Can Xbox One Really Be This Bad? Yes. And I Know Why.

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#51 Edited by ReadingRainbow4 (16684 posts) -

It's a fair assumption, but I have a feeling it's more than just one person that rek'd xbones chances at becoming a viable alternative to the ps4.

I feel like many others that the 180 they did definitely screwed up alot of their plans, They were very off in calculating power differences between the ps4 as well, that stupid decision to rely on esram is just killing them.

#52 Posted by musicalmac (23718 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

@musicalmac:

hey fair enough. I wonder why some have trouble with the voice commands. I don't need to learn them, they are written in green on any tile, just read them. My X1 has been amazingly responsive and intuitive. As far as the 'powah' thing, Nintendo showed power doesn't insure maximum profit. So they gambled and lost. But I don't believe its the power that has PS4 selling more. Its the brand recognition and price. Kaz said they would let MS make the first move and react accordingly. MS had DRM and other idiotic things and a 500 dollar price point. Sony reacted well, and smartly.

But the console isn't for everyone, none of them are. I enjoy it, am still getting a PS4.

Sure, some people have great success with the voice commands. But they aren't all that advanced, and that's an issue with people who aren't as savvy or patient with technology (or forgiving).

Nintendo showed power didn't matter with a console that cost far less than the competition during its entire lifespan. It also introduced a new gimmick that proved to be very popular. You're right that MS' gamble has proven to be less successful than they hoped for, which saddens me because I wanted Kinect to be truly revolutionary.

To say I'll never get a console is premature, because it's early on in this generation and we haven't seen everything we can ever expect to see quite yet.

#53 Posted by xxyetixx (1474 posts) -

@musicalmac: I agree Kinect is not perfect, and some of the times it's me and user error and sometimes it's Kinect. The more I use it, understand how it processes the commands the better it gets and the more responsive it is to me. I blame that mostly on MS advertising the show it off in Commercials and it's like the consumer is speaking to it like it's Jarvis from Iron Man when it's not. It does miss things when you just spout out a command all at once. But if you give it a moment to respond to you like say "Xbox" give it a moment to start listening, then say "Snap" opens up snap, then say "TV" and it does the function, and works all the time. But if your just sitting there and shout out "Xbox snap TV" it can be hit or miss. If you give the X1 that split second time once you say "Xbox" it starts listening, brings up other commands and options and if you say what the words are in green it goes there and does it everytime. So all in all I can't complain, but MS's advertising is hurting more then helping by making Kinect seem like something it's not. Right now it's neat and adds some convienence, and has potential that isn't really seen yet. That's all

#54 Posted by Draign (1050 posts) -

@musicalmac:

@musicalmac said:

@cainetao11 said:

@musicalmac:

hey fair enough. I wonder why some have trouble with the voice commands. I don't need to learn them, they are written in green on any tile, just read them. My X1 has been amazingly responsive and intuitive. As far as the 'powah' thing, Nintendo showed power doesn't insure maximum profit. So they gambled and lost. But I don't believe its the power that has PS4 selling more. Its the brand recognition and price. Kaz said they would let MS make the first move and react accordingly. MS had DRM and other idiotic things and a 500 dollar price point. Sony reacted well, and smartly.

But the console isn't for everyone, none of them are. I enjoy it, am still getting a PS4.

Sure, some people have great success with the voice commands. But they aren't all that advanced, and that's an issue with people who aren't as savvy or patient with technology (or forgiving).

Nintendo showed power didn't matter with a console that cost far less than the competition during its entire lifespan. It also introduced a new gimmick that proved to be very popular. You're right that MS' gamble has proven to be less successful than they hoped for, which saddens me because I wanted Kinect to be truly revolutionary.

To say I'll never get a console is premature, because it's early on in this generation and we haven't seen everything we can ever expect to see quite yet.

Kinect is very useful and I would miss it. being recognized (auto sign in) , scanning bar codes on store cards, and SKype. Thats before even getting to a game. Kinect Sports Rivals is no doubt a measuring stick.You sound highly upset/disappointed and you dont even own the system to make a sound judgement..

#55 Posted by StormyJoe (6742 posts) -

@musicalmac said:

"[Kinect] is really something that we feel, once you take out, lots of people will go, 'Gosh, I really liked that, I got used to it, and I'm going to miss it,'" he said." I think the more consumers get exposed to it, the more they use it, they'll realize what a great, amazing experience it is."

That comes from Xbox Group Program Manager David Dennis, who in the same interview managed to cast doubt on the future of VR technology, comparing it to the flash-in-the-pan 3D TV fad of yesteryear.

Fire this man immediately.

If you wonder why the Xbox One can be so bad, can be so under-powered, can be so chained to Kinect, can be so pretentiously priced -- one can presume a large piece of the fail pie the Xbox One is made of can be the ingredients of this man.

Unreal. That quote is a special kind of bad, the kind I haven't seen in a long time. That's how you kill a brand.

