Tulsi Gabbard discussion thread - UPDATE - Politico reports her campaign manager leaves, putting campaign in danger

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#1  Edited By nintendoboy16
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Vox (ecerpt below)

When Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-HI) was first elected to Congress in 2012 amid an ocean of positive press, the Iraq War veteran seemed like a sure-thing for a 2020 presidential run. But after she announced her intent to run on Friday, Gabbard didn’t get the marquee treatment her early supporters would have predicted.

That’s because the one-time progressive star has alienated many of her early supporters over her conservative stances on Islam and foreign wars.

Gabbard initially excited the left because she was an outspoken economic progressive and a veteran who objected to American intervention abroad. She was also the first Hindu member of Congress. Nancy Pelosi called her an “emerging star”; MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow predicted that “she is on the fast track to being very famous.”

But in the following years, Gabbard staked out foreign policy positions that shocked her allies. She joined Republicans in demanding that Barack Obama use the term “radical Islam.” She was the member of Congress most willing to advocate for Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad. She dubbed herself a “hawk” on terrorism. Reporters documented worrying ties to anti-LGBTQ groups — including one run by her father — and anti-Muslim Hindu nationalists.

Gabbard has defenses of these positions, some more persuasive than others. She seems to have sincerely changed her mind on LGBTQ issues, defends her position on terrorism and as a necessary response to the serious threat from jihadism to the United States, and argues that her outreach to the Syrian government is part of an effort to open up space for a peaceful solution to the conflict.

In 2016, she backed Sen. Bernie Sanders’ (I-VT) insurgent campaign over Hillary Clinton’s. The move isolated her from her friends in the establishment, while getting her little traction with the party’s insurgent left, which remained skeptical of her foreign policy.

In 2020, Gabbard seems likely to run as an economic and social progressive, similar to Sanders on domestic policy in many respects. While she hasn’t yet made a formal announcement of her candidacy, her website from her 2018 reelection campaign boasts of her views on Wall Street reform and her support for health care for all Americans through either Medicare or a public option. She mentioned climate change and criminal justice reform as key issues in an interview with CNN.

But in the same interview, she made clear that she plans to center her distinctive foreign policy views, calling “war and peace” her “central” campaign issue.

It’s exactly those views that have put her nascent campaign in a tough place.

Experts, writers, and political figures on both sides of the Democratic Party’s internal divide have told me the result is that a politician once hailed as the future of the party has no natural constituency and few powerful allies. (Gabbard’s campaign did not respond to multiple requests for comment.) And if Sanders, a dove, runs again in 2020, it’s difficult to imagine his supporters defecting to Gabbard.

Oh boy, she might make the anti-SJW/anti-PC crowd happy because she has more in common with Trump than she lets on. Oh wait, she's not on the Trump train. Nevermind! Still, ain't backing her myself.

EDIT: From Politico

Tulsi Gabbard’s presidential campaign hasn’t officially launched yet but it’s already melting down.

Two-and-a-half weeks after the Hawaii Democrat told CNN she had decided to run for the White House—an announcement that even her own staff didn't know was coming, after weeks of debating the timing of the rollout—the 37-year-old congresswoman has struggled to contain the chaos.

Campaign manager Rania Batrice and Gabbard’s consulting firm Revolution Messaging are set to depart after this weekend’s official kickoff in Hawaii, two sources familiar with the situation told POLITICO. Gabbard is leaning on her sister, Vrindavan, to fill the void.

Meanwhile, the congresswoman is under fire back home after picking a fight with Sen. Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii), and a prominent Democratic state lawmaker is already challenging Gabbard in next year’s congressional primary. That means she faces the possibility of losing the presidential race and her House seat as well.

For years, Gabbard has been regarded as a rising star in the Democratic Party, and supporters hoped she could use a presidential bid to pressure party elites toward a non-interventionist foreign policy. But her early campaign stumbles and problems back home—where at times she’s had sky-high approval ratings—call into question whether the Hawaii lawmaker can compete on the national stage.

