DirectX 12 improves performance and Apps coming to Xbox One

#51 Posted by blackace (21410 posts) -

@xhawk27 said:

DX12.0 plus the cloud could see a huge increase in performance for the Xbox One.

It will be enough to run every game at 1080p 30/60 fps when all is said and done. That's all everyone seems to care about even though M$ will have a boatload of exclusives and new IP's to show at the E3.

#52 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (9015 posts) -

We will be the first to experience at technology that will power future generations to come. A truly great time we live in. I am just happy to be a part of it all.

#53 Edited by Opus_Rea-333 (1124 posts) -

it is like going from a Pentium 4 cpu to COre 2 duo

Xbox One gpu is like a core 2 duo while PS4 gpu will always remain single core like Pentium 4 cpu.

Only tech geekies will get what im trying to say .

MirterCteam from Mrxmedia said this since 2013

#54 Posted by PinkieWinkie (1454 posts) -

@Opus_Rea-333: lol. Terrible troll is terrible.

#55 Posted by Couth_ (10329 posts) -

@tdkmillsy said:

XBox One is the biggest beneficiary; it effectively gives every Xbox One owner a new GPU that is twice as fast as the old one.

I wish I could post all the lol gifs :[

#56 Posted by Opus_Rea-333 (1124 posts) -

@PinkieWinkie said:

@Opus_Rea-333: lol. Terrible troll is terrible.

It is already inside Xbox One nothing can change it.

#57 Edited by naz99 (1830 posts) -

Must......Leave......Thread!....................Brain.....cells..............Dying!......*silence*......

#58 Posted by clyde46 (47595 posts) -

@naz99 said:

Must ......Leave......Thread!....................Brain.....cells..............Dying!......*silence*......

I've never seen a thread full of such stupidity.

#59 Posted by Midnightshade29 (5606 posts) -

@Wasdie said:
@kbanna said:

@tyloss said:

54% of Xbox One games are sub 1080P

Sony has no exclusive that is 1080p 60fps. And what??

You could make any game on the PS4/Xbox One run at 1080p at 60fps if you're willing to cut down on rendering. Arguing which has the most 1080p games is kind of pointless. You can run a game in 4k if you like looking at PS2 era textures and models.

Resolution is a good performance comparison though when a game is running on both platforms. If game X runs at 1080p on one console and 720p on another consoles, and both are rendering the same level of graphics and running at the same framerate, we can determine that the console running the 1080p version is more powerful. If you say console X has more 1080p exclusives that doesn't mean much. They could turn down the assets to nothing to get that 1080p. It's not a good comparison

Wasdie... doesn't it hurt your brain seeing so many people so ignorant of how hardware and software works? This has been my hobby since i was a kid playing with my Atari 2600 and apple iic... i learned basic back then and took java, c++, direct X and game dev classes in college and then changed coruse to web programming as it seemed like a safer more secure bet. And guess what I have been at the same job for 6 years now...so I guess it was. Anyway it boggles my mind how these people think and talk about hardware. People rambling about "stacked chips", "Stereo GPus" , makes me think of a 1990s era hifi stereo rack system...not a game console or a computer. Where do these people come up with this stuff?

Bottom line is that the Xbone is somewhat equivalent to a 7790 AMD bonaire gpu and PS4 is 7870 Pitcarin Gpu...(same one I got in my PC) ... PS4 has DDR5 no esram bottleneck/custom coded small buffer for ram. It's all available for the cpu and gpu and it's shared. Just like the nvidia 8800gtx was when it curb stomped the competition way back when. PS4 has twice the rops, twice the TMUs, 1/3 more compute / Shader cores.. The hardware is what it is, and the ps4 trumps the xbox and always will this gen.

Is there that many people who got suckered into the tv box over a few launch games and a multiplayer multiplat that they need to justify their purchase based on false hope by thinking the console will transform into a powerhouse?

#60 Posted by Midnightshade29 (5606 posts) -

@darkangel115 said:

@slimdogmilionar said:

@Wasdie said:

You can't just have the GPU working harder just because a second CPU is sending instructions to it. It's just going to be working a bit more efficently and staying near 100% more often as it won't have to wait for the CPU.

This is exactly what it sounds like he's saying in the article, but staying at 100% more often would generate more heat.

