Divinity Original Sin 9

#151 Posted by charizard1605 (58078 posts) -

@Ballroompirate said:

@blue_hazy_basic said:

@Ballroompirate said:

@blue_hazy_basic said:

Great score for a great game. Haven't played that much yet but so impressed.

Wish Bioware could take a leaf out of its book for roleplaying a party ......

I have to highly disagree on that, while the 2 playable characters are pretty amazing every other person you get in your party is just, to put it simple boring and I didn't care for any of them.

Everything else though I have to say Larian Studios did a pretty damn good job.

was trolling a certain person in this thread :P

Come on try harder, @charizard1605 trolls harder than you.

To be fair, I troll harder and better than everybody on this board.

#152 Edited by Ballroompirate (23016 posts) -

@charizard1605: You got to top my troll skills first :P

#153 Posted by charizard1605 (58078 posts) -

@Ballroompirate said:

@charizard1605: You got to top my troll skills first :P

Pfft, get on my level, bro.

#154 Posted by Ballroompirate (23016 posts) -

@charizard1605 said:

@Ballroompirate said:

@charizard1605: You got to top my troll skills first :P

Pfft, get on my level, bro.

If I was on your lvl, I would be at a lower lvl than I currently am at :P

#155 Posted by Shielder7 (5152 posts) -

@blue_hazy_basic said:

Great score for a great game. Haven't played that much yet but so impressed.

Wish Bioware could take a leaf out of its book for roleplaying a party ......

"Bi" owear rolled that leaf up and smoked it a long time ago.........

#156 Posted by texasgoldrush (9247 posts) -

@Ballroompirate said:

@blue_hazy_basic said:

Great score for a great game. Haven't played that much yet but so impressed.

Wish Bioware could take a leaf out of its book for roleplaying a party ......

I have to highly disagree on that, while the 2 playable characters are pretty amazing every other person you get in your party is just, to put it simple boring and I didn't care for any of them.

Everything else though I have to say Larian Studios did a pretty damn good job.

The story, writing, and the obtuseness of the game holds this game back.

Divinity is a good game on the verge to being a great one, just not a classic. Its a definite buy however on a price drop or a sale.

#157 Posted by BldgIrsh (2683 posts) -
@texasgoldrush said:

@Ballroompirate said:

@blue_hazy_basic said:

Great score for a great game. Haven't played that much yet but so impressed.

Wish Bioware could take a leaf out of its book for roleplaying a party ......

I have to highly disagree on that, while the 2 playable characters are pretty amazing every other person you get in your party is just, to put it simple boring and I didn't care for any of them.

Everything else though I have to say Larian Studios did a pretty damn good job.

The story, writing, and the obtuseness of the game holds this game back.

Divinity is a good game on the verge to being a great one, just not a classic. Its a definite buy however on a price drop or a sale.

It's 40$...

#158 Posted by texasgoldrush (9247 posts) -

@bldgirsh said:
@texasgoldrush said:

@Ballroompirate said:

@blue_hazy_basic said:

Great score for a great game. Haven't played that much yet but so impressed.

Wish Bioware could take a leaf out of its book for roleplaying a party ......

I have to highly disagree on that, while the 2 playable characters are pretty amazing every other person you get in your party is just, to put it simple boring and I didn't care for any of them.

Everything else though I have to say Larian Studios did a pretty damn good job.

The story, writing, and the obtuseness of the game holds this game back.

Divinity is a good game on the verge to being a great one, just not a classic. Its a definite buy however on a price drop or a sale.

It's 40$...

Still a lot, even for its price point....the game is great in its role playing mechanics and combat system, but not its narrative, $40 is still much....but at $20, its a steal...its Steam after all.

#159 Posted by Vaasman (11454 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:

@bldgirsh said:
@texasgoldrush said:

@Ballroompirate said:

@blue_hazy_basic said:

Great score for a great game. Haven't played that much yet but so impressed.

Wish Bioware could take a leaf out of its book for roleplaying a party ......

I have to highly disagree on that, while the 2 playable characters are pretty amazing every other person you get in your party is just, to put it simple boring and I didn't care for any of them.

Everything else though I have to say Larian Studios did a pretty damn good job.

The story, writing, and the obtuseness of the game holds this game back.

Divinity is a good game on the verge to being a great one, just not a classic. Its a definite buy however on a price drop or a sale.

It's 40$...

Still a lot, even for its price point....the game is great in its role playing mechanics and combat system, but not its narrative, $40 is still much....but at $20, its a steal...its Steam after all.

40 is not a lot at all. The game has something like 60 hours of very solid content. Whether you like the narrative or not, it's already a steal by any measure.

#160 Edited by uninspiredcup (8893 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

@texasgoldrush said:

@uninspiredcup said:

@texasgoldrush said:

@uninspiredcup said:

@chronoschris said:

@cfisher2833 said:

@chronoschris said:

I'm trying to like this game but it's just way too old school for my liking. There is zero hand holding and way too much reading involved to actually know what the hell you're doing. I like the combat, puzzles, graphics, soundtrack and all that. But I at least need some kind of waypoint system to tell me where the hell I'm going or I will just run out of patience.

My god! They actually expect you to use your brain while playing--the horror! And no, you don't need a waypoint to tell you where to go constantly (one of the worst elements of modern RPGs). What you need to do is actually bother to read the dialogue and think logically.

Sorry, don't play games to read through endless amounts of text.

