Console Peeps: why dismiss entire genres?

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#151 Edited by commonfate (12491 posts) -

@X_CAPCOM_X said:

@AdrianWerner said:

@X_CAPCOM_X said:

That's a lot of money, however a handful of fighting games and other RTS's such as starcraft deserve more prize money in their respective toruneys simply off of game design principles and the amount of discipline required imo.

Not really. MOBAs tourneys deserve that money far more.

Any game where grinding is a requirement is automatically disqualified from that statement - the amount of time you play shouldn't directly improve your chances of winning. Only tedious practice should win a game.

There is no grinding in Dota. Team fights can and often do happen at early levels (especially in higher levels of play). Even as low as a level one Rosh attempt.

#152 Posted by rosko123 (533 posts) -

Who says it's just console gamers that don't like all types of games. I have both and like what I like.... In the same way some PC exclusive gamers might not like RTS & MMO games.

#153 Edited by commonfate (12491 posts) -

@FireEmblem_Man said:

@Motokid6 said:

@ladyblue said:

@wis3boi said:

show me all those cool mobas and rts games on console....wait....

Completely forgot you can't own/play a pc game if you already own a console(or vice versa).

How silly of me...

The chances of a console-primary gamer owning a gaming pc are slim to none. The chances of a pc gamer owning a console? very high.

Your logic is flawed... I was once a primary console gamer, owning all consoles last gen until I realized that an Xbox and Playstation are nothing more than a watered down PC that share a lot of third party games that I was once interested and was turned off by fanboy wars of the two. PC gaming has changed my gaming life and I have a better LTD solution of playing the games I want.

That's kind of his point. Most people who have capable gaming PCs don't see them as secondary system to a PS3 or a 360. It's rather that most PC gamers consider consoles to be secondary systems.

#154 Posted by X_CAPCOM_X (6315 posts) -

@jg4xchamp said:

@X_CAPCOM_X said:

@AdrianWerner said:

@X_CAPCOM_X said:

That's a lot of money, however a handful of fighting games and other RTS's such as starcraft deserve more prize money in their respective toruneys simply off of game design principles and the amount of discipline required imo.

Not really. MOBAs tourneys deserve that money far more.

Any game where grinding is a requirement is automatically disqualified from that statement - the amount of time you play shouldn't directly improve your chances of winning. Only tedious practice should win a game.

So you're ignorant about Dota, nice.

I stand corrected about this matter, however my initial statement stands.

#155 Posted by AdrianWerner (28064 posts) -

@X_CAPCOM_X said:

I stand corrected about this matter, however my initial statement stands.

Your initial statement is bassicaly "I like X more, so X should get more money". By any objective criterias MOBAs making more money on esports than RTS or fighters makes perfect sense.

#156 Posted by AdrianWerner (28064 posts) -

@rosko123 said:

Who says it's just console gamers that don't like all types of games. I have both and like what I like.... In the same way some PC exclusive gamers might not like RTS & MMO games.

I think it wasn't about not liking a genre, but claiming it's irrelevant on SW because you don't like it.

#157 Posted by Mr_Huggles_dog (1405 posts) -

@jg4xchamp: I don't know you and don't know how obnoxious you are or even if you really are but I'm not reading a post that is half self indulgent.

You can hate me now.

#158 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72951 posts) -

@jg4xchamp said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jg4xchamp said:
@The_Last_Ride said:

so you say there are no RPG's, no puzzle, rythm, fighting, platformers, MOBA's, Stealth, Horror, Survival, Sport, etc games?

What?

the OP says that consoles don't have any of the genre's i posted.

There is no way anyone who has a basic understanding of english, could get that from the op. Try again. :/

Well you didn't mention any of the genre's i mentioned and that was wrong on your part tbh

#159 Edited by jg4xchamp (48695 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

Well you didn't mention any of the genre's i mentioned and that was wrong on your part tbh

"When it comes to the usual console vs PC garbage of PC gamers being elitist dick twinkies (lets be real: you are), and console fans being ignorant bitch muffins (lets be real: you are): when all else fails the console fans will go to the age ol "the only exclusives the PC gets are RTS games, Mobas, MMO's, point and clicks" and it's like...the PC guys never need to actually diss your exclusives this way.