Batrice is an experienced campaign operative and served as deputy campaign manager for Sen. Bernie Sanders’ insurgent 2016 bid. But Gabbard‘s tumultuous rollout over the past several weeks suggested there is a disconnect between the candidate and her team.

Gabbard's campaign downplayed the departures, as did Batrice and Revolution Messaging.

“Rania Batrice is a longtime adviser and friend and remains so,” Erika Tsuji, a campaign spokeswoman, told POLITICO. She said Revolution Messaging was hired for only the campaign launch and "we appreciate the work they've done to that end.”

Batrice described Gabbard as a close friend and said "it’s been an honor to work with her over the last few years. I wish her all the best as she mounts her historic campaign.”

But the losses of Batrice and Revolution Messaging are certain to disrupt what is already an underdog candidacy beset by turmoil.

Three people familiar with the presidential bid over the past few months describe a candidate who managed to be both indecisive and impulsive. Just announcing her candidacy became a minisaga that exhausted and bewildered people involved.

At first, Gabbard had vendors and staffers working through Thanksgiving weekend to get ready for a campaign rollout, only to pull back. Over the next several weeks, Gabbard went up to the starting line again — signaling to her team that a green light was imminent — only to make repeated retreats.

The pattern of false starts continued through Christmas and New Year's, frustrating people who worked through the holidays.

When Gabbard did finally announce she would make a 2020 run, her team was blindsided. "I have decided to run and will be making a formal announcement within the next week," she told CNN on a Friday night in a pre-taped interview for “The Van Jones Show.”

The Gabbard campaign website was not ready to go live; social media posts weren’t ready to be sent out. And Gabbard hadn’t signed off on the launch video.

The surprise announcement left Gabbard's aides working frantically on a Friday night to get everything up online. Jones himself was surprised by her announcement and did not expect it to come on his show.

In the days after the announcement, the campaign appeared to be frozen. Gabbard’s Instagram page occasionally posted 2020 campaign-style videos as she traveled back and forth between Hawaii and Washington. But unlike other likely or declared candidates, Gabbard didn’t follow up her announcement with a trip to any of the early 2020 presidential primary states, a routine move for any federal officeholder thinking about running for president.

Gabbard did ultimately release a launch video on Jan. 24, 13 days after her CNN interview. The campaign plans to have a formal kickoff in Hawaii on Saturday.

Meanwhile, Gabbard has faced a backlash in Hawaii. Her public feud with Hirono infuriated other Democratic politicians and activists in the state. She spent a week apologizing for her past comments opposing gay marriage and work for an anti-gay group run by her father.

The Honolulu Star-Advertiser's editorial board weighed in against her candidacy. And state Sen. Kai Kahele, a fellow Democrat, recently declared his candidacy for Gabbard’s congressional seat. Days after he announced, the powerhouse liberal group Daily Kos, which directed millions of dollars to Democratic candidates in 2017 and 2018, endorsed Kahele.

The group called Gabbard “at odds with her party’s core beliefs” in a blistering statement criticizing her on abortion, guns and foreign policy.

Kahele painted his candidacy as a remedy to the neglect Gabbard’s district has felt under her tenure.

"My sense is the challenges that face the district are real," Kahele said in an interview. "I know that this bid for the presidency is going to take up a lot of her time. It's going to take up a lot of her energy."

The conflicts have robbed Gabbard’s long-shot campaign of any early momentum. Though she was one of the few members of Congress to back Sanders over Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential race, that endorsement has bought Gabbard little goodwill among Sanders supporters in Hawaii, said Tim Vandeveer, a former state party chairman who backed Sanders in 2016.

"I think that proximity doesn't translate to support," Vandeveer said. “I have yet to talk to a single Bernie Sanders supporter ... who is supporting Tulsi over Bernie."

Well, sounds like she just sent her campaign to Hell in a handbasket before it even started. Who has the better laugh? Homer or Stewie?

