Devs React to DX 12 Doubling Xbox One GPU Speed

#552 Posted by tormentos (16435 posts) -

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos: damn torm you sound mad. We got docs that leaked from sony that says 14+4 cu is a balance now we have a real dev from a real game that it is a 14+4 cu setup why you just can't accept that? I ve been saying from the get go old engines dx 9 dx 10 will not fully use a dx 11.2 arch. New engines won't be brute force it will be about putting the right data in the right place data flow,

The ps3 arch was ahead of its time and MS knew it but they have a stronghold on the industry so the devs went with MS ......so Sony thought this gen was gonna stay with brute force but x1 and dx 12 is about data flow supercomputer ps3 arch.

Cerny say so it isn't 14+4 all 18 CU can be use for what ever you want,14+ 4 was an example not a rule that developers most go bye.

But for the 100 time troll,the PS4 has 18 CU if it use 14 for rendering and 4 CU for compute the xbox one version of the most compensate those 400+Gflops with something and the xbox one doesn't have anything to counter with PERIOD.

So if those 400Gflops are put into Physics those will run like crap on xbox one unless 400glops are use to make for them,the xbox one doesn't have that power to spare period.

I have tell you this like 100 times,using 4 CU for compute still mean that 4 CU are used just in another part,this case physics or something like that,you can't stream Physics from the cloud and get the results in the same frame as the PS4 allows,and the xbox one CPU can't handle that load either hell the CPU is like 120Gflops..lol

So no matter what 14+4 or 18 the result is the same the xbox one ending been gimped.

Oh please MS had a stronghold in the industry since before the PS1,they reign on PC,but that didn't stop the more difficult PS2 from been the platforms of choice for developers,the xbox 360 sold better so developers alined with it,ad that MS money hat several developers and you get why developers chose the 360.

The PS3 had nothing in common with the xbox one hardware,Cell was ultra powerful but hard to code for,but it was a CPU that could run GPU task the crappy CPU on the xbox one is the same crappy CPU on the PS4,is the same CPU and unlike Cell is not fit for that job.

So the whole arch argument is silly,DX12 will not make the xbox one hardware beat or even catch the PS4,is not here an will not be here until late 2015,sony tools are better and continue to improve so yeah the gap is here to stay.

#553 Posted by mynamesdenvrmax (2191 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

@lglz1337 said:

devs has spoken lems now sit

If this was about the PS4 you'd be going off your nut.

It was at one time. Only it was the PS3 and we heard about how the PS3 is awful to develop for and we saw how completely insane that drove Sony fanboys. It mutated them into this rabid dog state we see now. They kept spreading their Sony infection and now most of the internet is a massive Sony fanboy open world. They travel from site to site looking for quests (Example: Anyone who's not full on praising Sony and completely disgusted by Microsofts "greed" must be set right). Now any and all Xbox fans are in a Fallout 3 environment combing the gaming forum wasteland.

Uh oh, here's another fanboy. He was irradiated by the Fukushima nuclear leak and has turned into MEGA ULTRA SUPER OOHHH SONY A-FANBOY! You could chose to run but it won't matter, even Major Nelson's blog has been infected. There are Sony Radrats there too. Mods are no longer safe, they are now, for the most part turning a blind eye or full on getting into these anti-Xbox conversations.

Good luck, Forum Hunter.

#554 Posted by stereointegrity (10677 posts) -

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos: damn torm you sound mad. We got docs that leaked from sony that says 14+4 cu is a balance now we have a real dev from a real game that it is a 14+4 cu setup why you just can't accept that? I ve been saying from the get go old engines dx 9 dx 10 will not fully use a dx 11.2 arch. New engines won't be brute force it will be about putting the right data in the right place data flow,

The ps3 arch was ahead of its time and MS knew it but they have a stronghold on the industry so the devs went with MS ......so Sony thought this gen was gonna stay with brute force but x1 and dx 12 is about data flow supercomputer ps3 arch.

the leaks themselves were already debunked by cerny...yet u still carry on with this....

#555 Edited by scatteh316 (4735 posts) -

@Tighaman:

The X1 is not close to being similar to the ps3's architecture. Both the ps4 and the X1 are the same, but with different memory setup and GPU. The X1 have smaller GPU since it uses ES ram to help the slow memory bandwidth and that takes up space on the board.

The Ps3 had a powerful CPU that could help the GPU. Now and in the future it is the GPU that will do most of the work, even helping the CPU, and this is how the Ps4 and X1 is developed.

Completely wrong...

#556 Posted by Tighaman (709 posts) -

@stereointegrity: I'm going to explain this again them words are not mines its from a dev that used the system that has a game he made on the ps4 and he said if he could have the whole 18 they would have he said 14+4 setup was easy setup means sony has it that way also if you see the schedualer for the ps4 CU they are using only 14 for graphics stop getting mad you can't say its debunked until someone uses more than 14 cu for graphics

#557 Edited by tormentos (16435 posts) -

@scatteh316 said:

@Martin_G_N said:

@Tighaman:

The X1 is not close to being similar to the ps3's architecture. Both the ps4 and the X1 are the same, but with different memory setup and GPU. The X1 have smaller GPU since it uses ES ram to help the slow memory bandwidth and that takes up space on the board.

The Ps3 had a powerful CPU that could help the GPU. Now and in the future it is the GPU that will do most of the work, even helping the CPU, and this is how the Ps4 and X1 is developed.

