Digital Foundry: It's Too Late For PS4 NEO

A good portion of PlayStation 4's success has been down to its spec advantage over Xbox One, combined with a focus on the hardcore player. Sony's technological advantage will be gone with the next wave of hardware - we already know that it cannot support true 4K resolution on cutting-edge games, because we've seen the internal documents that outline Sony's upscaling strategies for 4K display support (more on that soon). It's also unfeasible for Sony to produce a radically revised Neo - the silicon has been designed, developer kits have gone out. Matching Scorpio would require scrapping Neo's existing processor completely.

Just about the only option available to Sony is the route Microsoft chose for Xbox One in the face of PS4's higher specification - overclocking the processor. It could inch the Neo a little closer to the target Scorpio spec, but hitting 6TF there is off the table: Sony would need a 40 CU Polaris 10 clocked at 1.2GHz to hit the same level. And that wouldn't address the 100GB/s bandwidth deficit or the 4GB memory gap we suspect will separate Neo and Scorpio.

But there is an elephant in the room here: price. Microsoft's brief to AMD in producing this behemoth of a semi-custom design looks pretty obvious - to create the most powerful console possible. The GPU is more powerful and it's going to be larger, which means it's going to be more expensive to produce. Meanwhile, assuming we're right about the 4GB of additional memory, that's not going to be cheap either - when we attended AMD's Munich launch event for Fury X and the Radeon 300 series, we were told that adding an additional 4GB of GDDR5 to the R9 390/390X cost around them around $30 per unit. In short, we would not be surprised to see Scorpio cost significantly more than Neo - maybe even $100 more.

But there's certainly going to be pressure on Sony here - particularly as its next console is targeted at the hardcore player, who wants the very best. If Neo launches this year, it'll have a healthy headstart over Scorpio. However, if we're looking at a March 2017 launch, many may consider until Scorpio appears - especially as the new hardware stands to deliver a tangibly more impressive technological upgrade over the established PlayStation 4.

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Well, then. According to DF, the PS4 NEO is out and out outclassed by the Scorpio, and it is far too late for Sony to be able to go back to the drawing board and try and respond to the Scorpio's outrageous specs.

Sony's only option is to launch early, but either way, they have lost the one edge they had over Microsoft this generation- the better designed, more powerful console.

Poor cows, they just can't catch a break these dayzzz. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. lol :P

Would be funny if Scorpio specs were just bluff, so they would send Sony back to the drawing board.

This gon be gud.

Still, all that power and no exclusives.

MS still needs to make compelling exclusives for their system.

Interesting although I kinda knew that. I'm sure they were in developement for quit some time with the specs of the Neo with their games and you just can't say scrap that all of a sudden and start over. If they was to do that then there's no way it would be released next year so I guess the only thing they can do is release it early which will be enough for them cause Playstation sells anyways but they just won't be the most powerful console anymore, that's all.

Windows is their system too, so why can't they make games on that ?

@SecretPolice: And I'll be reminding them about it every day all day and all night long :P those naughty ottsels

As long as I see games coming to both systems I don't care about the power. They'll be outdated a year after they release anyway.

I know, but even the games didn't look as good as what sony has offered. Granted, they're not released yet but first impressions are important.

Still need to watch both MS and Sony's conference, lol !!! It's been a busy few days for me :p

But I've read up on the biggest news. Already saw We Happy Few, which looks really good. And the EA and Bethesda conference also showed some very interesting games.

I'm holding off my final thoughts until I have watched both conferences, but nothing on PS4 so far really makes me want to go out and buy one... yet. Though 2016 is a lot better for PS than 2015 was :)

Is Microsoft going to have different versions of the Scorpio? We now know the Scorpio is for the hardcore gamer will it be the same price as xbox one at launch?

After actually reading the article I think it might be over for the system itself, Sony preemptively blew their load so to speak without even officially announcing it, and from the sound of it developers already have the Neo development kit's so it's a finalized spec'd product with game development already underway for the system.

It is what it is, the PlayStation brand has done well before when outclassed in hardware, I think it will be fine now, but they just lost one of their biggest marketing chips.

