Do you think games like LIMBO, Journey, Dear Esther are pretentious?

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#1 Posted by parkurtommo (26449 posts) -

I was just wondering, since they seem to get a lot of hate for that exact reason.

If so, how are they pretentious? How can a game be pretentious?

#2 Posted by ispeakfact (5218 posts) -
They cant. Butthurt cancels out common sense.
#3 Posted by freedomfreak (39102 posts) -
I tried explaining to a friend what Journey was about when I was playing it. I ended up sounding like a pretentious tw@.
#4 Posted by Blabadon (25900 posts) -
They cant. Butthurt cancels out common sense.ispeakfact
What the hell does this even mean? On topic, no, only the developers can make them sound pretentious.
#5 Posted by parkurtommo (26449 posts) -
[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]I tried explaining to a friend what Journey was about when I was playing it. I ended up sounding like a pretentious tw@.

I know, which is why I never talk about it outside of the internet... :[
#6 Posted by ispeakfact (5218 posts) -
[QUOTE="ispeakfact"]They cant. Butthurt cancels out common sense.Blabadon
What the hell does this even mean? On topic, no, only the developers can make them sound pretentious.

Means you jelly. :cool:
#7 Posted by parkurtommo (26449 posts) -
[QUOTE="ispeakfact"]They cant. Butthurt cancels out common sense.Blabadon
What the hell does this even mean? On topic, no, only the developers can make them sound pretentious.

Yeah, and they don't make it sound pretentious at all, they aren't in the position do so anyways. For example Black Ops 2 trailers... now those seem pretentious imo.
#8 Posted by Rocker6 (13358 posts) -

I don't get it, why would they be pretentious?

What are the arguments of those who claims that?

#9 Posted by drinkerofjuice (3168 posts) -

Whenever there's a game that aspires to be more than simple entertainment, people are quick to call it pretentious. Not to say these people are wrong all the time, but this is part of the reason why this particular medium can't be taken seriously.

It's bad enough that a lot of people don't even know what the word means, and instead come to the lousy conclusions that being artistic = being pretentious. Always.

#10 Posted by parkurtommo (26449 posts) -

I don't get it, why would they be pretentious?

What are the arguments of those who claims that?

Rocker6
I have no idea honestly, I'm bringing this up since I just saw TotalBiscuit's "WTF is..." of Dear Esther, and he called it pretentious, I still don't know how he managed to come to that conclusion. And as you should know TB is a very level headed person...
#11 Posted by Heirren (16505 posts) -
I think they get undeserved praise because they are indie developers. Flower is GARBAGE. When people put that in a "top ps3" game list I just don't understand. Same deal with Limbo, which looks like a free to play flash game. Kids think it is cool to like the indie stuff so they make these things to be more than they are. I haven't played the full Journey....is it actually a game?
#12 Posted by parkurtommo (26449 posts) -
[QUOTE="Heirren"]I think they get undeserved praise because they are indie developers. Flower is GARBAGE. When people put that in a "top ps3" game list I just don't understand. Same deal with Limbo, which looks like a free to play flash game. Kids think it is cool to like the indie stuff so they make these things to be more than they are. I haven't played the full Journey....is it actually a game?

But have you actually played any of those games? LIMBO is not garbage lmao! :lol:
#13 Posted by ispeakfact (5218 posts) -
[QUOTE="Heirren"]I think they get undeserved praise because they are indie developers. Flower is GARBAGE. When people put that in a "top ps3" game list I just don't understand. Same deal with Limbo, which looks like a free to play flash game. Kids think it is cool to like the indie stuff so they make these things to be more than they are. I haven't played the full Journey....is it actually a game?

You sound mad.
#14 Posted by SNIPER4321 (10143 posts) -

I was just wondering, since they seem to get a lot of hate for that exact reason.

