A Question for strategy haters (z)

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Edited by uninspiredcup (10163 posts) -

have always wondered, pondered, inquisitively about why the strategy genre is so shunned. I came to some conclusions that might help explain

1. The media ignores it.

A sad truth my chums, being a pc centric genre and requiring "thinking" with attributes such as patience and a learning curve it is my personal believe (it's obvious as fuck) want it's audience to be as easy meat as possible. i.e. they want you to be stupid as fuck, and assume stupid as fuck equals mainstream, simple movie like games.

2, Controls

Obvious. However, done well (xcom) it is proven the genre can work quite well on console. Some people have outright said they prefer the control pad. You also have shitty Ubisoft titles with gimmicks like voice command.

Anyway, the main question at hand. How many of you have actually played Shogun 2 or Sins Of The Solar Empire? Do you just talk shitty shit about games and genres who haven't actively explored? Or have you played these titles and many in the genre and decided they are objectively shit?

#2 Edited by trugs26 (5754 posts) -

It's probably a couple of things. Firstly, the initial concept may sound boring. Moving troops around a board, gathering resources. It can sound like a board game, which some people might be put off by. Secondly, if someone does decide to play the game, there can be a bit of a learning curve. Especially in established franchises which have their own jargon. Again, it's like learning learning the rules of a board game, which doesn't sound very fun.

PS I'm not a strategy hater, I love them, I'm just guessing why it might be the case.

#3 Edited by PrincessGomez92 (3715 posts) -

Because it's not CoD.

#4 Posted by k--m--k (1029 posts) -

my friends find it lame boring and stupid

and also geeky or nerdy or whatever the term

they suck

#5 Posted by _Matt_ (9069 posts) -

I have not played either of those titles, but games like Company of Heroes, Age of Empires, Dawn of War, XCom, Civilization, etc etc I love.

#6 Edited by jhonMalcovich (4979 posts) -

Well...speaking factually and not out of your ass, the strategy genre is not shunned. It's the MOSTpopular genre.

LoL and Dota2 are the most played games in the world, and MOBAs is a branch of the strategy genre.

Football Manager 2014 and Sid Meier's Civilization V are the top 5 and 6 in Steam's top ten. The problem is your opinions suck. If stategy wasn't that popular, there wouldn't be so many strategy games released every year.

There are more strategies released last year alone than all fps and action adventures combined

Dota 2

Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham

XCOM: Enemy Within

Battle Worlds: Kronos

Prime World

Rise of Venice

Ironclad Tactics

Total War: Rome II

Sid Meier's Ace Patrol

Space Hulk

Worms Clan Wars

Europa Universalis IV

CastleStorm

Skulls of the Shogun

Sid Meier's Civilization V: Brave New World

Company of Heroes 2

7 Grand Steps

Wargame: AirLand Battle

Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods

Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes

Anomaly 2

Might & Magic Heroes VI - Shades of Darkness

Leviathan: Warships

Game Dev Tycoon

Eador: Masters of the Broken World

Victoria II: Heart of Darkness

Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm

March of the Eagles

#7 Edited by uninspiredcup (10163 posts) -

My friend, you listed a bunch of shit no one has heard of and RPG's/basketball moba games.

#8 Posted by Blabadon (27719 posts) -

Commercialism.

Also, when strategy games blow, they really blow. Out of all the "games that are so shitty that they're kind of fun" category, strategy games that are shitty are hard to extract enjoyment out of at all.

#9 Edited by kraken2109 (13160 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

My friend, you listed a bunch of shit no one has heard of and RPG's/basketball moba games.

You've never heard of the Total War, Starcraft or Civilization series?

#10 Posted by blangenakker (2500 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: That's like, your opinion maaaan

#11 Posted by gameofthering (10402 posts) -

I'm not really a fan of Total War. I prefer my strategy games to be like Starcraft.

#12 Posted by blue_hazy_basic (28265 posts) -

@kraken2109 said:

@uninspiredcup said:

My friend, you listed a bunch of shit no one has heard of and RPG's/basketball moba games.