You play them to watch endless amounts of cutscenes?

if they have role playing in them

But Metal Gear Solids bad animoo. Role play as person watching bad animoo?

but that's not role playing.

I mean role playable cutscenes such as Mass Effect, Deus Ex HR, and even Alpha protocol, where you have a limited time to pick responses

I'd rather have a good story made by people can actually write a good story than those canned "ME style" circle response wheels in games.

My friend, I very much agree. However, another issue not brought up.

Reading text causes you, the reader to engage and to use your imagination. While in Mass Effect, you have characters who emote terrible. Rather than believable beings, everyone sounds like data, without his emotion chip, attempting to understand emotion.

It's sad when this character with rudimentary facial design "dog" can emote better than anything in Mass Effect.

Saying that though, Halflife is a masterpiece for winners and to date, Mass Effect is not.

#161 Edited by Maroxad (8321 posts) -
@Shielder7 said:

As for Divinity: Original Sin It's an old school game with old school system requirements Proof you don't need a gaming PC to play the best PC games.

Yes, this game is so well optimized even @charizard1605's mac could run it.

@uninspiredcup said:

Reading text causes you, the reader to engage and to use your imagination. While in Mass Effect, you have characters who emote terrible. Rather than believable beings, everyone sounds like data, without his emotion chip, attempting to understand emotion.

I agree with this and what Clyde said, I find myself far more immersed in this game, than I have in any fully voiced, dialogue wheel using RPG I have played from the likes of Bileware/Bieberware/BuyerBeware. Only problem is, I did disable the voice overs, but some NPCs still do their voice overs and it sounds really, really creepy. Like listening to someone while drowning.

Edit: good luck getting this many dialogue options in a game using the dialogue wheel.

#162 Posted by texasgoldrush (9247 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

@clyde46 said:

@texasgoldrush said:

@uninspiredcup said:

@texasgoldrush said:

@uninspiredcup said:

@chronoschris said:

@cfisher2833 said:

@chronoschris said:

I'm trying to like this game but it's just way too old school for my liking. There is zero hand holding and way too much reading involved to actually know what the hell you're doing. I like the combat, puzzles, graphics, soundtrack and all that. But I at least need some kind of waypoint system to tell me where the hell I'm going or I will just run out of patience.

My god! They actually expect you to use your brain while playing--the horror! And no, you don't need a waypoint to tell you where to go constantly (one of the worst elements of modern RPGs). What you need to do is actually bother to read the dialogue and think logically.

Sorry, don't play games to read through endless amounts of text.

You play them to watch endless amounts of cutscenes?

if they have role playing in them

But Metal Gear Solids bad animoo. Role play as person watching bad animoo?

but that's not role playing.

I mean role playable cutscenes such as Mass Effect, Deus Ex HR, and even Alpha protocol, where you have a limited time to pick responses

I'd rather have a good story made by people can actually write a good story than those canned "ME style" circle response wheels in games.

My friend, I very much agree. However, another issue not brought up.

Reading text causes you, the reader to engage and to use your imagination. While in Mass Effect, you have characters who emote terrible. Rather than believable beings, everyone sounds like data, without his emotion chip, attempting to understand emotion.

It's sad when this character with rudimentary facial design "dog" can emote better than anything in Mass Effect.

Saying that though, Halflife is a masterpiece for winners and to date, Mass Effect is not.

Then you only played the first one, because Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 vastly improve in this area.

And text based dialogue cannot capture human movements as well as cutscenes do or a well voiced voice actor.

#163 Edited by texasgoldrush (9247 posts) -

@Maroxad said:
@Shielder7 said:

As for Divinity: Original Sin It's an old school game with old school system requirements Proof you don't need a gaming PC to play the best PC games.

Yes, this game is so well optimized even @charizard1605's mac could run it.

@uninspiredcup said:

Reading text causes you, the reader to engage and to use your imagination. While in Mass Effect, you have characters who emote terrible. Rather than believable beings, everyone sounds like data, without his emotion chip, attempting to understand emotion.

I agree with this and what Clyde said, I find myself far more immersed in this game, than I have in any fully voiced, dialogue wheel using RPG I have played from the likes of Bileware/Bieberware/BuyerBeware. Only problem is, I did disable the voice overs, but some NPCs still do their voice overs and it sounds really, really creepy. Like listening to someone while drowning.

Edit: good luck getting this many dialogue options in a game using the dialogue wheel.

Bioware already can do it...one option on the wheel can lead to a second wheel of options, usually the "investigate" option. So excluding "Investigate" and the "Return" options, you can fit 10 dialogue options on the wheel. Nevermind in later Bioware games, it isn't written like an interrogation.

#164 Edited by uninspiredcup (8893 posts) -

My friend, I got to the bit when you free the angry bald girl power lady and thought "this is not very good and a casual console game" and went and played the Quake 3 instead. Waste of time.

Divinity: Original Sin also has trapped lady. Much better done. Better character as well. "rar I'm mad and tuff but also damaged and slightly vulnerable, girl power! rabble rabble perhaps you can tame me? " Fuckoff Bioware.

#165 Posted by texasgoldrush (9247 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

My friend, I got to the bit when you free the angry bald girl power lady and thought "this is not very good and a casual console game" and went and played the Quake 3 instead. Waste of time.

Divinity: Original Sin also has trapped lady. Much better done. Better character as well. "rar I'm mad and tuff but also damaged and slightly vulnerable, girl power! rabble rabble perhaps you can tame me? " Fuckoff Bioware.

and yet because you didn't play it through you don't know that she is actually a pretty complex character, who develops through two games.

