AMD's Mantle tech offering up to 45% boost in BF4

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#1 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38168 posts) -

According to their showing at CES, AMD's mantle tech allows up to a 45% boost in performance for Battlefield 4 over its directX counterpart. A pretty sizable difference which could mean the tech isn't just all PR talk

John Carmack also had this to say about it

I'm really interested in seeing some more benchmarks from it but so far it seems promising

#2 Edited by ShepardCommandr (2150 posts) -

So what?

BF4 still sucks.

#3 Posted by Animal-Mother (26229 posts) -

Is this mantle a substitute for Direct X?

#4 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38168 posts) -

So what?

BF4 still sucks.

Not the point numb nuts

Is this mantle a substitute for Direct X?

I think so, but I'm not very knowledgeable about the topic. I think it uses the GPU a lot more directly but games have to support it and dev for it

#5 Posted by killzowned24 (7286 posts) -

Is this mantle a substitute for Direct X?

I love how the herms didn't believe in to the metal performance before mantle.

DX on xbone and pc is crap in comparison.

#6 Edited by lostrib (31814 posts) -

Did they give a release? last i heard it had been delayed

#7 Posted by Animal-Mother (26229 posts) -

@ShepardCommandr said:

So what?

BF4 still sucks.

Not the point numb nuts

@Animal-Mother said:

Is this mantle a substitute for Direct X?

I think so, but I'm not very knowledgeable about the topic. I think it uses the GPU a lot more directly but games have to support it and dev for it

Erm that's a problem. Hasn't DX been the standard...I dunno forever?

#8 Edited by Sushiglutton (5173 posts) -

Hmm if legit this could be a really big thing.

#9 Posted by uninspiredcup (6964 posts) -

But bugs.

#10 Edited by seanmcloughlin (38168 posts) -

@Animal-Mother said:

Is this mantle a substitute for Direct X?

I love how the herms didn't believe in to the metal performance before mantle.

DX on xbone and pc is crap in comparison.

Hermit fanboys didn't maybe

Other people just rolled their eyes at the term "coding to the metal" not what it actually meant

Any PC gamer with half a brain would agree with you that Windows sucks for gaming

#11 Posted by tormentos (16526 posts) -

To the metal on PC should really make games shine,but MS will not like that much,i don't know why he name sony,because the xbox one and PS4 will not compete directly with steambox we all know it,they don't have the push is not as easy as some try to make it sound.

The only problem with this is implementation,if developers don't use it who cares,i know Nvidia will try to have something similar.

#12 Edited by seanmcloughlin (38168 posts) -

@lostrib said:

Did they give a release? last i heard it had been delayed

I think it's next month or something, not sure

Erm that's a problem. Hasn't DX been the standard...I dunno forever?

This is where I'd need someone smarter to come in and explain the ins and outs of it.

#13 Edited by Masculus (2801 posts) -

Man... DirectX is so dead.

#14 Posted by Desmonic (12763 posts) -

According to their showing at CES, AMD's mantle tech allows up to a 45% boost in performance for Battlefield 4 over its directX counterpart. A pretty sizable difference which could mean the tech isn't just all PR talk

John Carmack also had this to say about it

I'm really interested in seeing some more benchmarks from it but so far it seems promising

Hmmm... interesting. The Steambox keeps getting more and more interesting :)

Also, question: With AMD supplying the hardware for all 3 consoles, couldn't this tech be implemented in them (if it's not already)? Wouldn't that level up the field a little bit (tech wise, since in terms of hardware PC+Steambox would be ahead either way)?

#15 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38168 posts) -

To the metal on PC should really make games shine,but MS will not like that much,i don't know why he name sony,because the xbox one and PS4 will not compete directly with steambox we all know it,they don't have the push is not as easy as some try to make it sound.

The only problem with this is implementation,if developers don't use it who cares,i know Nvidia will try to have something similar.

Nvidia will have to try something similar to compete for sure but from what i've heard it's more work for devs to make games geared towards mantle as opposed to the current method where more horsepower will fix performance issues and you don't have to spend as much time optimising

#16 Posted by jer_1 (7419 posts) -

Great news! Anything that beats and compltely shits all over DX is a welcome addition. It should be about time to get rid of DX. Bring it on!

#17 Edited by Desmonic (12763 posts) -

@tormentos said:

To the metal on PC should really make games shine,but MS will not like that much,i don't know why he name sony,because the xbox one and PS4 will not compete directly with steambox we all know it,they don't have the push is not as easy as some try to make it sound.