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BlackBalls

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#2 BlackBalls
Member since 2018 • 1496 Posts

I think she should be banned from the debate. She has no place in the Democratic party, someone like her would be better suited as Trump's running mate.

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#3 CreasianDevaili
Member since 2005 • 4429 Posts
@blackballs said:

I think she should be banned from the debate. She has no place in the Democratic party, someone like her would be better suited as Trump's running mate.

Getting a wee bit extreme aren't we?

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mrbojangles25

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#4 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58455 Posts

Haha she sounds like a plant from the conservatives, a spy. Especially in how she supported Bernie and, incidentally [or maybe not? hmmmmmmmmmmm...], sank Clinton's campaign.

In all seriousness, it's kind of nice to see this. Political parties are not a static thing, they have a certain amount of things they stand for and I don't think anyone is "100% democrat" or "100% republican". You can have socially progressive (relatively speaking) Republicans. You can have Democrats that are worried about religious fundamentalists.

While I do find her ties to certain anti-LGBTQ groups a bit worrisome, I welcome her to the competition. May the odds be ever in her favor!

Where the third parties at, btw? All we doing is talking about so and so.

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#5  Edited By mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23048 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:

Haha she sounds like a plant from the conservatives, a spy. Especially in how she supported Bernie and, incidentally [or maybe not? hmmmmmmmmmmm...], sank Clinton's campaign.

In all seriousness, it's kind of nice to see this. Political parties are not a static thing, they have a certain amount of things they stand for and I don't think anyone is "100% democrat" or "100% republican". You can have socially progressive (relatively speaking) Republicans. You can have Democrats that are worried about religious fundamentalists.

While I do find her ties to certain anti-LGBTQ groups a bit worrisome, I welcome her to the competition. May the odds be ever in her favor!

Where the third parties at, btw? All we doing is talking about so and so.

Third parties are typically irrelevant until their platforms gain enough traction to either be incorporated into the platform of one of the major parties (which is fairly common) or completely overtake one of the major parties (which is exceptionally rare).

I think the Libertarian and Green parties are still floating around, but both of their core platforms have been integrated into wings of the Republican and Democratic parties, respectively. Their primary purpose at this point is to push the major parties in the directions they want to go rather than outright win elections.

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deactivated-6068afec1b77d

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#6 deactivated-6068afec1b77d
Member since 2017 • 2539 Posts

@CreasianDevaili said:
@blackballs said:

I think she should be banned from the debate. She has no place in the Democratic party, someone like her would be better suited as Trump's running mate.

Getting a wee bit extreme aren't we?

lol yes

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nintendoboy16

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#7 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41570 Posts
@watercrack445 said:
@CreasianDevaili said:
@blackballs said:

I think she should be banned from the debate. She has no place in the Democratic party, someone like her would be better suited as Trump's running mate.

Getting a wee bit extreme aren't we?

lol yes

Maybe a little in fairness, but still, she should be lumped in with the likes of David Clarke, Michael Flynn, and Jared Kushner.

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Sevenizz

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#8 Sevenizz
Member since 2010 • 6462 Posts

Trump will be re-elected so who cares?

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#9 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41570 Posts
@Sevenizz said:

Trump will be re-elected so who cares?

Those who want better options for this next election?

And why am I not surprised a wannabe Alex Jones like Jimmy Dore is supporting a wannabe Trump like her?

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#10 LJS9502_basic
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@Sevenizz said:

Trump will be re-elected so who cares?

Keep telling yourself that................el oh el.

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#11 vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 3702 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:
@Sevenizz said:

Trump will be re-elected so who cares?

Keep telling yourself that................el oh el.

Maybe Democrats should decide on who they would even consider voting for before declaring Trump wont win.

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#12 Shmiity
Member since 2006 • 6625 Posts

Im wayyyy out on her. That's a big no from me, dog.

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#13  Edited By nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41570 Posts

You know she doesn't have much support on the left when WashEx is defending her. Who's next? Breitbart? Ben Shapiro? Murdoch?