K. Xbox is still useless now that it has no exclusives. Windows 10+PS4 is still the best

You likely don't have a high end PC, most around here don't have a high end PC, the fact of the matter is this is largely a community filled with console gamers.

Exclusive's mean dick to these people even if they say otherwise, the term exclusive extends as far as your access to another system, it's not a uniformed or identical term that applies to everyone equally. The reality is that most people around here are not in the PC demographic, and even if they are this system likely outclasses their current PC's.

Microsoft is rewriting the book for the way things will be done in the future, unification, lack of standard generations, immense value and one purchase extending across two platforms, there's no negative here, and for the hundreds of millions of people out there who game on consoles the Scorpio is an extremely viable option, the most viable option in relation to a PC.

Interesting that DF still claims both NEO and Scorpio would be using Jaguar instead of zen/zen lite, if that proves to be true it's a huge disapointment.

They are speculating, I have no doubt Scorpio will be Vega/Zen considering the road map and time frame for release.

Well with everything going to pc xbox is irrelevant at least PlayStation has exclusives.

We know Sony acknowledged neo but never gave any hint on specs aside from the leaked document which I don't trust same for rumours so df is jumping the gun here. I'll wait for the official announcement by sony on neo to make up mind.

Ps2 was a weaker console and that outsold everything it could end up the same if MS dumps everyhing on pc as there will be no reason to buy xbox.

This dumb post again, how many times are you people going to parrot this same idiotic and completely untrue view?

• How cows want you to perceive them to shit talk Xbox: "WE'RE ALL PC GAMERS, XBOX ONE IS IRRELEVANT, PC MASTER RACE WOOOO! WOOOOO!"

• Reality: "I only have a PlayStation 4, and a few of us have PC's"

yeah its "too late" for the neo to be the best console for a year getting all the best versions of multiplats.

whatever will the NEO do while its unrivaled for entire year on the market

Hardcore gamers will not be gaming on a console in the first place just a rich person would be driving a Mercedes instead of a Toyota... Those who want proper 4K gaming will build a custom PC with 2x GTX80 cards at the time. All the PS4 needs to do is keep releasing quality exclusives like The Last of Us, Uncharted 4, Bloodborne and looking at E3 with God of War 4, Detroit, Horizon (all look as good as The Witcher 3 maxed at 4K) Sony doesn't need a 6 Teraflop console. The Xboned 2 on the other hand, doesn't have quality exclusives like the PS4, can't run games better than my PC or upgraded pc...useless pos.

So you still give money to MS either way...

MS is smart because of this. They don't care if you buy an Xbox or a Windows PC. They make money either way. It's good business. This means that they don't care if the Xbox undersells the PS4. Eliminating exclusives between Windows and Xbox means that MS can sustain an Xbox that sells less than Sony hardware.

Fanboy's Mind:

PS4 vs. Windows PC vs. Xbox One = Sony > Windows PC (They need to fix the Windows store) > Xbox One

Microsofts Mind:

Windows PC + Xbox vs. PS4 = Windows PC + Xbox >>>> PS4

System Wars will never change. Xbox still won't have exclusives and Cows will rag on Lemmings, but MS. doesn't give a shit as long as they make money.

Looks like my future 3rd party games are gonna be played on da Scorpio.

As far as sales go it will not matter. The average consumer does not know all this and people will still walk into Best Buy and see a PS4 "neo" or Xbox "Scorpio" and still buy the PS4 so I'm confused as to why the tone of the articles is what it is. I feels like they are saying Sony is in trouble which it isn't. The Xbox brand has no titles to drive sales anymore, they literally only have Halo now.

"Hardcore gamers" LOL

"all look as good as The Witcher 3 maxed at 4K" LOL

This brings 4K gaming to the masses, something that won't be possible elsewhere without having to shell out $1,000+ on a PC, and a lot of people have no desire to build, own or use a PC.

It's as simple as that...

Your ass is on fire right now, it's incredible how bent out of shape Scorpio is making you, look at all of the over-rationalization haha, it's hilarious.