Completely wrong...

Why is he wrong.?

@Tighaman said:

@stereointegrity: I'm going to explain this again them words are not mines its from a dev that used the system that has a game he made on the ps4 and he said if he could have the whole 18 they would have he said 14+4 setup was easy setup means sony has it that way also if you see the schedualer for the ps4 CU they are using only 14 for graphics stop getting mad you can't say its debunked until someone uses more than 14 cu for graphics

Digital Foundry: Going back to GPU compute for a moment, I wouldn't call it a rumour - it was more than that. There was a recommendation - a suggestion? - for 14 cores [GPU compute units] allocated to visuals and four to GPU compute...

Mark Cerny: That comes from a leak and is not any form of formal evangelisation.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-face-to-face-with-mark-cerny

The guy who make the hardware say other wise....

And for the 3rd time Link...

Back up what you claim...

By the way 18 or 14+4 the xbox one still has 12,the PS4 with 14 beat the xbox one and still has 400+Gflops of power for Physics and things like that which would look like sh** on xbox one,since the xbox one doesn't have 400Gflops to spare and if MS dare to use 4 CU to counter sony,then you have only 8 CU to render vs the PS4 14.

You see troll no matter what it is a battle the xbox one can't win period.

#558 Posted by LJS9502_basic (149474 posts) -

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos: damn torm you sound mad. We got docs that leaked from sony that says 14+4 cu is a balance now we have a real dev from a real game that it is a 14+4 cu setup why you just can't accept that? I ve been saying from the get go old engines dx 9 dx 10 will not fully use a dx 11.2 arch. New engines won't be brute force it will be about putting the right data in the right place data flow,

The ps3 arch was ahead of its time and MS knew it but they have a stronghold on the industry so the devs went with MS ......so Sony thought this gen was gonna stay with brute force but x1 and dx 12 is about data flow supercomputer ps3 arch.

I hope you don't think MS is doing better than Sony this gen.....because if so dude you need a reality check.

#559 Posted by Tighaman (709 posts) -

@tormentos: damn why i got to be a troll torm? Name calling? You keep going back to the same article, when basically said the same thing but steady denying what hes really trying to tell you, x1 dont need to use CUs for gpgpu 2 cpu compute command blocks and 2 graphic command blocks for gpgpu. The x1 has extra processors for things that the ps4 uses its gpu and cpu for you know offloading.

#560 Posted by Tighaman (709 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic: what we are the 6th month of this gen? We are still using dx9 and dx10 engines on new arch? lets pick this back up in 6 to 7 more months.

#561 Posted by misterpmedia (3362 posts) -

Damn and this topic is still going lol.

#562 Edited by tormentos (16435 posts) -

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos: damn why i got to be a troll torm? Name calling? You keep going back to the same article, when basically said the same thing but steady denying what hes really trying to tell you, x1 dont need to use CUs for gpgpu 2 cpu compute command blocks and 2 graphic command blocks for gpgpu. The x1 has extra processors for things that the ps4 uses its gpu and cpu for you know offloading.

No he say it wasn't period,you can use the hardware as you seen fit.

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

The xbox one does GpGPU with its GPU CU,stop inventing sh**.

The xbox one has 12 CU again,is 1.3 TF the PS4 is 18 Cu 1.84.

For those like you who are severely limited at math, 14 CU > 12 and still the PS4 has 4 more for physics and compute which the xbox one has nothing to counter with,instead of talking gibberish crap why don't you post some link with info proving that the xbox one does GPGPU on 2 compute command blocks.lol

Microsoft's approach to asynchronous GPU compute is somewhat different to Sony's - something we'll track back on at a later date. But essentially, rather than concentrate extensively on raw compute power, their philosophy is that both CPU and GPU need lower latency access to the same memory. Goossen points to the Exemplar skeletal tracking system on Kinect on Xbox 360 as an example for why they took that direction.

"Exemplar ironically doesn't need much ALU. It's much more about the latency you have in terms of memory fetch, so this is kind of a natural evolution for us," he says. "It's like, OK, it's the memory system which is more important for some particular GPGPU workloads."

MS has nothing to counter GPU compute on PS4,in fact MS bet is that having lower latency will help the xbox one with compute rather than having actual CU doing compute..hahahahaa...

Basically what they tell you there is,we have nothing and we are betting the house in lowering latency (which wasn't a great deal to begin with on consoles) to get some compute on the same GPU and CPU..lol

How we count to 15: [we have] eight inside the audio block, four move engines, one video encode, one video decode and one video compositor/resizer.

This are the magical xbox one processors or dsp to run other task.

8 For audio... PS4 has an Audio DSP as well is AMD true Audio by way.

4 move engines. The PS4 2 move engines they are call DME.

1 video encoder- PS4 has 1.

1 Video decoder - The PS4 has 1.

1 Video compositor/resizer (scaler) The PS4 has 1 to.

There is no secrete sauce dude,there is no magical block to handle compute either,the xbox one has only 12 CU in which is runs both graphics and compute.

Offloading theory shutdown,you do know the PS4 has a second CPU for some task as well right.?

@Tighaman said:

@LJS9502_basic: what we are the 6th month of this gen? We are still using dx9 and dx10 engines on new arch? lets pick this back up in 6 to 7 more months.

Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......