You've never heard of the Total War, Starcraft or Civilization series?

Is it so hard to tell you're being trolled? Every single one of his threads are like this, feigned ignorance and false superiority.

#13 Edited by Muffin2020 (527 posts) -

@blue_hazy_basic said:

@kraken2109 said:

@uninspiredcup said:

My friend, you listed a bunch of shit no one has heard of and RPG's/basketball moba games.

You've never heard of the Total War, Starcraft or Civilization series?

Is it so hard to tell you're being trolled? Every single one of his threads are like this, feigned ignorance and false superiority.

It would be nice if the Mods still locked the trolls threads and issued warnings.

#14 Edited by uninspiredcup (10163 posts) -
@Blabadon said:

Commercialism.

Also, when strategy games blow, they really blow. Out of all the "games that are so shitty that they're kind of fun" category, strategy games that are shitty are hard to extract enjoyment out of at all.

I agree my friend. It's very mechanically based. Being time consuming, when one is forced to endure a broken product (Paradox Interactive) it can generally leave a sigma, not just of the genre itself... but of pc gaming.

#15 Posted by Gargus (2147 posts) -

Strategy games shunned? No, not even close to being shunned.

StarCraft is a prime example of strategy games being widely accepted the damn thing sells millions and millions every time a new one comes out and has worldwide broadcasted tournaments. Sim city since it is essentially a strategy game, civilization has always been very well known among gamers and a good seller with lots of support, xcom enemy unknown was a big console and pc selling game with lots of media coverage and awards, sins of a solar empire was in the top 10 best selling games on launch for like 6 months, age of empires, command and conquer series, warcraft 1, 2 and 3 were giants of the genre, dungeon keeper was big on consoles and handhelds and the pc. Then you have games with strategy mixed in them like brutal legend. Then you have strategy series that are long running on consoles and considered classic games like super Mario rpg, battalion wars, advance wars, even nectaris on turbografx 16, and final fantasy tactics.

Its one of those genres where some of its purists like to think and assume its a hated genre that is shunned by most so they get to feel like they are cool for liking something most dislike.

Is it the most popular? No, but it certainly isn't shunned.

#16 Edited by uninspiredcup (10163 posts) -

@Gargus said:

Strategy games shunned? No, not even close to being shunned.

Why does Call of Duty get a video review and Shogun 2 not? Because the media want to focus resources on mainstream movie games and not bother wasting time with a 10 minute video for a game that would actually benefit from it. My friend, to me, that's shunning of a very cynical nature casting a dark shadow upon gaming credibility.

It's very much like E-sports when they attempt to make out Halo and Call Of Duty as competitive games simply on the basis they are mainstream, regardless of the reality. Self constructed reality prioritized around the dark salty beast of commercialized promotion under the guise of something pure hearted.

#17 Posted by rosko123 (535 posts) -

@blue_hazy_basic said:

@kraken2109 said:

@uninspiredcup said:

My friend, you listed a bunch of shit no one has heard of and RPG's/basketball moba games.

You've never heard of the Total War, Starcraft or Civilization series?

Is it so hard to tell you're being trolled? Every single one of his threads are like this, feigned ignorance and false superiority.

Yeah the guy is an idiot. His threads are always "What do you guys think?" You give him a reasonable response and he just says you're wrong. Cunt.

#18 Edited by PurpleMan5000 (7629 posts) -

Fire Emblem Awakening was nominated for GOTY by just about every publication that I'm aware of, so I would hardly say the genre is ignored by the media.

#19 Edited by IgGy621985 (4865 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

1. The media ignores it.

Um, Rome 2 had a pretty huge campaign with a big media feedback?

StarCraft 2 Heart of the Swarm was even bigger?

MOBA games get a big media feedback?

In the end, it breaks down to: big marketing budget = big media feedback.

Most of gaming media won't do a highlighted preview/review of your game for free, most of the time.

