SEGA will continue to use the Modern Era Sonic Formula

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sonictrainer

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#1 sonictrainer
Member since 2008 • 15187 Posts

In an interview with CCC, some information was revealed involving future Sonic games.

"This weekend I got a chance to stop by the SEGA booth at PAX and speak with a few representatives about Sonicthe Hedgehog 4: Episode II. Not only were they happy to give me a rundown of the game and all its features, they were also happy to shoot the breeze about Sonic's future and the overall design direction of the series. So, of course, I had to start with the question that was on everybody's mind: "Will Sonic ever turn into a werewolf again?" The answer is no, thankfully.

It appears as if SEGA is learning from the mistakes of their past. The booth reps acknowledged that games like Sonic Unleashed and Sonic and the Black Knight were dark times in Sonic's history. However, they also noted that the success of newer games like Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations have given them a better idea of what the Sonic fanbase is actually looking for. They then used this info to design Sonic 4: EpisodeII, and they plan on following the same trends throughout all future Sonic titles. So what does this mean for our spikey blue retro gaming mascot?

First of all, the dev teamnow realizes that momentum is very important in a Sonic game. In fact, the entire physics engine of Sonic 4 has been redone for Episode II. Sonic has far less traction than he had before, making platforming feel trickier while simultaneously rewarding players who keep Sonic at his top speed. In fact, speed seems to be the primary focus of all modern day Sonic games. Even the Retro Sonic levels of Sonic Generations focused on speed before anything else. In Episode II, this speed is extended to Tails. He can now fly about as fast as Sonic can run, even when he is carrying Sonic along with him. The same holds true for Tails' ability to swim, which makes water levels far easier to navigate.

Sonic Team also seems to have a renewed focus on level design. The snowy level of Episode II that I played at PAX was designed in such a way that you immediately knew where the upper and lower paths diverged. Sometimes, screwing up on the highest path in the level would drop you all the way to the lower path, and this penalty would be so severe that you would never make that same mistake again.

Future Sonic levels seem to be geared toward the speed running crowd. Platforms seem to be spaced apart in such a way that you can easily skip one or two if you are jumping at high speed. Levels are built with long straightaways filled with loops that continually keep your speed at max. Most of the strategy in these levels involves memorizing where the pitfalls are and avoiding them at the last second. Unfortunately, this does boil a lot of Sonic gameplaydown to rote memorization, but hardcore Sonic fans would argue that this isn't a bad thing.

The booth reps also said that SEGA is committed to delivering more Retro Sonic games in the future. While they confirmed that there would be no DLC add-ons for Episode II, they did say that Episode II does not end the Sonic 4 story. Instead, they are taking Sonic games one at a time. If Episode II does well, Episode III will come out. After that, IV, and so on until they get to the point where they are ready to develop Sonic 5 (the rep speculated this wouldn't be until after Sonic 4: Episode IV).

I asked if Sonic would be remaining 2D in the future. I was told that 3D Sonic is a core part of the brand, but that SEGA is aware that fans want more 2D action. Further Sonic titles will probably continue to use the fusion of 3D and 2D gameplay. SEGA is also aware that Sonic fans want to see more old school conflict between Sonic and Robotnik. This means that we will see less of Sonic travelingthrough time, space, fantasy worlds, and other dimensions. All we need is just Sonic, his furry friends, and lots of evil robots.

Speaking of furry friends, SEGA also seems to have figured out that Sonic: The Hedgehog has reached a critical furry mass of supporting characters. The booth reps said that they want to shift the focus of Sonic games back onto Sonic himself. Although Tails was added to Sonic 4: Episode II, the focus still remains on Sonic and the Sonic type gameplay. This holds true for mainstream titles as well. Sonic will always be the main character, and supporting characters will be slowly introduced as if the games are starting all over again.

With a renewed focus on the breakneck speed gameplay that the core Sonic fan base loves so much, Sonic is speeding back onto the scene. As long as SEGA sticks to the design goals they talked about at PAX, Sonic's future should be bright indeed. Judging by my time with Sonic 4: Episode II, that's exactly what Sonic Team is doing."