Source: Ars

...and you are a moderator. Wow. How can some be so full of it and be a moderator? Isn't there a "bullshit" screening process?

#56 Posted by musicalmac (23718 posts) -

@draign said:

@musicalmac:

Kinect is very useful and I would miss it. being recognized (auto sign in) , scanning bar codes on store cards, and SKype. Thats before even getting to a game. Kinect Sports Rivals is no doubt a measuring stick.You sound highly upset/disappointed and you dont even own the system to make a sound judgement..

Those are conveniences, not game-changers. I wanted to see something revolutionary, and instead we got a product by this disappointing product manager. Let's not lose sight of what we're talking about.

@StormyJoe said:

...and you are a moderator. Wow. How can some be so full of it and be a moderator? Isn't there a "bullshit" screening process?

Like I said to other users, it's better to attack the point than it is to attack the person. What exactly do you think is ridiculous? Are you coming to the defense of this product manager?

#57 Edited by StormyJoe (6742 posts) -

@musicalmac:

Kinect is useful, I use it all the time to navigate through the XB1's UI, and voice commands in games. And, your blanket attack of the XB1's capabilities amount to something I would hear from a rabid cow, not a moderator.

I fundamentally disagree with every point of the line "If you wonder why the Xbox One can be so bad, can be so under-powered, can be so chained to Kinect, can be so pretentiously priced"

#58 Posted by ReadingRainbow4 (16684 posts) -

I never thought I'd see musicalmac called a cow :P

#59 Posted by Acez626 (690 posts) -

Quick question...

How does GS pick their mods? My guess so far is by going to various different cow farms across the country

#60 Posted by cainetao11 (20227 posts) -

@musicalmac:

Well said. That was the part MS screwed the pooch on. Less power, lower the price. But they wanted to sell the console at even or small profit this gen, so I get why the price. Funny that the fanboys blast them for that, when its actually business 101. In the end, understand your frustration to a degree. But I guess I am pretty forgiving at this point in my life.

#61 Posted by Heil68 (48388 posts) -

They just haven't recovered from 2009. Pity really.

#62 Posted by BeardMaster (1686 posts) -

@musicalmac said:

@BeardMaster said:

Coulda fooled me, pretty piss poor choice of a thread title then pal. At least most mods at least attempt to tactfully hide their fanboyism.

It's actually a play on another thread from the past that I found to be very compelling. The user made the point that there is no way the Xbox One can be this bad, and that there must be something we don't know. I have felt the same way for a long time, but with a product manager like this one, it's no wonder it disappointed so many gamers.

Would you disagree than the Xbox One was a major disappointment to a lot of gamers? The fact that it trails the PS4 in sales is one big indicator. If you have compelling evidence that's contrary to my statements, I'd truly love to see them. I love surprises and I'm so rarely surprised.

I guess if you think early adopters constitute the general gaming population. Im not sure what the disappointment is though... if its graphics, its inevitable advancements would slow down. Both consoles are underwhelming, as im sure the cost benefit analysis at both MS and Sony showed diminishing returns meant the loss leader approach was no longer a solid strategy.

#63 Posted by HalcyonScarlet (5457 posts) -

@musicalmac said:

@chikenfriedrice said:

I would say you are overreacting quite a bit

Perhaps our expectations are different. If I were in a meeting, and someone said that quote to me as a means to explain the appeal of the Xbox One, I'd just sit there and ask "Why?" until I got a compelling answer.

If I didn't get a compelling answer, it's time to head back to the drawing board.

Or until you get the answer you want to hear.

As long as the X1 isn't as weak as the Wii in comparison, I don't think it matters and it's not even vastly weaker than the PS4, it's moderately weaker. When did a console become about power by definition? Isn't that what the PC is for? The PS4 doesn't come close to a PC and the gap will only widen, and I have a feeling more so now. Also PS has struggled with power for 3 gens, the last with the the consoles own complexity.

Also why would you want the current gen consoles to be twins again like last gen. I welcome that all three consoles are different. It was a little boring that the only difference between the PS3 and X360 was a handful of games. I'd be far FAR more willing to own an X1 and PS4 side by side at some point if they're actually different, unlike the PS3 and 360. There were a few opportunities I had to buy a PS3, but to be honest, it just looked too similar to me. Some of the exclusives didn't interest me and subtract those, there isn't enough extra to make me want a whole new console.

I agree the 3D TV thing was a bad analogy, but I'm not sold on 3D just yet. 3D in film can make them look cheap, it can take something away, but that is a separate issue. What ever way you discuss 3D, our brains weren't wired to process stereo images, unless I'm misunderstanding what this new VR thing actually is and how it works.

So is the X1 actually bad or is just not right for you? Which is fine too.

And after all this, me and many others have asked (with no answer), what is so great about the PS4?