#20 Posted by Cobra_nVidia (1685 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

have always wondered, pondered, inquisitively about why the strategy genre is so shunned. I came to some conclusions that might help explain

Weren't you just in another thread about 2014 PC games claiming there was nothing good about it? Galactic Civilizations 5 and Starcraft II: Legacy of the Void?

If there's a lack of coverage, it is due to most of them not being suitable for game consoles or the audience. Too much reading and planning involved.

#21 Posted by uninspiredcup (10163 posts) -

Pc gaming is mostly a waste of time. But Shogun 2's good.

#22 Edited by jun_aka_pekto (16840 posts) -

@k--m--k said:

my friends find it lame boring and stupid

and also geeky or nerdy or whatever the term

they suck

Video games in general are geeky, nerdy, and to many, childish.

#23 Edited by g0ddyX (3914 posts) -

Its true that strategy games are much less talked about around here.

Dont see many kids playing them except adults.
Maybe that has a part in it.

#24 Edited by AmazonTreeBoa (16745 posts) -

I don't hate strategy games, but I haven't ever played a RTS (Yeah I know, shocking as a PC gamers). The number one reason I haven't is because they intimidate me. I feel like I would be jumping into the deep end of the pool without being taught to swim first. What I mean is I have this feeling I would buy one and start playing it just to get my ass handed to me over and over and over because I have no clue wtf I am doing and how to play the game. I wanted to buy Starcraft so bad when I saw gameplay videos on Youtube, but never bought because as cool as it looked, it also left me feeling like I would drown if I got the game. And RTS gamers never seem to be much help in or out of the game. Out of game, you have to pull teeth to get help deciding what would be a good RTS for somebody that never played one and most responses are things like "just suck it up and die until you learn it" or "RTSs aren't for you". Actually getting answer is like pulling teeth. INgame, they just want to stomp on you and not help you learn anything.

So I don't buy RTS games. I like strategy games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Fire Emblem, etc. though.

#25 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6032 posts) -

I used to love playing Command & Conquer on my Saturn. But after that, they were just a pain in the ass. Especially multiplayer- I'm so useless at them, even in coop I'm a liability to my partner. I have fun trouncing the enemy, not being repeatedly and grossly trounced on myself. It's why I don't play competitive shooters, either.

#26 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (16840 posts) -

It's just a genre. There are a lot of genres that get no hype

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

I don't hate strategy games, but I haven't ever played a RTS (Yeah I know, shocking as a PC gamers). The number one reason I haven't is because they intimidate me. I feel like I would be jumping into the deep end of the pool without being taught to swim first. What I mean is I have this feeling I would buy one and start playing it just to get my ass handed to me over and over and over because I have no clue wtf I am doing and how to play the game. I wanted to buy Starcraft so bad when I saw gameplay videos on Youtube, but never bought because as cool as it looked, it also left me feeling like I would drown if I got the game. And RTS gamers never seem to be much help in or out of the game. Out of game, you have to pull teeth to get help deciding what would be a good RTS for somebody that never played one and most responses are things like "just suck it up and die until you learn it" or "RTSs aren't for you". Actually getting answer is like pulling teeth. INgame, they just want to stomp on you and not help you learn anything.

So I don't buy RTS games. I like strategy games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Fire Emblem, etc. though.

Stick with singleplayer. Most aren't that hard.

#27 Posted by kraken2109 (13160 posts) -

@rosko123 said:

@blue_hazy_basic said:

@kraken2109 said:

@uninspiredcup said:

My friend, you listed a bunch of shit no one has heard of and RPG's/basketball moba games.

You've never heard of the Total War, Starcraft or Civilization series?

Is it so hard to tell you're being trolled? Every single one of his threads are like this, feigned ignorance and false superiority.

Yeah the guy is an idiot. His threads are always "What do you guys think?" You give him a reasonable response and he just says you're wrong. Cunt.

Yes, I know.

I'm just making it clear to everyone else how moronic he is.

