Oldcorn | Software Engineering Fellow, AMD

Location: Room 3020, West Hall Date: Thursday, March 20 Time: 5:30pm-6:30pm

"In this session AMDs Dave Oldcorn, Frostbite technical Director Johan Andersson and Oxides Dan Baker will look at how new Direct3D advancements enhance efficiency and enable fully-threaded building of command buffers. They will demonstrate how AMD is using its recent experience in efficient graphics API design and its partnership with Microsoft to provide developers with the infrastructure to render next-generation graphics workloads at full performance. This presentation also discusses the best ways to exploit AMD hardware under heavy load and will invite developers to influence driver and hardware development."

------

The work on AMD's Mantle driver improvements gets recycled for DirectX 12.

From http://www.anandtech.com/show/7818/low-level-graphics-api-developments-gdc-2014

DirectX: Evolving Microsoft's Graphics Platform

Presented by: Microsoft; Anuj Gosalia, Development Manager, Windows Graphics

"However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console."

Notice word "console" and should you the clue on which GPU family will be supporting DirectX 12.

#31 Edited by Shewgenja (7928 posts) -

Good, it can use all the help it can get to not drag PS4 games down.

#32 Edited by Cyberdot (3510 posts) -

lol

So much for a TV box that does little for gaming. Not sure why Microsoft would bother with this.

#33 Edited by MdBrOtha04 (1820 posts) -

Xbox One can not emulate any Hardware features DX 12 may require. Nor can even the most expensive DX 11 GPU's on the PC side.

#34 Edited by ronvalencia (15109 posts) -
@MdBrOtha04 said:

Xbox One can not emulate any Hardware features DX 12 may require. Nor can even the most expensive DX 11 GPU's on the PC side.

DirectX 12 is a low level API, hence it's a lightweight API layer.

From http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx

"The Xbox One graphics API is “Direct3D 11.x” and the Xbox One hardware provides a superset of Direct3D 11.2 functionality"

AMD GCN in Xbox One is already beyond PC's DirectX 11.2 and your GK110 is only compliant to DX feature level 11_0.

It would interesting if DirectX 12 unlocks PC's AMD GCN to the same level Xbox One's DirectX 11.X instead of being gimped at DX feature level 11_1 i.e. DirectX 11.2 with feature level 11_1 + tiled resource tier 2.

#35 Posted by MdBrOtha04 (1820 posts) -

@MdBrOtha04 said:

Xbox One can not emulate any Hardware features DX 12 may require. Nor can even the most expensive DX 11 GPU's on the PC side.

DirectX 12 is a low level API, hence it's a lightweight API layer...

That will have features that are not available to current GPU's

#36 Posted by misterpmedia (3362 posts) -

@blackace said:

@misterpmedia said:

@blackace said:

@PinkieWinkie said:

@blackace: Yeah, those new SDKs are really helping. Just look at MGS, Watch Dogs and The Witcher.

Oh wait...

You do realize the SDK was just released recently right. The Witcher 3, WatchDog and all those other games that have been in development for over a year won't be using it. MSGV is a port. Hideo didn't do any programming on XB1. lol!! He just ported that shit over. That game isn't even using XB1's upscaler. Complete crap.

Lets see how Halo 5 and Sunset Overdrive turns out.

and what happens when they're not up to scratch, hmm? Will the magical SDK usage get pushed back to 2015?

Also it's probably best that MGSV doesn't use the Xbone's scaler, that's Hideo dodging a bullet there for all your Xbone gamers.

I doubt Hideo even touched a XB1 SDK to be honest. You probably won't see Halo 5 until 2015. Sunset Overdrive should be out this fall though. Spencer says it looking incredible.

Hideo, like any dev, loves money and getting paid for what he does so I'm willing to bet he did touch one. But let's not ignore the list of developers who've already struggled with the xbone. Spencer saying Halo/SO looks incredible? Yoshida says Uncharted 4 is looking the balls too, but we both know these statements are empty hype PR. I think the Witcher definitely should be using the new one especially as they are out spoken DX devs. Surely it can't be that pressing to port a game over to a new SDK that technically would be the same except the newer one promises some more head room in power.

#37 Edited by Krelian-co (9988 posts) -

@blackace said:

@tyloss said:

Expect Games to run at sub 720p then.