Take the bias away and apply the same pressure of expectations the X1 is under, does the PS4 hold up? When it comes to the X1 people are saying why this, why that, where's this? Well actually, it has games and like the PS4 it's progressing and improving, the huge minus is the price, but that a temporary thing.

Now switch it, the PS4 has just got it's first good game after four or five months, but it has been considered a great system so far, for not a lot really and has completely avoided criticism, for it's potential. Well where is all this potential, where are all these great games and the graphics that truly blows everything else away, because if it is demanded that the X1 have everything gift wrapped and ready right freakin now, then why not the PS4?

#64 Posted by musicalmac (23718 posts) -

@StormyJoe said:

@musicalmac:

Kinect is useful, I use it all the time to navigate through the XB1's UI, and voice commands in games. And, your blanket attack of the XB1's capabilities amount to something I would hear from a rabid cow, not a moderator.

I fundamentally disagree with every point of the line "If you wonder why the Xbox One can be so bad, can be so under-powered, can be so chained to Kinect, can be so pretentiously priced"

So you don't wish it was more powerful, you like that Kinect is central to the Xbox One experience, and you don't agree that it's too expensive? If that's all true, that's fine and your opinion is your own. It doesn't change my feelings, however.

@ReadingRainbow4 said:

I never thought I'd see musicalmac called a cow :P

It happened once a couple years ago, too.

@Acez626 said:

Quick question...

How does GS pick their mods? My guess so far is by going to various different cow farms across the country

Attack the point, not the person.

#65 Posted by CrownKingArthur (5262 posts) -

its just another pr quote from a guy who is 'on message'.

#66 Posted by Acez626 (690 posts) -

@Acez626 said:

Quick question...

How does GS pick their mods? My guess so far is by going to various different cow farms across the country

Attack the point, not the person.

Heh sorry, your right lmao

#67 Posted by ghostwarrior786 (5811 posts) -

i for one applaud tc for posting such blunt truth. disillusion lems may disagree but companies have to know when they got it wrong, m$ hasnt acknowledged that yet. when the gap is 20m they might

#68 Posted by musicalmac (23718 posts) -

@cainetao11 said:

@musicalmac:

Well said. That was the part MS screwed the pooch on. Less power, lower the price. But they wanted to sell the console at even or small profit this gen, so I get why the price. Funny that the fanboys blast them for that, when its actually business 101. In the end, understand your frustration to a degree. But I guess I am pretty forgiving at this point in my life.

Good for you, that's healthy. Personally, it's got to give me more than the same with extra triangles. That's why Rift has my attention.

@BeardMaster said:

I guess if you think early adopters constitute the general gaming population. Im not sure what the disappointment is though... if its graphics, its inevitable advancements would slow down. Both consoles are underwhelming, as im sure the cost benefit analysis at both MS and Sony showed diminishing returns meant the loss leader approach was no longer a solid strategy.

No, the general gaming population is currently enjoying titles on their iPhones. My disappointment is that neither Sony nor Microsoft gave us something exciting or unexpected. It was all very much more of the same, and that's not exciting. To see the attitude of this product manager further cemented my disappointment, because it was a person that made these decisions and that had the chance to do something better.

@HalcyonScarlet said:

Or until you get the answer you want to hear.

As long as the X1 isn't as weak as the Wii in comparison, I don't think it matters and it's not even vastly weaker than the PS4, it's moderately weaker. When did a console become about power by definition? Isn't that what the PC is for? The PS4 doesn't come close to a PC and the gap will only widen, and I have a feeling more so now. Also PS has struggled with power for 3 gens, the last with the the consoles own complexity.

Also why would you want the current gen consoles to be twins again like last gen. I welcome that all three consoles are different. It was a little boring that the only difference between the PS3 and X360 was a handful of games. I'd be far FAR more willing to own an X1 and PS4 side by side at some point if they're actually different, unlike the PS3 and 360. There were a few opportunities I had to buy a PS3, but to be honest, it just looked too similar to me. Some of the exclusives didn't interest me and subtract those, there isn't enough extra to make me want a whole new console.

I agree the 3D TV thing was a bad analogy, but I'm not sold on 3D just yet. 3D in film can make them look cheap, it can take something away, but that is a separate issue. What ever way you discuss 3D, our brains weren't wired to process stereo images, unless I'm misunderstanding what this new VR thing actually is and how it works.

So is the X1 actually bad or is just not right for you? Which is fine too.

And after all this, me and many others have asked (with no answer), what is so great about the PS4?

Take the bias away and apply the same pressure of expectations the X1 is under, does the PS4 hold up? When it comes to the X1 people are saying why this, why that, where's this? Well actually, it has games and like the PS4 it's progressing and improving, the huge minus is the price, but that a temporary thing.

Now switch it, the PS4 has just got it's first good game after four or five months, but it has been considered a great system so far, for not a lot really and has completely avoided criticism, for it's potential. Well where is all this potential, where are all these great games and the graphics that truly blows everything else away, because if it is demanded that the X1 have everything gift wrapped and ready right freakin now, then why not the PS4?