In contrast the PC guys don't need to point out the disgusting majority of Playstation/Xbox exclusives fall into action games or racing games. Yes every now and then exceptions like Viva Pinata and Valkyria Chronicles happen. But otherwise it's a whole lot of shooting dudes in the face and vrom vrom, extra lap. With no disrespect intended to a terrific game like The Last of Us or....well no, just The Last of Us."

Because again, if you comprehended what was written there wouldn't be much of an issue. I am saying that console peeps love dismissing a large portion of the PC's exclusives, because they fit specific genres. Yet in contrast the PC guys don't need, and flat out don't dismiss the console exclusives as "oh all the Playstation and Xbox" get are action games. Which yes the majority of their exclusives would fall into similar genres, with "every now and then exceptions like Valkyria and Viva Pinata". That is not a failure on my part, but on the reader for not being able to grasp the argument. At no point in the OP did I say the consoles don't get those type of games at all. Their exclusives lineup however, a majority of it does fit a certain billing.

The only failure on the writers part in this thread is the complete disrespect for the English language with the shit load of comma splices, run on sentences, and disregard for what an actual sentence is.

#160 Edited by jg4xchamp (48695 posts) -

@AdrianWerner said:

@rosko123 said:

Who says it's just console gamers that don't like all types of games. I have both and like what I like.... In the same way some PC exclusive gamers might not like RTS & MMO games.

I think it wasn't about not liking a genre, but claiming it's irrelevant on SW because you don't like it.

Bingo. Why should the PC guys apologize for getting games in a certain genre often, when the console exclusive genres aren't exactly a beacon of diversity?

#161 Edited by dave123321 (34196 posts) -

@freedomfreak: saying freedom freak said

#162 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72951 posts) -

@jg4xchamp: PS4 still manages to get exclusive deals with indies, which some also end up on the pc aswell. I would count in those aswell

#163 Posted by jg4xchamp (48695 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jg4xchamp: PS4 still manages to get exclusive deals with indies, which some also end up on the pc aswell. I would count in those aswell

Why would I count multiplats in a discussion about exclusives?

Also "every now and then there are exceptions". Again your fault for not being able to follow along.

#164 Posted by Eikichi-Onizuka (8053 posts) -

I'm not big on RTS but like some(Total War series, Company of Heroes). I prefer turn-based(many being on PC such as Heroes III and Civilization).

I don't play MMOs, I'm not into subs for a single game so I never played a premium one. The free ones I've tried seem okay but were either P2W or just too much of a time sink that takes away time from games I bought and paid for.

I intend to try a MOBA one of these days but haven't gotten around to it yet.

I've played plenty of point n' clicks: Quest for Glory, Gabriel Knight, Laura Bow, Broken Sword, etc.

#165 Edited by uninspiredcup (9631 posts) -

@santoron said:

I know PC gamers that won't touch an MMO or RTS, and console gamers that hate FPSes and platformers.

True. Shogun 2's multiplayer is dead. I'd much rather play a big ass 6 man battle with thousands of troops and hundreds of possibilities and outcomes rather than, for example, running around a tiny Call Or Duty level shooting people while a 14 year old boys shout rubbish like they think the game requires tactics.

#166 Posted by illmatic87 (15343 posts) -

Bravo champ. Godly thread.

#167 Posted by SambaLele (5424 posts) -

@jg4xchamp said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

Well you didn't mention any of the genre's i mentioned and that was wrong on your part tbh

"When it comes to the usual console vs PC garbage of PC gamers being elitist dick twinkies (lets be real: you are), and console fans being ignorant bitch muffins (lets be real: you are): when all else fails the console fans will go to the age ol "the only exclusives the PC gets are RTS games, Mobas, MMO's, point and clicks" and it's like...the PC guys never need to actually diss your exclusives this way.

In contrast the PC guys don't need to point out the disgusting majority of Playstation/Xbox exclusives fall into action games or racing games. Yes every now and then exceptions like Viva Pinata and Valkyria Chronicles happen. But otherwise it's a whole lot of shooting dudes in the face and vrom vrom, extra lap. With no disrespect intended to a terrific game like The Last of Us or....well no, just The Last of Us."

