C4 Engine Creater Eric Lengyel- eSRAM is Dissapointing

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#1 Posted by way2funny (4570 posts) -

Article #1 Article #2

Sony made a lot of good decisions when it comes to the technical design of the PS4. It’s awesome to have a fast, featured-packed GPU that can access a huge amount of fast memory. The Xbox One isn’t a whole lot different, but the slower memory and the irritation of still having something like eSRAM are disappointing.

C4 is currently exclusive to the PS4 for the sole reason that Sony was much more cooperative than Microsoft when we were first exploring conversion to next-gen consoles. Sony treated us with respect and made sure that we had everything we needed to get C4 running on the PS4. Microsoft did not respond to us in any way that included the slightest bit of professionalism, and that’s just one more thing to throw onto the pile of PR missteps surrounding the Xbox One.

For those of you who don't know, Eric Lengyel is a pretty big player in the graphics industry. He's worked in 3D graphics for a while, wrote several books on it, and actually wrote and designed PS3's graphics API.

He currently works on the C4 Engine (he basically did this all solo), which is a professionally made indie rendering engine that is fast, fully featured and even has voxel terrain and Dynamic Horizon Mapping. Basically, he knows what he's talking about regarding graphics and is up there with people like Carmack.

#2 Posted by Mystery_Writer (8111 posts) -

teh lazy devs!!

misterXmedia says Microsoft to boost X1 performance with just drivers update to 12-16TF compared to PS4's only 1.8TF

/true story :P

#3 Edited by Joedgabe (5134 posts) -
@Mystery_Writer said:

teh lazy devs!!

misterXmedia says Microsoft to boost X1 performance with just drivers update to 12-16TF compared to PS4's only 1.8TF

/true story :P

I don't understand why someone who is an "insider" acts like such a die hard lemming fanboy instead of that cool spy guy that even if he's wrong people can believe he's not full of it like what he actually is? :/

#4 Edited by ACP_45 (610 posts) -

@way2funny: This is kind of sad.....

But remember that MS aren’t really open towards Indie games. Since they have a lot of small devs supporting them.

Sony on the other hand is completely open to Indies.

Also I love the way those articles are written in a fanboy bait type way........

I would want to know why ESRAM is an irritation.

Isn’t C4 engine at like Version 3 now ???

The codebase existed since 2010-11 I think......

SO I guess that makes implementing ESRAM into this a sort of an irritation because you aren’t use to it.

#5 Posted by Spitfire-Six (702 posts) -

I would have to agree, I can see how it would rub debs the wrong way with the architecture of the system. Plus the way they handled the situation. If I were starting a development studio right now I would have to work with ps4. Just seems simpler. I have worked in a studio in the past that was in development for Microsoft and they were nothing but professional.

#6 Edited by ACP_45 (610 posts) -

@Joedgabe: LOL...

Insider seems to know too much

Fake ?

#7 Edited by way2funny (4570 posts) -

@acp_45 said:

@way2funny: This is kind of sad.....

But remember that MS aren’t really open towards Indie games. Since they have a lot of small devs supporting them.

Sony on the other hand is completely open to Indies.

Also I love the way those articles are written in a fanboy bait type way........

I would want to know why ESRAM is an irritation.

Isn’t C4 engine at like Version 3 now ???

The codebase existed since 2010-11 I think......

SO I guess that makes implementing ESRAM into this a sort of an irritation because you aren’t use to it.

C4 engine has been around since 2005. Its on 3.5 right now. If you are curious why its an irritation, you can go to the C4 forums.

You can ask him yourself, Eric actively posts in the forums and answers support questions and such.

#8 Posted by NFJSupreme (5414 posts) -

He seems very cocky. I hope he delivers.

#9 Posted by Joedgabe (5134 posts) -

@acp_45: He seems extremely too biased like on the edge rather than informative.

#10 Posted by lglz1337 (4205 posts) -

TLHBO once again, but they keep hoping

#11 Posted by ACP_45 (610 posts) -

@Joedgabe: I hope Kameo 2 and Lost Od 2 will come true...

I also believe it when he says that Xbox One has some things up it’s sleeve but the insider is glorifying that to a secret sauce type thing...... DayZ dev also said Xbox One has some exciting stuff and asked MS why they don’t announce this to everyone.....

CD Projekt Red also hinted this......

But I guess Sony also has some cool things coming the VR headset seems interesting but it’s not something I would want.....

