Are Romance/Sex Scenes neccessary in BIOWARE games Warriors?

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indzman

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#1 indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

Worried we will again get a Unneccassary romance/sex scene in MASS EFFECT ANDROMEDA. I'm playing a sci fi action rpg, why should i waste my time in romancing a Alien/Human for few minutes and watch badly done sex scenes for a couple of minutes? I don't get off on this, rather watch a Porn.Choices on ending, which Ally will live or die on other hand is good option for replaybility... imo.

Well? Are Romance/Sex Scenes neccessary in BIOWARE games Warriors? :)

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freedomfreak

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#2 freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52426 Posts

But they are optional.

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indzman

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#3  Edited By indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

@freedomfreak said:

But they are optional.

True. But why even keep them in first place?

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Juub1990

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#4 Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 12620 Posts

"Why should I waste my time doing optional things".indzman's genius level intellect at work folks.

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#5  Edited By freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52426 Posts

@indzman: Roleplay

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indzman

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#6 indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

@Juub1990 said:

"Why should I waste my time doing optional things".indzman's genius level intellect at work folks.

Indz is a genius, right? :P

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#7 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

Because even though you may feel they are a waste of time, other players might not, and if they are optional, why does it matter that they are in the game at all?

Romance and sex are an integral part of the human experience. While Bioware games, like most video games, are pretty dismal at actual storytelling, they seek to engage in serious, human storytelling nonetheless- so of course romance and sex will be a part of them.

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indzman

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#8 indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

@freedomfreak said:

@indzman: Roleplay

mhm.

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#9 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@indzman: What do you feel about the Social Links and romances in Persona?

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indzman

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#10 indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

@charizard1605 said:

Because even though you may feel they are a waste of time, other players might not, and if they are optional, why does it matter that they are in the game at all?

Romance and sex are an integral part of the human experience. While Bioware games, like most video games, are pretty dismal at actual storytelling, they seek to engage in serious, human storytelling nonetheless- so of course romance and sex will be a part of them.

You enjoy romance factor in BIOWARE games Char?

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indzman

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#11  Edited By indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

@charizard1605: They are good. Nothing Vulgar.Romance in Video Games is good if done in a subtle way for storytelling.

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#12 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@indzman said:
@charizard1605 said:

Because even though you may feel they are a waste of time, other players might not, and if they are optional, why does it matter that they are in the game at all?

Romance and sex are an integral part of the human experience. While Bioware games, like most video games, are pretty dismal at actual storytelling, they seek to engage in serious, human storytelling nonetheless- so of course romance and sex will be a part of them.

You enjoy romance factor in BIOWARE games Char?

Nah. The only games where I engage in the romance mechanics at all are Persona games, because they actually feel fleshed out, well done, and mostly authentic, apart from also being integrated really well into the game's setting and mechanics.

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#13 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
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@indzman said:

@charizard1605: They are good. Nothing Vulgar.Romance in Video Games is good if done in a subtle way for storytelling.

I mean, 'vulgarity' is a subjective concept, and there is no reason why all shades of romance cannot be explored by video games.

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#14  Edited By indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

@charizard1605 said:
@indzman said:
@charizard1605 said:

Because even though you may feel they are a waste of time, other players might not, and if they are optional, why does it matter that they are in the game at all?

Romance and sex are an integral part of the human experience. While Bioware games, like most video games, are pretty dismal at actual storytelling, they seek to engage in serious, human storytelling nonetheless- so of course romance and sex will be a part of them.

You enjoy romance factor in BIOWARE games Char?

Nah. The only games where I engage in the romance mechanics at all are Persona games, because they actually feel fleshed out, well done, and mostly authentic, apart from also being integrated really well into the game's setting and mechanics.

Don't get me Wrong, i enjoy Romance in Video games. Final Fantasy X for example, so good and tragic with melodious music. In Bioware Games i don't feel that effect of romance TBH.

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Maroxad

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#15 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23912 Posts

No they aren't. They have never been well written enough to really add anything to the games.