If so, how are they pretentious? How can a game be pretentious?

parkurtommo
I dont hate them. just hate their artistic color...
#15 Posted by parkurtommo (26449 posts) -
[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

I was just wondering, since they seem to get a lot of hate for that exact reason.

If so, how are they pretentious? How can a game be pretentious?

SNIPER4321
I dont hate them. just hate their artistic color...

LIMBO is grayscale :|
#16 Posted by drinkerofjuice (3168 posts) -
People are bashing LIMBO? Que? Not only was that game artistically potent, but it was a cleverly designed platformer. Great stuff.
#17 Posted by soulitane (13429 posts) -
Nope, they're not pretentious, they're just different. The way I see it is by themselves they're not but you can certainly make them sound it :P
#18 Posted by organic_machine (9685 posts) -
People are bashing LIMBO? Que? Not only was that game artistically potent, but it was a cleverly designed platformer. Great stuff.drinkerofjuice
Which is the polar opposite of Dear Esther which I would say is the defenition of a pretentious game, but it isn't really much of a game. It's more like pretentious guff which has some interactivity.
#19 Posted by parkurtommo (26449 posts) -
[QUOTE="drinkerofjuice"]People are bashing LIMBO? Que? Not only was that game artistically potent, but it was a cleverly designed platformer. Great stuff.organic_machine
Which is the polar opposite of Dear Esther which I would say is the defenition of a pretentious game, but it isn't really much of a game. It's more like pretentious guff which has some interactivity.

But why is it pretentious?
#20 Posted by Heirren (16505 posts) -
[QUOTE="parkurtommo"][QUOTE="Heirren"]I think they get undeserved praise because they are indie developers. Flower is GARBAGE. When people put that in a "top ps3" game list I just don't understand. Same deal with Limbo, which looks like a free to play flash game. Kids think it is cool to like the indie stuff so they make these things to be more than they are. I haven't played the full Journey....is it actually a game?

But have you actually played any of those games? LIMBO is not garbage lmao! :lol:

Yes. Flower, Limbo, Braid, and many other hyped psn/xbla games. A lot of the praised games just aren't very good. They remind me of iOS games.
#21 Posted by Loegi (1692 posts) -
Don't know about the others, but Limbo seems like it tries to be something big, but it's just a flash platformer with some stupid story. So it tries to be something it isn't, so it's pretentious.
#22 Posted by organic_machine (9685 posts) -
[QUOTE="organic_machine"][QUOTE="drinkerofjuice"]People are bashing LIMBO? Que? Not only was that game artistically potent, but it was a cleverly designed platformer. Great stuff.parkurtommo
Which is the polar opposite of Dear Esther which I would say is the defenition of a pretentious game, but it isn't really much of a game. It's more like pretentious guff which has some interactivity.

But why is it pretentious?

It the video game equivalent of modernist art. When people started writing poems with no meaning and no scheme, their argument was "who are you to say what true art is?!" Same thing with those painters that threw paint at a wall. No talent or beaty, just "art." there is no game in dear esther. It is an interactive short story. That was cool as a free mod. Now they have a full version? Sorry, I need a game to warrant a purchase. "Well who are you to define what a game is?!" Fine, waste your money on it and pretend to like it, but it's pretentious guff.
#23 Posted by parkurtommo (26449 posts) -
[QUOTE="Heirren"][QUOTE="parkurtommo"][QUOTE="Heirren"]I think they get undeserved praise because they are indie developers. Flower is GARBAGE. When people put that in a "top ps3" game list I just don't understand. Same deal with Limbo, which looks like a free to play flash game. Kids think it is cool to like the indie stuff so they make these things to be more than they are. I haven't played the full Journey....is it actually a game?

But have you actually played any of those games? LIMBO is not garbage lmao! :lol:

Yes. Flower, Limbo, Braid, and many other hyped psn/xbla games. A lot of the praised games just aren't very good. They remind me of iOS games.