The xbox one uses DX11.2 custom version not DX9 or DX 10..lol

#563 Posted by Tighaman (709 posts) -

@tormentos: damn you still sound mad lol go argue with the dev that said 14+4 setup was easy to use I not me so go to japan and you can fight with him.

We wasnt talking about the supposely 15 special processors I said the 2 extra graphic compute commands and the 2 extra cpu compute command its for gpgpu not need to uses the CUs thats used for graphics

That audio chip only has true audio framework aka a wrapper Cerny said you will still would need CPU for some in game sounds.

The ps4 doesnt have a separate processors for video encoding and decoding and still using cpu for resizing and compositing.

The ps4 doesnt have a extra cpu lol stop that but that was funny torm.

I said the engines devs are using are dx 9 dx 10 engines on a system thats fully dx11.2 and dx12 isn't going to get the most out of the system.

Just go read what NVIDIA, AMD doing for the upcoming cards and you tell me who is more inline where the industry is moving to.

#564 Posted by Spartan070 (16307 posts) -

This thread isn't even on life-support, it's amazing really.

#565 Edited by tormentos (16435 posts) -

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos: damn you still sound mad lol go argue with the dev that said 14+4 setup was easy to use I not me so go to japan and you can fight with him.

We wasnt talking about the supposely 15 special processors I said the 2 extra graphic compute commands and the 2 extra cpu compute command its for gpgpu not need to uses the CUs thats used for graphics

That audio chip only has true audio framework aka a wrapper Cerny said you will still would need CPU for some in game sounds.

The ps4 doesnt have a separate processors for video encoding and decoding and still using cpu for resizing and compositing.

The ps4 doesnt have a extra cpu lol stop that but that was funny torm.

I said the engines devs are using are dx 9 dx 10 engines on a system thats fully dx11.2 and dx12 isn't going to get the most out of the system.

Just go read what NVIDIA, AMD doing for the upcoming cards and you tell me who is more inline where the industry is moving to.

1-No mad as all the creator of the hardware say so.

2-The xbox one has nothing of that it has an 8 core CPU with 2 core reserve for system and OS,and a 12 CU GPU with 2% now reserve instead of the normal 8%,the whole reservation for compute the xbox one had was for Kinect it was 10% between system and Kinect and the Kinect portion was drop so yeah i am right and there is nothing to make up for the PS4 CU.

3-No It has a sound DSP which is AMD true Audio and not what cerny talked about was ray tracing for audio which on xbox one would require GPU not CPU resources as well,what Cerny talk about was using the GPU for ray traced audio,oh that on xbox one requires GPU not the wimp audio block which is mostly for Kinect.

4-wrong,wrong,wrong,wrong...

The PS4 has encoder,decoder,and a scaler which resize and compose,in fact the xbox one and PS4 have the same scaler which is GCN based this has been know for endless months,if funny you invest the crappiest theories about the xbox one,and some how want to invalidate things the PS4 has that have been confirmed for more than 1 year..lol

5-Really so the PS4 doesn't have a second CPU.?

There are a number of new ideas we love about the PlayStation 4, revealed for the first time last night. A low-power ARM processor manages PS4 while it's on standby, and freeze-frames current gameplay in memory for instant-on gaming when you power-up. The gameplay streaming/spectating feature is another winner.

Odd isn't it i can swear Mark Cerny showed that on February 2013 presentation,is an ARM one by the way.

6-DX11.2 has been use on launch games like Forza..hahahaaaaaaaaaaa

DX10 or 9 are not been use on xbox one by next gen games from MS..

7-You are the one that should read more,true HSA and hUMA,GpGPU compute,the R290 having 8 Aces and 64 commands like the Ps4..lol

#566 Posted by Tighaman (709 posts) -

@tormentos: you stupid thats not a cpu lol its a arm chip for standby and background task but funny tho again SHAPE has 4DSP cadence cores that handles all in game sound no use for cpu or gpu

Ps4 doesnt have swizzle or jit inside of it but you funny tho

Ps4 doesnt have true audio just a wrapper

#567 Edited by scatteh316 (4735 posts) -

What the fuck are people doing flying this 14+4 bullshit around?

There's no such set up inside PS4, you can not simply reserve 4 CU's for compute, it's impossible, the hardware is not built like that.

You merely feed the GPU with graphics or compute commands and then the GPU's scheduler handles the rest and gives the tasks to whatever CU/'s are free at that moment in time.

It is 100% impossible to hard lock 4 CU's or any number of CU's for that matter for compute only tasks.

#568 Edited by Tighaman (709 posts) -

@scatteh316: im not saying that but the dev from dynasty warrior 8 on giantbomb.com specifically says that 14+4 SETUP was easy to use.

If look at ps4 schedualer CUs for graphics it 14

Cerny says its not a rumor more of the recommendation because the hardware is not 100% round. It seems sony has something in place for that setup and if gpgpu is used as it is in most games and there is no way you can use the whole 18 for just graphics

#569 Posted by tormentos (16435 posts) -

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos: you stupid thats not a cpu lol its a arm chip for standby and background task but funny tho again SHAPE has 4DSP cadence cores that handles all in game sound no use for cpu or gpu

Ps4 doesnt have swizzle or jit inside of it but you funny tho

Ps4 doesnt have true audio just a wrapper

What the fu** does ARM make you moron.? Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

It is a second CPU inside the south bridge..hahaha

Shapes is mostly for Kinect confirmed by Bkillian who worked on the sound block of the xbox one,basically almost all is tied to kinect,and little can be use by developers,to make sounds you don't need an ultra powerful CPU,1 SPE in Cell was enough to handle sound, the PS4 now has a dsp AMD true Audio where ever you want to admit it or not is up to you.