Because again, if you comprehended what was written there wouldn't be much of an issue. I am saying that console peeps love dismissing a large portion of the PC's exclusives, because they fit specific genres. Yet in contrast the PC guys don't need, and flat out don't dismiss the console exclusives as "oh all the Playstation and Xbox" get are action games. Which yes the majority of their exclusives would fall into similar genres, with "every now and then exceptions like Valkyria and Viva Pinata". That is not a failure on my part, but on the reader for not being able to grasp the argument. At no point in the OP did I say the consoles don't get those type of games at all. Their exclusives lineup however, a majority of it does fit a certain billing.

The only failure on the writers part in this thread is the complete disrespect for the English language with the shit load of comma splices, run on sentences, and disregard for what an actual sentence is.

Don't need?

#168 Edited by Large_Soda (8612 posts) -

I play games. Period. I don't care about what platform they are on because I'm not a piece of shit.

#169 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72951 posts) -

@jg4xchamp said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jg4xchamp: PS4 still manages to get exclusive deals with indies, which some also end up on the pc aswell. I would count in those aswell

Why would I count multiplats in a discussion about exclusives?

Also "every now and then there are exceptions". Again your fault for not being able to follow along.

IT's true they are multiplats, but they still get to be on the PS4 for example. Not all of the so called exclusives fall into the category of Action games

#170 Posted by Cobra_nVidia (1617 posts) -

Consolite "elistists" wouldn't act that way if they did have major cognitive problems.

In fact, it isn't just PC-centric genres they ignore - it's actually the fact they ignore console-centre genres that makes them appear stupid. But since they can't embrace games that consoles actually do well without abandoning the whole "we have the GOTYs" argument (since these games don't have enough cutscenes to merit a GOTY) they chose not to.

I have an XBOX, XBOX 360, and PS3 (and vita) and I only own one GOTY - Gears of War. It isn't a very good game, and I certainly wouldn't buy a game because a reviewer claims they enjoyed it slightly more than other console games...for a couple hours. I own consoles for the Driving and Fighting games and some JRPGs.

#171 Posted by jg4xchamp (48695 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jg4xchamp said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jg4xchamp: PS4 still manages to get exclusive deals with indies, which some also end up on the pc aswell. I would count in those aswell

Why would I count multiplats in a discussion about exclusives?

Also "every now and then there are exceptions". Again your fault for not being able to follow along.

IT's true they are multiplats, but they still get to be on the PS4 for example. Not all of the so called exclusives fall into the category of Action games

"majority"

"exceptions"

I used my words correctly, and not speaking in absolutes. And again exclusives are exclusives. Multiplats are not exclusives in a conversation about dismissing exclusives based on genre. So there you go. Again None of this is on me.

#172 Edited by Zen_Light (1297 posts) -

@Large_Soda said:

I play games. Period. I don't care about what platform they are on because I'm not a piece of shit.

This. You don't have to have an expensive gaming rig to enjoy a lot of PC games both new and old. I hate how a lot of hermits look down on their own kind for not buying high end. I also hate console gamers who fight over graphics.

#173 Edited by psx_warrior (1567 posts) -

@Wasdie: Well said, Wasdie, well said.

I should add, too, that the PC crowd is constantly dogging the health regeneration, analog aiming, etc., etc., and so on. Makes me wonder if they have ever even played a Halo game on xbox. I've found that the analog aiming in the Halo games to be the most fluid and accurate I've ever felt in a console FPS. Crysis on PS3 and 360 feel very stiff, but Halo series feels so fluid by comparison. CoD feels pretty good too despite aim assist. My two cents.

#174 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (14527 posts) -

I'l tell you why I dismiss entire genres.... Because RPGs suck donley balls, thats why !

And what do you mean depth ? Look I'm not a PC Gamer anymore but in my experience PC Gamers are the worst offenders of cunfsusing Complexity with Depth.

Any way I recently took interest in strategy games but I hate the turn base bullsh!t.... I want something in Real Time....

#175 Posted by CrownKingArthur (5070 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: supreme commander, have you played a game called 'supreme commander'?

