Console gaming = more money

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#-49 Posted by savagetwinkie (7981 posts) -
[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121126/00590921141/dear-riaa-pirates-buy-more-full-stop-deal-with-it.shtml

clyde46

do you read your own article?

The study also looked at what they spent on, and, not surprisingly, money spent seems to be shifting to scarce goods -- the things that can't be "pirated." In the music world, that includes merchandise and live, as well as online subscriptions, rather than "buying music."

They are spending money on things they can't steal easily, this isn't helping your cause when its a study that cleary shows people stealing what they can and paying for what they can't steal.

Secondly if you look at this at a gaming perspective, you think developers make they're livelyhood on live shows and tshirts?

Going down the music route, artists get a fraction of the price of a sold album. They make more money from merch and live shows. What pirates are doing is spending money supporting the artists like like by buying their merch and going to see them live.

This is about gamers though, not musicians, the original argument used sales is worse than pirating games, because pirates buy things, but the article not only isn't related to games but shows that if gamers have the same mentality towards stealing games than one could see this as evidence to contradict the original argument. Gamers steal what they can and buy what they can't then? They buy hardware, and steal software...
#-48 Posted by lostrib (33376 posts) -

[QUOTE="MrYaotubo"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] And 3 million won't pay for a single year to keep all the developers involved actually employed... unless they are all getting paid 40k a year with no benefits... oh and there are still publishers eating away at that 3 million...savagetwinkie

It´s nearly at 4Millions now and we´re still barely half way through the duration of this bundle,they´re gonna get way more,especially in th last couple of days,kinda like kickstarter.

publishers spend like $20 million plus in 2 years on a single game, and thats a cheap game by todays standards... and these are games that I doubt sell that much any more, Consider also THQ is supposedly bankrupt, they are probably willing to do this since they won't be in business next year, good job, keep paying $6.00 for games

I will, and keep supporting the gaming industry, while you don't, buying used games

#-47 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

So let me get this straight... you guys brag about cheap games, yet insist that we're the ones on welfare? lowe0

Hey your the ones saying our PC are costing 26k.

#-46 Posted by savagetwinkie (7981 posts) -
[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="MrYaotubo"] It´s nearly at 4Millions now and we´re still barely half way through the duration of this bundle,they´re gonna get way more,especially in th last couple of days,kinda like kickstarter.MrYaotubo
publishers spend like $20 million plus in 2 years on a single game, and thats a cheap game by todays standards... and these are games that I doubt sell that much any more, Consider also THQ is supposedly bankrupt, they are probably willing to do this since they won't be in business next year, good job, keep paying $6.00 for games

If they´re not going to be around next year then it´s way better to pay that for the games than nothing, Only someone really dumb would twist all this into a bad thing.

If people were willing to spend more than $6 on several of their games, maybe they'd still be in business. The humble bundle is about a show of faith on both sides, your supposed to show you value the softare, and thq is allowing you to pay that price. It clearly shows people don't value the games they love when the average price people spent is cheaper than a mcdonalds meal.
#-45 Posted by clyde46 (44067 posts) -
[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

do you read your own article?

The study also looked at what they spent on, and, not surprisingly, money spent seems to be shifting to scarce goods -- the things that can't be "pirated." In the music world, that includes merchandise and live, as well as online subscriptions, rather than "buying music."

They are spending money on things they can't steal easily, this isn't helping your cause when its a study that cleary shows people stealing what they can and paying for what they can't steal.

Secondly if you look at this at a gaming perspective, you think developers make they're livelyhood on live shows and tshirts?

savagetwinkie
Going down the music route, artists get a fraction of the price of a sold album. They make more money from merch and live shows. What pirates are doing is spending money supporting the artists like like by buying their merch and going to see them live.

This is about gamers though, not musicians, the original argument used sales is worse than pirating games, because pirates buy things, but the article not only isn't related to games but shows that if gamers have the same mentality towards stealing games than one could see this as evidence to contradict the original argument. Gamers steal what they can and buy what they can't then? They buy hardware, and steal software...