But MxM’s insider is way too biased..... by the looks of it..

#12 Edited by ACP_45 (610 posts) -

@way2funny: Lol my bad...

2005?

No freakin’ wonder Esram is an irritation.

#13 Posted by Silenthps (7284 posts) -

Dudes a smart man I've read his math book

#14 Posted by way2funny (4570 posts) -
@acp_45 said:

@way2funny: Lol my bad...

2005?

No freakin’ wonder Esram is an irritation.

You do realize software is iterative? And the newest version of something may not resemble an older version? Do you think id tech 4 to id tech 5 they rewrote the engine from scratch? or id tech 5 to id tech 6? Or even Frostbite 1 to Frostbite 2 to Frostbite 3? That is a very naive perspective on software. Not to mention the fact that people confused graphics engine with game engine regularly.

#15 Edited by ACP_45 (610 posts) -

@way2funny: I know that but being used to just tapping into a large pool of ram is easier to get use to and I’m pretty sure ESRAM will need a different path if you want to use it...

Since it’s already version 3.5 it’s not like the basis is gone. hardcode is still there, meaning that ESRAM will obviously be more difficult if I’m correct.

#16 Posted by magicalclick (23995 posts) -

Indie demands high profile attentions while indie games market doesn't need top of the line graphics. Nothing new.

#17 Posted by way2funny (4570 posts) -

@acp_45 said:

@way2funny: I know that but being used to just tapping into a large pool of ram is easier to get use to and I’m pretty sure ESRAM will need a different path if you want to use it...

Since it’s already version 3.5 it’s not like the basis is gone hardcoded meaning that ESRAM will obviously be more difficult if I’m correct.

Its not just that it is easier, there are bottlenecking issues with it. That is the part that is frustrating.

#18 Posted by way2funny (4570 posts) -

@magicalclick said:

Indie demands high profile attentions while indie games market doesn't need top of the line graphics. Nothing new.

The games hes credited with don't seem really indie

  • Formula One Championship Edition (2007), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc.
  • Heavenly Sword (2007), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc.
  • Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (2007), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc.
  • Warhawk (2007), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc.
  • MotorStorm (2006), Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated
  • Resistance: Fall of Man (2006), Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated
  • Jak 3 (2004), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc.
  • Quest for Glory V: Dragon Fire (1998), Sierra On-Line, Inc.
#19 Posted by ACP_45 (610 posts) -

@way2funny: I know the SDK is sh!t.

#20 Posted by bobbetybob (19298 posts) -

Games created with the C4 engine:

Transport Simulator

Utility Vehicle Simulator 2012

City Bus Simulator 2010

Sounds like Microsoft are missing out.

#21 Edited by Pray_to_me (3103 posts) -

Anyone surprised? Any graphics card worth anything released in the past 5 years uses GDDR5 not DDR3 + ESRAM. Die hard MS apologists continue to try and spin it like it's some sort of superior solution and that in time the "secret sauce" will all come to fruition when the actual truth is much simpler:

MS thought PS4 was going to have 4 gigs of GDDR5, so they packed it with 8 gigs of of cheapo DDR3 knowing that non-tech enthusiasts would assume that 8 is better than 4. In actuality, 4 gigs of GDDR5 is still superior to 8 gigs of DDR3 for gaming. 8GB of GDDR5 vs. 8GB of DDR3 is just a blowout.

32 megs of ESRAM is just a bottleneck that wouldn't even be necessary if MS hadn't gotten all cheap with the consoles components.

#22 Posted by ACP_45 (610 posts) -

@Pray_to_me: ESRAM is only a bottleneck because SDK is sh!t .....

It isn’t really used for what it’s intended... devs need to manually flush cache because ESRAM is crappy to use atm

#23 Posted by CrownKingArthur (5262 posts) -

yup

#24 Posted by Krelian-co (13098 posts) -

@acp_45 said:

@Pray_to_me: ESRAM is only a bottleneck because SDK is sh!t .....

It isn’t really used for what it’s intended... devs need to manually flush cache because ESRAM is crappy to use atm

nope, the 32 mb is still too small to correctly handle 1080p no matter how good an sdk get.

#25 Posted by tormentos (20279 posts) -

@acp_45 said:

@Joedgabe: I hope Kameo 2 and Lost Od 2 will come true...

I also believe it when he says that Xbox One has some things up it’s sleeve but the insider is glorifying that to a secret sauce type thing...... DayZ dev also said Xbox One has some exciting stuff and asked MS why they don’t announce this to everyone.....