#176 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (14527 posts) -

@CrownKingArthur

Yeah I've heard of it.... Does it have co-op ? :D

#177 Posted by CrownKingArthur (5070 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: coop campaign? i don't think so, no.

but you can do a skirmish on a lan, or the intermanets, and have teams of humans, computers, mixed, whatever. well anyway i very highly recommend supreme commander. its usually very cheap too, even with forged alliance.

have you played/enjoyed many rts? if yes, which ones?

#178 Edited by Minishdriveby (10117 posts) -

@jg4xchamp: Have you ever watched Adams Æbler or De grønne slagtere? I'm just asking because of the Mads Mikkelsen avatar; I've been meaning to ask for awhile.

#179 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (14527 posts) -

@CrownKingArthur

Does Black & White count ? ;)

#180 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72951 posts) -

@jg4xchamp: ok, so you say there are mainly actions games. What about all the JRPGS for Sony? MArio, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Xenoblade, Metroid, Pikmen, Knack, Journey, Ape Escape, Beyond Two Souls, Disgea, Ratchet & Clank, Final Fantasy X & X-2, Gran Turismo, Forza, Fable, etc. So those are just "exceptions?

#181 Posted by Shielder7 (5155 posts) -

I'm not reading all that you need to sum that shit up kid.

#182 Edited by CrownKingArthur (5070 posts) -
@Lulu_Lulu said:

@CrownKingArthur

Does Black & White count ? ;)

i guess so, i don't know, i actually never played that despite being recommended it several times. did you like it? and were there any other ones you liked?

#183 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (14527 posts) -

@CrownKingArthur

Its more commonly described as a God Game and its Skirmish were boring because they were too "prepatory" in nature.

I haven't played any others, because I don't like controlling multiple entities mostly because the interface and controlls are very unintuitive compared to only controlling one entity.

If there was ever a game I took interest in, it would have to be Advanced Wars.... I heard its like chess.

#184 Posted by CrownKingArthur (5070 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: apparently this 'advanced wars' is turn based. and too preparatory in nature? perhaps its because i never played it but i don't understand what that means. like the start of the game dictates the rest of the game too much or something?

and if you aren't looking for an rts of that type, but still want something real time - then i'm not sure i can help you, as i'd just be making wild guesses. a moba? defense grid?

i don't know man. you're like an enigma. a funny enigma, but an enigma all the same :) :\ :| :/ :)

#185 Posted by intotheminx (709 posts) -

@Heirren said:

@jg4xchamp said:

Intro: Listen I know, usually when PC gamers make threads it comes with an overpowering feeling of elitism. And trust me a Champ thread is twice as elitist, because I'm twice as obnoxious. But I'll make my best attempts to meet you half way. For instance: I being the honorable champion that I am do the too long; didn't read part, before my actual OP.

You people: Um you only do that, because you write long ass novel posts that probably should have been condensed to 3 sentences anyway.

That doesn't invalidate my glorious decision making. So fuck you.

So Too long; not reading Champ's shit: Why is it that you completely dismiss the PC genres like MMOs, strategy games, mobas, point n clicks, etc?

Now with those of you who don't have the attention span of a 5 year old, I'll get more into why I want to ask this question.

Actual OP: See what I mean by drawing this out way fucking longer than I should? right? anyway.

When it comes to the usual console vs PC garbage of PC gamers being elitist dick twinkies (lets be real: you are), and console fans being ignorant bitch muffins (lets be real: you are): when all else fails the console fans will go to the age ol "the only exclusives the PC gets are RTS games, Mobas, MMO's, point and clicks" and it's like...the PC guys never need to actually diss your exclusives this way.

In contrast the PC guys don't need to point out the disgusting majority of Playstation/Xbox exclusives fall into action games or racing games. Yes every now and then exceptions like Viva Pinata and Valkyria Chronicles happen. But otherwise it's a whole lot of shooting dudes in the face and vrom vrom, extra lap. With no disrespect intended to a terrific game like The Last of Us or....well no, just The Last of Us.

So for the slightly less ignorant why dismiss these games, when a majority of your exclusives fit a similar comfort food genre?

I've gone the extra step and set up your responses "well those PC genres just aren't any good".

Um why? Is it the complexity? is it the part where they have genuine depth to gameplay? is it the part where they are built for longer investment times than one n done flavor of the month spectacles? Because as gaming enthusiasts, specifically the type that dissed the Wii for leaving the "hardcore" for the "casual" should you not appreaciate games with depth? should you not appreciate rich game design? should you not respect value for the dollar in terms of longevity of these games?