The answer I'd want to hear is one that didn't include presumptuous hyperbole. That quote in the OP is among the most useless and pointless quotes in the history of video gaming. It eclipses Molyneux.

The Xbox One isn't terrible at being a very traditional game console, and the same applies to the PS4. But neither seem prepared to offer something truly different (on the same level at the Oculus Rift, for example -- which is a game-changer). Neither console holds up for me in terms of offering something I didn't have with the previous generation. I think for what they offer, both consoles are too expensive.

Again, lets not forget, this thread exists because of that apathetic product manager. An opportunity squandered and an opportunity justified with Ballmer-level hyperbole. What a waste of opportunity.

#69 Posted by StormyJoe (6742 posts) -

@musicalmac said:

@StormyJoe said:

@musicalmac:

Kinect is useful, I use it all the time to navigate through the XB1's UI, and voice commands in games. And, your blanket attack of the XB1's capabilities amount to something I would hear from a rabid cow, not a moderator.

I fundamentally disagree with every point of the line "If you wonder why the Xbox One can be so bad, can be so under-powered, can be so chained to Kinect, can be so pretentiously priced"

So you don't wish it was more powerful, you like that Kinect is central to the Xbox One experience, and you don't agree that it's too expensive? If that's all true, that's fine and your opinion is your own. It doesn't change my feelings, however.

@ReadingRainbow4 said:

I never thought I'd see musicalmac called a cow :P

It happened once a couple years ago, too.

@Acez626 said:

Quick question...

How does GS pick their mods? My guess so far is by going to various different cow farms across the country

Attack the point, not the person.

  • I like that the Kinect is central to the Xbox One experience. All of my "non-gamer" friends are wowed by the XB1's voice and gesture commands and how it is the central media hub for my living room (actually, my man-cave).
  • I wish both consoles were more powerful, but I don't agree with the forumites in here who claim the difference in performance is significant. We are not talking about PS1 vs PS2 or even Xbox Vs PS2 here.
  • For what you get, and what it does, I do not think it is too expensive. Would I rather pay $399 or $299 for it? Of course, who wouldn't want to pay less for something? Do I think the launch price of $499 is a rip off? No, I do not.
#70 Posted by musicalmac (23718 posts) -

@StormyJoe said:

  • I like that the Kinect is central to the Xbox One experience. All of my "non-gamer" friends are wowed by the XB1's voice and gesture commands and how it is the central media hub for my living room (actually, my man-cave).
  • I wish both consoles were more powerful, but I don't agree with the forumites in here who claim the difference in performance is significant. We are not talking about PS1 vs PS2 or even Xbox Vs PS2 here.
  • For what you get, and what it does, I do not think it is too expensive. Would I rather pay $399 or $299 for it? Of course, who wouldn't want to pay less for something? Do I think the launch price of $499 is a rip off? No, I do not.

That's all fair, if that's how you feel that's good, especially if you own one. It doesn't offer me enough for $499, and I think the product manager in question is largely responsible for that, and it's too bad.

We disagree, it's that simple.

#71 Posted by TwistedShade (3139 posts) -

Gamespot: Where even the moderators can make terrible threads and get away with it.

Seriously giant facepalm reading all of that, I get the point you want to make but you only make yourself look incredibly stupid trying to argue it like that.

#72 Posted by musicalmac (23718 posts) -

@TwistedShade said:

Gamespot: Where even the moderators can make terrible threads and get away with it.

Seriously giant facepalm reading all of that, I get the point you want to make but you only make yourself look incredibly stupid trying to argue it like that.

Attack the point not the person. I've said that many times, and I hope it begins to stick. If you want to post in a meaningful way, you'll focus on the point and not on the person. It's very simple.

#73 Posted by hrt_rulz01 (7450 posts) -

@chikenfriedrice said:

You should lock your own thread.

Lol...

#74 Edited by musicalmac (23718 posts) -

@ReadingRainbow4 said:

It's a fair assumption, but I have a feeling it's more than just one person that rek'd xbones chances at becoming a viable alternative to the ps4.

I feel like many others that the 180 they did definitely screwed up alot of their plans, They were very off in calculating power differences between the ps4 as well, that stupid decision to rely on esram is just killing them.

He is the Xbox Group Program Manager. He is very much so responsible for what the Xbox One looks like. That's the burden of leadership.

#75 Edited by ghostwarrior786 (5811 posts) -

^^^^hahahhahahha dat lem butthurt. this mod is AWESOME for telling the TRUTH. lems counter to truth= tc is cow, hahahhaha TRUTH SHALL SET U FREE LEMS. admit u bought a piece of garbage, repent for 399.99 days for committing such a sin and then maybe lord kaz will give u the opportunity to embrace perfection

#76 Posted by KBFloYd (15039 posts) -

so...

anyone buy a wiiU this week?

they are on sale.

