Do Nintendo really have the best first party games?

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#1 Posted by Kjranu (1008 posts) -

I believe that they don't and it is a myth perpetuated by Nintendo fans. They are dead last in quality first party games compared to Sony or Microsoft. Why? Their avoidance of Western developers and trends may be to blame. I don't believe they employ one Western developer at all. Sony is a mix of Japanese and Western developers and Microsoft is definitely Western-oriented but they have hired Japanese developers to make Xbox more appealing to Japanese customers.

What's the problem with Nintendo games? Practically all their games are shallow and lacking in depth, story and dialogue tend to be poorly written (not in a grammatical sense but rather they don't captivate at all), often are recycles of previous games like Super Mario games. That's a trend and it is truly amazing that they have managed to hold on all these years despite the appalling lack of quality in their games.

They haven't at all evolved from the 80s. The Wii U is a great example in fact. The OS is so archaic. It makes me wonder what the heck they were thinking when they made the OS for Wii U.

Lastly, take Mario Kart 8, the latest hot-selling Nintendo game, but is it truly deserving of that status? It is definitely not. The game is far too simplistic from the menu, game options and features, the UI, and to the lack of a real progression system. It's not a video game, but a children's toy. That's what Mario Kart 8 is.

Nintendo games are stuck in the 80s, and the Wii was a one-hit wonder that certainly won't happen again.

#2 Posted by StormyJoe (5387 posts) -

@Kjranu: "Best" is a bit too subjective. However, they definitely have the most "iconic" franchises. Ask a non-gamer about "Nathan Drake" or "master Chief", and there is a good chance you will get a "huh"? Ask them about "Mario", and chances are they will know what you are talking about.

#3 Posted by jg4xchamp (48166 posts) -

Do they have the best first party? Sure, the talent level is unmatched.

Do they actually live up to their billing in recent years as the best first party, and more importantly one of (if not THE) greatest development houses of all time? no. Their great stuff comes out rarely, they are creatively deprived, and they've created some duds as well.

#4 Edited by speedfreak48t5p (7894 posts) -

TC is a jelly cow confirmed.

#5 Posted by Demonjoe93 (9598 posts) -

Something like Mario Kart doesn't need to be complicated to be considered a video game. I think something simple Mario Kart can be just as enjoyable as something complex like a fighting game.

#6 Posted by DocSanchez (1607 posts) -

I think there are a few sacred cows which, were they released with different characters by different developers, would not make nearly the same impact. It's become a rallying cry for Nintendo fans, because it has to be true else Nintendo has nothing. A known truth that Nintendo has best first party. They are undoubtedly finely crafted with lots of care, but 2D platformers do nothing any more, and they don't even release the best ones any more. 3D platformers aren't what they used to be, and Mario Kart and Smash have just been done already.

But such a thing is subjective. And largely irrelevant. Because what is not subjective is the size of a library, and Nintendo systems have the smallest by far. They have no third party, and third party releases have, with few exceptions, been my favourite releases last generation.

Red Dead Redemption, Mass Effects, Skyrim, Demon's/Dark Souls 1-2. The third party is talked down particularly by people who have to make a point but the truth is, this is where a lot of quality lies.

#7 Edited by CrownKingArthur (4813 posts) -

i don't know. i just don't know.

#8 Posted by wiifan001 (18416 posts) -

@Kjranu said:

I believe that they don't and it is a myth perpetuated by Nintendo fans. They are dead last in quality first party games compared to Sony or Microsoft. Why? Their avoidance of Western developers and trends may be to blame.

Your opinion is wrong and I stopped reading here.

You're Welcome

#9 Edited by Zelda187 (880 posts) -

How many times can you continue to play Mario, Zelda and Donkey Kong?

It's been this way for 30 years with Nintendo.

I'm intrigued with the WiiU simply because Nintendo is seemingly the last platform that still offers JRPG games.

#10 Posted by KungfuKitten (21081 posts) -

Since nobody is challenging Nintendo, should those games no longer be made? I'm happy that they do, and in doing so they fill quite a few niches in the gaming industry.

#11 Posted by MBirdy88 (8244 posts) -

Is it hard to understand that gameplay is more important than all those things and fun factor?

sigh.... TLOU .... the ultimate example of everything wrong with GAMING awards.

#12 Posted by foxhound_fox (88439 posts) -

You'd have to be significantly biased to not see their quality control leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the competition.

#13 Edited by bbkkristian (14953 posts) -

That moment when you realize the Wii U OS is oddly similar to iOS.....

Really though? Judging Mario Kart 8 because of its menu? I've heard it all.