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#14 Gaming-Planet
Member since 2008 • 21064 Posts

I back her because of her foreign policy. She will gut the BS war on terrorism that goes on forever.

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#15 nintendoboy16
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@Gaming-Planet said:

I back her because of her foreign policy. She will gut the BS war on terrorism that goes on forever.

For a woman with connections to Assad and Hindu nationalist kooks, BJP? Not what I call progressive.

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#16 Gaming-Planet
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@nintendoboy16 said:
@Gaming-Planet said:

I back her because of her foreign policy. She will gut the BS war on terrorism that goes on forever.

For a woman with connections to Assad and Hindu nationalist kooks, BJP? Not what I call progressive.

Assad did nothing wrong.

The west turned angry protesters into violent rebels by dropping crates of weapons. The same could happen in France if we were to drop guns.

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#17 nintendoboy16
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@Gaming-Planet said:

Assad did nothing wrong.

The west turned angry protesters into violent rebels by dropping crates of weapons. The same could happen in France if we were to drop guns.

Sure doesn't sound like nothing.

Do you also think none of these people did anything wrong too? Like...

-Vladimir Putin

-Benjamin Netanyahu

-Margaret Thatcher

-Theresa May

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#18 Gaming-Planet
Member since 2008 • 21064 Posts
@nintendoboy16 said:
@Gaming-Planet said:

Assad did nothing wrong.

The west turned angry protesters into violent rebels by dropping crates of weapons. The same could happen in France if we were to drop guns.

Sure doesn't sound like nothing.

Do you also think none of these people did anything wrong too? Like...

-Vladimir Putin

-Benjamin Netanyahu

-Margaret Thatcher

-Theresa May

Pot calling the kettle black. (USA: King of all war criminals)

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#19 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41570 Posts
@Gaming-Planet said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

Sure doesn't sound like nothing.

Do you also think none of these people did anything wrong too? Like...

-Vladimir Putin

-Benjamin Netanyahu

-Margaret Thatcher

-Theresa May

Pot calling the kettle black. (USA: King of all war criminals)

Deflection much? So, an American citizen has no right to call out atrocities like what Assad has done (as linked), atrocities like what Thatcher has done (example: Northern Ireland), and atrocities like what Putin has done, just because the US did something similar (which I don't doubt)?

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#20 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41570 Posts

Fellow Dems, Howard Dean and Mazie Hirono are against her. Same with progressive YouTubers Sam Seder and former TYT member, David Pakman.

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#21  Edited By KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

"Reporters documented worrying ties to anti-LGBTQ groups — including one run by her father — and anti-Muslim Hindu nationalists."

I would like to know more about that since the media lie so much about these topics. But if she has distanced herself from that, I don't really see anything damning about it. And most of the other things on there are things I could get behind. The article reads more like a kind of hit-piece, I don't know if that's typical of Vox. I'm most interested in each candidate's plans for health care, because that is the number one reason why I wouldn't want to live in the USA. Distribution of wealth or the amount of people living in poverty may be number two.

A short google search shows Vox likes to write hitpieces that are full of errors, with people even comparing them to The Verge. "PewDiePie’s ties to white supremacy spell serious trouble for the future of YouTube." Yes I'm sorry but it looks to me like they are used to making up stories with no care for the truth or the people they target, and doomsday scenario's to make a quick buck.

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#22 Blackhairedhero
Member since 2018 • 3231 Posts

A left wing canidate isn't left enough apparently. Lmao!

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#23  Edited By nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41570 Posts
@blackhairedhero said:

A left wing canidate isn't left enough apparently. Lmao!

Because she isn't left. Any stance she tries to do at being "progressive" ends up being just forced and desperate to hide her right-wing background (including her "support" for Bernie). It's no wonder MUCH of the left (much to the point of Trevor Noah and Stephen Colbert calling her out, and her cult not taking it well, much like Trump's cult) are like THIS to Tulsi...