CD Projekt Red also hinted this......

But I guess Sony also has some cool things coming the VR headset seems interesting but it’s not something I would want.....

But MxM’s insider is way too biased..... by the looks of it..

And this is why i consider people like you to be a joke,you totally lack common sense,part of MS losing the battle is because they have a weak ass console,that cost $100 more if MS had something that could turn the tie they would have been screaming it since E3,is incredible after seeing how MS handle the xbox 360 publicity,that people like you still believe that MS has something hidden.

The xbox 360 had a stronger GPU and the PS3 and MS scream it since before launch,it was always hyping how great and fast the Xenos was,and now you want people to believe that they have something powerful inside but some how are holding it for no freaking reason at all,while they get hit with a backlash for releasing a weak console that is more expensive and more center around TV.

Here let me help you..

1-If MS had a strong GPU or any stacked crap,you would know it by now,because they would have not stop talking about it.

2-The GCN part they had is basically a 7790 with 2CU disable and 147mhz slower,and a jaguar CPU,confirmed and re confirmed by image from the chip it self.

3-MS admitted that they on purpose didn't target high end graphics.

4-MS did a last minute clock upgrade on its CPU and GPU because they were under performing.

5-MS will unleash 8% of a 10% reservation they had for Kinect and features,because even with the CPU and GPU up clock the console perform badly compare to the PS4,and even compare to GPU like the 7770 on PC.

Now all this 5 points and a little of common sense and you quickly get that the xbox one is under power that it will remain that way and that there is nothing hidden.

@acp_45 said:

@Pray_to_me: ESRAM is only a bottleneck because SDK is sh!t .....

It isn’t really used for what it’s intended... devs need to manually flush cache because ESRAM is crappy to use atm

No ESRAM is sh** because not matter what is to small,EDRAM was to small all generation long on xbox 360,and ESRAM will be to small all generation long,there is no SDK that can change that,is memory is not a GPU,not everything fit there and certain effects can eat up almost all the ESRAM by them self let alone with a combination of other things,they need to flush the cache because the damn CPU and GPU can't see them self clearly it has been stated like 10 times,and MS and its apologist deny it.

#26 Posted by arkephonic (6688 posts) -

@tormentos:

Does overclocking the CPU and gpu so heavily have any detrimental effects long term on the system due to the parts working so hard and getting so hot? Like, can it lead to a premature system failure?

#27 Edited by Salt_The_Fries (10104 posts) -

@acp_45 said:

@way2funny: This is kind of sad.....

But remember that MS aren’t really open towards Indie games. Since they have a lot of small devs supporting them.

Sony on the other hand is completely open to Indies.

Also I love the way those articles are written in a fanboy bait type way........

I would want to know why ESRAM is an irritation.

Isn’t C4 engine at like Version 3 now ???

The codebase existed since 2010-11 I think......

SO I guess that makes implementing ESRAM into this a sort of an irritation because you aren’t use to it.

Microsoft are narrow-minded and acting too almighty with their pretentious policies regarding indie games. It alienates developers...Go figure the rest.

#28 Posted by tormentos (20279 posts) -

@arkephonic said:

@tormentos:

Does overclocking the CPU and gpu so heavily have any detrimental effects long term on the system due to the parts working so hard and getting so hot? Like, can it lead to a premature system failure?

Yep the hotter the GPU and CPU run for longer the shorter the life would probably be.

The temp running now is not that hot,but running at 800mhz it would have been even lower.

#29 Posted by ni6htmare01 (1112 posts) -

@arkephonic said:

@tormentos:

Does overclocking the CPU and gpu so heavily have any detrimental effects long term on the system due to the parts working so hard and getting so hot? Like, can it lead to a premature system failure?

RROD round 2?? I hope not! lol

#30 Posted by Scipio8 (809 posts) -

Indies get free Unity engine with ID@Xbox, who needs his stinking engine. He is a Sony shill anyway.

#31 Edited by tymeservesfate (2227 posts) -

so a dev that has no current experience with the Xbox One, or eSRAM, after the first SDK kit was released doesnt like eSRAM or MS and is bashing them. not to mention he's deeply intertwined with Sony as of right now, and is one of the engineers of the ps4. smh...seeing as though he has all his eggs in Sony's basket right now i don't see how anyone could take this as anything more than PR talk lol.