AMD True Audio is like having a damn sound card buffoon,is funny how you want to pretend that the PS4 CPU has to do all by its self,even things that have been know since the hardware was reveal last year.

The PS4 does have.

Encoder decoder.

Scaler

Sound DSP.

DME they are just call DMA.

Briefly, from a console-centric view this isn’t of great surprise. We’ve had every reason to believe that the PS4’s audio DSP would have similar capabilities to TrueAudio given the features and low die space cost of today’s audio DSPs, coupled with Sony’s previous comments on the matter. So from that perspective this isn’t a significant revelation as far as the PS4’s audio capabilities are concerned, but we do finally have a bit more detail on the underlying hardware powering it.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7513/ps4-spec-update-audio-dsp-is-based-on-amds-trueaudio

butbutbut is just a wrapper the PS4 has no true audio hardware...hahahaaaa

bkilian

Unfortunately, Devs only have access to a small part of it. Most of it is reserved for Kinect processing. As a bonus though, it means devs don't have to ask the question "do I have the resources to spare for adding Kinect?" like they did in the last console. Kinect is free(*). _Not_ using it is leaving processing power on the table. I hope this encourages them to be more liberal in their kinect integration this time around.

(*) For certain values of "Kinect". I believe there are some features that devs can hook in to that require memory/processing on their part. Speech is not one of them.

Bragging about shapes is silly it was mostly for Kinect that is the way MS build the console,they didn't need and ultra powerful sound block to runs sounds,but better voice recognition yes they did...

lol Here comes the jit..hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Face it 1.84 vs 1.3 there is no DX that can save the xbox one or secret sauce either..lol

#570 Posted by Heil68 (42609 posts) -

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos: you stupid thats not a cpu lol its a arm chip for standby and background task but funny tho again SHAPE has 4DSP cadence cores that handles all in game sound no use for cpu or gpu

Ps4 doesnt have swizzle or jit inside of it but you funny tho

Ps4 doesnt have true audio just a wrapper

So even you admit the PS4 is the world's most powerful video game console to have ever been created in the history of video games. Nice!

#571 Posted by tormentos (16435 posts) -

What the fuck are people doing flying this 14+4 bullshit around?

There's no such set up inside PS4, you can not simply reserve 4 CU's for compute, it's impossible, the hardware is not built like that.

You merely feed the GPU with graphics or compute commands and then the GPU's scheduler handles the rest and gives the tasks to whatever CU/'s are free at that moment in time.

It is 100% impossible to hard lock 4 CU's or any number of CU's for that matter for compute only tasks.

The PS4 hardware was modify,but in a miss understood leak it was claim that the PS4 was split between 14+4.

What sony did how ever is increase the Aces and commands,also run both at one without 1 hurting the other.

In GPU there are many holes where performance is loss.

"If you look at the portion of the GPU available to compute throughout the frame, it varies dramatically from instant to instant. For example, something like opaque shadow map rendering doesn't even use a pixel shader, it’s entirely done by vertex shaders and the rasterization hardware -- so graphics aren't using most of the 1.8 teraflops of ALU available in the CUs. Times like that during the game frame are an opportunity to say, 'Okay, all that compute you wanted to do, turn it up to 11 now.'"

Is more about filling those holes and taking advantage of every drop of GPU performance.

Look how he talks about not using the full 1.8 TF,and not saying the full 1.4 Tf,that is something some fanboys here completely want to ignore @Tighaman been one of them.

Because he believe that if the PS4 is split between 14+4 that means those 4 other CU disappear or something like that..lol

#572 Edited by BattleSpectre (5952 posts) -

It's simple DX12 WILL improve the performance of the Xbox One, but it will NOT double it's power... I don't get what's so hard to grasp here?

#573 Posted by Tighaman (709 posts) -

@tormentos: damn he mad lol come talk to me when done letting bloggers and these so called game journalist word play you because it seems that you cant read through the lines if you have girlfriend or boyfriend no way in hell you could be the brains. You sound like you are guilible than a mf.

#574 Edited by tormentos (16435 posts) -

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos: damn he mad lol come talk to me when done letting bloggers and these so called game journalist word play you because it seems that you cant read through the lines if you have girlfriend or boyfriend no way in hell you could be the brains. You sound like you are guilible than a mf.

Yeah we only should listen to you and your crappy ass theories which you don't even back up..hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Any more secret sauce you want to share.? Hahahahaaaaaaaaa

Maybe the 4TF dual apu or hidden DGPU..hahahaha

#575 Posted by ttboy (225 posts) -

It's simple DX12 WILL improve the performance of the Xbox One, but it will NOT double it's power... I don't get what's so hard to grasp here?

It seems it will double its efficiency. So we should not believe an actual Dev and believe system wars lurkers. Hmmm hard choice.

#576 Posted by Tighaman (709 posts) -

@tormentos: that copy and paste shit you doing is not back up a bunch of misinformation a sony pimp words that yall continue to listen to. Everything i suspected is happening Im playing the lastest from both systems, I got devs as friends and im studing to be a game developer i see that the industry movements way before you do and you are still gddr5 for gpu and we on stacked embedded ram on a gpu, you are still on ROPs and we are on shader compute, different processors each with different task to help the cpu and gpu not gpu helping the cpu and vise versa.