Eh, as a PC gamer, I can't really get on board the Scorpio hype train (if there is one), but it's a good move for MS to make now rather than later. VR would have been a very bad thing to miss out on.

@dynamitecop: So tell me why in the hell should I even consider xbox. Pcs getting all xbox exclusives and pc has a lot more to offer on top of that. Not even Scorpio is relevant. MS seems to think raw power can sell on it's own but It has always been about games and forever will be.

This is a stupid and uninformed view based upon bullshit, if most people didn't know these things the Xbox One would be outselling the PlayStation 4 right now in the United States nearly 2:1 like the Xbox 360 was, that's not happening because people are aware of the current state of affairs.

You make the consumer populous appear dumber than they actually are, most people know what they're buying when they walk into a store, most have researched these things.

@dynamitecop: why the bloody **** would I want a Scorpio when I will be getting 2x gtx1080s and can play everything the Scorpio has at 4k 60fps?!?

I don't give a shit if you should ever consider one or not, that's beside the point, some people around here (yourselves included) seem to perpetuate this nonsense that we all have high end PC's and the Xbox One is irrelevant as a result and useless, most don't, and some here don't even have PC's at all no doubt.

It's a flawed view based upon what is a straight up bald faced lie, the Xbox and its 'exclusive games' being on PC is only as relevant as a person's access to a high end PC, and most don't have access to one.

Have sony even started large scale production of the next PS4 yet, if not then everything is still on the table.

It wouldn't be the first time Sony have scrapped their R&D project for their console, people seem to forget the PS3 redesign before launch and not to mention when they aborted their attempt as an APU for the PS3 after spending a **** load of money on R&D.

If they know what they are releasing is not going to sell, then why would they release it in the first place. They know all too well what happens when you release something that is not competitive.

Apparently the dev kits are already out in the wild and being developed for, so it's kind of a done and done situation.

All they could really do at this point is try to boost clock speeds a bit, if they pull the model and throw out another one to developers it would result in terrible backlash and likely refusal to work on it again.

@GhostHawk196: You clearly have no idea, my gtx superclocked 1080 runs Witcher maxed in 4k almost at 60 fps steady in heavy combat/town searching and I am telling you now it BLOWS AWAY Uncharted 4 (looks amazing for a console and thats down to the skill of the developers), The Last of Us and God of War 4. How can you even begin to say they look as good? hahaha you need to download some uncompressed videos and stop watching you tube comparisons on shitty 1080p monitors. You seem to forget games like Uncharted 4 use a lot of programming tricks to make it the gorgeous game it is where as a PC title literally everything is raw and adjustable almost now days one way or another. The new Tomb Raider at 4k is totally stunning and if you actually play it in 4k you would understand what you just said is a joke so stop talking out of your arse and educate yourself a bit more before you try to type a load of bollox.

Sony's NEO will make games look amazing, The Last of Us 2 running on that will look crazy good no matter the specs

Scorpio running something like Halo or the next GTA or even a new Red Dead will also look stunning

Neither will out class a high end PC capable of Ultra settings at 4k (so basically a 980ti/1070 just or a 1080)

XD, what a joke.

We will see, I take it Sony will unveil the Neo at their Sony Experience for this year.

edit: You just gotta love the hypocrisy of ps fanboys

first there were like:"PC sucks you have to upgrade every year" then ps neo gets announced and they are like: "progress,60fps we must upgrade".After the scorpio announcement they are like: "specs don't matter it's all about the quality exclusives" even though ps4 has only 2 great exclusives and everything else has been delayed until 2017

What's stopping them from sending out new dev kits with a higher specs based on the same architecture? It's not like whatever they are writing is going to not be compatible. I'm sure in the past some dev kits weren't final when they first sent out, I think the original PS3 dev kits were more powerful than the actual console so devs had to downgrade the games which is much worse than an upgrade.

It would be like PC devs complaining when a new GPU comes out.

Bigger changes have been made in less time.

This is all pretty vanilla shit, it's not like they are switching architectures.