#32 Posted by way2funny (4570 posts) -
@tymeservesfate said:

so a dev that has no current experience with the Xbox One, or eSRAM, after the first SDK kit was released doesnt like eSRAM or MS and is bashing them. not to mention he's deeply intertwined with Sony as of right now, and is one of the engineers of the ps4. smh...seeing as though he has all his eggs in Sony's basket right now i don't see how anyone could take this as anything more than PR talk lol.

He isn't an engineer on the PS4, he worked in the technology group before the PS3 was launched. He doesn't have all his eggs in one basket, C4 engine supports a variety of platforms, including Windows, Linux, and Mac.

He said the eSRAM is dissapointing, not that the eSRAM is the reason his engine isn't going on the xbox one.

#33 Posted by navyguy21 (13063 posts) -

@Krelian-co said:

@acp_45 said:

@Pray_to_me: ESRAM is only a bottleneck because SDK is sh!t .....

It isn’t really used for what it’s intended... devs need to manually flush cache because ESRAM is crappy to use atm

nope, the 32 mb is still too small to correctly handle 1080p no matter how good an sdk get.

Thats not true at all. One of the updates with the XBO SDK revision was the use and optimization of Tiled Resources. With that, developers can fit a full 1080p frame into only 16MB of ESRAM, leaving room for other things. This wont make up for the weaker GPU, but the ESRAM frame buffer is hardly the problem after the SDK patches and updates.

"Basically, a bit of code instructs your gaming console to render more detail in areas that your character is focusing on, while shedding detail in areas of the game that you can't immediately see. If it helps you to imagine things, think about how your eye works. You can see very clearly directly in front of you, but things in your peripheral vision are blurred and slightly unrecognizable, at least until you avert your gaze and suddenly items that were previously blurry take on all sorts of neat details. Tiled resources reportedly simulates this within a virtual world, freeing up resources for the system to use on other tasks.

"The motivation for doing something like this is to enable you to make games with unprecedented amounts of detail," said Antoine Leblond, vice president of Microsoft's Windows division, at today's Build conference."

It is fascinating stuff when you read up on it, but the fact that it wasnt available at launch basically confirms the console was rushed to market

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125435-Microsoft-Tiled-Resources-Key-To-Xbox-One-Graphics

#34 Edited by tymeservesfate (2227 posts) -

@way2funny said:
@tymeservesfate said:

so a dev that has no current experience with the Xbox One, or eSRAM, after the first SDK kit was released doesnt like eSRAM or MS and is bashing them. not to mention he's deeply intertwined with Sony as of right now, and is one of the engineers of the ps4. smh...seeing as though he has all his eggs in Sony's basket right now i don't see how anyone could take this as anything more than PR talk lol.

He isn't an engineer on the PS4, he worked in the technology group before the PS3 was launched. He doesn't have all his eggs in one basket, C4 engine supports a variety of platforms, including Windows, Linux, and Mac.

He said the eSRAM is dissapointing, not that the eSRAM is the reason his engine isn't going on the xbox one.

besides him being on multiple platforms...which, I guess, I'm wrong about. there's nothing but a lot of excuses there. I mean, if he helped make even the littlest piece of the system he's part of the engineer group lol. he's obviously invested in the system...i mean, he helped build it n his game is exclusive to it lol. unless it will be on other platforms like ur suggesting cows are hyping ps4/pc are console exclusive now.

#35 Posted by Mr-Kutaragi (2462 posts) -

TLHBO

#36 Posted by Shewgenja (11062 posts) -

Lems won't worry about this. They have the all in one entertainment machine and gaming is an afterthought to more important things like quarterly reports, water coolers and cloud.

#37 Posted by misterpmedia (4521 posts) -

@acp_45 said:

@Joedgabe: I hope Kameo 2 and Lost Od 2 will come true...

I also believe it when he says that Xbox One has some things up it’s sleeve but the insider is glorifying that to a secret sauce type thing...... DayZ dev also said Xbox One has some exciting stuff and asked MS why they don’t announce this to everyone.....

CD Projekt Red also hinted this......

But I guess Sony also has some cool things coming the VR headset seems interesting but it’s not something I would want.....

But MxM’s insider is way too biased..... by the looks of it..

the whole entire site is a cult sect doctored for only the 100% pure lem fanboys.