"it effectively gives every Xbox One owner a new GPU that is twice as fastas the old one"

This is misleading and a statement fanboys will run with when what he should have really said was, gives every Xbox owner a GPU that is twice as efficient as it is now. Twice as fast would be xbox gpu clocked@1700

well you are correct, isn't 90% of system wars people quoting misleading numbers. How often have we heard that the PS4 is 50% more powerful when that's hardly correct. now will you see people saying the X1 is 50% more powerful because it added 100% power? Probably, but its just as true as the 50% power part i stated. Meanwhile, both systems are pretty similar in terms of power and nobody wants to accept that for some reason

No one wants to accept it because they are not the same at all. A 7790 bonaire 128bit bus CPU with 8gb ddr3 is not the same as a 7870 256bit pitcarin with 8gb ddr5

Here:

7870 ~ PS4 vs. 7790 ~ Xb1

Higher pixel rate32 GPixel/svs16 GPixel/s2x higher pixel rate
Higher texture rate80 GTexel/svs56 GTexel/s
More render output processors32vs16

Wider memory bus256 bitvs128 bit

Compute units 18 vs 12

And many more specs as seen here:

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-HD-7870-vs-Radeon-HD-7790

Looks like the ps4 is up to 2x more power in gpu than the xbone.... and it has been seen in multiplats but lemmings "DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT IT" ...lol

#61 Posted by blackace (21410 posts) -

@PinkieWinkie said:

@Opus_Rea-333: lol. Terrible troll is terrible.

Look in the mirror and say that.

That's what you are.

#62 Posted by tormentos (20221 posts) -

@blackace said:

@Wasdie: This isn't tdkmillsy saying those things in his post. It's actually a developer who's making these claims. Whether he's right or wrong will come to light long before the E3 gets here. Developers already have their new SDK and the XB1 already has some DX12 features in the box. Full DX12 won't hit until 2015, but XB1 will get it before PC. I think M$ has two more large updates this year. One in April and another in Sept.

So much BS on this post is not even funny.

DX is MS late entry into the to the metal api,Mantle is out the PS always have tools like mantle and DX is set for 2015,lol the xbox one having some features is irrelevant,anything it can do by API the PS4 can do it as well.

#63 Posted by Krelian-co (13098 posts) -

@Midnightshade29 said:

@darkangel115 said:

@slimdogmilionar said:

@Wasdie said:

You can't just have the GPU working harder just because a second CPU is sending instructions to it. It's just going to be working a bit more efficently and staying near 100% more often as it won't have to wait for the CPU.

This is exactly what it sounds like he's saying in the article, but staying at 100% more often would generate more heat.

"it effectively gives every Xbox One owner a new GPU that is twice as fastas the old one"

This is misleading and a statement fanboys will run with when what he should have really said was, gives every Xbox owner a GPU that is twice as efficient as it is now. Twice as fast would be xbox gpu clocked@1700

well you are correct, isn't 90% of system wars people quoting misleading numbers. How often have we heard that the PS4 is 50% more powerful when that's hardly correct. now will you see people saying the X1 is 50% more powerful because it added 100% power? Probably, but its just as true as the 50% power part i stated. Meanwhile, both systems are pretty similar in terms of power and nobody wants to accept that for some reason

No one wants to accept it because they are not the same at all. A 7790 bonaire 128bit bus CPU with 8gb ddr3 is not the same as a 7870 256bit pitcarin with 8gb ddr5

Here:

7870 ~ PS4 vs. 7790 ~ Xb1

Higher pixel rate32 GPixel/svs16 GPixel/s2x higher pixel rate
Higher texture rate80 GTexel/svs56 GTexel/s
More render output processors32vs16

Wider memory bus256 bitvs128 bit

Compute units 18 vs 12

And many more specs as seen here:

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-HD-7870-vs-Radeon-HD-7790

Looks like the ps4 is up to 2x more power in gpu than the xbone.... and it has been seen in multiplats but lemmings "DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT IT" ...lol

who cares about FACTS when you can spam directx in every thread, lem logic.

#64 Edited by Opus_Rea-333 (1124 posts) -

Xbox Boss Promises to Prove the Power of the Cloud

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/04/03/xbox-boss-promises-to-prove-the-power-of-the-cloud-says-todays-demo-wasnt-throwaway-work/

Power of the cloud Yo. Real after all.

#65 Posted by PinkieWinkie (1454 posts) -

@blackace: Fair enough. Im a troll and you are just delusional.

