Are Witcher and Dragon Age aspiring to be Skyrim?

  • 88 results
  • 1
  • 2
Posted by uninspiredcup (7837 posts) 1 month, 4 days ago

Poll: Are Witcher and Dragon Age aspiring to be Skyrim? (58 votes)

Yes 100% no qeastion about it. It's not even a qeastion when you think about it. Of course it has, no need for a poll, this is factually based based specifically based on fact. 22%
No, of course not 55%
John Goodman still alive at least. Very powerful liver. 22%

My friends, recently I brought up the concept that both the Witcher and Dragon Age through design change are aspiring to be Skyrim.

Originally, Dragon Age was marketed as a CRPG style game. Then, with Dragon Age 2, it became an action console game. Then, with Dragon Age 3, is appears to be an open world action game.

The Witcher, originally a click based state style RPG. Moved on to being a Fable style console action game with 2. And now, is an out and out open world game.

Is it really wrong to claim that this is primarily due to Skyrim? It seems incredibly obvious this is the reason.


Opinions are required.

#51 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@parkurtommo

"I enjoyed Skyrim, therefor it is a good game."

HAHA HAHAHA !

Anyway... Theres a massive difference between Complexity and Depth, most RPGs are complex but they lack some serious depth.

"Some games are just more than the sum of it's parts."

And some parts are more important than others, gameplay is obviously the most important part and its also the part thats not okay to skimp on in favour of graphics, Story, characters, Open World Size, etc. What most people forget is Preference=/= Quality.

#52 Posted by parkurtommo (26464 posts) -

@parkurtommo

"I enjoyed Skyrim, therefor it is a good game."

HAHA HAHAHA !

Anyway... Theres a massive difference between Complexity and Depth, most RPGs are complex but they lack some serious depth.

"Some games are just more than the sum of it's parts."

And some parts are more important than others, gameplay is obviously the most important part and its also the part thats not okay to skimp on in favour of graphics, Story, characters, Open World Size, etc. What most people forget is Preference=/= Quality.

Quality is non measurabe and subjective. You could say that Skyrim is high quality because it was buit by hundreds of people with a triple A budget. But you could also say that it's low quality because of it's glitchiness and floaty controls.

And I hate it when people make those distinctions as if they were seperate aspects. Graphics are just as important as gameplay, because graphics ARE gameplay, graphics, sound, controls, level design, and interaction are al integral to the gameplay. Yes you can make a distinction and evaluate each one, but they aren't mutually exclusive. You can't say that Bethesda sacrificed graphics for gameplay, they wanted to create an experience that relies heavily on immersion and thus is extremelz dependant on visual fidelity (and even then, Skyrim is nothing specia without mods).

It's as if you and many others are against the developers, as if they are wronging you by making design choices.

Don't get me wrong though, I enjoy discussing this and I have nothing against people who treat games in this fairly methodical, overly analytical way, but that's simply not how I evaluate a game most of the time.

#53 Posted by PonchoTaco (1967 posts) -

There is no difference between the two. Might as well call it Skyrim 2.

#54 Edited by princeofshapeir (13758 posts) -

The only thing they have similar with Skyrim is an open-world fantasy setting. Both games are going to have vastly better gameplay, story, and world interaction. And Skyrim didn't invent open-world fantasy so I wish people would stop holding such a mediocre title as a standard for the industry.

#55 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@parkurtommo

I don't determine a games quality by who built or how much money it cost to build so I have no issue coming to an accurate conclusion.

As for graphics, only Framerate affects the the gameplay, so unless the game looks like the 1st Street Fighter game, then Graphics won't affect the gameplay, it will just shatter the illusion that players hav created for themselves.

"It's as if you and many others are against the developers, as if they are wronging you by making design choices."

I'm not against developers I was talking about Skyrim and only Skyrim, even so it goes both ways, some people a major fanboys that think developers Sh!t gold. You're right though, Bethesda didn't sacrifice gameplay for graphics or world size... The gameplay just sucks, it wouldve been better if they actually did sacrifice the gameplay and have something to show for it. Very Unfortunate.

#56 Edited by parkurtommo (26464 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@parkurtommo

I don't determine a games quality by who built or how much money it cost to build so I have no issue coming to an accurate conclusion.

As for graphics, only Framerate affects the the gameplay, so unless the game looks like the 1st Street Fighter game, then Graphics won't affect the gameplay, it will just shatter the illusion that players hav created for themselves.

"It's as if you and many others are against the developers, as if they are wronging you by making design choices."

I'm not against developers I was talking about Skyrim and only Skyrim, even so it goes both ways, some people a major fanboys that think developers Sh!t gold. You're right though, Bethesda didn't sacrifice gameplay for graphics or world size... The gameplay just sucks, it wouldve been better if they actually did sacrifice the gameplay and have something to show for it. Very Unfortunate.

Regarding the graphics thing. Video Games ARE illusions though... So increasing that illusion (with pretty graphics or a captivating art style) can only be beneficial? No?

Ugh.. It's frustrating that you don't like Skyrim! Why doesn't everyone like what I like? :P

It seems to be an extreme case of "hit or miss", like the Fallout series. I hate the fallout series, but I like Skyrim.