#38 Posted by way2funny (4570 posts) -

@tymeservesfate said:

@way2funny said:
@tymeservesfate said:

so a dev that has no current experience with the Xbox One, or eSRAM, after the first SDK kit was released doesnt like eSRAM or MS and is bashing them. not to mention he's deeply intertwined with Sony as of right now, and is one of the engineers of the ps4. smh...seeing as though he has all his eggs in Sony's basket right now i don't see how anyone could take this as anything more than PR talk lol.

He isn't an engineer on the PS4, he worked in the technology group before the PS3 was launched. He doesn't have all his eggs in one basket, C4 engine supports a variety of platforms, including Windows, Linux, and Mac.

He said the eSRAM is dissapointing, not that the eSRAM is the reason his engine isn't going on the xbox one.

besides him being on multiple platforms...which, I guess, I'm wrong about. there's nothing but a lot of excuses there. I mean, if he helped make even the littlest piece of the system he's part of the engineer group lol. he's obviously invested in the system...i mean, he helped build it n his game is exclusive to it lol. unless it will be on other platforms like ur suggesting cows are hyping ps4/pc are console exclusive now.

No. What I'm suggesting is he worked on graphics technology at Sony's tech group, which was used in those games. Not in that he was directly related to making the graphics in the games. Also, he has nothing to do with the PS4. Not only is it on all three big OS's, it is also getting Android and iOS support as well. I'm not even saying he makes good games, he obviously just works on real time graphics technologies. What I'm saying is, he is certainly not some run of the mill Indie, he makes professional products and is credited on a lot of AAA games, and he has an opinion on how Microsoft has been treating him as an Indie and Microsoft's decisions about the Xbox One Architecture.

I'm not even a fan of Sony, I don't even play console games anymore. I don't even know what you are trying to say.

#39 Edited by ReadingRainbow4 (16321 posts) -

I've been shitting on that esram for a while now and for good reason. It's kind of common sense It's one massive bottleneck.

#40 Edited by tymeservesfate (2227 posts) -

@way2funny said:

@tymeservesfate said:

@way2funny said:
@tymeservesfate said:

so a dev that has no current experience with the Xbox One, or eSRAM, after the first SDK kit was released doesnt like eSRAM or MS and is bashing them. not to mention he's deeply intertwined with Sony as of right now, and is one of the engineers of the ps4. smh...seeing as though he has all his eggs in Sony's basket right now i don't see how anyone could take this as anything more than PR talk lol.

He isn't an engineer on the PS4, he worked in the technology group before the PS3 was launched. He doesn't have all his eggs in one basket, C4 engine supports a variety of platforms, including Windows, Linux, and Mac.

He said the eSRAM is dissapointing, not that the eSRAM is the reason his engine isn't going on the xbox one.

besides him being on multiple platforms...which, I guess, I'm wrong about. there's nothing but a lot of excuses there. I mean, if he helped make even the littlest piece of the system he's part of the engineer group lol. he's obviously invested in the system...i mean, he helped build it n his game is exclusive to it lol. unless it will be on other platforms like ur suggesting cows are hyping ps4/pc are console exclusive now.

No. What I'm suggesting is he worked on graphics technology at Sony's tech group, which was used in those games. Not in that he was directly related to making the graphics in the games. Also, he has nothing to do with the PS4. Not only is it on all three big OS's, it is also getting Android and iOS support as well. I'm not even saying he makes good games, he obviously just works on real time graphics technologies. What I'm saying is, he is certainly not some run of the mill Indie, he makes professional products and is credited on a lot of AAA games, and he has an opinion on how Microsoft has been treating him as an Indie and Microsoft's decisions about the Xbox One Architecture.

I'm not even a fan of Sony, I don't even play console games anymore. I don't even know what you are trying to say.

i'm sorry, i had to go back and read these articles....did u even read them? they're contradicting everything you seem to be saying to me lol. i mean, ur talking to me as if i am off base talking about them being exclusive to the ps4 and that they are personally invested in the system when:

“C4 is currently exclusive to the PS4 for the sole reason that Sony was much more cooperative than Microsoft when we were first exploring conversion to next-gen consoles."