#77 Posted by TwistedShade (3139 posts) -

@musicalmac said:

@TwistedShade said:

Gamespot: Where even the moderators can make terrible threads and get away with it.

Seriously giant facepalm reading all of that, I get the point you want to make but you only make yourself look incredibly stupid trying to argue it like that.

Attack the point not the person. I've said that many times, and I hope it begins to stick. If you want to post in a meaningful way, you'll focus on the point and not on the person. It's very simple.

What exactly is your point? You didn't post any facts just mindless dribble about why you think the Xbox One sucks. Unfortunately nothing in your argument was very good, you took one statement by some employee and exaggerated it and spun it into something it's not. This isn't the CEO, this isn't the President, this isn't any high level executive. This is a Manager that is allowed to have his own opinion and yet for some reason you so distastefully wanted to state his own opinion is dead wrong and then tried to fire off horrible facts about why that is.

He does make a point, I enjoy using Kinect and I think the biggest problem with it's detractors are that they won't grasp exactly how it is until they use it, and then once they get used to it they wouldn't want to be without it. His statement about VR is also fair, because we don't know the future of it and your over-inflated ego doesn't either. Sure it's been popular so far but I've seen plenty of fads that came for a year or two and then completely died off down the road, one big problem VR is going to have is sooner or later people will lose interest if it never makes it to the market. And when it does then we can start saying how well or not it did, once we get good estimates how many people are buying it.

The biggest hype towards VR right now is Developers but developers don't make a product successful consumers do and I simply haven't heard of the large scale consumer interest into it.

In all seriousness I feel like if anyone except a mod made this thread it would get locked since there's no facts or arguments to be presented here just some mindless rabble.

#78 Edited by HalcyonScarlet (5457 posts) -
@musicalmac said:

@cainetao11 said:

@musicalmac:

Well said. That was the part MS screwed the pooch on. Less power, lower the price. But they wanted to sell the console at even or small profit this gen, so I get why the price. Funny that the fanboys blast them for that, when its actually business 101. In the end, understand your frustration to a degree. But I guess I am pretty forgiving at this point in my life.

Good for you, that's healthy. Personally, it's got to give me more than the same with extra triangles. That's why Rift has my attention.

@BeardMaster said:

I guess if you think early adopters constitute the general gaming population. Im not sure what the disappointment is though... if its graphics, its inevitable advancements would slow down. Both consoles are underwhelming, as im sure the cost benefit analysis at both MS and Sony showed diminishing returns meant the loss leader approach was no longer a solid strategy.

No, the general gaming population is currently enjoying titles on their iPhones. My disappointment is that neither Sony nor Microsoft gave us something exciting or unexpected. It was all very much more of the same, and that's not exciting. To see the attitude of this product manager further cemented my disappointment, because it was a person that made these decisions and that had the chance to do something better.

@HalcyonScarlet said:

Or until you get the answer you want to hear.

As long as the X1 isn't as weak as the Wii in comparison, I don't think it matters and it's not even vastly weaker than the PS4, it's moderately weaker. When did a console become about power by definition? Isn't that what the PC is for? The PS4 doesn't come close to a PC and the gap will only widen, and I have a feeling more so now. Also PS has struggled with power for 3 gens, the last with the the consoles own complexity.

Also why would you want the current gen consoles to be twins again like last gen. I welcome that all three consoles are different. It was a little boring that the only difference between the PS3 and X360 was a handful of games. I'd be far FAR more willing to own an X1 and PS4 side by side at some point if they're actually different, unlike the PS3 and 360. There were a few opportunities I had to buy a PS3, but to be honest, it just looked too similar to me. Some of the exclusives didn't interest me and subtract those, there isn't enough extra to make me want a whole new console.

I agree the 3D TV thing was a bad analogy, but I'm not sold on 3D just yet. 3D in film can make them look cheap, it can take something away, but that is a separate issue. What ever way you discuss 3D, our brains weren't wired to process stereo images, unless I'm misunderstanding what this new VR thing actually is and how it works.

So is the X1 actually bad or is just not right for you? Which is fine too.

And after all this, me and many others have asked (with no answer), what is so great about the PS4?

Take the bias away and apply the same pressure of expectations the X1 is under, does the PS4 hold up? When it comes to the X1 people are saying why this, why that, where's this? Well actually, it has games and like the PS4 it's progressing and improving, the huge minus is the price, but that a temporary thing.

Now switch it, the PS4 has just got it's first good game after four or five months, but it has been considered a great system so far, for not a lot really and has completely avoided criticism, for it's potential. Well where is all this potential, where are all these great games and the graphics that truly blows everything else away, because if it is demanded that the X1 have everything gift wrapped and ready right freakin now, then why not the PS4?

The answer I'd want to hear is one that didn't include presumptuous hyperbole. That quote in the OP is among the most useless and pointless quotes in the history of video gaming. It eclipses Molyneux.