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barren167

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#2 barren167
Member since 2011 • 2606 Posts
Hey, they don't perfectly agree with how I feel Sonic should be! I want less speed and more platforming! I'm starting a boycott...
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Soniczero1993

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#3 Soniczero1993
Member since 2005 • 35070 Posts

I command all Sonic fans to destroy this person above me.

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white_kunoichi

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#4 white_kunoichi
Member since 2010 • 4741 Posts
Well, okay. Just make the games as comfortable for me as possible.
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demoman_chaos

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#5 demoman_chaos
Member since 2006 • 13896 Posts
Sonic has far less traction than he had before, making platforming feel trickier...sonictrainer
I stopped reading there. How does making platforming in a platformer hardermake sense? I will be glad when they get off this stupid top speed kick. Sonic wasn't really fast in his glory days, he was fluid. Raw speed doesn't equal a sense of speed given by good flow. Going 300+ mph seems like a good idea on paper but paper is thin and turns transparent when covered in grease. The Trial and Error twins are not what your game should be based around. If it is not possible to get a high mark on your first go, you are doing it wrong. If you can't get decent scores without memorizing the stage, it is not a good game. A good comparison is Gran Turismo 5. The Red Bull X2010 is the ridiculously over powered fantasy car that can hit 200 mph in a few seconds and can break 300 mph while still outturning everything. The X2010 is a fun concept and was fun for a while, but after driving it the excitement of ridiculous speed goes away and the car just seems bland. The slower cars that let you enjoy the track layout and let you toss them around are the ones that are the funnest. I'd rather drive an 80 hp Triumph Spitfire that I can keep a good flow going with than the X2010 which speeds up so rapidly only to be halted quickly that the flow is like a heartbeat monitor. The Spitfire with its slower pace maintains the pace much better, with the slow sections not seeming as slow and leading to an overall more enjoyable experience. For the X2010 it is turns and crashes that halt the flow, for Sonic it is enemies and traps you have to have pre-existing knowledge of to avoid. With the max speed goal, the slower and more diligent sections like the block rides in Marble Zone would be undoable since the contrast would be so sharp. The creative freedom is limited. If the Were-Hog sections were part of Sonic Adventure, they might have gone over better since they weren't such a massive contrast. Basically what I am saying is, Sega is limiting themselves greatly by trading the smooth flow of the originals for raw speed of the newer games.
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barren167

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#6 barren167
Member since 2011 • 2606 Posts

I command all Sonic fans to destroy this person above me.

Soniczero1993
Technically speaking, I'm a Sonic fan, and I refuse, granting permission to any other Sonic fans to likewise refuse.
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Soniczero1993

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#7 Soniczero1993
Member since 2005 • 35070 Posts

Ah, but you are hipster. Only hipster fans complain it should be more like the retro games, because the retro games had a lot of platforming.

So because you are a hipster fan and not a true fan, you are not entitled to any special treatment.

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sonicphc

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#8 sonicphc
Member since 2005 • 7779 Posts
@demo - I think the "trickier platforming" is a side effect. Aside from that stupid tornado section in generations, the platforming felt fine in the 2D sections. I don't mind the change to faster gameplay - fluid isn't really enough to stand out in the market today, you need a niche.
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barren167

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#9 barren167
Member since 2011 • 2606 Posts

Ah, but you are hipster. Only hipster fans complain it should be more like the retro games, because the retro games had a lot of platforming.

So because you are a hipster fan and not a true fan, you are not entitled to any special treatment.

Soniczero1993
Problem is, you're being subjective, not to mention assumptive. Strictly speaking, I'm not a fan of retro games, I'm a fan of good games. And solidly trial and error games are not good games, they're repetitive, monotonous games.
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Soniczero1993

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#10 Soniczero1993
Member since 2005 • 35070 Posts
[QUOTE="Soniczero1993"]

Ah, but you are hipster. Only hipster fans complain it should be more like the retro games, because the retro games had a lot of platforming.

So because you are a hipster fan and not a true fan, you are not entitled to any special treatment.

barren167

Problem is, you're being subjective, not to mention assumptive. Strictly speaking, I'm not a fan of retro games, I'm a fan of good games. And solidly trial and error games are not good games, they're repetitive, monotonous games.

Dark Souls would disagree with you.