&

"Interestingly enough, games made with the C4 Engine will only be available on the PlayStation 4, due to poor dealings with Microsoft's bureaucratic infrastructure, so says the developers"

i mean, how can you talk to me as if i'm wrong? how can you say the company isn't personally/directly/professionally invested in Sony and the ps4 after reading those two small excerpts lol? this thread and those articles are about a particular upcoming/future games using THEIR C4 Engine and why its exclusive to Sony's console and not Microsofts. something i called BS pr, which it is.

now, if the game isnt actually exclusive to the ps4 and is on other platforms...fine, then that's some hypocritical nonsense being done in this thread. because the term "console exclusive" is supposed to be frowned upon here. but if you're talking about past games...then, why? they're the passed n this is now. and right now they're invested in Sony so much so that they won't be lending their games or engine to Microsoft and the Xbox One, currently. so then now i have no idea why ur bringing those past games into this discussion about C4 and their current status with Sony.

#41 Posted by way2funny (4570 posts) -

@tymeservesfate said:

@way2funny said:

@tymeservesfate said:

@way2funny said:
@tymeservesfate said:

so a dev that has no current experience with the Xbox One, or eSRAM, after the first SDK kit was released doesnt like eSRAM or MS and is bashing them. not to mention he's deeply intertwined with Sony as of right now, and is one of the engineers of the ps4. smh...seeing as though he has all his eggs in Sony's basket right now i don't see how anyone could take this as anything more than PR talk lol.

He isn't an engineer on the PS4, he worked in the technology group before the PS3 was launched. He doesn't have all his eggs in one basket, C4 engine supports a variety of platforms, including Windows, Linux, and Mac.

He said the eSRAM is dissapointing, not that the eSRAM is the reason his engine isn't going on the xbox one.

besides him being on multiple platforms...which, I guess, I'm wrong about. there's nothing but a lot of excuses there. I mean, if he helped make even the littlest piece of the system he's part of the engineer group lol. he's obviously invested in the system...i mean, he helped build it n his game is exclusive to it lol. unless it will be on other platforms like ur suggesting cows are hyping ps4/pc are console exclusive now.

No. What I'm suggesting is he worked on graphics technology at Sony's tech group, which was used in those games. Not in that he was directly related to making the graphics in the games. Also, he has nothing to do with the PS4. Not only is it on all three big OS's, it is also getting Android and iOS support as well. I'm not even saying he makes good games, he obviously just works on real time graphics technologies. What I'm saying is, he is certainly not some run of the mill Indie, he makes professional products and is credited on a lot of AAA games, and he has an opinion on how Microsoft has been treating him as an Indie and Microsoft's decisions about the Xbox One Architecture.

I'm not even a fan of Sony, I don't even play console games anymore. I don't even know what you are trying to say.

i'm sorry, i had to go back and read these articles....did u even read them? they're contradicting everything you seem to be saying to me lol. i mean, ur talking to me as if i am off base talking about them being exclusive to the ps4 and that they are personally invested in the system when:

“C4 is currently exclusive to the PS4 for the sole reason that Sony was much more cooperative than Microsoft when we were first exploring conversion to next-gen consoles."

&

"Interestingly enough, games made with the C4 Engine will only be available on the PlayStation 4, due to poor dealings with Microsoft's bureaucratic infrastructure, so says the developers"

i mean, how can you talk to me as if i'm wrong? how can you say the company isn't personally/directly/professionally invested in Sony and the ps4 after reading those two small excerpts lol? this thread and those articles are about a particular upcoming/future games using THEIR C4 Engine and why its exclusive to Sony's console and not Microsofts. something i called BS pr, which it is.

now, if the game isnt actually exclusive to the ps4 and is on other platforms...fine, then that's some hypocritical nonsense being done in this thread. because the term "console exclusive" is supposed to be frowned upon here. but if you're talking about past games...then, why? they're the passed n this is now. and right now they're invested in Sony so much so that they won't be lending their games or engine to Microsoft and the Xbox One, currently. so then now i have no idea why ur bringing those past games into this discussion about C4 and their current status with Sony.

C4 is and has been available for all PC platforms. I have a license for it right now and forever. He most likely meant console exclusive. But that really doesn't matter to the point that Microsoft has been unresponsive and that their RAM choice is disappointing.

#42 Posted by ACP_45 (610 posts) -

@tormentos: If what CD project Red hinted as well as DayZ dev happens then what you said is irrelevant.

#43 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (9042 posts) -

Another indie dev????? Just like the one that got paid by Sony to say 50% more power. Sony themselves couldn't make this claim since they have enough lies started. Let the little guys hype up crap the fanboys just ooze over.

More signs of desperation from a dying company.

#44 Posted by kuu2 (7982 posts) -

What games did he make on The One?