#166 Edited by uninspiredcup (8893 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:

@uninspiredcup said:

My friend, I got to the bit when you free the angry bald girl power lady and thought "this is not very good and a casual console game" and went and played the Quake 3 instead. Waste of time.

Divinity: Original Sin also has trapped lady. Much better done. Better character as well. "rar I'm mad and tuff but also damaged and slightly vulnerable, girl power! rabble rabble perhaps you can tame me? " Fuckoff Bioware.

and yet because you didn't play it through you don't know that she is actually a pretty complex character, who develops through two games.

A point redlettermedia made (a very good point) about the difference between District 9 and Avatar.

In Avatar, we have beautiful creatures in a lovely flower land living happily. With large baby eyes. The humans working for an evil corporation with cliche texan hicks shouting "yee haw and casually sipping coffee as they obliterate the happy peoples Holmes. With our hero, a hard chinned action man, falling in love with the cat people living in magical happy land.

In District 9, the creatures are horrible looking insect people living in a shithole and sniping each other. The hero is largely a halfwit pussy who is primarily interested with saving his own skin. Towards the end of the movie, when he performs a courageous act, it works specifically because of his traits. Rather than a generic hero action man who looks like he is from a gap catalog, we have a distinctly average person.

What has this got to do with mass effect I hear you ask?

#167 Posted by texasgoldrush (9247 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

@texasgoldrush said:

@uninspiredcup said:

My friend, I got to the bit when you free the angry bald girl power lady and thought "this is not very good and a casual console game" and went and played the Quake 3 instead. Waste of time.

Divinity: Original Sin also has trapped lady. Much better done. Better character as well. "rar I'm mad and tuff but also damaged and slightly vulnerable, girl power! rabble rabble perhaps you can tame me? " Fuckoff Bioware.

and yet because you didn't play it through you don't know that she is actually a pretty complex character, who develops through two games.

A point redlettermedia made (a very good point) about the difference between District 9 and Avatar.

In Avatar, we have beautiful creatures in a lovely flower land living happily. With large baby eyes. The humans working for an evil corporation with cliche texan hicks shouting "yee haw and casually sipping coffee as they obliterate the happy peoples Holmes. With our hero, a hard chinned action man, falling in love with the cat people living in magical happy land.

In District 9, the creatures are horrible looking insect people living in a shithole and sniping each other. The hero is largely a halfwit pussy who is primarily interested with saving his own skin. Towards the end of the movie, when he performs a courageous act, it works specifically because of his traits. Rather than a generic hero action man who looks like he is from a gap catalog, we have a distinctly average person.

What has this got to do with mass effect I hear you ask?

I already would answer....nothing.

#168 Edited by uninspiredcup (8893 posts) -

Exactly. Rather than being obvious like Bioware, the point was open ended requiring you, the reader to think.

Mass Effect has commonly been refereed as "the avatar of video games" by corrupt casual media who have never actually played an RPG before. Indeed it is.

#169 Posted by SYSTEM-REBOOT (646 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

Mass Effect has commonly been refereed as "the avatar of video games" by corrupt casual media who have never actually played an RPG before. Indeed it is.

Like its a good thing? not

further more mass effect no matter mediocre RPG is also terrible as a shooter.

#170 Posted by uninspiredcup (8893 posts) -

@system-reboot said:

@uninspiredcup said:

Mass Effect has commonly been refereed as "the avatar of video games" by corrupt casual media who have never actually played an RPG before. Indeed it is.

Like its a good thing? not

further more mass effect no matter mediocre RPG is also terrible as a shooter.

This is an incredibly excellent point, really good.

#171 Posted by SambaLele (5424 posts) -

Wow. I'm getting this game.

#172 Edited by Maroxad (8321 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:

Then you only played the first one, because Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 vastly improve in this area.

And text based dialogue cannot capture human movements as well as cutscenes do or a well voiced voice actor.

And yet, the most immersive medium is literature. Despite the lack of voice overs and any communication outside of written text.

@texasgoldrush said:

Bioware already can do it...one option on the wheel can lead to a second wheel of options, usually the "investigate" option. So excluding "Investigate" and the "Return" options, you can fit 10 dialogue options on the wheel. Nevermind in later Bioware games, it isn't written like an interrogation.

So yes, hide half the dialogue options having to go through an alternate menu to access them. Such a wonderful interface.

Not to mention all the other problems with the dialogue wheel, such as the paraphrasing which was hilariously inaccurate in Mass Effect 1. Payers are left guessing what their characters will say which is TERRIBLE design in RPGs. It downright kills immersion. In divninity's dialogue system, players know what their characters will say which leads to better roleplaying and immersion.

I could also bring up other fundamental problems with BioWare's dialogue system such as that no matter what you say, you have no influence on how the conversation goes, sometimes multiple dialogue options even lead to the same response >.> Not to mention they also pretty much encourage you to click every dialogue option, unlike Divinity where some questions are better off left unasked.

#173 Posted by texasgoldrush (9247 posts) -

@Maroxad said:

@texasgoldrush said:

Then you only played the first one, because Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 vastly improve in this area.

And text based dialogue cannot capture human movements as well as cutscenes do or a well voiced voice actor.

And yet, the most immersive medium is literature. Despite the lack of voice overs and any communication outside of written text.