#66 Posted by Opus_Rea-333 (1124 posts) -

Microsoft Explains why the Xbox One’s ESRAM is a “Huge Win” and Allows Reaching 1080p/60 FPS

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/04/04/microsoft-explains-why-the-xbox-ones-esram-is-a-huge-win-and-helps-reaching-1080p60-fps/

posted: 4/4/2014

#67 Posted by Wasdie (50643 posts) -

@Opus_Rea-333: You sound very gullible. Cloud computing can't help for real time rendering and the ESRAM is a bottleneck.

#68 Posted by PinkieWinkie (1454 posts) -

@Opus_Rea-333: What do you expect Microsoft to say? Its called PR.

#69 Edited by Opus_Rea-333 (1124 posts) -

@Wasdie said:

@Opus_Rea-333: You sound very gullible. Cloud computing can't help for real time rendering and the ESRAM is a bottleneck.

Well tell that to Microsoft they know more about their own custom hardware than you do Bro.

The links i posted came from Microsoft not a random Tech "know it all" paid by Sony like you.

#70 Edited by Mozelleple112 (6701 posts) -

@kbanna said:

@tyloss said:

54% of Xbox One games are sub 1080P

Sony has no exclusive that is 1080p 60fps. And what??

What does that have to do with anything?? 1080p/60fps is not the standard. 1080p/30fps is the standard of the 8th generation, just like 720p/30fps was for the 7th and 480p/30fps for the 6th and how 2160p/30fps (4K) will most likely be the standard of the 9th generation when PS5 and the others launch around the year 2020.

More than half the Xbox One games to not meet this generations standard, yet the vast majority (90%-ish according to a GS thread I read the title of, I'm sure the TC provided a source for that) of PS4 games are 1080p/30fps as is the standard.

60 fps will NEVER be console standard because developers will always prefer superior visuals over the slight performance advantage from 60 to 30 fps. Gen 10 will be 8K/30fps, Gen 11 @ 16K/30fps and so on... I guarantee it.

And when I play on PC... I prefer running ultra settings @ 30 fps over medium settings at 60 any day of the week. (though sometimes I get ultra high settings AND 60 fps, despite the age of my PC; a 2009 rig.)

#71 Edited by Wasdie (50643 posts) -

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Wasdie said:

@Opus_Rea-333: You sound very gullible. Cloud computing can't help for real time rendering and the ESRAM is a bottleneck.

Well tell that to Microsoft they know more about their own custom hardware than you do Bro.

The links i posted came from Microsoft not a random Tech "know it all" paid by Sony like you.

Appeal to authority fallacy.

It's like you have no idea how PR departments work.

#72 Posted by Opus_Rea-333 (1124 posts) -

@Wasdie said:

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Wasdie said:

@Opus_Rea-333: You sound very gullible. Cloud computing can't help for real time rendering and the ESRAM is a bottleneck.

Well tell that to Microsoft they know more about their own custom hardware than you do Bro.

The links i posted came from Microsoft not a random Tech "know it all" paid by Sony like you.

Appeal to authority fallacy.

It's like you have no idea how PR departments work.

Prove that it is just PR marketing. Waiting for the link.

#73 Posted by Evo_nine (2099 posts) -

Hmmm who to beleive

Some loser sony fanboys posting on sn internet forum or someone who has first hand experience dealing with dx12

If this is true it would be so funny lol

#74 Posted by Wasdie (50643 posts) -

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Wasdie said:

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Wasdie said:

@Opus_Rea-333: You sound very gullible. Cloud computing can't help for real time rendering and the ESRAM is a bottleneck.

Well tell that to Microsoft they know more about their own custom hardware than you do Bro.

The links i posted came from Microsoft not a random Tech "know it all" paid by Sony like you.

Appeal to authority fallacy.

It's like you have no idea how PR departments work.

Prove that it is just PR marketing. Waiting for the link.

If you want to stay ignorant and ignore everything else posted in this thread that's your business.

Your links aren't worth anything at all as they are from the mouth of PR and have absolutely no legitimate backing by any engineers. You may want to improve the quality of your links before making any sort of a statement.

Here's a great actual technological analysis of why the ESRAM is a bottleneck.

As for cloud rendering, why do you think OnLive failed? Latency. Same for any sort of cloud rendering. If you have to render a frame within 33ms for 60fps gaming, you can't have a 50ms latency on waiting for the cloud.