#45 Edited by tymeservesfate (2227 posts) -

@way2funny said:

@tymeservesfate said:

@way2funny said:

@tymeservesfate said:

@way2funny said:
@tymeservesfate said:

so a dev that has no current experience with the Xbox One, or eSRAM, after the first SDK kit was released doesnt like eSRAM or MS and is bashing them. not to mention he's deeply intertwined with Sony as of right now, and is one of the engineers of the ps4. smh...seeing as though he has all his eggs in Sony's basket right now i don't see how anyone could take this as anything more than PR talk lol.

He isn't an engineer on the PS4, he worked in the technology group before the PS3 was launched. He doesn't have all his eggs in one basket, C4 engine supports a variety of platforms, including Windows, Linux, and Mac.

He said the eSRAM is dissapointing, not that the eSRAM is the reason his engine isn't going on the xbox one.

besides him being on multiple platforms...which, I guess, I'm wrong about. there's nothing but a lot of excuses there. I mean, if he helped make even the littlest piece of the system he's part of the engineer group lol. he's obviously invested in the system...i mean, he helped build it n his game is exclusive to it lol. unless it will be on other platforms like ur suggesting cows are hyping ps4/pc are console exclusive now.

No. What I'm suggesting is he worked on graphics technology at Sony's tech group, which was used in those games. Not in that he was directly related to making the graphics in the games. Also, he has nothing to do with the PS4. Not only is it on all three big OS's, it is also getting Android and iOS support as well. I'm not even saying he makes good games, he obviously just works on real time graphics technologies. What I'm saying is, he is certainly not some run of the mill Indie, he makes professional products and is credited on a lot of AAA games, and he has an opinion on how Microsoft has been treating him as an Indie and Microsoft's decisions about the Xbox One Architecture.

I'm not even a fan of Sony, I don't even play console games anymore. I don't even know what you are trying to say.

i'm sorry, i had to go back and read these articles....did u even read them? they're contradicting everything you seem to be saying to me lol. i mean, ur talking to me as if i am off base talking about them being exclusive to the ps4 and that they are personally invested in the system when:

“C4 is currently exclusive to the PS4 for the sole reason that Sony was much more cooperative than Microsoft when we were first exploring conversion to next-gen consoles."

&

"Interestingly enough, games made with the C4 Engine will only be available on the PlayStation 4, due to poor dealings with Microsoft's bureaucratic infrastructure, so says the developers"

i mean, how can you talk to me as if i'm wrong? how can you say the company isn't personally/directly/professionally invested in Sony and the ps4 after reading those two small excerpts lol? this thread and those articles are about a particular upcoming/future games using THEIR C4 Engine and why its exclusive to Sony's console and not Microsofts. something i called BS pr, which it is.

now, if the game isnt actually exclusive to the ps4 and is on other platforms...fine, then that's some hypocritical nonsense being done in this thread. because the term "console exclusive" is supposed to be frowned upon here. but if you're talking about past games...then, why? they're the passed n this is now. and right now they're invested in Sony so much so that they won't be lending their games or engine to Microsoft and the Xbox One, currently. so then now i have no idea why ur bringing those past games into this discussion about C4 and their current status with Sony.

C4 is and has been available for all PC platforms. I have a license for it right now and forever. He most likely meant console exclusive. But that really doesn't matter to the point that Microsoft has been unresponsive and that their RAM choice is disappointing.

-_-

#47 Edited by ReadingRainbow4 (16321 posts) -

@kuu2 said:

What games did he make on The One?

One that won't run on it,

#48 Edited by ronvalencia (15623 posts) -
@way2funny said:

@magicalclick said:

Indie demands high profile attentions while indie games market doesn't need top of the line graphics. Nothing new.

The games hes credited with don't seem really indie

  • Formula One Championship Edition (2007), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc.
  • Heavenly Sword (2007), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc.
  • Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (2007), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc.
  • Warhawk (2007), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc.
  • MotorStorm (2006), Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated
  • Resistance: Fall of Man (2006), Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated
  • Jak 3 (2004), Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc.
  • Quest for Glory V: Dragon Fire (1998), Sierra On-Line, Inc.

Interesting .... Sony centric games...

#49 Edited by ronvalencia (15623 posts) -
@arkephonic said:

@tormentos:

Does overclocking the CPU and gpu so heavily have any detrimental effects long term on the system due to the parts working so hard and getting so hot? Like, can it lead to a premature system failure?