@texasgoldrush said:

Bioware already can do it...one option on the wheel can lead to a second wheel of options, usually the "investigate" option. So excluding "Investigate" and the "Return" options, you can fit 10 dialogue options on the wheel. Nevermind in later Bioware games, it isn't written like an interrogation.

So yes, hide half the dialogue options having to go through an alternate menu to access them. Such a wonderful interface.

Not to mention all the other problems with the dialogue wheel, such as the paraphrasing which was hilariously inaccurate in Mass Effect 1. Payers are left guessing what their characters will say which is TERRIBLE design in RPGs. It downright kills immersion. In divninity's dialogue system, players know what their characters will say which leads to better roleplaying and immersion.

I could also bring up other fundamental problems with BioWare's dialogue system such as that no matter what you say, you have no influence on how the conversation goes, sometimes multiple dialogue options even lead to the same response >.> Not to mention they also pretty much encourage you to click every dialogue option, unlike Divinity where some questions are better off left unasked.

No, it sorts them out, which is great.

However, Bioware can write more natural dialogue with the dialogue wheel, instead of more wooden dialogue you see in many RPGs that don't use the dialogue wheel or something similar (The Witcher 2). So basically that Divinity dialogue sounds like an interrogation, not a natural conversation, and turns the character in town into a talking codex entry instead of a real character. This is the problem with WRPGs most of the time, the character interaction is wooden. Bioware seeks to change this. And the paraphrasing has gotten far more accurate in the later games, and DAI will let you see more of what the character will say (more like Deus Ex HR).

"sometimes multiple dialogue options even lead to the same response"

Not so in Dragon Age II or ME3.

#174 Edited by uninspiredcup (8893 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:


However, Bioware can write more natural dialogue with the dialogue wheel, instead of more wooden dialogue you see in many RPGs

#175 Posted by RoboCopISJesus (1408 posts) -

Texasgoldrush is not making sense anymore.

#176 Posted by Maroxad (8321 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:

No, it sorts them out, which is great.

However, Bioware can write more natural dialogue with the dialogue wheel, instead of more wooden dialogue you see in many RPGs that don't use the dialogue wheel or something similar (The Witcher 2). So basically that Divinity dialogue sounds like an interrogation, not a natural conversation, and turns the character in town into a talking codex entry instead of a real character. This is the problem with WRPGs most of the time, the character interaction is wooden. Bioware seeks to change this. And the paraphrasing has gotten far more accurate in the later games, and DAI will let you see more of what the character will say (more like Deus Ex HR).

The dialogue wheel has no impact on the quality of the writing. The presentation may be more cinematic, but the quality of the writing has stayed the same if not WORSENED (thanks to the fact that the dialogue wheel needs voice overs, which causes problems for the writers). When I think of the most well written RPGs of all time, none of them use a dialogue wheel.

@texasgoldrush said:

"sometimes multiple dialogue options even lead to the same response"

Not so in Dragon Age II or ME3.

Didn't play those 2, at that point I had completely given up on BioWare. However, knowing bioware I wouldnt be surprised if it only lead to some slightly different flavor text.

I am not saying that Divinity: Original Sin's writing is great, it isn't. But at the same time it is not cringe worthy either, which is more than I can say for the writing of a certain other game studio ;)

#177 Edited by Kinthalis (5322 posts) -

Tip for those starting out. Make sure to tackle as many quests in the first town as possible. When you DO venture out, head west by the abandoned house (not the beach) first.

#178 Posted by CrownKingArthur (4894 posts) -

@Kinthalis: i'll bear that in mind. thank you mr Kinthalis.

#179 Posted by naz99 (1383 posts) -

@Kinthalis said:

Tip for those starting out. Make sure to tackle as many quests in the first town as possible. When you DO venture out, head west by the abandoned house (not the beach) first.

Yes i made the mistake of going to the beach first...hit a hidden trap and killed all 4 in my party......I then went west and its a bit easier to manage.

#180 Posted by AdamPA1006 (6420 posts) -

I love this game. TLHBO

#181 Posted by clone01 (24829 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

@system-reboot said:

@uninspiredcup said:

Mass Effect has commonly been refereed as "the avatar of video games" by corrupt casual media who have never actually played an RPG before. Indeed it is.

Like its a good thing? not

further more mass effect no matter mediocre RPG is also terrible as a shooter.

This is an incredibly excellent point, really good.

Why are you replying to your own posts?

#182 Posted by cfisher2833 (1709 posts) -

@Maroxad said:

@texasgoldrush said:

Then you only played the first one, because Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 vastly improve in this area.

And text based dialogue cannot capture human movements as well as cutscenes do or a well voiced voice actor.

And yet, the most immersive medium is literature. Despite the lack of voice overs and any communication outside of written text.

@texasgoldrush said:

Bioware already can do it...one option on the wheel can lead to a second wheel of options, usually the "investigate" option. So excluding "Investigate" and the "Return" options, you can fit 10 dialogue options on the wheel. Nevermind in later Bioware games, it isn't written like an interrogation.

So yes, hide half the dialogue options having to go through an alternate menu to access them. Such a wonderful interface.

Not to mention all the other problems with the dialogue wheel, such as the paraphrasing which was hilariously inaccurate in Mass Effect 1. Payers are left guessing what their characters will say which is TERRIBLE design in RPGs. It downright kills immersion. In divninity's dialogue system, players know what their characters will say which leads to better roleplaying and immersion.