The only problem with this is implementation,if developers don't use it who cares,i know Nvidia will try to have something similar.

Nvidia will have to try something similar to compete for sure but from what i've heard it's more work for devs to make games geared towards mantle as opposed to the current method where more horsepower will fix performance issues and you don't have to spend as much time optimising

So it's a hard but optimal solution vs a lazy but functional solution? :P

#18 Edited by NFJSupreme (5031 posts) -

@killzowned24: xbone is coded to the metal dumb fuck. Leave fanboyism out of tech discussions you only look stupid.

#19 Posted by killzowned24 (7286 posts) -

@killzowned24: xbone is coded to the metal dumb fuck. Leave fanboyism out of tech discussions you only look stupid.

In a way,but from my understanding and the the pictures I posted,its not nearly as low level as on PS4.

#20 Edited by Kinthalis (5251 posts) -

The thing with DX is that it taps the CPU for a lot of things it doesn't really need to. There's overhead because the CPU needs to be involved with a number of driver calls thanks to windows refusing to allow you to communicate with the GPU the way it allows you to communicate with the CPU (for good reason... for the most part). On top of that DX has had a legacy of poor threading optimization on all of that overhead (it's getting better, but it's got a ways to go).

Mantle bypasses that overhead by communicating more directly with the GPU freeing up the CPU to do other things, and preventing it from beign a bottleneck. Keep in mind that even low end gaming PC's probably have CPU's 2+ times more powerful per core than a next gen console, so that right there should give you a clue as to the possible benefits.

#21 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (5907 posts) -

This is a interesting time we are in. No longer is it just hardware running DirectX or OpenGL but some serious industry changing technology.

Even Nvidia has something up their sleeve for CES.

#22 Edited by Heil68 (42710 posts) -

Sony wouldn't be hostile, after all they practice the Live, Learn and Love lifestyle.

#23 Edited by Joedgabe (5090 posts) -

awesome, I feel directX and the whole windows BS copyright laws have been holding back software development for some time now.

#24 Edited by clyde46 (43675 posts) -

IIRC, AMD said this was open to the competition ergo Nvidia if they wanted it. There is no way Nvidia would let something as big as this slide.

#25 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38168 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

IIRC, AMD said this was open to the competition ergo Nvidia if they wanted it. There is no way Nvidia would let something as big as this slide.

Yeah but Nvidia wouldn't like to use THEIR version of it as they have no control over it. Nvidia being Nvidia would likely dot heir own thing as always

@Desmonic said:

So it's a hard but optimal solution vs a lazy but functional solution? :P

I won't answer in definitives because I really don't know a whole lot about it but that IS what it sounds like

I need Wasdie or someone lol

#26 Edited by HavocV3 (7934 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin said:

@tormentos said:

To the metal on PC should really make games shine,but MS will not like that much,i don't know why he name sony,because the xbox one and PS4 will not compete directly with steambox we all know it,they don't have the push is not as easy as some try to make it sound.

The only problem with this is implementation,if developers don't use it who cares,i know Nvidia will try to have something similar.

Nvidia will have to try something similar to compete for sure but from what i've heard it's more work for devs to make games geared towards mantle as opposed to the current method where more horsepower will fix performance issues and you don't have to spend as much time optimising

Nvidia shouldn't have to do anything besides adopting it. Pretty sure it's supposed to be an open platform and AMD isn't trying to keep it to themselves.

If it wasn't then we'd end up with yet another API and then then it'd just turn into some pointless gimmick where only 1-2 games make good use of it/them every year. *cough* TressFX, PhysX *cough*

And if Mantle does deliver...holy cow. That could save people from Win8 upgrades (Tiled resources/DX 11.2) and they could avoid mobo/CPU upgrades too.

Thank you, AMD.

#27 Edited by clyde46 (43675 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin: Aye, if I know Nvidia and I do know Nvidia they will try their own but there has to be a line. Its not like PhysX which adds some pretty particle effects etc, this is actual game programing. Having two different systems for AMD and Nvidia cards will make everyone's life a misery.

#28 Posted by MK-Professor (3638 posts) -

For CPU bounded situations that is totally believable, for GPU not so much...

#29 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38168 posts) -

@HavocV3 said:

Nvidia shouldn't have to do anything besides adopting it. Pretty sure it's supposed to be an open platform and AMD isn't trying to keep it to themselves.

If it wasn't then we'd end up with yet another API and then then it'd just turn into some pointless gimmick where only 1-2 games make good use of it/them every year. *cough* TressFX, PhysX *cough*

And if Mantle does deliver...holy cow. That could save people from Win8 upgrades (Tiled resources/DX 11.2) and they could avoid mobo/CPU upgrades too.