Not with the new SDK's, drivers and tools it won't. We'll know more at the E3.

a 7790 is still a 7790 no matter the drivers or "mythic sdk", xbone hardware is weak and no software can make up for that

2013 magic lem word - TEH CLOUD

2014 magic lem word - TEH SDK

#38 Edited by ronvalencia (15109 posts) -

@MdBrOtha04:

@MdBrOtha04 said:

@ronvalencia said:

@MdBrOtha04 said:

Xbox One can not emulate any Hardware features DX 12 may require. Nor can even the most expensive DX 11 GPU's on the PC side.

DirectX 12 is a low level API, hence it's a lightweight API layer...

That will have features that are not available to current GPU's

From http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-opengl-directx-gdc-2014,26188.html

"AMD Supports Possible Lower Level DirectX" - tomshardware

From http://www.anandtech.com/show/7818/low-level-graphics-api-developments-gdc-2014

Microsoft: “You asked us to do more,” the DirectX session reads. “You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

AMD: “AMD would like you to know that it supports and celebrates a direction for game development that is aligned with AMD’s vision of lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming,” reports an AMD rep. “While industry experts expect this to take some time, developers can immediately leverage efficient API design using Mantle, and AMD is very excited to share the future of our own API with developers at this year’s Game Developers Conference.”

Notice the word console with DirectX 12 i.e. MS's current game console is Xbox One which runs on AMD GCN.

DirectX 12 is aligned with AMD's vision on "lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming". Xbox One constant would be the clue if the current PC GPU hardware can run DirectX 12.

#39 Edited by PinkieWinkie (1364 posts) -

@kbanna: dude, what are you smoking. Ryse looks good, but its still being compared to launch games and its sub-hd and sub 30fps. Look at how almost every multiplatform games looks better on PS4.

#40 Edited by MdBrOtha04 (1820 posts) -

@kbanna:

@kbanna said:

@bfmv2007 said:

Before lems get here, Open GL of equal or greater value than DX 12 coming to PS4. Anything DX does, Open GL can do the same. They are both equal and in some ways Open GL is better. But regardless, good new for the Xbone

Do you have a link to support this claim btw?

Well the GPU in the ps4 may not use DX11.2 but it has the all the hardware to use it and OpenGL 4.4(Note the XboxOne can use OpenGL aswell not saying it does or will us it) This slide seems to be from AMD talking about the PS4's GPU.

#41 Posted by Solid_Max13 (3476 posts) -

This kind of sucks considering Direct X 11 is still very fresh and new and now we can;t get to used to it since MS is going to want everyone to go onto 12 now, I do find development for OpenGL better though.

#42 Edited by Stevo_the_gamer (42525 posts) -

Hopefully it's a worthwhile upgrade to DX11.

#43 Posted by LanceX2 (305 posts) -

@2mrw said:

But the X1 is so weak, it doesn't really matter.

such a dumb statement. Optimization matters period

#44 Posted by lostrib (31520 posts) -
#45 Edited by ronvalencia (15109 posts) -

@MdBrOtha04 said:

@kbanna:

@kbanna said:

@bfmv2007 said:

Before lems get here, Open GL of equal or greater value than DX 12 coming to PS4. Anything DX does, Open GL can do the same. They are both equal and in some ways Open GL is better. But regardless, good new for the Xbone

Do you have a link to support this claim btw?

Well the GPU in the ps4 may not use DX11.2 but it has the all the hardware to use it and OpenGL 4.4(Note the XboxOne can use OpenGL aswell not saying it does or will us it) This slide seems to be from AMD talking about the PS4's GPU.

In terms hardware feature set, AMD GCN covers DirectX 11.2+, OpenGL 4.4 feature set.

AMD just release it's OpenCL 2.0 "like" beta drivers i.e. OpenCL 1.2 with OpenCL 2.0 "like" extensions. AMD has stated it will be releasing OpenCL 2.0 beta later in the year. http://developer.amd.com/resources/heterogeneous-computing/opencl-zone/opencl-1-2-beta-driver/

From http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-microsoft-to-unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers

"In addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes,"

As part of unlocking more power for Xbox One, Xbox One's APIs also supports AMD GCN's asynchronous compute architecture. PC's DirectX 11.2 doesn't support AMD GCN's asynchronous compute units. It would be interesting if DirectX 12 unlocks this feature for PC's AMD GCN.

NVIDIA's HyperQ is similar to AMD's asynchronous compute queues.

Only NVIDIA GK110 and GM107 "Maxwell" supports HyperQ. All AMD GCNs supports asynchronous compute queues.