I could also bring up other fundamental problems with BioWare's dialogue system such as that no matter what you say, you have no influence on how the conversation goes, sometimes multiple dialogue options even lead to the same response >.> Not to mention they also pretty much encourage you to click every dialogue option, unlike Divinity where some questions are better off left unasked.

I think a really good quest to contrast this to in Divinity is the quest you get from the wife of a miner who died from Tenebrium poisoning in the Silverglen Mines. Once you get the evidence necessary to turn in the quest to her, I'd recommend saving so that you can see all the various endings that particular quest can have based on your dialogue choices. It's pretty crazy.

#183 Edited by Maroxad (8321 posts) -

@cfisher2833 said:

@Maroxad said:

@texasgoldrush said:

Then you only played the first one, because Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 vastly improve in this area.

And text based dialogue cannot capture human movements as well as cutscenes do or a well voiced voice actor.

And yet, the most immersive medium is literature. Despite the lack of voice overs and any communication outside of written text.

@texasgoldrush said:

Bioware already can do it...one option on the wheel can lead to a second wheel of options, usually the "investigate" option. So excluding "Investigate" and the "Return" options, you can fit 10 dialogue options on the wheel. Nevermind in later Bioware games, it isn't written like an interrogation.

So yes, hide half the dialogue options having to go through an alternate menu to access them. Such a wonderful interface.

Not to mention all the other problems with the dialogue wheel, such as the paraphrasing which was hilariously inaccurate in Mass Effect 1. Payers are left guessing what their characters will say which is TERRIBLE design in RPGs. It downright kills immersion. In divninity's dialogue system, players know what their characters will say which leads to better roleplaying and immersion.

I could also bring up other fundamental problems with BioWare's dialogue system such as that no matter what you say, you have no influence on how the conversation goes, sometimes multiple dialogue options even lead to the same response >.> Not to mention they also pretty much encourage you to click every dialogue option, unlike Divinity where some questions are better off left unasked.

I think a really good quest to contrast this to in Divinity is the quest you get from the wife of a miner who died from Tenebrium poisoning in the Silverglen Mines. Once you get the evidence necessary to turn in the quest to her, I'd recommend saving so that you can see all the various endings that particular quest can have based on your dialogue choices. It's pretty crazy.

Some quests may also impact other quests. This combined with multiple endings, and multiple solutions for some makes the deal even sweeter.

#184 Posted by Shielder7 (5152 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:


However, Bioware can write more natural dialogue with the dialogue wheel, instead of more wooden dialogue you see in many RPGs that don't use the dialogue wheel or something similar (The Witcher 2). So basically that Divinity dialogue sounds like an interrogation, not a natural conversation, and turns the character in town into a talking codex entry instead of a real character. This is the problem with WRPGs most of the time, the character interaction is wooden. Bioware seeks to change this. And the paraphrasing has gotten far more accurate in the later games, and DAI will let you see more of what the character will say (more like Deus Ex HR).

"sometimes multiple dialogue options even lead to the same response"

Not so in Dragon Age II or ME3.

Are you kidding me?

"Bi"owear lost it's ability to write a long time ago and with David Gaider at the helm that's not changing anytime soon, in fact it seems to be sinking faster than the Titanic and I full expect David Gaider to try and hit every iceberg on the way down.

the dialogue wheel give you the choice of the pointing out the painfully obvious response, the idiot response and the bigger idiot response that usually end up with the same outcome regardless. I'd hardly call that natural.

#185 Posted by texasgoldrush (9247 posts) -

@Maroxad said:

@texasgoldrush said:

No, it sorts them out, which is great.

However, Bioware can write more natural dialogue with the dialogue wheel, instead of more wooden dialogue you see in many RPGs that don't use the dialogue wheel or something similar (The Witcher 2). So basically that Divinity dialogue sounds like an interrogation, not a natural conversation, and turns the character in town into a talking codex entry instead of a real character. This is the problem with WRPGs most of the time, the character interaction is wooden. Bioware seeks to change this. And the paraphrasing has gotten far more accurate in the later games, and DAI will let you see more of what the character will say (more like Deus Ex HR).

The dialogue wheel has no impact on the quality of the writing. The presentation may be more cinematic, but the quality of the writing has stayed the same if not WORSENED (thanks to the fact that the dialogue wheel needs voice overs, which causes problems for the writers). When I think of the most well written RPGs of all time, none of them use a dialogue wheel.

@texasgoldrush said:

"sometimes multiple dialogue options even lead to the same response"

Not so in Dragon Age II or ME3.

Didn't play those 2, at that point I had completely given up on BioWare. However, knowing bioware I wouldnt be surprised if it only lead to some slightly different flavor text.

I am not saying that Divinity: Original Sin's writing is great, it isn't. But at the same time it is not cringe worthy either, which is more than I can say for the writing of a certain other game studio ;)

I can only think of two...Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate II, as the most well written. You are overstating your case. And several Bioware games are worse without the wheel and a voice acted protagonist. Jade Empire is an example. There are trade offs regarding old school dialogue, it simply makes the player character less of a real character in the story.

And Mass Effect 3 improves on the different responses to different dialogue options, and its a vast improvement over the first two games if you get past the fact that Shepard has some autodialogue, in where he or she is more of a character than a player avatar. So while there is less dialogue options, the dialogue options that ME3 provides are far more potent. One dialogue option can mean three lines of dialogue or even an entire exchange, with interrupts even added. A dialogue option can reveal new insights on characters that the other dialogue option does not provide. And really, you have to take dialogue options a lot more seriously. What you may think is color dialogue, options that do not mean much, could get a character killed later. While ME1 and ME2 do have a lot of dialogue options that have little variation in their response, this is not the case in ME3. However, ME3 has more autodialogue from Shepard...its more like The Witcher 2 and less like KOTOR, so its less dialogue options but far more powerful ones.

