Does Nintendo just have inferior programmers?

Yeah the analog stick wore down pretty easily. I had 2 controllers, one brand new and the other was worn as hell, I had to push the joystick really hard to get any response.

Edit: ... and yes, I think it has superb controls.

@Epak_:

Nice to here that someone else gets it.

That video you posted was epic.

He's great. He doesn't hold the 120 record anymore but I don't see many others able to pull it off under pressure like that.

It baffles me that people don't grasp why the controls are so legendary--the player does literally every single movement. You can play it safe and play like a novice of course, or you can build the character momentum and do some truly amazing things.

***SGDQ 2015 is coming up late july, btw. Mario 64 is not the only great game to watch.

@Heirren: You're even more delusional if you think a speed run constitutes any sort of validation for your insane argument that game was the pinnacle of anything.

You want skill in games? Here you go:

^^

These two games have "infantile" controls. Now do what these two did. Go on, have fun.

And with that I'm done. Pointless to keep knocking on a wall. Enjoy 1996 and your mad skills.

I never said Nintendo has bad programmers. Anyways, technically Platinum Games isn't part of Nintendo.

I think it is quite clear that Nintendo games for the most part have never really pushed hardware to its absolute limits.

@emgesp: You should check out some Gamecube games.

Them some nice clicking skills in that video lol.

Bloodborne video not bad, i could down that Boss even faster than that though. Ill spam and get all up in that booty.

Show us some Donkey Kong or Contra, we want some real skills.

Or even a guy speeding through Bloodborne or Dark Souls, they requires skills to do, you have to dodge a lot and have quick reflexes.

I own a Gamecube, so I'm well aware of its library. The best looking games on that system were made by third parties.

@emgesp: You didnt play Metroid Prime, Fire Emblem, Pikmin, or Zelda Twilight Princess?

Yes of course I did. I still own a copy of Twilight Princess for Gamecube.

@emgesp: You dont think it pushed the Gamecube? I heard it pushed it to the limit.

Yeah it definitely pushed the Gamecube.

I just personally find RE4, RE Remake, Rogue Leader, and to a lesser extent Star Fox Adventures to be really impressive looking.

@emgesp: Well there not, did you know RE use fixed cameras and pre rendered graphics to make it appear better looking. Its easy to decorate the inside of a box, its hard to decorate the outside of the box.

I dont know about Rogue Leader though, ive never played it, it does look like good graphics.

Who cares if the cameras are fixed, or if it uses prerendered backgrounds. it still makes the game look good.

What about Resident Evil 4? No pre rendered backgrounds or fixed cameras.

@emgesp: True, but that doesnt make it more impressive, just makes it look good. Twilight Princess is impressive, how Nintendo made that game the way they did and compress it into such a small size is amazing. Sure RE looks impressive, but once you know their tricks and stuff it become less impressive. I use to praise it, and i still do, they did amazing work, but horror games allow you to do that, if Nintendo tried to make Zelda game that way people would riot, doesnt matter how good it looks, they would not be impressed cause they would lack control.

RE4 was an amazing achievement, but they had mastered the system and that engine by then and spent big money. But yes, RE4 was amazing in bout everything it does. Only a few games should push a system graphicly like that, but it better be a big selling game or else would be foolish to waste money doing that. Im still amazed at what they did, RE wasnt selling to good, but for some reason they went big.

The use of pre-rendered graphics is a big reason why REmake still holds up so well today. The pre-rendered backdrops were rendered with CGI tech that was a decade ahead of real-time graphics back then. And then that allowed the GameCube's power to be focused on making the characters and objects look as detailed as possible. Sure, it's a cheap trick (well, not really cheap, since CGI tech is actually expensive), but it made REmake look incredible for its time.

This is why people say the newer resident evil games are not resident evil games, and it is unfortunate that the team didn't envelop further along the lines of Code Veronica. Resident Evil created freight through film editing techniques. The original psx hardware was limited to a stationary camera. Code Veronica introduced panning, tracking, etc. Imagine with the hardware of today what could be done. This is why people are upset with the newer games. They aren't terrible by any means--it is more of a fanbase being bummed out of what could actually be produced within the spirit of the original games.

On their hardware. Which was made specifically for them, which is why the Third Parties go to people like Us at Microsoft.

Well said, yeah i shouldnt have called it a cheap trick, it was far from cheap, it was actually kinda innovative at the time. It worked great, it being a horror game and all. I do wish they would give us another like it.

Or programmers who never saw the need for online function when they can just put out a good game.

They have probably the best programmers out there, just play any Nintendo exclusive and you'll notice how well everything runs.

Nintendo doesn't have the power of Ms and Sony, therfore they try to offer different experiences than their counterparts.

Without Nintendo we'd be dominated by shooters only, so be glad Nintendo exists.

That's a bunch of baloney. There's plenty of games out there not made by Nintendo that are not shooters.

Hard to believe so many people are still on nintendos nuts, and still defend them here.

They have sucked since the N64, with a few great games inbetween.

Sure they have had some fantastic games, but they are always a mario/zelda/metroid etc... rehash.

I am so over nintendo, when I think of gaming they dont even come to mind.