#46 Posted by MdBrOtha04 (1820 posts) -

@ronvalencia:

@MdBrOtha04:

@MdBrOtha04 said:

@ronvalencia said:

@MdBrOtha04 said:

Xbox One can not emulate any Hardware features DX 12 may require. Nor can even the most expensive DX 11 GPU's on the PC side.

DirectX 12 is a low level API, hence it's a lightweight API layer...

That will have features that are not available to current GPU's

From http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-opengl-directx-gdc-2014,26188.html

"AMD Supports Possible Lower Level DirectX" - tomshardware

From http://www.anandtech.com/show/7818/low-level-graphics-api-developments-gdc-2014

Microsoft: “You asked us to do more,” the DirectX session reads. “You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

AMD: “AMD would like you to know that it supports and celebrates a direction for game development that is aligned with AMD’s vision of lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming,” reports an AMD rep. “While industry experts expect this to take some time, developers can immediately leverage efficient API design using Mantle, and AMD is very excited to share the future of our own API with developers at this year’s Game Developers Conference.”

Notice the word console with DirectX 12 i.e. MS's current game console is Xbox One which runs on AMD GCN.

DirectX 12 is aligned with AMD's vision on "lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming". Xbox One constant would be the clue if the current PC GPU hardware can run DirectX 12.

Kind of like installing an updated dx11.2 on a computer with a gpu that only have dx11. Features get wasted. Your GPU will not be DX 12 compliant. Nor was the xbox 360 that had GPU features required by DX 10 ie unified shader architecture.

#47 Posted by leandrro (680 posts) -

@2mrw said:

But the X1 is so weak, it doesn't really matter.

its like extracting the last bit of juice from a very very tiny orange

#48 Posted by uninspiredcup (6830 posts) -

Called it. Said Microsoft didn't give a shit about pc gaming,

#49 Edited by ronvalencia (15109 posts) -

@MdBrOtha04 said:

@ronvalencia:

@ronvalencia said:

@MdBrOtha04:

@MdBrOtha04 said:

@ronvalencia said:

@MdBrOtha04 said:

Xbox One can not emulate any Hardware features DX 12 may require. Nor can even the most expensive DX 11 GPU's on the PC side.

DirectX 12 is a low level API, hence it's a lightweight API layer...

That will have features that are not available to current GPU's

From http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-mantle-opengl-directx-gdc-2014,26188.html

"AMD Supports Possible Lower Level DirectX" - tomshardware

From http://www.anandtech.com/show/7818/low-level-graphics-api-developments-gdc-2014

Microsoft: “You asked us to do more,” the DirectX session reads. “You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

AMD: “AMD would like you to know that it supports and celebrates a direction for game development that is aligned with AMD’s vision of lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming,” reports an AMD rep. “While industry experts expect this to take some time, developers can immediately leverage efficient API design using Mantle, and AMD is very excited to share the future of our own API with developers at this year’s Game Developers Conference.”

Notice the word console with DirectX 12 i.e. MS's current game console is Xbox One which runs on AMD GCN.

DirectX 12 is aligned with AMD's vision on "lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming". Xbox One constant would be the clue if the current PC GPU hardware can run DirectX 12.

Kind of like installing an updated dx11.2 on a computer with a gpu that only have dx11. Features get wasted. Your GPU will not be DX 12 compliant. Nor was the xbox 360 that had GPU features required by DX 10 ie unified shader architecture.

There's no word if DirectX 12 will require new hardware.

From http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx

"We’re also working with our ISV and IHV partners on future efforts, including bringing the lightweight runtime and tooling capabilities of the Xbox One Direct3D implementation to Windows, and identifying the next generation of advanced 3D graphics technologies"

Xbox One's DirectX 11.X superset and it's updated SDK/driver would be known as DirectX 12 on the PC.

I don't have any concerns with AMD GCN since DirectX 12 is based from Xbox One's DirectX 11.X superset + SDK/driver improvements (refer to Xbox One's unlock article).

#50 Edited by edidili (3446 posts) -

This kind of sucks considering Direct X 11 is still very fresh and new and now we can;t get to used to it since MS is going to want everyone to go onto 12 now

DX12 is the one that took the longest to come out. No idea why people wish for stagnation.

As for consoles, APIs mean little to them so this news is not that big of a deal for xbox. Its hardware is already set in stone. For consoles this was it, for the future 7 years they'll be left out of tech evolution.

The reason why APIs exist is to make it possible for games to run on a multitude of different hardware combinations by giving a common feature set. PCs, phones and tablets rely on them. Consoles have static hardware and don't need them. On static hardware developers can afford to go even lower level than they would with an API.