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Just because they are in the Democratic Party, doesn't make them liberal. Hell, there are DINO's that kiss ass to Trump.

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#24 Sevenizz
Member since 2010 • 6462 Posts

You actually read Vox? Why?

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#25  Edited By KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

The moment she openly stated that she was not going to take lobbyist money the corporate democratics started to really come after her. "I've decided to stop accepting PAC/lobbyist $$." How many politicians would dare to say something like that? I don't follow American politics that well but I imagine that you can count them on one hand.

She is anti-establishment... She stepped down from the DNC 4 years before Trump got elected I believe? Yet she is accused of doing that in anticipation of Trump's victory to split the left votes? She was also one of the few in favor of letting the UN conduct their investigations before starting a war in Syria. Instead, the USA made that investigation impossible and trained and armed terrorist groups to fight with them. She had the guts to go to Syria personally to see what's up and not just trusting the mainstream media who turned out to be quite untrustworthy the past year, didn't they? But that painted her as some kind of Assad-follower? Much like Putin puppets because people wanted to hear what Putin had to say, too? That's sadistic. It's psychotic. To me this smear campaign is almost on a Flat Earther level of disrespect to the American intellect.

She is doing a lot of things right, imo, that I never see politicians do right. That's why she stands out to me. I wouldn't write her off based on some Vox hit piece. Especially after 2018. Having had personal experience with illegal wars, I would trust her 100x more with her hand on 'the button' than the usual candidate. She is one of the few who knows what war means.

I also don't think that being controversial is a negative. It depends maybe to whom you are being controversial. If it's controversial to Vox, Verge, Vice, or to extremist regressives on Resetera or neonazi's on red lace forums then that sounds like an amazing thing.

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#26 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41570 Posts
@KungfuKitten said:

The moment she openly stated that she was not going to take lobbyist money the corporate democratics started to really come after her. "I've decided to stop accepting PAC/lobbyist $$." How many politicians would dare to say something like that? I don't follow American politics that well but I imagine that you can count them on one hand.

She is anti-establishment... She stepped down from the DNC 4 years before Trump got elected I believe? Yet she is accused of doing that in anticipation of Trump's victory to split the left votes? She was also one of the few in favor of letting the UN conduct their investigations before starting a war in Syria. Instead, the USA made that investigation impossible and trained and armed terrorist groups to fight with them. She had the guts to go to Syria personally to see what's up and not just trusting the mainstream media who turned out to be quite untrustworthy the past year, didn't they? But that painted her as some kind of Assad-follower? Much like Putin puppets because people wanted to hear what Putin had to say, too? That's sadistic. It's psychotic. To me this smear campaign is almost on a Flat Earther level of disrespect to the American intellect.

She is doing a lot of things right, imo, that I never see politicians do right. That's why she stands out to me. I wouldn't write her off based on some Vox hit piece. Especially after 2018. Having had personal experience with illegal wars, I would trust her 100x more with her hand on 'the button' than the usual candidate. She is one of the few who knows what war means.

I also don't think that being controversial is a negative. It depends maybe to whom you are being controversial. If it's controversial to Vox, Verge, Vice, or to extremist regressives on Resetera or neonazi's on red lace forums then that sounds like an amazing thing.

It's not just the corporate Dems, again, she was the subject of ridicule jokes of the likes of current and ex-Daily Show comedians:

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And progressive podcasters like Sam Seder and David Pakman have also called her out.

I would back an anti-establishment Dem if they we're BETTER. The only one that ever had my support was Bernie. Besides that, Gabbard is a JOKE! She's anti-establishment by Donald Trump's definition. Has skeletons that should not be glossed over, such as an anti-LGBT past (say what you will about Obama and the Clintons past on the matter, but I don't recall them being part of hate groups prior to their change) and ties to Hindu nationalist crazies.