#75 Posted by tyloss (846 posts) -

If ESRAM is such a huge win how 54% of the games on the Xbox One are sub 1080p

#76 Posted by Wasdie (50643 posts) -

@tyloss: Microsoft PR assures us that it's actually an advantage.

#77 Posted by kbanna (739 posts) -

@Mozelleple112 said:

@kbanna said:

@tyloss said:

54% of Xbox One games are sub 1080P

Sony has no exclusive that is 1080p 60fps. And what??

What does that have to do with anything?? 1080p/60fps is not the standard. 1080p/30fps is the standard of the 8th generation, just like 720p/30fps was for the 7th and 480p/30fps for the 6th and how 2160p/30fps (4K) will most likely be the standard of the 9th generation when PS5 and the others launch around the year 2020.

More than half the Xbox One games to not meet this generations standard, yet the vast majority (90%-ish according to a GS thread I read the title of, I'm sure the TC provided a source for that) of PS4 games are 1080p/30fps as is the standard.

60 fps will NEVER be console standard because developers will always prefer superior visuals over the slight performance advantage from 60 to 30 fps. Gen 10 will be 8K/30fps, Gen 11 @ 16K/30fps and so on... I guarantee it.

And when I play on PC... I prefer running ultra settings @ 30 fps over medium settings at 60 any day of the week. (though sometimes I get ultra high settings AND 60 fps, despite the age of my PC; a 2009 rig.)

Says who? Was there some type of official press release for this statement? Or let me guess, its common sense right? As far as that other bullshit about half of xbox games meet your standard, and 90% of Sony blah, blah, blah, no one cares about an imaginary bar you set and what console met it.

These consoles will be available for 10 plus years. So xbox is not running 1080p 30fps 4 months in? Cool, don't buy it. Buy the one that you feel meets that standard of yours...of course I fully expect that once the X1 can run games constantly with your parameters, you will move the goal post.

#78 Edited by tonitorsi (8613 posts) -

@Couth_ said:

@tdkmillsy said:

XBox One is the biggest beneficiary; it effectively gives every Xbox One owner a new GPU that is twice as fast as the old one.

I wish I could post all the lol gifs :[

REQUEST THAT SHALL BE GIVEN TO YE

,

#79 Posted by cainetao11 (19551 posts) -

@kbanna said:

@Wasdie said:

@kbanna said:

I get what your trying to say, but the bottom line is that Forza 5 is not a game that looks last gen or have turned down ps2 assets , despite what Ps4 fans who have never played the game would have you believe. It looks incredible on your screen at home...well beyond any driving game we have seen from a console last gen.

Yet to save face the rhetoric has turn to 2d crowds, and trees are generic etc. The game looks beautiful, its running at 1080p and 60fps locked. That's the goal post set by Sony fans as "Next gen" and ironically the x1 is the only console doing it.

So coming here bragging 54% of X console is 1080p is pointless. 54% of what?? the 15 games that are out? this gen just started. "On topic" is the dx12 article.

I'm not saying it doesn't look great, but you said it yourself they had to make some compromises. This is exactly what I'm saying. What matters is the end result and Forza 5 looks great and it's a great showcase of what the Xbox One is capeable of.

However the comparison is more difficult and far more subjective than a multiplatform comparison where the renderer is rendering the same assets on two separate platforms.

Both consoles are easily capable of 1080p @60fps, it just comes down to the compromises and sacrifices that the devs need to make. Everybody here knows that but they willingly choose to ignore it.

I honestly don't think everyone here knows that tbh.

Agreed. There is no doubt PS4 has the edge in power. But I still enjoyed gaming on my PS2 when I knew my Xbox was stronger or I could have gotten a Gamecube for more power as well. If power meant so much to me, why wouldn't I just save and invest in a great rig, that destroys any console?

#80 Posted by Ribstaylor1 (1493 posts) -

Nice to see them completely ignore their largest customer base windows 7 with this. I was expecting that to happen but come the fuck on something like 60% of their user base is running windows 7. By the time it's even properly implemented in games it will be time for a new rig anyway.

#81 Edited by cainetao11 (19551 posts) -

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Wasdie said:

@Opus_Rea-333: You sound very gullible. Cloud computing can't help for real time rendering and the ESRAM is a bottleneck.

Well tell that to Microsoft they know more about their own custom hardware than you do Bro.

The links i posted came from Microsoft not a random Tech "know it all" paid by Sony like you.