Back onto your original topic. Nintendo has Zelda (action/adventure), Xeno series (JRPG), Fire Emblem (SRPG), Mario (Platformer, Kart Racer, RPG, Sports), Pikmin (RTS), StarFox (Dogfighter, on rails shooter), Splatoon (TPS), Kirby (Platformer/Action), Animal Crossing (Simulation), Pokemon (JRPG), Metroid (Platformer/Shooter, FPS), Smash Bros (Fighter). Any genre I didn't cover?

#14 Posted by FlamesOfGrey (7509 posts) -

If you like playing variations on the same games that have been around for decades, sure. Millions of people do which is why they're still in business. I don't though so not to me.

#15 Edited by cainetao11 (17610 posts) -

Their reused franchises are for the new gamers that havent played them for 30 years.............................................I had to LOL

#16 Posted by Heil68 (44693 posts) -

Not to me personally they dont. I seem to have outgrown them or at the very minimum the majority of their first part games dont appeal to me.

#17 Posted by drummerdave9099 (720 posts) -

All their first party series have had their ups and downs, and there are currently too many platformers- Mario, Yoshi, Donkey Kong Country, and Kirby. Too many platformers!!!

But I'll still take Zelda over anything so yes for me they have the best 1st party

#18 Edited by Gue1 (10029 posts) -

saying that Nintendo has the best 1st party is nothing but hyperbole from fanboys. I do believe that they are the best at the kind of games they do but they don't make great games in every genre. So if you don't like the stuff they make then it is impossible for you to say that Nintendo has the best first party.

#19 Posted by kingjazziephiz (2427 posts) -

I believe they do.

#20 Edited by Gue1 (10029 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:

Is it hard to understand that gameplay is more important than all those things and fun factor?

sigh.... TLOU .... the ultimate example of everything wrong with GAMING awards.

gameplay is not more important than anything. Games are games and there are many kind of them like those shitty point and click adventures that so many people seem to enjoy so much. Gameplay still has its place in games like Street Fighter and stuff but it's not the one thing that makes of breaks a game anymore. Games these days are more than just pressing buttons in a timely manner. Gaming has expanded and it has evolved too.

#21 Posted by SolidTy (43395 posts) -

I don't know. It's subjective.

They are great though.

#22 Posted by osan0 (12727 posts) -

i cant think of anything from sony or MS that gives nintendo a run for their money in terms of first party. in terms of first party development they are hard to top imho. nintendo continue to make cracking games (with the odd misfire) and continue to try new things within existing franchises (also their translations are vastly improved from even 10 years ago. games like animal crossing show that nintendo can do whe whole writing thing when they want to).

but it is the 3rd parties that are setting the standard now in the vast majority of areas in terms of new ideas and ambition (an area where nintendo has proven weaker so far).

back in the N64 days nintendo had to solve the problem of navigation in a 3D world and they set the standard in how to do that (before that the limited games in 3D mostly used D-pads). when looking at making a FPS work on a console they completely changed the focus on how that type of game could work and we got metroid prime....and it was fantastic. with mario galaxy they took away control of the camera because the camera control was interfering with the platforming. this was the correct decision on nintendos part but very very hard to get right.

perhaps nintendo needs to find a new problem in the industry to solve in terms of nuts and bolts game mechanics. splatoon is certainly an interesting take on team death match (its about territority rather than kill:death ratios). maybe, with the new zelda, they have set themselves the challenge of properly integrating a big free roaming overworld into an adventure game and, in so doing, could show how to solve a lot of problems that have or may appear in other games like elder scrolls or witcher 3.

they also really need to show good uses for the wiiu gamepad. thats a challenge they have yet to meet.

so they are still the best first party....but they dont necessarily make the very best games in the industry. still some class games though.

#23 Posted by Zen_Light (1236 posts) -

@Kjranu said:

I believe that they don't and it is a myth perpetuated by Nintendo fans. They are dead last in quality first party games compared to Sony or Microsoft.

Stopped reading right there.

#24 Posted by parkurtommo (27102 posts) -

Honestly, I love Zelda, but everything else can go die in a fire. Especially Mario. I hate seeing creative people just fall back on their couches, redoing the same concepts again and again, and again. Do something different!

I won't say that their first party is worse, or better. But with comparisons aside, they shouldn't be so attached to what they did 30 years ago. Maybe once the old guys like Miyamoto retire, something might change.

#25 Posted by dave123321 (34084 posts) -

Seems so

#26 Edited by Shinobishyguy (22471 posts) -

> appaling lack of quality

Holy shit OP you must be a riot at parties

#27 Posted by yokofox33 (29707 posts) -

I certainly think Nintendo has the best first party games. Their exclusives are my favorite for sure.