Way to go tarring every gamer as a pirate jerkface. Of course there will be some that pirate to spite the system but there are many other reasons people pirate. Some pirate because certain games aren't available in their region. Other reasons can include the lack of demo's for PC games.
#-44 Posted by 04dcarraher (19171 posts) -

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="lostrib"]

There have been over 3 million dollars in purchases on this one bundle

lostrib

And 3 million won't pay for a single year to keep all the developers involved actually employed... unless they are all getting paid 40k a year with no benefits... oh and there are still publishers eating away at that 3 million...

Well actually if you were smart you would have pointed out that the 3 million is actually split among 3 entities at the discretion of each buyer. The default split appears to be 65% to THQ and 20% to charity. But giving some money to the developers is better than none, unlike those bargain bin gamestop purchases

Lets not forget THQ's stock rose 40% after day two of the humble bundle. I would buy this bundle however I own all but one of those games.
#-43 Posted by savagetwinkie (7981 posts) -

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="MrYaotubo"] It´s nearly at 4Millions now and we´re still barely half way through the duration of this bundle,they´re gonna get way more,especially in th last couple of days,kinda like kickstarter.

lostrib

publishers spend like $20 million plus in 2 years on a single game, and thats a cheap game by todays standards... and these are games that I doubt sell that much any more, Consider also THQ is supposedly bankrupt, they are probably willing to do this since they won't be in business next year, good job, keep paying $6.00 for games

I will, and keep supporting the gaming industry, while you don't, buying used games

who says I buy used games? I just said it's a valid option, and if your paying $6 for 5+ games your really not helping any one
#-42 Posted by lostrib (33376 posts) -

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] publishers spend like $20 million plus in 2 years on a single game, and thats a cheap game by todays standards... and these are games that I doubt sell that much any more, Consider also THQ is supposedly bankrupt, they are probably willing to do this since they won't be in business next year, good job, keep paying $6.00 for gamessavagetwinkie

I will, and keep supporting the gaming industry, while you don't, buying used games

who says I buy used games? I just said it's a valid option, and if your paying $6 for 5+ games your really not helping any one

better than $0. I actually didnt buy this bundle as a I already own the games that interest me

#-41 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"]So let me get this straight... you guys brag about cheap games, yet insist that we're the ones on welfare? Rocker6

I can think of 2-3 posters who recycle the argument, and I know one of them is just joking and having fun (tenaka)...

So, since when do the few exceptions make the rule?

Also, be kind enough to show me where did the TC ever said you or other consolites are on welfare...

"Just joking" is not an excuse - if it's posted here, it's fair game to attribute to your faction and argue against.
#-40 Posted by 04dcarraher (19171 posts) -
[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] publishers spend like $20 million plus in 2 years on a single game, and thats a cheap game by todays standards... and these are games that I doubt sell that much any more, Consider also THQ is supposedly bankrupt, they are probably willing to do this since they won't be in business next year, good job, keep paying $6.00 for gamessavagetwinkie

I will, and keep supporting the gaming industry, while you don't, buying used games

who says I buy used games? I just said it's a valid option, and if your paying $6 for 5+ games your really not helping any one

buying used games is the same as pirating and is no less moral. Not helping anyone lol, digital distribution, costs nothing but server renting and space. its more profitable then retail, also you should know that THQ's stock rose 40% after day two of the humble bundle being out.
#-39 Posted by lostrib (33376 posts) -

[QUOTE="Rocker6"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"]So let me get this straight... you guys brag about cheap games, yet insist that we're the ones on welfare? lowe0

I can think of 2-3 posters who recycle the argument, and I know one of them is just joking and having fun (tenaka)...

So, since when do the few exceptions make the rule?

Also, be kind enough to show me where did the TC ever said you or other consolites are on welfare...

"Just joking" is not an excuse - if it's posted here, it's fair game to attribute to your faction and argue against.

well if it's only 2-3 users, then it should not be attributed to an entire faction

#-38 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"]So let me get this straight... you guys brag about cheap games, yet insist that we're the ones on welfare? Bebi_vegeta

Hey your the ones saying our PC are costing 26k.

So call them out for it! Go on the offensive! This is a debate, not a pillow fight!
#-37 Posted by lostrib (33376 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"]So let me get this straight... you guys brag about cheap games, yet insist that we're the ones on welfare? lowe0

Hey your the ones saying our PC are costing 26k.