#577 Edited by Rocky_Denace (143 posts) -

The only reason this thread still exist is because it's saturated with rabid PS fanboys that spu heavily favored PS nonsense and the mods on GS are clearly no question about it pro PS so they let heavily favored PS nonsense go on far longer then X1 talk. It's just that simple.

Sadly biased and an unfair playground for X1 fans for sure.

Oh and by the way deal with it DX12>>>

#578 Edited by blackace (19718 posts) -

Greatness is coming. LOL!!

#579 Edited by tormentos (16435 posts) -

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos: that copy and paste shit you doing is not back up a bunch of misinformation a sony pimp words that yall continue to listen to. Everything i suspected is happening Im playing the lastest from both systems, I got devs as friends and im studing to be a game developer i see that the industry movements way before you do and you are still gddr5 for gpu and we on stacked embedded ram on a gpu, you are still on ROPs and we are on shader compute, different processors each with different task to help the cpu and gpu not gpu helping the cpu and vise versa.

So when sony say something is missinformation,but when MS say it is 100% truth..hahaha

hahahahaaaaaaaaaaa what a load of bullsh** and crap you pull boy..

Really so show me what the fu** staked embedded ram had to do with the xbox one.? don't tell me you want to pretend now that the xbox one anything even close to stacked ram..hahahahaaaaa

The xbox one has ESRAM on the same die,not stacked..

Is shader compute a replacement for ROP.WTF since when?

Shader compute is supported on Opengl 4.3 the PS4 support all those features and beyond 4.4...

See you make sh** up all the time,not a single link just your biased ass opinion you are a joke..lol

http://wili.cc/blog/opengl-cs.html

Since 2012...lol

#580 Edited by tormentos (16435 posts) -
@ttboy said:

@BattleSpectre said:

It's simple DX12 WILL improve the performance of the Xbox One, but it will NOT double it's power... I don't get what's so hard to grasp here?

It seems it will double its efficiency. So we should not believe an actual Dev and believe system wars lurkers. Hmmm hard choice.

Oh please it was a demo on PC with nothing going on,why didn't they show the so call gains on xbox one.? Oh because the xbox one already is taking advantage of several DX12 features and still it was behind,oh but wait the xbox one since launch had less over head on its CPU than PC yeah it is do to having enclosed hardware which doesn't require legacy with other GPU and CPU.

Several developers also doubt it,including one from Activision..lol

@rocky_denace

The only reason this thread still exist is because it's saturated with rabid PS fanboys that spu heavily favored PS nonsense and the mods on GS are clearly no question about it pro PS so they let heavily favored PS nonsense go on far longer then X1 talk. It's just that simple.

Sadly biased and an unfair playground for X1 fans for sure.

Oh and by the way deal with it DX12>>>

Actually most s here are either roots with the xbox brand or hermits..

You say it right DX12 >>>.

It owns nothing ..hahaha

@blackace

Greatness is coming. LOL!!

Yeah just wait for E3 2019 then the xbox one will deliver..hahaha

#581 Edited by Rocky_Denace (143 posts) -

@ttboy said:

@BattleSpectre said:

It's simple DX12 WILL improve the performance of the Xbox One, but it will NOT double it's power... I don't get what's so hard to grasp here?

It seems it will double its efficiency. So we should not believe an actual Dev and believe system wars lurkers. Hmmm hard choice.

Oh please it was a demo on PC with nothing going on,why didn't they show the so call gains on xbox one.? Oh because the xbox one already is taking advantage of several DX12 features and still it was behind,oh but wait the xbox one since launch had less over head on its CPU than PC yeah it is do to having enclosed hardware which doesn't require legacy with other GPU and CPU.

Several developers also doubt it,including one from Activision..lol

@rocky_denace

The only reason this thread still exist is because it's saturated with rabid PS fanboys that spu heavily favored PS nonsense and the mods on GS are clearly no question about it pro PS so they let heavily favored PS nonsense go on far longer then X1 talk. It's just that simple.

Sadly biased and an unfair playground for X1 fans for sure.

Oh and by the way deal with it DX12>>>

Actually most s here are either roots with the xbox brand or hermits..

You say it right DX12 >>>.

It owns nothing ..hahaha

@blackace

Greatness is coming. LOL!!

Yeah just wait for E3 2019 then the xbox one will deliver..hahaha

Tormentos you are the most owned troll on this sight you get owned left and right on a daily basis. So it's no wonder you would even dare to reference Activision as an example this makes me LMFAO!!! This is the same company that has been using the quake 3 engine for over 10+ years for COD games yet you want to use them as graphic innovators and a base of knowledge pushing the graphics envelope? LMFAO!!! Just Tormentos getting daily ownage as normal. Your clueless bra

#582 Posted by FastRobby (770 posts) -

Tormentos doesn't know anything, he was saying the cloud gaming wasn't possible, and that when Microsoft showed it, the server was in the other room (which could be the case, he doesn't know, he just makes shit up), and in real-life it isn't possible. But AMD also did tests, and also concluded that it is indeed possible.

Cloud Gaming AMD

#583 Edited by lostrib (31520 posts) -

The only reason this thread still exist is because it's saturated with rabid PS fanboys that spu heavily favored PS nonsense and the mods on GS are clearly no question about it pro PS so they let heavily favored PS nonsense go on far longer then X1 talk. It's just that simple.