"Yeah but they are boring"

Why though? Because they aren't straight forward action games? They are less about reflex (RTS's noted, calm down) and more about ...thinking? You have to play on a more lateral level than you are used to? The gaming enthusiast who was bothered by shitty "casuals ruining gaming industry' don't like games where the player is demanded to think?

"I like games with stories"

So you dismiss an entire genre that has the most consistent and some of the best (if not the absolute best) story writers in the medium in point and click games? Because fundamentally speaking the point and click adventure genre is built to tell a story, and thus has the most organic writing in a video games. And it can't be a lack of love for this genre, because I know The Walking Dead/Wolf Among Us got love.

It can't be "lack of gameplay" because the ones that had crossover success on consoles, are the ones with less adventure gameplay. To the point where the gameplay part is borderline non existent. Sure the average adventure game can be far from special (1954 Alcatras and Richard and Alice are good examples of average), but in between you still get something genuinely cool like the Blackwell Epiphany, Deponia, or Kentucky Route Zero.

And when that fails: "Yeah, but that's all the PC has"

Okay whoa, let's not mistake the PC for a platform that is irrelevant to a vast majority of developers like the WiiU. It gets a lionshare of all the important third party Triple A multiplats, it's got a larger selection of indie games, downloadable only games, and niche games that either are less prominent on consoles (Horror games for instance) or games that can't be done on consoles without stripping away the depth from those games (the aformentioned strategy games, mobas, mmos, etc).

So yeah, why dismiss a bunch of clearly well designed games?

For the record this isn't a why don't you PC thread. That one is fucking easy. More expensive buy in and lack of interest in PC, which is whatever you don't want to game on a platform that gives the consumer genuine choice, flexibility, and options.

Dismissing entire genres based entirely on preference though? seems really misguided given the gap in gameplay depth.

I wait my just deserts and my lolchampthreads.

I didn't read all this. The simple answer is that pc gamers need to understand that there is a LARGE portion of people that like videogames but simply don't give a fck enough to go that in depth into the pc scene. People want to lay down on their ass and play a game to unwind after a long day. People want to buy a product at bestbuy or amazon. PC gamers don't realize that Steam, while a service many love, can be very cumbersome to adults that may have careers, etc. Steam actually alienates a group of people. This group honestly doesn't even know what is available. I'll use myself as an example that somewhat correlates to this. I grew up with the nes. I would read the game magazines up until around the Dreamcast era. Back then I really dug games that had the massive content. I could actually sit down and embrace a very long game. Today? Some may find this odd but I PREFER the high quality, compact sub 10 hour campaigns.

I work full time and I'm a full time student and I do not feel alienated by Steam lol. As far as people wanting to go to Bestbuy and purchase their games; digital distribution is quickly becoming the most popular format. I think its way easier to log into Steam and download a game than to drive way out to Bestbuy and exhaust myself further for a video game. Regarding your comment about 10 hour campaigns; I'm in the same boat because I simply do not have the time to play 40 hour campaigns and to spend a ton of time exploring and etc.

#186 Posted by intotheminx (709 posts) -

@Zen_Light said:

I've seen plenty of hermits dismissing all things Nintendo and just about anything Japanese. I've seen them dismiss Infamous and Uncharted, Destiny, Disgaea, Tales games, Red Dead Redemption and GTA V (before the PC announcement of course).

Sorry but a lot of PC gamers are not open minded about games that aren't on PC.

That's because this thread is kind of pointless. Most people are smart enough to research which platform has the games they enjoy, which is why some choose PC and others console, or even both. Personally, I give every game a chance, especially if it is being hailed as the king. I've played Uncharted, GTA, and I didn't like them. The only game on your list that I truly enjoyed and put a decent amount of time into is RDR. I do enjoy JRPG's, but I haven't seen one that grabs my interest in ages.

At the end of the day, not every person is going to enjoy every genre on their platform of choice. I mostly play on PC now and I could care less about mobas and mmo's.

#187 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (14527 posts) -

@CrownKingArthur

Thats exactly what it means. Believe it or not, too much strategy can be a bad thing..... The general rule of thumb is the best strategies are 3 moves long. Any more and it can become tedious and predictable and any less and it can become random and chaotic. You want a system that has a buttload of variables and viable options.