#28 Posted by Zidaneski (8482 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto said:

It's just a genre. There are a lot of genres that get no hype

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

I don't hate strategy games, but I haven't ever played a RTS (Yeah I know, shocking as a PC gamers). The number one reason I haven't is because they intimidate me. I feel like I would be jumping into the deep end of the pool without being taught to swim first. What I mean is I have this feeling I would buy one and start playing it just to get my ass handed to me over and over and over because I have no clue wtf I am doing and how to play the game. I wanted to buy Starcraft so bad when I saw gameplay videos on Youtube, but never bought because as cool as it looked, it also left me feeling like I would drown if I got the game. And RTS gamers never seem to be much help in or out of the game. Out of game, you have to pull teeth to get help deciding what would be a good RTS for somebody that never played one and most responses are things like "just suck it up and die until you learn it" or "RTSs aren't for you". Actually getting answer is like pulling teeth. INgame, they just want to stomp on you and not help you learn anything.

So I don't buy RTS games. I like strategy games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Fire Emblem, etc. though.

Stick with singleplayer. Most aren't that hard.

Yah, I don't play RTS either but I played Grim grimoire and it wasn't so bad, quite fun mass producing Dragons (2 or 3) and burning everything.

#29 Posted by rosko123 (535 posts) -

@kraken2109 said:

@rosko123 said:

@blue_hazy_basic said:

@kraken2109 said:

@uninspiredcup said:

My friend, you listed a bunch of shit no one has heard of and RPG's/basketball moba games.

You've never heard of the Total War, Starcraft or Civilization series?

Is it so hard to tell you're being trolled? Every single one of his threads are like this, feigned ignorance and false superiority.

Yeah the guy is an idiot. His threads are always "What do you guys think?" You give him a reasonable response and he just says you're wrong. Cunt.

Yes, I know.

I'm just making it clear to everyone else how moronic he is.

Haha I know. He's so annoying!

#30 Edited by Consternated (498 posts) -

Jesus gave me military advice in Crusader Kings II. I sacrificed my son to appease the gods, blinded my daughter for cheating on her spouse, conquered Jerusalem and ran the continents religion as a Pagan lord, I cheated on my wife with my cousin, I sent a drunkard on a failed flight with a then revolutionary flying machine...

Strategy games are boring, eh? Naff off!

#31 Posted by with_teeth26 (6248 posts) -

I think one issue is that people tend to lump all strategy games together. There is a lot of diversity in the genre between the likes of Civilization, Total War, Starcraft, Dawn of War, Company of Heroes etc.

I personally don't enjoy the Civilization series or grand strategy games in general, but I loves games like CoH 1/2, World in Conflict and DoW. Comparing some of these games is like comparing Arma to Call of Duty, they might loosely fit into the same genre while appealing to very different people.

#32 Posted by menes777 (2643 posts) -

@blue_hazy_basic said:

@kraken2109 said:

@uninspiredcup said:

My friend, you listed a bunch of shit no one has heard of and RPG's/basketball moba games.

You've never heard of the Total War, Starcraft or Civilization series?

Is it so hard to tell you're being trolled? Every single one of his threads are like this, feigned ignorance and false superiority.

He's 100% troll, one minute he's bashing PC, the next consoles. He pretty much posts whatever will get him the most attention at the time.

#33 Posted by Heil68 (46200 posts) -

But it's not shunned.

#34 Posted by good_sk8er7 (4322 posts) -

I actually love turn based strategy games. FF Tactics, XCOM, Fire Emblem, Civilization. I just can't stand RTS games.

#35 Posted by Ripsaw1994 (166 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: Enjoy your terrible graphics and QTEs pleb

#36 Edited by charizard1605 (59755 posts) -

I love strategy games. Sins of a Solar Empire is one of my favorite strategy games from last generation.