At the chip's transistor level, heavy overclocking with increased voltage can lead to "electromigration" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration) which can result in shorter chip life. In general, server/workstation variants are clocked lower than their desktop counterparts.

7950's workstation variant FirePro W8000 (28 CU, Tahiti Pro) has 900Mhz clock speed, which is higher than the reference 7950 (800Mhz) and rivals 7950 BE (850Mhz base and 925Mhz Turbo).

I don't think X1's SoC is in danger of electromigration since there are other "hotter" chips than X1's SoC e.g. Radeon HD R9-290X reference boards with sustained 95C operations. 95C is no where near the melting point of bump solider and PCB level solider joins.

-----------------------------------

@tymeservesfate

Rebellion works with Microsoft and Sony just fine.

http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-ones-esram-too-small-to-output-games-at-1080p-but-will-catch-up-to-ps4-rebellion-games

"Rebellion Games are working closely with Microsoft and Sony while developing Sniper Elite 3"

#50 Posted by Scipio8 (809 posts) -

@tymeservesfate said:

@way2funny said:

@tymeservesfate said:

@way2funny said:
@tymeservesfate said:

so a dev that has no current experience with the Xbox One, or eSRAM, after the first SDK kit was released doesnt like eSRAM or MS and is bashing them. not to mention he's deeply intertwined with Sony as of right now, and is one of the engineers of the ps4. smh...seeing as though he has all his eggs in Sony's basket right now i don't see how anyone could take this as anything more than PR talk lol.

He isn't an engineer on the PS4, he worked in the technology group before the PS3 was launched. He doesn't have all his eggs in one basket, C4 engine supports a variety of platforms, including Windows, Linux, and Mac.

He said the eSRAM is dissapointing, not that the eSRAM is the reason his engine isn't going on the xbox one.

besides him being on multiple platforms...which, I guess, I'm wrong about. there's nothing but a lot of excuses there. I mean, if he helped make even the littlest piece of the system he's part of the engineer group lol. he's obviously invested in the system...i mean, he helped build it n his game is exclusive to it lol. unless it will be on other platforms like ur suggesting cows are hyping ps4/pc are console exclusive now.

No. What I'm suggesting is he worked on graphics technology at Sony's tech group, which was used in those games. Not in that he was directly related to making the graphics in the games. Also, he has nothing to do with the PS4. Not only is it on all three big OS's, it is also getting Android and iOS support as well. I'm not even saying he makes good games, he obviously just works on real time graphics technologies. What I'm saying is, he is certainly not some run of the mill Indie, he makes professional products and is credited on a lot of AAA games, and he has an opinion on how Microsoft has been treating him as an Indie and Microsoft's decisions about the Xbox One Architecture.

I'm not even a fan of Sony, I don't even play console games anymore. I don't even know what you are trying to say.

i'm sorry, i had to go back and read these articles....did u even read them? they're contradicting everything you seem to be saying to me lol. i mean, ur talking to me as if i am off base talking about them being exclusive to the ps4 and that they are personally invested in the system when:

“C4 is currently exclusive to the PS4 for the sole reason that Sony was much more cooperative than Microsoft when we were first exploring conversion to next-gen consoles."

&

"Interestingly enough, games made with the C4 Engine will only be available on the PlayStation 4, due to poor dealings with Microsoft's bureaucratic infrastructure, so says the developers"

i mean, how can you talk to me as if i'm wrong? how can you say the company isn't personally/directly/professionally invested in Sony and the ps4 after reading those two small excerpts lol? this thread and those articles are about a particular upcoming/future games using THEIR C4 Engine and why its exclusive to Sony's console and not Microsofts. something i called BS pr, which it is.

now, if the game isnt actually exclusive to the ps4 and is on other platforms...fine, then that's some hypocritical nonsense being done in this thread. because the term "console exclusive" is supposed to be frowned upon here. but if you're talking about past games...then, why? they're the passed n this is now. and right now they're invested in Sony so much so that they won't be lending their games or engine to Microsoft and the Xbox One, currently. so then now i have no idea why ur bringing those past games into this discussion about C4 and their current status with Sony.

This is exactly, he is invested in Sony so stalks sh** about MS and Xbox One. Nothing has changed, the same thing happened last gen. Its as if Sony have it in the contract to smack talk. The Xbox One is giving away free Unity engine, the cross platform game engine of choice. With the recent rumours that MS will be enabling Xbox Live across iOS and Android the Unity Engine will be ideal for Xbox + Smartphones + tablets gaming.