The Xbox One isn't terrible at being a very traditional game console, and the same applies to the PS4. But neither seem prepared to offer something truly different (on the same level at the Oculus Rift, for example -- which is a game-changer). Neither console holds up for me in terms of offering something I didn't have with the previous generation. I think for what they offer, both consoles are too expensive.

Again, lets not forget, this thread exists because of that apathetic product manager. An opportunity squandered and an opportunity justified with Ballmer-level hyperbole. What a waste of opportunity.

Why do you even care what some like him is talking about? He's just saying fairly predictable company lines.

#79 Posted by always_explicit (3132 posts) -

@musicalmac said:

@cainetao11 said:

@musicalmac: Couldn't disagree more. No matter one's feelings on Kinect, the console is selling, and there are those that love, like, accept Kinect. I like it. Enjoy the Skype, sign in and voice commands. Gaming with family is fun also. You are an intelligent gamer, I'm surprised you'd post your opinion so matter of factly.

It's not about sales, it has nothing to do with sales. My problem stems from the lukewarm presumptions of a Ballmer-era product manager. As I said before, if I were in a meeting and my subordinate gave me a line like the quote in the OP, I'd fill it full of holes until he was prepared to go back to the drawing board to re-evaluate his strategy.

I'd also be meeting with his staff individually (without him present) to get direct feedback from them on their own ideas that were tabled and why they weren't implemented (if I liked one of these ideas). I'd also make it clear to my product manager that the reason I'm holding these meetings is because I want to ensure that our product will do exactly what we say it will do, and that it'll do those things better than any other competing product. I would say that I was holding these meetings to be thorough and that would not be a lie.

The initial idea of Kinect was one that I latched onto immediately, because it wasn't a half-hearted solution like PS Move (which is an entirely boring piece of equipment that got every ounce of attention it deserved last gen, which was virtually none). It was so genuinely different that I loved the concept, but the tech just wasn't quite there yet.

Fast forward to Kinect that ships with the Xbox One, and I would argue it's still not quite there. The voice commands aren't entirely natural, they're unintentionally non-conversational, and they have to be learned. The idea that voice commands need to be learned at this point in our history is a step backwards. I think relying on Kinect for voice commands would have been a logical option is MS had already developed and shipped Cortana (their answer to Apple's Siri and Google's voice solution). Sadly, this isn't the case (due to Microsoft's lost decade).

My thread is not an attack on the Xbox One or the PS4. My personal feelings are my own, and if you don't agree with them than they do not have any bearing on your personal perceptions should you disagree. I don't like the consoles because neither of them wow'd me and neither of them did anything extraordinary. This thread is an indictment of one man's borderline apathetic approach to consumer electronics that has resulted in what I perceive to be an ultimately disappointing product. That bothers me.

Well you should consider that MS original vision for what the Xbox One would be was vastly different from the one we have now. The family sharing, the always online...kinect. It was the consumers that destroyed that vision not MS. The consumers duped themselves out of a potentially extraordinary experience. MS are playing catchup, not because they are not visionary or technically capable...but because they have had mere months to totally repackage and re-market their product. Its not going to be a speedy process. Having had the Xbox since launch I have every faith in the console...kinect included. You may feel like this guy is apathetic about kinect but the continual updates and investment in software show that MS in general are not going to let the Xbox One remain noncompetitive.

#80 Posted by musicalmac (23718 posts) -

@TwistedShade said:

What exactly is your point? You didn't post any facts just mindless dribble about why you think the Xbox One sucks. Unfortunately nothing in your argument was very good, you took one statement by some employee and exaggerated it and spun it into something it's not. This isn't the CEO, this isn't the President, this isn't any high level executive. This is a Manager that is allowed to have his own opinion and yet for some reason you so distastefully wanted to state his own opinion is dead wrong and then tried to fire off horrible facts about why that is.

He does make a point, I enjoy using Kinect and I think the biggest problem with it's detractors are that they won't grasp exactly how it is until they use it, and then once they get used to it they wouldn't want to be without it. His statement about VR is also fair, because we don't know the future of it and your over-inflated ego doesn't either. Sure it's been popular so far but I've seen plenty of fads that came for a year or two and then completely died off down the road, one big problem VR is going to have is sooner or later people will lose interest if it never makes it to the market. And when it does then we can start saying how well or not it did, once we get good estimates how many people are buying it.

The biggest hype towards VR right now is Developers but developers don't make a product successful consumers do and I simply haven't heard of the large scale consumer interest into it.

In all seriousness I feel like if anyone except a mod made this thread it would get locked since there's no facts or arguments to be presented here just some mindless rabble.

I don't know how to respond except to say that much of what you put here is incorrect or at least inaccurate. It's either because you didn't read the thread thoroughly or didn't fully comprehend what I have been saying.

Much of it also relies on what you assume to be conventional wisdom, which means very little to anyone but you. Ultimately, it's too far off base to respond to in way other than this.