Does the dialogue wheels have flaws? Yes, but Bioware is still tinkering with them. They are still trying to improve on this type of dialogue delivery and other studios have played with it as well, like Obsidian's Alpha Protocol, where its dialogue options are basically only professional, suave, aggressive, and special action.

#186 Posted by illmatic87 (15282 posts) -

All that a RPG threads these days amounts to:

"RAGHRRRRR GRRR! I HAVE TO PROVE SOMEONE WRONG ABOUT IRRELEVANT RPG THINGZ & NUANCES THAT NORMAL PEOPLE DONT CARE ABOUT ON THE INTERNETS! TIME TO WASTE MY SPARE TIME WRITING PARAGRAPHS TO CONVINCE MYSELF THAT WHAT I SAY IS RIGHT AND ACTUALLY MATTERS!111!"

#187 Edited by Maroxad (8321 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:

I can only think of two...Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate II, as the most well written. You are overstating your case. And several Bioware games are worse without the wheel and a voice acted protagonist. Jade Empire is an example. There are trade offs regarding old school dialogue, it simply makes the player character less of a real character in the story.

And Mass Effect 3 improves on the different responses to different dialogue options, and its a vast improvement over the first two games if you get past the fact that Shepard has some autodialogue, in where he or she is more of a character than a player avatar. So while there is less dialogue options, the dialogue options that ME3 provides are far more potent. One dialogue option can mean three lines of dialogue or even an entire exchange, with interrupts even added. A dialogue option can reveal new insights on characters that the other dialogue option does not provide. And really, you have to take dialogue options a lot more seriously. What you may think is color dialogue, options that do not mean much, could get a character killed later. While ME1 and ME2 do have a lot of dialogue options that have little variation in their response, this is not the case in ME3. However, ME3 has more autodialogue from Shepard...its more like The Witcher 2 and less like KOTOR, so its less dialogue options but far more powerful ones.

Does the dialogue wheels have flaws? Yes, but Bioware is still tinkering with them. They are still trying to improve on this type of dialogue delivery and other studios have played with it as well, like Obsidian's Alpha Protocol, where its dialogue options are basically only professional, suave, aggressive, and special action.

Let's see here: PlaneScape: Torment, Kotor 2, VotM: Bloodlines, BG2, Deus Ex, Fallout, Fallout 2, New Vegas, Mask of the Betrayer. Meanwhile Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and SWTOR dialogues were all cringe-worthy and what dialogue options I did see of Dragon Age 2 reminded me of those CDI Zeldas for some reason and even the worst dialogue I have seen in Divinity: Original Sin still beats anything I have seen in DA2. Mass Effect 3 got bashed for its writing almost universally by gamers, and it is not just the ending either. Obsidian's alpha protocol is the only Dialogue wheel game whose writing and dialogue did not get on my nerves.

In other words, now your own character talks for you in Mass Effect 3. There is nothing I hate more in RPGs and nothing that kills immersion for me when characters I created speak for me. Not only does this frequently contradict the personality I have given them (and thus the immersion going down the drain), but because they still want it to be your character so to speak, the characters using dialogue wheels are always incredibly bland so it has the strengths of neither the preset character with autodialogue or the proper avatar and thet weaknesses of both. In Guild Wars 2 my utter distaste for this went so far I even refused to do the personal story.

@illmatic87 said:

All that a RPG threads these days amounts to:

"RAGHRRRRR GRRR! I HAVE TO PROVE SOMEONE WRONG ABOUT IRRELEVANT RPG THINGZ & NUANCES THAT NORMAL PEOPLE DONT CARE ABOUT ON THE INTERNETS! TIME TO WASTE MY SPARE TIME WRITING PARAGRAPHS TO CONVINCE MYSELF THAT WHAT I SAY IS RIGHT AND ACTUALLY MATTERS!111!"

We discuss it because it is fun. And because these things actually DO matter, some of us like pro-consumer, intelligent investment from devs, depth and challenge you know. 4 things I know you oppose.

And while I am at it, “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.” Your posts around here tend to fall into the third category. Do you have a small mind?

#188 Posted by texasgoldrush (9247 posts) -

@Maroxad said:

@texasgoldrush said:

I can only think of two...Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate II, as the most well written. You are overstating your case. And several Bioware games are worse without the wheel and a voice acted protagonist. Jade Empire is an example. There are trade offs regarding old school dialogue, it simply makes the player character less of a real character in the story.

And Mass Effect 3 improves on the different responses to different dialogue options, and its a vast improvement over the first two games if you get past the fact that Shepard has some autodialogue, in where he or she is more of a character than a player avatar. So while there is less dialogue options, the dialogue options that ME3 provides are far more potent. One dialogue option can mean three lines of dialogue or even an entire exchange, with interrupts even added. A dialogue option can reveal new insights on characters that the other dialogue option does not provide. And really, you have to take dialogue options a lot more seriously. What you may think is color dialogue, options that do not mean much, could get a character killed later. While ME1 and ME2 do have a lot of dialogue options that have little variation in their response, this is not the case in ME3. However, ME3 has more autodialogue from Shepard...its more like The Witcher 2 and less like KOTOR, so its less dialogue options but far more powerful ones.