That doesn't mean that Romance and sex is bad for RPGs. Afterall, Rance is one of my favorite jRPG franchises.

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indzman

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#16 indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

Square Enix, ATLUS gets Romance right.

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#17 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@indzman said:
@charizard1605 said:
@indzman said:
@charizard1605 said:

Because even though you may feel they are a waste of time, other players might not, and if they are optional, why does it matter that they are in the game at all?

Romance and sex are an integral part of the human experience. While Bioware games, like most video games, are pretty dismal at actual storytelling, they seek to engage in serious, human storytelling nonetheless- so of course romance and sex will be a part of them.

You enjoy romance factor in BIOWARE games Char?

Nah. The only games where I engage in the romance mechanics at all are Persona games, because they actually feel fleshed out, well done, and mostly authentic, apart from also being integrated really well into the game's setting and mechanics.

Don't get me Wrong, i enjoy Romance in Video games. Final Fantasy X for example, so good and tragic with melodious music. In Bioware Games i don't feel that effect of romance TBH.

Because it largely feels unearned in terms of storytelling, with the sex 'scene' being a 'reward' for 'maxing out' a meter in game. The problem is that the romances exist in their own bubble separately from the rest of the game's storytelling.

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#18  Edited By indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

@charizard1605 said:
@indzman said:
@charizard1605 said:
@indzman said:

You enjoy romance factor in BIOWARE games Char?

Nah. The only games where I engage in the romance mechanics at all are Persona games, because they actually feel fleshed out, well done, and mostly authentic, apart from also being integrated really well into the game's setting and mechanics.

Don't get me Wrong, i enjoy Romance in Video games. Final Fantasy X for example, so good and tragic with melodious music. In Bioware Games i don't feel that effect of romance TBH.

Because it largely feels unearned in terms of storytelling, with the sex 'scene' being a 'reward' for 'maxing out' a meter in game. The problem is that the romances exist in their own bubble separately from the rest of the game's storytelling.

Tottally Agree, thats why i get annoyed i suppose. Talk to favourite NPC after every quest, say the right thing to max out romance meter than normal romance in course of story.

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#19  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23912 Posts

@charizard1605 said:

Because it largely feels unearned in terms of storytelling, with the sex 'scene' being a 'reward' for 'maxing out' a meter in game. The problem is that the romances exist in their own bubble separately from the rest of the game's storytelling.

Another problem is how idealized these romances often are. Another user said it best. The romances in BioWare games often feel like they are written by people who have never had experiences with romances in the real world.

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#20 indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

@Maroxad said:
@charizard1605 said:

Because it largely feels unearned in terms of storytelling, with the sex 'scene' being a 'reward' for 'maxing out' a meter in game. The problem is that the romances exist in their own bubble separately from the rest of the game's storytelling.

Another problem is how idealized these romances often are. Another user said it best. The romances in BioWare games often feel like they are written by people who have never had experiences with romances in the real world.

Yep. Don't feel Romance in BIOWARE games man, seems mechanised for sake of it and sex scenes forced.

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indzman

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#21 indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

@Maroxad said:

No they aren't. They have never been well written enough to really add anything to the games.

That doesn't mean that Romance and sex is bad for RPGs. Afterall, Rance is one of my favorite jRPG franchises.

Rance?

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#22  Edited By deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@Maroxad said:
@charizard1605 said:

Because it largely feels unearned in terms of storytelling, with the sex 'scene' being a 'reward' for 'maxing out' a meter in game. The problem is that the romances exist in their own bubble separately from the rest of the game's storytelling.

Another problem is how idealized these romances often are. Another user said it best. The romances in BioWare games often feel like they are written by people who have never had experiences with romances in the real world.

That's another area where Persona feels authentic, at least for the primary romances (secondary NPC romances are, um, odd)

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uninspiredcup

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#23 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 58938 Posts

Bioware think they are being edgy and progressive, which hipsters eat up as mature games.

In reality it's cringey puppet sex which Team America (unintentionally) perfectly parodied.