@HalcyonScarlet said:

Why do you even care what some like him is talking about? He's just saying fairly predictable company lines.

That "company line" you describe is even weaker than the Ballmer video in which he responds to Apple's iPhone. At least Ballmer could say that Microsoft has 99USD phones that do what the iPhone does already on the market. And even still, MS got stomped in the mobile space, and is still getting stomped.

In this case, MS can't even say, "We already have a console out there for 99USD less than the competition." All they can do is shovel hyperbolic crap at all of you, and some people are okay with that. I am not.

For me personally, this is not a space in which I feel comfortable being apathetic.

#81 Posted by TheEroica (14620 posts) -

Leave the console alone... Eat the hundred dollars and let consumers for the first time see the effin thing as a value rather than a premium. Don't care what folks say ps4 is selling because consumers see both hardware value at 399$ and extreme value in psn+ gaming library. Microsoft isn't showing value... Yet.

Good thread Mac. Lots of tears and mud slinging from the insecure.

#82 Posted by cainetao11 (20227 posts) -

"Attack the point not the person"- I like that. Its done so little in game forum discussions it seems.

#83 Edited by kuu2 (8139 posts) -

Stick to modding at least someone thinks you are good at that.

Also where is it proven that The One is bad outside of your opinion?

#84 Posted by musicalmac (23718 posts) -

@always_explicit said:

Well you should consider that MS original vision for what the Xbox One would be was vastly different from the one we have now. The family sharing, the always online...kinect. It was the consumers that destroyed that vision not MS. The consumers duped themselves out of a potentially extraordinary experience. MS are playing catchup, not because they are not visionary or technically capable...but because they have had mere months to totally repackage and re-market their product. Its not going to be a speedy process. Having had the Xbox since launch I have every faith in the console...kinect included. You may feel like this guy is apathetic about kinect but the continual updates and investment in software show that MS in general are not going to let the Xbox One remain noncompetitive.

Wrong, I do not look at you as apathetic. If you are pleased with what the Xbox One provides, I'm very happy for you.

It's my view of that product manager that brought about the word apathetic. To base the central feature of your console around a presumption such as the one quoted in the OP is, to me, frustratingly idiotic.

Personally, it wasn't enough for me to jump in right away. I even made it clear that it's likely I'll end up owning one or both of these consoles in the future. But people like to skip over that and jump the gun on their conclusions. Very much SW style.

#85 Edited by musicalmac (23718 posts) -

@TheEroica said:

Leave the console alone... Eat the hundred dollars and let consumers for the first time see the effin thing as a value rather than a premium. Don't care what folks say ps4 is selling because consumers see both hardware value at 399$ and extreme value in psn+ gaming library. Microsoft isn't showing value... Yet.

Good thread Mac. Lots of tears and mud slinging from the insecure.

Thank you, friend.

@cainetao11 said:

"Attack the point not the person"- I like that. Its done so little in game forum discussions it seems.

This is all too often forgotten.

@kuu2 said:

Stick to modding at least someone thinks you are good at that.

Also where is it proven that The One is bad outside of your opinion?

I never said it was bad outside of my own opinion. In fact, I've praised people who like their Xbox One, and I've told them I was happy for them in an entirely sincere way. This thread isn't about Xbox One bashing, it's about a seemingly apathetic and presumptuous product manager. And, attack the point, not the person.

How many more times will we have to say it in this thread?

#86 Posted by ReadingRainbow4 (16684 posts) -

@StormyJoe said:

@musicalmac said:

@StormyJoe said:

@musicalmac:

Kinect is useful, I use it all the time to navigate through the XB1's UI, and voice commands in games. And, your blanket attack of the XB1's capabilities amount to something I would hear from a rabid cow, not a moderator.

I fundamentally disagree with every point of the line "If you wonder why the Xbox One can be so bad, can be so under-powered, can be so chained to Kinect, can be so pretentiously priced"

So you don't wish it was more powerful, you like that Kinect is central to the Xbox One experience, and you don't agree that it's too expensive? If that's all true, that's fine and your opinion is your own. It doesn't change my feelings, however.

@ReadingRainbow4 said:

I never thought I'd see musicalmac called a cow :P

It happened once a couple years ago, too.

@Acez626 said:

Quick question...

How does GS pick their mods? My guess so far is by going to various different cow farms across the country

Attack the point, not the person.

  • I like that the Kinect is central to the Xbox One experience. All of my "non-gamer" friends are wowed by the XB1's voice and gesture commands and how it is the central media hub for my living room (actually, my man-cave).
  • I wish both consoles were more powerful, but I don't agree with the forumites in here who claim the difference in performance is significant. We are not talking about PS1 vs PS2 or even Xbox Vs PS2 here.
  • For what you get, and what it does, I do not think it is too expensive. Would I rather pay $399 or $299 for it? Of course, who wouldn't want to pay less for something? Do I think the launch price of $499 is a rip off? No, I do not.