So call them out for it! Go on the offensive! This is a debate, not a pillow fight!

We cant all be as obnoxious as you

#-36 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="Rocker6"]

I can think of 2-3 posters who recycle the argument, and I know one of them is just joking and having fun (tenaka)...

So, since when do the few exceptions make the rule?

Also, be kind enough to show me where did the TC ever said you or other consolites are on welfare...

lostrib

"Just joking" is not an excuse - if it's posted here, it's fair game to attribute to your faction and argue against.

well if it's only 2-3 users, then it should not be attributed to an entire faction

Okay, I'll bite... how many posters are needed before it becomes attributable?
#-35 Posted by AmazonTreeBoa (16744 posts) -
Depends on how much your PC cost. My new one will be around $1,800. So for me PC actually cost more even with all the deals you get on PC. I also buy my console games when they are around $20 and I also buy used a lot of times, which means even cheaper. With that said, you get what you pay for and that $1,800 will be worth every penny. But if you try, I do believe you can make PC gaming cheaper than console gaming if you just aim for graphics that are on par with consoles or slightly better.
#-34 Posted by lostrib (33376 posts) -

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] "Just joking" is not an excuse - if it's posted here, it's fair game to attribute to your faction and argue against.lowe0

well if it's only 2-3 users, then it should not be attributed to an entire faction

Okay, I'll bite... how many posters are needed before it becomes attributable?

It would need to be the majority view of the faction. Go make a poll

#-33 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"]So let me get this straight... you guys brag about cheap games, yet insist that we're the ones on welfare? lowe0

Hey your the ones saying our PC are costing 26k.

So call them out for it! Go on the offensive! This is a debate, not a pillow fight!

But that's your job, I'm not the police.

#-32 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="lostrib"]

well if it's only 2-3 users, then it should not be attributed to an entire faction

lostrib

Okay, I'll bite... how many posters are needed before it becomes attributable?

It would need to be the majority view of the faction. Go make a poll

I'm not trying to advance a view one way or another. I'm more interested in pointing out contradictions.
#-31 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Hey your the ones saying our PC are costing 26k.

Bebi_vegeta

So call them out for it! Go on the offensive! This is a debate, not a pillow fight!

But that's your job, I'm not the police.

If you're not willing to argue, then why bother coming here?
#-30 Posted by lostrib (33376 posts) -

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] Okay, I'll bite... how many posters are needed before it becomes attributable?lowe0

It would need to be the majority view of the faction. Go make a poll

I'm not trying to advance a view one way or another. I'm more interested in pointing out contradictions.

okay, good job, you contradicted two idiots who hadnt even posted that view in this thread.

#-29 Posted by clyde46 (44067 posts) -
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] So call them out for it! Go on the offensive! This is a debate, not a pillow fight!lowe0

But that's your job, I'm not the police.

If you're not willing to argue, then why bother coming here?

There's nothing to argue about here.
#-28 Posted by savagetwinkie (7981 posts) -
[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="lostrib"]

I will, and keep supporting the gaming industry, while you don't, buying used games

04dcarraher
who says I buy used games? I just said it's a valid option, and if your paying $6 for 5+ games your really not helping any one

buying used games is the same as pirating and is no less moral. Not helping anyone lol, digital distribution, costs nothing but server renting and space. its more profitable then retail, also you should know that THQ's stock rose 40% after day two of the humble bundle being out.

Again who said I buy used games? And no it's not the same as pirating. Pirating can expose a game to everyone without actually being purchased, while used games still don't help the developer, the market will saturate first before used games cut into new sales. And even if THQ shares rose, that doesn't mean they are sticking around. I get they are trying to get their old games out before CoH 2 and Metro Last light come out, hopefully it will boost sales and keep the company a float, but realistically they are using the Humble Bundle for marketing.
#-27 Posted by lostrib (33376 posts) -

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] who says I buy used games? I just said it's a valid option, and if your paying $6 for 5+ games your really not helping any onesavagetwinkie
buying used games is the same as pirating and is no less moral. Not helping anyone lol, digital distribution, costs nothing but server renting and space. its more profitable then retail, also you should know that THQ's stock rose 40% after day two of the humble bundle being out.