#57 Posted by Bigboi500 (29328 posts) -

That's a weak-assed theory you have there. Essentially you're saying: "this game has elements of previous games, therefor it's aspiring to be those games." Which would mean every game in creation is trying to be games of the past.

That's just dumb.

#58 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@parkurtommo

I like the Skyrim Modding community... Damn those guys are dedicated.

I have no illusions when playing a game.... Sadly this can be a disadvantage when playing certain games, the most Recent Example being lonliness.... The message being conveyed went completely over my head, I also experienced a similar disconnect playing Brothers A Tale of Two sons but it wasn't as bad... I managed to grasp just a few basic concepts.

Fallout just sucks, I think Dishonoured is miles better.... But Dishonoured sucks too, just alot less than Fallout.

#59 Posted by parkurtommo (26464 posts) -

@parkurtommo

I like the Skyrim Modding community... Damn those guys are dedicated.

I have no illusions when playing a game.... Sadly this can be a disadvantage when playing certain games, the most Recent Example being lonliness.... The message being conveyed went completely over my head, I also experienced a similar disconnect playing Brothers A Tale of Two sons but it wasn't as bad... I managed to grasp just a few basic concepts.

Fallout just sucks, I think Dishonoured is miles better.... But Dishonoured sucks too, just alot less than Fallout.

Dishonered is in a competely different genre though. :s

#60 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@parkurtommo

And what genre is that ?

#61 Edited by parkurtommo (26464 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@parkurtommo

And what genre is that ?

First Person Stealth?

I suppose you could still compare some aspects to Fallout. But in reality it wouldn't be fair, because the things that Dishonered does better (movement, visuals, intuitive stealth and weapons) are a focus in that game where as Falout focuses a lot on story and individual exploration... You're not really putting in to consideration the fact that Falout is a decently sized open world apocalyptic RPG and Dishonored is a linear-- albeit with open levels- FPS kind of game with less of a focus on complete immersion.

Therefor it's not a "fair" comparison. You can still make the comparison, but ultimately it doesn't really bring you anything..

#62 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@parkurtommo

Dishonoured is an RPG... After all Its my understanding there are many different kinds after all.

#63 Posted by parkurtommo (26464 posts) -

@parkurtommo

Dishonoured is an RPG... After all Its my understanding there are many different kinds after all.

In that case almost all games are RPGs. ;_;

Ahh whatever, genres can be very nuanced and it's not worth arguing about.

#64 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@parkurtommo

Actually it is, otherwise we might aswell retire the entire concept of categorising anything ever again.

With that being said, Dishonoured is blend of different genres, so a simple RPG or FPS or Stealth game is not gona cut it, you need to describe it, all of it, using as few words as necessary. I would call it a 1st Person Action Role Playing Game (FPARPG).

That might be confusing because "Action" doesn't mean the samething in games as it does in Movies. In gaming, action doesn't mean Fast past suspensfull high octane gameplay. The term is actually used literally, it an action you perform, like shooting, jumping, melee etc. However the term is only used when the core gameplay consists of more than one action. Of Which Dishonoured has many.

#65 Posted by parkurtommo (26464 posts) -

@parkurtommo

Actually it is, otherwise we might aswell retire the entire concept of categorising anything ever again.

With that being said, Dishonoured is blend of different genres, so a simple RPG or FPS or Stealth game is not gona cut it, you need to describe it, all of it, using as few words as necessary. I would call it a 1st Person Action Role Playing Game (FPARPG).

That might be confusing because "Action" doesn't mean the samething in games as it does in Movies. In gaming, action doesn't mean Fast past suspensfull high octane gameplay. The term is actually used literally, it an action you perform, like shooting, jumping, melee etc. However the term is only used when the core gameplay consists of more than one action. Of Which Dishonoured has many.

Well that's the inherent problem with genres, they are both limited and too broad to be used generously.But that doesn't make comparisons between very different games valid though. These games have different priorities, and those priorities make them stand out, they are not on equal ground. And even though I certainly prefer Dishonored over the Fallout series, I'd rather play BOTH then to chose (even if I don't ike one of them).

#66 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@parkurtommo

True, but we can judge them individually. I still can say Fallout 3 is terrible without holding it to Dishonoured's standards.

#67 Posted by parkurtommo (26464 posts) -

@parkurtommo

True, but we can judge them individually. I still can say Fallout 3 is terrible without holding it to Dishonoured's standards.

Yes you can. NOW GOOD BYE LET THE THREAD DIE: :P

#68 Edited by Yrkoon99 (439 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

@Vatusus said:

@uninspiredcup said:

@chessmaster1989 said:

I think The Witcher 3 should start by aspiring to be a good game. The series hasn't had much success in that department.

I would agree with this. It's not a bad game or series but the praise it gets as if it's some godly entity is somewhat baffling.

This is primarily due to the like of the company rather than the game. It seems.

It was praised when it was a PC exclusive. Now that is on consoles aswell, its trash... PC fanboys are just like any other fanboys, a bunch of hypocrites

A very good point my friend.

do you 2 want a room?