@Wasdie Hey can you get me a job? I'll go cow for money. LOL

#82 Posted by scatteh316 (5024 posts) -

@tdkmillsy said:

@scatteh316 said:

Double the GPU performance for Xbone just by moving to DirectX 12?

Get the fuck out, anyone with half a brain cell knows that's complete tosh.

And those CPU utilisation charts are from PC, Xbones already runs in all 8 cores.

Honestly.... retards. ....retards everywhere...

While i'm just reporting what someone else has said, if you watched the videos the CPU utilisation charts apply to PC, Tablet, Phone and Xbox One. The benefits are for all those platforms.

Take your retard statement and shove it up your arse.

Xbone games already use all 8 cores and use them very very well..... you retard..

#83 Posted by darkangel115 (2234 posts) -

@Midnightshade29:

Congrats you can copy and paste numbers that have don't understand that you found on a website. No machine or component ever reaches peak performance. All those numbers are theoretical just like the esram theoritcal output cows threw out the window. Love those double standards. Also I'm not a lem I have the big 3 xbox, ps4 and a pc stronger then both. I'm just pointing out how people quote stupid numbers they don't understand then you reply proving me correct by doing just that. Now excuse me, I have to change my pants because I shit myself from laughing so hard at the irony of your post. Good day sir ;)

#84 Posted by GrenadeLauncher (6256 posts) -

lol ridiculous hyperbole

Do you lemming cunts genuinely believe DX12 will make graphics cards spontaneously combust? Get a grip.

#85 Posted by BattleSpectre (7234 posts) -

Don't be a bunch of negative nancies, this is only good news if true.

#86 Posted by Midnightshade29 (5606 posts) -

@darkangel115 said:

@Midnightshade29:

Congrats you can copy and paste numbers that have don't understand that you found on a website. No machine or component ever reaches peak performance. All those numbers are theoretical just like the esram theoritcal output cows threw out the window. Love those double standards. Also I'm not a lem I have the big 3 xbox, ps4 and a pc stronger then both. I'm just pointing out how people quote stupid numbers they don't understand then you reply proving me correct by doing just that. Now excuse me, I have to change my pants because I shit myself from laughing so hard at the irony of your post. Good day sir ;)

You are full of shyte... seriously...

256bit is more than 128bit in bandwidth.

18cu cores are more than 12 cu cores

32 ROPS are more than 16 rops ,

a 7870 pitcarin gpu is faster than a 7790 bonaire gpu

These are all facts!!! NOTHING IS THEORETICAL HERE!

You would have to be the biggest lier to say you know tech and call GPU specs like this false...they are not false...they are the facts. 18 is more than 12....... , 32 is 2x more than 16, 256bit is more than 128bit....or is Math that everyone knows wrong and your crap butthurt math right?

My god you lemmings believe everything you hear, except the facts. You are the same people that will fall for anything. If government says so it must be true... If MS says so it must be true... Lets IGNORE FACTS.....

Well Guess what I DON'T IGNORE FACTS.... Go back to your illusionary world where a lower speced gpu is better than a higher specced gpu.... my god the lunacy of these people... It makes my brain hurt!

#87 Posted by GrenadeLauncher (6256 posts) -

@tdkmillsy said:

Downside is more heat generation, could be why the Xbox One is so big.

Already debunked then. The Xbone runs as hot as the PS4. If this was true every Xbone out there right now would die.

#89 Posted by always_explicit (3097 posts) -

Mmmmm juicy Xboxy rumours.

Love watching the cows dance haha.

#90 Edited by groowagon (3029 posts) -

AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

in other news, the new firmware update for NES will make it more powerful than current gen consoles.

only thing you can do software-wise is to gain access to the hardwares full potential. the hardware itself is, and always will be, weaker than on PS4.

if they could "double the GPU performance" through new API, it would basicly just mean that the current API is such huge bullshit that it utilizes the current hardware piss-poorly. think of developing games to modern hardware with dev tools from the 90's.

#91 Edited by handssss (1898 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

@kbanna said:

@Wasdie said:

@kbanna said:

I get what your trying to say, but the bottom line is that Forza 5 is not a game that looks last gen or have turned down ps2 assets , despite what Ps4 fans who have never played the game would have you believe. It looks incredible on your screen at home...well beyond any driving game we have seen from a console last gen.

Yet to save face the rhetoric has turn to 2d crowds, and trees are generic etc. The game looks beautiful, its running at 1080p and 60fps locked. That's the goal post set by Sony fans as "Next gen" and ironically the x1 is the only console doing it.

