Are Naughty Dog overrated?

I think it's more likely after the media buzz people come down to earth and objectively examine titles. This is especially true of Bethesda titles. Alot of the gaming media are well known console casuals who are both busy in the real world and very young 20 somethings to have never experienced the wide range of games that have existed over the decades. In the grand scheme of things, Naughty Dog haven't done very much and generally speaking, aren't a very relevant developer. I think we can all agree on that, yes?

@uninspiredcup: ND may not have the largest library of games but even you can appreciate the variety and quality of titles they have released over the years. Crash, Jak and Daxter, Uncharted and TLOU have all been massive successes and have influenced countless games that followed. I agree that looking at games objectively after the hype has died down can give you a fresh perspective but, although I value everyone's opinion, can all those people who have praised these games be so wrong?

Oh and BTW I'm 33 and been gaming since ZX Spctrum days (not that it matters either way when giving an opinion, it's still an opinion)

WTF? Crash and Jak and Daxter didn't influence shit and TLOU hasn't had time to influence anything. The only influential title from ND is Uncharted 2.

Lol, you don't have a fucking clue. The Crash Bandicoot games were system sellers for PS1 and vital in making that console so successful, while the Uncharted and Last Of Us games are centerpiece titles for PS3, essentially Sony's Mario or Halo games. The only time you could argue they "weren't relevant" was PS2, and that's because no single developer could ever stand out on PS2 with so many amazing games.

Knack was inspired by Crash (insert embarrassed smiley). Probably not a good example.

To say one of the first and pioneering 3D platformers inspired nothing is a little Nieve.

"Are"? "Are"??? "ARE"???? (Yeah, it's a poll thread. I know you can't edit them).

Yes, I do find them to be slightly overrated.

I, myself, haven't liked a game they've released since Jak 3.

I know you said it wasn't a good example, but Knack plays nothing like Crash. Crash is a pure platformer while Knack is a brawler.

So what specifically did Crash inspire?

The most overrated devs are either Bethesda, rockstar or Nintendo (inb4raginsheep)

I don't see that at all and I used to love Crash. Crash was a platformer.

@GreySeal9:

http://www.vg247.com/2013/08/30/knack-inspired-by-crash-bandicoot-easy-mode-designed-to-be-someones-first-game/

Name a 3D platformer from 96-2000 and it will have taken inspiration from crash.

Spyro
Sly Cooper
Rayman
Gex
Croc
Klonoa

To name but a few.

Just because you say those games took inspiration from Crash doesn't that they did.

Spyro, Sly Cooper, Gex, etc. actually don't have much in common with Crash. The design of those games is far more derivative of Super Mario 64.

Rayman 1 is more inspired by the 2D platfomers of the Genesis/SNES era and Rayman 2 is more in the vein of SM64.

The truth is that 3D platforming went in the direction of SM64 and in the more linear traditional platforming direction that Crash went in. Even ND's PS2 platformers are far more derivative of SM64.

Also, while Knack might have some of Crash's visual atmosphere, the mechanics are completely different.

Crash 2 and 3 were great games, but they weren't at all influential in terms of their mechanics. They were basic traditional platformers.

In a nutshell.

I posted the video to back up my argument and Mark Cerny clearly states that he wanted to "evoke the same sensation as playing Crash Bandicoot" yet you still try and argue otherwise. I can see now will be no reasoning with you.

I do agree however that SM64 was a far bigger influence than Crash on the halcyon days of 3D platforming as it was such a massive leap forward in gaming mechanics despite that I do get the impression that you have a separate agenda here to undermine Sony/ND so it's pointless trying to argue the point with you.

You can link to as many articles that make vague statements about "the same sensation", but the reality is that in terms of actual gameplay/design, Knack has nothing in common with Crash; it is not even the same genre. If you have to point to such a vague statement, then it's pretty clear that Crash's influence is very limited.

You can cry about me trying to undermine Sony/ND until you're blue in the face, but you have not refuted any of my points nor have you actually explained why Crash influenced the games you listed.

It's not just that Super Mario 64 was a far bigger influence. The truth is that SM64 is a legitimately influential game and Crash isn't. If you disagree, why don't you explain exactly what features of Crash made it influential.

Also, if I was trying to undermine Naughty Dog, I wouldn't grant that Uncharted 2 is influential. But I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Crash/Jak and Daxter were influential because it's abundantly clear that they weren't.

Firstly my "vague statement" was a word for word quote from the creator of Knack. How much more precise do I need to get to appease you?

Spyro for example:

• Both have companions who followed the hero around throughout the whole game.
• Both have companions who served as protection instead of a traditional health meter.
• They both were even designed by Charles Zembillas.
• Both have numerous powers or moves.
• spyro even appears in certain crash games
• both were voiced by Jess Harnell

Just look at the sections in Crash that feature a running toward the camera mechanic. Look familiar. How many games have used that after ND? what about the "lights out" level which involves you following a light source to the exit. Has that never been used again ever?

I will admit Uncharted 3 did fall short of the lofty standard its predecessor set (though it was still solid game). And TLOU was well done ( the multiplayer in particular was better than expected). That said, I think ND are damn good devs but need a few more games of UC2's caliber in order to warrant the extreme praise.