Another thing I just realised I don't like is Role Playing Elements in Strategy games, I noticed it in Forgotten Wars and it circles back to my earlier complaint about over preparation.

And its why I don't like turn base stuff.... Real Time is the best way to execute strategies.

#188 Posted by CrownKingArthur (5070 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: okeley dokeley neighboughrino!

#189 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (14527 posts) -

@CrownKingArthur

Been thinking about getting Overlord because Splitscreen.....

Heres something I don't get, why is the genre named "Strategy Games" ?

Don't strategies exist in other games ? Obviously they do.... So what defines a strategy game ?

I reckon the answer will be even worse than the one for RPGs.

#190 Posted by CrownKingArthur (5070 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: i don't know the etymology of genres sorry man.

#191 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (14527 posts) -

@CrownKingArthur

It use to be simple.... The genre's named is derived by how the game is played... Its mechanics.

And then came RPGs, Survival Horror, Adventure, Stategy and a few others that do didly squat to describe anything about how they are played. They have no Mechanics, infact they borrow other mechanics and repurpose them in some way.

#193 Posted by -Unreal- (24544 posts) -

It's just typical console peasant logic.

  • Genres suck when they're not on console. Diablo for example.
  • PC has no exclusives and whenever you list some, they are all bad.
  • Graphics don't matter, except when a peasant is arguing with another peasant.
#194 Edited by jg4xchamp (48695 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jg4xchamp: ok, so you say there are mainly actions games. What about all the JRPGS for Sony? MArio, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Xenoblade, Metroid, Pikmen, Knack, Journey, Ape Escape, Beyond Two Souls, Disgea, Ratchet & Clank, Final Fantasy X & X-2, Gran Turismo, Forza, Fable, etc. So those are just "exceptions?

So now not only do you have to combine the consoles, not only do you have to throw in games that aren't exclusives, not only do you go generation hoping, but you continue to miss the point of the discussion.

Yes an exception. Exception=/= those games don't exist. Your ignorance of the English language is not my problem.

#195 Posted by jg4xchamp (48695 posts) -

@Minishdriveby said:

@jg4xchamp: Have you ever watched Adams Æbler or De grønne slagtere? I'm just asking because of the Mads Mikkelsen avatar; I've been meaning to ask for awhile.

Nah mate/. Only know him from Hannibal (which is fucking terrific by the way) and Casino Royale. My film viewing is mostly american. Sometimes I dabble on European stuff like Let the Right One, most of my foreign stuff is Hong Kong stuff (like the exceptional Infernal Affairs, fuck The Departed), or Kurisawa stuff.

#196 Edited by Minishdriveby (10117 posts) -

@jg4xchamp said:

@Minishdriveby said:

@jg4xchamp: Have you ever watched Adams Æbler or De grønne slagtere? I'm just asking because of the Mads Mikkelsen avatar; I've been meaning to ask for awhile.

Nah mate/. Only know him from Hannibal (which is fucking terrific by the way) and Casino Royale. My film viewing is mostly american. Sometimes I dabble on European stuff like Let the Right One, most of my foreign stuff is Hong Kong stuff (like the exceptional Infernal Affairs, fuck The Departed), or Kurisawa stuff.

If you ever get the chance watch Adams Æbler (Adam's Apples). It's hilarious and on netflix.

#197 Edited by The_Last_Ride (72951 posts) -

@jg4xchamp said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@jg4xchamp: ok, so you say there are mainly actions games. What about all the JRPGS for Sony? MArio, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Xenoblade, Metroid, Pikmen, Knack, Journey, Ape Escape, Beyond Two Souls, Disgea, Ratchet & Clank, Final Fantasy X & X-2, Gran Turismo, Forza, Fable, etc. So those are just "exceptions?

So now not only do you have to combine the consoles, not only do you have to throw in games that aren't exclusives, not only do you go generation hoping, but you continue to miss the point of the discussion.

Yes an exception. Exception=/= those games don't exist. Your ignorance of the English language is not my problem.

Uhm i do know the english language mate...

Those games i mentioned aren't playable on the pc, that was my point...