So coming here bragging 54% of X console is 1080p is pointless. 54% of what?? the 15 games that are out? this gen just started. "On topic" is the dx12 article.

I'm not saying it doesn't look great, but you said it yourself they had to make some compromises. This is exactly what I'm saying. What matters is the end result and Forza 5 looks great and it's a great showcase of what the Xbox One is capeable of.

However the comparison is more difficult and far more subjective than a multiplatform comparison where the renderer is rendering the same assets on two separate platforms.

Both consoles are easily capable of 1080p @60fps, it just comes down to the compromises and sacrifices that the devs need to make. Everybody here knows that but they willingly choose to ignore it.

I honestly don't think everyone here knows that tbh.

Agreed. There is no doubt PS4 has the edge in power. But I still enjoyed gaming on my PS2 when I knew my Xbox was stronger or I could have gotten a Gamecube for more power as well. If power meant so much to me, why wouldn't I just save and invest in a great rig, that destroys any console?

power alone isn't the problem. ps2 was same price / cheaper than the xbox and came out earlier. the xbox 360 was cheaper than the ps3 and came out earlier.

the xbone is NOT cheaper than the ps4 and did not come out first except for in some countries, and in those cases it was only first by 1 week.

#92 Edited by cainetao11 (19551 posts) -

@handssss said:

@cainetao11 said:

@kbanna said:

@Wasdie said:

@kbanna said:

I get what your trying to say, but the bottom line is that Forza 5 is not a game that looks last gen or have turned down ps2 assets , despite what Ps4 fans who have never played the game would have you believe. It looks incredible on your screen at home...well beyond any driving game we have seen from a console last gen.

Yet to save face the rhetoric has turn to 2d crowds, and trees are generic etc. The game looks beautiful, its running at 1080p and 60fps locked. That's the goal post set by Sony fans as "Next gen" and ironically the x1 is the only console doing it.

So coming here bragging 54% of X console is 1080p is pointless. 54% of what?? the 15 games that are out? this gen just started. "On topic" is the dx12 article.

I'm not saying it doesn't look great, but you said it yourself they had to make some compromises. This is exactly what I'm saying. What matters is the end result and Forza 5 looks great and it's a great showcase of what the Xbox One is capeable of.

However the comparison is more difficult and far more subjective than a multiplatform comparison where the renderer is rendering the same assets on two separate platforms.

Both consoles are easily capable of 1080p @60fps, it just comes down to the compromises and sacrifices that the devs need to make. Everybody here knows that but they willingly choose to ignore it.

I honestly don't think everyone here knows that tbh.

Agreed. There is no doubt PS4 has the edge in power. But I still enjoyed gaming on my PS2 when I knew my Xbox was stronger or I could have gotten a Gamecube for more power as well. If power meant so much to me, why wouldn't I just save and invest in a great rig, that destroys any console?

power alone isn't the problem. ps2 was same price / cheaper than the xbox and came out earlier. the xbox 360 was cheaper than the ps3 and came out earlier.

the xbone is NOT cheaper than the ps4 and did not come out first except for in some countries, and in those cases it was only first by 1 week.

No it isn't cheaper, but it contains more, physically in the box than the PS4. People here expect companies to abandon marketing tools that have been utilized in most industries for years, because they can read a tech forum or magazine interview. Why would a company NOT charge more, when the package contains more? Because of a power difference? When companies know majority of potential buyers don't go to forums? I also don't recall the PS2 ever being the same price as the Xbox, but it wasn't power that was cited. It was the HDD back then. That I do remember.

#93 Posted by MrXboxOne (799 posts) -

@Wasdie said:

@Silenthps said:

@Wasdie said:

In short, this guy is an idiot who knows nothing about hardware. I won't even go into how many other things are wrong with what he's posted.

Did you just call the CEO of stardock an idiot

If this is what he believes, then I stick by it. I feel he's never worked with a game console before because he's applying what he's seeing with a PC which is bottlenecked by a high level software API to a console which does not have that.

And you have? LOL

#94 Edited by misterpmedia (4489 posts) -

@Wasdie said:

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Wasdie said:

@Opus_Rea-333 said:

@Wasdie said:

@Opus_Rea-333: You sound very gullible. Cloud computing can't help for real time rendering and the ESRAM is a bottleneck.