Are you really using "numerous powers or moves" as a point? lol. There were tons of video game characters (before Crash) with numerous powers/moves.

Also, that statement being word for word from the creator of Knack doesn't make it any less vague. "Sensation of Crash" is vague in that it refers to a general feeling rather than actual mechanics.

Also, for the sake of argument, I'll grant you the running toward the camera mechanic. If that's all you can point to, then I can safely say that Crash's influence was limited at best.

I will now say something really odd.

Naughty Dog is VERY overrated by reviewers, but they are far more fairly judged by the consumer.

It astunishes me how reviewers throw those huge scores after some games, and you can hear the exact same reviewers question their own scores just a few months later. The consumer feedback tends to be more accurate towards them (if we look apart of the 1 and 10 they get from lems and cows.

They are good, they are very good, especially when you consider the hardware they Work on, but they get a pass on flaws that other games gets lambasted on. TLoU an how nothing notice Ellie anyone? Or just the entirety of UC3 (yeah I am one of those odd ones WHO liked the first uncharted the most, and the third the very very least).

They are not overrated outside fanboys and reviewers WHO lost their heads, most people acknowlage them for what they are, a top tier Dev, but certainly not without flaws. They are not the best devs ever, they might crack the top 10. The coders are amongst top 10 without a doubt, it is just that some of the game mechanics have been lacking, and some really question choices within the games own logic.

But they are up there, no doubt about it. Most the credit they deserve.

Wither, my freind, you are trying way way too hard to try convince not us, the people, but yourself. It's depressing.

Why start the thread in the first place then if other peoples opinions bother you so much?

ys very overrated

They're pretty damn good. TLOU and Uncharted were two of the best new IP's of last gen and their games not only score really well but also sell really well.

No, I wouldn't say they are. TLOU is one of the best games I've played, and the Uncharted series is quite good as well.

Lems=yes

Cows=no

What about the tri-titan?

no, they are not overrated.

hell, they almost single handedly made the ps3 worth owning.

yes bicoz they no make gmaes for mii consol xbon ant wii

This is Cowspot. So I can already tell you what the poll will say.

I wouldn't call them the best no.. Simply because they tend to put their games into big budget theater pieces with not much depth beyond the first play through which tends to be small.. I would very much like to see the days come back where games like Xcom Enemy Unknown would take the mainstay in which it has tons of replayability, the kind of game I could see my self playing years down the road.. Now it seems like we are getting these titles in which the person plays it once or twice, maybe, and then moving on to the next big game.. There is nothing wrong with this except for the fact that it seems to be taking too much of the gaming market in releases.

i bet you still play with toys , you like mario?

LMFAO

Motion Capturing is the Future.

Naughty Dog & Rockstar stand top of the mountain looking down on all other dev

No, I think Naughty Dog is easily one of the best developers after their body of work on the ps3.

Slightly, I mean their games are terrific but they're not revolutionary or ground breaking. they're just done really really well.

Yea i'd say so, as far as big budget AAA games go, the UC series and TLOU are "average" (meaning good, but given the high budget and crazy hype they could be better). UC was light hearted and funny but the shooting mechanics were terrible and were over-used.

TLOU had better mechanics but it also had too many enemies in many encounters which undermined the intimacy of the combat. It also had pacing issues (the Pittsburg sequence in particular) that made it rather tedious at times. Tedious is a good word to describe the game in general, I think ND mistook difficulty and overly gamey mechanics for tension. It felt like a westernized Resident Evil, a series I have never enjoyed.

I don't think any of those took inspiration from Crash. Please tell me how any of these did... I've played most of these as I'm a platforming nut.

Your poll fails OP. Naughty Dog is the best developer out there. I wasn't into Crash or Jak but when they delved into PS3, they became awesome.

Yes. And this thread was done already.

Yeah I agree. As many have said already, Crash and Mario 64 were two of the first 3D platformers, and the ones that followed almost exclusively imitated the Mario 64 format, including Naughty Dog's own Jak and Daxter on PS2.

I never played another game like Crash, in terms of design.

Valve has a diverse library? Lmao

FPS,FPS MMO

I would call Naughty Dog THE best and I dont care if it sounds like hyperbole to some. Im working with reality here!

Who else has created 2 NEW IPS in one gen that have BOTH scored over a 95 on MC and over a 90 in user reviews?

Many considered Uncharted 2 the best game of this gen,

Now everyone who has played Last of Us pretty much unanimously considers the Last of Us the best game of this gen,

Many of those people even saying that the Last of Us IS the best game they have played of all time.

Both Uncharted 2 and Last of Us will be timeless classics that redefined their genre, and Naughty Dog is responsible for both...Thats unreal!

Show me another developer with those accolades IN ONE gen -Creating 2 NEW dramatically different IPS which are both the best games of that gen like Naughty Dog just did with Uncharted 2 and Last of Us.

Then beyond that, Naughty Dog is also responsible for creating the Crash and Jak & Daxter classics.

Literally EVERYTHING Naughty Dog has created has been a classic...and every one of their classic and iconic franchises ARE DRAMITCALLY different to one another.