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#27  Edited By KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

@nintendoboy16: They are comedians. They are supposed to make fun of her. Few comedians can present an argument and be funny at the same time, and Tulsi isn't free of criticism or ridicule of course. And if you look at the comments they are full of people who understand that she has apologized multiple times for what she said and believed in when she was 23 years old. "Everyone can decide for themselves but I'd love to hear from those who have forgiven Obama, the Clintons & Joy Reid why this isn't enough." -Glenn Greenwald. The largest human rights group which focuses a lot on LGBTQ rights support her, the HRC. She has done things for the LGBT community since. Like supporting the repeal of DOMA (the Clintons) by signing for marriage equality. In fact from what I can find she has a 100% pro-LGBTQ voting record in congress, unlike most democrats... and didn't take as long as Hillary to be pro gay-marriage. She is Hindu. So she probably has ties to Hindu nationalist crazies, yes. And again, she doesn't take money anymore.

Look, I'm not a Trump-fan. The only thing I like about Trump is that he does what he said he would do (which in my country does not happen that often with a politician) but that's where my appreciation of Trump ends. He is pretty much considered an enemy in the eyes of my nation but even I can see the media went extremely far to discredit him at every opportunity. He farts, it's a news item about how he shouldn't have. I feel like Tulsi is being demonized a lot like Trump was, even though her policies and personality appear to me to be wildly different.

CNN is now insinuating that she is running for president because she wants to introduce laws that let her recoup a monetary investment of 15,000 dollars or less in cryptocurrency (man, who wouldn't run for presidency to do just that?)... It's just getting ridiculous, they're losing their minds trying to find ways to take a stab at her. The extremist left even willing to condemn a religion, Hinduism, if it means they can at least hurt her, but then turning around on the spot saying that Tulsi is against Islam for being against terrorists, because apparently Islam and terrorism is the same thing when it works against her. Yeah. To know a person through the enemies they keep, right?

I think the actual interviews with her say more about her than a comedy show or apparently mainstream media can.

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#28  Edited By nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41570 Posts

@KungfuKitten: Okay, you cite a Jimmy Dore video. JIMMY DORE! AKA, the Alex Jones of the left. In that, against the parents the parents wishes of the late Seth Rich, joined the SAME Alex Jones, alt-right figures like Milo, the recently arrested Roger Stone, and Fox News pundits like Sean Hannity on pushing conspiracies on how the Democratic Party ordered his assassination after his contacts with Wikileaks or something.

Besides that, not letting these tidbits go...

"They are comedians. They are supposed to make fun of her." Yeah and they quite often use comedy for their political opinions. Why else do you think those who have a "Cult of Personality" get snowflakey when their god-hero gets made fun of by the likes of them? Happening with Tulsi as it's happening with Trump or hell, even worse Bolsanaro and Duterte.

"And if you look at the comments they are full of people who understand that she has apologized multiple times for what she said and believed in when she was 23 years old." Okay... and? How do you know those apologies aren't just keeping up appearance as ANY standard politician would when a scandal pops up? Like Bill Clinton after he lied about his affair with Monica Lewinsky? Another thing, she was part of hate groups that was led by her own father, which leads to:

"Everyone can decide for themselves but I'd love to hear from those who have forgiven Obama, the Clintons & Joy Reid why this isn't enough." -Glenn Greenwald.

Again, she was part of actual hate groups against the LGBT. Obama and the Clintons never were. Her "evolution" to being "progressive" just seems fake because of it, and it's not the first time a politician or hell, an entire political party does it (And I'm not talking the Democratic party, or hell, a party from the US for that matter).

Sad that notable Tulsi supporters will overlook her skeletons just to own the "corporate Dems", Trump (even though she guarantees him another win like Howard Schultz will), and even fellow liberals playing the "owning liberals is more important than anything" card like alt-rightists (who praise the hell out of her) and anti-SJW's do. Yet, won't let that go if it was a Republican. Case in point, Cenk Ugyur of the Young Turks (founder of the Justice Democrats).

Cenk on a Republican with ties to terrorists against a key US ally:

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Cenk (and TYT) on a Democrat with Hindu nationalist ties and extreme anti-LGBT past:

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