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#24 indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

@charizard1605 said:
@Maroxad said:
@charizard1605 said:

Because it largely feels unearned in terms of storytelling, with the sex 'scene' being a 'reward' for 'maxing out' a meter in game. The problem is that the romances exist in their own bubble separately from the rest of the game's storytelling.

Another problem is how idealized these romances often are. Another user said it best. The romances in BioWare games often feel like they are written by people who have never had experiences with romances in the real world.

That's another area where Persona feels authentic, at least for the primary romances (secondary NPC romances are, um, odd)

How was Persona 5 in terms of Romance?

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the_master_race

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#25  Edited By the_master_race
Member since 2015 • 5226 Posts
@Maroxad said:

No they aren't. They have never been well written enough to really add anything to the games.

That doesn't mean that Romance and sex is bad for RPGs. Afterall, Rance is one of my favorite jRPG franchises.

Loading Video...

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indzman

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#26 indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:

Bioware think they are being edgy and progressive, which hipsters eat up as mature games.

In reality it's cringey puppet sex which Team America (unintentionally) perfectly parodied.

Yep

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#27 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
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@indzman said:
@charizard1605 said:
@Maroxad said:
@charizard1605 said:

Because it largely feels unearned in terms of storytelling, with the sex 'scene' being a 'reward' for 'maxing out' a meter in game. The problem is that the romances exist in their own bubble separately from the rest of the game's storytelling.

Another problem is how idealized these romances often are. Another user said it best. The romances in BioWare games often feel like they are written by people who have never had experiences with romances in the real world.

That's another area where Persona feels authentic, at least for the primary romances (secondary NPC romances are, um, odd)

How was Persona 5 in terms of Romance?

No clue, haven't played it yet, and mostly managed to stay blind about it.

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#28  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23912 Posts

@indzman said:

Yep. Don't feel Romance in BIOWARE games man, seems mechanised for sake of it and sex scenes forced.

Pretty much

@indzman said:

Rance?

'Adult' RPGs.

Mostly known for Sengoku Rance, which was a fairly open ended jRPG/Grand Strategy game, where your goal was to conquer all of JAPAN. Yes, that is with all caps.

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#29 OmniChris
Member since 2016 • 413 Posts

They are about as necessary as anything else in the game. Is it that hard to believe that people actually like sex and romance in their games?

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#30 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
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@omnichris said:

They are about as necessary as anything else in the game. Is it that hard to believe that people actually like sex and romance in their games?

Actually, upon further discussion with him, I don't think he is arguing against romance in games as much as he is arguing against Bioware's admittedly slipshod implementation of romance.

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#31 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23912 Posts

@the_master_race: Nice. That seems to be expanding upon some concepts BG2 did. Minsc and Edwin in the same party was infinitely more interesting than a romance with a companion. Though to be fair, the Veronica romance was actually well made. Probably the only romance that wasn't bad. Having a significant impact on the character development of that character. If we can get more Minscs and Edwins, that would be great. or better yet, being able to manipulate them.

One thing that does concern me though is the lack of options so far in PoE2. So far we have reached 7 companions and may reach the 8th companion if things go the way they do. This could cause issues if Obsidian handles this poorly.

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#32 the_master_race
Member since 2015 • 5226 Posts

I like romance options in the game if the dev implement it right , it makes the game more fun and increase its replay value however Bioware fuckin blew it with DAI

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#33  Edited By Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50556 Posts

@indzman said:
@freedomfreak said:

But they are optional.

True. But why even keep them in first place?

People think it's mature.

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navyguy21

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#34 navyguy21
Member since 2003 • 17425 Posts

Have a seat, son, its time we had "the talk"

When a man and a woman love each other.....

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#35 Howmakewood
Member since 2015 • 7702 Posts

Why is there no romance/sex scenes with your squad mates in ffxv, square enix homofobic???

On topic, don't feel they are a necessary at all and don't really care for them, but not really bothered by them existing either

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xdude85

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#36 xdude85
Member since 2006 • 6559 Posts

Because developers know that gamers never get laid.