#28 Posted by PapaTrop (1250 posts) -

Yeah, they do, but it's not saying much because Sony and MS don't have very good 1st parties.

#29 Posted by PrincessGomez92 (3579 posts) -

Obvious troll thread.

#30 Posted by hiphops_savior (7917 posts) -

According to Gamerankings All-Time List:

Nintendo- Super Mario Galaxy, Ocarina of Time, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Super Mario 64, Metroid Prime, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker (Golden Eye and Perfect Dark are both published by Nintendo, but Nintendo has no creative imput)

Sony Computers and Entertainment- Uncharted 2, The Last of Us, Gran Turismo, Gran Turismo 3, LittleBigPlanet

Sega- Soul Calibur, NFL 2K1

Microsoft- Halo: Combat Evolved

Final Tally

Nintendo- 7

Sony- 5

Sega- 2

Microsoft- 1

#31 Posted by mems_1224 (47161 posts) -

Nintendo has always had the best first party.

#32 Posted by xLittlekillx (1808 posts) -

Yes.

#33 Posted by DEadliNE-Zero0 (2483 posts) -

@bbkkristian said:

That moment when you realize the Wii U OS is oddly similar to iOS.....

Really though? Judging Mario Kart 8 because of its menu? I've heard it all.

Back onto your original topic. Nintendo has Zelda (action/adventure), Xeno series (JRPG), Fire Emblem (SRPG), Mario (Platformer, Kart Racer, RPG, Sports), Pikmin (RTS), StarFox (Dogfighter, on rails shooter), Splatoon (TPS), Kirby (Platformer/Action), Animal Crossing (Simulation), Pokemon (JRPG), Metroid (Platformer/Shooter, FPS), Smash Bros (Fighter). Any genre I didn't cover?

This. It seems people keep forgetting Nintendo isn't just Zelda or Mario. And the WiiU isn't their only console. But unlike the vita, there's also alot of 3DS designed games.

@Kjranu said:

Practically all their games are shallow and lacking in depth, story and dialogue tend to be poorly written

So, the vast majority of the PS and Xbox exclusive line up. Next you'll tell me Uncharted is "deep". Can't comment on Halo.

#34 Posted by gamer2444 (31 posts) -

Nintendo suck really bad in the last 10 years...mario and zelda are way overated.

#35 Edited by PS4hasNOgames (1771 posts) -

fail post. any nintendo game released is usually the best of its genre. racing, fighting, adventure, platform, RPG (xenoblade chronicles)

#36 Posted by Renegade_Fury (17164 posts) -

This is the way I see it when it comes to first party:

  • Sony has nothing
  • Microsoft has Halo and Gears
  • Nintendo has Zelda, Metroid, and F-Zero, but only Zelda ever sees the light of day once every 3 + years.

So yeah, I prefer third party games over all of them.

#37 Posted by hiphops_savior (7917 posts) -

@ps4hasnogames: Kart racing, yes. Will Nintendo make a racing sim that rivals GT or Forza? Probably not. SRPG, it's between Advance Wars and Fire Emblem.

#38 Posted by Vecna (3394 posts) -

If you like gameplay then Nintendos first party is unrivaled.

If you like watching your games, Sony is king.

If you like flapping your arms in the air like a moron, Microsoft corners the market.

If you like playing on a system that isn't crap, do yourself a favor and get a pc.

#39 Posted by svaubel (2479 posts) -

@Kjranu said:

I believe that they don't and it is a myth perpetuated by Nintendo fans. They are dead last in quality first party games compared to Sony or Microsoft. Why? Their avoidance of Western developers and trends may be to blame. I don't believe they employ one Western developer at all. Sony is a mix of Japanese and Western developers and Microsoft is definitely Western-oriented but they have hired Japanese developers to make Xbox more appealing to Japanese customers.

What's the problem with Nintendo games? Practically all their games are shallow and lacking in depth, story and dialogue tend to be poorly written (not in a grammatical sense but rather they don't captivate at all), often are recycles of previous games like Super Mario games. That's a trend and it is truly amazing that they have managed to hold on all these years despite the appalling lack of quality in their games.

They haven't at all evolved from the 80s. The Wii U is a great example in fact. The OS is so archaic. It makes me wonder what the heck they were thinking when they made the OS for Wii U.

Lastly, take Mario Kart 8, the latest hot-selling Nintendo game, but is it truly deserving of that status? It is definitely not. The game is far too simplistic from the menu, game options and features, the UI, and to the lack of a real progression system. It's not a video game, but a children's toy. That's what Mario Kart 8 is.

Nintendo games are stuck in the 80s, and the Wii was a one-hit wonder that certainly won't happen again.

At least Wii U has first party games, or even games in general. Cant say the same about either of the other systems.