How are they at all like iOS games? Braid I can sort of understand since it's aesthetics are a pretty solid 2D. But Flower and LIMBO, they are legitimate games... LIMBO has a fantastic art style, great atmosphere, heavy, meaningful platforming and controls (when I say meaningful I mean that you can really feel the controls, like you can feel the weight of what you're doing), I can't defend Flower since I haven't played it, but it looks like a good game, though I'm not interested in it.
#24 Posted by rilpas (8222 posts) -

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"][QUOTE="organic_machine"] Which is the polar opposite of Dear Esther which I would say is the defenition of a pretentious game, but it isn't really much of a game. It's more like pretentious guff which has some interactivity.organic_machine
But why is it pretentious?

It the video game equivalent of modernist art. When people started writing poems with no meaning and no scheme, their argument was "who are you to say what true art is?!" Same thing with those painters that threw paint at a wall. No talent or beaty, just "art." there is no game in dear esther. It is an interactive short story. That was cool as a free mod. Now they have a full version? Sorry, I need a game to warrant a purchase. "Well who are you to define what a game is?!" Fine, waste your money on it and pretend to like it, but it's pretentious guff.

I have to agree with this, when I finished Limbo I couldn't help but ask myself "that's it?"

and I'm not even sure if it's correct to say that Limbo has a story, more like, it has two short silent scenes and you're supposed to pretend it's a story

#25 Posted by xWoW_Rougex (2755 posts) -

Now that you mention it, I do get that kind of bad vibes from when I looked up screenshots of Limbo. Side scroller in black and white is kinda like pixelated side scrollers, they just scream "Yeah we don't even like 3D or modern graphics, we're indie. Look how indie we are, big corporations are evil, we represent the gamers!" and that kind of crap.


As for Dear Esther, nope. As for Journey, nope.



#26 Posted by NaveedLife (17179 posts) -

Own and beat LIMBO and Dear Esther. I enjoyed Dear Esther because of it's amazing atmosphere. Is it much of a game? not really. Is the story pretentious? possibly. That is all opinon. Was it worth it just for the amazing atmosphere? Yes.

LIMBO on the other hand is awesome in the game aspect. I think it is a very good game, the art is nice, and the story (or lack thereof) never felt pretentious to me. I think LIMBO and BRAID are both awesome games. Journey I have never played.

#27 Posted by Renegade_Fury (17054 posts) -

Boring games with boring ass gameplay that try to rely on atmosphere and emotion, I'd definitely say are pretentious. Terrible games like Limbo getting such high praise just make me smh.

#28 Posted by parkurtommo (26449 posts) -
[QUOTE="organic_machine"][QUOTE="parkurtommo"][QUOTE="organic_machine"] Which is the polar opposite of Dear Esther which I would say is the defenition of a pretentious game, but it isn't really much of a game. It's more like pretentious guff which has some interactivity.

But why is it pretentious?

It the video game equivalent of modernist art. When people started writing poems with no meaning and no scheme, their argument was "who are you to say what true art is?!" Same thing with those painters that threw paint at a wall. No talent or beaty, just "art." there is no game in dear esther. It is an interactive short story. That was cool as a free mod. Now they have a full version? Sorry, I need a game to warrant a purchase. "Well who are you to define what a game is?!" Fine, waste your money on it and pretend to like it, but it's pretentious guff.

I don't pretend to like it, I love it, since you actually have to think to understand what's going on. You could say that the monologue is nonsense and random drivel, but if you listen to it, and associate it to your surroundings, you can make your own conclusions about what's going on. And jeez, why does it even matter? It's a beautiful game, with beautiful writing, beautiful aesthetics, there really aren't any objective flaws.
#29 Posted by NaveedLife (17179 posts) -

Boring games with boring ass gameplay that try to rely on atmosphere and emotion, I'd definitely say are pretentious. Terrible games like Limbo getting such high praise just make me smh.

Renegade_Fury

Limbo and Braid have great gameplay :?