#37 Posted by xWoW_Rougex (2774 posts) -

Personally I don't have the patience to learn them. Tried Sins of a Solar Empire but after 30 minutes my brain was filled with so much and I felt like I couldn't be bothered. Some like that games are really complex but I don't appreciate it. I go to school to study, with games I don't want to learn the most efficient way to harvest ore or fifty different strategies to counter attack a droid army. Guess you could say I'm kinda casual...

#38 Posted by DarkLink77 (31762 posts) -

I haven't played either of the games in the OP, but I have played a lot of strategy games. They're super fun, but a lot of them have an extremely high learning curve, and that intimidates people.

#39 Posted by clyde46 (47010 posts) -

Hey mods, do your fucking job.

#40 Posted by Jankarcop (10210 posts) -

RTS are very popular.

The haters consist mostly of american dudebros, who while are the loudest are not the majority.

#41 Edited by Jag85 (4963 posts) -

Depends where you live. In Korea, China, and Eastern Europe, Real-Time Strategy games are quite popular, almost like a national sport in South Korea. Meanwhile, Turn-Based Strategy games are quite popular in Japan.

#42 Posted by -Unreal- (24544 posts) -

When I think of strategy games, I do not think of XCom, I think of Starcraft. XCom works on a controller but Starcraft would become slow, cumbersome and with barely any micro management.

#43 Posted by menes777 (2643 posts) -

@jhonMalcovich said:

Football Manager 2014 and Sid Meier's Civilization V are the top 5 and 6 in Steam's top ten. The problem is your opinions suck. If stategy wasn't that popular, there wouldn't be so many strategy games released every year.

There are more strategies released last year alone than all fps and action adventures combined

Exactly, these games are extremely popular and just because they aren't advertised to hell and back doesn't mean they aren't enjoyable. I can understand wanting some mindless entertainment every now and then but really strategy games are where the real enjoyment is.

#44 Posted by clone01 (25059 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

have always wondered, pondered, inquisitively about why the strategy genre is so shunned. I came to some conclusions that might help explain

1. The media ignores it.

A sad truth my chums, being a pc centric genre and requiring "thinking" with attributes such as patience and a learning curve it is my personal believe (it's obvious as fuck) want it's audience to be as easy meat as possible. i.e. they want you to be stupid as fuck, and assume stupid as fuck equals mainstream, simple movie like games.

2, Controls

Obvious. However, done well (xcom) it is proven the genre can work quite well on console. Some people have outright said they prefer the control pad. You also have shitty Ubisoft titles with gimmicks like voice command.

Anyway, the main question at hand. How many of you have actually played Shogun 2 or Sins Of The Solar Empire? Do you just talk shitty shit about games and genres who haven't actively explored? Or have you played these titles and many in the genre and decided they are objectively shit?

I don't think strategy games are "objectively shit" at all. They just don't personally interest me that much.

#45 Edited by silversix_ (15335 posts) -

I personally dislike rts because of top down view and the fact that you command dozens or hundreds of dudes instead of 5 or under. Xcom is the only strats title i ever enjoyed because you command a small group and not thousands of shit at the same time.

#46 Posted by Motokid6 (6018 posts) -

Im horrible at them, but i like them anyway. RoN and SupCom are my favorites.

#47 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (16840 posts) -

I started out gaming on the PC with turn-based strategy as one of the genres I liked such as Steel Panthers (1 and 2), Red Lightning, and Panzer General. From there I branched out to RTS such as Dune 2 and tactical wargames such as Close Combat 2: A Bridge Too Far. I still play the latter and Steel Panthers.

These games are immortal to me.

#48 Edited by Riverwolf007 (24035 posts) -

what is weird about strategy games is how i never replace them once i find ones i like.

hell i have played lord of the rings battle for middle earth 1, space rangers 2 and company of heros for like three quarters of a decade now and i'm not even worried about getting anything new.

the last strategy game i actually bought a couple of years ago was an ebay copy of panzer general for ps1 which i play on my ps3.

#49 Edited by foxhound_fox (89887 posts) -

I want to play Shogun 2.

I played a lot of the first Rome.