Again who said I buy used games? And no it's not the same as pirating. Pirating can expose a game to everyone without actually being purchased, while used games still don't help the developer, the market will saturate first before used games cut into new sales. And even if THQ shares rose, that doesn't mean they are sticking around. I get they are trying to get their old games out before CoH 2 and Metro Last light come out, hopefully it will boost sales and keep the company a float, but realistically they are using the Humble Bundle for marketing.

You brought up used games, so deal with it. In the eyes of publishers/developers, used games and pirating is the same thing since they dont get money from either

#-26 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="lostrib"]

It would need to be the majority view of the faction. Go make a poll

lostrib

I'm not trying to advance a view one way or another. I'm more interested in pointing out contradictions.

okay, good job, you contradicted two idiots who hadnt even posted that view in this thread.

The idea of per-thread context was solidly rejected back in the days of "console graphics king" threads. Arguments don't begin and end at the edge of a thread.
#-25 Posted by savagetwinkie (7981 posts) -
[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="clyde46"] So your trying to justifying stealing and telling me I'm painting gamers in a bad perspective? I'm just saying pirates that steal games don't generally put money back into the industry, they are likely all highschool students too that can't afford to buy the games but ... games are being played without being payed for. Going down the music route, artists get a fraction of the price of a sold album. They make more money from merch and live shows. What pirates are doing is spending money supporting the artists like like by buying their merch and going to see them live.

This is about gamers though, not musicians, the original argument used sales is worse than pirating games, because pirates buy things, but the article not only isn't related to games but shows that if gamers have the same mentality towards stealing games than one could see this as evidence to contradict the original argument. Gamers steal what they can and buy what they can't then? They buy hardware, and steal software...

Way to go tarring every gamer as a pirate jerkface. Of course there will be some that pirate to spite the system but there are many other reasons people pirate. Some pirate because certain games aren't available in their region. Other reasons can include the lack of demo's for PC games.

#-24 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] So call them out for it! Go on the offensive! This is a debate, not a pillow fight!lowe0

But that's your job, I'm not the police.

If you're not willing to argue, then why bother coming here?

How do you argue with some who beleives a PC cost 26k... again Lowe0, you seem out of touch with the internet.

#-23 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

But that's your job, I'm not the police.

Bebi_vegeta

If you're not willing to argue, then why bother coming here?

How do you argue with some who beleives a PC cost 26k... again Lowe0, you seem out of touch with the internet.

Simple. Even a quote for a loaded Alienware would contradict that.
#-22 Posted by clyde46 (44067 posts) -
[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] This is about gamers though, not musicians, the original argument used sales is worse than pirating games, because pirates buy things, but the article not only isn't related to games but shows that if gamers have the same mentality towards stealing games than one could see this as evidence to contradict the original argument. Gamers steal what they can and buy what they can't then? They buy hardware, and steal software...

Way to go tarring every gamer as a pirate jerkface. Of course there will be some that pirate to spite the system but there are many other reasons people pirate. Some pirate because certain games aren't available in their region. Other reasons can include the lack of demo's for PC games.

I'm not defending stealing. I'm pointing out that piracy does not equal a lost sale. Buying used is a lost sale.
#-21 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] If you're not willing to argue, then why bother coming here?lowe0

How do you argue with some who beleives a PC cost 26k... again Lowe0, you seem out of touch with the internet.

Simple. Even a quote for a loaded Alienware would contradict that.

And would still beleive PC cost 26k, because that's what trolls do.

#-20 Posted by savagetwinkie (7981 posts) -

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"] buying used games is the same as pirating and is no less moral. Not helping anyone lol, digital distribution, costs nothing but server renting and space. its more profitable then retail, also you should know that THQ's stock rose 40% after day two of the humble bundle being out.lostrib

Again who said I buy used games? And no it's not the same as pirating. Pirating can expose a game to everyone without actually being purchased, while used games still don't help the developer, the market will saturate first before used games cut into new sales. And even if THQ shares rose, that doesn't mean they are sticking around. I get they are trying to get their old games out before CoH 2 and Metro Last light come out, hopefully it will boost sales and keep the company a float, but realistically they are using the Humble Bundle for marketing.