#30 Posted by Heirren (16505 posts) -
[QUOTE="parkurtommo"][QUOTE="Heirren"][QUOTE="parkurtommo"] But have you actually played any of those games? LIMBO is not garbage lmao! :lol:

Yes. Flower, Limbo, Braid, and many other hyped psn/xbla games. A lot of the praised games just aren't very good. They remind me of iOS games.

How are they at all like iOS games? Braid I can sort of understand since it's aesthetics are a pretty solid 2D. But Flower and LIMBO, they are legitimate games... LIMBO has a fantastic art style, great atmosphere, heavy, meaningful platforming and controls (when I say meaningful I mean that you can really feel the controls, like you can feel the weight of what you're doing), I can't defend Flower since I haven't played it, but it looks like a good game, though I'm not interested in it.

They look and feel like iOS games. Throw in some physics and call it a day--but IMO it makes the games feel loose, which is why I dont care for Little Big Planet either. The art direction is poor, as well.
#31 Posted by parkurtommo (26449 posts) -

[QUOTE="Renegade_Fury"]

Boring games with boring ass gameplay that try to rely on atmosphere and emotion, I'd definitely say are pretentious. Terrible games like Limbo getting such high praise just make me smh.

NaveedLife

Limbo and Braid have great gameplay :?

And Journey too, very smooth controls and animations, great level design etc. Can't say the same about Dear Esther though, since it doesn't really have gameplay, but that isn't necessarily a flaw.
#32 Posted by spookykid143 (10393 posts) -
I don't really give a f*ck either way I enjoy them and that's all I care about.
#33 Posted by parkurtommo (26449 posts) -
[QUOTE="Heirren"][QUOTE="parkurtommo"][QUOTE="Heirren"] Yes. Flower, Limbo, Braid, and many other hyped psn/xbla games. A lot of the praised games just aren't very good. They remind me of iOS games.

How are they at all like iOS games? Braid I can sort of understand since it's aesthetics are a pretty solid 2D. But Flower and LIMBO, they are legitimate games... LIMBO has a fantastic art style, great atmosphere, heavy, meaningful platforming and controls (when I say meaningful I mean that you can really feel the controls, like you can feel the weight of what you're doing), I can't defend Flower since I haven't played it, but it looks like a good game, though I'm not interested in it.

They look and feel like iOS games. Throw in some physics and call it a day--but IMO it makes the games feel loose, which is why I dont care for Little Big Planet either. The art direction is poor, as well.

Art direction is poor...? :| What's your definition of good art direction then
#34 Posted by NaveedLife (17179 posts) -

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"][QUOTE="Heirren"] Yes. Flower, Limbo, Braid, and many other hyped psn/xbla games. A lot of the praised games just aren't very good. They remind me of iOS games.Heirren
How are they at all like iOS games? Braid I can sort of understand since it's aesthetics are a pretty solid 2D. But Flower and LIMBO, they are legitimate games... LIMBO has a fantastic art style, great atmosphere, heavy, meaningful platforming and controls (when I say meaningful I mean that you can really feel the controls, like you can feel the weight of what you're doing), I can't defend Flower since I haven't played it, but it looks like a good game, though I'm not interested in it.

They look and feel like iOS games. Throw in some physics and call it a day--but IMO it makes the games feel loose, which is why I dont care for Little Big Planet either. The art direction is poor, as well.

LBP and all those games like Limbo and Braid have poor art direction? Holy hell, you need to have your eyes checked :P. I enjoyed all of these games more than Donkey Kong Country Returns.

#35 Posted by organic_machine (9685 posts) -
[QUOTE="parkurtommo"] I don't pretend to like it, I love it, since you actually have to think to understand what's going on. You could say that the monologue is nonsense and random drivel, but if you listen to it, and associate it to your surroundings, you can make your own conclusions about what's going on. And jeez, why does it even matter? It's a beautiful game, with beautiful writing, beautiful aesthetics, there really aren't any objective flaws.

