AMD's Mantle tech offering up to 45% boost in BF4

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Avatar image for seanmcloughlin
#1 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38222 posts) -

According to their showing at CES, AMD's mantle tech allows up to a 45% boost in performance for Battlefield 4 over its directX counterpart. A pretty sizable difference which could mean the tech isn't just all PR talk

John Carmack also had this to say about it

I'm really interested in seeing some more benchmarks from it but so far it seems promising

Avatar image for ShepardCommandr
#2 Edited by ShepardCommandr (4266 posts) -

So what?

BF4 still sucks.

Avatar image for Animal-Mother
#3 Posted by Animal-Mother (27336 posts) -

Is this mantle a substitute for Direct X?

Avatar image for seanmcloughlin
#4 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38222 posts) -

@ShepardCommandr said:

So what?

BF4 still sucks.

Not the point numb nuts

@Animal-Mother said:

Is this mantle a substitute for Direct X?

I think so, but I'm not very knowledgeable about the topic. I think it uses the GPU a lot more directly but games have to support it and dev for it

Avatar image for killzowned24
#5 Posted by killzowned24 (7345 posts) -

@Animal-Mother said:

Is this mantle a substitute for Direct X?

I love how the herms didn't believe in to the metal performance before mantle.

DX on xbone and pc is crap in comparison.

Avatar image for lostrib
#6 Edited by lostrib (49999 posts) -

Did they give a release? last i heard it had been delayed

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#7 Posted by Animal-Mother (27336 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin said:

@ShepardCommandr said:

So what?

BF4 still sucks.

Not the point numb nuts

@Animal-Mother said:

Is this mantle a substitute for Direct X?

I think so, but I'm not very knowledgeable about the topic. I think it uses the GPU a lot more directly but games have to support it and dev for it

Erm that's a problem. Hasn't DX been the standard...I dunno forever?

Avatar image for Sushiglutton
#8 Edited by Sushiglutton (6653 posts) -

Hmm if legit this could be a really big thing.

Avatar image for uninspiredcup
#9 Posted by uninspiredcup (20953 posts) -

But bugs.

Avatar image for seanmcloughlin
#10 Edited by seanmcloughlin (38222 posts) -

@killzowned24 said:

@Animal-Mother said:

Is this mantle a substitute for Direct X?

I love how the herms didn't believe in to the metal performance before mantle.

DX on xbone and pc is crap in comparison.

Hermit fanboys didn't maybe

Other people just rolled their eyes at the term "coding to the metal" not what it actually meant

Any PC gamer with half a brain would agree with you that Windows sucks for gaming

Avatar image for tormentos
#11 Posted by tormentos (24791 posts) -

To the metal on PC should really make games shine,but MS will not like that much,i don't know why he name sony,because the xbox one and PS4 will not compete directly with steambox we all know it,they don't have the push is not as easy as some try to make it sound.

The only problem with this is implementation,if developers don't use it who cares,i know Nvidia will try to have something similar.

Avatar image for seanmcloughlin
#12 Edited by seanmcloughlin (38222 posts) -

@lostrib said:

Did they give a release? last i heard it had been delayed

I think it's next month or something, not sure

@Animal-Mother said:

Erm that's a problem. Hasn't DX been the standard...I dunno forever?

This is where I'd need someone smarter to come in and explain the ins and outs of it.

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#13 Edited by Masculus (2878 posts) -

Man... DirectX is so dead.

Avatar image for seanmcloughlin
#15 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38222 posts) -

@tormentos said:

To the metal on PC should really make games shine,but MS will not like that much,i don't know why he name sony,because the xbox one and PS4 will not compete directly with steambox we all know it,they don't have the push is not as easy as some try to make it sound.

The only problem with this is implementation,if developers don't use it who cares,i know Nvidia will try to have something similar.

Nvidia will have to try something similar to compete for sure but from what i've heard it's more work for devs to make games geared towards mantle as opposed to the current method where more horsepower will fix performance issues and you don't have to spend as much time optimising

Avatar image for jer_1
#16 Posted by jer_1 (7451 posts) -

Great news! Anything that beats and compltely shits all over DX is a welcome addition. It should be about time to get rid of DX. Bring it on!

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#18 Edited by NFJSupreme (6301 posts) -

@killzowned24: xbone is coded to the metal dumb ****. Leave fanboyism out of tech discussions you only look stupid.

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#19 Posted by killzowned24 (7345 posts) -

@NFJSupreme said:

@killzowned24: xbone is coded to the metal dumb ****. Leave fanboyism out of tech discussions you only look stupid.

In a way,but from my understanding and the the pictures I posted,its not nearly as low level as on PS4.