Well tell that to Microsoft they know more about their own custom hardware than you do Bro.

The links i posted came from Microsoft not a random Tech "know it all" paid by Sony like you.

Appeal to authority fallacy.

It's like you have no idea how PR departments work.

Prove that it is just PR marketing. Waiting for the link.

If you want to stay ignorant and ignore everything else posted in this thread that's your business.

Your links aren't worth anything at all as they are from the mouth of PR and have absolutely no legitimate backing by any engineers. You may want to improve the quality of your links before making any sort of a statement.

Here's a great actual technological analysis of why the ESRAM is a bottleneck.

As for cloud rendering, why do you think OnLive failed? Latency. Same for any sort of cloud rendering. If you have to render a frame within 33ms for 60fps gaming, you can't have a 50ms latency on waiting for the cloud.

Ouch, Opus getting schooled in here.

@cainetao11 said:

@kbanna said:

@Wasdie said:

@kbanna said:

I get what your trying to say, but the bottom line is that Forza 5 is not a game that looks last gen or have turned down ps2 assets , despite what Ps4 fans who have never played the game would have you believe. It looks incredible on your screen at home...well beyond any driving game we have seen from a console last gen.

Yet to save face the rhetoric has turn to 2d crowds, and trees are generic etc. The game looks beautiful, its running at 1080p and 60fps locked. That's the goal post set by Sony fans as "Next gen" and ironically the x1 is the only console doing it.

So coming here bragging 54% of X console is 1080p is pointless. 54% of what?? the 15 games that are out? this gen just started. "On topic" is the dx12 article.

I'm not saying it doesn't look great, but you said it yourself they had to make some compromises. This is exactly what I'm saying. What matters is the end result and Forza 5 looks great and it's a great showcase of what the Xbox One is capeable of.

However the comparison is more difficult and far more subjective than a multiplatform comparison where the renderer is rendering the same assets on two separate platforms.

Both consoles are easily capable of 1080p @60fps, it just comes down to the compromises and sacrifices that the devs need to make. Everybody here knows that but they willingly choose to ignore it.

I honestly don't think everyone here knows that tbh.

Agreed. There is no doubt PS4 has the edge in power. But I still enjoyed gaming on my PS2 when I knew my Xbox was stronger or I could have gotten a Gamecube for more power as well. If power meant so much to me, why wouldn't I just save and invest in a great rig, that destroys any console?

Didn't the Gcube and OG Xbox come late into the gen though? The PS2 was already out and killing it so the other boxes definitely had time to incorporate superior hardware but no-one cared back then I bet. So it's also worth mentioning that 'power' discussion has only really become more and more prevalent as gens have progressed on, especially when disparity rose its ugly head with Sony messing up their architecture last gen. Now coming into this gen I'm willing to bet a lot of people were holding back to see which one would be the strongest/ performed better, no-one wants to be fucked over twice, if you get my meaning.

#95 Posted by magicalclick (23953 posts) -

Actually you can do that on XboxOne before DX12 already. It has its own lower level API. Forza5 already used it. Of course, it is harder to do, DX12 makes it easier. So, more games will be more optimized easier and sooner. Although since this benefits PC even more. Because of the jump, PC game can play even crazier graphics, leaving X1 and PS4 drastically behind.

#96 Posted by cainetao11 (19551 posts) -

@misterpmedia:

I get your meaning but the difference in power between the two consoles isn't big enough for me to care at this point. 80% of the libraries will be the same, and multis will have an edge on PS4. But the PC will the edge on the PS4 so with a console you're already accepting less than the best. Its all subjective, and the features, and games are what made me get an X1 first. And I haven't been disappointed.

#97 Edited by blackace (21410 posts) -

In the end Microsoft will just have to show it in the end. Discussing it on here wthl a bunch of biased trolling haters won't get anyone anywhere. Everyone thinks they know everything about this, when most don't know anything concrete about it.

Most people already know why the games weren't all 1080p on the XB1. It's simple really, the SDK hardware, software tools drivers, etc.. weren't ready when the XB1 launched. It obvious Microsoft wanted to launch with DX12 already on the system. By this time next year, you won't see anymore 720P games.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/04/03/xbox-boss-promises-to-prove-the-power-of-the-cloud-says-todays-demo-wasnt-throwaway-work/

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@always_explicit said:

Mmmmm juicy Xboxy rumours.

Love watching the cows dance haha.