Developers are already on edge with this multiple console eco-system thing that Sony and now Microsoft are doing, even if something is based on the same architecture a lot of stuff is going to have to be rewritten and reworked when it already has to be written twice to cater to both PlayStation variants, and now two Xbox variants.

I can see developer refusal if they do something like that, they've already increased their work load by a decent amount, this would only compound that further.

Downgrading a game is not worse than upgrading, upgrading requires creation, downgrading requires simplification of what is already there, disabling settings, setting low base geometry etc, most is already there is just needs to be pushed to lower values.

It is too late. They will have price advantage and to capitalise on that they need to lunch early. Then set site on scorpio with a newer model.

Just build a PC. It's evident that most, if not all, of future Microsoft releases, will be crossplay.

When it comes to specs, perhaps yes, but not necessarily in terms of pricing.

The power isn't a big deal, I game on xbox one because I like the games. Ps4 NEO being weak doesn't mean much besides "hey my system is more powerful" thread in System wars. If Sony is making games like Days Gone, God of War, Spiderman, you're not saying "oh I can't play this because neo/ps4 is weak"(unless fan boy troll). Sony can survive with its first party content.

I'm all in for MS Scorpio but I'm definitely. Picking up a ps4 now.

Microsoft could pull a wild card and take losses, it's not out of the realm of possibility, release something more powerful at or below the Neo's cost.

If a company has the capital to do it, that would be Microsoft, and you have to remember, they're all in for PC and Xbox now so their revenue stream is going to increase dramatically with no hardware investment on the PC side.

@dynamitecop: i74790k, r9280x, 8gb ram, 1tb and 2tb WD black, Win10, my ancient pc can only run high settings. Was planning on buying an XBOX One but I guess M$ already knew that the X1 will suck so they tap the ever increasing PC market. Thanks M$

Funny how "True console exclusives are all that matters" these days. For the last few years, cows here have largely claimed that power and graphic fidelity are all that matters, and that multiplats are the true driving force these days. In every thread where someone asks about which console to get, you heard it. "The PS4 plays almost all multiplat games better". This was largely due to the fact that the PS4 had only one quality exclusive before UC4 came along last month. For the first two years of it's existence, the PS4 had pitiful first party game support, and yet it sold like hotcakes.

Now that the Scorpio is about to be the strongest console, power no longer matters. It's all about first party games. Exclusive games.... Games that can be played on one console, and nothing else. According to cows, they were lying this whole time about power being a difference maker. Parity wasn't really a thing after all, because the power difference never mattered to begin with.

While it is surely being forced by a lack of marketshare, everything MS is doing right now is extremely good for gaming. True gamers have begged and pleaded for years for these moves, and MS should be rewarded for making them. It shows these companies that gamers will support the most gaming friendly policies.

2013-MS announces drm features that are bad for gamers and is punished by seeing a ton of sales go to Sony, and deservedly so.

Since then- MS has given free backwards compatability. Sony hasn't.

MS has announced that it is now open to cross platform play. Even with it's rival PSN. Gamers have clamored for this for years, and it is now readily apparent that Sony is the one preventing this from happening.

MS has torn down much of the wall between console and pc gaming. Cross play, and cross buy, are huge changes to how the gaming model has worked. This is good for all gamers, and MS is doing it the right way.

MS has given gamers exactly what they asked for in the Scorpio. Gamers have made it clear that they were not satisfied with this console gens power for both the PS4, or XB1. MS stepped up.

Cows really need to get their heads out of the sand.

I don't doubt that MS has the capital as subsidizing the hardware costs by using accessories/software/XBL is possible. They did it before with the Xbox 360 and that console was a resounding success for them (ignoring the initial RROD catastrophe). Always a gamble, especially considering the heavy cost this new hardware is going to be.

Yeah, taking a loss doesn't always help: see also, Saturn, Dreamcast, Xbox, PS3, Wii U.

I think MS is still paying off the original Xbox loss.

This reminds me of people talking about how Vita would take the handheld market from Nintendo.