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#20 Edited by Kinthalis (5502 posts) -

The thing with DX is that it taps the CPU for a lot of things it doesn't really need to. There's overhead because the CPU needs to be involved with a number of driver calls thanks to windows refusing to allow you to communicate with the GPU the way it allows you to communicate with the CPU (for good reason... for the most part). On top of that DX has had a legacy of poor threading optimization on all of that overhead (it's getting better, but it's got a ways to go).

Mantle bypasses that overhead by communicating more directly with the GPU freeing up the CPU to do other things, and preventing it from beign a bottleneck. Keep in mind that even low end gaming PC's probably have CPU's 2+ times more powerful per core than a next gen console, so that right there should give you a clue as to the possible benefits.

Avatar image for FoxbatAlpha
#21 Posted by FoxbatAlpha (10669 posts) -

This is a interesting time we are in. No longer is it just hardware running DirectX or OpenGL but some serious industry changing technology.

Even Nvidia has something up their sleeve for CES.

Avatar image for Heil68
#22 Edited by Heil68 (56665 posts) -

Sony wouldn't be hostile, after all they practice the Live, Learn and Love lifestyle.

Avatar image for Joedgabe
#23 Edited by Joedgabe (5134 posts) -

awesome, I feel directX and the whole windows BS copyright laws have been holding back software development for some time now.

Avatar image for clyde46
#24 Edited by clyde46 (48961 posts) -

IIRC, AMD said this was open to the competition ergo Nvidia if they wanted it. There is no way Nvidia would let something as big as this slide.

Avatar image for seanmcloughlin
#25 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38222 posts) -

@clyde46 said:

IIRC, AMD said this was open to the competition ergo Nvidia if they wanted it. There is no way Nvidia would let something as big as this slide.

Yeah but Nvidia wouldn't like to use THEIR version of it as they have no control over it. Nvidia being Nvidia would likely dot heir own thing as always

@Desmonic said:

So it's a hard but optimal solution vs a lazy but functional solution? :P

I won't answer in definitives because I really don't know a whole lot about it but that IS what it sounds like

I need Wasdie or someone lol

Avatar image for HavocV3
#26 Edited by HavocV3 (8022 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin said:

@tormentos said:

To the metal on PC should really make games shine,but MS will not like that much,i don't know why he name sony,because the xbox one and PS4 will not compete directly with steambox we all know it,they don't have the push is not as easy as some try to make it sound.

The only problem with this is implementation,if developers don't use it who cares,i know Nvidia will try to have something similar.

Nvidia will have to try something similar to compete for sure but from what i've heard it's more work for devs to make games geared towards mantle as opposed to the current method where more horsepower will fix performance issues and you don't have to spend as much time optimising

Nvidia shouldn't have to do anything besides adopting it. Pretty sure it's supposed to be an open platform and AMD isn't trying to keep it to themselves.

If it wasn't then we'd end up with yet another API and then then it'd just turn into some pointless gimmick where only 1-2 games make good use of it/them every year. *cough* TressFX, PhysX *cough*

And if Mantle does deliver...holy cow. That could save people from Win8 upgrades (Tiled resources/DX 11.2) and they could avoid mobo/CPU upgrades too.

Thank you, AMD.

Avatar image for clyde46
#27 Edited by clyde46 (48961 posts) -

@seanmcloughlin: Aye, if I know Nvidia and I do know Nvidia they will try their own but there has to be a line. Its not like PhysX which adds some pretty particle effects etc, this is actual game programing. Having two different systems for AMD and Nvidia cards will make everyone's life a misery.

Avatar image for MK-Professor
#28 Posted by MK-Professor (4131 posts) -

For CPU bounded situations that is totally believable, for GPU not so much...

Avatar image for seanmcloughlin
#29 Posted by seanmcloughlin (38222 posts) -

@HavocV3 said:

Nvidia shouldn't have to do anything besides adopting it. Pretty sure it's supposed to be an open platform and AMD isn't trying to keep it to themselves.

If it wasn't then we'd end up with yet another API and then then it'd just turn into some pointless gimmick where only 1-2 games make good use of it/them every year. *cough* TressFX, PhysX *cough*

And if Mantle does deliver...holy cow. That could save people from Win8 upgrades (Tiled resources/DX 11.2) and they could avoid mobo/CPU upgrades too.

Thank you, AMD.

What I'm saying is if there are major changes made to it, Nvidia would have to just go along with it without any say or sway in it.

Nvidia like to be in control of things and try be top dogs at what they do, whether they pull that off or not is irrelevant, they wouldn't like to be at the mercy of AMDs tech

Avatar image for Sushiglutton
#30 Edited by Sushiglutton (6653 posts) -

@Heil68 said:

Sony wouldn't be hostile, after all they practice the Live, Learn and Love lifestyle.