I think the Xbox vs PS2 comparison is actually pretty spot on.

#87 Posted by musicalmac (23718 posts) -

@ReadingRainbow4 said:

I think the Xbox vs PS2 comparison is actually pretty spot on.

I don't know if we've seen enough yet, have we? Who knows how it'll look in a year. It may not even be that different.

#88 Posted by highking_kallor (594 posts) -

@xxyetixx:

Thats awesome mate. How has it improved your games. Maybe you can finally explain it too me.

#89 Posted by Vatusus (5478 posts) -

@magicalclick said:

I doubt cow would make this thread is EyeToy didn't sucked.

It was actually a great piece of hardware for its time. It was just badly marketed contrary to MS and Kinect

#90 Edited by ReadingRainbow4 (16684 posts) -

@musicalmac said:

@ReadingRainbow4 said:

I think the Xbox vs PS2 comparison is actually pretty spot on.

I don't know if we've seen enough yet, have we? Who knows how it'll look in a year. It may not even be that different.

There could be some differences but I imagine they'd be minor. I just don't see how they're going to close the hardware gap, and it's not even just about superior tech, the design of the two systems is similar yet very different, particularly the xbones rather massive bottleneck with esram. Sony received a lot of jokes from supporting a unified GDDR5 Ram system, but it really seems like it was the smart choice.

#91 Edited by steamistrash (431 posts) -

XBOX ONE SUCKS BECAUSE OF OF ALL THE RND MONEY THEY PUT INTO KINECT SO THEY GIMPED THE POWER OF THE HARDWARE.

good job dumbtrucks.

#92 Edited by Sagemode87 (1203 posts) -

@StormyJoe: You better tread carefully before your ass gets banned. Don't worry, we won't miss you lol. Also, how does him disliking MS business tactics mean he's a fanboy? They're not listening to the customer and you defend them? MS deserves fanboys like you.

#93 Edited by kuu2 (8139 posts) -

Ok TC, so who is The One made and marketed to?

#94 Posted by Sagemode87 (1203 posts) -

LMAO at Lems in this thread. You're willing to get banned and attack a mod just to defend your precious piece of plastic. Xbox One is a piece of shit, everyone knows that by now. Why do you think PS4 is doubling it's sales worldwide. Only America seems to give a damn about the thing.

#95 Posted by musicalmac (23718 posts) -

@kuu2 said:

Ok TC, so who is The One made and marketed to?

Why are you asking me?

#96 Posted by kuu2 (8139 posts) -

@musicalmac: Your opinion and OP probably but answering a question with a question usually means you are afraid to answer.

#97 Edited by handssss (1901 posts) -
@kuu2 said:

Ok TC, so who is The One made and marketed to?

not TC, but it's fairly obvious.

1. the wii audience that got over the fad and is now obsessed with phone and tablet games.

2. the longtime hardcore fans who will buy whatever they produce no matter what.

#98 Edited by Couth_ (10369 posts) -

lol at people claiming mac is a cow.The mods here aren't drones. They have opinions.

For some reason though, every time anyone has anything negative to say about the xbox they are labeled a cow, not a sheep or a hermit, not an unbiased poster, always a cow. Anytime someone has something bad to say about the PS4, they are always labeled a lemming. Not a sheep, hermit or manticore, always a lemming.

Automatically assuming another poster is a fanboy only exposes yourself as one

#99 Edited by LJS9502_basic (152952 posts) -

@shawn30 said:

Come on dude, blatant fanboyism. Its fine if you don't like the games and nothing about Kinect interests you. But outside of the price the One has very good games and more coming. Graphics are good and will improve. The one thing the One needs is a 100-150 price drop. Nothing more. 4 million in 4 months with a hot game just released, constantly updating new features into the OS and finally releasing Kinect centric games like Kinect Sports Rivals and apps like Twitch broadcasting and indie games on the way. The One will be fine going forward. Juts gotta get that price down ASAP.

I never see any game worth owning yet for the X1. Launches just don't offer much.

#100 Posted by kuu2 (8139 posts) -

@musicalmac said:

@draign said:

@musicalmac:

Kinect is very useful and I would miss it. being recognized (auto sign in) , scanning bar codes on store cards, and SKype. Thats before even getting to a game. Kinect Sports Rivals is no doubt a measuring stick.You sound highly upset/disappointed and you dont even own the system to make a sound judgement..

Those are conveniences, not game-changers. I wanted to see something revolutionary, and instead we got a product by this disappointing product manager. Let's not lose sight of what we're talking about.

@StormyJoe said:

...and you are a moderator. Wow. How can some be so full of it and be a moderator? Isn't there a "bullshit" screening process?

Like I said to other users, it's better to attack the point than it is to attack the person. What exactly do you think is ridiculous? Are you coming to the defense of this product manager?

You don't even want to talk about the points hence you don't respond to questions about your OP....................please. Your false victim-hood is showing.