Sadly biased and an unfair playground for X1 fans for sure.

Oh and by the way deal with it DX12>>>

and because you keep coming back to have meltdowns

#584 Posted by tormentos (16435 posts) -

Tormentos doesn't know anything, he was saying the cloud gaming wasn't possible, and that when Microsoft showed it, the server was in the other room (which could be the case, he doesn't know, he just makes shit up), and in real-life it isn't possible. But AMD also did tests, and also concluded that it is indeed possible.

Cloud Gaming AMD

Oh cloud gaming is possible there was onlive but onlive wasn't anything of what MS claimed,maybe you can run Candy Crush you know since there is no need for constant updates or anything of that sort..lol

Tormentos you are the most owned troll on this sight you get owned left and right on a daily basis. So it's no wonder you would even dare to reference Activision as an example this makes me LMFAO!!! This is the same company that has been using the quake 3 engine for over 10+ years for COD games yet you want to use them as graphic innovators and a base of knowledge pushing the graphics envelope? LMFAO!!! Just Tormentos getting daily ownage as normal. Your clueless bra

Yes because the source engine Respawn used on Titanfall was created 3 month ago right.?

So since i corner you with a credible developer which has always develop the superior version of their games on 360,now all of the sudden is bad because it refuses to believe what ever crap MS claim..lol

Is so sad that you will not be here to see the xbox one get own all generation long,quoting you and making fun of you would have been so great...hahaha

#585 Posted by Tighaman (709 posts) -

@tormentos: and all you do is bring up old links like tech moves backwards i dont copy and paste be cause i want my reader to read farther than my post or link i have read everything thats possible about the ps4 for from the old stuff to the new the good and bad. Can you say the same about the x1, oban, getting 700gb bw with ddr3, you got your thoughts and theories and i have my information well really you only copy and paste so they not your thoughts, but hey at last ps home has a kiss and hug feature now you can copy and paste your genitals to the tv.

#586 Edited by blackace (19718 posts) -

Tormentos doesn't know anything, he was saying the cloud gaming wasn't possible, and that when Microsoft showed it, the server was in the other room (which could be the case, he doesn't know, he just makes shit up), and in real-life it isn't possible. But AMD also did tests, and also concluded that it is indeed possible.

Cloud Gaming AMD

He said the XB1 couldn't sell 1 million units in 24hrs after it launched. Once the XB1 did in fact sell 1 million in 24hrs, he tried to damage control it and say it wasn't just in the US, but included the UK sales as well. The PS4 did it in the US alone. LMAO!! Who cares how many regions it was in? It still sold 1 million units in 24hrs and that was with a higher price and tons of negative hype from biased trolls everywhere.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-one-sells-over-1-million-consoles-in-24-hours/1100-6416349/

Cows will never admit when they are wrong about something. They'll damage control it to their graves. lol!!

#587 Edited by FastRobby (770 posts) -

@FastRobby said:

Tormentos doesn't know anything, he was saying the cloud gaming wasn't possible, and that when Microsoft showed it, the server was in the other room (which could be the case, he doesn't know, he just makes shit up), and in real-life it isn't possible. But AMD also did tests, and also concluded that it is indeed possible.

Cloud Gaming AMD

Oh cloud gaming is possible there was onlive but onlive wasn't anything of what MS claimed,maybe you can run Candy Crush you know since there is no need for constant updates or anything of that sort..lol

I made a mistake, I mixed cloud gaming with computing. That was an error, but I've got other things to throw at you! :)

The video of Microsoft at BUILD showing the cloud computing. You thought the server was in the next room, do you have any proof of that? Because they said they were using Azure's Cloud Servers. Which would imply one of their serverfarms.

#588 Posted by Rocky_Denace (143 posts) -

@tormentos said:
@FastRobby said:

Tormentos doesn't know anything, he was saying the cloud gaming wasn't possible, and that when Microsoft showed it, the server was in the other room (which could be the case, he doesn't know, he just makes shit up), and in real-life it isn't possible. But AMD also did tests, and also concluded that it is indeed possible.

Cloud Gaming AMD

Oh cloud gaming is possible there was onlive but onlive wasn't anything of what MS claimed,maybe you can run Candy Crush you know since there is no need for constant updates or anything of that sort..lol

I made a mistake, I mixed cloud gaming with computing. That was an error, but I've got other things to throw at you! :)

The video of Microsoft at BUILD showing the cloud computing. You thought the server was in the next room, do you have any proof of that? Because they said they were using Azure's Cloud Servers. Which would imply one of their serverfarms.

Lets Show Ownmento's what MS Azure really is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ44hEr5DFE

#589 Posted by scatteh316 (4735 posts) -

@Tighaman: You can use the whole 18 GUy's for graphics and no the scheduler in PS4's GPU is not split.

#590 Edited by Gue1 (9116 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:
@ActicEdge said:

If all it took was software to double your GPU speed, there would be far less hardware growth than their currently is. This is obviously a silly quote. That said, all the people here arguing to know Computer Engineering, Software Engineering, Hardware Coding, shut up. Quoting a bunch of powerpoints you don't understand and a bunch of shit out of context does not make you seem smart or knowledgeable.

The context for the 2X is made with Star swarm's requirements and may not be applicable for other titles.