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demoman_chaos

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#11 demoman_chaos
Member since 2006 • 13896 Posts
Dark Souls would disagree with you.Soniczero1993
I wouldn't call Dark Souls a T&E game, it is more WTFDID (What The Fook Do I Do). When played right, you have a legitimate chance of getting through almost all of it without dying on your first go. A T&E is like I Wanna Be The Guy where there are things that no one could know of that kill you (like one section where an apple from an apple tree falls upwards).
@demo - I think the "trickier platforming" is a side effect. Aside from that stupid tornado section in generations, the platforming felt fine in the 2D sections. I don't mind the change to faster gameplay - fluid isn't really enough to stand out in the market today, you need a niche.sonicphc
There is a difference between sense of speed and actual speed. Like with the GT5 example, you can get just as great of a sense of speed from the slower cars as you can the X2010. After going round the track at 270+ mph, the wow factor is gone and is just becomes bland. You can do more with a slower pace than a ridiculous one. You can make a slower pace feel faster than it really is. Those are my points.
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kbaily

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#12 kbaily
Member since 2007 • 13042 Posts

The key word is BALANCE.

Colors and Generations found a nice ying and yang between speed and platforming. Let's face it. our big complaint with Unleashed's day stages were their linearity and lack of branching paths, fast forward to Generations Rooftop run stage which went back and put in more platforming and multiple paths. This is what modern Sonic should be. Colors was good but some would argue it spent too much time in the 2D platforming.

It can be done but it has to be done right.

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Cloud_765

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#13 Cloud_765
Member since 2008 • 111411 Posts
I am quite pleased with their approach to the series. They seem to know what Sonic is best with and that's going to bring Sonic back as a solid franchise. I honestly can't complain. I like the whole idea of "introducing supporting characters slowly as if the series is starting all over again" type deal.
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Cloud_765

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#14 Cloud_765
Member since 2008 • 111411 Posts

The key word is BALANCE.

Colors and Generations found a nice ying and yang between speed and platforming. Let's face it. our big complaint with Unleashed's day stages were their linearity and lack of branching paths, fast forward to Generations Rooftop run stage which went back and put in more platforming and multiple paths. This is what modern Sonic should be. Colors was good but some would argue it spent too much time in the 2D platforming.

It can be done but it has to be done right.

kbaily
Actually, the HD version of Unleashed has plenty of branching paths, and to extent even the Wii version, but the Wii version there's no real point to take what won't get you to the goal the fastest and the HD versions you're going too fast to tell if there's a separate path you can go to, and if you can, it's usually more of a penalty.
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barren167

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#15 barren167
Member since 2011 • 2606 Posts
I like the whole idea of "introducing supporting characters slowly as if the series is starting all over again" type deal. Cloud_765
Though if Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing is anything to go by, their priority for returning characters is sort of lacking. :P
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sonicphc

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#16 sonicphc
Member since 2005 • 7779 Posts
[QUOTE="Cloud_765"]I like the whole idea of "introducing supporting characters slowly as if the series is starting all over again" type deal. barren167
Though if Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing is anything to go by, their priority for returning characters is sort of lacking. :P

Well, they had to make it not _all_ Sonic, but nobody knows most of Sega's other franchises.
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kbaily

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#17 kbaily
Member since 2007 • 13042 Posts

[QUOTE="barren167"][QUOTE="Cloud_765"]I like the whole idea of "introducing supporting characters slowly as if the series is starting all over again" type deal. sonicphc
Though if Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing is anything to go by, their priority for returning characters is sort of lacking. :P

Well, they had to make it not _all_ Sonic, but nobody knows most of Sega's other franchises.

But at the same time, bringing more obscure characters into a game like this might spark someone's interest in said game. Look at the Smash Bros. series. Back in the first game, no one knew who Ness was hell some people thought he was supposed to be Ash from Pokemon because he had a red hat and backpack and in Melee no one knew who Roy and Marth were but then it sparked people's interest in the Fire Emblem series and a few of the games got ported to the US and now with download services and all the collections Sega is releasing, it might bring in a new fan.

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sonicphc

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#18 sonicphc
Member since 2005 • 7779 Posts

[QUOTE="sonicphc"][QUOTE="barren167"][QUOTE="Cloud_765"]I like the whole idea of "introducing supporting characters slowly as if the series is starting all over again" type deal. kbaily

Though if Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing is anything to go by, their priority for returning characters is sort of lacking. :P

Well, they had to make it not _all_ Sonic, but nobody knows most of Sega's other franchises.