Does the dialogue wheels have flaws? Yes, but Bioware is still tinkering with them. They are still trying to improve on this type of dialogue delivery and other studios have played with it as well, like Obsidian's Alpha Protocol, where its dialogue options are basically only professional, suave, aggressive, and special action.

Let's see here: PlaneScape: Torment, Kotor 2, VotM: Bloodlines, BG2, Deus Ex, Fallout, Fallout 2, New Vegas, Mask of the Betrayer. Meanwhile Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and SWTOR dialogues were all cringe-worthy and what dialogue options I did see of Dragon Age 2 reminded me of those CDI Zeldas for some reason and even the worst dialogue I have seen in Divinity: Original Sin still beats anything I have seen in DA2. Mass Effect 3 got bashed for its writing almost universally by gamers, and it is not just the ending either. Obsidian's alpha protocol is the only Dialogue wheel game whose writing and dialogue did not get on my nerves.

In other words, now your own character talks for you in Mass Effect 3. There is nothing I hate more in RPGs and nothing that kills immersion for me when characters I created speak for me. Not only does this frequently contradict the personality I have given them (and thus the immersion going down the drain), but because they still want it to be your character so to speak, the characters using dialogue wheels are always incredibly bland so it has the strengths of neither the preset character with autodialogue or the proper avatar and thet weaknesses of both. In Guild Wars 2 my utter distaste for this went so far I even refused to do the personal story.

@illmatic87 said:

All that a RPG threads these days amounts to:

"RAGHRRRRR GRRR! I HAVE TO PROVE SOMEONE WRONG ABOUT IRRELEVANT RPG THINGZ & NUANCES THAT NORMAL PEOPLE DONT CARE ABOUT ON THE INTERNETS! TIME TO WASTE MY SPARE TIME WRITING PARAGRAPHS TO CONVINCE MYSELF THAT WHAT I SAY IS RIGHT AND ACTUALLY MATTERS!111!"

We discuss it because it is fun. And because these things actually DO matter, some of us like pro-consumer, intelligent investment from devs, depth and challenge you know. 4 things I know you oppose.

And while I am at it, “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.” Your posts around here tend to fall into the third category. Do you have a small mind?

And yet, you are making claims, untruthful facts, and now I cannot take you seriously. The very "fact" that Mass Effect 3's writing is universally bashed by gamers is false. Not only that, the Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs, which are 2/3's of the game, are well regarded by gamers, as are the characters. Nevermind the 93 on Metacritic with praise to the story. Hell, you cannot even say the extended cut ending is universally bashed by gamers.

And you think Deus Ex's dialogue isn't cringeworthy? WOW

#189 Posted by Maroxad (8321 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:

And yet, you are making claims, untruthful facts, and now I cannot take you seriously. The very "fact" that Mass Effect 3's writing is universally bashed by gamers is false. Not only that, the Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs, which are 2/3's of the game, are well regarded by gamers, as are the characters. Nevermind the 93 on Metacritic with praise to the story. Hell, you cannot even say the extended cut ending is universally bashed by gamers.

And you think Deus Ex's dialogue isn't cringeworthy? WOW

Metascores have nothing to do with how well recieved they are by the playerbase. Do I need to remind you of Gone Home, a game that got excellent scores from reviewers, yet was one of the most hated games of last year, if not the most hated.

BioWare social network is not a good representation of how well recieved BioWare's writing is. Between anyone I know irl, and the various gaming communities I visit (several of which happen to be the biggest gaming forums out there), Mass Effect 3 was trashed for its writing with only a few actually defending it. As for the extended ending is not universally bashed, and while it did not entirely satisfy people, it is still agreed to be better than the mess that was the original ending. Still doesnt change the fact that ME3's ending has been an object of ridicule, both before and after the extended ending.

Deus Ex's dialogue isnt great, but it certainly beats this,

Anyway, this is going off topic. Divinity: Original Sin's writing may not be great, but it certainly doesnt feel like it was written by 12 year olds nor does it implement the worst dialogue system I have seen thus far.

#190 Posted by texasgoldrush (9247 posts) -

@Maroxad said:

@texasgoldrush said:

And yet, you are making claims, untruthful facts, and now I cannot take you seriously. The very "fact" that Mass Effect 3's writing is universally bashed by gamers is false. Not only that, the Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs, which are 2/3's of the game, are well regarded by gamers, as are the characters. Nevermind the 93 on Metacritic with praise to the story. Hell, you cannot even say the extended cut ending is universally bashed by gamers.

And you think Deus Ex's dialogue isn't cringeworthy? WOW

Metascores have nothing to do with how well recieved they are by the playerbase. Do I need to remind you of Gone Home, a game that got excellent scores from reviewers, yet was one of the most hated games of last year, if not the most hated.

BioWare social network is not a good representation of how well recieved BioWare's writing is. Between anyone I know irl, and the various gaming communities I visit (several of which happen to be the biggest gaming forums out there), Mass Effect 3 was trashed for its writing with only a few actually defending it. As for the extended ending is not universally bashed, and while it did not entirely satisfy people, it is still agreed to be better than the mess that was the original ending. Still doesnt change the fact that ME3's ending has been an object of ridicule, both before and after the extended ending.

Deus Ex's dialogue isnt great, but it certainly beats this,

Anyway, this is going off topic. Divinity: Original Sin's writing may not be great, but it certainly doesnt feel like it was written by 12 year olds nor does it implement the worst dialogue system I have seen thus far.