@Advid-Gamer: Nintendo rehashes games the least in this industry. Madden, batman, Witcher, CoD, FF, Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, Assassin Creed, halo, Forza, GTA, MLB, Gran Turismo, i can name them all day. At Least Nintendo spices it up with their games and only release on per system. Thank goodness we dont get Mario Kart every few years.

they tried to get online on Pikmin 3 but couldn't (on a console stronger than the PS3!)

Open world games do have a structure, and they have an objective.

I've never seen Nintendo actually accomplish anything past what they've known since their heyday in basic gameplay formula. Games such as TW3 and GTA utilize incredibly complicated AI systems, traffic systems, NPCs wander through these massive worlds and they all have to be able to adapt to player input and change accordingly to other variables that are in a constant state of change themselves. Think about what these games are doing under the hood. To hell with polish, I find it a miracle they exist, period. What game has Nintendo ever done to show that they would be able to do this?

When people say Nintendo has polish and they have talented developers, this is inarguably true, but it seems to be said sans context and then held in comparison to games whose ambition far exceeds something that Nintendo always seems content to focus on over and over.

@MirkoS77:

Most open world games are poorly designed. They're more experience driven than game driven. The controls for GTA are still atrocious on consoles. Characters tend not to react to the game world, or do so in limited fashion.

I wouldn't necessarily say Ninty has inferior programmers, it's just that the hardware itself is inferior. You can only do so much with two Wii's duct taped together.

This.

@mesome713: My advice, dude. Don't bother with him.

Poorly designed is not the same as poorly programmed. We're talking about whether Nintendo has good programmers, not about their approach to game design.

Since IV, GTA has utilized the euphoria physics engine which directly impacts the feeling of controls as it needs to accommodate things such as weight, momentum, etc.

Provide evidence that the Witcher is a Rehash

@FireEmblem_Man:

Bout same design every time with just minor changes each time

lol that does look pretty rehashy.

Um... Star Fox Adventures (before Rare's MS buyout?), Metroid Prime, Wind Waker?

No they don't. Never have and probably never will. Seriously dude Nintendo might not interest you but don't diss the company.

I did say Star Fox Adventures, but that game wasn't developed by Nintendo. Nintendo was only the publisher.

@emgesp: Shigeru Miyamoto was a producer on it, so it was pretty much developed by Nintendo.

No, not plenty. The industry focuses on shooters when it comes to high budget titles. Nintendo are the exception.

I havent liked a nintendo console since the SNES. I'm really curious to know if Nintendo's new console they are working on will be good or just the same junk they keep releasing.

I'm not sure why they got the idea to release weak hardware in their consoles since the Wii, the gamecube was graphically on par with the other consoles just had a shittty god awful worst controller imaginable, which brings me to another thing, they need to make a good controller, copy the playstation controller if they have to, since the playstation basically copied the snes controller and put two analog sticks on it.

The SNES was the most powerful console at the time, hopefully their new console will blow away xbox and ps4 because i'd like to actually get behind nintendo again like in the old days and they can get ahead of these current gen consoles by releasing a true gaming system that can do 1080p @ 60fps.

@Yams1980: But Wii U can already do 1080p @ 60fps.

Also gamecube was most powerful console, and Gamecube controller is considered the greatest controller of all time, people still use it on Wii U, they refuse to let that thing go.

Copy the playstation controller? You mean the worst controller ever?

Sounds like you want a PS5, i would stick to them, let Nintendo be Nintendo.

Their games are some of the most stable I know of and that's pretty much the best metric of looking at the quality of the actual programmers behind it. Nintendo's programmers are most likely the most talented in the industry. Also I am a professional programmer in real life for what it's worth.

He/She meant on *ALL* games...not just some...& no BS like cinematic experience crap, :P

@superbuuman: So maybe they should complain about Xbox One and PS4 and ask them to make one that can.

Did you see Captain Toad or Hyrule Warriors? Both literally knocked my socks off in how good they looked despite how "weak" the Wii U is said to be.

Those games are gorgeous among many others.

I thought it was common knowledge around here that third party developers find the Wii U hard to program for. Wouldn't that make Nintendo programmers superior, and third party developers who cannot program for the Wii U inferior? Some third party programmers that can develop for Nintendo are Activision, Avalanche Software, EA, Namco, and Ubisoft. This cherry-picked for convenience:

"The ease of use compared to other consoles is assuredly attractive, too. By comparison, 63% of developers who spoke to IGN said the Wii U would be the most challenging platform to develop for. One creator went as far as saying, “we won’t be working on Wii U due to these complexities,” while another lamented the difficulty of moving innovative games unique to Wii U to other platforms. This poses the question: Will Nintendo once again need to rely primarily on first-party games to propel platform success? At any rate, the Wii U’s 2012 release window gives it a distinct advantage: time."

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/01/the-next-generation-according-to-game-developers

@Collie_Lover: There is no inferior when it comes to this type of development. The tools and environment are what determines how productive a developer can be. Nintendo has a development environment that they use and are familiar with, Game studios have their own. The difficulty comes when you try and develop using your tools and processes on another platform that does not allow you to use those tools. So you need to develop new tools or you struggle through a long process of repetition. What sets some studios apart is experience and type of programmers some have Graphics programmers who have enough experience to build their own tools and extensions to existing engines some don't.

Programmers and studios with more experience that can make their own tools for themselves and for others are superior to ones who cannot?

Yeah. This is why Nintendo games are always riddled with bugs, as compared to other companies games who make completely bug free games, such as Ubisoft and EA.