Thank you, AMD.

What I'm saying is if there are major changes made to it, Nvidia would have to just go along with it without any say or sway in it.

Nvidia like to be in control of things and try be top dogs at what they do, whether they pull that off or not is irrelevant, they wouldn't like to be at the mercy of AMDs tech

#30 Edited by Sushiglutton (5173 posts) -

@Heil68 said:

Sony wouldn't be hostile, after all they practice the Live, Learn and Love lifestyle.

Haha, nice one :)!

#31 Posted by GioVela2010 (4017 posts) -

That's impressive.

But god damn it, as if the r9 290's weren't already hard enough to find at MSRP..

#32 Posted by clyde46 (43675 posts) -

That's impressive.

But god damn it, as if the r9 290's weren't already hard enough to find at MSRP..

Very price, much mine, so crypto, plz rich.

#33 Edited by jhonMalcovich (4365 posts) -

@Heil68 said:

Sony wouldn't be hostile, after all they practice the Live, Learn and Love lifestyle.

More like milk, milk and milk lifestyle.

#34 Posted by lhughey (4221 posts) -

That's impressive.

But god damn it, as if the r9 290's weren't already hard enough to find at MSRP..

You mean "Impossible to find at MSRP".

#35 Edited by Gargus (2147 posts) -

Eh, this wont even matter for at least another 5 or 6 years when developers start making engines that fully take advantage of it. Till then we will get patched in half assed compatibility for it. It will be a decade before its completely entrenched in gaming. People act like this will immediately turn all of gaming around and it will magically make everything suddenly 45% better when in reality you have an adoption phase that in the end might fail because every couple years someone comes up with something that will revolutionize gaming graphics and 99% of the time its a pipe dream.

So Ill believe it once 85% of games created in a calendar year take advantage of this.

#36 Posted by GTSaiyanjin2 (5695 posts) -

I hope Nvidia gets something like this... Because I dont see myself ever owning an AMD card. Nvidia seems to always have the features that I want. Anyways its nice to see stuff like this on PC. Hope we see some benchmarks soon.

#37 Posted by wolverine4262 (18810 posts) -

"Up to" is such deceptive terminology. It could mean there is practically no performance boost or that it even performs worse. Ill wait to actually see benchmarks before making any judgements.

#38 Edited by glez13 (8500 posts) -

Unless that 45% is usual PR stretched BS...

#39 Posted by wis3boi (30921 posts) -

Is this mantle a substitute for Direct X?

yes, it bypasses it. Makes the CPU almost irrelevant too, it's all on the GPU

#40 Posted by charizard1605 (54487 posts) -

While this is great and all, lolBattlefield4

#41 Edited by lundy86_4 (42663 posts) -

This is really interesting. To the metal coding is a huge benefit, so hopefully more devs/pubs take advantage.

Does nVidia intend to counter this?

@glez13 said:

Unless that 45% is usual PR stretched BS...

Yup, it's "up to" which is anything from 0-45% in BF4.

#42 Edited by silversix_ (13657 posts) -

Extremely impressive and this may and probably will make me buy an AMD card when i upgrade later this year.

#43 Posted by Netherscourge (16328 posts) -

So Battlefield 4 will crash to the desktop/dashboard 45% faster now!

WEEEEE!

#44 Posted by nyzma23 (887 posts) -

is this exclusive to amd ? if it is then i don't think publisher will fully support it ,it is pain in the ass coding for 3 different api dx,opengl and now mantle

#45 Edited by freedomfreak (38277 posts) -

WHOA

#46 Posted by ReadingRainbow4 (12847 posts) -

get fucked Direct x.

That's awesome, let's see how Nvidia responds now.

#47 Posted by stereointegrity (10679 posts) -

does it fix the crashes and boots tho?

#48 Posted by CrownKingArthur (3803 posts) -

aren't we still waiting on the hsa driver?

#49 Posted by BluRayHiDef (10837 posts) -

So what?

BF4 still sucks.

BF4 is one of the most fun games I've ever played (both the SP and MP). In regard to the FPS genre, it's legendary. I've got it for both PS4 and PC.

#50 Posted by clyde46 (43675 posts) -

@ShepardCommandr said:

So what?

BF4 still sucks.

BF4 is one of the most fun games I've ever played (both the SP and MP). In regard to the FPS genre, it's legendary. I've got it for both PS4 and PC.

>You played

I'd rather shave myself with a cheese grater than play BF.