#69 Posted by coasterguy65 (5875 posts) -

Because they are all basically RPGs? Because that's really the only thing they have in common.

#70 Posted by lundy86_4 (43009 posts) -

No.

#71 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@coasterguy65

Even then thats not enough to compare them considering how many different types of RPGs there are. Something all TCs should take into consideration.

#72 Posted by ryangcnx-2 (1208 posts) -

@chessmaster1989 said:

I think The Witcher 3 should start by aspiring to be a good game. The series hasn't had much success in that department.

I would agree with this. It's not a bad game or series but the praise it gets as if it's some godly entity is somewhat baffling.

This is primarily due to the like of the company rather than the game. It seems.

Actual Gameplay combat it is horrid. Not the worse but easily outdone by Dragon Age. What the Witcher games get praise for is the story, setting, characters. Witcher 2 is a huge improvement over the 1st game, minus the fact it was smaller, it handled better. I am excited for the Witcher 3 because of the whole package. But honestly, there are many other RPG's out there that do much better combat.

#73 Posted by AmazonAngry (945 posts) -

aspiring to be bug ridden,use clunky first-person combat, outdated animations,unplayable third person, forgettable characters?I sincerely hope not

#74 Edited by lamprey263 (23142 posts) -

you mean are they inspired to have shitty auto generated quests at the expense of a crafted sidequests, then no I don't think so

but, if people feel they're too similar, I place the blame in just how generic the fantasy genre is

#75 Posted by AmazonTreeBoa (16745 posts) -

Is Skyrim aspiring to be King's Field?

#76 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@lamprey263

Appearently the best way to design quests is to use Adventure Elements, it elevates the sense of discovery..... And I guess thats kill, but give me Rayman'esque Platforming and DmC type combat and I'l do whatever fetch/kill quest they want, they don't even have to give me a reason, if the gameplay is solid I'l do it !

#77 Posted by bussinrounds (2029 posts) -

@parkurtommo

Its overly ambitious and each one of its game mechanics are shallower than Cow Clicker.

I was also impressed by all those things... For 1 hour. A game needs a whole lot more than that if it plans to sustain someone (who has no problem with reality) for longer than one hour. A game needs depth, not width.

Welcome to Bethedsa's games...seem cool at first, the more and more you play them, the worse and worse they get.

#78 Posted by KHAndAnime (13422 posts) -

lol Skyrim isn't the first open world RPG...far from it

They're probably just aspiring to be the games that Skyrim was aspiring to be... especially considering they can now justify upping their budgets for these two franchises.

#79 Posted by ShepardCommandr (2408 posts) -

I would hope not.

Skyrim needs around 200 mods installed in order to not be shit.

#80 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@bussinrounds

There is one Bethesda game I've taken interest in... Hunted: The Demons Forge, simple co-op action game that proves that if Bethesda can just manage their space they can get some great deep gameplay out of it and very little is wasted.

#81 Posted by jsmoke03 (12748 posts) -

Elder Scrolls should aspire to be The Witcher in my eyes.

agreed.

and i dont see the similarity at all with dragon age and skyrim....you know skyrim isnt the only open world game out there right?

#82 Posted by R3FURBISHED (10327 posts) -

@jsmoke03 said:

@R3FURBISHED said:

Elder Scrolls should aspire to be The Witcher in my eyes.

agreed.

and i dont see the similarity at all with dragon age and skyrim....you know skyrim isnt the only open world game out there right?

Imagine a dark and ambivalent story told through the open world, first person Elder Scrolls with moral choices that range from grey to gray (yes, I am aware that is merely two different ways to spell the same color -- that's the point).

Sounds like a damn phenomenal game to me.

#83 Edited by bussinrounds (2029 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@bussinrounds

There is one Bethesda game I've taken interest in... Hunted: The Demons Forge, simple co-op action game that proves that if Bethesda can just manage their space they can get some great deep gameplay out of it and very little is wasted.

They didn't make that game (inXile did) , Beth only published it.

And when I say Bethesda, I'm pretty much talking about modern/post Morrowind Beth. You know, Oblivion, Fallout 3 & Skyrim.

#84 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (10284 posts) -

@bussinrounds

LoL... Seriously ? Damnit ! ! !

Its official then... Bethesda sucks, they have no redeeming qualities what so ever. Atleast Rockstar was able to break pattern when they made Max Payne 3.

#85 Posted by CTR360 (6983 posts) -

YES but its not big deal for me

#86 Posted by WitIsWisdom (3685 posts) -

Skyrim is almost as awful as you polls.

#87 Posted by jwsoul (5297 posts) -

@chessmaster1989 said:

I think The Witcher 3 should start by aspiring to be a good game. The series hasn't had much success in that department.

I would agree with this. It's not a bad game or series but the praise it gets as if it's some godly entity is somewhat baffling.

This is primarily due to the like of the company rather than the game. It seems.

No not at all they are excellent games some of the best RPGs available. I fail to see how you can consider both games as any less than classics!

#88 Posted by clone01 (24505 posts) -