You brought up used games, so deal with it. In the eyes of publishers/developers, used games and pirating is the same thing since they dont get money from either

So what if I brought up used games, you brought up cheap games, I brought up similarly cheap games, then you say buying used games is worse than pirating when its not, accuse me of buying used games which has little relevance to this argument, same with how bad pirating is, developers are idiots if they look at it the same way, Used games can generate DLC revenue, Also Used games only cut into sales once the market is saturated, if they don't want this to be a big problem, they need to stop spending so much money on mediocre games...
#-19 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

How do you argue with some who beleives a PC cost 26k... again Lowe0, you seem out of touch with the internet.

Bebi_vegeta

Simple. Even a quote for a loaded Alienware would contradict that.

And would still beleive PC cost 26k, because that's what trolls do.

Who cares? Whether or not he changes his mind, the argument would be proven right or wrong.
#-18 Posted by AmazonTreeBoa (16744 posts) -
Meh, PS+ gives games for free and they don't ask for anything in return.tagyhag
No, PS+ rents you those games. You don't own them. Want proof? Stop paying for PS+.
#-17 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] Simple. Even a quote for a loaded Alienware would contradict that.lowe0

And would still beleive PC cost 26k, because that's what trolls do.

Who cares? Whether or not he changes his mind, the argument would be proven right or wrong.

Even when proven wrong, tomorow is another day, and the same argument passes on.

This argument happened today, and it's going to happen tomorow and the day after... It's like you're new to gamespot, unless you havealzheimer...

#-16 Posted by Rocker6 (13358 posts) -

[QUOTE="Rocker6"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"]So let me get this straight... you guys brag about cheap games, yet insist that we're the ones on welfare? lowe0

I can think of 2-3 posters who recycle the argument, and I know one of them is just joking and having fun (tenaka)...

So, since when do the few exceptions make the rule?

Also, be kind enough to show me where did the TC ever said you or other consolites are on welfare...

"Just joking" is not an excuse - if it's posted here, it's fair game to attribute to your faction and argue against.

Alright, have it your way. Just because a few consolites insist on overexaggerating the PC prices, does that mean the entire group is guilty of it?

For example, you never do it. Should I call you out on it just because someone else did?

Also, no, it's not fair to count jokes and sarcasm as arguments, that doesn't make much sense. If I make a sarcastic remark about "peasants" and make it clear I mean it as a joke, should that be held against me? There in no point in refuting it, all you can say is "I didn't find it funny"...

#-15 Posted by funsohng (27537 posts) -
Meh consoles barely have any games to buy, and PC does so much sales that you buy games that you haven't even thought of playing before and after buying.
#-14 Posted by clyde46 (44067 posts) -

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] Again who said I buy used games? And no it's not the same as pirating. Pirating can expose a game to everyone without actually being purchased, while used games still don't help the developer, the market will saturate first before used games cut into new sales. And even if THQ shares rose, that doesn't mean they are sticking around. I get they are trying to get their old games out before CoH 2 and Metro Last light come out, hopefully it will boost sales and keep the company a float, but realistically they are using the Humble Bundle for marketing.savagetwinkie

You brought up used games, so deal with it. In the eyes of publishers/developers, used games and pirating is the same thing since they dont get money from either

So what if I brought up used games, you brought up cheap games, I brought up similarly cheap games, then you say buying used games is worse than pirating when its not, accuse me of buying used games which has little relevance to this argument, same with how bad pirating is, developers are idiots if they look at it the same way, Used games can generate DLC revenue, Also Used games only cut into sales once the market is saturated, if they don't want this to be a big problem, they need to stop spending so much money on mediocre games...

Developers get ZERO from used games sales. I've seen games that have just been released on the shelf pre-owned for near new prices, yet none of that money goes to the developers.

#-13 Posted by savagetwinkie (7981 posts) -
[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="clyde46"] Way to go tarring every gamer as a pirate jerkface. Of course there will be some that pirate to spite the system but there are many other reasons people pirate. Some pirate because certain games aren't available in their region. Other reasons can include the lack of demo's for PC games.