Haha, nice one :)!

Avatar image for GioVela2010
#31 Posted by GioVela2010 (4312 posts) -

That's impressive.

But god damn it, as if the r9 290's weren't already hard enough to find at MSRP..

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#32 Posted by clyde46 (48961 posts) -

@GioVela2010 said:

That's impressive.

But god damn it, as if the r9 290's weren't already hard enough to find at MSRP..

Very price, much mine, so crypto, plz rich.

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#33 Edited by jhonMalcovich (7015 posts) -

@Heil68 said:

Sony wouldn't be hostile, after all they practice the Live, Learn and Love lifestyle.

More like milk, milk and milk lifestyle.

Avatar image for lhughey
#34 Posted by lhughey (4472 posts) -

@GioVela2010 said:

That's impressive.

But god damn it, as if the r9 290's weren't already hard enough to find at MSRP..

You mean "Impossible to find at MSRP".

Avatar image for Gargus
#35 Edited by Gargus (2147 posts) -

Eh, this wont even matter for at least another 5 or 6 years when developers start making engines that fully take advantage of it. Till then we will get patched in half assed compatibility for it. It will be a decade before its completely entrenched in gaming. People act like this will immediately turn all of gaming around and it will magically make everything suddenly 45% better when in reality you have an adoption phase that in the end might fail because every couple years someone comes up with something that will revolutionize gaming graphics and 99% of the time its a pipe dream.

So Ill believe it once 85% of games created in a calendar year take advantage of this.

Avatar image for GTSaiyanjin2
#36 Posted by GTSaiyanjin2 (6017 posts) -

I hope Nvidia gets something like this... Because I dont see myself ever owning an AMD card. Nvidia seems to always have the features that I want. Anyways its nice to see stuff like this on PC. Hope we see some benchmarks soon.

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#37 Posted by wolverine4262 (20808 posts) -

"Up to" is such deceptive terminology. It could mean there is practically no performance boost or that it even performs worse. Ill wait to actually see benchmarks before making any judgements.

Avatar image for glez13
#38 Edited by glez13 (9588 posts) -

Unless that 45% is usual PR stretched BS...

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#39 Posted by wis3boi (32507 posts) -

@Animal-Mother said:

Is this mantle a substitute for Direct X?

yes, it bypasses it. Makes the CPU almost irrelevant too, it's all on the GPU

Avatar image for charizard1605
#40 Posted by charizard1605 (76207 posts) -

While this is great and all, lolBattlefield4

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#41 Edited by lundy86_4 (47660 posts) -

This is really interesting. To the metal coding is a huge benefit, so hopefully more devs/pubs take advantage.

Does nVidia intend to counter this?

@glez13 said:

Unless that 45% is usual PR stretched BS...

Yup, it's "up to" which is anything from 0-45% in BF4.

Avatar image for silversix_
#42 Edited by silversix_ (24408 posts) -

Extremely impressive and this may and probably will make me buy an AMD card when i upgrade later this year.

Avatar image for Netherscourge
#43 Posted by Netherscourge (16363 posts) -

So Battlefield 4 will crash to the desktop/dashboard 45% faster now!

WEEEEE!

Avatar image for nyzma23
#44 Posted by nyzma23 (1000 posts) -

is this exclusive to amd ? if it is then i don't think publisher will fully support it ,it is pain in the ass coding for 3 different api dx,opengl and now mantle

Avatar image for freedomfreak
#45 Edited by freedomfreak (48939 posts) -

WHOA

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#46 Posted by ReadingRainbow4 (18733 posts) -

get fucked Direct x.

That's awesome, let's see how Nvidia responds now.

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#47 Posted by stereointegrity (11279 posts) -

does it fix the crashes and boots tho?

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#48 Posted by CrownKingArthur (5262 posts) -

aren't we still waiting on the hsa driver?

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#49 Posted by BluRayHiDef (10839 posts) -

@ShepardCommandr said:

So what?

BF4 still sucks.

BF4 is one of the most fun games I've ever played (both the SP and MP). In regard to the FPS genre, it's legendary. I've got it for both PS4 and PC.

Avatar image for clyde46
#50 Posted by clyde46 (48961 posts) -

@BluRayHiDef said:

@ShepardCommandr said:

So what?

BF4 still sucks.

BF4 is one of the most fun games I've ever played (both the SP and MP). In regard to the FPS genre, it's legendary. I've got it for both PS4 and PC.

>You played

I'd rather shave myself with a cheese grater than play BF.