For Xbox One, it's Direct3D/driver stack wasn't multi-threaded friendly for multiple CPU cores. This is similar with AMD's Direct3D 11.0 implementation on the PC. The blame is AMD and they just got their multi-threading render capabilities with Mantle era drivers. It's better late than never.

Direct3D 11.0's multi-threading rendering at the driver level is optional, hence AMD ignored it and it doesn't fall into DirectX's Feature Level. AMD didn't ignore Direct3D's Feature Levels e.g. 11_0, 11_1.

On the PC, using Intel CPU with industry's best IPC(instruction per cycle) designs minimises AMD's MRT driver issue. AMD's GPU marketing department uses high-end Intel CPUs for their GPUs e.g. AMD's latest FirePro W9100 (recycled R9-290X with full featured 64bit FP math enabled) workstation reference uses Intel's latest Xeon CPUs.

I program C++ for a living.

@StormyJoe said:
@ActicEdge said:

If all it took was software to double your GPU speed, there would be far less hardware growth than their currently is. This is obviously a silly quote. That said, all the people here arguing to know Computer Engineering, Software Engineering, Hardware Coding, shut up. Quoting a bunch of powerpoints you don't understand and a bunch of shit out of context does not make you seem smart or knowledgeable.

Really...

Improving API performance improves software performance, It is a fact, not an opinion.

Large improvements for AMD CPU users which is important for IPC weak**/small core CPU designs e.g. AMD Jaguar.

**Relative to Intel Core series CPUs but not against ARM CPUs.

@MK-Professor said:
@rocky_denace said:
@MK-Professor said:

DX12 will only help to eliminate the cpu bottleneck just like Mantle, so no performance improvement on GPU side for PC. Now for the xbox1, DX12 will make not difference.

First off I can't believe this thread is still going such ass clowns in here with no experience with any of this yet acting like the are rocket scientist.

Listen bra first off the CPU in the X1 is not a bottleneck in fact it's faster then the Cpu in the PS4 it's clocked higher. And yes DX12 will help CPU for sure but what you clearly don't understand is DX12 will make GPU's run much more efficient and allow GPU's to use their CU's more efficiently. This has already been confirmed by MS, AMD, Intel, Nvidia and a respected developer who is currently working with the DX12 API. So please stop with your wishful butthurt thinking because you are flat out wrong and have no experience with this once so ever.

U Mad Bra

First of all you didn't even read my post, I never said it is a bottleneck for xbox1, I was talking about pc. Also the performance advantages the DX12 will bring on the GPU side will be next to nothing. Funny how you're telling me that i have no experience here, When I am probably the only guy here that have knowledge in programing for DX9, DX11 and HLSL.

Note that CPU drives the GPU.

I program C#, Linq, Transact, Razor, HTML with CSS on MVC 5 for 8 hours from monday to friday for a living but half the time I have no idea what you're talking about.

#591 Posted by Tighaman (709 posts) -

@scatteh316: i never said you couldnt i said the dev who made dynasty warriors 8 said that the 14+4 on the ps4 was easy to use

The schedualer that sony showed CU for gfx was 14 I didnt say this

If you are using gpgpu on the ps4 only 14 will be used for gfx because it takes cu to utirize gpgpu on the system that what i said

#592 Edited by Rocky_Denace (143 posts) -

In theory you could use 18cu's but the reality is the ideal setup is 14-4 because mainly 4cu are used for the PS4 OS and basically in 99.9% of cases you want to keep the OS stable. You will not likely see any 18cu games and even if you did it would have to be something out of the ordinary because the slow clocked CPU in the PS4 is the real bottleneck so most developers wont even try to use all 18cu's because they know it would only be bottlenecked by the CPU and leave the OS entirely unstable.

#593 Posted by scatteh316 (4735 posts) -

@Tighaman said:

@scatteh316: i never said you couldnt i said the dev who made dynasty warriors 8 said that the 14+4 on the ps4 was easy to use

The schedualer that sony showed CU for gfx was 14 I didnt say this

If you are using gpgpu on the ps4 only 14 will be used for gfx because it takes cu to utirize gpgpu on the system that what i said

That was just a system diagram Sony used to make explaining it easier for people who are less technically inclined, obviously it wasn't simple enough.

The scheduler is not split, this is evident in the die shots of the APU.

And as I've already said, you can't use 14 CU's for graphics, it's IMPOSSIBLE.... You can't section the CU's off like that in software or hardware.

The API will simply send the graphics or compute work to whatever CU is free at that moment in time.

PS4 doesn't have to use 4 CU for GPGPU, they can use as many CU's as they want at the expense of graphics as more CU's will spend time doing GPGPU instead of graphics, or they can use all 18 CU's for graphics.... It's up the developer how they want to allocate the work load.

#594 Posted by ttboy (225 posts) -

@Tighaman: You can use the whole 18 GUy's for graphics and no the scheduler in PS4's GPU is not split.

Thats true.

#595 Posted by Tighaman (709 posts) -

@scatteh316: but y are you discussing that to me? Shouldn't you be questioning the dev who made the statement go ask him to explain and debunk him by telling him you cant do that on a system that you never developed for. I cant take your word over his if you never developed for the ps4 and he has. Im going to always go with the person thats closest to the info but i understand what you are saying about the CUs and for a pc gpu thats correct.