I'm not defending stealing. I'm pointing out that piracy does not equal a lost sale. Buying used is a lost sale.

piracy is lost sales. Its not 1 lost sale for every game pirated but I can't imagine everyone pirating a game can't afford it, but we do know piracy can happen at a much larger scale since you don't have to have an initial sale to be a used copy. You could theoretically have 1 game sold and 100,000,000 copies of it... It's impossible to track how many people would have paid for it if it hadn't been accessible other ways. Also your still neglecting the fact that DLC should be taken into account, you normally can't buy legit DLC with a pirated game, you can with a used game, and publishers lock out part of the used game via online passes, so used games can generate revenue for them after the fact.
#-12 Posted by Rocker6 (13358 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"]So let me get this straight... you guys brag about cheap games, yet insist that we're the ones on welfare? lowe0

Hey your the ones saying our PC are costing 26k.

So call them out for it! Go on the offensive! This is a debate, not a pillow fight!

Why bother chasing after recycled arguments that have been proven wrong countless times?

Also, SW has much more similarities to a pillow fight than to a structured debate...

#-11 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]savagetwinkie
I'm not defending stealing. I'm pointing out that piracy does not equal a lost sale. Buying used is a lost sale.

piracy is lost sales. Its not 1 lost sale for every game pirated but I can't imagine everyone pirating a game can't afford it, but we do know piracy can happen at a much larger scale since you don't have to have an initial sale to be a used copy. You could theoretically have 1 game sold and 100,000,000 copies of it... It's impossible to track how many people would have paid for it if it hadn't been accessible other ways. Also your still neglecting the fact that DLC should be taken into account, you normally can't buy legit DLC with a pirated game, you can with a used game, and publishers lock out part of the used game via online passes, so used games can generate revenue for them after the fact.

What happens when console are face with piracy and used games ?

#-10 Posted by savagetwinkie (7981 posts) -

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="lostrib"]

You brought up used games, so deal with it. In the eyes of publishers/developers, used games and pirating is the same thing since they dont get money from either

clyde46

So what if I brought up used games, you brought up cheap games, I brought up similarly cheap games, then you say buying used games is worse than pirating when its not, accuse me of buying used games which has little relevance to this argument, same with how bad pirating is, developers are idiots if they look at it the same way, Used games can generate DLC revenue, Also Used games only cut into sales once the market is saturated, if they don't want this to be a big problem, they need to stop spending so much money on mediocre games...

Developers get ZERO from used games sales. I've seen games that have just been released on the shelf pre-owned for near new prices, yet none of that money goes to the developers.

Developers get money from used games sales all the time, just because they didn't recieve it from the point of sale doesn't mean they don't get it back in other ways, DLC is one way to add value to used games, why do you think buying new will usually get you that online pass now, or day 1 DLC, it's to give value for the new game over the old game, or generate revenue after. This isn't possible with pirated games. A pirated game generates no value, unless it generates interest in the downloaded to buy it.
#-9 Posted by lostrib (33376 posts) -

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]savagetwinkie
I'm not defending stealing. I'm pointing out that piracy does not equal a lost sale. Buying used is a lost sale.

piracy is lost sales. Its not 1 lost sale for every game pirated but I can't imagine everyone pirating a game can't afford it, but we do know piracy can happen at a much larger scale since you don't have to have an initial sale to be a used copy. You could theoretically have 1 game sold and 100,000,000 copies of it... It's impossible to track how many people would have paid for it if it hadn't been accessible other ways. Also your still neglecting the fact that DLC should be taken into account, you normally can't buy legit DLC with a pirated game, you can with a used game, and publishers lock out part of the used game via online passes, so used games can generate revenue for them after the fact.