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#37 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 24920 Posts

Roamntic/Sex scenes do not need in any video games at all. its just new fad by developers to think its necessary in RPG games. mass effect or witcher or whatever. i bet even cyberpunk 2077 will have shitty sex scene.

Can you imagine Romance in Deus Ex and System shock? that would be very out of place.

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#38 k--m--k
Member since 2007 • 2799 Posts

I like optional Romance in games, I do not like sex scenes in my games though.

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#39 the_master_race
Member since 2015 • 5226 Posts
@Maroxad said:

@the_master_race: Nice. That seems to be expanding upon some concepts BG2 did. Minsc and Edwin in the same party was infinitely more interesting than a romance with a companion. Though to be fair, the Veronica romance was actually well made. Probably the only romance that wasn't bad. Having a significant impact on the character development of that character. If we can get more Minscs and Edwins, that would be great. or better yet, being able to manipulate them.

One thing that does concern me though is the lack of options so far in PoE2. So far we have reached 7 companions and may reach the 8th companion if things go the way they do. This could cause issues if Obsidian handles this poorly.

maybe we should count that Intelligent Weapon ?!, wish Chris Avellone was on the team , he handles these stuff much better

===================================================

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#40  Edited By darklight4
Member since 2009 • 2094 Posts

Nice if you got something out of it, xp boosts or skill increase something that would give me a reason to waste time on it.

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#41  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15569 Posts

Romantic options in storytelling can add quite a bit to the experience. For one thing, it's a lot more natural. People bang and fall in love when they spend a shitload of time together in stressful situations. A story with no romance or at least bromance will more often than not feel forced and robotic. Also, romance adds further stakes to the story when done correctly, because the protagonist is no longer just fighting for the sake of the overall conflict, they're also fighting for a personal investment in someone they care about.

The problem with modern Bioware and indeed many big modern games, is that they don't spend even remotely enough effort on crafting these scenarios. In ME1, for example, you get about 3 scenes with each character that could be described as "romance," before a scene where you go to the bonezone. Worse still, the scenes are typically of the unsubtle variety. It isn't characters looking back and forth longingly, or waiting in awkward talks because of anxiety, or finding excuses to be alone together, or asking about how they feel about certain personal matters, or anything else that might lend humanity to the situations. Na, your main character just makes a flirty comment, which is usually followed by a flirty response, rinse and repeat for each scene until they decide to mak attack in the last scene. Beyond that it never comes up in any other part of the games. Other than a stray comment or two no one seems to give two shits about your characters life. Which may be painfully true of real life but doesn't make for compelling storytelling. As a result, you get abrupt scenes that are vaguely romantic, with too little emotional investment, and absolutely too little drama. Indeed, the best romantic relationship in recent Bioware history is Tali, simply because there's an actual romantic problem to contend with; it's basically impossible for you two to go to poundtown.

And it's further compounded and exemplified in just about every Bioware game since. Love interests are just one of a selection of waifus, none of them are given the individual attention they required to be meaningful or unique or interesting.

Outside of story, the romances in many RPG's simply don't have enough gameplay implications, and this is probably the biggest strength of the 3DS Fire Emblem games. While their romances storywise are far too simple to be meaningful, the relationship of the characters improves their strengths and abilities as they grow together. You can even change classes and get unique items for certain interactions. To top it all off, certain characters will have children, and depending who they sack up with will depend what skills and classes the child can pick. It feels very fun and lends a bit of strategy to who you want to pairing up with each other.

Since I am also on this topic, I really want to mention the romances of BG2, which are NOT perfect, but are FAR more effective than what we get right now. They're not perfect in that the characters you romance are really dry, few interactions occur with any sense of levity, and the path to the end of each romance is linear and relatively obvious, save for maybe Viconia. However there are major differences to how they are handled.