Because Gone Home was bashed by homophobes and because it wasn't a hard core game and so they hate the acclaim critics gave it.

So I am supposed to believe you when you say I cannot use my source (which was only one of them), but you can use yours? How hypocritical of you. And you need to learn what a silent majority is. You cannot judge a game's reception based on forum posts and even user ratings. ME3 being Bioware's best selling game, despite the major controversy, speaks volumes.

And even then, there are many flaws to arguments made against ME3's writing.

#191 Posted by uninspiredcup (8893 posts) -

@illmatic87 said:

All that a RPG threads these days amounts to:

"RAGHRRRRR GRRR! I HAVE TO PROVE SOMEONE WRONG ABOUT IRRELEVANT RPG THINGZ & NUANCES THAT NORMAL PEOPLE DONT CARE ABOUT ON THE INTERNETS! TIME TO WASTE MY SPARE TIME WRITING PARAGRAPHS TO CONVINCE MYSELF THAT WHAT I SAY IS RIGHT AND ACTUALLY MATTERS!111!"

Exactly, Bioware suck.

#192 Posted by SYSTEM-REBOOT (646 posts) -

@illmatic87 said:

All that a RPG threads these days amounts to:

"RAGHRRRRR GRRR! I HAVE TO PROVE SOMEONE WRONG ABOUT IRRELEVANT RPG THINGZ & NUANCES THAT NORMAL PEOPLE DONT CARE ABOUT ON THE INTERNETS! TIME TO WASTE MY SPARE TIME WRITING PARAGRAPHS TO CONVINCE MYSELF THAT WHAT I SAY IS RIGHT AND ACTUALLY MATTERS!111!"

Im not going to play this game because its not my thing but still its most deserving RPG.

#193 Edited by GreySeal9 (24401 posts) -

@Maroxad said:

@texasgoldrush said:

And yet, you are making claims, untruthful facts, and now I cannot take you seriously. The very "fact" that Mass Effect 3's writing is universally bashed by gamers is false. Not only that, the Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs, which are 2/3's of the game, are well regarded by gamers, as are the characters. Nevermind the 93 on Metacritic with praise to the story. Hell, you cannot even say the extended cut ending is universally bashed by gamers.

And you think Deus Ex's dialogue isn't cringeworthy? WOW

Metascores have nothing to do with how well recieved they are by the playerbase. Do I need to remind you of Gone Home, a game that got excellent scores from reviewers, yet was one of the most hated games of last year, if not the most hated.

BioWare social network is not a good representation of how well recieved BioWare's writing is. Between anyone I know irl, and the various gaming communities I visit (several of which happen to be the biggest gaming forums out there), Mass Effect 3 was trashed for its writing with only a few actually defending it. As for the extended ending is not universally bashed, and while it did not entirely satisfy people, it is still agreed to be better than the mess that was the original ending. Still doesnt change the fact that ME3's ending has been an object of ridicule, both before and after the extended ending.

Deus Ex's dialogue isnt great, but it certainly beats this,

Anyway, this is going off topic. Divinity: Original Sin's writing may not be great, but it certainly doesnt feel like it was written by 12 year olds nor does it implement the worst dialogue system I have seen thus far.

Good lord. Dragon Age has some of the worst looking blood I've ever seen.

And yeah, that is some laughable writing, but to be fair, most games have their fair share of bad lines.

#194 Posted by Maroxad (8321 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:

Because Gone Home was bashed by homophobes and because it wasn't a hard core game and so they hate the acclaim critics gave it.

So I am supposed to believe you when you say I cannot use my source (which was only one of them), but you can use yours? How hypocritical of you. And you need to learn what a silent majority is. You cannot judge a game's reception based on forum posts and even user ratings. ME3 being Bioware's best selling game, despite the major controversy, speaks volumes.

And even then, there are many flaws to arguments made against ME3's writing.

You do realize controversy sells, right?

And yes, the majority are silent... HOWEVER, the vocal minority is still a scoop of the whole picture, so it still gives a relatively good idea. The numbers may differentiate somewhat, but still gives a generally good estimate.

#195 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13591 posts) -

YAY ! ! ! Another Stat Driven piece of Trash ! :)

#196 Posted by Vaasman (11454 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: Stats like 9/10 at gamespot you mean?

#197 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13591 posts) -

@Vaasman

You mean the same Gamespot that gave Skyrim a 9 despite the average gameplay ? Don't even get me started on the bugs.

Yep thats the one. There goes gamespot's credibility.

Go ahead, try me with Sales Figures..... :p

#198 Posted by Vaasman (11454 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: Well it is a best seller on steam. Also one of the highest user scores and best word of mouth of any game this year. Or how about an 87 at meta critic also making it one of the best reviewed games this year, and not just here. Must suck not being able to enjoy objectively great releases like this one.

#199 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (13591 posts) -

@Vaasman

If by Objectively good you mean most popular then yeah... Its freaking fantastic, could you imagine how miserable I would be crunching numbers instead of real gameplay.... ?

Anyway.... You know well enough, Ive NEVER EVER used all that nonsense to gauge the quality of a game because Its the furthest thing from objective.

How is the game actually played ? I noticed its simular to Transistor where even your movement is Stat Driven.

#200 Edited by Jeager_Titan (947 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

YAY ! ! ! Another Stat Driven piece of Trash ! :)

Boo another crap opinion from Lulu_Lulu.