Well plenty of people who pirate, use it as a demo and then purchase the legit game to support the developer. In addition, online passes were only recently implemented by publishers to combat used game sales, and they have caught just about as much grief for it as do publishers using DRM on PC

#-8 Posted by savagetwinkie (7981 posts) -

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="clyde46"] I'm not defending stealing. I'm pointing out that piracy does not equal a lost sale. Buying used is a lost sale.Bebi_vegeta

piracy is lost sales. Its not 1 lost sale for every game pirated but I can't imagine everyone pirating a game can't afford it, but we do know piracy can happen at a much larger scale since you don't have to have an initial sale to be a used copy. You could theoretically have 1 game sold and 100,000,000 copies of it... It's impossible to track how many people would have paid for it if it hadn't been accessible other ways. Also your still neglecting the fact that DLC should be taken into account, you normally can't buy legit DLC with a pirated game, you can with a used game, and publishers lock out part of the used game via online passes, so used games can generate revenue for them after the fact.

What happens when console are face with piracy and used games ?

it's a lot harder to pirate on consoles, modded hardware, unable to go online safely... these are problems pirates can normally get around easily with hacked servers on PC and the fact that you don't need any special hardware for the pirated software. I'm not saying it its all better on consoles, but we are straying far far off topic, the point, bargain bin sales for consoles can be pretty cheap also, or PSN+ seems to be a great way to save money in the long run, and DLC sales are also great for PC. A smart shopper won't spend more money on any platform.
#-7 Posted by savagetwinkie (7981 posts) -

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="clyde46"] I'm not defending stealing. I'm pointing out that piracy does not equal a lost sale. Buying used is a lost sale.lostrib

piracy is lost sales. Its not 1 lost sale for every game pirated but I can't imagine everyone pirating a game can't afford it, but we do know piracy can happen at a much larger scale since you don't have to have an initial sale to be a used copy. You could theoretically have 1 game sold and 100,000,000 copies of it... It's impossible to track how many people would have paid for it if it hadn't been accessible other ways. Also your still neglecting the fact that DLC should be taken into account, you normally can't buy legit DLC with a pirated game, you can with a used game, and publishers lock out part of the used game via online passes, so used games can generate revenue for them after the fact.

Well plenty of people who pirate, use it as a demo and then purchase the legit game to support the developer. In addition, online passes were only recently implemented by publishers to combat used game sales, and they have caught just about as much grief for it as do publishers using DRM on PC

And it's been only recent Used games have been an issue, because of the just outright bad workflow game makers have right now, long development cycles, completely exploded expenses... and "many" people that pirate use it as a demo is speculation at best.
#-6 Posted by Bebi_vegeta (13558 posts) -

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] piracy is lost sales. Its not 1 lost sale for every game pirated but I can't imagine everyone pirating a game can't afford it, but we do know piracy can happen at a much larger scale since you don't have to have an initial sale to be a used copy. You could theoretically have 1 game sold and 100,000,000 copies of it... It's impossible to track how many people would have paid for it if it hadn't been accessible other ways. Also your still neglecting the fact that DLC should be taken into account, you normally can't buy legit DLC with a pirated game, you can with a used game, and publishers lock out part of the used game via online passes, so used games can generate revenue for them after the fact.savagetwinkie

What happens when console are face with piracy and used games ?

it's a lot harder to pirate on consoles, modded hardware, unable to go online safely... these are problems pirates can normally get around easily with hacked servers on PC and the fact that you don't need any special hardware for the pirated software. I'm not saying it its all better on consoles, but we are straying far far off topic, the point, bargain bin sales for consoles can be pretty cheap also, or PSN+ seems to be a great way to save money in the long run, and DLC sales are also great for PC. A smart shopper won't spend more money on any platform.

Harder ?

It's seems very simple... chip console, done!

Either way, it's not about being simple or hard... it's a fact that it happens. Console are face with both problems... hence why we probably see more pirating done on PC aswell.

#-5 Posted by lostrib (33376 posts) -

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] piracy is lost sales. Its not 1 lost sale for every game pirated but I can't imagine everyone pirating a game can't afford it, but we do know piracy can happen at a much larger scale since you don't have to have an initial sale to be a used copy. You could theoretically have 1 game sold and 100,000,000 copies of it... It's impossible to track how many people would have paid for it if it hadn't been accessible other ways. Also your still neglecting the fact that DLC should be taken into account, you normally can't buy legit DLC with a pirated game, you can with a used game, and publishers lock out part of the used game via online passes, so used games can generate revenue for them after the fact.savagetwinkie

Well plenty of people who pirate, use it as a demo and then purchase the legit game to support the developer. In addition, online passes were only recently implemented by publishers to combat used game sales, and they have caught just about as much grief for it as do publishers using DRM on PC

And it's been only recent Used games have been an issue, because of the just outright bad workflow game makers have right now, long development cycles, completely exploded expenses... and "many" people that pirate use it as a demo is speculation at best.