First and most important is that they are LONG. You probably talk with each romance character 10 or 15 times before it becomes clearly romantic, and then 20 or 30 times after that, more if you include Throne of Bhaal. It takes place at certain time intervals during rest periods, rather than inorganically after hitting certain story goals. Each stage of it has clear points where it can be failed if you say the wrong things, and each step feels like it's effectively developing the relationship. When you finally hit the point of the slamjam, you should feel like these characters earned this moment. And it doesn't revel in it either, you do the horizontal tango off screen. Great thing about that though is that it doesn't end there. The characters spend time talking about the dirty deed, thinking about what they mean now, and what the future might hold. The best part of the system is that it comes up in the main quest. If you romance a character, they will be used against you late in the game, but if you don't romance anyone it's a part of the scenario that doesn't come up. This is the kind of depth that is sorely lacking in modern romance, so even though BG2 doesn't have particularly great romances, I care far more about them than almost any modern game's romance.

As a TL;DR summary, I really think romance is okay, and in many cases could be a huge positive. But I think developers simply aren't giving romances the attention they deserve. Much more time and effort needs to go into making them feel organic and meaningful, rather than just another point on a list of story beats. Romances need more conflict and drama, as well as having some pull in the main story. And I think romances could be far deeper from a gameplay aspect, lending to game scenarios and designs much more than they do now.

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#42 jun_aka_pekto
Member since 2010 • 25255 Posts

Nah. I don't need it in my games. Probably yet another cutscene. Bioware could make the scene interactive. It might be fun for the cherry boys.

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#43 indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

@xdude85 said:

Because developers know that gamers never get laid.

lol

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#44  Edited By silversix_
Member since 2010 • 26347 Posts

Only when its male on male action.

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#45 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23912 Posts

@darklight4: While it aint no exp boost. In Baldur's Gate 2 romancing Veronica could allow you to change her alignment, going from evil to neutral.

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indzman

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#46 indzman
Member since 2006 • 27736 Posts

@silversix_ said:

Only when its male on male action.

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uninspiredcup

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#47  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 58938 Posts

@ghosts4ever said:

Roamntic/Sex scenes do not need in any video games at all. its just new fad by developers to think its necessary in RPG games. mass effect or witcher or whatever. i bet even cyberpunk 2077 will have shitty sex scene.

Can you imagine Romance in Deus Ex and System shock? that would be very out of place.

Assassins Creed 3 was very surprising. The last thing I expected was a well done romance story. . With the villain of the game. That doesn't result in cringe. That was a gameplay mechanic. That didn't involve a stupid multicolored pie sticking it in a squid lady.

Loading Video...

Way better than any of Biowares strenuous attempts.

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#48 ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 23712 Posts
@uninspiredcup said:

In reality it's cringey puppet sex which Team America (unintentionally) perfectly parodied.

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#49 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 24920 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:
@ghosts4ever said:

Roamntic/Sex scenes do not need in any video games at all. its just new fad by developers to think its necessary in RPG games. mass effect or witcher or whatever. i bet even cyberpunk 2077 will have shitty sex scene.

Can you imagine Romance in Deus Ex and System shock? that would be very out of place.

Assassins Creed 3 was very surprising. The last thing I expected was a well done romance story. . With the villain of the game. That doesn't result in cringe. That was a gameplay mechanic. That didn't involve a stupid multicolored pie sticking it in a squid lady.

Loading Video...

Way better than any of Biowares strenuous attempts.

So much better than witcher 3 romance scene. and AC3 was better game than AC2 by far. even thought i dont like AC3 much. AC4 is best

in witcher 3, gerald of rividia is a pervert guy who can sleep with any girl he want. thats disgusting.

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#50  Edited By deactivated-5b19214ec908b
Member since 2007 • 25072 Posts

I recently played the third game for the first time and replayed the first two, and actually thought the Garrus romance was ok, only because Garrus is a good character and giving him more dialogue automatically makes it a better game. Although it wasn't until the third game that it started feeling a bit more fleshed out and even then most of what he said to me was "can you come back later? I'm kinda busy at the moment" while he sat there doing absolutely nothing. Maybe it's because since it carried on over from the second game they skipped the awful way these relationships start.

It's not necessarily or particularly good, but it's optional and gives more screen time to characters you like.