#40 Posted by 93BlackHawk93 (5554 posts) -

Another fool that thinks Nintendo is just Mario and Zelda...

#41 Posted by TrappedInABox91 (679 posts) -

Yes. Nintendo is first party, while lacking in 3rd party since for almost ever.

When Nintendo themselves make games, they fucking got their shit together. Anyone who says otherwise is a moron.

#42 Posted by charizard1605 (57755 posts) -

Yes.

Your OP is hilariously wrong and full of misinformation. 'Their games are shallow and haven't evolved at all over the last 30 years,' give me a break.

#43 Posted by dobzilian (2490 posts) -

No western developers... Retro in Texas must be somewhere jn Japan.

#44 Edited by LegatoSkyheart (25380 posts) -

Nintendo's IPs have the same strength in them that are found in Marvel's and DC's Super Heroes.

30 years from now We will still see a Mario game, We will still see a Zelda game, Metroid will pop up here or there, Kids and Adults will still be trying to Catch all the Pokemon...

It's questionable if we're going to see them on a Nintendo console, but there's no doubt in my mind that Those IPs that Nintendo have are timeless and will probably never go away.

Another such franchise that will not die is Grand Theft Auto. There's always a market for Grand Theft Auto.

#45 Edited by Kjranu (1008 posts) -

@charizard1605 said:

Yes.

Your OP is hilariously wrong and full of misinformation. 'Their games are shallow and haven't evolved at all over the last 30 years,' give me a break.

It's obviously a bit of an exaggeration but it's my way of getting my point across that Nintendo's mostly made basic, simplistic games that don't advance gaming at all. Gaming is an art, but Nintendo treats gaming like a toy. That's the general mentality at Nintendo where they treat gaming as just another toy rather than art with potential to excel in new paradigms and aesthetics. The mentality is heavily reflected in their games. Mario Kart 8, LoZ:WW, two major Nintendo 'blockbusters' prove my point. They simply don't compare with modern Western games that have actually evolved with time. I'm going to use a generic example, Halo, you can see major improvements and changes between Halo 1 and 4 in storytelling, graphics, gameplay and UI. Have you seen similar improvements and changes over a reasonable period of time in Nintendo games? I haven't and I can't see them being capable of it without a major mentality shift. Mario Kart 8 has barely evolved from its N64 predecessor. It is that horrendous.

#46 Posted by nintendoboy16 (26754 posts) -

@93BlackHawk93 said:

Another fool that thinks Nintendo is just Mario and Zelda...

That's what happens when they're the top selling franchises they have unfortunately. Add Pokemon too despite that being spread in three equal parts (but regardless, Pokemon is affiliated with Nintendo, so it counts).

#47 Posted by nintendoboy16 (26754 posts) -

@Kjranu said:

@charizard1605 said:

Yes.

Your OP is hilariously wrong and full of misinformation. 'Their games are shallow and haven't evolved at all over the last 30 years,' give me a break.

It's obviously a bit of an exaggeration but it's my way of getting my point across that Nintendo's mostly made basic, simplistic games that don't advance gaming at all. Gaming is an art, but Nintendo treats gaming like a toy. That's the general mentality at Nintendo where they treat gaming as just another toy rather than art with potential to excel in new paradigms and aesthetics. The mentality is heavily reflected in their games. Mario Kart 8, LoZ:WW, two major Nintendo 'blockbusters' prove my point. They simply don't compare with modern Western games that have actually evolved with time. I'm going to use a generic example, Halo, you can see major improvements and changes between Halo 1 and 4 in storytelling, graphics, gameplay and UI. Have you seen similar improvements and changes over a reasonable period of time in Nintendo games? I haven't and I can't see them being capable of it without a major mentality shift. Mario Kart 8 has barely evolved from its N64 predecessor. It is that horrendous.

You PLAY and INTERACT with games. How hard is it to miss this freaking concept? Why does it matter that they treat gaming like a toy? Different philosophies work with different companies. You actually want them to give up who they are and become like everyone else? That's like turning the fairies into pixies.

#48 Posted by freedomfreak (40646 posts) -

I seem to have grown bored of certain Nintendo titles. Hell, I don't think I'll be picking up the next Smash.

Doesn't stop the games from being good though.

#49 Posted by Blabadon (26356 posts) -

@Kjranu: Link Between Worlds doesn't compare with western games?

What won GOTY on a western gaming site last year?

#50 Edited by Wiiboxstation (264 posts) -

@FlamesOfGrey:

These games might have been going for 30 years, in the case of Mario and Zelda and such. That is a fact. Another fact is they are still excellent games that score anywhere from 8-10/10. I'll keep playing Mario and Zelda because they are better than 90% of games.