But my problem is that it isn't a game, it's an interactive short story. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy or comprehend the story. I'm saying it isn't a game.
#36 Posted by parkurtommo (26449 posts) -
[QUOTE="organic_machine"][QUOTE="parkurtommo"] I don't pretend to like it, I love it, since you actually have to think to understand what's going on. You could say that the monologue is nonsense and random drivel, but if you listen to it, and associate it to your surroundings, you can make your own conclusions about what's going on. And jeez, why does it even matter? It's a beautiful game, with beautiful writing, beautiful aesthetics, there really aren't any objective flaws.

But my problem is that it isn't a game, it's an interactive short story. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy or comprehend the story. I'm saying it isn't a game.

I can agree with that, but how does that make it pretentious... Maybe you can accuse it of false advertising, that's it. :P
#37 Posted by Renegade_Fury (17054 posts) -

[QUOTE="Renegade_Fury"]

Boring games with boring ass gameplay that try to rely on atmosphere and emotion, I'd definitely say are pretentious. Terrible games like Limbo getting such high praise just make me smh.

NaveedLife

Limbo and Braid have great gameplay :?

lol, sure bud. If you like slow uninspired gameplay that consists of trial and error, by all means call it "great." Games that have to rely so much on aesthetics to pull you in, I'll call boring and terrible.

#38 Posted by organic_machine (9685 posts) -
[QUOTE="parkurtommo"][QUOTE="organic_machine"][QUOTE="parkurtommo"] I don't pretend to like it, I love it, since you actually have to think to understand what's going on. You could say that the monologue is nonsense and random drivel, but if you listen to it, and associate it to your surroundings, you can make your own conclusions about what's going on. And jeez, why does it even matter? It's a beautiful game, with beautiful writing, beautiful aesthetics, there really aren't any objective flaws.

But my problem is that it isn't a game, it's an interactive short story. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy or comprehend the story. I'm saying it isn't a game.

I can agree with that, but how does that make it pretentious... Maybe you can accuse it of false advertising, that's it. :P

What's pretentious is that this game is used like Modernist art as a radical redefinition of what a game is. Maybe not even the game itself, but all that's surrounding it. I loved it as a free mod, but I would never spend money on it.
#39 Posted by NaveedLife (17179 posts) -

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="Renegade_Fury"]

Boring games with boring ass gameplay that try to rely on atmosphere and emotion, I'd definitely say are pretentious. Terrible games like Limbo getting such high praise just make me smh.

Renegade_Fury

Limbo and Braid have great gameplay :?

lol, sure bud. If you like slow uninspired gameplay that consists of trial and error, by all means call it "great." Games that have to rely so much on aesthetics to pull you in, I'll call boring and terrible.

Braid had some of the best gameplay this gen. Uninspired? Did you even play it?

#40 Posted by Loegi (1692 posts) -

[QUOTE="Renegade_Fury"]

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

Limbo and Braid have great gameplay :?

NaveedLife

lol, sure bud. If you like slow uninspired gameplay that consists of trial and error, by all means call it "great." Games that have to rely so much on aesthetics to pull you in, I'll call boring and terrible.

Braid had some of the best gameplay this gen. Uninspired? Did you even play it?

Seems like a puzzle platformer, but with a TWEEST. Plenty of those already.
#41 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38214 posts) -

They're not pretentious at all, That would mean they're trying to impress you with something that isn't all that good. These games are most certainly good and the devs who made them are talented and know what they're doing.

It would be pretentious if the makers of LIMBO and the game itself got bad reviews and then the devs said something like "You just don't get it" or thought they were better than they actually are.