#596 Posted by tormentos (16435 posts) -

@Tighaman said:

@tormentos: and all you do is bring up old links like tech moves backwards i dont copy and paste be cause i want my reader to read farther than my post or link i have read everything thats possible about the ps4 for from the old stuff to the new the good and bad. Can you say the same about the x1, oban, getting 700gb bw with ddr3, you got your thoughts and theories and i have my information well really you only copy and paste so they not your thoughts, but hey at last ps home has a kiss and hug feature now you can copy and paste your genitals to the tv.

Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....

I have my sources to and next year when sony turn on compute and use all its 64 commands the PS4 will be able to increase its bandwidth to 1TB,since it will run compute and graphics at the same time it will be like running 2 GPU at the same time making it 3.6TF...Just wait...

@blackace said:

He said the XB1 couldn't sell 1 million units in 24hrs after it launched. Once the XB1 did in fact sell 1 million in 24hrs, he tried to damage control it and say it wasn't just in the US, but included the UK sales as well. The PS4 did it in the US alone. LMAO!! Who cares how many regions it was in? It still sold 1 million units in 24hrs and that was with a higher price and tons of negative hype from biased trolls everywhere.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-one-sells-over-1-million-consoles-in-24-hours/1100-6416349/

Cows will never admit when they are wrong about something. They'll damage control it to their graves. lol!!

Oh you mean when MS shipped 1 million units and before 24 hours they were already claiming 24 hours sales.?

Oh do you remember how for the next few days reports were coming in from unsold xbox one stocks.?

How many weeks day 1 edition consoles lasted.?

Last i remember in early January MS was selling them on Ebay....hahahaha without making much noise,tons of day 1 consoles unsold..hahahaha

It took MS 13 countries to try to do what Sony did in 24 hours,and they failed..hahahaha

Funny enough you didn't claim shipped when they sold that million units..hahahaha

I made a mistake, I mixed cloud gaming with computing. That was an error, but I've got other things to throw at you! :)

The video of Microsoft at BUILD showing the cloud computing. You thought the server was in the next room, do you have any proof of that? Because they said they were using Azure's Cloud Servers. Which would imply one of their serverfarms.

Cloud computing is very real,is just not what MS was claiming.

You don't get it you can't use the internet to increase power of a GPU period it doesn't work that way,because GPU require extremely fast bandwidth which internet connection lack.

MS claimed that it would make the xbox one 4 times are powerful with the cloud which is a total joke.

In fact i never say anything about servers been on another room so you have me confuse..

Lets Show Ownmento's what MS Azure really is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ44hEr5DFE

Oh brother if you only had a clue...hahahaaa

@Tighaman said:

@scatteh316: i never said you couldnt i said the dev who made dynasty warriors 8 said that the 14+4 on the ps4 was easy to use

The schedualer that sony showed CU for gfx was 14 I didnt say this

If you are using gpgpu on the ps4 only 14 will be used for gfx because it takes cu to utirize gpgpu on the system that what i said

Claim you refuse to back up,i can claim here that developer say MS console is sh** and will never improve,but without backup it is nothing..

No and for the 100 time no the PS4 has 18 CU and can use all 18 as developers want..haha

Considering that you just made up that the xbox one will get 700gb/s bandwidth anything you claim from now on should be take as complete and utter bullsh**..

#597 Edited by tormentos (16435 posts) -

In theory you could use 18cu's but the reality is the ideal setup is 14-4 because mainly 4cu are used for the PS4 OS and basically in 99.9% of cases you want to keep the OS stable. You will not likely see any 18cu games and even if you did it would have to be something out of the ordinary because the slow clocked CPU in the PS4 is the real bottleneck so most developers wont even try to use all 18cu's because they know it would only be bottlenecked by the CPU and leave the OS entirely unstable.

Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....

No NO wait wait...hahahahhaaaaaaa

From where in fu**ing hell did you pull that the PS4 uses 4 CU for OS.? Since when OS run on GPU.?

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

Butbut the CPU is the bottle neck..hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

The PS4 has 2 core of its CPU for OS and system,just like the damn xbox one the different is the PS4 runs 1 the xbox one runs 3,requiring more resources outside CPU..

You people really make my day you come and accuse me of been owned all day,but then you claim out of no where that the PS4 OS runs on the GPU..hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Is like DAAAAAAAMNNNN your a dumb as fu**...hahahahaha

@Tighaman said:

@scatteh316: but y are you discussing that to me? Shouldn't you be questioning the dev who made the statement go ask him to explain and debunk him by telling him you cant do that on a system that you never developed for. I cant take your word over his if you never developed for the ps4 and he has. Im going to always go with the person thats closest to the info but i understand what you are saying about the CUs and for a pc gpu thats correct.

What developer as far as i know that claim was made by you,i never seen such a claim from that developer..lol

#598 Posted by Tighaman (709 posts) -

@tormentos: giantbomb.com go look for yourself and stop commenting go read.

#599 Posted by hoosier7 (3669 posts) -

Eurgh this thread is still going? How long until this gets chalked off as a reason for the X1 to exceed the PS4? Tiled resources is gone as the PS4 is doing that now, the same with the DX12 multi-core threading, the ESRAM as a benefit and layered GPU was BS and we've all seen the cloud for what it is. What's left?

#600 Edited by Rocky_Denace (143 posts) -

Sony fans I would imagine you don't recognize Tormento's as part of your faction every faction has a bad seed and I imagine you guys must even laugh at him yourselves.

Tormento's you are the most clueless troll I've ever seen it's like you just walked off the Jerry's kids special olympics or something?