Show me another developer who is that consistent and that versatile (as Naughty Dog is)

Developers like Rockstar are one trick ponies (open world games in the vein of GTA)

And even then, Rockstar and Valve have put out some sh!tty games,

Where as Naughty Dog is MONEY ALL the time and picks what ever new genre they want to tackle and then they pretty much redefine that genre - Uncharted 2 revolutionzed action adventure, and Last of Us at the least has reinvigorated survival horror etc

Naughty Dog always tests themselfes with somehing new, rises to the occasion, and grows as a developer because of that.

All things considered, accolades, resume of work, reputation etc - Naughty Dog is the greatest developer gaming has ever seen bar none.

We have NEVER seen a developer like Naughty Dog.

Naughty Dog is special!

Naughty Dog is brilliant.

The fact we get to play Naughty Dog's master peices. WE are like the people who had the pleasure of seeing Ali fight in his prime.

No one puts as much love, care, and vast attention to detail into their games as much as Naughty Dog puts into their games for us. Thats why we should love Naughty Dog even more. Naughty Dog also has the 100% support, love and backing of Sony. Sony always lets Naughty Dog do their thing and flex their crative muscle and that is a beautiful thinh which leads to more success

Hmmm, 10 hour linear shooter with typical indiana jones story and poor multiplayer.... with some of the most mediocre shooting mechanics in modern shooters.

or a game played by nearly a million at once at peak, with alot of depth and good gameplay.

Hmmm.

"oh noes poor pc gamers"

The only Naughty Dog game I've played is Uncharted 2, and based on that game I believe that Naughty Dog is good at creating immersive, cinematic (i.e. movie-like) games that have mediocre gameplay mechanics. They're good at making movie-games.

Hell no. When you make 2 games that are in the top 5 of ALL video game history in the span of 4 years, you are gods. Naughty Gods to be precise. We are humbled by your greatness Naughty Gods and look forward to more world class games on the quad.

Valve made an mmo? Wat,

Great review. Summed up nicely.

I really enjoyed the Uncharted series and The Last Of Us.

To me story is really important and Naughty Dog delivered.

They make you care about the characters and the game-play is top notch.

So no, they are not overrated.

OP is ridiculous

The game that revolutionzed this gen was Uncharted 2.

Naughty Dog took presentation to new heights with Uncharted, while still giving the player as much control as possible.

For example, In a Gears of War game you WATCH a cut scene. In an Uncharted game you PLAY the cut scene!

In Uncharted you also traversed big, beautiful, luscious, and often times atmospheric environments. Engaged in hand to hand combat, had fun shoot outs, with the option of going vertical.. At times were doing a mixture of it all.. Even solving puzzles along the way etc

At the time, NOTHING else played like Uncharted. Nothing!

As a pure TPS game Uncharted had some of the smoothest, most diverse, and fun gameplay segments of any game out there. You could also snap in and out of cover so smoothly, run and engage, go vertical etc. Uncharted is one of the most mobile and fluid pure TPS out there. Add the playable cinematic factors, and it kicked it all up to a tier that no other game was close to reaching at the time.

By comparison, an often talked about TPS like Gears of War was very static, repetitive, and boring in the gameplay department. Go from cover to cover - pop shoot pop shoot - until ad nasuem occured. Weapons were weak. Enemies had no hit detection. Controls were sluggish and tank like. It was a chore just to play Gears, never mind that it was already just so shallow and tedious.

If anything Gears truly is the epotime of generic garbage. Gears also tries way to hard to have the good stories that an Uncharted game has, and so Gears fails even more miserably in its futile attempts!

Uncharted CRUSHES Gears of War in every aspect of gaming. Uncharted contains the vastly superior gameplay and story experience. Uncharted is just the vastly superior game franchise PERIOD! Not too many games can still compete with Uncharted to this day lol.

Anyway,

Its NOT Naughty Dog's fault that every developer and their grandmother started COPYING and STEALING their Uncharted fomula...

When Uncharted first came out it truly was something fresh and revolutionary......now its not anymore because of all the Uncharted clones out there...

But blame the cliches and surpluss of shitty Uncharted clones on THOSE unoriginal developers who saturated the market....

Never blame Naughty Dog for creating it, and doing it right and to perfection with Uncharted.

But Crysis looks better.

Also in regards to Last of Us OP.

Last of Us has the best combat of ANY game ive ever played. Combat so intense, brutal, and dynamic - backed by item resource managment and real time crafting systems. I had never experienced anything like it before.

Tell me what games play like Last of Us. Your OP is full of shit, no suger coating it.

I know people do give credit to the excellent gameplay in Last of Us...but damnit...Last of Us still doesnt get half the credit it deserves for its gameplay....because the gameplay in Last of Us was truly something special!

I completely feel the same way as many others that the Last of Us was revolutionary for its gameplay alone........never mind the amazing story and then the way both came together so perfectly.....Last of Us reaches a god tier status NO game has ever come close to reaching or will ever reach IMO.

Last of Us is the greatest game ive ever played. They are called Naughty Gods for a reason...and ONLY Naughty Dog will ever be able to top Last of Us IMO