Cows are in panic mode, as usual. If the the most powerful game console on the planet, why do they care so much about the XB1? lol!! Why is there a need to bash anything positive about the XB1?

#98 Edited by tormentos (20221 posts) -

@blackace said:

In the end Microsoft will just have to show it in the end. Discussing it on here wthl a bunch of biased trolling haters won't get anyone anywhere. Everyone thinks they know everything about this, when most don't know anything concrete about it.

Most people already know why the games weren't all 1080p on the XB1. It's simple really, the SDK hardware, software tools drivers, etc.. weren't ready when the XB1 launched. It obvious Microsoft wanted to launch with DX12 already on the system. By this time next year, you won't see anymore 720P games.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/04/03/xbox-boss-promises-to-prove-the-power-of-the-cloud-says-todays-demo-wasnt-throwaway-work/

****************************************************************

@always_explicit said:

Mmmmm juicy Xboxy rumours.

Love watching the cows dance haha.

Cows are in panic mode, as usual. If the the most powerful game console on the planet, why do they care so much about the XB1? lol!! Why is there a need to bash anything positive about the XB1?

That wasn't what MS told DF..

They claimed that games would speak for it self on launch,and they did speak for them self the xbox one is weak console,and MS had to cancel a reservation they have to make believe that the xbox one will improve basically they are giving up on everything they once hyped to be killer,in order to make the xbox one look a little stronger.

Fact is the 7790 will never beat the 7870 period there is no scape from this,and DX12 and anything MS do will not change that,in the end the PS4 will always be faster and stronger.

#99 Posted by blackace (21410 posts) -
@tormentos said:

@blackace said:

In the end Microsoft will just have to show it in the end. Discussing it on here wthl a bunch of biased trolling haters won't get anyone anywhere. Everyone thinks they know everything about this, when most don't know anything concrete about it.

Most people already know why the games weren't all 1080p on the XB1. It's simple really, the SDK hardware, software tools drivers, etc.. weren't ready when the XB1 launched. It obvious Microsoft wanted to launch with DX12 already on the system. By this time next year, you won't see anymore 720P games.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/04/03/xbox-boss-promises-to-prove-the-power-of-the-cloud-says-todays-demo-wasnt-throwaway-work/

****************************************************************

@always_explicit said:

Mmmmm juicy Xboxy rumours.

Love watching the cows dance haha.

Cows are in panic mode, as usual. If the the most powerful game console on the planet, why do they care so much about the XB1? lol!! Why is there a need to bash anything positive about the XB1?

That wasn't what MS told DF..

They claimed that games would speak for it self on launch,and they did speak for them self the xbox one is weak console,and MS had to cancel a reservation they have to make believe that the xbox one will improve basically they are giving up on everything they once hyped to be killer,in order to make the xbox one look a little stronger.

Fact is the 7790 will never beat the 7870 period there is no scape from this,and DX12 and anything MS do will not change that,in the end the PS4 will always be faster and stronger.

Panic mode confirmed. lol!!

http://www.ensenandoacomeramihijo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/crying_cow-150x150.jpg

#100 Posted by tormentos (20221 posts) -
@cainetao11 said:

Agreed. There is no doubt PS4 has the edge in power. But I still enjoyed gaming on my PS2 when I knew my Xbox was stronger or I could have gotten a Gamecube for more power as well. If power meant so much to me, why wouldn't I just save and invest in a great rig, that destroys any console?

The S2 was release 20 months before the xbox,by the time the xbox and GC landed the PS2 was 25 million units sold,and had most of the big games on lock,so yeah you could have bough and xbox for power,but you will play nothing compare to the PS2.

And yes you can invest in a great rig,but don't spec it to cost $399...

@cainetao11 said:

@misterpmedia:

I get your meaning but the difference in power between the two consoles isn't big enough for me to care at this point. 80% of the libraries will be the same, and multis will have an edge on PS4. But the PC will the edge on the PS4 so with a console you're already accepting less than the best. Its all subjective, and the features, and games are what made me get an X1 first. And I haven't been disappointed.

Downplaying the edge the PS4 based on PC having the edge on the PS4 is a joke find me a $33 dollar PC that beat the PS4.

Yes and i say $300 because the PS4 is $100 cheaper than the xbox one and stronger,so find me a cheaper by $100 PC that is stronger than the PS4 and you have a point,hell you can't even make one for $400 that equal to the PS4 t alone stronger.