But at the same time, bringing more obscure characters into a game like this might spark someone's interest in said game. Look at the Smash Bros. series. Back in the first game, no one knew who Ness was hell some people thought he was supposed to be Ash from Pokemon because he had a red hat and backpack and in Melee no one knew who Roy and Marth were but then it sparked people's interest in the Fire Emblem series and a few of the games got ported to the US and now with download services and all the collections Sega is releasing, it might bring in a new fan.

There's a difference between "a few obscure" and "90% unknown." I feel like the only 'well known' Sega icons at this point, if you ignore Sonic characters, are the monkeys from Super Monkey Ball. Maybe the Taxi Cab from Crazy Taxi. I mean, I love Chu Chu Rocket! and all, but I'm pretty sure I got a "who is that" from all of my friends on every character, and in particular a "what the ***** are mice doing flying a rocket?"
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barren167

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#19 barren167
Member since 2011 • 2606 Posts
I knew most of them, the only characters I had to look up after they announced the full roster were the Bonanza Bros, the Clu Clu Rocket Mice, and Akura. And the zombies, but seriously, they were Japan-only characters. However:
[QUOTE="barren167"][QUOTE="Cloud_765"]I like the whole idea of "introducing supporting characters slowly as if the series is starting all over again" type deal. sonicphc
Though if Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing is anything to go by, their priority for returning characters is sort of lacking. :P

Well, they had to make it not _all_ Sonic, but nobody knows most of Sega's other franchises.

I meant Big the Cat.
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kbaily

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#20 kbaily
Member since 2007 • 13042 Posts
[QUOTE="kbaily"]

[QUOTE="sonicphc"][QUOTE="barren167"][QUOTE="Cloud_765"]I like the whole idea of "introducing supporting characters slowly as if the series is starting all over again" type deal. sonicphc

Though if Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing is anything to go by, their priority for returning characters is sort of lacking. :P

Well, they had to make it not _all_ Sonic, but nobody knows most of Sega's other franchises.

But at the same time, bringing more obscure characters into a game like this might spark someone's interest in said game. Look at the Smash Bros. series. Back in the first game, no one knew who Ness was hell some people thought he was supposed to be Ash from Pokemon because he had a red hat and backpack and in Melee no one knew who Roy and Marth were but then it sparked people's interest in the Fire Emblem series and a few of the games got ported to the US and now with download services and all the collections Sega is releasing, it might bring in a new fan.

There's a difference between "a few obscure" and "90% unknown." I feel like the only 'well known' Sega icons at this point, if you ignore Sonic characters, are the monkeys from Super Monkey Ball. Maybe the Taxi Cab from Crazy Taxi. I mean, I love Chu Chu Rocket! and all, but I'm pretty sure I got a "who is that" from all of my friends on every character, and in particular a "what the ***** are mice doing flying a rocket?"

Yeah I know, that's why Sega really needed to get a more Genesis era characters in their "All Stars" games. Like Gillius Thunderhead from Goldenaxe and Toejam and Earl which was one of the more valid complaints in reviews of Sonic and Sega All Star Racing was a lot of the more obscure Dreamcast era characters. I admire Sega for trying to establish a sort of roster of characters like Nintendo has and in fairness they have more going for them in terms of memorable characters than say Xbox who's "memorable" characters include mostly space marines. But in fairness to the casual person who catches a glimpse of Smash Bros. Most of the ones immediately recognizable are the Mario cast, Link (often referred to as Zelda grrr), Donkey Kong, and the Pokemon and sometimes Samus as "that robot from Metroid". You can do an interesting test on a Nintendo forum called "Essential Smash Bros." and see who has played what series. Everyone's played a Mario and Zelda game or 2, if they're younger they've played Pokemon and the rest of the represented series are hit or miss.

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sonicphc

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#21 sonicphc
Member since 2005 • 7779 Posts
I admire Sega for trying to establish a sort of roster of characters like Nintendo has and in fairness they have more going for them in terms of memorable characters than say Xbox who's "memorable" characters include mostly space marines.kbaily
Hey, now. The Xbox had... uh... Blinx the cat? I think? Something about time travel?