I don't think a lot of people actually know what pretentious means

#42 Posted by Heirren (16505 posts) -

[QUOTE="Heirren"][QUOTE="parkurtommo"] How are they at all like iOS games? Braid I can sort of understand since it's aesthetics are a pretty solid 2D. But Flower and LIMBO, they are legitimate games... LIMBO has a fantastic art style, great atmosphere, heavy, meaningful platforming and controls (when I say meaningful I mean that you can really feel the controls, like you can feel the weight of what you're doing), I can't defend Flower since I haven't played it, but it looks like a good game, though I'm not interested in it.NaveedLife

They look and feel like iOS games. Throw in some physics and call it a day--but IMO it makes the games feel loose, which is why I dont care for Little Big Planet either. The art direction is poor, as well.

LBP and all those games like Limbo and Braid have poor art direction? Holy hell, you need to have your eyes checked :P. I enjoyed all of these games more than Donkey Kong Country Returns.

I wasn't referring to LBP as far as art direction goes. The other ones rely on gimmicks. I compare this kind of art direction to that of somebody taking a photograph and applying an "artistic" photoshop filter to the image.
#43 Posted by Renegade_Fury (17054 posts) -

[QUOTE="Renegade_Fury"]

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

Limbo and Braid have great gameplay :?

NaveedLife

lol, sure bud. If you like slow uninspired gameplay that consists of trial and error, by all means call it "great." Games that have to rely so much on aesthetics to pull you in, I'll call boring and terrible.

Braid had some of the best gameplay this gen. Uninspired? Did you even play it?

Yup, just a bunch of shallow fluff that heavily relies on tunes to pull the player in. Sorry, I don't hand the title of "great" to games like that.

#44 Posted by platniumgamer (4087 posts) -

they are very pretentious.

#45 Posted by NaveedLife (17179 posts) -

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="Renegade_Fury"]

lol, sure bud. If you like slow uninspired gameplay that consists of trial and error, by all means call it "great." Games that have to rely so much on aesthetics to pull you in, I'll call boring and terrible.

Loegi

Braid had some of the best gameplay this gen. Uninspired? Did you even play it?

Seems like a puzzle platformer, but with a TWEEST. Plenty of those already.

Oh man. Now I am remember why I stopped using the forums. It takes way too much of my time with battling people about topics :P.

TO each their own, and none of these games are perfect, but they are all very visually pleasing and interesting titles, with creative and fun gameplay. I think Limbo and Braid are more enjoyable than the majority of Nintendo's platformers this gen, which is just sad.

#46 Posted by kaealy (1453 posts) -
Definition of PRETENTIOUS 1 : characterized by pretension: as a : making usually unjustified or excessive claims (as of value or standing) b : expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature 2 : making demands on one's skill, ability, or means : ambitious Could anyone show me where the devs of either Limbo or Dear Esther are guilty for any "offense" in the definition of the word?
#47 Posted by Stringerboy (6946 posts) -

No because those games succeed in what they are trying to convey to the player.

#48 Posted by rilpas (8222 posts) -

They're not pretentious at all, That would mean they're trying to impress you with something that isn't all that good. These games are most certainly good and the devs who made them are talented and know what they're doing.

It would be pretentious if the makers of LIMBO and the game itself got bad reviews and then the devs said something like "You just don't get it" or thought they were better than they actually are.

I don't think a lot of people actually know what pretentious means

seanmcloughlin

personally I don't feel that the gameplay in Limbo was all that good

#49 Posted by AmazonTreeBoa (16745 posts) -
I own Limbo, but haven't played it yet. I loved the demo to Journey and plan on purchasing it. Not sure if I want to buy Dear Esther or just watch it on Youtube.
#50 Posted by Heirren (16505 posts) -
[QUOTE="kaealy"]Definition of PRETENTIOUS 1 : characterized by pretension: as a : making usually unjustified or excessive claims (as of value or standing) b : expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature 2 : making demands on one's skill, ability, or means : ambitious Could anyone show me where the devs of either Limbo or Dear Esther are guilty for any "offense" in the definition of the word?

About a year ago, I think, gamespot had an interview with the Braid creator. I don't really remember what was said though. If I do recall correctly though, I believe he went on about what is wrong with current game design.