Well not really, it has just as much data backing it up as your idea that people buying used games also then buy the DLC, i.e. zero

#-4 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="Rocker6"]

I can think of 2-3 posters who recycle the argument, and I know one of them is just joking and having fun (tenaka)...

So, since when do the few exceptions make the rule?

Also, be kind enough to show me where did the TC ever said you or other consolites are on welfare...

Rocker6

"Just joking" is not an excuse - if it's posted here, it's fair game to attribute to your faction and argue against.

Alright, have it your way. Just because a few consolites insist on overexaggerating the PC prices, does that mean the entire group is guilty of it?

For example, you never do it. Should I call you out on it just because someone else did?

Also, no, it's not fair to count jokes and sarcasm as arguments, that doesn't make much sense. If I make a sarcastic remark about "peasants" and make it clear I mean it as a joke, should that be held against me? There in no point in refuting it, all you can say is "I didn't find it funny"...

Well, you certainly could call me or any other consolite out on it, though you'd be open to being proven wrong. Instead, it's better to prove the argument itself wrong (or contradictory to some other argument) and ignore the names next to the posts entirely. And no, joking is still not an excuse. In the case of sarcasm, it's better to phrase it as a question rather than an absolute statement. I try to think ahead on how my words can be used against me and rewrite as needed.
#-3 Posted by Everiez (1946 posts) -

Yeah, lets ignore the fact that consolites could find cheap deals too and trade in their games to get some money back.

#-2 Posted by lostrib (33376 posts) -

[QUOTE="Rocker6"]

[QUOTE="lowe0"] "Just joking" is not an excuse - if it's posted here, it's fair game to attribute to your faction and argue against.lowe0

Alright, have it your way. Just because a few consolites insist on overexaggerating the PC prices, does that mean the entire group is guilty of it?

For example, you never do it. Should I call you out on it just because someone else did?

Also, no, it's not fair to count jokes and sarcasm as arguments, that doesn't make much sense. If I make a sarcastic remark about "peasants" and make it clear I mean it as a joke, should that be held against me? There in no point in refuting it, all you can say is "I didn't find it funny"...

Well, you certainly could call me or any other consolite out on it, though you'd be open to being proven wrong. Instead, it's better to prove the argument itself wrong (or contradictory to some other argument) and ignore the names next to the posts entirely. And no, joking is still not an excuse. In the case of sarcasm, it's better to phrase it as a question rather than an absolute statement. I try to think ahead on how my words can be used against me and rewrite as needed.

System wars is not a serious place, so slow your roll

#-1 Posted by lowe0 (13692 posts) -

[QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="Rocker6"]

Alright, have it your way. Just because a few consolites insist on overexaggerating the PC prices, does that mean the entire group is guilty of it?

For example, you never do it. Should I call you out on it just because someone else did?

Also, no, it's not fair to count jokes and sarcasm as arguments, that doesn't make much sense. If I make a sarcastic remark about "peasants" and make it clear I mean it as a joke, should that be held against me? There in no point in refuting it, all you can say is "I didn't find it funny"...

lostrib

Well, you certainly could call me or any other consolite out on it, though you'd be open to being proven wrong. Instead, it's better to prove the argument itself wrong (or contradictory to some other argument) and ignore the names next to the posts entirely. And no, joking is still not an excuse. In the case of sarcasm, it's better to phrase it as a question rather than an absolute statement. I try to think ahead on how my words can be used against me and rewrite as needed.

System wars is not a serious place, so slow your roll

I see no rule posted that embracing ridiculousness is required.
#0 Posted by Grawse (4342 posts) -
[QUOTE="tagyhag"]Meh, PS+ gives games for free and they don't ask for anything in return.AmazonTreeBoa
No, PS+ rents you those games. You don't own them. Want proof? Stop paying for PS+.

You got trolled son.